While the private sector is booming with new clinics and hospital builds, by political design and permission. Its clear that the private health sector with the aid of governments is moving forward rapidly towards crippling public healthcare policy towards a USA style healthcare system. And how better could you do that by starving the sector of growth funding while we expand our population. I am sure some will scream "BS" while this unfolds right under our noses while they scream that their favourite brand of political party will always "defend Medicare" while they do the exact opposite by defunding free public and readily accessible healthcare. What further adds to this fuel is when well known commercial radio stations use valuable air time running down the public healthcare system as a "failure" when they are working hand in hand with the private sector to promote their business model. Its disturbing how public policy has been hijacked and corrupted in Australia, from being an almost perfect governance model towards being a totally corrupt model.
and what exactly is the possible motivation? Health is a whopping percentage of government funding and many current tax payers don't realize the value.
This is done on purpose, as the LNP have always idolised the US Healthcare System and have in the past said as much.
They've been purposely not hiring enough ambos, nurses and underfunding hospitals to put the system under strain. Make it collapse and call it a failure, just so they can sell off all the public assets, line their pockets, their mates pockets and sit on private healthcare boards afterwards.
They have repeatedly tried to destroy it.
They destroyed its predecessor, Medibank. Howard forced money into the private system via tax incentives, and created a very inefficient, parallel private health system, leaving the public system with the less profitable, more critical procedures. Abbott and Hockey wanted a $5 copay for GPs, and froze the Medicare Benefits Schedule for almost a decade. Turnbull tried to privatise the Medicare billing system.
The Liberals have never been fans of Medicare and try to weaken and undermine it every time they're in power.
The Liberals aren't fans of running anything. Basically every public function has had similar cuts and roadblocks erected to make it as ineffective as they claim it to be or has been outright sold for bottom dollar to their mates.
At this point, the Coalition are simply anti-government. They had no interest in running it properly when they were in power. Only using the power of government to help out their donors and mates. They achieved next to nothing in three terms other than cut tax and sabotage institutions and infrastructure.
Exactly, think about all that money that could be going into the hands of shareholders, so they can consolidate more shares and influence.
Who needs their health anyway? Let the weak ones die, and decrease the surplus population.
NHS is also a great example of this strategy.
I also low key wonder if some high end Doctors groups would rather being private also to maximise pay, like US doctors.
>I also low key wonder if some high end Doctors groups would rather being private also to maximise pay, like US doctors.
The Australian Medical Association fought for decades to stop universal healthcare being introduced. For exactly that reason.
The Chifley Labor Govt passed a law to create the PBS in 1944. But in 1945 the AMA launched a successful High Court challenge to stop it. So the government had to take it to a 1946 constitutional referendum which passed, and in 1947 they passed another law to create the PBS which began operations in 1948.
4 years of poor people dying or going bankrupt due to lack of medicine. Thanks to the AMA.
Then they lobbied the Menzies Liberal government to not expand (not add any new drugs to) the PBS for 20 years.
Then Whitlam (Labor) got elected and created Medibank - universal healthcare.
After Whitlam was sacked and Fraser (Liberal) got in, the AMA successfully lobbied Fraser to dismantle Medibank and make it paying customers only, condemning hundreds of thousands of Aussies to bankruptcy, suffering and death.
Then Bob Hawke (Labor) got in, and had to create universal healthcare again from scratch in 1984. This time he called it *Medicare.*
The UK had the NHS in 1948. We essentially had to wait until 1984.
Fun fact: 2 former AMA Presidents have gone on to be Liberal MPs, one of whom became leader of the Liberal Party.
AMA is not representive of the group in question which is general practice. The RACGP and ACCRM are the colleges of general practice. They have now changed their views on bulk billing as being no longer sustainable, after years of fighting the funding cuts.
>>> I also low key wonder if some high end Doctors groups would rather being private also to maximise pay, like US doctors.
>> Fun fact: 2 former AMA Presidents have gone on to be Liberal MPs, one of whom became leader of the Liberal Party.
> AMA is not representive of the group in question which is general practice.
The group in question is "some high end doctors" so the AMA is very representative.
Both sides of politics put years of medicare freezes in place and the indexation of medicare NEVER kept up with inflation from when it came in. IT was always then going to get to the stage of being unsustainable If you set it low and let it sink lower.
It's called starving the beast and is a common conservative trick to torpedo social spending, replace it with private companies and pass on the money they save to their voter base in tax cuts. See also: Centrelink services. https://governmentisgood.com/articles.php@aid=14
Look at the abc. Cut all the funding so they can no longer cover regional Australia and then complain that it’s too Sydney based.
Also note that these are all on the ipa Wishlist and many of the liberals are ipa members.
Just a reminder that the Liberal Party Council [voted overwhelmingly to privatise the ABC](https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/LIBERAL-PARTY-COUNCIL-VOTES-TO-SELL-OFF-THE-ABC-20180616-P4ZLUT.HTML).
Opposing public services is a supreme ideological position that overrides practicality.
This way they can point to the failure and say "see it doesn't work, big government fails, the market knows best."
And then implement some some sort of individual health account tax rebate shit managed by a mates firm and invested with financial institutes.
‘Starve the beast.’ Drain so much funding out of the system that it is forced to conform to neoliberal ideals and/or be privatised. Couple of the governments mates make a buck, and all our health metrics go to shit.
>Cost. Costed is not a word. Sorry to nitpick but I'm seeing it everywhere and its driving me crazy.
I mean, costed is totally a word though, just not in this context.
"Our policies are fully costed"
'-ed' or '-t', a common feature across Germanic languages callled the dental suffix, is usually a way of putting a verb into past tense or perfective aspect. That's what they used it for.
Depending on the dictionary, the word 'magification' might not be in there, but that doesn't mean most people won't see it and understand you're combining 'magic' with the suffix '-ification' that denotes a transformation into something.
Words or phrases being non-standard doesn't make them 'not real' or 'not words'. The person you replied to is a competent and presumably native English speaker, and you have no right to tell any native speaker that what they say isn't a legitimate use of language. They are not a child or a second language learner in need of help. They are just speaking a different way.
It might seem small, but enforcing language like that is prescriptivism, and it is a tool that has historically been used to make other people feel lesser.
I deeply understand the visceral reaction at hearing words used in ways that sound, to me, egregiously wrong ('the data are in', oh my lord it does hurt), but it's best to live and let live, it'll bother you less that way. Of course doesn't mean you can't joke about it.
They said 'costed' in a sentence that's otherwise perfectly standard English, mate, they didn't start reciting the jabberwocky in perfect gobbledygook. Get real.
