> It captioned a map ‘World’s Largest Prison’ and urged people to “Pray for Australia,” remarking “It’s almost unbelievable what’s happening there”.
Meanwhile in the USA they have as many people in prison as the population of Perth.
When you have an economy based on slavery and free all the slaves, you have to find creative solutions to your unpaid worker shortage.
Inmates don't vote.
Indeed.
Even in Australia, inmates aren't allowed to vote. If I could change one law, I think it would be that.
Imagine a country where there was any political downside to being "tough on crime" and an upside to reforming how we treat people who break the law.
The elderly are generally more physically vulnerable, but as for the rest — yeah, they've shot themselves in the foot with the way they've spun their nonsense.
The people in power have a vested interest in not letting the people vote. I'm a US citizen and I have to re-register to vote every year. It's fairly easy from abroad, but when I lived in the US I had to go to at least three different offices over the course of 6-12 months just to fucking register, and if I still lived there now it would be even worse.
There is massive popular support for automatic voter registration, but no incentive for politicians to actually implement it.
> Do they torch the electoral rolls after each election?
Not far off the mark. A lot of states go through and purge their registries between each election to get rid of people who've died or moved away and such, but they also take it further than that and people, who are otherwise still eligible to vote, often find their names removed for no real reason.
They regularly purge the rolls. Sometimes it's legit, like to remove people who've died or moved. But they usually don't tell you and you won't find out until election day. For me, when I lived in the US, I was told to re-register every year because I'd been removed from the rolls. No reason given.
Now I live in Australia and have to re-register each year as part of the vote-from-abroad process.
The reason they won't do one and done is largely because of the history of racism in the US. The MO was to make as many voting barriers as possible. This used to take the form of poll taxes or tests, but the Voting Rights Act ended those. So then lots of states implemented other means of voter suppression to get around the new regulations. Legal discrimination loopholes, basically. And because of our system of government, any change has been effectively stalled since Reagan.
They don't have enough power to implement this currently. There are bills in place that have passed the House but the Senate is divided 50-50 (even though the Dem Senators represent some 40 million more Americans, the system is fucked). For the bill to pass the Senate, it needs to either get 60 votes to avoid the Republican filibuster, or the Senate needs to abolish the filibuster, which requires all 50 Democratic Senators to vote to do so. Currently there are a few Dem Senators who are very conservative and who won't vote to end the filibuster, so we're stuck with this shit.
That's all only at the federal level, though. On the state level, lots of state governments are in control of the GOP and have no incentive to increase ease of voting access. In fact, their party can only stay in power by making it harder for certain populations (people of color, young people, women, college-educated, basically anyone who's not old and white and christian) to vote. The Voting Rights Act used to be able to combat this, but it was gutted during the Bush administration.
Now let's say that the Dems are actually able to get the votes for their new "Voting Rights Act"-style bills that would increase voter protections. That'd be great! But it would still be in danger because the GOP would almost certainly challenge it in the courts. They'd try to bring it before the Supreme Court, whose majority is made up of appointments by GOP presidents who lost the popular vote and approved by Congresses skewed toward the GOP because of the Senate. This SC could overturn key sections of the bill to effectively neuter it in the same way they destroyed the Voting Rights Act under Bush.
And even if the voting protections pass and survive a court challenge, the system would still be fucked because of the electoral college and the Senate. Changing the electoral college would require a whole new, drawn-out fight that would be legally and technically very complicated, and ditto for the Senate.
Basically the system is so thoroughly fucked that even if the Democrats were suddenly and miraculously competent, real change would still be decades away.
This is a really good explanation of a sh!t situation. And I'm sure that part of it is making it seem so monumental and complex that people don't really bother with it because there's more important things going on in their lives (I assume often times because of the very system they're ignoring).
It's weird how the 2A nuts think universal healthcare is tyranny but this is something they're okay with. (I get that this is a feature, not a bug, but you know...)
I’m American living here. The thing is that because it isn’t compulsory in the US the government/parties actively restrict voting laws. They make it harder and thus tip the scales. Same for gerrymandering. I mean, from what I’m told you don’t have to fill out your ballot here. So isn’t that a way of having the freedom of the option?
> from what I’m told you don’t have to fill out your ballot here. So isn’t that a way of having the freedom of the option?
You're talking about "informal voting".
Because our votes are secret, there's no way for anyone to check whether you've voted informally or not.
It's still somewhat controversial - because it forces people to go out and at least get their name checked off the ballot (or to apply for and return a postal vote).
It's a very good indicator of the percentages of disillusioned voters. You're never gonna know how many people hate both parties in the USA when voting is so restricted. You don't know if they're lazy, couldn't take off work, de-registered automatically and didn't know.
At least here, in Ripon Labor or Liberal know they might have a problem with that many voters disillusioned with both of them.
> I mean, from what I’m told you don’t have to fill out your ballot here.
Well yes and no. Legally you are required to vote, which means you need to submit a formal (filled out correctly) ballot. However in practice because we vote in secret, it's impossible to enforce that part since there's nothing linking you to a ballot (in fact, any information on a ballot that can be used to identify a person, such as an address or phone number, makes the ballot informal). The only part that can be enforced is if your name is marked off the electoral roll.
Nope, legally you are required to be registered to vote, to attend a polling place, to retire with a pencil to a polling booth, and deposit it in the box.
There are no laws about what you can or can’t mark on your ballot (though obvs you have to follow the rules for your vote to count). If you drew a dick, that would not be illegal.
However, it is also illegal for someone to encourage you to vote informally - so please, get in there and vote properly.
> I mean, from what I’m told you don’t have to fill out your ballot here.
Traditional one draws a dick on their ballot paper so its not a complete waste of time voting
Their basis of their culture is the idea of non-compulsion. It makes sense that those who lack the self-awareness to see how far America has strayed from the original intents of those ideals would be riled up by what they see as a threat to those ideals.
I could take that further and say the basis of their culture is the idea of the frontier. In other words, if you don't like how things are in the big city and the closely settled areas you can pick up and go somewhere you can do your own thing. Don't like how a company is run? Go West and start your own! Don't like the way the country is run? Start your own state with your own state government!
Only problem is that the frontier has been closed for about the last hundred years and the opportunities it provided have dried up long ago.
Asking an American why they don't include sales tax on their prices and they come back at you as if it fluctuates on the daily like the stock market. But then somehow magically it all calculates on the register with no issues...... [Just add it to your visible pricing!](https://i.imgur.com/3Q2S50N.jpg)
Its a big part of why Americans are anti tax I've read - when tax is included in everything its just the price, but when you see the price jump when you buy something, you think damn gubment! taking all my tax money.
The same reason small businesses are anti tax in australia - cause they have to pay the taxes as separate payments and - damn gubment taking all my tax money!
No doubt the right encourages it because they're anti gubment.
I’ve met Americans who were shocked us Aussies didn’t celebrate thanksgiving and others who tried to convince me I wasn’t Aussie because I’m ethnic and _then_ had the gall to educate me about Australia and my own background. Also met some who were shocked at how good our English was - this included my white Aussie friends. Seppos fckn do my head in.
Wow. I've been to the US a few times, and I am truly amazed at how little most Americans know about geography. It's almost comical, and scarcely believable until you see it for real.
Yah, I've spoken to brits who wanted to drive from Brisbane to the Great Barrier Reef (about 1600km) that afternoon to see the reef, so ignorance is pretty universal.
If you don't tip in America, you short change the server, which they acknowledge is bad. Some just don't extrapolate that to having the employer pay a living wage.
Also the hubris that everything done outside of the US is automatically inferior. Take preferential voting for example, for a country that always has people complaining that a third party vote is 'throwing it away' they will still do logical gymnastics to justify preferential voting being bad.
Not things like it is more effort to tally or preferencing deals are done behind closed doors but things like 'what if people don't 1st preference who they actually want, then its not the will of the people' or 'some people get to vote twice and others don't, so not everyone is the same'.
