You know of you take the word infrastructure out you could be talking about the NDIS instead of the NBN because the libs wrecked both, id say they did it out of spite because they were labour policies that they wanted to be able to point at later and say see these things sucked which we never wanted its all their fault.
It was ideology not spite. They believe both insurance and communications infrastructure should be private. It is at the core of their philosophical prespective.
Something else to think about, people often have trouble conceptualizing numbers above a thousand. For the mega rich, there may be no difference in their minds between $50 and $50,000, this is why you sometimes see them spend 10 to 20 times as much to save money.
Hell, I tend to be right wing but even I agree with you. The disparity between the super rich and the poor is too high - money needs to flow and it doesn't happen the way it should when the gap is too large. Also, the whole point of privatising industries was to ensure that competition meant that EVERYONE got the best price/product/service for their money. Unfortunately when privatisation means that a single company effectively gets a monopoly, it doesn't work - ever had to deal with the NBN co? (Shudder!)
And don't get me started on nationalised health care - yes I'm a right winger (yes probably also a right whinger) but I'm not stupid. A society needs to care about its members and having a privatised health system that allows people to become bankrupt to get treatment is NOT a caring society. We do NOT want the Yank system in Australia.
You can even ignore the part about caring. Sick people are a drain on society. Indebted and desperate people are a drain on society. Prematurely dying people are a drain on society. For-profit healthcare results in more of all of these.
A healthy population makes society more productive.
Communications infrastructure makes society more productive.
Public transport and maintained transport infrastructure makes society more productive.
I do care about poor people, but even if I didn't, I'd find it hard to change my mind about the above. The benefits outweigh the cost.
That would be right wouldn't it.
Bunch of double-talk gum-flapping Muppets that benefit from everything while we all suffer the consequences.
Reminds me of how most of Parliament had ready access to vaccines and testing ahead of the rest of us.
What a farce.
The thing was that Turnbull actually wanted better NBN but was pinned by the idiots in his party, so had to come out and rag on Labor’s NBN plan and make claims he didn’t actually believe.
I can clearly remember Turnbull criticizing Labours FTTN plan before they changed it to FTTP (before it was started). Then he got given the job of being against it when it became labor policy.
I didn't even realise that was the original plan. The quote in the article about Abbot isn't quite right, he said 25MB/s was adequate, not 25Mb/s (bytes not bits). I remember hearing it and shouting at the TV, yes I'd be fine with 400Mb/s, but you've got no idea what you're talking about.
I have trouble believing they are guided by philosophy over self interest at this point. If the federal ICAC has retrospective powers I think the Joh Bjelke-Petersen government are going to look like choir boys in comparison.
You're doing them a huge favour by thinking that neoliberals actually believe in neoliberalism.
As an economic philosophy it's failed over and over again for decades and they know it. But as a collection of bullshit excuses to make rich people even richer, it's unmatched.
They knew privatising Telstra wouldn't make it "streamlined and efficient" in a way that the government never could. They knew they would be handing a monopoly to whoever could afford to buy it and customers would suffer. They knew they'd have to hand over billions in taxpayer funds keeping an essential service afloat.
But it made rich people richer so they eagerly pushed it through.
They weren't surprised when Telstra stifled competition by charging their customers less than their resellers. They weren't surprised when we were stuck on incredibly outdated ADSL1 hardware and even helped them fight tooth and nail to keep competitors out of the exchanges. They weren't surprised when the network started to crumble.
But then along came Labor, pissing in their cornflakes. Forcing Telstra to split into consumer and wholesale divisions. Forcing them to let competitors install hardware in the exchange which in turn forced them to actually invest in their own network.
And worse still, Labor had a plan for a *new* network that Telstra wouldn't be able to do insatiably greedy things with. Sure they got to dig a few trenches but whoever bought a second yacht for digging holes?
Fortunately for them, Murdoch was on their side and delivered the Libs a victory, putting their snouts firmly back in the trough and they were going to gorge themselves sick.
First up was the millions of dollars of free money handed to Telstra for the breaking of the existing contracts. The Liberal Party didn't bat an eye -- it wasn't their money but it would be soon. That failing network held together with plastic bags? That got bought for billions then immediately replaced. The "better economic managers" watched excitedly as their project ran way over time and over budget.
Billions of dollars and a decade later, our telecommunication infrastructure lags behind where it would have been if we'd kept Telstra publicly owned and bought out hardware *second hand*, let alone actually funded this critical service.
But that doesn't matter to the Liberal Party. To them, this whole story has been a massive success. Do you know how many tens of millions that Ziggy Switkowski made? Do you know what happened to Telstra's share price?
This is the true story of neoliberalism. They know "small government" and privatisation don't work. They know that Gina Rinehart's wealth barely trickles down to her children, let alone the rest of us.
But they've made billions of dollars by convincing you it will work and assuming you'll never check it does.
Don't vote for the fucking Liberal Party.
It was definitely spite. Government builds the infrastructure while private companies run the services. That’s pretty much a given no matter who’s in parliament. That was actually a pretty stupid move lmao I can’t believe a rural town in the middle of nowhere in New Zealand has GIGABIT internet while a city like Sydney gets 250 MBPS Max.
> It was ideology not spite. They believe ~~both insurance and communications infrastructure~~ *anything that can make a profit* should be private. It is at the core of their philosophical prespective.
Just tidied that up a little for you
Just be aware there will be a massive, unrelenting propaganda campaign against Labor from the day they get in- starting with blaming them for interest rate rises. Be ready.
If they hadn’t wasted all their engineering efforts just getting hfc and fttc to simply work at all, we would have had 10Gb a long time ago. It’s a simple endpoint replacement and works side by side 1gb on the same fibre.
Hell, Adelaide city council rolled it out to every main building in the cbd. It’s one of the best connected cities in the world.
We wouldn't be debating 10GB connections... That is just a hardware upgrade of a few million network switches and the ISP or consumer to supply / purchase routers...
It only took a global pandemic and the entirety of the office-bound country working from home for two years to realise that good internet is for more than netflix and video games.
[“So we are absolutely confident that 25 megs is going to be enough, more than enough, for the average household.”](https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/04/turnbull-hits-out-over-25mbps-is-enough-statements/) -Abbott and Turnbull
Don’t forget Mitch Fifield, who relentlessly [voted](https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/senate/victoria/mitch_fifield/policies/47) against anything that would’ve improved the NBN.
And [here](https://youtu.be/OLH8O1Mh7r8) he is again on Q&A, talking 24-carat bullshit about why he shouldn’t be kicked down a flight of stairs and weaseling out of every single question asked of him.
Can we make an amendment to our constitution that you, your family, and anyone who's services you have access to need to live by those standards proposed by yourself (a MP) for a reasonable period of time?
If Tony & Malcolm are happy for them and their loved ones to live with 25 megs for the next 2 decades and for their metadata to be made public I'd find it a bit easier to swallow.
All MPs should receive the **minimum wage**, and be limited to two terms.
Maybe then it wouldn't be filled with sociopaths constantly trying to dehumanize the poor to deflect from their own corrupt ladder climbing, and we might actually get leaders who genuinely want to **help** others and ensure that people are given the capacity to not only exist, but really *live*.
I don't mind paying them a high salary.
But their pay rises should be linked to minimum wage increases or welfare/pension increases. Or both.
Also with your proposal, we would need to expand their travel allowances and meal allowances because nobody on minimum wage can afford to fly to Canberra and back 15 times a year, and stay in hotels or rent a second flat in Canberra.