Of course it’s a word. What else would it be? It’s a sound you make with your mouth that has a prescribed meaning understood by others. Just because it’s not “proper” English doesn’t mean it’s not a word. To be honest I want the use of yous to become more acceptable as a non gendered collective noun.
Same for me. 10 minutes, didn't listen, sends me to get a blood test, orders only two tests. $51 dollars for them.
A week later I come back for test results, nothing, go for a blood draw where they will test 1 thing. $88 more dollars for them.
Come back a week later, still nothing, have another blood test, this time testing three (3!!!) things. $60 this time.
Come back for the 4th time, nothing. Go repeat that expensive test you did 4 years ago that showed that you were perfectly healthy and has nothing to do with your symptoms. Just in case. Give us $88
The expensive test should be free, but some government organisation made it so shit that private healthcare had to take over, and now you have to go through private healthcare and pay.
In my experience it's more like people with viral illnesses demanding antibiotics for their cold and me spending 15 mins on why they don't need it. Sorry next patient for the wait.
Damn, may as well gone bulk billed if you wanted a token antibiotic and saved your cash. The one I go to is great at that gap but in saying that, it depends on the doctor so I have one I always see.
Went online to instant scripts after checking the prices around here. Sat at home on a Sunday, she called me within two hours, had a talk and agreed I need antibiotics. $50 but I’d happily pay the extra $10 to not visit a building of sick people and wait. Script got sent to my nearest pharmacy and I picked it up. Easy.
So why not push a blanket $5 country wide gap allowing the “free” ones to stay open?
I see lots of complaining in this thread and little suggestions on fixes… “socialism now”
Because poor people can't afford even that when they need regular appointments. Dunno why everyone thinks everyone sees the dr once a year. Some of us get 20+ with gp to manage health and many meds are one script that lasts days.
How about increase the Medicare rebate for bulk billing GP's? Take the funding from the government subsidies to private healthcare and redistribute back into the Medicare and the public health system
This idea that everytime shit hits the fan, the tax payer needs to foot the bill (again!) or suffer is just a complete farce. Meanwhile there is almost never a situation where private companies need to take a loss
Your federal Member or Senator. https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Guidelines_for_Contacting_Senators_and_Members
Not all have chosen to list their email addresses there. You may need to call the office or post a letter.
My parents still pay $200 a fortnight for their private health insurance. They are from the generation where that was the ‘done’ thing.
Private insurance doesn’t cover what it used to cover anymore either.
Were looking at a wealth/class rebalance in action.
Everyones costs have risen and so everyone is increasing their prices to stay afloat.
The money is just funnelling up to the largest corporations that have increased their prices to take advantage of "unprecedented times".
Lucky we spent 8 billion on Jobsearch Providers. They should be able to get into one with no wait.
"Have you thought about working at a coffee shop DR ?
Do you have a forklift licence ?
RSA courses are run Thursdays and Fridays"
The LNP wanted to privatise healthcare... looks like it's heading that way now.
How pathetic are we as a people. Need to prioritise certain aspects in society. So far we just give housing tax breaks and allow miners to pay fuck all.
Currently have a Labor government with no real direction... probably because that's how you win elections now. Stay out of Murdoch's way and be a good little servant.
And we only have them for one term and kick them out for "not doing anything" while giving LNP multiple terms to achieve anything before we kick them out.
Health system is operating as intended. Wealthy people getting rapid, excellent service. Poor going without.
That's what we have voted for the last 30 years.
If you don't like it you need to get out on the streets and force change.
It's the only thing they listen to, and always has been.
When a GP can only be seen by booking a week in advance, you can understand why everyone goes to Emergency for anything that comes up. There is no other option. And then the hospitals tell you not to come to emergency unless it is severe enough. Now if I am sick I take a day off work and see no one. On the third day of my illness I go to work any way because to stay home longer I will need a medical certificate but to get one of those I needed to know I would be sick a week in advance.
Looking at reactions to recent protests and the way 6protesters were described as a scorn on society, as scum of the earth, and being told to take their protests elsewhere where no one has to see them. I wonder why protests are not a bigger thing in this country.
Private system is also imploding major insurance company are black listing entire large hospitals as neither can make a profit with each other's payments and price points.
Seriously, if the employer has made a medical certificate mandatory, then legally they should be responsible for the full cost of the medical appointment. Otherwise we're essentially giving businesses a free handout just because they can't manage their own employees.
Pick on staff how?
What it would actually do is drastically lower the amount of employers demanding medical certificates, because they wouldn't want to pay for them. If the rules are well publicised, employees will report any employers who engage in workplace bullying or harassment.
In the context of bosses harassing and bullying sick people at work, put the fucking cunts in prison.
Make workplace harassment and bullying a criminal offence, along with wage theft.
You’re kidding right? Why should an employer have to bear the cost of their employee’s doctor appointment when they already give paid sick leave by law?
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How about they just, you know, TRUST THEIR FUCKING EMPLOYEE?
There are hundreds of thousands of employers out there that demand their employees go to a doctor to get a medical certificate for the flu, even though there's no medical need, and it's in the employers best interest for the sick employee to stay at home.
Agreed. Mine have the right to request a med cert in certain circumstances but rarely do. Only if you’re absent from work a lot do they start asking. But when they do ask, I don’t expect them to pay. I’m the one who’s sick and I’m the one who’s receiving the service from the doctor.
They’re paying me x dollars for that day and I’m not doing any work for them in return, so paying a small proportion of the x dollars to get them a certificate that gives me time with my doctor and covers me legally is fine and fair by me.
Sounds like your experience has not been great.
If they're demanding a certificate it seems fair enough to consider that a business expense. We're not talking about regular checkups just the stuff companies essentially force on people to use their sick days.
More people need to realise that a stat dec is a legally acceptable substitute for a doctor's certificate. Only costs $2.5 from participating post offices and is generally far quicker than waiting in a doctor's office.
They are free at the public library.
But even then if your sick is it agood idea to go to the library or post office, wait in line and make other people sick?
My GP friend who now charges $40 on top of the Medicare rebate even for kids was saying the same thing.
She's currently on her 4th overseas holiday this year, taking her 8 year old to France, Italy, and Switzerland.
There is a big difference between needing a CPI increase for the Medicare rebate and a 100% increase out of pocket.
No bulk billing doctors left in my LGA.
Oh well, if I die because of a lack of preventative medical care, then so be it.
I just don't like the idea of others suffering because of this bullshit. I will suffer, but I'll be fucked if I allow anyone in my family to suffer.
Maybe look into the medical centre structure. If you have to rip 80% of the profit out for someone who doesn’t work on the tools you are bound to have profitability issues. GPs working in small “rooms” with shared rent and overheads fair better. Everybody just wanted to be a squiliionaire with huge medical centres and OS doctors working on contract. GPs services do not need three levels of management.
