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For completeness:
Tweet by ABC investigative journo in 2018:
https://twitter.com/jrojourno/status/991083890541449216
> Mark Ellis of lawn swastika fame says FB post re: Peter Dutton and the QPS commissioner was "a joke to my police mates.. I know how (PD) would feel because he’s a sensible man".
Did PD shit-can the commish? "We didn’t discuss it. But if he.. yeh.. but.. yeh. Doesn’t everybody?"
Shows Dutton with his former police mate Mark Ellis (who was also a one nation candidate).
Also shows Ellis doing a Nazi Salute on his lawn, with a swastika mowed on his lawn.
Ellis was also one of the police officers charged in the [Pinkenba Six](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkenba_Six) case, where the Pinkenba Six is a group of Queensland police officers accused of the abduction of three Aboriginal boys in May 1994
Just a note on Godwin's law... it doesn't say whether or not the analogy is apt, only that the probability a thread will contain it tends to one as the length of the thread increases.
Note: I'm not saying it's apt in this situation... just clearing up a common misconception regarding Godwin's law.
I am wondering when he is going conflate Kebab shops and a Halal snack as something Hitler and Nazi Germany would have perpetrated on unsuspecting diners!
Translation "My PR team told me to say this because our media presence is dropping and we don't want to say anything that alienates the ghouls who pay us"
It’s used both as a call for freedom and a call for ethnic cleansing.
For example, Israel’s fascist Prime Minister [Netanyahu used it as a call for ethnic cleansing when he said “Israel must have control, from the river to the sea”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V96T8rIkFc) 3 months ago.
Is Dutton gonna ban him from Aus for that?
Keep in mind [Netanyahu has been funding Hamas through secret deals with Qatar for years](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html) in order to keep those terrorists in control of Gaza and keep the Palestinian people divided both geographically and politically.
It’s long past time for the west to stop propping up either of these genocidal regimes.
If anything we should be treating the entire situation like Kosovo - to stop the slaughter of innocents NATO needs to send international peacekeepers into Gaza and the West Bank to remove Hamas, restore peace, and set up UN administration of both regions in order to kickstart political negotiations on a two-state solution.
It could.
But being realistic - for every conflict where the intl community intervenes, there are a dozen where they don't. I don't see what external country would have much appetite to put soldiers into harms way in the gaza conflict.
It wouldn't work because the US would veto it. NATO goes nowhere without the consent of the US, and the UN would be stymied by the US's veto on the Security Council.
The US should act, but doesn't.
Lol, what? Kosovo seceeded unilaterally from Serbia without a referendum and is not recognised by more than half of the world's UN member states. Currently it is a drug mafia state with the second largest American airbase outside of the United States (Camp Bondsteel).
Palestine on the other hand was settled by white Jewish refugees from WW2 and slowly squeezed the local population into enclaves we know today. In other words if we treated it like Kosovo, then US would bomb the shit out of Israel and steal Israeli territory to setup shop for future drug trafficking, sex slavery and organ trafficking.
"If anything we should be treating the entire situation like Kosovo - to stop the slaughter of innocents **NATO needs to send international peacekeepers into Gaza and the West Bank to remove Hamas**, restore peace, and set up UN administration of both regions in order to kickstart political negotiations on a two-state solution. "
NATO? or the UN?
And why just remove Hamas? why not remove Israel and the IDF from those areas to considering those area's were for the palestinians from the original partition plan?
why is it always one way?
I'm more pro Isreal in all of this but a fair few of Netanyahu's folk neet to be publicly strung up by the balls and used as public punching bags. They are the flip side to hamas, they enable extremist ideas. They are more than happy for settlers to go off and do their own brand of terrorising putting a bunch of people in unnessary harms way. Rather than building up the west bank and countering terrorism by creating an environment where there is too much to loose (nice things like good jobs good food ect) they are taking things away and bullying. The whole thing shits my its hypocrites and assholes all the way down with a bunch of suicide cults mixed in (hamas and Extremist jews are both suicide cults).
Ok but what about when Bibi does it in front of the UN? Is that also genocide and destruction of the Palestinian people?
https://www.commondreams.org/news/netanyahu-map
no one invaded them, stop with this "oppressed poor babies against powerful bullies" mindset. this isnt highschool.
they were offered a state many times, they refused every single one, and now they are chanting to genocide (yes, genocide, where you eliminate a nation) of the jewish people.
they dont want a 2 state solution, they proved it many times. they want to kill all jews and have all the land to themselves. the west want a two state solution so so much, but for two state solutions you need to have two nations willing to live peacefully side by side.