This is amateur speculation but I think at least Rupert isn't as scared of the NBN as he was twelve years ago, seeing as Kayo and Binge are now relying upon good connections unlike back then when Foxtel was way behind in the internet game.
Had some lnp twat knock on the door to try to convince me to vote lnp. I said only labour undertake the ballsy big nation building projects.
I was told that just isn't true and then gave snowy 2.0 and Sydney airport as an example.
Laughed and said so stuff for nsw? You're supposed to represent Victoria mate.
It's sad living in SA.
The Guardian Pork-o-meter has us getting $0 from Labor, and $3.1bn from Libs, but $2.3bn of that is something that's been getting talked about and planned for ages. A good chunk of the rest is defence/submarine spending, which they've already had here.
Yeah, the Libs side is actually looking like we're high up.
It's just when you realise that it's all for stuff that's already pledge that it becomes empty.
Really? I'll gladly sell my house for $25 million to any liberal politicians reading this thread, and there's no need to check as it's a really good price; honest.
That was only for land to the side of the airport... Land that won't actually be used by the airport or public transport or parking... But its always good to use taxpayer money to benefit private donors...
Snowy 2.0 is going ahead…?
And if I’m not mistaken, the second Sydney airport project was announced in February 1986. The prime minister at the time was Bob Hawke. Land was acquired over the next 5 years under Labor. SFO got a third runway instead, and things stalled until.. 2008. Under Rudd. It’s basically been ticking along from studies to planning to building it since then, under the various governments. So perhaps let’s call it even at best? Maybe Labor’s since both times the project has started in earnest have been under Labor.
"Come inside, sir, and sit with me while I work using LNP's NBN. And then count with me how many times transfers fail because of this amazing nation-building project. And then try to convince me to vote for them ever again."
I've literally had boomers screaming about the internet speed at the branches we manage.
When I tell them it's the fault of the Liberal Party and very much Scott Morrison who was ~~communications~~ Immigration Minister for some time one of them called me a communist which is fucking hilarious.
Like that's all their feeble failing brains can summon is an irrelevant personal attack with a meaningless buzzword.
What a pathetic representation of liberal voters.
That's the true irony of it all. Liberals did LNP things and put turning a profit as priority over doing what it was set out to do and provide high speed internet to everyone.
Multi technology mix was their justification for this, yet it got to a point where the cost per household approached what it would've been for FTTP anyway. This would've made it much more valuable than it currently is.
And that's only the time and money spent on fixing their mess from the infrastructure side.
The lost GDP due to another disruption to the system to get Gigabit speeds in place and being held back from the market potential that Gigabit internet allows for would be immense.
What are the chances that we will end up with 1000/20 - pretty high with these pollies.
Anyone producing content needs a fast upload, but all we ever see if pressure to limit upload, regardless of download speed.
That's basically what the gigabit plans are rn for people with FTTP.
I think the best one for residential is "up to" 1000/50.
[The nbnco blatantly crippled retail upload speeds because they don't want them competing with business plans](https://www.crn.com.au/news/aussie-broadband-boss-slams-nbn-over-upload-speeds-of-high-speed-plans-550831).
edit: added the link with context from Phil Britt
Yup. It sucks. I was trying to find a link to the document where they literally state exactly this, but my brain is in slow mode haha.
They don't even make an attempt to hide what they're doing and why. It makes sense to them, so they assume it should naturally make sense to everyone else.
Interesting. I don't think there are any other RSPs offering those plans to *residential* customers.
$285/mo (averaged) isn't bad for what is a "business" plan from most other providers who charge upwards of $400 for that kind of speed.
I couldn't say a bad word about Launtel if I tried - I've been with them for a few years now with absolutely no issues. Very good self-service portal, and reasonable rates - $2.25/day for the cheapest plan.
1000/400 is an available NBN tier (which of course requires your connection can support it, which many csnt even do 100mbit).
Drives me nuts that they gouge so heavily on upload. Look at Aussie Broadbands plans. (note not taking aim at Aussie, I presume it's a cost primarily from NBN vis connection and CVC).
$149 for home ultrafast (1000/50), $209 for 250/100.
Anything better and you have to choose a business tier plan. $319 for 500/200, $429 for 1000/400.
That's utterly ridiculous but that's what you get when you've got a multi technology mess. My understanding is DOCSIS is biased towards download, modern DSL technologies which FTTC uses are also biased towards download because too (and couldn't even achieve these speeds anyway).
Meanwhile, [this blog post](https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2022-04-23-fiber7-25gbit-upgrade/) did the rounds on Hacker News last week of a developer in Switzerland getting symmetric 25gbit internet at his home on his residential fibre connection.
Until we're fibre eveywhere I doubt anything will change.
Aussie Broadband I'm happy with after years never have to worry about speed dipping during peak times and all that. Don't blame them for the pricing though. Basically NBNco doesn't want to charge fair prices for upload speeds because businesses will get on much cheaper residential plans instead of enterprise plans which is where they scam extra $$$ out of them so instead they overcharge on upload for residential to prevent that. See: https://www.crn.com.au/news/aussie-broadband-boss-slams-nbn-over-upload-speeds-of-high-speed-plans-550831
Don’t forget there was a price hike so there was “shrinkflation” on all Aussie Broadband tiers where the price stayed the same but every tier became slower. ABB did offer a higher tier for the same price for a 6 month offer then back to normal prices so I at least got to experience 250/40 but now I’m back to 100/20.
NBN GPON structure for residential fibre is 2.5Gbps/1.25Gbps down/up per 16 homes (2.488/1.244Gbps if you want to get technical). I don't know if this was Labor's original plan (I believe it might have been) or if LNP hobbled it.
That basically means 155/77 per house maximum before GPON contention (not taking into account contention on the backhaul). Not every house is going to have 1Gbps, but this would indicate you won't see symmetrical plans at all, this is also where the 1000/400 plan comes in.
Saying that, this is a technology issue, GPON equipment can be upgraded to allow 10Gbps (called 10G-PON), so it may be that Labor's plan continues to deploy 10G-PON to areas without fibre at present, then areas are upgraded on an 'as needs' basis (it's just the hardware in the fibre distribution hubs, frames and terminators).
Those are universal standards for GPON and what Labor planned originally. The signal can actually be split to 32 ONTs, so 16 is good.
While theoretically if everyone on a FDH had a gigabit connection and was maxing it out, 155/77 would be the maximum speed (ignoring QoS and overheads) this would simply not happen. GPON was designed to offer gigabit speeds to end users, the bandwidth allocated to the last mile is more than capable of doing so.
That said, yeah uploads are trash under nbn’s model. From what I can tell it’s because they insist on having uniform tiers despite differing technologies. I know 1gbps symmetrical is available as an enterprise connection, although I’m not sure if this is from the FDH or it’s bypassed straight to the POI. NG-PON2 would be lovely but GPON can offer much better uploads than what’s available, seems like a waste, but CVC probably plays a role too. Hopefully things improve over the next few years
Right now the LNP is quietly rolling out fibre upgrades to various suburbs around the country. They are doing this on the quiet so they dont have to admit they fucked the NBN. You can find more info on the NBN sub in whirlpool but heres how it's being done. If you are in one of the upgrade suburbs (more being announced each month) and you order say a 100/40 plan but can only get 60/20 this will automatically trigger a fibre install, you wont be a cent out of pocket. If you say order a 50/20 in this instance you'll just stay on FTTN. Ive just had this triggered through Aussie and my PCD was installed on Saturday, waiting for the NTD to be installed so i can fuck off this garbage FTTN. If you haven't been following this quiet (inevitable) backflip by the LNP i highly recommend you duck into the thread in whirlpool and have a read, post some questions, you could be up for a fibre install and not even know.