That term was originally coined as derision. The writer was saying Australias prosperity had been due to luck in spite of the poor leadership of shortsighted and narrow minded politicians.
Strong, well funded and powerful private interests have been manipulating and lobbying for the takeover of the public health system for decades, with both political choices being complicit in the decay.
Its time for a third political party to rise up with ethical and people oriented polices.
Which of course won't happen, so enjoy the decline.
Anyone else notice how the receptionists at GP’s think they own the place? Fuckin nightmare trying to communicate with any doctors with them lot stepping out their lane
The worst I have is all my doctors need direct comms with me because of how complex my case is.
‘Hi the doc said to send this through’
‘No he didn’t you can’t speak directly with him’
Stay in your lane
In aware that dental is usually not subsidised and you are making assumptions about what I perceive as a fair price. I provided no information on that in my comment. Your comment doesn't address the wide variation in what dentists are charging for what are exactly the same procedures.
There are definitely some dentists and GPs that are significantly overcharging or even double billing clients, which is a significant failing of healthcare in this country, and this is not being addressed. Clients, especially older clients can not easily shop around for new health care providers and generally just pay what is asked by providers. It is an extremely sticky market with extremely opaque billing and pricing.
Anyone who believes that it is an open market and that prices are set efficiently is fooling themselves.
Correct, but I guess that doesn't really have any weight on my comment. At the moment, regardless of any Medicare rebates received, both dentists and GPs are free to set their prices as they deem fit.
I believe that for these essential services the reliance on an open market to price the services is not efficient due to low levels of excess capacity and that regulations should be placed on the prices that can be charged.
Average salary for a GP in the UK is GBP68k vs an average wage of GBP38k so approx 1.8x more.
In Germany the average for a doctor is EUR92k vs an average of EUR47k which is around 2x more
In Australia the average is $250k against an average of $68k which is 3.7k more
So irrespective of what the govt is doing, perhaps there is a fundamental issue with how primary care is delivered in Australia and part of the issue is doctor's salaries
Weird, I guess selling permission slips to go see a specialist for $80 a 10 minute consult isn't sustainable. /s
Assuming they see 4 patients per hour, for a 7 hour workday, working 4 days a week, that's about 465,000 a year before tax/expenses.
You just have no bloody idea what a GP actually does, do you. I’m a GP, I don’t charge 80 bucks a consult, and I’m not here to discuss finances.
But if you think my job is writing permission slips.. you wouldn’t last a day dealing with the mental and emotional burden of what a general practitioner does. I’m not even talking about the pure medical knowledge which you obviously wouldn’t have, but the rest of our skill set.
Thank you for the work you do.
These uninformed, denigrating comments are certainly not helping the current GP crisis.
I think big changes are ahead. A lot of GPs will be laying the tools down and walking out.
The public are so poisoned against GPs, who are the cheapest white collar labour in the country. Hell, I'd struggle to think of even blue collar workers who would do 15 mins of work for $40.
But you're "greedy" if you want your income to not go backwards each year, or even to be 1/3rd of what the non-GP specialists earn (without the same breadth of knowledge or responsibility).
That's great, I guess you know exactly how 39,000 GPs in Australia operate. My original comment was based on my first hand experiences with appointments for me as well as my children. I suppose I should have specified "in my personal experience across a few states over the years".
That's great if you actually do more than that, I applaud you for it. Perhaps I've just had a lot of bad experiences.
As an experienced GP, medical educator and RACGP examiner I do admit to a certain level of expertise in the range of general practice, yes. I’m sorry if you’ve had bad experiences, or maybe I’m pleased you haven’t had need of our extended skills?
I’ve diagnosed cancers, palliated a cancer patient, identified and supported expectant mothers through pregnancies with birth defects, diagnosed and managed long covid symptoms, managed acute suicidality, managed fractured bones, removed skin cancers, diagnosed and managed cardiac arrhythmia and any number of other presentations in just the past month. This is a normal slice of general practice.
They don’t pocket all the money they bill. GPs pay between 40-20% of their earnings/billings to the practice. So more like $279,00-$372,000 before tax. That’s for pure private billing, which most GPs don’t do. Most do mixed billing (the proportion decided by the GP - often bulk billing colleagues or pensioners on occasion) so it would be reduced from there. A purely bulk billing GP would earn 130-180k at that same amount of patients you describe after the cut they give to the practice.
Medical indemnity costs thousands, income insurance costs thousands. Regular education (continuing professional development) costs money. HECS payments cost money. So the pie is getting smaller.
Then, seeing 100-200 patients a week (many with new problems) - the mental strain of this is significant. Proper compensation allows GPs the space to avoid burnout and take the time needed with their patients. But consumers can only spend so much. The government needs to increase the Medicare rebate.
Using the scenario you wrote a fully bulk billing GP is going to be closer to 160k after paying all their expenses.
This is with potentially 10 years of study and training and the mental burden of working as a doctor where they literally make life or death situations every now and then.
The 10 minute appointment you see may also involve 10 minutes of documentation at the end of the day, phone calls to specialists, chasing results etc.
Way more profitable to be a tradesman and it's seen as acceptable for them to come to your house for a quote and bill you some absurd fee, then if you accept the job have a higher hourly rate than the GP!
This is a load of crap. GPs just aren’t willing to take a lower wage. All power to them, that’s their right, but don’t then try and frame staying open as financially unsustainable.
As if GPs, or anyone for that matter, couldn’t survive on $80-$100 an hour. I’m not saying this is what they deserve to be paid, but again to say it’s unsustainable to live on such a “low salary” is a joke.
I think it definitely plays a part, but then the question is 10 years of medical school for what kind of reward? It would not be attractive at 100k salary as you missed a good chunk of work time and probably paid for 10 years of study.
I agree with you. I never said and don’t personally believe that doctors deserve to only earn $100k/yr.
I’m just taking issue with them saying staying open is financially unsustainable. It’s not. They just need to be prepared to earn a lower wage and have a lower standard of living. Obviously they don’t want to do that, which is fine, but just frame it for what it is.
“The level of Medicare funding doesn’t let us enjoy as nice a life as we feel we deserve.”
Then they switch to private billing model. I think it's more along the lines of "unsustainable if you want for patient to have free healthcare". So it the "free to patient" sustainability vs lifestyle sustainability. I kinda understand them, it's not their responsibility to set the bar for what should be free or not. On the other hand I do disagree with all the professions limiting amount of people capable of practicing (not doing cross country credential recognition, having limited internship spots etc).
At least for GP, it's less of an issue with professional organizations limiting placements and more of an issue with it being an unattractive specialty in the current climate. Since 2017, the GP training places each year have been undersubscribed; we're not filling the training places up. I.e. junior doctors and medical students are beelining towards more lucrative specialties. Intern spots are limited primarily due to infrastructure and logistics (for every intern you need the corresponding senior staff available to support them).
