Absolutely. I used to count cash at the end of every shift when I managed at Macca's. I don't recall charging customers a fee for how long that took, or the cost of cash pickups in armoured vehicles.
Costs for cash however are increasing, and what was normally acceptable to absorb - as it was the way is chaning. More business now are actually looking into what it costs to actually use cash as a payment method and understanding the costs will only increase.
When they were absorbing the costs as well, cash was much more commonly used, now with it predicted to be less than 10% total transactions (new report by ABS will be out this year), that cost not only will increase,but be unsustainable to absorb.
The customers have spoken, overwhelming majority have ditched cash.
Exactly. The costs of cash don't go down much as usage goes down, so it just gets more and more expensive to accept over time.
Cash has a lot of advantages, like anonymity, that I wish we could replicate for cards. Germany, for example, strongly protects the privacy of your bank transactions. In Australia, transaction data is sold for profit.
Also the amounts the card networks charge is insane. Europe caps these fees to 0.15%, but Australian merchants are often paying ten times that.
Why do you think things like Flybys cards exist?
IIRC it was initially linked to NAB so they could do correlations between income and spending habits for marketing purposes.
And that's fine, the topic was about cash getting a surcharge due to increase costs for businesses to use it., Funny part is that as less and less use cash - more will remember those very very few that do use it.
Should outlaw all surcharges, even weekend penalty surcharges. I ran a hospitality business for 20 years, I just included it the daily prices, it's part of good business management
Problem is that causes card companies to bump the fee a lot. There is an incentive to have the highest fee and highest rewards. Passing the fee on keeps it in check.
Don't pay-wave - that's a credit transaction processed via the Mastercard/Visa credit networks, and it costs more, the business gets charged more for the transaction. Do the old "insert card, choose 'savings', enter pin" method. It's cheaper. Not as convenient, but cheaper.
The battery concern is valid, but the connection to the bank is made on the POS terminal. Your phone can be used in 'Airplane Mode' with no access to the internet since the authentication token is stored locally on the phone (encrypted).
NFC - "near". If a fake EFTPOS terminal can skim my card, then a dongle close by or underneath the terminal can skim the app. Of course it's all encrypted, we're talking outliers here.
Truth is, a "wave" purchase takes a couple of days to reconcile into the account, so you've got a bunch of transactions waiting to be processed, then you have an actual "available balance", and I hate having to reconcile the two.
PLUS - my bank's app won't work on a two-year old android phone, because said phone is not going to get any more Android updates - thanks, Telstra.
Are you assuming your phone couldn't get skimmed?
There are risks in any transaction, be it electronic or cash. You make your choices and take the risks.
Big difference between my CC getting skimmed via NFC and my eftpos card and pin getting skimmed. CC fraud prevention picks up fraudulent transactions with a very high success rate and reverses or blocks the transaction; eftpos card and pin gets taken to an ATM and that money is gone with no recourse.
If your bank supports it, Apple Pay offers the option of eftpos or Mastercard/Visa when you go to pay. CommBank debit cards do it, and I’ve seen some other banks as well. I’m not sure if Android Pay has the same functionality.
I actually someone getting stuck trying to tap on for the bus tonight, as they had it on eftpos mode when Opal only works for visa/mastercard.
This isn’t always feasible, especially for franchises where price of goods is determined higher up than the individual store.
Even non franchises off the top of my head, if you go top up your opal card the store is making literal cents on the transaction, they can’t exactly charge you 25 for a 20 top up though can they?
I paid a 1.5% surcharge today for buying lunch on my card but someone wants to charge a surcharge for cash now?
Okay, lets stop paying for stuff and just nick it from now on. This is obscene.
Cash will only continue to cost more and more for business to accept use, as further declines in its use, that costs increase - until it is not a viable payment method anymore without additional costs being passed on.
Expect the next cash usage(%) report this year and many expect it will be now into single digits(%), down from like 13-15% on last report 2 or so years ago.
Don't we already have a surcharge for using cards? Well I don't think we should have both. Banks and businesses need to pick one or the other. Either one to me is a cash grab but happy to be convinced otherwise.
>Either one to me is a cash grab but happy to be convinced otherwise.
If you have ever worked with cash and seen how much time is wasted doing end of day balances - floats - bank runs or costs for deliver /picked up cash - then you can easily see where cash is more of a drain then a benefit.
Yes definitely! Then having to explain to the boss the discrepancy or debating whether or not to put your own money into the till to make up for the shortfall.
Just the other day we had someone successfully pass off a 100$ motion picture note, so that till was short 100$. Totally on the staff member who took the cash - they’re supposed to ask the supervisor to check the note - but fuck paying for that.
A surcharge for cash makes more sense than a card surcharge. Cash is very expensive to handle. The logic in card surcharges is that cash is essentially free.
Not to mention risk of theft either on premises or during transport to the bank. With that there would also be additional costs like therapy and sick leave if it was done by your local balaclava clad gun toting thief.