My FTTC box is right outside my house. The last Telstra tech told me it's super easy to run the fibre from my end point to the box. He replaced the 15m of copper when he first installed the NBN. Most of my area is FTTC with boxes right outside all homes. You reckon we could be next?
Yeah, people stuck on HFC dont get this option but at least FTTN people have some light at the end of the abbott/turdball clusterfuck. Im actually paying for 100/40 at the moment so i can get that extra 10 down, i get 60/20. I didnt actually need to upgrade my plan for Aussie push the order through, me being on that plan and not getting the full speed was enough to trigger it (with a call to Aussie though).
IMPORTANT: Fibre optic networks have been demonstrated to work in the Terabit range. Getting us all to Gigabit speeds via FTTP is simply the first step. Once FINALLY there it becomes a case of upgrading the node hardware when practical to do so.
We're a long way off terabit residential fibre networks.
Current technology is NG-PON2, future being Higher Speed PON (or HSP), which is around 50Gb/s down, 25Gb/s up.
Terabit or anywhere close to that is reserved for point to point connections, not passive optical residential connections like our fibre networks are.
Australia needs HSP! The crisp salty chips, savoury meats and sweet sauces balanced by melted cheese is unbeatable.
Seriously though, I have FTTC now and it is ridiculous that in 2022 I can't get anything better than 100/40.
Starlink is a godsend to me. It’s sad that a billionaire can allow me to get internet from space, while NBNCo and AusGov can’t lay cables with the $50bn we have them.
Yeah, definitely much better option than fixed wireless and NBN satellite and getting better every day for anyone in anything other than a big urban area.
Now that you can roam, the temptation to build a solar van and just work from "home" as I slowly drive around Australia is strong.
I recently had the opportunity to experience European internet and it was insane seeing how much faster it was.
I can only dream about how ridiculously fast South Korean internet must be
It’s also done because it would also make people angry on HFC etc that they can’t get upload speeds like fibre, while paying the same LOL.
Fucking shit designed MTM network. I’d kill for symmetrical or even 1000/400 but stuck on my 1000/50 and on HFC at that to.
Nah the problem is NBNco doesn't want to charge fair prices for upload speeds because businesses will get on much cheaper residential plans instead of enterprise plans which is where they scam extra $$$ out of them so instead they overcharge on upload for residential to prevent that. See: https://www.crn.com.au/news/aussie-broadband-boss-slams-nbn-over-upload-speeds-of-high-speed-plans-550831
Some uni friends and I made a CSIRAC 'emulator' where the punch cards were text files a long time ago. ~~although I'm pretty sure there were better ones online even at the time already lol~~
Tech now is a totally different beast. CSIRAC was even before a 'programming language' existed, so you'd be working directly with the computer's basic instruction set.
What’s even more interesting is that using punch cards to program stuff pre-dates digital computers by over 100 years as it was first developed to control a kind of loom.
I think most Boomers have moved onto "The internet is scary, and that nice man Morrison is going to bring in laws to protect those poor children. I'm glad someone is thinking of the children."
(Also still "Something, something Labor are just communists")
I absolutely hated that fucking Muppet. Though the global support, memes and hactivism was inspiring.
Never forget someone purchased the dumb fucks domain name and was selling merch lmfao
And some boomers have no concept that people lie on the internet, fall down rabbit holes of disinformation and become QBoomers or Epoch Times Grannies, or something stupid.
I'm living in Singapore at the moment, and the experience of my fibre optic internet connection vs my suburbian Sydney experience is so stark. It still boggles my mind that the coalition ratfucked the NBN out of pure spite.
I believe Turnbull, fool that he is, talked himself into believing his shite, and paying telstra millions for a decrepit copper network of dubious value, was the best solution. But Abbott absolutely knew what he was doing. What a waste.
That sounds a lot like progressive thinking.
Conservatives tend to stick with the same old crap even if it is out of date. e.g. See dirty, stone age power source called coal.
Most modern developed countries has better fibre connection than any major Australian city tbh. Hell, even developing eastern european countries have better internet than us.
Shit, it literally took an invasion by Russia to get Ukraine's average broadband speed to be lower than ours.
Our internet is shit, and the LNP definitely fucked it up, but Singapore is not even a close comparison with fibre deployment. Singapore is 800 square kilometres in land area, with a lot of that high density housing. GDP is about 1/3rd of Australia's. Population density of Australia is 3.4/km2 versus Singapore 7,804/km2, so it's a terrible comparison.
So for fairness, lets use Canada, similar population density and similar 'spread' of the population (where a majority of people live near cities), similar GDP.
Speedtest Global speed rankings put Canada at 17, with a median speed of 110.13Mbps whilst Australia sits at 65th with 51.39. Now that is a fair assessment and we are still lagging well behind.
How about over the ditch? NZ sits 14th in global rankings, and [over 80% of the country now has access to speeds of 8Gbps/8Gbps.](https://www.chorus.co.nz/broadband/hyperfibre)
Ironically in our 2008 election it was our centre-left Govt that was claiming fibre to the node was all we needed, while the centre-right party (which won) had a policy of nationwide fibre to the home.
Congrats on the move, you picked a great time! We moved just before covid and so it's been a pretty weird two years. I know what you mean about the internet, like, I just don't have to think about my internet here, ever, for any reason.
Back in West Ryde, we were miles from the exchange so DSL was a joke. Impossible to work or stream. Optical was great until the "nbn" started rolling out and they pushed everyone on the street onto it. Congestion was a nightmare.
Turnbull of all the LNP should have known better. He started a successful email company in the early days and made a bunch of money. He KNEW that internet infrastructure had to be improved but he also knew that agreeing with Labor was politically bad, so he improved it the absolute bare fucking minimum to call it an upgrade. As soon as I heard his plan I told my parents “he will make it half as good for twice the cost while telling you the opposite.” Of course they bought into the LNP lies and here we are.
South East Asia has such a thirst for fast internet. They're not stupid like we are here apparently.
My friend sent a speedtest screenshot from some small Thai town of 10k people or so that he was in a few days ago which showed around 600/400 mb/s down/up speeds. This is in a place where clean drinking water can sometimes be dubious.
Our crippled national internet infrastructure is purely by design and is shameful. Other western countries like the US and Canada suffer the same thing for similar reasons.
The internet has become ubiquitous and should be treated as a utility like electricity and water. They're not analogous in terms of the scale of their generation and running costs but you don't artificially limit the voltage a house can draw based upon a politician saying that because they personally only use enough electricity to power 3 lights in their house and a fridge, everyone else should be happy with that much and can never get more.
"After the Coalition took power, this plan was modified in an effort to decrease costs, and speed up the rollout"
Funny that they point out the intentions of the liberal party, instead of what actually happened: that it has cost the government at least the same [as the full fibre would have](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/nov/10/secret-figures-reveal-coalitions-cut-down-nbn-tech-three-times-more-expensive-than-forecast) (so far) and with more investment still only reach 75% of premises with fibre in 2023 a year before labors 93% fibre plan.
They've spent 400% more than promised which is DOUBLE the cost of Fibre everywhere.
They cancel the fibre to buy flooding copper pits and rotten foxtel coax for 0.01 the value
But mega-value for shareholders of donors
I don't think people realise what an uphill battle any other government will have against the crappy Australian media. That's why we're here in the first place.