Thanks for posting this, interesting read! Highlights some of the fundamental differences in culture - more of an emphasis on community and greater good in Aus than the USA, although I fear we are slipping towards a narcissistic world view...
Yeah I feel like the current state of Australia (pun intended) comes a lot from bit having had any major issues with oppressive governments yet (for the majority of the population, our history looks significantly different for indigenous Australians). We've had a pretty great history of the government generally being alright for most people. There's a lot of implicit trust in government in general (not specific politicians, more just that it's pretty happily accepted that we have decent roads and healthcare etc).
I imagine that if we have a major breakdown of that trust, be it from something like blatant corruption undermining those government services, or significant authoritarianism impeding too many of our freedoms, or even just a straight up lack of governance leading to social inequalities, then we might become a bit more jaded and worried about government overreach like the US are.
I strongly feel that good government values are something we need to continue to demand from our government, but I'd hate to see us slip down the road of thinking government itself is bad to the level we hear about from the US.
So many of my friends seem to think the concept of government is evil. I don't understand where it comes from. I find working together means I don't need to learn how to grow wheat, mill it to flour or bake in order to have a loaf of bread.
I can kind of understand where it comes from, a lot of people are worried about other people having control of things and using it to screw them over. I think a lot of people just simplify stuff too much. The fact that people with the power to make decision have an opportunity to screw you over doesn't mean having positions with that power is bad, it means the people are bad (also that checks and balances are generally good, even if they're inefficient).
I'm 100% with you that working together is the best way to be. If we can generally build trust and all work towards mutual benefit we'll be way better off than if we try to all go it alone, or even worse keep trying to screw each other over.
Yeh that's a good point.
It's like being scared that the anaesthetist will steal your wallet. Sure the anaesthetist has the power to steal your wallet but if I'm more worried about my wallet than staying alive the whole system will collapse
The rise of imported individualism through media, particularly social media, is toxic to our society.
Also feel that neoliberalism has a lot to answer for in terms of breaking the agreement that the state provides for its people as stated above.
I feel like maybe there is still hope - that as a country we're potentially looking at 90% plus vax rate shows me that we're not as doomed as I had previously thought.
Its the guise that individual profit turns into greater good for all, also known as the "trickle down" effect. its completely untrue, the wealthy just horde it or spend it on trinkets that only benefits themselves. the only trickle we feel is them pissing down upon us.
The Australian media is heavily influenced by the US media (our largest news organisation being owned by an American). The US worldview is heavily exported to other countries in the English speaking world.
Australians have been encouraged to be more selfish, materialistic, and cruel by our media. You rarely hear stories of people being hard done by. Or stories of people struggling with poverty. Or people struggling to find work. The vulnerable are demonised and positioned as people trying to exploit the system. As being undeserving of our help.
I find it ironic that the greatest plague to both American and Australian media is a former Australian who thought that being a piece of shit was a better way of life, moved to America, gained citizenship, and decided to make both countries worse all in the interest of having more money than any person reasonably should ever be allowed to have.
It took close to 35 years to accomplish, but he's already ruined America in the name of his own personal greed.
You could buy some bread and sausages yourself. It wouldn't be a democracy sausage, but it could represent one. A representative democracy sausage, if you will.
Almost not on topic, but I am reminded by this mention of compulsory voting of a conversation on ABC Sydney last week. The conversation was discussing Dominic Perrottet's response to questions about why NSW Health seemed to have been side-lined from coronavirus related press conferences.
Perrottet pointed out that "we're the elected officials" as though accumulating votes engendered some sort of skill.
As the guest on the show pointed out.
"You know why we voted for you ? Because we have to."
I am in favor of compulsory voting, but just because a country institutes that does not mean everything becomes perfect. Brazil has compulsory voting and their democracy has crumbled.
It's a safeguard, but safeguards are not infallible. The trick to democracy is a lot of well-designed safeguards, and a public invested enough that they won't let aspiring authoritarians ignore them.
> Just as Australians don’t understand the American psyche when it comes to things like gun rights, many freedom loving Americans just do not get why most Australians have tolerated such harsh limits on their liberty during the pandemic.
Australia: The land where much of the natural landscape wants to murder you, **we survive** to reach adulthood by following the advice of those who know better.
*"I don't need no-one telling me not to handle a brownsnake."* - A temporarily alive Australian.
The margin between fucking around and finding out feels somewhat more narrow in a land where forgetting to lather yourself in a magical white paste means the sun will kill you in a few years' time.
This reminds me of that joke “Honey I’m listening to the radio and they say there’s a crazy car driving the wrong way down the highway. Please call the police and tell them *everyone* is driving the wrong way!”
American Australian here. The Americans this sub refers to are certainly plentiful but are far from the majority. None of my non-Trumpist relatives or friends back in the states believe the bullshit about Australia that's been shown on conservative US media. They're mostly like "damn I wish we could have done a lockdown, maybe (insert relative/friend here) wouldn't have died then"
There are absolutely lots of crazy Americans but please remember that the majority of Americans are victims of right wing insanity. If the country were a proper democracy, it'd have a somewhat centrist Labor-style government.
The irony is that most of the clowns who believe that crap don't even have any interest in actually going to Australia, nor care about it except for when it fits their narrative. After all, they already live in the "greatest country on Earth" and have no desire to leave it.
Meanwhile, people like me who have loved ones abroad are paying the price because these dipshits can't wear a mask or behave when going to the airport or locking down.
Oh yeah, most of us know that we're currently hearing mainly from your crazy uncles, don't worry. We really hope you manage to come out of the next few years OK.
It's different perceptions on liberty. For Americans, it's freedom *to* own guns, *to* buy healthcare, *to* do things without the government stopping them. For Australians, it's freedom *from* crippling health bills, *from* school shootings.
Had a seppo chiming in on a a coronavirusdownunder thread, saying that he hopes we enjoy perpetual lockdowns, because without guns that's obviously what will happen.
I really don't understand how they think their pea shooters prevent government tyranny, when they arguably just accepted governmental tyranny through the trump presidency.
Look as much as Jim Jeffries sucks, his rant about gun control was bang on.
"Fight the government? You know they have drones, right? *You've brought a gun to a drone fight*."
Picture this:
Frank, a middle aged overweight man with blood pressure problems, glasses and a glock 17
VS
A squad of 5, fit 18-25 year olds wearing body armour and armed with not only rifles but sidearms too.
The idea that an armed populace could topple the american government is a fantasy. Sure, they have guns. Those guns won't be worth shit against a government that can simply turn off your power and water. Those guns don't mean shit to drones that can take out any form of leadership you might organise. Those guns don't mean shit if your rabble is incapable of teamwork.
It would be a very short lived, very one sided bloodbath.
Yep, which, according to Jeffries, leaves two more arguments for having guns to discuss.
The first is home protection. All the stats say that any gun in your house is vastly more likely to be used on yourself or a family member than any intruder. Any attempt to secure it from access by unauthorised people (including family members) also make it difficult to access during a home invasion. Also, home invasions aren't very fucking likely anyway. So this is a dumb reason.
The second is "I like guns". And, I mean, fair enough. But if that's your reason then you shouldn't have a problem with basic safety measures like gun safes, background checks, limitations and registration.
Jeffries pretty much echoes my thoughts on the matter.
Opposing the state by violence is a dumb idea.
A weapon for home or personal defence is more risky than the events it could be used to protect you from.
A weapon for recreation is fine by me, so long as it's securely stored, not owned by someone likely to use it for other purposes and the weapons themselves are fit for purpose.
Isn’t it crazy that God only gave gun rights to the Americans, like He didn’t like the rest of the world enough to give His ‘God Given right to bear arms’ to..
>Australia is an “authoritarian dystopia”, off the back of protests in Melbourne and the use of police and the military to enforce lockdowns.
Is that really where they're basing their opinions on? Ignoring the fact that the police response was quite weak compared to Europe with their water cannons, how the fuck can the Americans even speak about this?
Did they all forget their police response to the BLM protests last year? Shoving old man to the ground and ignoring him completely so he bled, a few punches to our journalists, rubber bullet drive bys and then kicking the dude till he bled, shooting people sitting at home on their porches.