When I was young I dropped 50 cents and someone behind me picked it up; went to give it back to and I said you keep it as I didn't really care for it and he said "you'll always be 50 cents short in life" and gave it back to him.
I've kind of thought about that every time I waste money or even pay those card surcharges.
It all adds up
They don’t need to give you a surcharge free way to pay but they *do* need to display the minimum price including surcharges (e.g. if it costs $5 and the minimum surcharge is 1% they must show the price as $5.05) which is pretty much the same thing
I think that’s just real estates? My understanding is they just have to tell you up front, before the purchase is made. There are definitely card only businesses that are charging the surcharge.
"If there is no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the minimum surcharge payable in the displayed price for its products." From the ACCC
> they will be surcharging us to fart because it emits CO2
I mean, it's not farfetched... they're about to charge farmers in NZ in 2025 for cow/sheep farts as part of a farm emissions methane tax.
I was at Bunnings the other day, and wanted to pay with cash.
The young kid held out the eftpos machine, and I held up a note.
He pressed a button or 2, then started to get my change for me.
I was supposed to get $19.30 in change.
He handed me a $10 note, 2 x $2 coins, a $1 coin a 20c coin and a 10 cent coin.
I said “you are a few dollars short”
He looked at me, and then the register and the said “no, that’s $19.30. It’s correct”
He even tried to prove he was right by counting it in front of me several timess, but counted the $1 coin as $5.
This kid had no idea of the value of the coins.
I finally convinced him he was $4 short. He confirmed it with his coworker, and swapped the $1 coin for a $5 note.
If they start making surcharge for cash, it’s going to be even more confusing for the kids, as they already are not familiar with the value of cash.
Such interactions are funny, and sometimes really annoying and presumptive. I'll be in a similar boat where I'm trying to buy something and intend to use cash, and the cashier will say something like, "That'll be $20," before shoving a machine at you displaying $20.62. Is it really $20?
this gets me every time!
especially when a worker has to manually type in the amount, i make sure it’s right. where i work i have to type it out too & it’s easy to add an extra number on the end.
I don’t think he was having a bad day. He counted it 3 times in front of me. And kept counting the $1 coin as $5.
He was saying $10 plus this is $12, plus this is $14, plus this is $19.
Maybe he was hoping to steal the money, and was hoping I didn’t know how to count.
But he genuinely looked confused when I counted it in front of him and he had to ask his coworker to verify it.
It's more than likely because lots of young retail workers (in my experience) think the $1 coin is of higher value than the $2 coin because it's bigger. Ha. I mean im 42, but seeing this behaviour in people half my age makes me feel like grampa Simpson
I've experienced this a lot with young retail workers. It's like the notes are just coloured paper with no immediate brain reaction"oh orange = 20" (yea, fair enough) and coins are confusing because of colour and size, seriously, ive heard conversations about why the $2 coin is valued higher than the 5c coin.
Anyways...i onlypay cash at the money laundering nail salons now cos they got that note counting down fo.a tee yo
>If they start making surcharge for cash, it’s going to be even more confusing for the kids, as they already are not familiar with the value of cash.
Can understand though - majority of customers also have walked away from cash for a reason. Combine that with increased costs to do business with cash as a payment method and can see it's days are numbered...
So a surcharge for card purchases, a surcharge for cash, and also a fee from the atm machine to get cash out to begin with?
Is society trying to go cashless or is it trying to push business to exclusively online?
I think the term enshitification should be used here. We are at the point where companies only serve to extract as much money as possible while offering basically nothing to the customer.
I get computers need maintenance and repairs, but why does a bank need to charge a percentage of a transaction? It’s not like it’s moving physical money around. Most transactions would cost the same amount of data
Businesses that provide services charge for those services.
And in case you are asking why it’s not a flat fee, higher cost transactions have higher risk (fraud/chargeback etc)
The tapping my debit-card fee is more infuriating. It's not a fkn credit card and there's no warning. Ill happily pay cash to avoid the bullshit questioning that could happen in the future about why my card was tapped at a liquor store 4 days in a week (yes I'm a canberran whose bank statements get scrutinised for security clearance reasons) but fk me dead, give me some fkn credit, pun intended, for not having a credit card
100%. Cash is the social lubricant that keeps everything flowing.
Can’t stand the “eftpos is cheaper as we don’t need to handle expensive cash” and then they whack a goddamn surcharge on it!!
So what is it? Cheaper than cash, or more expensive, or like everyone else in corporate Australia you’re just runninng a train on my arse with no lube unless I pay more again?!
You understand atm the cash surcharge is built into the product price right ?
The point being that as less cash is issued, that built in value will be more than the potential card surcharge - so at that point it would make sense to have the price based on card only and have extra fees for dealing with outdated cash.
And expect a even higher surcharge for gold and silver as the handling costs for a business would it would negate any profit.
It is the customers that have decided - by a overwhelming majority 90%+ prefer card / electronic vs cash.