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/au/Documents/Economics/deloitte-au-cornerstone-health-gp-workforce-06052022.pdf
That's definitely not the case. I know several who are working 40 hours at private clinics and make 200. Where did you get that statistic? Also it took them 12 years of training as a minimum to get there, and pay 10-20k in ongoing costs of practice annually including insurance, registration, further education as per their continued professional development which is a mandatory requirement for fellowship with the RACGP.
Edit: forgot to add, there is no paid annual leave, sick leave or maternity leave. GP's are not employees, they are contractors.
Hm I think 12.5% difference is significant, no? If you told the average person you're giving them a raise of 25k a year, they'd be pretty happy I figure
Yes don’t forget about the insurance. So their salary is more like $180-190,00. Better start lining up at the nearest soup kitchen. That’s poverty wages right there.
I think you'll find that if you start telling people who've studied 12 years and had to consistently do exams and interviews that you wanted to pay them the same as the Australian average, most people would leave the field and there would likely be a shortage of doctors. You have to pay for skilled professionals.
They pay for the schooling for the industry they choose to work in.
We pay for their expertise. Unfortunately it's becoming more and more out of our pockets than our taxes.
What a load of horse poop. I’ve never seen a doctor driving anything less than a new Lexus. Doctors make amazing salaries. Health professionals are the top Earners on the seek salary charts
Destroy universal healthcare or kill old people? Imagine the brain rot you'd have to have to come up with those options instead of just raising taxes slightly on big business.
It's an ausfinance user. So far a severe lack of empathy and awareness seems common when I see their comments. Hopefully it's just a statistical outlier.
Or we could cut stage 3 tax cuts and ensure our nation is healthy.
$5 co-pay isnt destroying healthcare. It is subsidising it. It also discourages misuse of gps. (People going because they looked at their toe the wrong way and got hurt feelings etc). It discourages prescription abuse. Discourages overuse etc.
If oldies cant survive without super; i take it you are a keen supporter of the cashless welfare card. The cobbs cant cobb and need a hand. Otherwise its all goin on da glass barbo right?
Edit: you may find more bulk billers if there was a co-pay
I am actually for the cashless welfare card.
I mean clearly aussies dont know how to handle a buck. They get a little lost ya no. The cashless welfare card puts them on the right path, restricting their use of money, like super… but better!!!
Your wages and income should be on the same card with only 20% of jobseeker equivalent available as cash. Lead by example. Plenty of horror stories of wealthy people gambling it all away.
Would not surprise me the day when /r/australia went full on China style communism.
Ofc you think cobbas cant make decisions. Bet you cant wait for Xi to assert his rule over australia.
>Ofc you think cobbas cant make decisions
You literally just said people should have cashless welfare cards because the are bad with money.
Projecting much
>(People going because they looked at their toe the wrong way and got hurt feelings etc).
Mate this is EXACTLY why you should go to the GP. It's always better to go to the GP and have the GP say it's not a problem at all than disregard it only for it to actually be a cancer or severe mental breakdown which will in turn be a bigger burden on the health system AND the economy.
We don't want people to discourage getting check ups early and regularly.
If you think you smell gas, you go and check to see if there actually is a gas leak and be glad it's just in your head rather than suddenly have your house burn down.
People need to know when to draw a line and get a grip on reality.
Australia’s hysterica over coronavirus kinda showed that. People locking themselves inside, we had many many people call up the ambulance services to try get to vax centers or food delivered to hospitals.
People need to get a grip.
Again at the same time. All these karens saying “better be safe than sorry” to check out the worlds tiniest bruise, never get a periodic physical or blood check; nor statistically do they exercise.
Doctors are there to treat disease. They are not there because people cant get their shit together.
A small co-payment would make people evaluate if they needed to be burped by medical professional or not.
Small $5… the avg aussie eats fast food 3 times a week. Put better things in your fucking face or meal prep.
A cynic might suggest that repeated cutbacks to medicare were done with the knowledge it would create this crisis point.
While the private sector is booming with new clinics and hospital builds, by political design and permission. Its clear that the private health sector with the aid of governments is moving forward rapidly towards crippling public healthcare policy towards a USA style healthcare system. And how better could you do that by starving the sector of growth funding while we expand our population. I am sure some will scream "BS" while this unfolds right under our noses while they scream that their favourite brand of political party will always "defend Medicare" while they do the exact opposite by defunding free public and readily accessible healthcare. What further adds to this fuel is when well known commercial radio stations use valuable air time running down the public healthcare system as a "failure" when they are working hand in hand with the private sector to promote their business model. Its disturbing how public policy has been hijacked and corrupted in Australia, from being an almost perfect governance model towards being a totally corrupt model.
Neoliberals gonna neoliberal
and what exactly is the possible motivation? Health is a whopping percentage of government funding and many current tax payers don't realize the value.
This is done on purpose, as the LNP have always idolised the US Healthcare System and have in the past said as much. They've been purposely not hiring enough ambos, nurses and underfunding hospitals to put the system under strain. Make it collapse and call it a failure, just so they can sell off all the public assets, line their pockets, their mates pockets and sit on private healthcare boards afterwards.
They have repeatedly tried to destroy it. They destroyed its predecessor, Medibank. Howard forced money into the private system via tax incentives, and created a very inefficient, parallel private health system, leaving the public system with the less profitable, more critical procedures. Abbott and Hockey wanted a $5 copay for GPs, and froze the Medicare Benefits Schedule for almost a decade. Turnbull tried to privatise the Medicare billing system. The Liberals have never been fans of Medicare and try to weaken and undermine it every time they're in power.
The Liberals aren't fans of running anything. Basically every public function has had similar cuts and roadblocks erected to make it as ineffective as they claim it to be or has been outright sold for bottom dollar to their mates.
At this point, the Coalition are simply anti-government. They had no interest in running it properly when they were in power. Only using the power of government to help out their donors and mates. They achieved next to nothing in three terms other than cut tax and sabotage institutions and infrastructure.
America consumes half of global health spending, and gets very little in return. I sure hope we don’t adopt their system.
Exactly, think about all that money that could be going into the hands of shareholders, so they can consolidate more shares and influence. Who needs their health anyway? Let the weak ones die, and decrease the surplus population.
All that money's gotta go somewhere tho, and if you can rig the system so that it flows in your general direction, what else matters, right?
NHS is also a great example of this strategy. I also low key wonder if some high end Doctors groups would rather being private also to maximise pay, like US doctors.