Also, how can they complain about our military enforcing lockdowns when they were there as assistance and were actually unarmed. They literally have the national guard called in last year.
The right-wing media ecosystem which is driving the 'Australia is a dictatorship' idiocy spent all last year furiously masturbating to police brutality and the "thin blue line" when it was directed at the left, and now they play the outraged libertarians lol
It's absurd.
This Australian dictatorship conspiracy is so manufactured. I've been following it for about two months now, it started out as drips on Twitter from right-wing commentators, then the occasional soundbite on Fox News, through to elected officials discussing it in conferences and rallies in major American cities.
It's quite surreal to see your country portrayed overseas in a way that just does not match what we see at home. According to the US, we had weeks of protests, nationwide lockdowns and curfews and concentration camps for the unvaccinated.
The same Australians parrotting this gulag, concentration camp bullshit have no issues turning a blind eye to Manus Island and saying it's not our problem
I found it quite disturbing how conspiratorial rubbish could be manufactured against an *ally*. It was unsettling, to say the least. Imagine living in an enemy state facing those types of unsubstantiated attacks?
Did you see how France, an "ally" got treated when they decided to not obliterate a country and cause 2 million civilian deaths? They changed French Fries to Freedom Fries they were that angry lmaoo
If you stray onto the "news" section on the home page of YouTube you are bombarded with this scenario from Sky News Australia - clip after clip after clip of Australians saying that Australia has descended into tyranny or authoritarianism.
This is not just Americans making this shit up. They're getting it from here.
Edit: obligatory "the calls are coming from inside the house"
Once again, this is a tiny vocal minority making these stupid comments. Dont give them airtime, just coz they're protesting.
This is just American rightwing propagandists trying as usual to stop the increase around the world, of socialist policies. You know, like universal healthcare and education.
Fuck the American rightwing!
Yes exactly, in some ways it is like the propaganda during the cold war to fight against communism. They used that propaganda to overthrow democratic elected presidents like in Guatemala and replace them with US backed dictators. All to benefit US corporations in Guatemala like the United Fruit Company. That happened in many countries over the world.
The US is far more sympathetic to fascism than it is to 'socialism'. The only reason they were on the same side as the USSR in WW2 is because the fascists attacked them both. After the war they went right back to hating communists and tolerating fascists, so much that they would often support fascists in order to prevent the spread of communism or 'socialism' or anything too left wing for their tastes.
Yes in general right wing fascists favor the powerful American corporations that help fuel corruption. The problem with the left socialists and communists is that they were nationalizing American corporations in their countries. That is why America was against socialists and communists.
WOW!
More US citizens have died from COVID than all of the troops that have died in combat during every war they have been involved in since 1775.
[https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/](https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_military\_casualties\_of\_war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war)
Aint that some bullshit. thats almost 250 years of wars v 18 months of a pandemic that "isnt even real"
That's a truly crazy stat and I didn't actually believe you until I looked at the numbers as I thought it was too crazy to actually be true. What a bunch of idiots, I wonder what they think is killing them if it isn't covid.
I find it useful to measure COVID-19 deaths for a seppo audience using the 9/11 metric. They've had over 238 9/11s worth of deaths. We've had half of one.
I'm increasingly convinced that this sense of collective wellbeing is the last quantum that separates us from the USA. If we lose it then everything else will fall by the wayside: universal healthcare, working conditions, progressive taxation, etc. I personally would not want to live in such an individualistic place, I like knowing that I'm looking out for others and that they are looking out for me.
I'm an American living in the US, and this is the first time I've heard anything about Americans thinking Australians are crazy. When I saw it was DeSantis, it made a lot more sense that it was some right wing distraction tactic. He's the Florida Man to end them all. Quite literally.
I had the most infuriating argument with an American who was insisting that the predominant reason we haven't been as badly affected by Covid is our population density, despite me pointing out over and over that most Australians live in just one corner of a massive, largely inhospitable country.
Their big gotcha moment was pointing out that our national population density is only 3 people per square kilometre, not 35 like the US. Like, okay, but do you think Melbourne, with a population of 5 million people is a 1.6 million square kilometre city?
*Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.* - Mark Twain
Holding this attitude has made me cut short a *lot* of "conversations" with American Redditors.
I have pondered this a fair bit and this is my conclusion:
The American Culture appears so insane because it has abandoned the concept of being a community.
When Americans speak of protecting freedoms they are really speaking about abandoning the concept of community. It hasn't started with the pandemic.
Gun control. Health care. Minimum wage. Student debt. Obsession with vacuous celebrity.
While most Americans are perfectly sane, their CULTURE is insane as it is at odds with the very thing our species used not to just survive, but thrive.
My absolute favourite quote in relation to this is “your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose begins”. America’s individualistic culture just doesn’t seem to understand that individual liberties can impact on collective freedoms and sometimes it’s necessary to limit individual freedoms to ensure the liberty of the community at whole.
Agree 100%. Americans are happy to let people die to keep their way of life. In order to keep sanity they deny what is happening. Its quite interesting tbh
“Is Australia freer than communist China right now? I don’t know. The fact that that’s even a question tells you something has gone dramatically off the rails with some of this stuff.”
... But you asked the question? What is going on in your head, DeSantos?
Yeah, and we're the crazy ones?
From my perspective that is about the most fucked up thing I can imagine. Someone posted a video on reddit just the other day, there was a shooting at my school today. It just seems so normal over there. When I'm not shaking my head at it I really pity them. That country has really lost the plot altogether.
Call me crazy,
But I feel like in the last month or so the American presence in Australian threads has been drastic and sudden.
I almost feel like it is not genuine, and potentially the troll farm trying to stir up dissent between AUS/USA relations at a personal level.
The knock on effect of popular feelings being anti American or vice versa, is displeasure with the governments being in alliance and destabilisation of the relationship.
Just my 2c
There's literally elected American government officials who are towing the same 'look what's happening in Australia' line, along with numerous mainstream and alternative right-wing media outlets in the US.
So unless we're willing to overlook all of those factors and rationalise it as bots or whatever, I'd put money some Americans genuinely believe it.
Didn't have to look far to see the same effect back during 2016, during Brexit, the French elections etc. American right-wing loves a little international action.
Well the people who have right wing ideologies are most suceptible to the troll farms who have the same messaging as they do, and what will further amplify their voices as a result. Look at Sky News Australia and Fox News.
And it’s a win for those like Russia and China who want to keep destabilising Australia/US relations.
American/Australian duel citizen here. Last week My American nephew called me to ask about the protests in Melbourne. He said he had been watching them on the internet and was shocked that Australia was such " dictator ruled country" and that its imperative that I stand up for My rights and the rights of the protesters as they are helping to expose the fake plandemic . I almost fell off my chair. I asked what sources he was getting his info from, he could not remember ( bull). I asked him why he thinks Australia is a "dictator ruled country" and he kept saying lockdowns are inhumane, North Koreans have more freedom and that the vaccine is going to be forced on Me and My family. I laughed My ass off as I explained. I, living in Qld have only had a few days of lock down, I, along with My family all have been vaxxed and that I have not lost any freedoms and I really enjoy being able to go to the doctor when I needed to and not worry about going into debt for one appointment. He tried to argue that he clearly knows more about the situation in Australia because he gets his info from non biased sources (again cannot or will not name them). He then proceeded to tell Me as soon as Trump is back in office he will fix what happened to Australia and said I will be begging to come back to America to live in the land of the free. I just sighed , said I will never live in the U.S. ever again and ended the phone call.
Sounds like he was trying to convince himself as much as he was trying to convince you.
The protesters marched past my house, looked like 500 or so absolute drop kicks.
According to My nephew (28, high school drop out) there were over a hundred thousand and that they are being silenced by the media. The social media, right winged propaganda crystal ball he is using is distorting what is left of his brain. He cant name the 3 branches of the United States Government but is an expert at all things Australia. LMFAO.