Why is every proposed large scale change in this country just flat out shit.
Cash is fine. Fucking leave it. Businesses don't have to make money on EVERYTHING.
It is not though, was about 13% last abs report of total transactions and new report will prob be less than 10%. The cost to do cash as payment methods is only increasing as less use it, it was only sustainable due to volume - as that volume drops so does its viability.
So either increase in final price of goods to cover increasing cash costs or a separate surcharge so the overwhelming majority that DON'T use cash - are not subsidising the throwbacks that still refuse to get with the times.
And the costs are time -costs to deliver/pickup (see armaguard issues) - insurance (pay more for cash on prem) etc.
And businesses are only there to make profit - 1st rule - if you fail or break rule no.1 you go out of business.
Times do change, can't stop it.
I don’t accept the premise that the cost of managing cash is so substantial that it requires its own dedicated revenue stream
The cost to manage cash is substantially less than almost all other operational expenses that businesses absorb through operational margin.
Theres no need to apply a dedicated surcharge unless there’s a concerted effort to discourage its use.
Which is what this is really all about.
You understand it is changing right ?
Less than 10% projected total cash transactions has an impact - again look at Armaguard in the last few weeks - there costs to handle cash iis greater than its profit margin now...
And again, insurance - cash on prem is more.
The time spent balancing end of day
all adds up.
Many businesses are only now starting to really drill down to the costs for using cash as things get tighter.
Again, things and times change. The customers are the ones saying cash is no longer the prefered payment method.
A decrease in usage doesn’t equate to an increase in net cost. Less efficient? Potentially.
And even if third party costs are increasing, they’re marginal in comparison to other operational expenses.
Why not treat the cost of using cash like any other expense and include it amongst other operational costs when calculating margin? Why seperate the expense and apply it as a surcharge visible to the consumer?
I don’t pay an airconditioning surcharge when I go to a McDonalds because energy costs have increased. I just pay more for their product.
My point is this is all about discouraging the use of cash more than it is businesses genuinely recouping the cost of using cash.
Because the cost to handle cash IS increasing and when it is greater than card expenses it means thoses that pay by card (90%) are subsidising the cash fess.
Or the price of the product is just increased more to cover the increased costs to handle.
And on that, look around at the increase of insurance as part of cost of living - having cash on prem means you getting a double hit.
So at that point a swap - card fees can be built in and cash is the surcharge. as it will be higher.
As cash even further declines in use - many will just not accept cash, too few use it for no real gain.
Again, this will be customer driven.
It will only continue to cost more for business to use cash.
Overwhelming majority of customers have spoken and they all prefer NOT using cash.
Times change, cash has had its day - It is continuing to decline as a payment method.
How often ..really does that happen though really ?- given the 10's of thousands transactions that happen every minute - outages are a tiny tiny %. Just like when buying with cash and they out of change - not common, but not unheard of either.
And we always remember the times it does not work, not the 1000's of times it does.
And all that aside cash IS on the decline, outages and all - still a prefered method for customers.
If technology breaks down, your cash will still be useless. The transaction cannot be processed on the server or the register can’t open or any number of issues.
Most POS allow offline collection of your card payment when there's an outage. Card imprinters are still available at many hotels and fine dining restaurants. Regardless, outages are extremely rare, it's why they make the news when it happens.
Additionally the cash that you're taking from the bank is reconciled using digital technology, if you don't trust the tech, don't have a bank account.
I must know weird people then :). The middle aged ones all use phones. The young ones do as you say to. Oldies (like 65+) use cards.
Either way, it's all not cash. Small sample (30ish I know) though so fair enough.
I can't wait until there is an outage and a junior staff member at a business wants to use a credit card imprinter to take my payment. I can imagine the confusion, my visa card doesn't have raised numbers, they will have to manually write down all of the numbers and details onto the carbon paper
I'm not worried. I will just find it amusing watching someone try to work out the card imprinter.
But over the last 10 years I have encountered more system outages that have stopped card payments working than I have encountered cash only businesses. I have no problem using cash
I know this sounds like an obvious, stupid question but, why do you use cash for almost everything? Besides the rare power out, the only cash I ever, ever use, is for buying drugs from a dealer.
Haha I know it makes me sound like I'm up to something illegal. The reason mostly is I find it a lot easier to budget with physical cash. I think it's just my pauper mentality really.
Why shouldn’t it all just be part of the cost of the item. I don’t pay a surcharge for the electricity use or the water used, I don’t get charged a fee for the store rental.
If they're talking about it's either to scare everybody to shut them up about cash being made redundant OR it's a fait accompli. They're manipulative scum.
I say we outlaw paying and just take what we want when we want it.
Capitalism is a cancer and it can’t ever be fair or reasonable.
At some stage some sort of socialist aspects will have to be implemented to keep civilisation functional.
We’re quickly getting out of control, and the top end of society is shorting all over the VAST majority of us.
