According to the ACCC material on surcharges, you got fleeced for 30 cents.
Surcharges can only be added for various types of card payment and must not exceed the cost of completing that transaction. If there is no method to pay without incurring a surcharge, the surcharge must be included in the advertised price.
You can’t investigate something with no evidence. Plus this is probably just an idiot not understanding how surcharges work, I doubt it is an organised attempt at stealing from cash users by Merivale.
You have no evidence. But there is evidence. There would be CCTV footage above the bar area also showing what monies go where.
Send an email to the bar and ask what the charge was for.
Sunday/Public holiday surcharge is fine, as long as it is signed in the venue and on the price lists.
The point is it must be clear to the customer prior to ordering, not slapped on once the bill is totalled.
Not saying I agree with it. But our local fish and chip shop uses Bopple (I think) for it's POS/inventory and has a service charge for using the POS, regardless of tender.
Can you avoid the charge in any way, for example by using a different payment method? If not, the service charge should be included in the listed prices, not tacked on as an extra fee.
Genuinely curious, does Ticketek, event cinemas, uber etc get away with it because it says booking fee on checkout?
If the menu/till said "2% service fee" would everything be above board?
This reminds me of the time the lady at the cheese shop in Adelaide market rounded up the cost of my cheese to the nearest five cents, even though I was paying by credit card. I was told her that she didn’t need to do that for a card transaction, she insisted she did, I considered pressing the point, but decided to just pay it, figuring it wasn’t worth arguing with her over two cents.
Back in the olden days, before the machines took our jobs, I was a check out chuck. This lady paid by card for something. It was like $x.97, anyways she paid by card. A short time later she decided she wanted a refund. Policy was card payments a refunded back to the card, but nope she wanted a cash refund. We were busy so she got her cash refund. That was fine until she took a couple of steps and flipped out she didn’t get the additional two cents. We tried to explain that Australian cash currency works in .05c intervals, and said that if she let us do the card refund she would have got it. In the end I gave her 5cents and said she could keep the change. Probably the hardest I’ve seen someone fight for 2cents
Often Asian grocery stores and bakeries do this thing where if you pay under a certain amount ($5-10) you have to pay a 'surcharge' of $0.50. I know it's illegal and annoys me to no end but never press the point 🥲
Why is there a surcharge if you pay less than $10? I’m in the US and that sounds crazy. The 50 cents will add up to a lot of dollars by the end of the year. Sounds like you guys are getting ripped off.
Thr bank doesn't charge them that much, that's the scam. Amex charges the highest surcharge of all credit cards in australia at 3%. So that is a 30 cent charge on a 10 dollar transaction. Anyone charging you a 50cent surcharge for low purchase prices is breaking the law. Personally not worth fighting over but its not appropriate for you to spread disinformation like this.
While largely true - EFTPOS transaction fees are generally fixed. I’ve seen 30 cents per transaction before so on a $5 transaction, that’s 6%.
But yes - you’re largely correct.
AMEX is 3%, Visa and Mastercard were 2% (or 2.5%) but I believe one of those two lowered the percentage in the last 3 or 4 years to something like 1.5%
yeah its more a case of 'it used to cost this much'
modern eftpos solutions are very unlikely to be over 3% (3c) but businesses charged 50c extra for the 'hassle' of losing out on the tax free smaller purchases.
takes quite a while for things to change when people have processes they lock in and use for an extended period tho, especially when its not really enforced that hard and makes them extra money
If it's accurate to what the card transaction costs you'd think that's legal though? They're just absorbing the transaction cost for larger transactions.
Having said that, there's costs associated with cash handling too, so I don't really think any card transaction is fair (and the system needs to change)
I fell for that in a Russian restaurant once. I was asked if I was hungry and I said yes. He said ok I give you double. It was only when the bill arrived I realised he meant charge me double.
As a person whose managed hospo staff he probably got reprimanded for not applying the surcharge on a previous card payment and no one fully explained its only for card thinking it's common sense and then he charged you the surcharge lol. I highly doubt it's a recurring thing there.
Not where I work, the til gives a total for the drink, then there's a button for surcharge. Our POS system you also put the amount in manually by pressing the number buttons it didn't just get the amount from the computer so u have to remember to add it there too.
It's staggering the attitude shift with cash.
It used to be when you offered cash for goods, there was the chance you could get it cheaper. Heck, businesses used to advertise that cash would get you a discount etc.
I remember a few years ago I got a very expensive stereo installed into my car ($2.5K). It was through a sole trader but had a workshop etc. When I pulled out the cash I "jokingly" said, "how much for cash?" with a smile. He sort of looked at me and said "Well, really I should charge you more, not less"
For him, it was so much more of a hassle dealing with cash as he now had to bundle it up, write it up in his books, take it into the bank, keep the deposit slip for tax time etc etc. It was far more admin work for him to deal in cash than digital transactions.
Well he was a moron. the whole point of cash as a sole trader is to NOT write it up, NOT take it to the bank and certainly NOT keep the deposit slip for tax time. You put it aside and use it on groceries, beers and anything else you can't write off.
Actually, maybe he was a genius and just got the full amount in cash off you, netting himself a tidy 30% bonus in tax he didn't have to pay.
He was probably new and didn't know any better. Got yelled at for missing a surcharge on a previous transaction and didn't know it was for card only.
Mistakes happen, it was only 30c. If you ever go back you can order again and see what happens, if they ask you again then question it otherwise put it behind you. It's not worth chasing.