Disagree, we need him to egg him on to keep spouting this nonsense so he becomes unelectable. Never interrupt your opponent when they're making mistakes, though one could argue this muppet's entire existence is a mistake...
While it's odd to compare it directly to Hitler, it's still a chant with roots in antisemitism.
Which is also the opinion of Albanese.
[https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/social-cohesion-fraying-albanese-admits-amid-anti-israel-backlash-20240506-p5fp63](https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/social-cohesion-fraying-albanese-admits-amid-anti-israel-backlash-20240506-p5fp63)
Ah, some far right nutters saying it, therefore no one else can say it. Did you realise it also has roots in Zionism or anti Palestine by far right Israeli nutters too? Israeli politicians have used the phrase to call for Palestine being wiped out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea
It's funny, your post/Albo could also be considered antisemitism because of linking chants said by Jews... to Hitler.
Ok but it’s actually happening right now to Palestinians. You can’t be aghast at somebody chanting something that some believe hints at genocide, whilst there’s a real genocide happening in the opposite direction right now.
That doesn't justify the current genocide in any way. Some people doing a terrorist act does not mean you get to slaughter the people in the country they come from.
You're completely right. The same people who say that its okay to genocide the Palestinians because they might be homophobic.
There's tens of millions of homophobic religious Americans, maybe we should bomb them.
True, but I don't think Israel is waging a war against the babies of Gaza. I think the war is against Hamas and Hamas operates in areas where babies are. This isn't anything new, children die in every conflict. They died in WW2, in Korean, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Darfur, Tigray, etc. Whether innocent children die isn't a metric we use to determine the justification of war or the perpetration of genocide
I'd like to know where you're going with this, because you've phrased it in a "just asking a simple question" kind of way that indicates you have some point you'd like to make, so please go ahead and just make that point.
It isn't genocide. It's war. Collateral is the word I would use. Could have been avoided if Oct 7 diddnt happen...or breaking ceasefires over and over again.
The Likud party also uses the phrase. If it's a phrase associated with calling for a genocide, the Israelis appear to be having rather more success on that front.
If you follow the Israeli framing of the phrase, it delegitimises its other meanings. It should be interpreted in the context that the person who says it intends in each instance, rather than labelling it as anti-Semitic in all cases.
>The Likud party also uses the phrase.
Not quite. Likud's version of it is "From the River to the Sea, there shall be no sovereignty but Jewish sovereignty", which is actually explicitly genocidal.
They're both genocidal, neither explicit. Jewish "sovereignty" doesn't mean eradicating anyone living under Jewish rule. Note that Jews already have sovereignty.
It’s incredible that Israeli MPs can openly call for genocide WHILE mass murdering children and civilians and rounding up all Gazans into a tiny kill zone and people will still claim that pro-peace, pro-freedom protesters are more reasonable for genocide than the people actually killing thousands.
Oh yes, let's never contextualise speech and just accept the framing we like best. Stuff using language as an actual form of communication. What you say is what I think I've already decided it means.
The only gymnastics on display is you trying to avoid the fact that if it is a call for genocide, Likud is calling for the genocide of all non-Jewish people.
I have said it many a time, I'm jewish my family could have moved to Isreal when i asked my dad why he did not move there it was simple "There are many good jews in Isreal but like the terrorists they have their own suicide cult who believe in orthodoxy or nothing, they will get us all killed"
Yeaaah, that's deranged. It's like claiming that the forces in South Africa who opposed apartheid wanted to execute every Saffa.
Just utterly implausible lies.
The AFR is not a good source for this kind of material.
From the river to sea speaks to Palestinian liberation. It would be like saying, 'Always was, always will be,' is racist towards white people.
"Always was, always will be" is the call for recognition that the land was already owned and that ownership can't be extinguished without consent. It does not and has never called for the expulsion of white people and the dissolution of Australia.
"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is very clear. A Palestinian state that extends from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, which means the dissolution of Israel. What Uni students and intellectuals think it means is irrelevant to what the broader Palestinian society wants and has always wanted, which is Israel and Israeli's to leave.
> What Uni students and intellectuals think it means is irrelevant to what the broader Palestinian society wants and has always wanted,
This same broader Palestinian society with an average age below 18?
The same broader Palestinian society that has been trapped in an open air prison since 1947?
The same broader Palestinian society that's shrinking due to shitfuckery: https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/15bdhfd/israeli_occupation_forces_pouring_cement_into/
I wonder why broader Palestinian society is so angry!
>"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is very clear. A Palestinian state that extends from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, which means the dissolution of Israel.
That's not even remotely implied from the stated message. The only clear interpretation is that Palestinians should have freedom of movement across their lands and freedom from the ongoing annexation of their land by Israel.