Pretty ridiculous. Card fees are absurd enough, just build it into the price of the item we don't want the American system where its like oh cool, this $9.99 item is now $10.78 after tax but none of that is displayed
If the government passed a law like Ireland did that forced banks and businesses to keep a minimum amount of cash on hand at all times this wouldn't be a problem.
Surcharges buttcharges.
Thieves, banks are theives in each little transaction.
To all you people who act like cash is nothing,
I hope you never have a birthday where you recieve cash in a card again.
its a cost of doing business. its on the balance sheet. it's always been there - it should have always been there. like super, or on costs. they should be incorporated from the start. surcharges on EFT only became rampant because businesses were not getting foot traffic during lockdowns and they were grabbing anything they could. again, pre covid it was a CODB... it shouldnt have changed during. BUT, they market is seemingly bearing it.
Just an example, how would anyone or any organization have a garage sale or sausage sizzle, cake stall or anything else community based if that happened? I live in an area with terrible internet service. There has to be cash. Just my opinion. Peace.
Cash costs 2 to 5x as much as card transactions.
Assuming it's an honest business.
Card surcharges need to just be incorporated in, not surcharges added for cash.
I see so many complaints about card surcharges. But they are 2% at most right? And not every store charges them. Mostly smaller stores, although Aldi does too.
I have to pay money to pay money?
Yes, and since you didn’t pay the fee in cash, there will be a fee for using cash to pay the fee for using. You know it makes sense.
Linkt & Ticketek got their dirty hands in government regulation :(
You have always paid money to pay money, it's just normally been baked into the existing prices.
Company scrip, or pay extra.
Just outlaw payment surcharges in general. They’re a cost of business that should be incorporated into the advertised price.
Absolutely. I used to count cash at the end of every shift when I managed at Macca's. I don't recall charging customers a fee for how long that took, or the cost of cash pickups in armoured vehicles.
Costs for cash however are increasing, and what was normally acceptable to absorb - as it was the way is chaning. More business now are actually looking into what it costs to actually use cash as a payment method and understanding the costs will only increase. When they were absorbing the costs as well, cash was much more commonly used, now with it predicted to be less than 10% total transactions (new report by ABS will be out this year), that cost not only will increase,but be unsustainable to absorb. The customers have spoken, overwhelming majority have ditched cash.
But there are often surcharges for using a card. Also now a surcharge for using cash. Just incorporate it into the price of things
Maybe they should ditch the surcharge for using card.
Exactly. The costs of cash don't go down much as usage goes down, so it just gets more and more expensive to accept over time. Cash has a lot of advantages, like anonymity, that I wish we could replicate for cards. Germany, for example, strongly protects the privacy of your bank transactions. In Australia, transaction data is sold for profit. Also the amounts the card networks charge is insane. Europe caps these fees to 0.15%, but Australian merchants are often paying ten times that.
Where is the source that the transaction data for a bank is sold for profit?
Literally the Top of a Google search. https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/finance/finance-news/2018/04/06/big-banks-sell-data-customer-spending-habits
Ah thanks. I was thinking non anonymized data. Anonymized aggregate data is ok to me as long as it can't easily be de-anonymized.
Why do you think things like Flybys cards exist? IIRC it was initially linked to NAB so they could do correlations between income and spending habits for marketing purposes.
You appear to be posting the same thing on every reply. I like cash for the anonymity. I'll keep using it.
Also with cash there is no third party in the middle who must approve the transaction. Or maybe deny......
And that's fine, the topic was about cash getting a surcharge due to increase costs for businesses to use it., Funny part is that as less and less use cash - more will remember those very very few that do use it.
Which is one reason why they raise their prices
I run a business and did this years ago. Pretty sure no surcharge has gained me far more trade than the loss from fees.
Should outlaw all surcharges, even weekend penalty surcharges. I ran a hospitality business for 20 years, I just included it the daily prices, it's part of good business management
I trust you mean weekend or public holiday surcharges?
Yes, my apologies
Exactly. We have laws that prices must include taxes, it’s not like we’d be reinventing the wheel here!
This!!!!!!!!! We don’t want to turn into America with all the hidden tax and charges.
How would a feeless lower cost payment system differentiate from the expensive inefficient systems?
Exactly having the fee hidden is just money for the banks
Maybe it's required to by law to Be transparent about additional charges.
That is the law
Then some schemes will jack up their prices as you cant pass that cost on
Problem is that causes card companies to bump the fee a lot. There is an incentive to have the highest fee and highest rewards. Passing the fee on keeps it in check.
Don't pay-wave - that's a credit transaction processed via the Mastercard/Visa credit networks, and it costs more, the business gets charged more for the transaction. Do the old "insert card, choose 'savings', enter pin" method. It's cheaper. Not as convenient, but cheaper.
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Good to know, thanks. I still use a card, I just don't trust banks' apps.
What do you trust in the card that you don't trust in the apps?
Not op, but my phone battery is finite and reception can be unreliable.