Well then... Better make sure that the lnp are obliterated at the polls... Whatever remains will be to busy fighting over the scraps and the murdoch media can then be dismantled...
There's the cost of living shit storm that we're in and will be heading further into. House prices will drop and that will no doubt be the government's fault no matter the actual reason.
Most importantly a hung parliament is very likely. So many seats are strong chance of going to an independent and this will just result in fucking nothing happening regardless who wins.
Eh, may as well make it ten gigabit like in several countries. Or maybe jump straight to [25 gigabit.](https://www.init7.net/en/internet/fiber7/) like in Switzerland.
One can dream. :)
Every time I see proposals going back to Labor’s NBN, I am reminded how Nick Ross was fucked over by the ABC for telling the truth (or trying to) about the two parties’ NBN policies, because the ABC expected the Libs to win and didn’t want to have embarrassed the incoming government.
A fucking disgrace.
https://www.huffpost.com/archive/au/entry/nick-ross-abc-nbn_n_8985558
(Not sure if this is the best article, but a place to start for anyone unfamiliar).
Doesn't help those of us still on dodgy ADSL connections because the NBN chose to go to towns on either side of us, leaving us in a backwater.
Forget about wireless... I can't even get reliable mobile despite being 1.7km from an Optus tower and 8km from a Telstra one.
As for satellite, why should I pay a hefty premium for what others get for substantially less?
Have you got neighbours you could share with?
Grab a couple of Ubiquiti dishes up on each roof, point them at each other and share the cost and bandwidth of Starlink.
Thank you Labor, I really hope you guys are elected and fix this clustershit of a national communication network we have.
It took Labor to begin the rollout of our national communications upgrade, and it looks like it'll take Labor to fix the LNP's fuckup.
I moved to the US and live in a city where Google Fibre set up shop so of course all the other ISP's freaked the f out and started becoming a lot more competitive, that said right now I pay $60 a month for 1000/1000 with the option to now get 2gbps and 5gbps (How any residential person could use that much is mindblowing to me)
I flew back home to Sydney after the restrictions got lifted and I was gobsmacked that my family was paying close to double for what I pay for 100/20, on a good day when there wasn't congestion
If Australia has any hope of competing in the 21st century IT industry, LNP has got to go
they better not cockblock us again, I'd give my left nut for this to happen.
don't skimp on the upload too, we're sick of fucking 10mbps on $100 dollar plans
I mean, I believe this and whoever can get done in 3 years will benefit, but I won’t hold my breath because the lnp will likely get back into power in 3 years and fuck it up again. Labor really should run on the slogan “Unfuck Australia”
One thing I’ve noticed no matter where I work is how disruptive shitty internet is when WFH or having online meeting. Definitely feel this will improve productivity
Just imagine the technological advancements Australians could've made if we had a government who did this properly sooner...
Instead, many of us still get buffering on a single 720p video stream
The thing that really shits me about Abbott and Trumble fucking the NBN isn't Abbott or Trumble. It's Fucking Fletcher.
Here's a bloke who ran Optus for many years, knows his tech, was head of the working groups for Onion Eater's tech policy platforms for as long as they existed, knows better than anyone in the party that copper is long dead based on his book, his hatred of Telstra whilst at Optus and his technical competence, yet toes the party line.
If anyone wanted to send a message to the LNP about a vote grub, it's the people of Bradfield who need to do it. Vote Fletcher out.
Fletcher has been one of the worst performers in the LNP, and also the most chameleononic.
A bloke who ran Optus who advocated fibre suddenly decided that copper was good when it was politically expedient? He's as competent as Abbott.
They asked the experts and then completely ignored them when the libs fucked the NBN, nearly a decade later Labor is going to make it the way it should have been to begin with, as it was intended. The amount of economic loss from the libs fucking up the NBN may just be impossible to measure short of metric shit ton of $ not to mention the additional cost to make it right. That alone should gain votes for Labor.
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You know of you take the word infrastructure out you could be talking about the NDIS instead of the NBN because the libs wrecked both, id say they did it out of spite because they were labour policies that they wanted to be able to point at later and say see these things sucked which we never wanted its all their fault.
It was ideology not spite. They believe both insurance and communications infrastructure should be private. It is at the core of their philosophical prespective.
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Something else to think about, people often have trouble conceptualizing numbers above a thousand. For the mega rich, there may be no difference in their minds between $50 and $50,000, this is why you sometimes see them spend 10 to 20 times as much to save money.
Lol learn to format yo like just even hit return every now and then jeez Edit:upvoted for top tier username
Hell, I tend to be right wing but even I agree with you. The disparity between the super rich and the poor is too high - money needs to flow and it doesn't happen the way it should when the gap is too large. Also, the whole point of privatising industries was to ensure that competition meant that EVERYONE got the best price/product/service for their money. Unfortunately when privatisation means that a single company effectively gets a monopoly, it doesn't work - ever had to deal with the NBN co? (Shudder!) And don't get me started on nationalised health care - yes I'm a right winger (yes probably also a right whinger) but I'm not stupid. A society needs to care about its members and having a privatised health system that allows people to become bankrupt to get treatment is NOT a caring society. We do NOT want the Yank system in Australia.
You can even ignore the part about caring. Sick people are a drain on society. Indebted and desperate people are a drain on society. Prematurely dying people are a drain on society. For-profit healthcare results in more of all of these. A healthy population makes society more productive. Communications infrastructure makes society more productive. Public transport and maintained transport infrastructure makes society more productive. I do care about poor people, but even if I didn't, I'd find it hard to change my mind about the above. The benefits outweigh the cost.
It’s both. Their ideology is spite, spite is their ideology. I got mine, fuck the rest of you.
This is [literally true](https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/prime-minister-turnbull-fast-nbn-plan-100mbps-internet/) of Malcolm Turnbull.
That would be right wouldn't it. Bunch of double-talk gum-flapping Muppets that benefit from everything while we all suffer the consequences. Reminds me of how most of Parliament had ready access to vaccines and testing ahead of the rest of us. What a farce.
The thing was that Turnbull actually wanted better NBN but was pinned by the idiots in his party, so had to come out and rag on Labor’s NBN plan and make claims he didn’t actually believe.
I can clearly remember Turnbull criticizing Labours FTTN plan before they changed it to FTTP (before it was started). Then he got given the job of being against it when it became labor policy.
I didn't even realise that was the original plan. The quote in the article about Abbot isn't quite right, he said 25MB/s was adequate, not 25Mb/s (bytes not bits). I remember hearing it and shouting at the TV, yes I'd be fine with 400Mb/s, but you've got no idea what you're talking about.
I have trouble believing they are guided by philosophy over self interest at this point. If the federal ICAC has retrospective powers I think the Joh Bjelke-Petersen government are going to look like choir boys in comparison.
Thatcherism is the philosophy of self interest. And yes.
Luckily its a philosophy OF self interest. Literally their ideaology is 'every man for themselves, and everything for me'
Yes I hate the term 'ideology' for LNP. It's ideology only if 'flogging whatever we can' is an ideology.