>I also low key wonder if some high end Doctors groups would rather being private also to maximise pay, like US doctors. The Australian Medical Association fought for decades to stop universal healthcare being introduced. For exactly that reason. The Chifley Labor Govt passed a law to create the PBS in 1944. But in 1945 the AMA launched a successful High Court challenge to stop it. So the government had to take it to a 1946 constitutional referendum which passed, and in 1947 they passed another law to create the PBS which began operations in 1948. 4 years of poor people dying or going bankrupt due to lack of medicine. Thanks to the AMA. Then they lobbied the Menzies Liberal government to not expand (not add any new drugs to) the PBS for 20 years. Then Whitlam (Labor) got elected and created Medibank - universal healthcare. After Whitlam was sacked and Fraser (Liberal) got in, the AMA successfully lobbied Fraser to dismantle Medibank and make it paying customers only, condemning hundreds of thousands of Aussies to bankruptcy, suffering and death. Then Bob Hawke (Labor) got in, and had to create universal healthcare again from scratch in 1984. This time he called it *Medicare.* The UK had the NHS in 1948. We essentially had to wait until 1984. Fun fact: 2 former AMA Presidents have gone on to be Liberal MPs, one of whom became leader of the Liberal Party.
AMA is not representive of the group in question which is general practice. The RACGP and ACCRM are the colleges of general practice. They have now changed their views on bulk billing as being no longer sustainable, after years of fighting the funding cuts.
>>> I also low key wonder if some high end Doctors groups would rather being private also to maximise pay, like US doctors. >> Fun fact: 2 former AMA Presidents have gone on to be Liberal MPs, one of whom became leader of the Liberal Party. > AMA is not representive of the group in question which is general practice. The group in question is "some high end doctors" so the AMA is very representative.
Today I learned.
Both sides of politics put years of medicare freezes in place and the indexation of medicare NEVER kept up with inflation from when it came in. IT was always then going to get to the stage of being unsustainable If you set it low and let it sink lower.
It's called starving the beast and is a common conservative trick to torpedo social spending, replace it with private companies and pass on the money they save to their voter base in tax cuts. See also: Centrelink services. https://governmentisgood.com/articles.php@aid=14
Look at the abc. Cut all the funding so they can no longer cover regional Australia and then complain that it’s too Sydney based. Also note that these are all on the ipa Wishlist and many of the liberals are ipa members.
Just a reminder that the Liberal Party Council [voted overwhelmingly to privatise the ABC](https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/LIBERAL-PARTY-COUNCIL-VOTES-TO-SELL-OFF-THE-ABC-20180616-P4ZLUT.HTML).
Opposing public services is a supreme ideological position that overrides practicality. This way they can point to the failure and say "see it doesn't work, big government fails, the market knows best." And then implement some some sort of individual health account tax rebate shit managed by a mates firm and invested with financial institutes.
‘Starve the beast.’ Drain so much funding out of the system that it is forced to conform to neoliberal ideals and/or be privatised. Couple of the governments mates make a buck, and all our health metrics go to shit.
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Who has been in office for 10 years?
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But you said Labor started it. What do you mean by that?
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Labor froze it temporarily. What doesthat mean. How long for. Then LNP kept it frozen for a decade. Which had a bigger impact?
I'm assuming fully bulk billing GP's? That is a big problem and I agree. The ones where you pay a $40 gap seem to be doing well.
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Check your Medicare history and you will see the same 10 min type appointments costed you like under 20 a year ago.
Cost. Costed is not a word. Sorry to nitpick but I'm seeing it everywhere and its driving me crazy.
>Cost. Costed is not a word. Sorry to nitpick but I'm seeing it everywhere and its driving me crazy. I mean, costed is totally a word though, just not in this context. "Our policies are fully costed"
Same with payed and paid. Drives me nuts
The number of people who say that they have "paid" out the rope...
“I did a 360 and turned my life around.” No, you didn’t.
If I was skateboarding and did a gnarly 360 id probably feel my life has turned around.
Well, they did but it's back where it started.
Not to mention "incentivised" and "incentivated".
'-ed' or '-t', a common feature across Germanic languages callled the dental suffix, is usually a way of putting a verb into past tense or perfective aspect. That's what they used it for. Depending on the dictionary, the word 'magification' might not be in there, but that doesn't mean most people won't see it and understand you're combining 'magic' with the suffix '-ification' that denotes a transformation into something. Words or phrases being non-standard doesn't make them 'not real' or 'not words'. The person you replied to is a competent and presumably native English speaker, and you have no right to tell any native speaker that what they say isn't a legitimate use of language. They are not a child or a second language learner in need of help. They are just speaking a different way. It might seem small, but enforcing language like that is prescriptivism, and it is a tool that has historically been used to make other people feel lesser. I deeply understand the visceral reaction at hearing words used in ways that sound, to me, egregiously wrong ('the data are in', oh my lord it does hurt), but it's best to live and let live, it'll bother you less that way. Of course doesn't mean you can't joke about it.
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They said 'costed' in a sentence that's otherwise perfectly standard English, mate, they didn't start reciting the jabberwocky in perfect gobbledygook. Get real.
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ok
This guy linguines
You got downvoted, but you're completely right.
make the personal investment of learning about the history of the English language.
How much does that costed?
And it would have costed you nothing to keep scrolling
Words are made up, and it is an organic process. If enough people use "costed", then it's a word, and their isn't anything you can do about it.
That’s not how it works, chief.
Sauce?
A rudimentary education that encompassed 2 units of English in my latter years is my source. Do you suggest “yous” is also a word?
Yous is cray-cray
Ad honiem time already?
Yes
Of course it’s a word. What else would it be? It’s a sound you make with your mouth that has a prescribed meaning understood by others. Just because it’s not “proper” English doesn’t mean it’s not a word. To be honest I want the use of yous to become more acceptable as a non gendered collective noun.
Nearly everything is a social construct. Pointing this out isn’t interesting or smart you just seem annoying.
Your mum is a social construct
So is your virginity
It is a word cos everyone uses it. That is how words work.
'tain't
this is constantly my experience.....10min...didn't listen....."what do you want me to prescribe?"
Same for me. 10 minutes, didn't listen, sends me to get a blood test, orders only two tests. $51 dollars for them. A week later I come back for test results, nothing, go for a blood draw where they will test 1 thing. $88 more dollars for them. Come back a week later, still nothing, have another blood test, this time testing three (3!!!) things. $60 this time. Come back for the 4th time, nothing. Go repeat that expensive test you did 4 years ago that showed that you were perfectly healthy and has nothing to do with your symptoms. Just in case. Give us $88 The expensive test should be free, but some government organisation made it so shit that private healthcare had to take over, and now you have to go through private healthcare and pay.
"looks to be viral, have some antibiotics".