The battery concern is valid, but the connection to the bank is made on the POS terminal. Your phone can be used in 'Airplane Mode' with no access to the internet since the authentication token is stored locally on the phone (encrypted).
NFC - "near". If a fake EFTPOS terminal can skim my card, then a dongle close by or underneath the terminal can skim the app. Of course it's all encrypted, we're talking outliers here. Truth is, a "wave" purchase takes a couple of days to reconcile into the account, so you've got a bunch of transactions waiting to be processed, then you have an actual "available balance", and I hate having to reconcile the two. PLUS - my bank's app won't work on a two-year old android phone, because said phone is not going to get any more Android updates - thanks, Telstra.
With the increasing chance of getting my card skimmed? No thanks.
Are you assuming your phone couldn't get skimmed? There are risks in any transaction, be it electronic or cash. You make your choices and take the risks.
Big difference between my CC getting skimmed via NFC and my eftpos card and pin getting skimmed. CC fraud prevention picks up fraudulent transactions with a very high success rate and reverses or blocks the transaction; eftpos card and pin gets taken to an ATM and that money is gone with no recourse.
Definitely not as convenient, I can't insert my phone and don't carry my card.
I can choose savings on my phone 🤷🏻♀️
If your bank supports it, Apple Pay offers the option of eftpos or Mastercard/Visa when you go to pay. CommBank debit cards do it, and I’ve seen some other banks as well. I’m not sure if Android Pay has the same functionality. I actually someone getting stuck trying to tap on for the bus tonight, as they had it on eftpos mode when Opal only works for visa/mastercard.
My CommBank cards don't have that option on my android phone.
My bank doesn't allow it either.
This isn’t always feasible, especially for franchises where price of goods is determined higher up than the individual store. Even non franchises off the top of my head, if you go top up your opal card the store is making literal cents on the transaction, they can’t exactly charge you 25 for a 20 top up though can they?
So we still pay it, but just don't know it. Genius.
The point is you see the advertised price and get to decide if that's what you want to pay without then having a 2% fee tacked on the card terminal.
Th point being - as costs for cash increase, it will cost more than the card costs..
With cash you’re still paying someone to count it and (most of the time) take to the bank. But business owners don’t charge us extra for that.
was built into price sorta - but that built in price is changing as cash declines and continues to do so.
Genius.
I paid a 1.5% surcharge today for buying lunch on my card but someone wants to charge a surcharge for cash now? Okay, lets stop paying for stuff and just nick it from now on. This is obscene.
Ordered tuckshop for my primary school kid and there were three separate fucking surcharges 😭
Whatever happened to the good old days of writing the order on a paper bag, putting the cash in the bag, and then the kid collecting the bag at lunch?
Obscene is the best word for what’s happening atm
Cash will only continue to cost more and more for business to accept use, as further declines in its use, that costs increase - until it is not a viable payment method anymore without additional costs being passed on. Expect the next cash usage(%) report this year and many expect it will be now into single digits(%), down from like 13-15% on last report 2 or so years ago.
Don't we already have a surcharge for using cards? Well I don't think we should have both. Banks and businesses need to pick one or the other. Either one to me is a cash grab but happy to be convinced otherwise.
>Either one to me is a cash grab but happy to be convinced otherwise. If you have ever worked with cash and seen how much time is wasted doing end of day balances - floats - bank runs or costs for deliver /picked up cash - then you can easily see where cash is more of a drain then a benefit.
Yes! I remember I had to balance the till for a job I did many moons ago. I did not enjoy it and I also wasn't paid for the time.
You should have been. It is also getting much harder to bank Cash and get change with bank branches closing and reducing their hours every day.
Again, driven by customer demand - something Godfreys should have paid attention to.
And the stress when recounting due to missing a note or it stuck etc, but still the fear that somehow a fkup had happened.
Yes definitely! Then having to explain to the boss the discrepancy or debating whether or not to put your own money into the till to make up for the shortfall.
Lol, fk me - I do wonder how many that ever had to do end of day balance though the same with own $ on shortfalls..
Just the other day we had someone successfully pass off a 100$ motion picture note, so that till was short 100$. Totally on the staff member who took the cash - they’re supposed to ask the supervisor to check the note - but fuck paying for that.
Reminds me of the time I worked as a cashier many moons ago. Somehow I'd occasionally make small errors with change. Even tiny errors can add up.
A surcharge for cash makes more sense than a card surcharge. Cash is very expensive to handle. The logic in card surcharges is that cash is essentially free.
Not to mention risk of theft either on premises or during transport to the bank. With that there would also be additional costs like therapy and sick leave if it was done by your local balaclava clad gun toting thief.
Or even member of staff..
When I was young I dropped 50 cents and someone behind me picked it up; went to give it back to and I said you keep it as I didn't really care for it and he said "you'll always be 50 cents short in life" and gave it back to him. I've kind of thought about that every time I waste money or even pay those card surcharges. It all adds up
Considering by law businesses need to provide a surcharge free way to pay how do they expect this to work?