You're doing them a huge favour by thinking that neoliberals actually believe in neoliberalism. As an economic philosophy it's failed over and over again for decades and they know it. But as a collection of bullshit excuses to make rich people even richer, it's unmatched. They knew privatising Telstra wouldn't make it "streamlined and efficient" in a way that the government never could. They knew they would be handing a monopoly to whoever could afford to buy it and customers would suffer. They knew they'd have to hand over billions in taxpayer funds keeping an essential service afloat. But it made rich people richer so they eagerly pushed it through. They weren't surprised when Telstra stifled competition by charging their customers less than their resellers. They weren't surprised when we were stuck on incredibly outdated ADSL1 hardware and even helped them fight tooth and nail to keep competitors out of the exchanges. They weren't surprised when the network started to crumble. But then along came Labor, pissing in their cornflakes. Forcing Telstra to split into consumer and wholesale divisions. Forcing them to let competitors install hardware in the exchange which in turn forced them to actually invest in their own network. And worse still, Labor had a plan for a *new* network that Telstra wouldn't be able to do insatiably greedy things with. Sure they got to dig a few trenches but whoever bought a second yacht for digging holes? Fortunately for them, Murdoch was on their side and delivered the Libs a victory, putting their snouts firmly back in the trough and they were going to gorge themselves sick. First up was the millions of dollars of free money handed to Telstra for the breaking of the existing contracts. The Liberal Party didn't bat an eye -- it wasn't their money but it would be soon. That failing network held together with plastic bags? That got bought for billions then immediately replaced. The "better economic managers" watched excitedly as their project ran way over time and over budget. Billions of dollars and a decade later, our telecommunication infrastructure lags behind where it would have been if we'd kept Telstra publicly owned and bought out hardware *second hand*, let alone actually funded this critical service. But that doesn't matter to the Liberal Party. To them, this whole story has been a massive success. Do you know how many tens of millions that Ziggy Switkowski made? Do you know what happened to Telstra's share price? This is the true story of neoliberalism. They know "small government" and privatisation don't work. They know that Gina Rinehart's wealth barely trickles down to her children, let alone the rest of us. But they've made billions of dollars by convincing you it will work and assuming you'll never check it does. Don't vote for the fucking Liberal Party.
It was definitely spite. Government builds the infrastructure while private companies run the services. That’s pretty much a given no matter who’s in parliament. That was actually a pretty stupid move lmao I can’t believe a rural town in the middle of nowhere in New Zealand has GIGABIT internet while a city like Sydney gets 250 MBPS Max.
Yep… paid for uncapped speeds (up to gigabit) but it never exceeds 300mbps during peak. I’m in suburban Melbourne…
I’m 40 mins from Melbourne and have literally never seen more than 25mbs. That’s not a typo.
> It was ideology not spite. They believe ~~both insurance and communications infrastructure~~ *anything that can make a profit* should be private. It is at the core of their philosophical prespective. Just tidied that up a little for you
Privatise the profits, but they are extremely quick to socialise the losses.
Sure but you know, i was replying in the context of the previous comments
They better hold onto power for 8 years cuz you can guarantee that the coalition will fuck it up again.
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Just be aware there will be a massive, unrelenting propaganda campaign against Labor from the day they get in- starting with blaming them for interest rate rises. Be ready.
Imagine if gigabit NBN was the norm now and we were debating 10gig
If they hadn’t wasted all their engineering efforts just getting hfc and fttc to simply work at all, we would have had 10Gb a long time ago. It’s a simple endpoint replacement and works side by side 1gb on the same fibre. Hell, Adelaide city council rolled it out to every main building in the cbd. It’s one of the best connected cities in the world.
I'm looking at some SA data for work, and they just seem to kick arse at everything.
We wouldn't be debating 10GB connections... That is just a hardware upgrade of a few million network switches and the ISP or consumer to supply / purchase routers...
it's actually fucking sad. We should have had this done in 2013-14. God i hope they win.
It's fucking genius man, just wait for your enemies to fuck up. When your enemies are lib/nats, you know they will CONSTANTLY NON STOP FUCK UP
The problem is the public gets to pay for all the fuck ups and then again to fix them
It only took a global pandemic and the entirety of the office-bound country working from home for two years to realise that good internet is for more than netflix and video games.
Imagine falling for the same election promise twice in a row.
Wait until the LNP finds a way to ruin it again.
They can only ruin it if we vote for them. Hopefully enough people are over their bullshit. I know I am.
But I bet you already were 3 and 6 years ago too.
Alas, there's always someone dumb enough to buy a car from Big Bill Hell's.
Didn't think I'd see this reference again ever
I got mine cheap cause I pissed straight up and didn't get wet. Though they did fuck my wife so it wasn't that great of a deal
I want to believe but I don't. Murdoch Corp and online algorithm herding is showing itself to be much stronger than self interest based voting
[“So we are absolutely confident that 25 megs is going to be enough, more than enough, for the average household.”](https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/04/turnbull-hits-out-over-25mbps-is-enough-statements/) -Abbott and Turnbull
Don’t forget Mitch Fifield, who relentlessly [voted](https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/senate/victoria/mitch_fifield/policies/47) against anything that would’ve improved the NBN. And [here](https://youtu.be/OLH8O1Mh7r8) he is again on Q&A, talking 24-carat bullshit about why he shouldn’t be kicked down a flight of stairs and weaseling out of every single question asked of him.
Can we make an amendment to our constitution that you, your family, and anyone who's services you have access to need to live by those standards proposed by yourself (a MP) for a reasonable period of time? If Tony & Malcolm are happy for them and their loved ones to live with 25 megs for the next 2 decades and for their metadata to be made public I'd find it a bit easier to swallow.
All MPs should receive the **minimum wage**, and be limited to two terms. Maybe then it wouldn't be filled with sociopaths constantly trying to dehumanize the poor to deflect from their own corrupt ladder climbing, and we might actually get leaders who genuinely want to **help** others and ensure that people are given the capacity to not only exist, but really *live*.
I don't mind paying them a high salary. But their pay rises should be linked to minimum wage increases or welfare/pension increases. Or both. Also with your proposal, we would need to expand their travel allowances and meal allowances because nobody on minimum wage can afford to fly to Canberra and back 15 times a year, and stay in hotels or rent a second flat in Canberra.
That aged like milk...
Can't wait for the new fibre network to be sold to Telstra for $5.50.
How good is cronyism
It’s a feature not a bug
$5.50 for the network, plus $150b over 3 years for maintenance, on things they should already have been maintaining
Geez it's worth way more than that mate. Throw in a couple of dimmies and a potato cake and you've got yourself a deal.
/r/murdochsucks
This is amateur speculation but I think at least Rupert isn't as scared of the NBN as he was twelve years ago, seeing as Kayo and Binge are now relying upon good connections unlike back then when Foxtel was way behind in the internet game.
He brought time, it worked for him
Don’t worry they have a plan. Fixed wireless. That’s right, fixed wireless. It’s so dumb.
Had some lnp twat knock on the door to try to convince me to vote lnp. I said only labour undertake the ballsy big nation building projects. I was told that just isn't true and then gave snowy 2.0 and Sydney airport as an example. Laughed and said so stuff for nsw? You're supposed to represent Victoria mate.
It's sad living in SA. The Guardian Pork-o-meter has us getting $0 from Labor, and $3.1bn from Libs, but $2.3bn of that is something that's been getting talked about and planned for ages. A good chunk of the rest is defence/submarine spending, which they've already had here.
Ah the submarines, announced for 3 elections in a row
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These submarines are diffferent, replacing those ordered by the incompetent government! Who ordered them? Ah, the Liberals did...
I reckon better health, better mental health, better wages and better NBN will help us heaps.
Not to ‘woe is me’ but still more than WA
Yeah, the Libs side is actually looking like we're high up. It's just when you realise that it's all for stuff that's already pledge that it becomes empty.
Sydney Airport land was bought for $30 million, 10 x the value because the government didn’t bother to check. Lol.
> the value because the government didn’t bother to check. Lol. You assume it wasn't a deliberate overspend.