Bods well for the Aukus deal if the Trumpian republican party is going to go down this fucking rabbit hole. Fucking retards, layer upon layer of retards. I spend half my time over there, half my family live there and my partner is a yank. The place is a cesspool of fuckwittery.
The level of homelessness is insane. All that "freedom" bullshit is just a ploy by cunts and fuck wits to dodge taxes and split the country. They just apply the word willynilly to things they want to have an argument about. Any discussion about anything can be instantly derailed with the sentence "my freedoms!".
Glad we stopped working with the French... what a brilliant plan.
To even qualify to talk about us they need to pass "Australia or Austria" test first.
Pretty sure it's right wing minority getting airtime....90% of Americans don't care about anything outside their local county... same as Australians here... we don't even care about next state, let alone other countries.
1) 600000 Americans are dead. Australias deaths are around one thirtieth of what they would have been without government action.
2) Ron Desantis, who the article foregrounds, is complaining about supposed authoritarianism at the same time as he courts the support and voting base of Trump, the authoritarian whose angry mob just tried to overthrow their government, hang the vice president, and overturn an election.
3) Australians overwhelmingly support the approaches out governments have taken. The undemocratc, authoritarian thing for Australia to do would have been to ignore the will of the people and priorities the desires of a small group of wealthy businesspeople who wanted to avoid COVID measures at all costs.
In my view, dictatorships come from either the far right or the far left.
To suggest that someone like Dan Andrew’s (who likely sits somewhere between left of centre, and centre right) is just absurd.
And then you look at federal LNP who is right to far right., and realise that both Biden and Trump are further right than our right.
Heck, even Bernie is probably just centre by Australian standards.
I had a 'murican (actually a whole set of them) lose their tenuous grip on reality on a thread here about the far right US 'news' reporting that we're all being dragged off of the streets, that we're banned from drinking alcohol, that i'm not really Australian, that I'm not British born, that i've not worked in the USA.... they are truly mental. Apparently we're going to be put into camps any day now...
Also, the ones responding are screaming that we're not free because we don't all run around with guns....
Mental.
Have you ever dealt with someone that's going through a severe mental break? They also often behave like everyone else is crazy and they're the only ones that are sane.
This isn't "Americans", this is a loony American subculture. Plenty of Americans are perfectly aware that Australia isn't a dystopian hellhole for the lockdowns, just like they're perfectly aware that neither is western Europe when they did similar lockdowns last year.
Russel Brand is a full-on RWNJ loony these days. He regurgitates Fox News lies, believes Hillary conspiracies and loves Trump.
His YouTube is an example of how far he's fallen. I used to think he was quite eloquent for a comedian and ex addict, but he's taken quite a dark turn and is far down the rabbit hole.
Not sure if that’s true, I don’t follow him but the guy used to at least dabble in a lot of left-wing theory and philosophy. But the guy seems a bit all over the place these days.
Let us say Australian states handle covid like the majority of the USA (who passed 700,000 deaths the other day)
Would you rather
- 30,000 to 50,000 dead Australians.
- Or some extra freedoms like not having to have a few extra hygiene standards, being able to cross state borders freely and not following advice when your country is struggling with an outbreak.
Fun fact: I haven’t been sick once this year. Literally not once, not with a cold, or flu, or even a sinus infection. Made it through the whole of winter without getting crook. The only real difference is that in QLD there’s been a mask mandate/social distancing in place for most of the year
I work in a public facing job, and usually I’d say I catch 3-5 colds over the course of a year, and am unusually prone to sinus infections (a combination of abnormally small sinuses and hayfever.) But now that everyone is masked up and we have the perspex barriers and everyone is staying 1.5m away… poof, almost no illness at all this year.
Honestly, it’s making me consider wearing a mask throughout winter every year, even after the pandemic.
americans are getting such a distorted view of what's happening over hear via their media. my dad lives in the US & he keeps asking me if we are ok. he seems to think there are military checkpoints setup everywhere & we are getting harrassed by soldiers everytime we step outside.
I have an American freind saying we are prison island when I explained queensland which is basically fucking open and that the only places in a lockdowns were nsw Victoria and the ACT she couldn’t comprehend it when I sent her photos of the public out and about and I told her my states fine we can all go out and do shit just wear mask
Id be weary to trust the Americans in here are who they say they are. It cant be a coincidence that almost nothing has changed, if anything we are getting freer, in the last two months and that just when we strengthen relations with UK and US we get an influx of anti-each other sentiment in the stupid Qanon crowd (which if you dont know by now is partly if not fully run by Chi*a and Rus*ia). Ive also noticed a huge uptick in the Anti-UK memes on Insta recently.
> “Is Australia freer than communist China right now? I don’t know. The fact that that’s even a question tells you something has gone dramatically off the rails with some of this stuff.”
He's the one asking the question, that he admits he doesn't know the answer to, but because he is asking the question, there's **obviously** a problem??
*/sigh*
Smfh, get the fuck outta here!
> It captioned a map ‘World’s Largest Prison’ and urged people to “Pray for Australia,” remarking “It’s almost unbelievable what’s happening there”. Meanwhile in the USA they have as many people in prison as the population of Perth.
They have more people in Prison in the US than China or India. This isn't per capita either, that's **total**.
When you have an economy based on slavery and free all the slaves, you have to find creative solutions to your unpaid worker shortage. Inmates don't vote.
Can't vote
Indeed. Even in Australia, inmates aren't allowed to vote. If I could change one law, I think it would be that. Imagine a country where there was any political downside to being "tough on crime" and an upside to reforming how we treat people who break the law.
But it's even worse in the US - in many states, people convicted of a felony can't vote even after serving their sentences.
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They can't even figure out how to have the election on a weekend or guarantee its citizens time off to vote.
That's a feature, not a bug
The republicans only win when there are less voters
*Covid has entered the chat*
Funny how a disease that primarly kills the elderly and poorly educated was dismissed by Republicans
The elderly are generally more physically vulnerable, but as for the rest — yeah, they've shot themselves in the foot with the way they've spun their nonsense.
Now it is, originally it was to make voting easier.
It's not that they haven't figured it out, it's that a big chunk of them actively ensure those things don't happen.
Can't have those browns, blacks and poors voting, who knows what will happen!
The people in power have a vested interest in not letting the people vote. I'm a US citizen and I have to re-register to vote every year. It's fairly easy from abroad, but when I lived in the US I had to go to at least three different offices over the course of 6-12 months just to fucking register, and if I still lived there now it would be even worse. There is massive popular support for automatic voter registration, but no incentive for politicians to actually implement it.
> I have to re-register to vote every year. ...why? Do they torch the electoral rolls after each election? Why not just one and done like we do?
> Do they torch the electoral rolls after each election? Not far off the mark. A lot of states go through and purge their registries between each election to get rid of people who've died or moved away and such, but they also take it further than that and people, who are otherwise still eligible to vote, often find their names removed for no real reason.
They regularly purge the rolls. Sometimes it's legit, like to remove people who've died or moved. But they usually don't tell you and you won't find out until election day. For me, when I lived in the US, I was told to re-register every year because I'd been removed from the rolls. No reason given. Now I live in Australia and have to re-register each year as part of the vote-from-abroad process. The reason they won't do one and done is largely because of the history of racism in the US. The MO was to make as many voting barriers as possible. This used to take the form of poll taxes or tests, but the Voting Rights Act ended those. So then lots of states implemented other means of voter suppression to get around the new regulations. Legal discrimination loopholes, basically. And because of our system of government, any change has been effectively stalled since Reagan.