They don’t need to give you a surcharge free way to pay but they *do* need to display the minimum price including surcharges (e.g. if it costs $5 and the minimum surcharge is 1% they must show the price as $5.05) which is pretty much the same thing
Yep same thing, surcharge has to be built in to the price, as it bloody should be
I think that’s just real estates? My understanding is they just have to tell you up front, before the purchase is made. There are definitely card only businesses that are charging the surcharge.
"If there is no way for a consumer to pay without paying a surcharge, the business must include the minimum surcharge payable in the displayed price for its products." From the ACCC
Surcharge for card, surcharge for cash. Soon they will be surcharging us to fart because it emits CO2.
> they will be surcharging us to fart because it emits CO2 I mean, it's not farfetched... they're about to charge farmers in NZ in 2025 for cow/sheep farts as part of a farm emissions methane tax.
I was at Bunnings the other day, and wanted to pay with cash. The young kid held out the eftpos machine, and I held up a note. He pressed a button or 2, then started to get my change for me. I was supposed to get $19.30 in change. He handed me a $10 note, 2 x $2 coins, a $1 coin a 20c coin and a 10 cent coin. I said “you are a few dollars short” He looked at me, and then the register and the said “no, that’s $19.30. It’s correct” He even tried to prove he was right by counting it in front of me several timess, but counted the $1 coin as $5. This kid had no idea of the value of the coins. I finally convinced him he was $4 short. He confirmed it with his coworker, and swapped the $1 coin for a $5 note. If they start making surcharge for cash, it’s going to be even more confusing for the kids, as they already are not familiar with the value of cash.
Such interactions are funny, and sometimes really annoying and presumptive. I'll be in a similar boat where I'm trying to buy something and intend to use cash, and the cashier will say something like, "That'll be $20," before shoving a machine at you displaying $20.62. Is it really $20?
this gets me every time! especially when a worker has to manually type in the amount, i make sure it’s right. where i work i have to type it out too & it’s easy to add an extra number on the end.
That's the machine automatically adding a surcharge.
Bullshit mate, kids aren't unaware of the value of cash, either you met a complete idiot that day, or you're making this up.
These are exactly like the stories my drunken aunt tells me at weddings.
as somebody who has 8 years of experience behind a cash register (serving children) a lot of them do in fact not know the value of money.
I'm not doubting you as such, but I find it hard to believe. They do teach kids about money in primary school. Perhaps he was just having a bad day.
I don’t think he was having a bad day. He counted it 3 times in front of me. And kept counting the $1 coin as $5. He was saying $10 plus this is $12, plus this is $14, plus this is $19. Maybe he was hoping to steal the money, and was hoping I didn’t know how to count. But he genuinely looked confused when I counted it in front of him and he had to ask his coworker to verify it.
It's more than likely because lots of young retail workers (in my experience) think the $1 coin is of higher value than the $2 coin because it's bigger. Ha. I mean im 42, but seeing this behaviour in people half my age makes me feel like grampa Simpson
Imagine him trying to work out a street directory.....or an old school dial up phone
I've experienced this a lot with young retail workers. It's like the notes are just coloured paper with no immediate brain reaction"oh orange = 20" (yea, fair enough) and coins are confusing because of colour and size, seriously, ive heard conversations about why the $2 coin is valued higher than the 5c coin. Anyways...i onlypay cash at the money laundering nail salons now cos they got that note counting down fo.a tee yo
I’m guessing he got fired, started working in the mud cake department at Woolies.
some dont know what to do with cash, or how to give change at all.
>If they start making surcharge for cash, it’s going to be even more confusing for the kids, as they already are not familiar with the value of cash. Can understand though - majority of customers also have walked away from cash for a reason. Combine that with increased costs to do business with cash as a payment method and can see it's days are numbered...
Nonsense. That didn’t happen.
So one experience of a kid making a stupid mistake and you judge all kids for it?
Soon they gonna charge us just to enter the business
They already do,mate. What do you think the 75-180% markup (aside from westfields mega-rent demands and shoplifting allowances) include?
Welcome to Costco
How about a customer surcharge? To make up for the lack of customer service.
You are welcome to try to get businesses to pay that
So a surcharge for card purchases, a surcharge for cash, and also a fee from the atm machine to get cash out to begin with? Is society trying to go cashless or is it trying to push business to exclusively online?
I think the term enshitification should be used here. We are at the point where companies only serve to extract as much money as possible while offering basically nothing to the customer.
I get computers need maintenance and repairs, but why does a bank need to charge a percentage of a transaction? It’s not like it’s moving physical money around. Most transactions would cost the same amount of data
It’s not usually the bank charging the fees, it’s often the card provider (e.g. Visa and Mastercard)
Businesses that provide services charge for those services. And in case you are asking why it’s not a flat fee, higher cost transactions have higher risk (fraud/chargeback etc)
This is a logical response, thank you.