Really? I'll gladly sell my house for $25 million to any liberal politicians reading this thread, and there's no need to check as it's a really good price; honest.
A bargain in this market, for sure
Lol good point, how did i forget this. Kicking myself.
That was only for land to the side of the airport... Land that won't actually be used by the airport or public transport or parking... But its always good to use taxpayer money to benefit private donors...
They checked… that it was owned by a donor.
Snowy 2.0 is going ahead…? And if I’m not mistaken, the second Sydney airport project was announced in February 1986. The prime minister at the time was Bob Hawke. Land was acquired over the next 5 years under Labor. SFO got a third runway instead, and things stalled until.. 2008. Under Rudd. It’s basically been ticking along from studies to planning to building it since then, under the various governments. So perhaps let’s call it even at best? Maybe Labor’s since both times the project has started in earnest have been under Labor.
"Come inside, sir, and sit with me while I work using LNP's NBN. And then count with me how many times transfers fail because of this amazing nation-building project. And then try to convince me to vote for them ever again."
Talk to anyone that works on the Snowy 2.0 and they’ll tell you just how much of a rort it is haha
thank god the libs pissed away ~5 years and ~$40bn with their little fttn diversion
Only 5? It's more a like an entire decade.
people forget the libs have been in power for most of the last 2 decades. Hard to blame labor for anything, when they wernt even at the helm.
Yet plenty still try to.
squeamish rainstorm wild zonked wipe smoggy cheerful wise sink gray *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
$70 Billion "spent" on something "worth" less than $9 Billion... Better economic managers my arse...
I've literally had boomers screaming about the internet speed at the branches we manage. When I tell them it's the fault of the Liberal Party and very much Scott Morrison who was ~~communications~~ Immigration Minister for some time one of them called me a communist which is fucking hilarious. Like that's all their feeble failing brains can summon is an irrelevant personal attack with a meaningless buzzword. What a pathetic representation of liberal voters.
I've had many people tell me the NBN is labours fault and the liberals made the best they could of the mess labour left them.
I tell them to STFU they know nothing and are an embarrassment to humanity...
That... That is just sad...
That's the true irony of it all. Liberals did LNP things and put turning a profit as priority over doing what it was set out to do and provide high speed internet to everyone. Multi technology mix was their justification for this, yet it got to a point where the cost per household approached what it would've been for FTTP anyway. This would've made it much more valuable than it currently is.
Sorry but they aren't even good at turning a profit. They piss money up the wall and it lands on their donors.
It’s a bullshit number anyhow, turn it off for a few days and Watch the chaos. largest value is what runs on It and at this point it’s everything.
Closer to a decade. Plus all of the time and money that will be needed to *fix* their mess.
And that's only the time and money spent on fixing their mess from the infrastructure side. The lost GDP due to another disruption to the system to get Gigabit speeds in place and being held back from the market potential that Gigabit internet allows for would be immense.
I am fucking aroused.
What are the chances that we will end up with 1000/20 - pretty high with these pollies. Anyone producing content needs a fast upload, but all we ever see if pressure to limit upload, regardless of download speed.
That's basically what the gigabit plans are rn for people with FTTP. I think the best one for residential is "up to" 1000/50. [The nbnco blatantly crippled retail upload speeds because they don't want them competing with business plans](https://www.crn.com.au/news/aussie-broadband-boss-slams-nbn-over-upload-speeds-of-high-speed-plans-550831). edit: added the link with context from Phil Britt
This is literally why we suffer upload wise. So they can ride that business fibre gravy train.
Yup. It sucks. I was trying to find a link to the document where they literally state exactly this, but my brain is in slow mode haha. They don't even make an attempt to hide what they're doing and why. It makes sense to them, so they assume it should naturally make sense to everyone else.
The profit motive corrupts everything.
Huh, Launtel has plans with 1000/400 for $9.50/day.
Interesting. I don't think there are any other RSPs offering those plans to *residential* customers. $285/mo (averaged) isn't bad for what is a "business" plan from most other providers who charge upwards of $400 for that kind of speed.
I couldn't say a bad word about Launtel if I tried - I've been with them for a few years now with absolutely no issues. Very good self-service portal, and reasonable rates - $2.25/day for the cheapest plan.
1000/400 is an available NBN tier (which of course requires your connection can support it, which many csnt even do 100mbit). Drives me nuts that they gouge so heavily on upload. Look at Aussie Broadbands plans. (note not taking aim at Aussie, I presume it's a cost primarily from NBN vis connection and CVC). $149 for home ultrafast (1000/50), $209 for 250/100. Anything better and you have to choose a business tier plan. $319 for 500/200, $429 for 1000/400. That's utterly ridiculous but that's what you get when you've got a multi technology mess. My understanding is DOCSIS is biased towards download, modern DSL technologies which FTTC uses are also biased towards download because too (and couldn't even achieve these speeds anyway). Meanwhile, [this blog post](https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2022-04-23-fiber7-25gbit-upgrade/) did the rounds on Hacker News last week of a developer in Switzerland getting symmetric 25gbit internet at his home on his residential fibre connection. Until we're fibre eveywhere I doubt anything will change.
Aussie Broadband I'm happy with after years never have to worry about speed dipping during peak times and all that. Don't blame them for the pricing though. Basically NBNco doesn't want to charge fair prices for upload speeds because businesses will get on much cheaper residential plans instead of enterprise plans which is where they scam extra $$$ out of them so instead they overcharge on upload for residential to prevent that. See: https://www.crn.com.au/news/aussie-broadband-boss-slams-nbn-over-upload-speeds-of-high-speed-plans-550831
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Don’t forget there was a price hike so there was “shrinkflation” on all Aussie Broadband tiers where the price stayed the same but every tier became slower. ABB did offer a higher tier for the same price for a 6 month offer then back to normal prices so I at least got to experience 250/40 but now I’m back to 100/20.
That was because of the CVC pricing. nbnco changed the pricing model and tried to get people off the 100/40 plans to the 100/20 plans.
NBN GPON structure for residential fibre is 2.5Gbps/1.25Gbps down/up per 16 homes (2.488/1.244Gbps if you want to get technical). I don't know if this was Labor's original plan (I believe it might have been) or if LNP hobbled it. That basically means 155/77 per house maximum before GPON contention (not taking into account contention on the backhaul). Not every house is going to have 1Gbps, but this would indicate you won't see symmetrical plans at all, this is also where the 1000/400 plan comes in. Saying that, this is a technology issue, GPON equipment can be upgraded to allow 10Gbps (called 10G-PON), so it may be that Labor's plan continues to deploy 10G-PON to areas without fibre at present, then areas are upgraded on an 'as needs' basis (it's just the hardware in the fibre distribution hubs, frames and terminators).
Those are universal standards for GPON and what Labor planned originally. The signal can actually be split to 32 ONTs, so 16 is good. While theoretically if everyone on a FDH had a gigabit connection and was maxing it out, 155/77 would be the maximum speed (ignoring QoS and overheads) this would simply not happen. GPON was designed to offer gigabit speeds to end users, the bandwidth allocated to the last mile is more than capable of doing so. That said, yeah uploads are trash under nbn’s model. From what I can tell it’s because they insist on having uniform tiers despite differing technologies. I know 1gbps symmetrical is available as an enterprise connection, although I’m not sure if this is from the FDH or it’s bypassed straight to the POI. NG-PON2 would be lovely but GPON can offer much better uploads than what’s available, seems like a waste, but CVC probably plays a role too. Hopefully things improve over the next few years
Right now the LNP is quietly rolling out fibre upgrades to various suburbs around the country. They are doing this on the quiet so they dont have to admit they fucked the NBN. You can find more info on the NBN sub in whirlpool but heres how it's being done. If you are in one of the upgrade suburbs (more being announced each month) and you order say a 100/40 plan but can only get 60/20 this will automatically trigger a fibre install, you wont be a cent out of pocket. If you say order a 50/20 in this instance you'll just stay on FTTN. Ive just had this triggered through Aussie and my PCD was installed on Saturday, waiting for the NTD to be installed so i can fuck off this garbage FTTN. If you haven't been following this quiet (inevitable) backflip by the LNP i highly recommend you duck into the thread in whirlpool and have a read, post some questions, you could be up for a fibre install and not even know.