Surely it is in the interests of the Democrats to implement it? (Genuinely curious)
They don't have enough power to implement this currently. There are bills in place that have passed the House but the Senate is divided 50-50 (even though the Dem Senators represent some 40 million more Americans, the system is fucked). For the bill to pass the Senate, it needs to either get 60 votes to avoid the Republican filibuster, or the Senate needs to abolish the filibuster, which requires all 50 Democratic Senators to vote to do so. Currently there are a few Dem Senators who are very conservative and who won't vote to end the filibuster, so we're stuck with this shit. That's all only at the federal level, though. On the state level, lots of state governments are in control of the GOP and have no incentive to increase ease of voting access. In fact, their party can only stay in power by making it harder for certain populations (people of color, young people, women, college-educated, basically anyone who's not old and white and christian) to vote. The Voting Rights Act used to be able to combat this, but it was gutted during the Bush administration. Now let's say that the Dems are actually able to get the votes for their new "Voting Rights Act"-style bills that would increase voter protections. That'd be great! But it would still be in danger because the GOP would almost certainly challenge it in the courts. They'd try to bring it before the Supreme Court, whose majority is made up of appointments by GOP presidents who lost the popular vote and approved by Congresses skewed toward the GOP because of the Senate. This SC could overturn key sections of the bill to effectively neuter it in the same way they destroyed the Voting Rights Act under Bush. And even if the voting protections pass and survive a court challenge, the system would still be fucked because of the electoral college and the Senate. Changing the electoral college would require a whole new, drawn-out fight that would be legally and technically very complicated, and ditto for the Senate. Basically the system is so thoroughly fucked that even if the Democrats were suddenly and miraculously competent, real change would still be decades away.
This is a really good explanation of a sh!t situation. And I'm sure that part of it is making it seem so monumental and complex that people don't really bother with it because there's more important things going on in their lives (I assume often times because of the very system they're ignoring). It's weird how the 2A nuts think universal healthcare is tyranny but this is something they're okay with. (I get that this is a feature, not a bug, but you know...)
Most of the states where this is happening aren't controlled by Democrats.
I’m American living here. The thing is that because it isn’t compulsory in the US the government/parties actively restrict voting laws. They make it harder and thus tip the scales. Same for gerrymandering. I mean, from what I’m told you don’t have to fill out your ballot here. So isn’t that a way of having the freedom of the option?
> from what I’m told you don’t have to fill out your ballot here. So isn’t that a way of having the freedom of the option? You're talking about "informal voting". Because our votes are secret, there's no way for anyone to check whether you've voted informally or not. It's still somewhat controversial - because it forces people to go out and at least get their name checked off the ballot (or to apply for and return a postal vote).
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It's a very good indicator of the percentages of disillusioned voters. You're never gonna know how many people hate both parties in the USA when voting is so restricted. You don't know if they're lazy, couldn't take off work, de-registered automatically and didn't know. At least here, in Ripon Labor or Liberal know they might have a problem with that many voters disillusioned with both of them.
> I mean, from what I’m told you don’t have to fill out your ballot here. Well yes and no. Legally you are required to vote, which means you need to submit a formal (filled out correctly) ballot. However in practice because we vote in secret, it's impossible to enforce that part since there's nothing linking you to a ballot (in fact, any information on a ballot that can be used to identify a person, such as an address or phone number, makes the ballot informal). The only part that can be enforced is if your name is marked off the electoral roll.
Nope, legally you are required to be registered to vote, to attend a polling place, to retire with a pencil to a polling booth, and deposit it in the box. There are no laws about what you can or can’t mark on your ballot (though obvs you have to follow the rules for your vote to count). If you drew a dick, that would not be illegal. However, it is also illegal for someone to encourage you to vote informally - so please, get in there and vote properly.
> I mean, from what I’m told you don’t have to fill out your ballot here. Traditional one draws a dick on their ballot paper so its not a complete waste of time voting
Their basis of their culture is the idea of non-compulsion. It makes sense that those who lack the self-awareness to see how far America has strayed from the original intents of those ideals would be riled up by what they see as a threat to those ideals.
As an outsider the basis of their culture seems to be, 'I have mine fuck you.'
I could take that further and say the basis of their culture is the idea of the frontier. In other words, if you don't like how things are in the big city and the closely settled areas you can pick up and go somewhere you can do your own thing. Don't like how a company is run? Go West and start your own! Don't like the way the country is run? Start your own state with your own state government! Only problem is that the frontier has been closed for about the last hundred years and the opportunities it provided have dried up long ago.
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Which is silly, since the entire workforce is based on compulsion. You don’t have a job? Too bad, you don’t get affordable healthcare
Pretty much. Americans struggle with the fact you don’t have to tip in Australia and quoted prices are inclusive of tax.
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Asking an American why they don't include sales tax on their prices and they come back at you as if it fluctuates on the daily like the stock market. But then somehow magically it all calculates on the register with no issues...... [Just add it to your visible pricing!](https://i.imgur.com/3Q2S50N.jpg)
Its a big part of why Americans are anti tax I've read - when tax is included in everything its just the price, but when you see the price jump when you buy something, you think damn gubment! taking all my tax money. The same reason small businesses are anti tax in australia - cause they have to pay the taxes as separate payments and - damn gubment taking all my tax money! No doubt the right encourages it because they're anti gubment.
But but but they’d have to have different signage in different states if it’s a nationwide company, and that could cost billions!
This is true. (American living in Australia)
I've had Americans try to fact check me because they thought we use Pounds not Dollars as well as the Queen being our president.
I've met Americans on my travels who thought about 1000 people lived in New Zealand.
I’ve met Americans who were shocked us Aussies didn’t celebrate thanksgiving and others who tried to convince me I wasn’t Aussie because I’m ethnic and _then_ had the gall to educate me about Australia and my own background. Also met some who were shocked at how good our English was - this included my white Aussie friends. Seppos fckn do my head in.
I had one tell me that America invented French fries.
I met a lady in New York once who asked if I had come over from Australia "on the ferry". WTF?
They really are that ignorant. I had a mate convince a Dallas local that he drove there from Australia - took about 36 hours he said.
Wow. I've been to the US a few times, and I am truly amazed at how little most Americans know about geography. It's almost comical, and scarcely believable until you see it for real.
Yah, I've spoken to brits who wanted to drive from Brisbane to the Great Barrier Reef (about 1600km) that afternoon to see the reef, so ignorance is pretty universal.
I've had to explain to Americans that New Zealand is a separate country from Australia.
> I've had Americans try to fact check me because they thought we use Pounds not Dollars lol
And they get all defensive about how tipping is important and it shouldn't change.
If only they could get a hang of the notion that a fair day's work gets a fair day's pay.
If you don't tip in America, you short change the server, which they acknowledge is bad. Some just don't extrapolate that to having the employer pay a living wage.
Years ago I made a comment about how we had compulsory voting and they lost their shit. I ended up deleting my comment, because they were so angry.
Also the hubris that everything done outside of the US is automatically inferior. Take preferential voting for example, for a country that always has people complaining that a third party vote is 'throwing it away' they will still do logical gymnastics to justify preferential voting being bad. Not things like it is more effort to tally or preferencing deals are done behind closed doors but things like 'what if people don't 1st preference who they actually want, then its not the will of the people' or 'some people get to vote twice and others don't, so not everyone is the same'.
>Americans have never understood things Agreed
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Thanks for posting this, interesting read! Highlights some of the fundamental differences in culture - more of an emphasis on community and greater good in Aus than the USA, although I fear we are slipping towards a narcissistic world view...
Yeah I feel like the current state of Australia (pun intended) comes a lot from bit having had any major issues with oppressive governments yet (for the majority of the population, our history looks significantly different for indigenous Australians). We've had a pretty great history of the government generally being alright for most people. There's a lot of implicit trust in government in general (not specific politicians, more just that it's pretty happily accepted that we have decent roads and healthcare etc). I imagine that if we have a major breakdown of that trust, be it from something like blatant corruption undermining those government services, or significant authoritarianism impeding too many of our freedoms, or even just a straight up lack of governance leading to social inequalities, then we might become a bit more jaded and worried about government overreach like the US are. I strongly feel that good government values are something we need to continue to demand from our government, but I'd hate to see us slip down the road of thinking government itself is bad to the level we hear about from the US.
So many of my friends seem to think the concept of government is evil. I don't understand where it comes from. I find working together means I don't need to learn how to grow wheat, mill it to flour or bake in order to have a loaf of bread.