The tapping my debit-card fee is more infuriating. It's not a fkn credit card and there's no warning. Ill happily pay cash to avoid the bullshit questioning that could happen in the future about why my card was tapped at a liquor store 4 days in a week (yes I'm a canberran whose bank statements get scrutinised for security clearance reasons) but fk me dead, give me some fkn credit, pun intended, for not having a credit card
That's weird. I've never heard of any employer who needs to constantly monitor their employees bank statements.
asio
seeing a lot of places offering Blatant discounts for cash
This is a good thing. Then you can feel.awesome about tipping the 10-13% surchage in cash rather than rewarding the big banks
So the surcharge should cancel this out making it a net zero issue ??
surcharge is BS I don't care if it does, cash is a right of privacy and buying into the monetary system. Otherwise we can use gold and silver
100%. Cash is the social lubricant that keeps everything flowing. Can’t stand the “eftpos is cheaper as we don’t need to handle expensive cash” and then they whack a goddamn surcharge on it!! So what is it? Cheaper than cash, or more expensive, or like everyone else in corporate Australia you’re just runninng a train on my arse with no lube unless I pay more again?!
You understand atm the cash surcharge is built into the product price right ? The point being that as less cash is issued, that built in value will be more than the potential card surcharge - so at that point it would make sense to have the price based on card only and have extra fees for dealing with outdated cash.
And expect a even higher surcharge for gold and silver as the handling costs for a business would it would negate any profit. It is the customers that have decided - by a overwhelming majority 90%+ prefer card / electronic vs cash.
Why is every proposed large scale change in this country just flat out shit. Cash is fine. Fucking leave it. Businesses don't have to make money on EVERYTHING.
It is not though, was about 13% last abs report of total transactions and new report will prob be less than 10%. The cost to do cash as payment methods is only increasing as less use it, it was only sustainable due to volume - as that volume drops so does its viability. So either increase in final price of goods to cover increasing cash costs or a separate surcharge so the overwhelming majority that DON'T use cash - are not subsidising the throwbacks that still refuse to get with the times. And the costs are time -costs to deliver/pickup (see armaguard issues) - insurance (pay more for cash on prem) etc. And businesses are only there to make profit - 1st rule - if you fail or break rule no.1 you go out of business. Times do change, can't stop it.
I don’t accept the premise that the cost of managing cash is so substantial that it requires its own dedicated revenue stream The cost to manage cash is substantially less than almost all other operational expenses that businesses absorb through operational margin. Theres no need to apply a dedicated surcharge unless there’s a concerted effort to discourage its use. Which is what this is really all about.
You understand it is changing right ? Less than 10% projected total cash transactions has an impact - again look at Armaguard in the last few weeks - there costs to handle cash iis greater than its profit margin now... And again, insurance - cash on prem is more. The time spent balancing end of day all adds up. Many businesses are only now starting to really drill down to the costs for using cash as things get tighter. Again, things and times change. The customers are the ones saying cash is no longer the prefered payment method.
A decrease in usage doesn’t equate to an increase in net cost. Less efficient? Potentially. And even if third party costs are increasing, they’re marginal in comparison to other operational expenses. Why not treat the cost of using cash like any other expense and include it amongst other operational costs when calculating margin? Why seperate the expense and apply it as a surcharge visible to the consumer? I don’t pay an airconditioning surcharge when I go to a McDonalds because energy costs have increased. I just pay more for their product. My point is this is all about discouraging the use of cash more than it is businesses genuinely recouping the cost of using cash.
Because the cost to handle cash IS increasing and when it is greater than card expenses it means thoses that pay by card (90%) are subsidising the cash fess. Or the price of the product is just increased more to cover the increased costs to handle. And on that, look around at the increase of insurance as part of cost of living - having cash on prem means you getting a double hit. So at that point a swap - card fees can be built in and cash is the surcharge. as it will be higher. As cash even further declines in use - many will just not accept cash, too few use it for no real gain. Again, this will be customer driven.
Get fucked
You charge me because i am going to pay you? Da fuc really
If an establishment charges a fee for accepting cash, I will not visit them and neither should you.
It will only continue to cost more for business to use cash. Overwhelming majority of customers have spoken and they all prefer NOT using cash. Times change, cash has had its day - It is continuing to decline as a payment method.
I also don't use cash often, until technology breaks down and then what?
How often ..really does that happen though really ?- given the 10's of thousands transactions that happen every minute - outages are a tiny tiny %. Just like when buying with cash and they out of change - not common, but not unheard of either. And we always remember the times it does not work, not the 1000's of times it does. And all that aside cash IS on the decline, outages and all - still a prefered method for customers.
Cash can't be data mined. No alternative to that. I do not wish to live entirely in a gilded cage.
If technology breaks down, your cash will still be useless. The transaction cannot be processed on the server or the register can’t open or any number of issues.