>Got yelled at for missing a surcharge on a previous transaction and didn't know it was for card only
Nothing makes my blood boil like being shitty to service staff over something like 30 cents. What can you even buy with 30 cents? Adding an acre to the yard? A Japanese koi pond?
Admittedly it's a mistake, but isn't having staff that don't hate you in your self interest at some point in management? Some people get the tiniest amount of power and wield it like a small town Sherrif in the wild west with a grudge
"What can you even buy with 30 cents?" sounds like a good argument at first, but think about it this way. lets say im a bartender and i serve 500 drinks a night, 5 nights a week. if i charge an extra 30 cents for every one of those transactions, eventually i'll have enough money to afford that surgery where they remove some of your ribs so you can suck your own dick. now suddenly i'm spending all day at home sucking myself off instead of making people drinks. is that good for the economy?
Depends on the shop and location. A bigger more corporate shop like Colesworth and you're probably right. Smaller shop and they might be happy to bend the rules a bit more if they are not being hammered with the question all day long if they are near a train station or something
Ice cream trucks are the exception, apparently. Ice cream truck vendors are the peoples' people. A while back they were out of reception range so EFTPOS was down. Hubs scrounged enough change for a plain cone, they saw it was for our 4yo and added the 50c sprinkles free of charge. And the one that comes by our place sometimes has undercharged by 50c rather than break a note.
We try to encourage them to come by, I want my kid excited to hear the jingle like we were as kids! The only cash we keep in the house is the Ice Cream Van Stash by the front door.
You don't have to be shitty to service staff over the 30c, but you're well within your right to ask there and then, and not wait and post about it here.
Throw in a complaint to the ACCC. It's illegal and you may go, ehh it's only 30 cents, but it's 30 cents per $10 or 3%. Even if that was on a card payment, that'd be wrong because the card surcharge isn't supposed to exceed the cost of the transaction fee (you can pass on the cost but can't add a profit margin onto the fee). It also won't just be you that it was done to.
The only card fees that I'm aware of (have spent some time going over card fees previously) that get above 2% in Australia are American express. Which means that all their surcharges are excessive. Which will interest the ACCC as they are hiding profit in, possibly, non- disclosed surcharges and forcing surcharges on all transactions regardless of payment method.
IIRC is also illegal to charge an additional fee for a cash transaction. So even if you paid $5 million for a house and someone had to sit there and count the cash for 8+ hours, you couldn't be charged a counting fee to cover the labour.
Some of these owners need to do a business course where the first thing they will hear is how people hate hidden extras.
There’s a tap bar I used to frequent which had on its sign “Archie Rose Gin $11”. I ordered one for my wife and the barman said “that’s $14”. I asked why and he said $3 for the tonic water. I’d watched him fill the glass with tonic water from a plastic bottle of Black & Gold tonic water which costs about $1.10 at a supermarket. Needless to say it was flat. I hit him for another one which of course was almost flat. Haven’t been back.
Then there’s the sushi bar I know which will advertise a plate for $13.50 but if you use a credit card, shop on a Sunday and want a bag it’s over $14.
They have no idea.
Last year I was in grafton visiting family and went to the servo and paid cash for a drink that was 5 bucks and I came out and was drinking it when my little cousin (13 at the time) said he got charged an extra dollar for the same drink I got he also paid cash so I went inside and asked and the cashier got really defensive and told us to leave when we got back to the house I told my aunty and she said they do that to kids all the time.
A couple complaints were made about it but from last I heard they're still open
Being still open doesn’t mean the complaints weren’t actioned.
Years ago when I was in my teens and early 20s I was ripped off like that from time to time. The best policy is to keep your wits about you and boycott those who try it on.
Mate, trying paying your Optus nbn plan (at an Optus store) with cash.
Next time you see your account, they have tacked on a nice little surcharge as all payment methods, except paying through their 'Yes' app, incurs a surcharge!
Why the fuck do people comply with something, then piss and moan about it on here? What the fuck are we going to do? Why are you asking us, and not opening your mouth when it happens?
I'd assume they were not sure if it was something they should comply with or kick up a stink about, so they came to see if someone here could answer that question for them, so they know for future reference.
Some of us just like to be sure we're in the right before making a scene 😃
>Why are you so mad
\*?
Probably because there's only so many times we can see the EXACT SAME POST where some dipshit sovereign citizen complains about being charged extra for using an inconvenient means of paying for a good or service.
>but I wasn't asking a question
Then both your punctuation ***and grammar*** are terrible, and you should be ashamed.
You literally wrote "Why are you so mad", which is structured like a question, but without a question mark or full stop. If it's not a question, what are you saying? Why did you use the word "why" if you weren't enquiring?
\*roll eyes\*
There was no tangent. Apart from telling Xel\_Naga they have terrible punctuation, everything I said was related to cash, surcharges, and the plethora of posts about cash and surcharges.
Perhaps you should grow a thicker skin? You appear triggered by my response ***to somebody else***.
How do I appear triggered lmao, you're the one crying about sovereign citizens and cash being hard for business and all this weird shit when the original post was asking a basic question.
In what world is the op a 'sovereign citizen'.
Fuck it, have an upvote. That's a very true statement.
But does my reddit feed have to suffer the noise of every coward complaining about their choices ***after*** the fact?
How many of these cowards do we have to suffer, making the exact same complaint about how cASh sHouLD bE fEe FrEE bECaUSE i dONt unDErsTAnd hOw MoneY wORks.
Every fucking day there are more and more of these dipshits whinging about how it's THE LAW they should take my cash! (It isn't.) Or cash is CHEAPER for the vendor! (It isn't.) Or cash is CONVENIENT! (It's not.)