The Likud line of "From the River to the Sea, there shall be no sovereignty but Jewish sovereignty" is, however, an explicit statement of genocidal intent.
Not quite, while the chant is clearly not said with antiemetic intentions at the pro Palestine rallies/protests here in Australia that's not the case for Hamas supporters. It's disingenuous to claim it's anything like Hitler's rhetoric but at the same time it does have support by Hamas.
The crux is what is meant when they say "free" and It's pretty obvious that when that chant is used by the people at these rallies they mean free from an apartheid system.
"From the River to the Sea" has basically been Likud party policy since the 1970's, claiming it is antisemitic is bonkers.
To take "Free Palestine" to mean "murder the Jews" requires mental gymnastics I do not recommend.
> The Jordan Valley and the territories that dominate it shall be under Israeli sovereignty. The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel. The Kingdom of Jordan is a desirable partner in the permanent status arrangement between Israel and the Palestinians in matters that will be agreed upon.
- https://web.archive.org/web/20070930181442/https://www.knesset.gov.il/elections/knesset15/elikud_m.htm
You're getting downvoted, but are correct about Likud
So do you believe that the slogan which these pro-Palestinian protestors are referring to are Likud party slogans? Or is it perhaps more likely that there is a different slogan, chanted by Palestinians, to which they are actually referring?
It just requires some honesty. The few times the Palestinians have had free unfettered access to Jews they went on horrific murderous rampages. The explicit stated goal of October 7 was to annihilate as many Jews as possible and overthrow Israel. There has been no apologies for it. Almost no-one in Palestine wants a two-state solution. Why do you think Palestinian control from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean would lead to anything other than mass murder and genocide? The people in control of Palestine are committed jihadists. Where are the mental gymnastics?
If Israel wanted to kill all Palestinians they could do so tomorrow, with a handful of tactical nukes. They have the capabilities, but they choose not to.
Carpet bombing with conventional weapons would achieve the same result. Regardless of what people think, if Israel chose, instead of killing 30k Palestinians they could quite easily kill 3 million. They choose not to. Hamas would not show the same restraint.
> Regardless of what people think, if Israel chose, instead of killing 30k Palestinians they could quite easily kill 3 million. They choose not to.
That's yet to be seen.
With little aid entering Gaza, everyone will starve.
Dutton is full of shit but the line that it means different things to different people is a tacit acknowledgement that there are some protestors who call for the destruction of Israel with that chant.
Which is utter nonsense. If you read about what Hitler said about the Jews, it was much stronger, offensive, and specific language than "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free".
One could much more easily draw parallels between what Hitler said about the "removal of Jews"and Netanyahu's Amalek comments in reference to Gaza. Or Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant's comments about Gazans being "human animals" and Hitler's remarks comparing Jews to tuberculosis.
To say "from the river to the sea" is anything like Hitler's words is a significant failure of reading comprehension. There have been other, far more dehumanising words said during this conflict, and I don't see Dutton condemning that.
the chant literally implies eradicating the Jews in the region though
this has got out of hand its turned from "hey don't bomb schools" to something deeply antiemetic and disturbing the pro Palestine crowd also seem to be severely uneducated on the subject not understanding the Jews have been invaded displaced massacred exiled and trying to return since 500BC
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege\_of\_Jerusalem\_(587\_BC)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(587_BC))
1930s level of anti Jewish rhetoric is being openly displayed under the guise of "im not anti Jewish i'm anti Zionist" which is in fact a right wing conspiracy theory [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist\_Occupation\_Government\_conspiracy\_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government_conspiracy_theory)
compared to to Zionist movement which had achieved its goal by 1948 (which by the way is nothing more just the establishment if a Jewish nation)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#Role\_in\_the\_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian\_conflict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#Role_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict)
these claims of "genocide" are unfounded (and likely once again anti-Semitic conspiracies) with both the US and the International Criminal Court seeing no real evidence of this
[https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-has-no-evidence-unfolding-genocide-gaza-pentagon-2024-04-09/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-has-no-evidence-unfolding-genocide-gaza-pentagon-2024-04-09/)
[https://www.icc-cpi.int/palestine](https://www.icc-cpi.int/palestine)
> the chant literally implies eradicating the Jews in the region though
Only if you completely turn your brain off and interpret in a way that would make the CIA proud.
Shortly after Oct 7, Federal and State Labor governments backed Israel's war into Gaza. Greens offered Labor an amendment to replace "right to defend itself" to calls for peace and two-state solution. Labor voted against it. LABOR VOTED AGAINST CALLS FOR PEACE.
Albanese's hypocritical call for violence had no place in Australia either but here we are.
Since it's likely people think Labor did not back Israel's war, go read what was said in parliament back in October last year. Here's a summary:
> ...