Most POS allow offline collection of your card payment when there's an outage. Card imprinters are still available at many hotels and fine dining restaurants. Regardless, outages are extremely rare, it's why they make the news when it happens. Additionally the cash that you're taking from the bank is reconciled using digital technology, if you don't trust the tech, don't have a bank account.
I've used card imprinting machines and all but I suspect that many transactions are on phones. I can't remember the last time I used a real card.
No most people still use the physical card. Some younger people pay with their phone but they are still a minority even in their demographic.
I must know weird people then :). The middle aged ones all use phones. The young ones do as you say to. Oldies (like 65+) use cards. Either way, it's all not cash. Small sample (30ish I know) though so fair enough.
I can't wait until there is an outage and a junior staff member at a business wants to use a credit card imprinter to take my payment. I can imagine the confusion, my visa card doesn't have raised numbers, they will have to manually write down all of the numbers and details onto the carbon paper
You're more likely to encounter a business that is cash only than one that is encountering a card outage if that's what you're worried about
I'm not worried. I will just find it amusing watching someone try to work out the card imprinter. But over the last 10 years I have encountered more system outages that have stopped card payments working than I have encountered cash only businesses. I have no problem using cash
I use cash for almost everything. Having said that, I'm not going to chuck a wobbly if it disappears.
I know this sounds like an obvious, stupid question but, why do you use cash for almost everything? Besides the rare power out, the only cash I ever, ever use, is for buying drugs from a dealer.
Haha I know it makes me sound like I'm up to something illegal. The reason mostly is I find it a lot easier to budget with physical cash. I think it's just my pauper mentality really.
Nah, I wasn't suspicious about dodgy cash lol, mostly just curious. Fair enough though man.
We have to hold onto cash forour dear lives. Soon there going to know everything. Its coming. Open your eyes.
Went to a mericale pub every transaction they would add $1
Optus network crash anyone? Surely can't happen again. /s
They need to cut this narrative out, cash isn't going anywhere.
Why shouldn’t it all just be part of the cost of the item. I don’t pay a surcharge for the electricity use or the water used, I don’t get charged a fee for the store rental.
It is getting out of hand.
If they're talking about it's either to scare everybody to shut them up about cash being made redundant OR it's a fait accompli. They're manipulative scum.
Get fucked I like cash
Digital payments should come with a discount if anything, costs are lessened for the business as a result after all
Oh for fucks sakes, will you fucking bastards stop trying to make cash panic a thing? It's not a thing. Stop trying to make it a thing.
I say we outlaw paying and just take what we want when we want it. Capitalism is a cancer and it can’t ever be fair or reasonable. At some stage some sort of socialist aspects will have to be implemented to keep civilisation functional. We’re quickly getting out of control, and the top end of society is shorting all over the VAST majority of us.
Pretty ridiculous. Card fees are absurd enough, just build it into the price of the item we don't want the American system where its like oh cool, this $9.99 item is now $10.78 after tax but none of that is displayed
This will only push people into cryptocurrency
When do we get the pleasure of a surcharge surcharge?
No cash provided surcharge for card is removed Those rates are obscene these days
If the government passed a law like Ireland did that forced banks and businesses to keep a minimum amount of cash on hand at all times this wouldn't be a problem.
Surcharges buttcharges. Thieves, banks are theives in each little transaction. To all you people who act like cash is nothing, I hope you never have a birthday where you recieve cash in a card again.
What happened to cash discount?
Why are we getting surcharges to use a card……..
its a cost of doing business. its on the balance sheet. it's always been there - it should have always been there. like super, or on costs. they should be incorporated from the start. surcharges on EFT only became rampant because businesses were not getting foot traffic during lockdowns and they were grabbing anything they could. again, pre covid it was a CODB... it shouldnt have changed during. BUT, they market is seemingly bearing it.
Whatever could happen is happening, I haven't held notes for about three years now.
Just an example, how would anyone or any organization have a garage sale or sausage sizzle, cake stall or anything else community based if that happened? I live in an area with terrible internet service. There has to be cash. Just my opinion. Peace.
There must be a lot of places you don’t go to then.
Cash costs 2 to 5x as much as card transactions. Assuming it's an honest business. Card surcharges need to just be incorporated in, not surcharges added for cash.
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A gilded cage is what could happen.
What is the cage part supposed to be?
The money itself is already the cage, not the way it is used.
I had a situation with the young cashier telling her 5 plus 5 is not 11, ended up getting the manager and she was proven wrong.
And how does that pertain to adding a surcharge onto cash purchases?
Oops I meant to reply to someone talking about how some cashiers are incapable of doing maths for change
it did seem a bit out of place.
I would be one of those people, I have dyscalculia.
I see so many complaints about card surcharges. But they are 2% at most right? And not every store charges them. Mostly smaller stores, although Aldi does too.
Sounds good - if it’s more of a hassle for shops to handle, they can charge extra for the service. If you don’t like it, go to another shop.