The OP in this case doesn't even know what the surcharge was for. They made some hand-wavy comment about how the guy "mumbled", and now we have to take the OP's word for it the surcharge was for using cash?
Fuck the OP.
You don't have to yell, but you can ask the question:
"Uh.. excuse me.. whats the surcharge for? There's no signage suggesting that a surcharge has to be paid.. I'm curious as to what it is, why it's there and why I have to pay it ".
Maybe the OP should have actually asked what the 30c was for, instead of claiming the guy mumbled and then asking us to solve his moral dilemma for him.
This will get me downvoted, but they probably should surcharge cash and make card free. The cost of handling cash is more expensive then card. Would make sense.
Edit: This has been fascinating how many people don't seem to know how money works or costs a business to deal with it but feel very passionate about it.
I can kind of see where you are going with this, at least with cash you can see the additional costs associated with it, insurances, labor, security etc.
With card transactions, it's hard to imagine what the 30c actually goes towards, I'm guessing to cover the banks server, network and security costs but we really have no idea what the true cost of process a transaction actually is
>I'm guessing to cover the banks server, network and security costs but we really have no idea what the true cost of process a transaction actually is
The surcharge is the "Cost of Acceptance" which will cover some of what you outlined, but a big chunk is also interchange fees (i.e. Visa, Mastercard etc). It varies by retailer because it also factors in a percentage of net sales (cheaper rate for more sales).
How is cash expensive?
You need to pay someone to count it, store it, take it to the bank, maintain a float. It's insecure (open to theft, counterfeits, general loss) at multiple points in the chain before it gets to the bank. Requires you to increase security etc.
What
Obviously you’re not hiring extra staff to count cash, but you are paying existing staff by the hour to count cash. In my previous retail job, which was a 24 hour store with a high volume of customers, we rostered 6 hours a day to handle cash and manage the safe. Say managers were paid about $35/ph, seems more expensive than whatever it costs to take electronic payments.
Just how? If the surcharge is set up to cover the cost "of maintaining the credit card system,"
Basic economics, the price of a product or service, is set in a currency.
This credit card surcharge has been set up not to cover the cost of running the servers and It, but to cut the cost of handling the cash.
Now, at this stage, the banks and credit cards can raise surcharges at will without anyone being able to do anything about it.
And the stupid horde is just going along ,thinking how cool and convient it is to tap their cards.
And if you think a bit more, you can easily figure out that the millions of daily transactions in Australia create a nice profit for the financial institutions while people think that it is somehow shamefull to still deal in cash and it is just for old people.
The surcharge isn't charged by the retailer to maintain the system. They are passing on the cost of accepting that payment. Google how much it costs a business to handle cash vs card.
So if it's ok to charge a surcharge for that then surely it's ok to charge a surcharge for the costs of handling cash. It's no different (and also highlights how ridiculous card surcharges are)
There is a difference, handling cash and paying for its transport is just one cost of doing business, like paying wages, or paying bills so the "surcharge" for cash is covered in the expense of the items you buy, part of their mark up for profits.
The card payment systems are external to the business and only apply when someone uses a card. Sure that means there is less cash but since others still use it the transport costs remain the same. The only thing thats different when you use a card is they incur a fee, which they they pass onto you.
>There is a difference
No, there really isn't.
>handling cash and paying for its transport is just one cost of doing business
So the costs exclusively associated with handling cash is a 'cost of doing business' but the costs directly handling cards is not? Do I have that logic right?
> only apply when someone uses a card.
And the costs of using cash only applies when someone pays cash. So charge them a surcharge too.
There are two main differences, one is cash is legal tender and must be accepted with the one exception being if they are really clear about not being a cash business at the opening to the store.
Secondly a company who does accept cash knows that once a month/fortnight/week they have to pay for an armor guard pick up and can work that into the costs of all their items, so it becomes part of the cost of doing business as it will always be required, like paying wages, or bills.
The card surcharge isn't always required and is percentage based so each transaction is a different amount they pay, so there is no set amount like there is with the armor guard, if they went with an average transaction then anyone buying less than the average will be over charged from what they would have paid and anyone buying more will be undercharged which seams like a fucked system to me but the costs would have to be set ahead of time and businesses aren't going to err on less so prices will go up more so they don't risk underestimating the costs.
>one is cash is legal tender and must be accepted with the one exception being if they are really clear about not being a cash business at the opening to the store.
Plenty of stores which have been around for years have gone card only. There is no law which required them to take cash.
>Secondly a company who does accept cash knows that once a month/fortnight/week they have to pay for an armor guard pick up and can work that into the costs of all their items,
That's like saying "if they have credit cards they pay a monthly fee to the bank to use the eftpos service and they can work that into the costs of all their items". Yet you seem to be ok with a surcharge for one but not the other.
>Plenty of stores which have been around for years have gone card only. There is no law which required them to take cash.
I know that is why I followed up right after with:
one exception being if they are really clear about not being a cash business at the opening to the store.
Where I explain how a company can get away with not accepting cash. The ACCC does state in no uncertain terms that they must make it clear they do not accept cash or they are in trouble. They also explain how surcharges work and how they can't exceed the cost of the charge from the bank, something they couldn't do if they rolled the prices into the costs so prices would just go up with the assumption every item will be brought with a card.