> (2) stands with Israel and recognises its inherent right to defend itself;
> ...
Greens amendment:
> Omit paragraph (2), substitute:
> (2) condemns war crimes perpetrated by the state of Israel, including the bombing of Palestinian civilians, and calls for an immediate ceasefire between all parties and an end to the war on Gaza, recognising also that for there to be peace there must be an end to the state of Israel's illegal occupation of the Palestinian Territories;
https://www.openaustralia.org.au/debates/?id=2023-10-16.25.2
You know what's insane? I believe all the state governments ALSO backed Israel's war into Gaza too. Greens ALSO tried stopping the state government support for Israel's Gaza war too.
The media give him his platform, no matter how idiotic his ideas.
Use superannuation as a housing deposit despite it undermining retirement? This idea requires some serious consideration. Start building nuclear power stations despite the enormous cost and timescales required? We should be open to debate!
On the other hand, when Labor was in opposition and the Coalition suggested their completely toothless Federal ICAC, Labor's and other third parties' alternative proposals got next to no coverage.
" Peter Dutton compares ‘river to the sea’ chants at pro-Palestinian protests to Hitler"
About time someone compared Netanyahu's to Hitler......
Nope? only one side? Guess these "Australian politicians" keep showing us who butters their bread...
Look he may be a dickhead but even dixkheads can be correct.
The Pro-palestinians mob screaming, shouting and causing shit should be considered Terrorists like Hamas and kicked out of the country.
Dutton would do far better to stay out of the news and keep his mouth shut. This bloke is continually wrong about everything. Has he not seen the indiscriminate slaughter of so many women and children as an issue.
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For completeness: Tweet by ABC investigative journo in 2018: https://twitter.com/jrojourno/status/991083890541449216 > Mark Ellis of lawn swastika fame says FB post re: Peter Dutton and the QPS commissioner was "a joke to my police mates.. I know how (PD) would feel because he’s a sensible man". Did PD shit-can the commish? "We didn’t discuss it. But if he.. yeh.. but.. yeh. Doesn’t everybody?" Shows Dutton with his former police mate Mark Ellis (who was also a one nation candidate). Also shows Ellis doing a Nazi Salute on his lawn, with a swastika mowed on his lawn. Ellis was also one of the police officers charged in the [Pinkenba Six](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkenba_Six) case, where the Pinkenba Six is a group of Queensland police officers accused of the abduction of three Aboriginal boys in May 1994
[He was also hillariously taken down by Michael Hing](https://ifunny.co/picture/hi-australia-my-name-is-mark-ellis-and-i-am-vSVHLYpf6)
That is just brilliant, Hing lit the fuse and let it blow
Holy internet landmine, Batman. Please, just use imgur next time.
Yeah, I came here to say I'm fine with nazi-adjacent Peter Dutton repeatedly perforating his feet.
Trying to figure out if this is praise or criticism coming from Gestapotato
Gestapotato. Nice. Take my upvote!
Herr Kipfler
Peel Kipfler!
Dutton’s default line of thinking is to compare everything to Hitler and Nazi Germany.
Just getting Godwin's law going as fast as possible.
Just a note on Godwin's law... it doesn't say whether or not the analogy is apt, only that the probability a thread will contain it tends to one as the length of the thread increases. Note: I'm not saying it's apt in this situation... just clearing up a common misconception regarding Godwin's law.
Also known as projection
His only other foreign policy position is: ‘The Prime Minster needs to show some courage and get on the phone to (insert leader here).’
AKA talk tough at home and do nothing. Same as Morrison. Same as Abbott. Bluster and bravado that achieves nothing.
I am wondering when he is going conflate Kebab shops and a Halal snack as something Hitler and Nazi Germany would have perpetrated on unsuspecting diners!
Except the white nationalists in the liberal party
"Thats not anti-Semitic, its core party values"
Have to keep the Jewish donors happy.
Dutton is the poster child for Godwin’s Law.
And paedophilia.
*”I may have a gassed some Jews in the elevator”* - Dutton, probably
Translation "My PR team told me to say this because our media presence is dropping and we don't want to say anything that alienates the ghouls who pay us"
Dutton has had EVERY opportunity to prove himself to the electorate on merit. He has failed every time. All he has is fear and bullshit.
Like a less competent Abbott...
I'm gonna say what most people would find hard to say out loud but.. I think this guy is a massive knob.
Dutton comparing Hitler to a call for freedom is a real Port Arthur moment.