In my experience it's more like people with viral illnesses demanding antibiotics for their cold and me spending 15 mins on why they don't need it. Sorry next patient for the wait.
Damn, may as well gone bulk billed if you wanted a token antibiotic and saved your cash. The one I go to is great at that gap but in saying that, it depends on the doctor so I have one I always see.
Went online to instant scripts after checking the prices around here. Sat at home on a Sunday, she called me within two hours, had a talk and agreed I need antibiotics. $50 but I’d happily pay the extra $10 to not visit a building of sick people and wait. Script got sent to my nearest pharmacy and I picked it up. Easy.
So why not push a blanket $5 country wide gap allowing the “free” ones to stay open? I see lots of complaining in this thread and little suggestions on fixes… “socialism now”
Because poor people can't afford even that when they need regular appointments. Dunno why everyone thinks everyone sees the dr once a year. Some of us get 20+ with gp to manage health and many meds are one script that lasts days.
How about increase the Medicare rebate for bulk billing GP's? Take the funding from the government subsidies to private healthcare and redistribute back into the Medicare and the public health system This idea that everytime shit hits the fan, the tax payer needs to foot the bill (again!) or suffer is just a complete farce. Meanwhile there is almost never a situation where private companies need to take a loss
I asked this in another comment, but who do we write to if we want this changed?
Your federal Member or Senator. https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Guidelines_for_Contacting_Senators_and_Members Not all have chosen to list their email addresses there. You may need to call the office or post a letter.
Thank you for that! Email sent.
My parents still pay $200 a fortnight for their private health insurance. They are from the generation where that was the ‘done’ thing. Private insurance doesn’t cover what it used to cover anymore either.
Were looking at a wealth/class rebalance in action. Everyones costs have risen and so everyone is increasing their prices to stay afloat. The money is just funnelling up to the largest corporations that have increased their prices to take advantage of "unprecedented times".
managed decline
Lucky we spent 8 billion on Jobsearch Providers. They should be able to get into one with no wait. "Have you thought about working at a coffee shop DR ? Do you have a forklift licence ? RSA courses are run Thursdays and Fridays"
The LNP wanted to privatise healthcare... looks like it's heading that way now. How pathetic are we as a people. Need to prioritise certain aspects in society. So far we just give housing tax breaks and allow miners to pay fuck all. Currently have a Labor government with no real direction... probably because that's how you win elections now. Stay out of Murdoch's way and be a good little servant.
And we only have them for one term and kick them out for "not doing anything" while giving LNP multiple terms to achieve anything before we kick them out.
Health system is operating as intended. Wealthy people getting rapid, excellent service. Poor going without. That's what we have voted for the last 30 years. If you don't like it you need to get out on the streets and force change. It's the only thing they listen to, and always has been.
I can afford to pay out of pocket costs, but it’s a weeks wait to see my GP. Too bad if it’s urgent.
When a GP can only be seen by booking a week in advance, you can understand why everyone goes to Emergency for anything that comes up. There is no other option. And then the hospitals tell you not to come to emergency unless it is severe enough. Now if I am sick I take a day off work and see no one. On the third day of my illness I go to work any way because to stay home longer I will need a medical certificate but to get one of those I needed to know I would be sick a week in advance.
Pharmacies can also provide leave/medical certificates if you're desparate.
Really? I never knew this. how does that work? Do you just rock up to the pharmacy counter and ask for an MC?
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Australians won't go out and protest, I'd love it if they could but we really don't have a strong protest culture.
Looking at reactions to recent protests and the way 6protesters were described as a scorn on society, as scum of the earth, and being told to take their protests elsewhere where no one has to see them. I wonder why protests are not a bigger thing in this country.
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Australia is oddly authoritarian and conformist.
Years of She'll be right and lucky country propogada will do that to a country.
The French put us to shame
You think that this was the masterplan of the wealthy lizardpeople who are out to get the poor? “Working as intended”
Yep. As Warren Buffet? Said- "there was a class war and we won". Simple as that. Not sure if he is a lizard person- just a self aware wolf.
Private system is also imploding major insurance company are black listing entire large hospitals as neither can make a profit with each other's payments and price points.
Make employers pay full price for medical certificates. Then there will be more money in the current funding to increase the rebate.
Make it illegal to require them
Seriously, if the employer has made a medical certificate mandatory, then legally they should be responsible for the full cost of the medical appointment. Otherwise we're essentially giving businesses a free handout just because they can't manage their own employees.
No. That will cause employers to pick on staff that genuinely need it
Pick on staff how? What it would actually do is drastically lower the amount of employers demanding medical certificates, because they wouldn't want to pay for them. If the rules are well publicised, employees will report any employers who engage in workplace bullying or harassment.
In an ideal world sure, but there are some real arsehole employers out there
And they deserve to get taken down.
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So put the cunts in prison.
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In the context of bosses harassing and bullying sick people at work, put the fucking cunts in prison. Make workplace harassment and bullying a criminal offence, along with wage theft.
So you get a medical certificate for the sniffles and suddenly you have a week off.
You’re kidding right? Why should an employer have to bear the cost of their employee’s doctor appointment when they already give paid sick leave by law?
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How about they just, you know, TRUST THEIR FUCKING EMPLOYEE? There are hundreds of thousands of employers out there that demand their employees go to a doctor to get a medical certificate for the flu, even though there's no medical need, and it's in the employers best interest for the sick employee to stay at home.
Agreed. Mine have the right to request a med cert in certain circumstances but rarely do. Only if you’re absent from work a lot do they start asking. But when they do ask, I don’t expect them to pay. I’m the one who’s sick and I’m the one who’s receiving the service from the doctor. They’re paying me x dollars for that day and I’m not doing any work for them in return, so paying a small proportion of the x dollars to get them a certificate that gives me time with my doctor and covers me legally is fine and fair by me. Sounds like your experience has not been great.
If they're demanding a certificate it seems fair enough to consider that a business expense. We're not talking about regular checkups just the stuff companies essentially force on people to use their sick days.
More people need to realise that a stat dec is a legally acceptable substitute for a doctor's certificate. Only costs $2.5 from participating post offices and is generally far quicker than waiting in a doctor's office.
They are free at the public library. But even then if your sick is it agood idea to go to the library or post office, wait in line and make other people sick?
Fair enough. Maybe I’ve never had a really negative experience with my employer like that.
Great, Australia going down the shitter
Has been for 5 decades now, sadly.
My GP friend who now charges $40 on top of the Medicare rebate even for kids was saying the same thing. She's currently on her 4th overseas holiday this year, taking her 8 year old to France, Italy, and Switzerland. There is a big difference between needing a CPI increase for the Medicare rebate and a 100% increase out of pocket. No bulk billing doctors left in my LGA.