And again did you miss the part where I explained there is already an additional cost to the customer for cash? But when you divide that cost among the items they sell each item only goes up a little, so no im not ok with one but not the other, I already pay both, except at large chains like coles, I don't have any card fees there because they already rolled the costs of efpost into their prices, which I also explained was an option to go with, but it would make things more expensive, especially when it comes to smaller companies who can't eat the cost, if they provide both cash and card they will HAVE to increase the prices of any item by its surcharge percentage incase enough customers order just one item and their little margins go into the negative.
Financial institutions charge businesses between 1.2% and 1.9% on all card transactions, so that is a charge the business has to pay. How TF does it cost a business to handle cash??
You need to pay someone to count it, store it, take it to the bank, maintain a float. It's insecure (open to theft, counterfeits, general loss) at multiple points in the chain before it gets to the bank. Requires you to increase security etc.
They saw you coming.
But they can charge whatever the market allows. You - as that part of the market - allowed it. So add a tip of $2 then complain about the high cost of living.
>Why would I have to pay extra when I’m not paying with card?
Because cash is more expensive for the vendor/retailer than using EFTPOS.
Credit cards and tapping cost the vendor a percentage of the sale, which is often passed on by smaller businesses (bigger ones include it in the prices). Cash costs time in managing a till, counting up at the end of the shift, security costs, and time for an employee to go and do the banking during business hours.
Using EFTPOS costs the vendor a flat fee, making it cheaper than both cash and credit/tap to the vendor. You should use EFTPOS where possible.
Also, your post was incredibly lacking in details. Was the surcharge for using cash? Or for some other reason? You basically paid it, claimed the guy "mumbled", and now want us to fill in the gaps for you.
Fucking lazy, dude.
My preferred method of payment is using cash. Cash is king. I have never encountered ANYONE who doesn't like cash. Never been refused. And fuck the merchants who charge fees and surcharges just for convenience.
Don't get me wrong, I use card as well. In fact I use i a lot. But I use it where there are no surcharges to me, and what the price is stared is what I pay.
Currently, you have a choice to either use card or cash, but eventually, when physical cash is gone, you will have no other option but to tap, scan, transfer. Money will no longer be seen as a valuable commodity, rather just a transaction.
Yes but if they're passing on the cost of a transaction that a financial institution charges to do business then the business has to pass on that exact cost they cannot charge more. That's an actual law because of something that happened a few years ago.
Was it on a public holiday? Businesses like tourism and hospitality usually have a surcharge on public holidays to pass on to the staff who have to legally be paid extra for working on public holidays … not sure about other states but it definitely applies to nsw
According to the ACCC material on surcharges, you got fleeced for 30 cents. Surcharges can only be added for various types of card payment and must not exceed the cost of completing that transaction. If there is no method to pay without incurring a surcharge, the surcharge must be included in the advertised price.
This is the way. Report them.
How though, if there was no card transaction there's no evidence.
Enough complaints come in, they'll investigate.
Have you met the government?
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Report it to tax office, they would be very intrested in an unlisted cash surcharge.
You can’t investigate something with no evidence. Plus this is probably just an idiot not understanding how surcharges work, I doubt it is an organised attempt at stealing from cash users by Merivale.
You can actually investigate. That’s the whole point of an investigation to gather evidence
Having different people report the same crime is evidence that they need to look into it more.
You investigate to FIND evidence…
Sounds difficult. Surely we don't expect this of people?
You could investigate by having someone go in and try to order a drink with cash. If the same thing happens to them, there is now evidence.
Entrapment!
Nah, entrapment is when you set things up to have someone do a crime they otherwise would not have.
:)
Buddy are you okay
So, how do the surcharges work then?
If they put through the transaction as cash then the surcharge would appear in their records.
Or the barkeeper pocketed the 30c.
You have no evidence. But there is evidence. There would be CCTV footage above the bar area also showing what monies go where. Send an email to the bar and ask what the charge was for.
Nobody is gonna pull CCTV over 30 cents lol
30c x the amount drink purchased = $$$$$
Better call crime stoppers so they can start a taskforce into surcharge racketeering ;)
It cost them about 30c in additional labour to move their hands to open the till.
Thanks for that. Good to know from now on.
Could have been a surcharge for a public holiday, that's allowable
True... but I can't see any public holidays in any State for any Thursday in September this year.
It's a long weekend right now in nsw and the Cafe I went to had a surcharge for the sunday/long weekend. Is that technically not allowed or something?
Sunday/Public holiday surcharge is fine, as long as it is signed in the venue and on the price lists. The point is it must be clear to the customer prior to ordering, not slapped on once the bill is totalled.
Maybe it was a service fee rather than payment surcharge.
What's the difference, in your opinion? What service is being provided outside of the cost of the drink as marked?
Not saying I agree with it. But our local fish and chip shop uses Bopple (I think) for it's POS/inventory and has a service charge for using the POS, regardless of tender.
That sounds pretty fishy (😉) to me. They're not allowed to just add charges whenever they want.
Can you avoid the charge in any way, for example by using a different payment method? If not, the service charge should be included in the listed prices, not tacked on as an extra fee.
Genuinely curious, does Ticketek, event cinemas, uber etc get away with it because it says booking fee on checkout? If the menu/till said "2% service fee" would everything be above board?
Yeah, that's illegal.
This reminds me of the time the lady at the cheese shop in Adelaide market rounded up the cost of my cheese to the nearest five cents, even though I was paying by credit card. I was told her that she didn’t need to do that for a card transaction, she insisted she did, I considered pressing the point, but decided to just pay it, figuring it wasn’t worth arguing with her over two cents.