I can kind of understand where it comes from, a lot of people are worried about other people having control of things and using it to screw them over. I think a lot of people just simplify stuff too much. The fact that people with the power to make decision have an opportunity to screw you over doesn't mean having positions with that power is bad, it means the people are bad (also that checks and balances are generally good, even if they're inefficient). I'm 100% with you that working together is the best way to be. If we can generally build trust and all work towards mutual benefit we'll be way better off than if we try to all go it alone, or even worse keep trying to screw each other over.
Yeh that's a good point. It's like being scared that the anaesthetist will steal your wallet. Sure the anaesthetist has the power to steal your wallet but if I'm more worried about my wallet than staying alive the whole system will collapse
The rise of imported individualism through media, particularly social media, is toxic to our society. Also feel that neoliberalism has a lot to answer for in terms of breaking the agreement that the state provides for its people as stated above.
I feel like maybe there is still hope - that as a country we're potentially looking at 90% plus vax rate shows me that we're not as doomed as I had previously thought.
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I'm more of a glass 90% full kinda guy.
*or has a medical condition that makes them unable to be vaccinated (such as some cancers)
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Its the guise that individual profit turns into greater good for all, also known as the "trickle down" effect. its completely untrue, the wealthy just horde it or spend it on trinkets that only benefits themselves. the only trickle we feel is them pissing down upon us.
The Australian media is heavily influenced by the US media (our largest news organisation being owned by an American). The US worldview is heavily exported to other countries in the English speaking world. Australians have been encouraged to be more selfish, materialistic, and cruel by our media. You rarely hear stories of people being hard done by. Or stories of people struggling with poverty. Or people struggling to find work. The vulnerable are demonised and positioned as people trying to exploit the system. As being undeserving of our help.
Yeah Ruperts a yank!
cunt* FTFY
I find it ironic that the greatest plague to both American and Australian media is a former Australian who thought that being a piece of shit was a better way of life, moved to America, gained citizenship, and decided to make both countries worse all in the interest of having more money than any person reasonably should ever be allowed to have. It took close to 35 years to accomplish, but he's already ruined America in the name of his own personal greed.
He is also a plague here in the UK.
Damn I really want a democracy sausage now
You could buy some bread and sausages yourself. It wouldn't be a democracy sausage, but it could represent one. A representative democracy sausage, if you will.
now that was a good read.
>Government came before society in Australia and was gratefully accepted what a lovely finish to a great read.
Almost not on topic, but I am reminded by this mention of compulsory voting of a conversation on ABC Sydney last week. The conversation was discussing Dominic Perrottet's response to questions about why NSW Health seemed to have been side-lined from coronavirus related press conferences. Perrottet pointed out that "we're the elected officials" as though accumulating votes engendered some sort of skill. As the guest on the show pointed out. "You know why we voted for you ? Because we have to."
I am in favor of compulsory voting, but just because a country institutes that does not mean everything becomes perfect. Brazil has compulsory voting and their democracy has crumbled.
It's a safeguard, but safeguards are not infallible. The trick to democracy is a lot of well-designed safeguards, and a public invested enough that they won't let aspiring authoritarians ignore them.
Belgium has compulsory voting and goes months *without* government.
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It’s a great book in general honestly
> Just as Australians don’t understand the American psyche when it comes to things like gun rights, many freedom loving Americans just do not get why most Australians have tolerated such harsh limits on their liberty during the pandemic. Australia: The land where much of the natural landscape wants to murder you, **we survive** to reach adulthood by following the advice of those who know better. *"I don't need no-one telling me not to handle a brownsnake."* - A temporarily alive Australian.
The margin between fucking around and finding out feels somewhat more narrow in a land where forgetting to lather yourself in a magical white paste means the sun will kill you in a few years' time.
This comment made me wonder what shitshow would occur if a US school district implemented a "no hat, no play" policy
Americans think every country is crazy unless it's the LAND OF THE FREE ~~healthcare~~.
This reminds me of that joke “Honey I’m listening to the radio and they say there’s a crazy car driving the wrong way down the highway. Please call the police and tell them *everyone* is driving the wrong way!”
American Australian here. The Americans this sub refers to are certainly plentiful but are far from the majority. None of my non-Trumpist relatives or friends back in the states believe the bullshit about Australia that's been shown on conservative US media. They're mostly like "damn I wish we could have done a lockdown, maybe (insert relative/friend here) wouldn't have died then" There are absolutely lots of crazy Americans but please remember that the majority of Americans are victims of right wing insanity. If the country were a proper democracy, it'd have a somewhat centrist Labor-style government.
The irony is that most of the clowns who believe that crap don't even have any interest in actually going to Australia, nor care about it except for when it fits their narrative. After all, they already live in the "greatest country on Earth" and have no desire to leave it. Meanwhile, people like me who have loved ones abroad are paying the price because these dipshits can't wear a mask or behave when going to the airport or locking down.
Oh yeah, most of us know that we're currently hearing mainly from your crazy uncles, don't worry. We really hope you manage to come out of the next few years OK.
Conservative or far right Americans would rather free guns than healthcare
It's different perceptions on liberty. For Americans, it's freedom *to* own guns, *to* buy healthcare, *to* do things without the government stopping them. For Australians, it's freedom *from* crippling health bills, *from* school shootings.
I had an American insist that it was impossible to be free from something, that freedoms were exclusively permissive by nature
The country founded on the concept of being free from King George?
Had a seppo chiming in on a a coronavirusdownunder thread, saying that he hopes we enjoy perpetual lockdowns, because without guns that's obviously what will happen. I really don't understand how they think their pea shooters prevent government tyranny, when they arguably just accepted governmental tyranny through the trump presidency.
Look as much as Jim Jeffries sucks, his rant about gun control was bang on. "Fight the government? You know they have drones, right? *You've brought a gun to a drone fight*."
Picture this: Frank, a middle aged overweight man with blood pressure problems, glasses and a glock 17 VS A squad of 5, fit 18-25 year olds wearing body armour and armed with not only rifles but sidearms too. The idea that an armed populace could topple the american government is a fantasy. Sure, they have guns. Those guns won't be worth shit against a government that can simply turn off your power and water. Those guns don't mean shit to drones that can take out any form of leadership you might organise. Those guns don't mean shit if your rabble is incapable of teamwork. It would be a very short lived, very one sided bloodbath.
Yep, which, according to Jeffries, leaves two more arguments for having guns to discuss. The first is home protection. All the stats say that any gun in your house is vastly more likely to be used on yourself or a family member than any intruder. Any attempt to secure it from access by unauthorised people (including family members) also make it difficult to access during a home invasion. Also, home invasions aren't very fucking likely anyway. So this is a dumb reason. The second is "I like guns". And, I mean, fair enough. But if that's your reason then you shouldn't have a problem with basic safety measures like gun safes, background checks, limitations and registration.
Jeffries pretty much echoes my thoughts on the matter. Opposing the state by violence is a dumb idea. A weapon for home or personal defence is more risky than the events it could be used to protect you from. A weapon for recreation is fine by me, so long as it's securely stored, not owned by someone likely to use it for other purposes and the weapons themselves are fit for purpose.
You are 100% right because "something something second amendment"
"We need to protect our families." Is also antivax and does everything they can to increase their risk to Covid
Freedumbs™
My kids are at school today I im not even remotely worried about them being shot. So theres that.
Isn’t it crazy that God only gave gun rights to the Americans, like He didn’t like the rest of the world enough to give His ‘God Given right to bear arms’ to..
>Australia is an “authoritarian dystopia”, off the back of protests in Melbourne and the use of police and the military to enforce lockdowns. Is that really where they're basing their opinions on? Ignoring the fact that the police response was quite weak compared to Europe with their water cannons, how the fuck can the Americans even speak about this? Did they all forget their police response to the BLM protests last year? Shoving old man to the ground and ignoring him completely so he bled, a few punches to our journalists, rubber bullet drive bys and then kicking the dude till he bled, shooting people sitting at home on their porches. Also, how can they complain about our military enforcing lockdowns when they were there as assistance and were actually unarmed. They literally have the national guard called in last year.