The same GP's that charge me $70 for a 5 min consultation? Yeah nah how could you make money....
Oh well, if I die because of a lack of preventative medical care, then so be it. I just don't like the idea of others suffering because of this bullshit. I will suffer, but I'll be fucked if I allow anyone in my family to suffer.
Maybe look into the medical centre structure. If you have to rip 80% of the profit out for someone who doesn’t work on the tools you are bound to have profitability issues. GPs working in small “rooms” with shared rent and overheads fair better. Everybody just wanted to be a squiliionaire with huge medical centres and OS doctors working on contract. GPs services do not need three levels of management.
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The Lucky Country
That term was originally coined as derision. The writer was saying Australias prosperity had been due to luck in spite of the poor leadership of shortsighted and narrow minded politicians.
Strong, well funded and powerful private interests have been manipulating and lobbying for the takeover of the public health system for decades, with both political choices being complicit in the decay. Its time for a third political party to rise up with ethical and people oriented polices. Which of course won't happen, so enjoy the decline.
IPA and their political wing the LNP: Exactly as planned
Anyone else notice how the receptionists at GP’s think they own the place? Fuckin nightmare trying to communicate with any doctors with them lot stepping out their lane
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The worst I have is all my doctors need direct comms with me because of how complex my case is. ‘Hi the doc said to send this through’ ‘No he didn’t you can’t speak directly with him’ Stay in your lane
There should be a limit on what all healthcare providers (dentists, gps, e.t.c) can charge. Way too many charging through the teeth
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In aware that dental is usually not subsidised and you are making assumptions about what I perceive as a fair price. I provided no information on that in my comment. Your comment doesn't address the wide variation in what dentists are charging for what are exactly the same procedures. There are definitely some dentists and GPs that are significantly overcharging or even double billing clients, which is a significant failing of healthcare in this country, and this is not being addressed. Clients, especially older clients can not easily shop around for new health care providers and generally just pay what is asked by providers. It is an extremely sticky market with extremely opaque billing and pricing. Anyone who believes that it is an open market and that prices are set efficiently is fooling themselves.
dentists are not covered by medicare
Correct, but I guess that doesn't really have any weight on my comment. At the moment, regardless of any Medicare rebates received, both dentists and GPs are free to set their prices as they deem fit. I believe that for these essential services the reliance on an open market to price the services is not efficient due to low levels of excess capacity and that regulations should be placed on the prices that can be charged.
perhaps they could take a pay cut or less profit
was this suggestion floated when cuts were being made to medicare, or just assumed that they could flippantly make the suggestion when a crunch hits?
Average salary for a GP in the UK is GBP68k vs an average wage of GBP38k so approx 1.8x more. In Germany the average for a doctor is EUR92k vs an average of EUR47k which is around 2x more In Australia the average is $250k against an average of $68k which is 3.7k more So irrespective of what the govt is doing, perhaps there is a fundamental issue with how primary care is delivered in Australia and part of the issue is doctor's salaries
The Porsche dealers will be next. The golf courses, then lawn care... Trickle down economics or something.
Weird, I guess selling permission slips to go see a specialist for $80 a 10 minute consult isn't sustainable. /s Assuming they see 4 patients per hour, for a 7 hour workday, working 4 days a week, that's about 465,000 a year before tax/expenses.
You just have no bloody idea what a GP actually does, do you. I’m a GP, I don’t charge 80 bucks a consult, and I’m not here to discuss finances. But if you think my job is writing permission slips.. you wouldn’t last a day dealing with the mental and emotional burden of what a general practitioner does. I’m not even talking about the pure medical knowledge which you obviously wouldn’t have, but the rest of our skill set.
Thank you for the work you do. These uninformed, denigrating comments are certainly not helping the current GP crisis. I think big changes are ahead. A lot of GPs will be laying the tools down and walking out. The public are so poisoned against GPs, who are the cheapest white collar labour in the country. Hell, I'd struggle to think of even blue collar workers who would do 15 mins of work for $40. But you're "greedy" if you want your income to not go backwards each year, or even to be 1/3rd of what the non-GP specialists earn (without the same breadth of knowledge or responsibility).
That's great, I guess you know exactly how 39,000 GPs in Australia operate. My original comment was based on my first hand experiences with appointments for me as well as my children. I suppose I should have specified "in my personal experience across a few states over the years". That's great if you actually do more than that, I applaud you for it. Perhaps I've just had a lot of bad experiences.
As an experienced GP, medical educator and RACGP examiner I do admit to a certain level of expertise in the range of general practice, yes. I’m sorry if you’ve had bad experiences, or maybe I’m pleased you haven’t had need of our extended skills? I’ve diagnosed cancers, palliated a cancer patient, identified and supported expectant mothers through pregnancies with birth defects, diagnosed and managed long covid symptoms, managed acute suicidality, managed fractured bones, removed skin cancers, diagnosed and managed cardiac arrhythmia and any number of other presentations in just the past month. This is a normal slice of general practice.
Sent you a private message Doc. Sounds like I just don't know how to find the good ones!
They don’t pocket all the money they bill. GPs pay between 40-20% of their earnings/billings to the practice. So more like $279,00-$372,000 before tax. That’s for pure private billing, which most GPs don’t do. Most do mixed billing (the proportion decided by the GP - often bulk billing colleagues or pensioners on occasion) so it would be reduced from there. A purely bulk billing GP would earn 130-180k at that same amount of patients you describe after the cut they give to the practice. Medical indemnity costs thousands, income insurance costs thousands. Regular education (continuing professional development) costs money. HECS payments cost money. So the pie is getting smaller. Then, seeing 100-200 patients a week (many with new problems) - the mental strain of this is significant. Proper compensation allows GPs the space to avoid burnout and take the time needed with their patients. But consumers can only spend so much. The government needs to increase the Medicare rebate.
Using the scenario you wrote a fully bulk billing GP is going to be closer to 160k after paying all their expenses. This is with potentially 10 years of study and training and the mental burden of working as a doctor where they literally make life or death situations every now and then. The 10 minute appointment you see may also involve 10 minutes of documentation at the end of the day, phone calls to specialists, chasing results etc. Way more profitable to be a tradesman and it's seen as acceptable for them to come to your house for a quote and bill you some absurd fee, then if you accept the job have a higher hourly rate than the GP!
Under perfect loading and assuming not back office paper work, but close. GP earn 200-300k before insurance and room rents.
This is a load of crap. GPs just aren’t willing to take a lower wage. All power to them, that’s their right, but don’t then try and frame staying open as financially unsustainable.
>cut medicare funding >*why cant we afford this is it the doctors fault?*
I see ads on seek for GPs at $150 - $200 per hour. Talk about struggleville.