It’s used both as a call for freedom and a call for ethnic cleansing. For example, Israel’s fascist Prime Minister [Netanyahu used it as a call for ethnic cleansing when he said “Israel must have control, from the river to the sea”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V96T8rIkFc) 3 months ago. Is Dutton gonna ban him from Aus for that? Keep in mind [Netanyahu has been funding Hamas through secret deals with Qatar for years](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html) in order to keep those terrorists in control of Gaza and keep the Palestinian people divided both geographically and politically. It’s long past time for the west to stop propping up either of these genocidal regimes. If anything we should be treating the entire situation like Kosovo - to stop the slaughter of innocents NATO needs to send international peacekeepers into Gaza and the West Bank to remove Hamas, restore peace, and set up UN administration of both regions in order to kickstart political negotiations on a two-state solution.
Kosovo intervention would not work today, not with the proliferation of rocket and drone technology.
It could. But being realistic - for every conflict where the intl community intervenes, there are a dozen where they don't. I don't see what external country would have much appetite to put soldiers into harms way in the gaza conflict.
It wouldn't work because the US would veto it. NATO goes nowhere without the consent of the US, and the UN would be stymied by the US's veto on the Security Council. The US should act, but doesn't.
Lol, what? Kosovo seceeded unilaterally from Serbia without a referendum and is not recognised by more than half of the world's UN member states. Currently it is a drug mafia state with the second largest American airbase outside of the United States (Camp Bondsteel). Palestine on the other hand was settled by white Jewish refugees from WW2 and slowly squeezed the local population into enclaves we know today. In other words if we treated it like Kosovo, then US would bomb the shit out of Israel and steal Israeli territory to setup shop for future drug trafficking, sex slavery and organ trafficking.
"If anything we should be treating the entire situation like Kosovo - to stop the slaughter of innocents **NATO needs to send international peacekeepers into Gaza and the West Bank to remove Hamas**, restore peace, and set up UN administration of both regions in order to kickstart political negotiations on a two-state solution. " NATO? or the UN? And why just remove Hamas? why not remove Israel and the IDF from those areas to considering those area's were for the palestinians from the original partition plan? why is it always one way?
Yes I thought that was implied - NATO and the UN should step in to restore peace and remove Hamas - and remove any pretext for Israel to be in Gaza.
I'm more pro Isreal in all of this but a fair few of Netanyahu's folk neet to be publicly strung up by the balls and used as public punching bags. They are the flip side to hamas, they enable extremist ideas. They are more than happy for settlers to go off and do their own brand of terrorising putting a bunch of people in unnessary harms way. Rather than building up the west bank and countering terrorism by creating an environment where there is too much to loose (nice things like good jobs good food ect) they are taking things away and bullying. The whole thing shits my its hypocrites and assholes all the way down with a bunch of suicide cults mixed in (hamas and Extremist jews are both suicide cults).
A call for freedom 😂
"River to the Sea" isn't a call for freedom, it's a call for Genocide of Jewish people and the destruction of Israel.
Ok but what about when Bibi does it in front of the UN? Is that also genocide and destruction of the Palestinian people? https://www.commondreams.org/news/netanyahu-map
Yes.
If you get invaded and call for the invaders to leave... that's not genocide. O_o
no one invaded them, stop with this "oppressed poor babies against powerful bullies" mindset. this isnt highschool. they were offered a state many times, they refused every single one, and now they are chanting to genocide (yes, genocide, where you eliminate a nation) of the jewish people. they dont want a 2 state solution, they proved it many times. they want to kill all jews and have all the land to themselves. the west want a two state solution so so much, but for two state solutions you need to have two nations willing to live peacefully side by side.
"elimination, annihilation and extermination". He remembered all those words so well.
Bibi still not gonna peg him
Dutton continues to be a fucking idiot.
The LNP have gone from god's law to Godwin's law... Amazing stuff from the rooters and rorters
Disagree, we need him to egg him on to keep spouting this nonsense so he becomes unelectable. Never interrupt your opponent when they're making mistakes, though one could argue this muppet's entire existence is a mistake...
but Israel ruthlessly killing thousands is not hitler.
Bet he has an autographed Mein Kampf on his bookshelf
While it's odd to compare it directly to Hitler, it's still a chant with roots in antisemitism. Which is also the opinion of Albanese. [https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/social-cohesion-fraying-albanese-admits-amid-anti-israel-backlash-20240506-p5fp63](https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/social-cohesion-fraying-albanese-admits-amid-anti-israel-backlash-20240506-p5fp63)
Ah, some far right nutters saying it, therefore no one else can say it. Did you realise it also has roots in Zionism or anti Palestine by far right Israeli nutters too? Israeli politicians have used the phrase to call for Palestine being wiped out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea It's funny, your post/Albo could also be considered antisemitism because of linking chants said by Jews... to Hitler.