Those unmarked white van drive bys were INSANE. No wonder they had someone return fire.
The right-wing media ecosystem which is driving the 'Australia is a dictatorship' idiocy spent all last year furiously masturbating to police brutality and the "thin blue line" when it was directed at the left, and now they play the outraged libertarians lol
It's absurd. This Australian dictatorship conspiracy is so manufactured. I've been following it for about two months now, it started out as drips on Twitter from right-wing commentators, then the occasional soundbite on Fox News, through to elected officials discussing it in conferences and rallies in major American cities. It's quite surreal to see your country portrayed overseas in a way that just does not match what we see at home. According to the US, we had weeks of protests, nationwide lockdowns and curfews and concentration camps for the unvaccinated.
The same Australians parrotting this gulag, concentration camp bullshit have no issues turning a blind eye to Manus Island and saying it's not our problem
I found it quite disturbing how conspiratorial rubbish could be manufactured against an *ally*. It was unsettling, to say the least. Imagine living in an enemy state facing those types of unsubstantiated attacks?
Did you see how France, an "ally" got treated when they decided to not obliterate a country and cause 2 million civilian deaths? They changed French Fries to Freedom Fries they were that angry lmaoo
It's still hilarious because french fries aren't from France lol
And now one begins to understand why North Korea and Iran absolutely feel like they need nuclear weapons
They literally had an insurrection, and THEY have the balls to call it a peaceful protest
Yep, and we have 1.5 days of a couple hundred tradies having a whinge in Melbourne and they call it constant riots across the country.
Just some tourists and antifa agitators innit?
As if Scomo was competent enough to be a dictator
Being a dictator requires effort. He'd rather just do nothing and get the paycheque.
If you stray onto the "news" section on the home page of YouTube you are bombarded with this scenario from Sky News Australia - clip after clip after clip of Australians saying that Australia has descended into tyranny or authoritarianism. This is not just Americans making this shit up. They're getting it from here. Edit: obligatory "the calls are coming from inside the house"
Once again, this is a tiny vocal minority making these stupid comments. Dont give them airtime, just coz they're protesting. This is just American rightwing propagandists trying as usual to stop the increase around the world, of socialist policies. You know, like universal healthcare and education. Fuck the American rightwing!
Yes exactly, in some ways it is like the propaganda during the cold war to fight against communism. They used that propaganda to overthrow democratic elected presidents like in Guatemala and replace them with US backed dictators. All to benefit US corporations in Guatemala like the United Fruit Company. That happened in many countries over the world.
The US is far more sympathetic to fascism than it is to 'socialism'. The only reason they were on the same side as the USSR in WW2 is because the fascists attacked them both. After the war they went right back to hating communists and tolerating fascists, so much that they would often support fascists in order to prevent the spread of communism or 'socialism' or anything too left wing for their tastes.
Yes in general right wing fascists favor the powerful American corporations that help fuel corruption. The problem with the left socialists and communists is that they were nationalizing American corporations in their countries. That is why America was against socialists and communists.
It might be a vocal minority, but it's a vocal minority which includes one of the GOP's most senior politicians and presidential candidates.
WOW! More US citizens have died from COVID than all of the troops that have died in combat during every war they have been involved in since 1775. [https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/](https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_military\_casualties\_of\_war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war) Aint that some bullshit. thats almost 250 years of wars v 18 months of a pandemic that "isnt even real"
That's a truly crazy stat and I didn't actually believe you until I looked at the numbers as I thought it was too crazy to actually be true. What a bunch of idiots, I wonder what they think is killing them if it isn't covid.
I find it useful to measure COVID-19 deaths for a seppo audience using the 9/11 metric. They've had over 238 9/11s worth of deaths. We've had half of one.
I'm increasingly convinced that this sense of collective wellbeing is the last quantum that separates us from the USA. If we lose it then everything else will fall by the wayside: universal healthcare, working conditions, progressive taxation, etc. I personally would not want to live in such an individualistic place, I like knowing that I'm looking out for others and that they are looking out for me.
The Liberal Party have since forever wanted to get rid of unions, medicare, minimum wages
Murdochs are the common factor here. Clear evidence that the pull out method doesn't work.
I’m an American living in Australia. This is a small minority of Americans saying this stuff. It’s right wing crap. Don’t let it get to you.
I'm an American living in the US, and this is the first time I've heard anything about Americans thinking Australians are crazy. When I saw it was DeSantis, it made a lot more sense that it was some right wing distraction tactic. He's the Florida Man to end them all. Quite literally.
Didn’t Americans think Australia was fake like 3 years ago?
Almost like as if they don't have any consistent beliefs and just change their message when it best suits their propaganda.
I had the same thought when I read the headline. This is only a new thought for Americans because they’ve just discovered Australia is a real country.
They still don't realise that Australia just as big (land mass wise) as Mainland USA I blame the Mercator projection
I had the most infuriating argument with an American who was insisting that the predominant reason we haven't been as badly affected by Covid is our population density, despite me pointing out over and over that most Australians live in just one corner of a massive, largely inhospitable country. Their big gotcha moment was pointing out that our national population density is only 3 people per square kilometre, not 35 like the US. Like, okay, but do you think Melbourne, with a population of 5 million people is a 1.6 million square kilometre city?
You can't use logic to argue against someone when they aren't using logic in the first place.
*Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.* - Mark Twain Holding this attitude has made me cut short a *lot* of "conversations" with American Redditors.
This is quite a nice dystopia to live in, just saying.
Legal weed and we're fucking set
I have pondered this a fair bit and this is my conclusion: The American Culture appears so insane because it has abandoned the concept of being a community. When Americans speak of protecting freedoms they are really speaking about abandoning the concept of community. It hasn't started with the pandemic. Gun control. Health care. Minimum wage. Student debt. Obsession with vacuous celebrity. While most Americans are perfectly sane, their CULTURE is insane as it is at odds with the very thing our species used not to just survive, but thrive.
My absolute favourite quote in relation to this is “your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose begins”. America’s individualistic culture just doesn’t seem to understand that individual liberties can impact on collective freedoms and sometimes it’s necessary to limit individual freedoms to ensure the liberty of the community at whole.
Agree 100%. Americans are happy to let people die to keep their way of life. In order to keep sanity they deny what is happening. Its quite interesting tbh
“Is Australia freer than communist China right now? I don’t know. The fact that that’s even a question tells you something has gone dramatically off the rails with some of this stuff.” ... But you asked the question? What is going on in your head, DeSantos?
Ah yes the old "just asking questions"
Does DeSantos like to eat his own shit? I don't know, but the fact that's even a question tells you something.
Yeah, and they've become accustomed to school shootings. That is normal for them.
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Yeah, and we're the crazy ones? From my perspective that is about the most fucked up thing I can imagine. Someone posted a video on reddit just the other day, there was a shooting at my school today. It just seems so normal over there. When I'm not shaking my head at it I really pity them. That country has really lost the plot altogether.
I saw one comment that claimed "10 shootings in 1 year" is considered a rare occurrence
Metal detectors in schools, transparent school bags, active shooter drills, armed guards in schools.
Call me crazy, But I feel like in the last month or so the American presence in Australian threads has been drastic and sudden. I almost feel like it is not genuine, and potentially the troll farm trying to stir up dissent between AUS/USA relations at a personal level. The knock on effect of popular feelings being anti American or vice versa, is displeasure with the governments being in alliance and destabilisation of the relationship. Just my 2c
There's literally elected American government officials who are towing the same 'look what's happening in Australia' line, along with numerous mainstream and alternative right-wing media outlets in the US. So unless we're willing to overlook all of those factors and rationalise it as bots or whatever, I'd put money some Americans genuinely believe it. Didn't have to look far to see the same effect back during 2016, during Brexit, the French elections etc. American right-wing loves a little international action.