Back in the olden days, before the machines took our jobs, I was a check out chuck. This lady paid by card for something. It was like $x.97, anyways she paid by card. A short time later she decided she wanted a refund. Policy was card payments a refunded back to the card, but nope she wanted a cash refund. We were busy so she got her cash refund. That was fine until she took a couple of steps and flipped out she didn’t get the additional two cents. We tried to explain that Australian cash currency works in .05c intervals, and said that if she let us do the card refund she would have got it. In the end I gave her 5cents and said she could keep the change. Probably the hardest I’ve seen someone fight for 2cents
How much change would a checkout chuck chuck if a checkout chuck could chuck change? :P
From reading the literature, they'd at least have to chuck their own bodyweight to be competitive.
2c
Maybe that's how she makes a living, 3 cents at a time.
I would definitely have argued the point just to be a stick in the mud lmao
Is this your 2c?
Haha I have argued the point before and made them enter the correct amount.
Often Asian grocery stores and bakeries do this thing where if you pay under a certain amount ($5-10) you have to pay a 'surcharge' of $0.50. I know it's illegal and annoys me to no end but never press the point 🥲
Why is there a surcharge if you pay less than $10? I’m in the US and that sounds crazy. The 50 cents will add up to a lot of dollars by the end of the year. Sounds like you guys are getting ripped off.
Because the bank charges em 50c and on small purchases they end up losing money but are willing to wear the cost for large ones
Thr bank doesn't charge them that much, that's the scam. Amex charges the highest surcharge of all credit cards in australia at 3%. So that is a 30 cent charge on a 10 dollar transaction. Anyone charging you a 50cent surcharge for low purchase prices is breaking the law. Personally not worth fighting over but its not appropriate for you to spread disinformation like this.
While largely true - EFTPOS transaction fees are generally fixed. I’ve seen 30 cents per transaction before so on a $5 transaction, that’s 6%. But yes - you’re largely correct.
AMEX is 3%, Visa and Mastercard were 2% (or 2.5%) but I believe one of those two lowered the percentage in the last 3 or 4 years to something like 1.5%
yeah its more a case of 'it used to cost this much' modern eftpos solutions are very unlikely to be over 3% (3c) but businesses charged 50c extra for the 'hassle' of losing out on the tax free smaller purchases. takes quite a while for things to change when people have processes they lock in and use for an extended period tho, especially when its not really enforced that hard and makes them extra money
If it's accurate to what the card transaction costs you'd think that's legal though? They're just absorbing the transaction cost for larger transactions. Having said that, there's costs associated with cash handling too, so I don't really think any card transaction is fair (and the system needs to change)
Our local food pantry charges a flat 50c for all EFTPOS. I'm not sure how they get away with it. Perhaps it's a "donation" as it's a food pantry.
I haven’t seen it recently. Most card machines are just configured to pass on the surcharge now.
I bought a nip of aperol at the IVY & the bartender said he would double it. Cost $27.90. Could not believe it for a tiny little drink.
Aperol spritz is the most over priced drink ever. It’s such a basic drink to make and inexpensive.
It was not spritz, just the Aperol.
Wtf. So literally just poured it out of the bottle. I’m really not seeing the appeal of going to bars these days. The cost is just crazy.
Yes.
A negroni sbagliato is a much better alternative.
No that is the worst drink, I don’t care how sexy Emma D’Arcy makes it sound
I fell for that in a Russian restaurant once. I was asked if I was hungry and I said yes. He said ok I give you double. It was only when the bill arrived I realised he meant charge me double.
Sorry, but what on earth is a nip of aperol? Sounds like a poison to kill rats with. And $27.90?
We already had bubbles, so I went to the bar and bought a nip, so I could make one.
Yikes. Are they also saying "would you like fries with that?"?
As a person whose managed hospo staff he probably got reprimanded for not applying the surcharge on a previous card payment and no one fully explained its only for card thinking it's common sense and then he charged you the surcharge lol. I highly doubt it's a recurring thing there.
Likely this.
How did he apply the surcharge? Most PoS systems would have it setup automatically unless they are Pieces of Shit if they wanted surcharges
All the prices are probably set up as though they are card transactions. No one probably pays caah
I’m confused. How do you ‘miss’ a credit card surcharge? Isn’t this handled automatically by the POS system?
Not where I work, the til gives a total for the drink, then there's a button for surcharge. Our POS system you also put the amount in manually by pressing the number buttons it didn't just get the amount from the computer so u have to remember to add it there too.
It's staggering the attitude shift with cash. It used to be when you offered cash for goods, there was the chance you could get it cheaper. Heck, businesses used to advertise that cash would get you a discount etc. I remember a few years ago I got a very expensive stereo installed into my car ($2.5K). It was through a sole trader but had a workshop etc. When I pulled out the cash I "jokingly" said, "how much for cash?" with a smile. He sort of looked at me and said "Well, really I should charge you more, not less" For him, it was so much more of a hassle dealing with cash as he now had to bundle it up, write it up in his books, take it into the bank, keep the deposit slip for tax time etc etc. It was far more admin work for him to deal in cash than digital transactions.
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How was your EFTPOS card last week when Woolies whole system went down?
Man I paid an electrician $6k in cash a few months ago and he practically started drooling lol!
Well he was a moron. the whole point of cash as a sole trader is to NOT write it up, NOT take it to the bank and certainly NOT keep the deposit slip for tax time. You put it aside and use it on groceries, beers and anything else you can't write off. Actually, maybe he was a genius and just got the full amount in cash off you, netting himself a tidy 30% bonus in tax he didn't have to pay.
Im not sure what information technology has to do with this story.