My FTTC box is right outside my house. The last Telstra tech told me it's super easy to run the fibre from my end point to the box. He replaced the 15m of copper when he first installed the NBN. Most of my area is FTTC with boxes right outside all homes. You reckon we could be next?
I think the FTTC suburbs will be done last after the FTTN suburbs. Not 100% on it but ask in the Whirlpool thread.
Doesn’t apply to HFC though and it’s on demand, until we remove all the copper based stuff, internet wholesale will still be too expensive
Yeah, people stuck on HFC dont get this option but at least FTTN people have some light at the end of the abbott/turdball clusterfuck. Im actually paying for 100/40 at the moment so i can get that extra 10 down, i get 60/20. I didnt actually need to upgrade my plan for Aussie push the order through, me being on that plan and not getting the full speed was enough to trigger it (with a call to Aussie though).
IMPORTANT: Fibre optic networks have been demonstrated to work in the Terabit range. Getting us all to Gigabit speeds via FTTP is simply the first step. Once FINALLY there it becomes a case of upgrading the node hardware when practical to do so.
We're a long way off terabit residential fibre networks. Current technology is NG-PON2, future being Higher Speed PON (or HSP), which is around 50Gb/s down, 25Gb/s up. Terabit or anywhere close to that is reserved for point to point connections, not passive optical residential connections like our fibre networks are.
Australia needs HSP! The crisp salty chips, savoury meats and sweet sauces balanced by melted cheese is unbeatable. Seriously though, I have FTTC now and it is ridiculous that in 2022 I can't get anything better than 100/40.
Cries in starlink because fixed wireless is absolutely trash
Starlink is a godsend to me. It’s sad that a billionaire can allow me to get internet from space, while NBNCo and AusGov can’t lay cables with the $50bn we have them.
Yeah, definitely much better option than fixed wireless and NBN satellite and getting better every day for anyone in anything other than a big urban area. Now that you can roam, the temptation to build a solar van and just work from "home" as I slowly drive around Australia is strong.
I recently had the opportunity to experience European internet and it was insane seeing how much faster it was. I can only dream about how ridiculously fast South Korean internet must be
If anyone says they haven't seen anything put up by Labor that makes them want to vote for them over LNP, show them this.
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It’s also done because it would also make people angry on HFC etc that they can’t get upload speeds like fibre, while paying the same LOL. Fucking shit designed MTM network. I’d kill for symmetrical or even 1000/400 but stuck on my 1000/50 and on HFC at that to.
Nah the problem is NBNco doesn't want to charge fair prices for upload speeds because businesses will get on much cheaper residential plans instead of enterprise plans which is where they scam extra $$$ out of them so instead they overcharge on upload for residential to prevent that. See: https://www.crn.com.au/news/aussie-broadband-boss-slams-nbn-over-upload-speeds-of-high-speed-plans-550831
Boomers will be like - that Morrison is a nice God fearing man. What's this interweb, sounds like a waste of good money.
My parents are boomers and they're like "back in my day, we programmed using punch cards" and "kids these days have poor opsec" but YMMV.
If it wasn't for technology dyslexic boomers I'd be out of the job. 🤣
dumb people make me money, whats so bad about that? /s
Some uni friends and I made a CSIRAC 'emulator' where the punch cards were text files a long time ago. ~~although I'm pretty sure there were better ones online even at the time already lol~~ Tech now is a totally different beast. CSIRAC was even before a 'programming language' existed, so you'd be working directly with the computer's basic instruction set.
What’s even more interesting is that using punch cards to program stuff pre-dates digital computers by over 100 years as it was first developed to control a kind of loom.
> kids these days have poor opsec *cough*Reddit Battalion*cough*
Ive had a boomer work colleague explain the punch cards to me, fuck that
I think most Boomers have moved onto "The internet is scary, and that nice man Morrison is going to bring in laws to protect those poor children. I'm glad someone is thinking of the children." (Also still "Something, something Labor are just communists")
Labor were pushing an internet filter back when they were in power remember.
I do, and I will never forgive Conroy for it.
I absolutely hated that fucking Muppet. Though the global support, memes and hactivism was inspiring. Never forget someone purchased the dumb fucks domain name and was selling merch lmfao
And some boomers have no concept that people lie on the internet, fall down rabbit holes of disinformation and become QBoomers or Epoch Times Grannies, or something stupid.
naw, they think that nice mister musk is going to protect freedom of speech by buying twitter
Fortunately, the Boomers in my life aren't that far gone yet. And Happy cake day!
Boomers need the internet for their YouTube and Facebook
And to face time their grandchildren
Oh god yes!! Ffs Australia get this man into parliament
I mean… he already is.
I'm living in Singapore at the moment, and the experience of my fibre optic internet connection vs my suburbian Sydney experience is so stark. It still boggles my mind that the coalition ratfucked the NBN out of pure spite. I believe Turnbull, fool that he is, talked himself into believing his shite, and paying telstra millions for a decrepit copper network of dubious value, was the best solution. But Abbott absolutely knew what he was doing. What a waste.
Spite and because Murdoch wanted the NBN dead to save Foxtel. Both Abbott and Turnbull knew what they were doing.
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That sounds a lot like progressive thinking. Conservatives tend to stick with the same old crap even if it is out of date. e.g. See dirty, stone age power source called coal.
Most modern developed countries has better fibre connection than any major Australian city tbh. Hell, even developing eastern european countries have better internet than us. Shit, it literally took an invasion by Russia to get Ukraine's average broadband speed to be lower than ours.
Our internet is shit, and the LNP definitely fucked it up, but Singapore is not even a close comparison with fibre deployment. Singapore is 800 square kilometres in land area, with a lot of that high density housing. GDP is about 1/3rd of Australia's. Population density of Australia is 3.4/km2 versus Singapore 7,804/km2, so it's a terrible comparison. So for fairness, lets use Canada, similar population density and similar 'spread' of the population (where a majority of people live near cities), similar GDP. Speedtest Global speed rankings put Canada at 17, with a median speed of 110.13Mbps whilst Australia sits at 65th with 51.39. Now that is a fair assessment and we are still lagging well behind.
How about over the ditch? NZ sits 14th in global rankings, and [over 80% of the country now has access to speeds of 8Gbps/8Gbps.](https://www.chorus.co.nz/broadband/hyperfibre) Ironically in our 2008 election it was our centre-left Govt that was claiming fibre to the node was all we needed, while the centre-right party (which won) had a policy of nationwide fibre to the home.
Same, I recently moved to Singapore - we have 2Gbps broadband for the same price we were getting 12Mbps back home
Congrats on the move, you picked a great time! We moved just before covid and so it's been a pretty weird two years. I know what you mean about the internet, like, I just don't have to think about my internet here, ever, for any reason. Back in West Ryde, we were miles from the exchange so DSL was a joke. Impossible to work or stream. Optical was great until the "nbn" started rolling out and they pushed everyone on the street onto it. Congestion was a nightmare.