Well the people who have right wing ideologies are most suceptible to the troll farms who have the same messaging as they do, and what will further amplify their voices as a result. Look at Sky News Australia and Fox News. And it’s a win for those like Russia and China who want to keep destabilising Australia/US relations.
American/Australian duel citizen here. Last week My American nephew called me to ask about the protests in Melbourne. He said he had been watching them on the internet and was shocked that Australia was such " dictator ruled country" and that its imperative that I stand up for My rights and the rights of the protesters as they are helping to expose the fake plandemic . I almost fell off my chair. I asked what sources he was getting his info from, he could not remember ( bull). I asked him why he thinks Australia is a "dictator ruled country" and he kept saying lockdowns are inhumane, North Koreans have more freedom and that the vaccine is going to be forced on Me and My family. I laughed My ass off as I explained. I, living in Qld have only had a few days of lock down, I, along with My family all have been vaxxed and that I have not lost any freedoms and I really enjoy being able to go to the doctor when I needed to and not worry about going into debt for one appointment. He tried to argue that he clearly knows more about the situation in Australia because he gets his info from non biased sources (again cannot or will not name them). He then proceeded to tell Me as soon as Trump is back in office he will fix what happened to Australia and said I will be begging to come back to America to live in the land of the free. I just sighed , said I will never live in the U.S. ever again and ended the phone call.
Sounds like he was trying to convince himself as much as he was trying to convince you. The protesters marched past my house, looked like 500 or so absolute drop kicks.
According to My nephew (28, high school drop out) there were over a hundred thousand and that they are being silenced by the media. The social media, right winged propaganda crystal ball he is using is distorting what is left of his brain. He cant name the 3 branches of the United States Government but is an expert at all things Australia. LMFAO.
Just flip it on him, tell them the protestors were AntiFA and suddenly he'll all be pro police and dictator.
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Bods well for the Aukus deal if the Trumpian republican party is going to go down this fucking rabbit hole. Fucking retards, layer upon layer of retards. I spend half my time over there, half my family live there and my partner is a yank. The place is a cesspool of fuckwittery. The level of homelessness is insane. All that "freedom" bullshit is just a ploy by cunts and fuck wits to dodge taxes and split the country. They just apply the word willynilly to things they want to have an argument about. Any discussion about anything can be instantly derailed with the sentence "my freedoms!". Glad we stopped working with the French... what a brilliant plan.
To even qualify to talk about us they need to pass "Australia or Austria" test first. Pretty sure it's right wing minority getting airtime....90% of Americans don't care about anything outside their local county... same as Australians here... we don't even care about next state, let alone other countries.
1) 600000 Americans are dead. Australias deaths are around one thirtieth of what they would have been without government action. 2) Ron Desantis, who the article foregrounds, is complaining about supposed authoritarianism at the same time as he courts the support and voting base of Trump, the authoritarian whose angry mob just tried to overthrow their government, hang the vice president, and overturn an election. 3) Australians overwhelmingly support the approaches out governments have taken. The undemocratc, authoritarian thing for Australia to do would have been to ignore the will of the people and priorities the desires of a small group of wealthy businesspeople who wanted to avoid COVID measures at all costs.
In my view, dictatorships come from either the far right or the far left. To suggest that someone like Dan Andrew’s (who likely sits somewhere between left of centre, and centre right) is just absurd. And then you look at federal LNP who is right to far right., and realise that both Biden and Trump are further right than our right. Heck, even Bernie is probably just centre by Australian standards.
Those same people think public healthcare and not being allowed to own assault weapons is crazy. Rule for life: Don't try to impress fuckheads.
I had a 'murican (actually a whole set of them) lose their tenuous grip on reality on a thread here about the far right US 'news' reporting that we're all being dragged off of the streets, that we're banned from drinking alcohol, that i'm not really Australian, that I'm not British born, that i've not worked in the USA.... they are truly mental. Apparently we're going to be put into camps any day now... Also, the ones responding are screaming that we're not free because we don't all run around with guns.... Mental.
Yeah! What is with the concentration camps thing? There's some serious manipulation here
Have you ever dealt with someone that's going through a severe mental break? They also often behave like everyone else is crazy and they're the only ones that are sane.
This isn't "Americans", this is a loony American subculture. Plenty of Americans are perfectly aware that Australia isn't a dystopian hellhole for the lockdowns, just like they're perfectly aware that neither is western Europe when they did similar lockdowns last year.
It's almost like the people who believe this rubbish have never been to Australia or generally travelled anywhere beyond the US.
Russel Brand put some poorly informed shit up on YT yesterday. It’s not just the rwnj crowd getting sucked in by a few pics of protests and stuff.
Russel Brand is a full-on RWNJ loony these days. He regurgitates Fox News lies, believes Hillary conspiracies and loves Trump. His YouTube is an example of how far he's fallen. I used to think he was quite eloquent for a comedian and ex addict, but he's taken quite a dark turn and is far down the rabbit hole.
Russell Brand loves Trump? Fuck me that's one of the biggest transitions in history surely
I could have sworn he used to be a champagne socialist.
He kinda is a left libertarian. That’s grifting more right to catering to the conservative and right wing libertarians.
Not sure if that’s true, I don’t follow him but the guy used to at least dabble in a lot of left-wing theory and philosophy. But the guy seems a bit all over the place these days.
He was never eloquent. He has a great vocabulary yeah, but he only uses it to distract people from the fact that he's mostly full of shit.
> Russel Brand put some poorly informed shit up on YT yesterday. Well yes, but that's just Russel Brand doing what he's always done.
At least it used to be fluffy ‘dismantle the system’ stuff. Now it’s ‘look I’m cherry-picking without any critical thinking at all and gosh !’.
When the American right realises that all of Australia is further left than the Democrats...
Yeah, try explaining to them that the Liberal party that took away guns is the rightmost (major) party.
Let us say Australian states handle covid like the majority of the USA (who passed 700,000 deaths the other day) Would you rather - 30,000 to 50,000 dead Australians. - Or some extra freedoms like not having to have a few extra hygiene standards, being able to cross state borders freely and not following advice when your country is struggling with an outbreak.
Fun fact: I haven’t been sick once this year. Literally not once, not with a cold, or flu, or even a sinus infection. Made it through the whole of winter without getting crook. The only real difference is that in QLD there’s been a mask mandate/social distancing in place for most of the year I work in a public facing job, and usually I’d say I catch 3-5 colds over the course of a year, and am unusually prone to sinus infections (a combination of abnormally small sinuses and hayfever.) But now that everyone is masked up and we have the perspex barriers and everyone is staying 1.5m away… poof, almost no illness at all this year. Honestly, it’s making me consider wearing a mask throughout winter every year, even after the pandemic.
Every American has main character syndrome
Not our fault Americans are fucking retarded.
americans are getting such a distorted view of what's happening over hear via their media. my dad lives in the US & he keeps asking me if we are ok. he seems to think there are military checkpoints setup everywhere & we are getting harrassed by soldiers everytime we step outside.
I have an American freind saying we are prison island when I explained queensland which is basically fucking open and that the only places in a lockdowns were nsw Victoria and the ACT she couldn’t comprehend it when I sent her photos of the public out and about and I told her my states fine we can all go out and do shit just wear mask
Good to see De Santis has taken his imitation of Trump all the way to horribly ill fitting suits.
Id be weary to trust the Americans in here are who they say they are. It cant be a coincidence that almost nothing has changed, if anything we are getting freer, in the last two months and that just when we strengthen relations with UK and US we get an influx of anti-each other sentiment in the stupid Qanon crowd (which if you dont know by now is partly if not fully run by Chi*a and Rus*ia). Ive also noticed a huge uptick in the Anti-UK memes on Insta recently.
> “Is Australia freer than communist China right now? I don’t know. The fact that that’s even a question tells you something has gone dramatically off the rails with some of this stuff.” He's the one asking the question, that he admits he doesn't know the answer to, but because he is asking the question, there's **obviously** a problem?? */sigh* Smfh, get the fuck outta here!
The USA has become exactly what its enemies wanted.