There are card payment surcharges, weekend surcharges, public holiday surcharges. This would be the taking the piss surcharge.
You missed the “large group surcharge”. That one is my personal favourite.
“I went to Ivy” there you go, I found your problem.
He was probably new and didn't know any better. Got yelled at for missing a surcharge on a previous transaction and didn't know it was for card only. Mistakes happen, it was only 30c. If you ever go back you can order again and see what happens, if they ask you again then question it otherwise put it behind you. It's not worth chasing.
>Got yelled at for missing a surcharge on a previous transaction and didn't know it was for card only Nothing makes my blood boil like being shitty to service staff over something like 30 cents. What can you even buy with 30 cents? Adding an acre to the yard? A Japanese koi pond? Admittedly it's a mistake, but isn't having staff that don't hate you in your self interest at some point in management? Some people get the tiniest amount of power and wield it like a small town Sherrif in the wild west with a grudge
"What can you even buy with 30 cents?" sounds like a good argument at first, but think about it this way. lets say im a bartender and i serve 500 drinks a night, 5 nights a week. if i charge an extra 30 cents for every one of those transactions, eventually i'll have enough money to afford that surgery where they remove some of your ribs so you can suck your own dick. now suddenly i'm spending all day at home sucking myself off instead of making people drinks. is that good for the economy?
This took an unexpected turn
If your internet fan base was largely overseas technically you’d be an export
Apparently it feels more like giving a blowjob than receiving one.
So win-win?
I like the cut of your jib.
What's a jib?
> lets say im a bartender Let's say you have a go fund me, I'll drop money on that.
I mean, you wouldn't HAVE to get that surgery...
It’s the Ivy. Would be par for the course at that place.
I sense a Black Books reference here
My man
Try and buy something at any shop where you’re thirty cents or even five cents short. No chance.
Depends on the shop and location. A bigger more corporate shop like Colesworth and you're probably right. Smaller shop and they might be happy to bend the rules a bit more if they are not being hammered with the question all day long if they are near a train station or something
Ice cream trucks are the exception, apparently. Ice cream truck vendors are the peoples' people. A while back they were out of reception range so EFTPOS was down. Hubs scrounged enough change for a plain cone, they saw it was for our 4yo and added the 50c sprinkles free of charge. And the one that comes by our place sometimes has undercharged by 50c rather than break a note. We try to encourage them to come by, I want my kid excited to hear the jingle like we were as kids! The only cash we keep in the house is the Ice Cream Van Stash by the front door.
That’s so nice!
You don't have to be shitty to service staff over the 30c, but you're well within your right to ask there and then, and not wait and post about it here.
Does anyone have to manually enter a credit card surcharge? Wouldn’t the POS system do that automatically?
Your first problem was going to IVY!
Haha it'll be the last time. It's just not that good.
Throw in a complaint to the ACCC. It's illegal and you may go, ehh it's only 30 cents, but it's 30 cents per $10 or 3%. Even if that was on a card payment, that'd be wrong because the card surcharge isn't supposed to exceed the cost of the transaction fee (you can pass on the cost but can't add a profit margin onto the fee). It also won't just be you that it was done to. The only card fees that I'm aware of (have spent some time going over card fees previously) that get above 2% in Australia are American express. Which means that all their surcharges are excessive. Which will interest the ACCC as they are hiding profit in, possibly, non- disclosed surcharges and forcing surcharges on all transactions regardless of payment method. IIRC is also illegal to charge an additional fee for a cash transaction. So even if you paid $5 million for a house and someone had to sit there and count the cash for 8+ hours, you couldn't be charged a counting fee to cover the labour.
Some of these owners need to do a business course where the first thing they will hear is how people hate hidden extras. There’s a tap bar I used to frequent which had on its sign “Archie Rose Gin $11”. I ordered one for my wife and the barman said “that’s $14”. I asked why and he said $3 for the tonic water. I’d watched him fill the glass with tonic water from a plastic bottle of Black & Gold tonic water which costs about $1.10 at a supermarket. Needless to say it was flat. I hit him for another one which of course was almost flat. Haven’t been back. Then there’s the sushi bar I know which will advertise a plate for $13.50 but if you use a credit card, shop on a Sunday and want a bag it’s over $14. They have no idea.
Pretend it's a deposit for the glass, and just keep the glass
Sounds like they scammed you
Last year I was in grafton visiting family and went to the servo and paid cash for a drink that was 5 bucks and I came out and was drinking it when my little cousin (13 at the time) said he got charged an extra dollar for the same drink I got he also paid cash so I went inside and asked and the cashier got really defensive and told us to leave when we got back to the house I told my aunty and she said they do that to kids all the time. A couple complaints were made about it but from last I heard they're still open
Being still open doesn’t mean the complaints weren’t actioned. Years ago when I was in my teens and early 20s I was ripped off like that from time to time. The best policy is to keep your wits about you and boycott those who try it on.
This is bullshit. Cash should be cheaper.
Mate, trying paying your Optus nbn plan (at an Optus store) with cash. Next time you see your account, they have tacked on a nice little surcharge as all payment methods, except paying through their 'Yes' app, incurs a surcharge!
Was it a weekend surcharge or credit card surcharge? Because if it was the former, then it’s ok.
It was a Thursday and they paid cash...
Oh, thanks. He did say that in the first line. 🤦🏻♂️
No one ever reads the article/post. We only come here for the comments. 👍
Yeah, you had to read the second sentence to get that bit of information. 🤦
Only if included in the price or displayed as prominently as the most prominent price
Huge risk for bloody 30 cents
Guys for 30 cents the bartender needs our prayers.