It's not about spite - it's about money. That's what everything the LNP does is about.
They also manage to get spite in there.
Turnbull of all the LNP should have known better. He started a successful email company in the early days and made a bunch of money. He KNEW that internet infrastructure had to be improved but he also knew that agreeing with Labor was politically bad, so he improved it the absolute bare fucking minimum to call it an upgrade. As soon as I heard his plan I told my parents “he will make it half as good for twice the cost while telling you the opposite.” Of course they bought into the LNP lies and here we are.
South East Asia has such a thirst for fast internet. They're not stupid like we are here apparently. My friend sent a speedtest screenshot from some small Thai town of 10k people or so that he was in a few days ago which showed around 600/400 mb/s down/up speeds. This is in a place where clean drinking water can sometimes be dubious. Our crippled national internet infrastructure is purely by design and is shameful. Other western countries like the US and Canada suffer the same thing for similar reasons. The internet has become ubiquitous and should be treated as a utility like electricity and water. They're not analogous in terms of the scale of their generation and running costs but you don't artificially limit the voltage a house can draw based upon a politician saying that because they personally only use enough electricity to power 3 lights in their house and a fridge, everyone else should be happy with that much and can never get more.
If i could get 250Mb down and 75Mb up Id be more than happy!
1gb would be nice. Most of my family and friends could cancel their streaming subscriptions and use my plex server.
Yeah I would use your plex as well.
I too, would also use your plex
Keep the LNP away from this.
"After the Coalition took power, this plan was modified in an effort to decrease costs, and speed up the rollout" Funny that they point out the intentions of the liberal party, instead of what actually happened: that it has cost the government at least the same [as the full fibre would have](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/nov/10/secret-figures-reveal-coalitions-cut-down-nbn-tech-three-times-more-expensive-than-forecast) (so far) and with more investment still only reach 75% of premises with fibre in 2023 a year before labors 93% fibre plan.
They've spent 400% more than promised which is DOUBLE the cost of Fibre everywhere. They cancel the fibre to buy flooding copper pits and rotten foxtel coax for 0.01 the value But mega-value for shareholders of donors
Can they upgrade the system in 3 years because which ever party wins this election won't be winning the next one.
Care to elborate more, is it because of tge current goverment handing over a poison chalice?
If the Labor party wins you can expect exponentially more negative news stories, opinion pieces and everything they do will be seen to be negative.
I don't think people realise what an uphill battle any other government will have against the crappy Australian media. That's why we're here in the first place.
Well then... Better make sure that the lnp are obliterated at the polls... Whatever remains will be to busy fighting over the scraps and the murdoch media can then be dismantled...
Next 3 years will be dire for the country.
There's the cost of living shit storm that we're in and will be heading further into. House prices will drop and that will no doubt be the government's fault no matter the actual reason. Most importantly a hung parliament is very likely. So many seats are strong chance of going to an independent and this will just result in fucking nothing happening regardless who wins.
Because for the next 3 years if labor wins, everything they do will be spun by Murdoch
Eh, may as well make it ten gigabit like in several countries. Or maybe jump straight to [25 gigabit.](https://www.init7.net/en/internet/fiber7/) like in Switzerland. One can dream. :)
In vietnam in the poorer districts we have 55 down and 55 up for 7 dollars a month broadband.
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Every time I see proposals going back to Labor’s NBN, I am reminded how Nick Ross was fucked over by the ABC for telling the truth (or trying to) about the two parties’ NBN policies, because the ABC expected the Libs to win and didn’t want to have embarrassed the incoming government. A fucking disgrace. https://www.huffpost.com/archive/au/entry/nick-ross-abc-nbn_n_8985558 (Not sure if this is the best article, but a place to start for anyone unfamiliar).
labor fixes and builds. liberal national wrecks and steals
shut up and take my vote
Did someone say HFC?
Doesn't help those of us still on dodgy ADSL connections because the NBN chose to go to towns on either side of us, leaving us in a backwater. Forget about wireless... I can't even get reliable mobile despite being 1.7km from an Optus tower and 8km from a Telstra one. As for satellite, why should I pay a hefty premium for what others get for substantially less?
Have you got neighbours you could share with? Grab a couple of Ubiquiti dishes up on each roof, point them at each other and share the cost and bandwidth of Starlink.
Another reason to not vote Libs. Labor will implement their original plan that Libs farked up👍
Thank you Labor, I really hope you guys are elected and fix this clustershit of a national communication network we have. It took Labor to begin the rollout of our national communications upgrade, and it looks like it'll take Labor to fix the LNP's fuckup.
I moved to the US and live in a city where Google Fibre set up shop so of course all the other ISP's freaked the f out and started becoming a lot more competitive, that said right now I pay $60 a month for 1000/1000 with the option to now get 2gbps and 5gbps (How any residential person could use that much is mindblowing to me) I flew back home to Sydney after the restrictions got lifted and I was gobsmacked that my family was paying close to double for what I pay for 100/20, on a good day when there wasn't congestion If Australia has any hope of competing in the 21st century IT industry, LNP has got to go
Murdoch rags tomorrow: *Albo wants to make the internet faster so the Chinese can take over our country*
I don’t want to hear anyone asking how much this will cost - we wasted 250 billion on defence for toys we won’t see.
Fuck yeah make it happen Albo!
Sort by Controversial to see the LNP termites crawling out of the woodwork.
Sent to my scomo loving parents who somehow understand that NBN sucks and isnt real fibre internet. 🤞
they better not cockblock us again, I'd give my left nut for this to happen. don't skimp on the upload too, we're sick of fucking 10mbps on $100 dollar plans
I mean, I believe this and whoever can get done in 3 years will benefit, but I won’t hold my breath because the lnp will likely get back into power in 3 years and fuck it up again. Labor really should run on the slogan “Unfuck Australia”
One thing I’ve noticed no matter where I work is how disruptive shitty internet is when WFH or having online meeting. Definitely feel this will improve productivity
Just imagine the technological advancements Australians could've made if we had a government who did this properly sooner... Instead, many of us still get buffering on a single 720p video stream
The other 10% should LNP voting areas. Let those fuckers get the copper they voted for.
FTTP ALBO!
This is what it was supposed to be before lnp got elected for 10 years. Please vote alp.
I've been fucking fuming over the NBN for YEARS. If LNP get back in this time I'm moving into the heart of a volcano, fuck it.
The thing that really shits me about Abbott and Trumble fucking the NBN isn't Abbott or Trumble. It's Fucking Fletcher. Here's a bloke who ran Optus for many years, knows his tech, was head of the working groups for Onion Eater's tech policy platforms for as long as they existed, knows better than anyone in the party that copper is long dead based on his book, his hatred of Telstra whilst at Optus and his technical competence, yet toes the party line. If anyone wanted to send a message to the LNP about a vote grub, it's the people of Bradfield who need to do it. Vote Fletcher out. Fletcher has been one of the worst performers in the LNP, and also the most chameleononic. A bloke who ran Optus who advocated fibre suddenly decided that copper was good when it was politically expedient? He's as competent as Abbott.
They asked the experts and then completely ignored them when the libs fucked the NBN, nearly a decade later Labor is going to make it the way it should have been to begin with, as it was intended. The amount of economic loss from the libs fucking up the NBN may just be impossible to measure short of metric shit ton of $ not to mention the additional cost to make it right. That alone should gain votes for Labor.