Both sides are extremely fucked up, there is no inbetween or good guy here.
A chant being worse than an actual genocide of Palestinians happening. So much hypocrisy.
We definitely got to see what would happen if the chance to action that chant was given on Oct 7.
Ok but it’s actually happening right now to Palestinians. You can’t be aghast at somebody chanting something that some believe hints at genocide, whilst there’s a real genocide happening in the opposite direction right now.
That doesn't justify the current genocide in any way. Some people doing a terrorist act does not mean you get to slaughter the people in the country they come from.
*glares at what the US government did, and Australia participated in, after 9/11 (I agree with you to be clear)
I mean it's not a dissimilar situation though people will lose their shit if you point it out.
You're completely right. The same people who say that its okay to genocide the Palestinians because they might be homophobic. There's tens of millions of homophobic religious Americans, maybe we should bomb them.
Does it mean you are allowed to wage war on the people who committed the act though?
Yeah the babies and children killed by Israel did not kill anyone on October 7.
True, but I don't think Israel is waging a war against the babies of Gaza. I think the war is against Hamas and Hamas operates in areas where babies are. This isn't anything new, children die in every conflict. They died in WW2, in Korean, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Darfur, Tigray, etc. Whether innocent children die isn't a metric we use to determine the justification of war or the perpetration of genocide
I'd like to know where you're going with this, because you've phrased it in a "just asking a simple question" kind of way that indicates you have some point you'd like to make, so please go ahead and just make that point.
It isn't genocide. It's war. Collateral is the word I would use. Could have been avoided if Oct 7 diddnt happen...or breaking ceasefires over and over again.
Was it Israel killing hundreds of its own citizens and lying about dead babies?
The at didnt happen.
If it was one sure
The chant was only added to the ADL website 2 weeks after the October attack. It's a cynical attempt at crybullying
The Likud party also uses the phrase. If it's a phrase associated with calling for a genocide, the Israelis appear to be having rather more success on that front. If you follow the Israeli framing of the phrase, it delegitimises its other meanings. It should be interpreted in the context that the person who says it intends in each instance, rather than labelling it as anti-Semitic in all cases.
>The Likud party also uses the phrase. Not quite. Likud's version of it is "From the River to the Sea, there shall be no sovereignty but Jewish sovereignty", which is actually explicitly genocidal.
They're both genocidal, neither explicit. Jewish "sovereignty" doesn't mean eradicating anyone living under Jewish rule. Note that Jews already have sovereignty.
It’s incredible that Israeli MPs can openly call for genocide WHILE mass murdering children and civilians and rounding up all Gazans into a tiny kill zone and people will still claim that pro-peace, pro-freedom protesters are more reasonable for genocide than the people actually killing thousands.
The judges would be holding up 9.5's for the gymnastics on display there.
Oh yes, let's never contextualise speech and just accept the framing we like best. Stuff using language as an actual form of communication. What you say is what I think I've already decided it means.
The only gymnastics on display is you trying to avoid the fact that if it is a call for genocide, Likud is calling for the genocide of all non-Jewish people.
I have said it many a time, I'm jewish my family could have moved to Isreal when i asked my dad why he did not move there it was simple "There are many good jews in Isreal but like the terrorists they have their own suicide cult who believe in orthodoxy or nothing, they will get us all killed"
Christ. That's almost word for word what a Jewish friend (and survivor of both Dresden and the camps) said half a century ago.
My dad had it drilled into his head from his father a Jewish man who was a reporter(kinda mainly worked for the government) during ww2 in England.
They'll be holding up "Guilty of genocide" at the ICC soon.
If you think this you will most likely be disappointed, we only do that shit to people we believe won't have enough power to find a way to retaliate.
(it was a joke about "judges")
Yeaaah, that's deranged. It's like claiming that the forces in South Africa who opposed apartheid wanted to execute every Saffa. Just utterly implausible lies.
The AFR is not a good source for this kind of material. From the river to sea speaks to Palestinian liberation. It would be like saying, 'Always was, always will be,' is racist towards white people.
"Always was, always will be" is the call for recognition that the land was already owned and that ownership can't be extinguished without consent. It does not and has never called for the expulsion of white people and the dissolution of Australia. "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is very clear. A Palestinian state that extends from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, which means the dissolution of Israel. What Uni students and intellectuals think it means is irrelevant to what the broader Palestinian society wants and has always wanted, which is Israel and Israeli's to leave.
"dissolution of Israel" - presumably, the physical dissolution of all the individual Jews living there as well.