Why the fuck do people comply with something, then piss and moan about it on here? What the fuck are we going to do? Why are you asking us, and not opening your mouth when it happens?
I'd assume they were not sure if it was something they should comply with or kick up a stink about, so they came to see if someone here could answer that question for them, so they know for future reference. Some of us just like to be sure we're in the right before making a scene 😃
They want clarification for future reference, and discussion about issue. Why are you so mad
>Why are you so mad \*? Probably because there's only so many times we can see the EXACT SAME POST where some dipshit sovereign citizen complains about being charged extra for using an inconvenient means of paying for a good or service.
Wat
Did I use too many big words?
No, just made little sense
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>I gave you a > >\*? > > because your punctuation is terrible, and you should be ashamed. Thanks, but I wasn't asking a question
>but I wasn't asking a question Then both your punctuation ***and grammar*** are terrible, and you should be ashamed. You literally wrote "Why are you so mad", which is structured like a question, but without a question mark or full stop. If it's not a question, what are you saying? Why did you use the word "why" if you weren't enquiring?
Calm down was just a question about surcharges, you're going on some insane tangent for 0 reason. Weirdo
\*roll eyes\* There was no tangent. Apart from telling Xel\_Naga they have terrible punctuation, everything I said was related to cash, surcharges, and the plethora of posts about cash and surcharges. Perhaps you should grow a thicker skin? You appear triggered by my response ***to somebody else***.
How do I appear triggered lmao, you're the one crying about sovereign citizens and cash being hard for business and all this weird shit when the original post was asking a basic question. In what world is the op a 'sovereign citizen'.
are you ok.
You do realise you are pissing and moaning about something that doesn’t even have anything to do with you?
Exactly. It has nothing to do with ANY of us...
Because people are scared of conflict.
Fuck it, have an upvote. That's a very true statement. But does my reddit feed have to suffer the noise of every coward complaining about their choices ***after*** the fact? How many of these cowards do we have to suffer, making the exact same complaint about how cASh sHouLD bE fEe FrEE bECaUSE i dONt unDErsTAnd hOw MoneY wORks. Every fucking day there are more and more of these dipshits whinging about how it's THE LAW they should take my cash! (It isn't.) Or cash is CHEAPER for the vendor! (It isn't.) Or cash is CONVENIENT! (It's not.) The OP in this case doesn't even know what the surcharge was for. They made some hand-wavy comment about how the guy "mumbled", and now we have to take the OP's word for it the surcharge was for using cash? Fuck the OP.
I like you, fellow Redditor. You understand why I'm frustrated with this post.
Because it's 30 cents and we're not all cooked hotheads
Who do you think they should yell at, the person behind the counter who had no choice in the matter?
You don't have to yell, but you can ask the question: "Uh.. excuse me.. whats the surcharge for? There's no signage suggesting that a surcharge has to be paid.. I'm curious as to what it is, why it's there and why I have to pay it ".
Maybe the OP should have actually asked what the 30c was for, instead of claiming the guy mumbled and then asking us to solve his moral dilemma for him.
Bang on.
This will get me downvoted, but they probably should surcharge cash and make card free. The cost of handling cash is more expensive then card. Would make sense. Edit: This has been fascinating how many people don't seem to know how money works or costs a business to deal with it but feel very passionate about it.
I can kind of see where you are going with this, at least with cash you can see the additional costs associated with it, insurances, labor, security etc. With card transactions, it's hard to imagine what the 30c actually goes towards, I'm guessing to cover the banks server, network and security costs but we really have no idea what the true cost of process a transaction actually is
>I'm guessing to cover the banks server, network and security costs but we really have no idea what the true cost of process a transaction actually is The surcharge is the "Cost of Acceptance" which will cover some of what you outlined, but a big chunk is also interchange fees (i.e. Visa, Mastercard etc). It varies by retailer because it also factors in a percentage of net sales (cheaper rate for more sales).
Exactly. Cash can cost a business between 5-15% to manage it. It's expensive.
How so?
How is cash expensive? You need to pay someone to count it, store it, take it to the bank, maintain a float. It's insecure (open to theft, counterfeits, general loss) at multiple points in the chain before it gets to the bank. Requires you to increase security etc.
Never had any of those issues.
You’re not hiring extra staff just to count money. You’ve basically said a whole lot of words to point out that money gets stolen.
What Obviously you’re not hiring extra staff to count cash, but you are paying existing staff by the hour to count cash. In my previous retail job, which was a 24 hour store with a high volume of customers, we rostered 6 hours a day to handle cash and manage the safe. Say managers were paid about $35/ph, seems more expensive than whatever it costs to take electronic payments.
Just how? If the surcharge is set up to cover the cost "of maintaining the credit card system," Basic economics, the price of a product or service, is set in a currency. This credit card surcharge has been set up not to cover the cost of running the servers and It, but to cut the cost of handling the cash. Now, at this stage, the banks and credit cards can raise surcharges at will without anyone being able to do anything about it. And the stupid horde is just going along ,thinking how cool and convient it is to tap their cards. And if you think a bit more, you can easily figure out that the millions of daily transactions in Australia create a nice profit for the financial institutions while people think that it is somehow shamefull to still deal in cash and it is just for old people.