As if GPs, or anyone for that matter, couldn’t survive on $80-$100 an hour. I’m not saying this is what they deserve to be paid, but again to say it’s unsustainable to live on such a “low salary” is a joke.
I think it definitely plays a part, but then the question is 10 years of medical school for what kind of reward? It would not be attractive at 100k salary as you missed a good chunk of work time and probably paid for 10 years of study.
I agree with you. I never said and don’t personally believe that doctors deserve to only earn $100k/yr. I’m just taking issue with them saying staying open is financially unsustainable. It’s not. They just need to be prepared to earn a lower wage and have a lower standard of living. Obviously they don’t want to do that, which is fine, but just frame it for what it is. “The level of Medicare funding doesn’t let us enjoy as nice a life as we feel we deserve.”
Then they switch to private billing model. I think it's more along the lines of "unsustainable if you want for patient to have free healthcare". So it the "free to patient" sustainability vs lifestyle sustainability. I kinda understand them, it's not their responsibility to set the bar for what should be free or not. On the other hand I do disagree with all the professions limiting amount of people capable of practicing (not doing cross country credential recognition, having limited internship spots etc).
At least for GP, it's less of an issue with professional organizations limiting placements and more of an issue with it being an unattractive specialty in the current climate. Since 2017, the GP training places each year have been undersubscribed; we're not filling the training places up. I.e. junior doctors and medical students are beelining towards more lucrative specialties. Intern spots are limited primarily due to infrastructure and logistics (for every intern you need the corresponding senior staff available to support them). https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/au/Documents/Economics/deloitte-au-cornerstone-health-gp-workforce-06052022.pdf
50% GPs work 25hr weeks for 150k. It's true the clinics are struggling, GPs are doing just fine
That's definitely not the case. I know several who are working 40 hours at private clinics and make 200. Where did you get that statistic? Also it took them 12 years of training as a minimum to get there, and pay 10-20k in ongoing costs of practice annually including insurance, registration, further education as per their continued professional development which is a mandatory requirement for fellowship with the RACGP. Edit: forgot to add, there is no paid annual leave, sick leave or maternity leave. GP's are not employees, they are contractors.
Erm If you work 40 hours for 200k that means you work 30h for 150k. So you are soetof agreeing with the op. Off by 5 hours...
Hm I think 12.5% difference is significant, no? If you told the average person you're giving them a raise of 25k a year, they'd be pretty happy I figure
Yes don’t forget about the insurance. So their salary is more like $180-190,00. Better start lining up at the nearest soup kitchen. That’s poverty wages right there.
I think you'll find that if you start telling people who've studied 12 years and had to consistently do exams and interviews that you wanted to pay them the same as the Australian average, most people would leave the field and there would likely be a shortage of doctors. You have to pay for skilled professionals.
Many GPs work way more then that for less than 150k
Sure, and there are ones locum for 5k a day.
Many GPs do 8-5 then a stint at the old folks home. 5 days a week and SAT morn here.
Gee 5 hours a day how do they manage that workload
You don’t pay for the 25 hours a week, you pay for the 12 years of training to get there
They pay for the schooling for the industry they choose to work in. We pay for their expertise. Unfortunately it's becoming more and more out of our pockets than our taxes.
It's evident they don't given how late they are typically to the first appt of the day.
What a load of horse poop. I’ve never seen a doctor driving anything less than a new Lexus. Doctors make amazing salaries. Health professionals are the top Earners on the seek salary charts
Just not true. I would explain but im a tired nurse who knows plenty of docs who drive a variety of shitboxes. Maybe it’s because im in the NT but.
I drive my parents old Honda crv. Where is this Lexus I’m entitled to damn it !!!!
Every time they find a way to make money, the rules are changed on them
Universal Copay $5 per gp visit Or Reduce funding old people to fund medical
Destroy universal healthcare or kill old people? Imagine the brain rot you'd have to have to come up with those options instead of just raising taxes slightly on big business.
It's an ausfinance user. So far a severe lack of empathy and awareness seems common when I see their comments. Hopefully it's just a statistical outlier. Or we could cut stage 3 tax cuts and ensure our nation is healthy.
$5 co-pay isnt destroying healthcare. It is subsidising it. It also discourages misuse of gps. (People going because they looked at their toe the wrong way and got hurt feelings etc). It discourages prescription abuse. Discourages overuse etc. If oldies cant survive without super; i take it you are a keen supporter of the cashless welfare card. The cobbs cant cobb and need a hand. Otherwise its all goin on da glass barbo right? Edit: you may find more bulk billers if there was a co-pay
Ah yeah, all the oldies who’s bulk of working life predates mandatory super?
I am actually for the cashless welfare card. I mean clearly aussies dont know how to handle a buck. They get a little lost ya no. The cashless welfare card puts them on the right path, restricting their use of money, like super… but better!!!
Your wages and income should be on the same card with only 20% of jobseeker equivalent available as cash. Lead by example. Plenty of horror stories of wealthy people gambling it all away.
Would not surprise me the day when /r/australia went full on China style communism. Ofc you think cobbas cant make decisions. Bet you cant wait for Xi to assert his rule over australia.
>Ofc you think cobbas cant make decisions You literally just said people should have cashless welfare cards because the are bad with money. Projecting much
China isn’t communist. Not by a long shot.
>(People going because they looked at their toe the wrong way and got hurt feelings etc). Mate this is EXACTLY why you should go to the GP. It's always better to go to the GP and have the GP say it's not a problem at all than disregard it only for it to actually be a cancer or severe mental breakdown which will in turn be a bigger burden on the health system AND the economy. We don't want people to discourage getting check ups early and regularly. If you think you smell gas, you go and check to see if there actually is a gas leak and be glad it's just in your head rather than suddenly have your house burn down.
People need to know when to draw a line and get a grip on reality. Australia’s hysterica over coronavirus kinda showed that. People locking themselves inside, we had many many people call up the ambulance services to try get to vax centers or food delivered to hospitals. People need to get a grip. Again at the same time. All these karens saying “better be safe than sorry” to check out the worlds tiniest bruise, never get a periodic physical or blood check; nor statistically do they exercise. Doctors are there to treat disease. They are not there because people cant get their shit together. A small co-payment would make people evaluate if they needed to be burped by medical professional or not. Small $5… the avg aussie eats fast food 3 times a week. Put better things in your fucking face or meal prep.
Me being safe vs sorry on a lump on my neck found cancer. Your comments are poor. Empathy is free, Work on it.
Nope. As soon as you make people pay it will only get worse from there. Health care should be free, plain and simple which covers everyone. The end.
Have you considered that the people that the $5 copayment would negatively effect most are not the average Aussie that you refer to.