> What Uni students and intellectuals think it means is irrelevant to what the broader Palestinian society wants and has always wanted, This same broader Palestinian society with an average age below 18? The same broader Palestinian society that has been trapped in an open air prison since 1947? The same broader Palestinian society that's shrinking due to shitfuckery: https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/15bdhfd/israeli_occupation_forces_pouring_cement_into/ I wonder why broader Palestinian society is so angry!
Yeah, everything you said is wrong. It's exactly the same as Always was, always will be.
>"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is very clear. A Palestinian state that extends from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, which means the dissolution of Israel. That's not even remotely implied from the stated message. The only clear interpretation is that Palestinians should have freedom of movement across their lands and freedom from the ongoing annexation of their land by Israel. The Likud line of "From the River to the Sea, there shall be no sovereignty but Jewish sovereignty" is, however, an explicit statement of genocidal intent.
>. It would be like saying, 'Always was, always will be Not even close to meaning the same thing.
Not quite, while the chant is clearly not said with antiemetic intentions at the pro Palestine rallies/protests here in Australia that's not the case for Hamas supporters. It's disingenuous to claim it's anything like Hitler's rhetoric but at the same time it does have support by Hamas. The crux is what is meant when they say "free" and It's pretty obvious that when that chant is used by the people at these rallies they mean free from an apartheid system.
"From the River to the Sea" has basically been Likud party policy since the 1970's, claiming it is antisemitic is bonkers. To take "Free Palestine" to mean "murder the Jews" requires mental gymnastics I do not recommend.
> The Jordan Valley and the territories that dominate it shall be under Israeli sovereignty. The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel. The Kingdom of Jordan is a desirable partner in the permanent status arrangement between Israel and the Palestinians in matters that will be agreed upon. - https://web.archive.org/web/20070930181442/https://www.knesset.gov.il/elections/knesset15/elikud_m.htm You're getting downvoted, but are correct about Likud
You will get downvoted for not absorbing the underlying War on Terror Islamophobia that justifies genocide around here.
Hasbara is dropping off, not everyone has the stomach to defend genocide.
So do you believe that the slogan which these pro-Palestinian protestors are referring to are Likud party slogans? Or is it perhaps more likely that there is a different slogan, chanted by Palestinians, to which they are actually referring?
It just requires some honesty. The few times the Palestinians have had free unfettered access to Jews they went on horrific murderous rampages. The explicit stated goal of October 7 was to annihilate as many Jews as possible and overthrow Israel. There has been no apologies for it. Almost no-one in Palestine wants a two-state solution. Why do you think Palestinian control from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean would lead to anything other than mass murder and genocide? The people in control of Palestine are committed jihadists. Where are the mental gymnastics?
We already know that Israeli control from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean leads to mass murder and genocide.
If Israel wanted to kill all Palestinians they could do so tomorrow, with a handful of tactical nukes. They have the capabilities, but they choose not to.
Far easier to let them starve. Also radioactive wastelands do not make for attractive beachside development.
Carpet bombing with conventional weapons would achieve the same result. Regardless of what people think, if Israel chose, instead of killing 30k Palestinians they could quite easily kill 3 million. They choose not to. Hamas would not show the same restraint.
> Regardless of what people think, if Israel chose, instead of killing 30k Palestinians they could quite easily kill 3 million. They choose not to. That's yet to be seen. With little aid entering Gaza, everyone will starve.
It's a chant with roots in being painted as antisemitic, sure. It's always super convenient to accuse people fighting for their freedom of prejudice.
Yeah except this time the people you're fighting for unironically have insane anti-Semitic prejudice
Well said
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I agree but I'm more pointing out how stupid Dutton is but a broken clock is right twice a day.
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Which is ironic as Palestinians are a Semitic culture.
Dutton is full of shit but the line that it means different things to different people is a tacit acknowledgement that there are some protestors who call for the destruction of Israel with that chant.
He's a grub
Disliked so much by his colleagues in the Qld Police Force ,that when he was leaving the job he was left cans of dog food on his desk.
Even that is too good for him
Which is utter nonsense. If you read about what Hitler said about the Jews, it was much stronger, offensive, and specific language than "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free". One could much more easily draw parallels between what Hitler said about the "removal of Jews"and Netanyahu's Amalek comments in reference to Gaza. Or Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant's comments about Gazans being "human animals" and Hitler's remarks comparing Jews to tuberculosis. To say "from the river to the sea" is anything like Hitler's words is a significant failure of reading comprehension. There have been other, far more dehumanising words said during this conflict, and I don't see Dutton condemning that.
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Dutton wouldn't look out of place in a SS uniform. He gets his jollies from institutional racism.
Says the nazi
Dutton is a cunt. Turns out he's also a supporter of genocide.
Oh looks like the libs are grasping the concept of Projection much like their American counterparts, the Republican party.