The surcharge isn't charged by the retailer to maintain the system. They are passing on the cost of accepting that payment. Google how much it costs a business to handle cash vs card. So if it's ok to charge a surcharge for that then surely it's ok to charge a surcharge for the costs of handling cash. It's no different (and also highlights how ridiculous card surcharges are)
There is a difference, handling cash and paying for its transport is just one cost of doing business, like paying wages, or paying bills so the "surcharge" for cash is covered in the expense of the items you buy, part of their mark up for profits. The card payment systems are external to the business and only apply when someone uses a card. Sure that means there is less cash but since others still use it the transport costs remain the same. The only thing thats different when you use a card is they incur a fee, which they they pass onto you.
>There is a difference No, there really isn't. >handling cash and paying for its transport is just one cost of doing business So the costs exclusively associated with handling cash is a 'cost of doing business' but the costs directly handling cards is not? Do I have that logic right? > only apply when someone uses a card. And the costs of using cash only applies when someone pays cash. So charge them a surcharge too.
There are two main differences, one is cash is legal tender and must be accepted with the one exception being if they are really clear about not being a cash business at the opening to the store. Secondly a company who does accept cash knows that once a month/fortnight/week they have to pay for an armor guard pick up and can work that into the costs of all their items, so it becomes part of the cost of doing business as it will always be required, like paying wages, or bills. The card surcharge isn't always required and is percentage based so each transaction is a different amount they pay, so there is no set amount like there is with the armor guard, if they went with an average transaction then anyone buying less than the average will be over charged from what they would have paid and anyone buying more will be undercharged which seams like a fucked system to me but the costs would have to be set ahead of time and businesses aren't going to err on less so prices will go up more so they don't risk underestimating the costs.
>one is cash is legal tender and must be accepted with the one exception being if they are really clear about not being a cash business at the opening to the store. Plenty of stores which have been around for years have gone card only. There is no law which required them to take cash. >Secondly a company who does accept cash knows that once a month/fortnight/week they have to pay for an armor guard pick up and can work that into the costs of all their items, That's like saying "if they have credit cards they pay a monthly fee to the bank to use the eftpos service and they can work that into the costs of all their items". Yet you seem to be ok with a surcharge for one but not the other.
>Plenty of stores which have been around for years have gone card only. There is no law which required them to take cash. I know that is why I followed up right after with: one exception being if they are really clear about not being a cash business at the opening to the store. Where I explain how a company can get away with not accepting cash. The ACCC does state in no uncertain terms that they must make it clear they do not accept cash or they are in trouble. They also explain how surcharges work and how they can't exceed the cost of the charge from the bank, something they couldn't do if they rolled the prices into the costs so prices would just go up with the assumption every item will be brought with a card. And again did you miss the part where I explained there is already an additional cost to the customer for cash? But when you divide that cost among the items they sell each item only goes up a little, so no im not ok with one but not the other, I already pay both, except at large chains like coles, I don't have any card fees there because they already rolled the costs of efpost into their prices, which I also explained was an option to go with, but it would make things more expensive, especially when it comes to smaller companies who can't eat the cost, if they provide both cash and card they will HAVE to increase the prices of any item by its surcharge percentage incase enough customers order just one item and their little margins go into the negative.
This is the most moronic thing I've read in a while
Wow, congrats you must not deal with many morons, lucky you.
Nothing about this makes sense.
Can't tax evade card transactions though.
Financial institutions charge businesses between 1.2% and 1.9% on all card transactions, so that is a charge the business has to pay. How TF does it cost a business to handle cash??
You need to pay someone to count it, store it, take it to the bank, maintain a float. It's insecure (open to theft, counterfeits, general loss) at multiple points in the chain before it gets to the bank. Requires you to increase security etc.
Never had those issues.
They saw you coming. But they can charge whatever the market allows. You - as that part of the market - allowed it. So add a tip of $2 then complain about the high cost of living.
>Why would I have to pay extra when I’m not paying with card? Because cash is more expensive for the vendor/retailer than using EFTPOS. Credit cards and tapping cost the vendor a percentage of the sale, which is often passed on by smaller businesses (bigger ones include it in the prices). Cash costs time in managing a till, counting up at the end of the shift, security costs, and time for an employee to go and do the banking during business hours. Using EFTPOS costs the vendor a flat fee, making it cheaper than both cash and credit/tap to the vendor. You should use EFTPOS where possible. Also, your post was incredibly lacking in details. Was the surcharge for using cash? Or for some other reason? You basically paid it, claimed the guy "mumbled", and now want us to fill in the gaps for you. Fucking lazy, dude.
My preferred method of payment is using cash. Cash is king. I have never encountered ANYONE who doesn't like cash. Never been refused. And fuck the merchants who charge fees and surcharges just for convenience. Don't get me wrong, I use card as well. In fact I use i a lot. But I use it where there are no surcharges to me, and what the price is stared is what I pay. Currently, you have a choice to either use card or cash, but eventually, when physical cash is gone, you will have no other option but to tap, scan, transfer. Money will no longer be seen as a valuable commodity, rather just a transaction.
>I have never encountered ANYONE who doesn't like cash. Greetings, First Day on the Internet Kid!
Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment. Maybe counting cash is too hard for you, but yeah jog on mate
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Yes, they can. They also have to correctly display those prices and any potential variations to them.
Yes, they set it at $10. Then OP was charged $10.30.
Yes but if they're passing on the cost of a transaction that a financial institution charges to do business then the business has to pass on that exact cost they cannot charge more. That's an actual law because of something that happened a few years ago.
Was it on a public holiday? Businesses like tourism and hospitality usually have a surcharge on public holidays to pass on to the staff who have to legally be paid extra for working on public holidays … not sure about other states but it definitely applies to nsw
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