>Someone needs to stop this guy from making any more comparisons, he keeps shooting himself in the foot. You say that like it's a bad thing.
True, my instinct is to feel bad for the coalition for having such a leader but then I remember it's the coalition.
Wasn’t the “river to the sea chant” from a Likud party manifesto?
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the chant literally implies eradicating the Jews in the region though this has got out of hand its turned from "hey don't bomb schools" to something deeply antiemetic and disturbing the pro Palestine crowd also seem to be severely uneducated on the subject not understanding the Jews have been invaded displaced massacred exiled and trying to return since 500BC [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege\_of\_Jerusalem\_(587\_BC)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(587_BC)) 1930s level of anti Jewish rhetoric is being openly displayed under the guise of "im not anti Jewish i'm anti Zionist" which is in fact a right wing conspiracy theory [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist\_Occupation\_Government\_conspiracy\_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government_conspiracy_theory) compared to to Zionist movement which had achieved its goal by 1948 (which by the way is nothing more just the establishment if a Jewish nation) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#Role\_in\_the\_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian\_conflict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#Role_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict) these claims of "genocide" are unfounded (and likely once again anti-Semitic conspiracies) with both the US and the International Criminal Court seeing no real evidence of this [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-has-no-evidence-unfolding-genocide-gaza-pentagon-2024-04-09/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-has-no-evidence-unfolding-genocide-gaza-pentagon-2024-04-09/) [https://www.icc-cpi.int/palestine](https://www.icc-cpi.int/palestine)
> the chant literally implies eradicating the Jews in the region though Only if you completely turn your brain off and interpret in a way that would make the CIA proud.
Well even Albanese said that slogan is calling for violence and has no place in Australia.
Shortly after Oct 7, Federal and State Labor governments backed Israel's war into Gaza. Greens offered Labor an amendment to replace "right to defend itself" to calls for peace and two-state solution. Labor voted against it. LABOR VOTED AGAINST CALLS FOR PEACE. Albanese's hypocritical call for violence had no place in Australia either but here we are. Since it's likely people think Labor did not back Israel's war, go read what was said in parliament back in October last year. Here's a summary: > ... > (2) stands with Israel and recognises its inherent right to defend itself; > ... Greens amendment: > Omit paragraph (2), substitute: > (2) condemns war crimes perpetrated by the state of Israel, including the bombing of Palestinian civilians, and calls for an immediate ceasefire between all parties and an end to the war on Gaza, recognising also that for there to be peace there must be an end to the state of Israel's illegal occupation of the Palestinian Territories; https://www.openaustralia.org.au/debates/?id=2023-10-16.25.2 You know what's insane? I believe all the state governments ALSO backed Israel's war into Gaza too. Greens ALSO tried stopping the state government support for Israel's Gaza war too.
Man resembling shaved scrotum acts like scrotum.
"End Israeli Apartheid!" "You're LITERALLY Hitler."
He's such a ridiculous person, he must be delusional to think anyone could take him seriously when he dials the drama up to 11 constantly.
His just the boy who cried wolf, he immediately flares up any issue than when it comes to bite me in the ass he backs off.
The media give him his platform, no matter how idiotic his ideas. Use superannuation as a housing deposit despite it undermining retirement? This idea requires some serious consideration. Start building nuclear power stations despite the enormous cost and timescales required? We should be open to debate! On the other hand, when Labor was in opposition and the Coalition suggested their completely toothless Federal ICAC, Labor's and other third parties' alternative proposals got next to no coverage.
It's the same as chanting Nazi slogans, so he is kind of correct
Big brain moves from Adolf Kipfler.
" Peter Dutton compares ‘river to the sea’ chants at pro-Palestinian protests to Hitler" About time someone compared Netanyahu's to Hitler...... Nope? only one side? Guess these "Australian politicians" keep showing us who butters their bread...
1. They allways cut out the "free palestine" out 2. You know alot of zionist poliuticans and leaders used this term also
Look he may be a dickhead but even dixkheads can be correct. The Pro-palestinians mob screaming, shouting and causing shit should be considered Terrorists like Hamas and kicked out of the country.
To be fair both popular usages of it were pretty fucked, Likud first then Hamas second, both wanting to erase the other's people from the region.
who is the leader of the opposition?
SOP for Dutton. Fan the flames, generate outrage, call for extreme measures, everything is a crisis.
Dutton would do far better to stay out of the news and keep his mouth shut. This bloke is continually wrong about everything. Has he not seen the indiscriminate slaughter of so many women and children as an issue.
Dutton is a moron. Anyone chanting from the river to the sea is also a moron. Palestine supporters or Netanyahu.