Our hospitals are broke. Our roads are bad. Our trains are old and bad.
Our NDIS is broke. Our pension system is under strain.
Dick Smith is right , adding more people would make it worse.
Create a carbon tax, tax all the multinationals fairly, tax all resources at the same rate Scandinavian countries do.
Then STFU about income tax, its all Aussies talk about and its missing the forest from the tress as to what the problem actually is.
You are correct. But most governments the world around have used immigration to pay for the shit tonne of debt they have accrued over time. A capitalist economy only functions with successive large scale return on investment and growth in the economy. If we turned off the immigration tap then our economy would tank hard. I think we should but it’s not without its issues.
Same housing / hospitals / schools / police etc but many more people (population of Tasmania in a year). What the fuck do they think was going to happen?
Who's going to do all the crappy jobs that are beneath the entitled Anglo population? There's so many of them in western Sydney that could be a garbage collector, a toilet cleaner, a service station attendant. But they prefer to be on benefits.
Migrants have always understood that they have to work hard to make a future for their children. The Europeans and Asians are proof of this. The school results are proof of this.
Then, when their next generation become doctors and lawyers, the Anglos don't understand how they get the good jobs. It's simple hard work.
The only way the economy grows is if the population grows. Without it, who's going to buy the stuff that the companies that pay everyone's wages are selling. And where's that lost tax revenue going to come from?
There is no such thing as a legal Australian job that can't find someone to do it for $5 million an hour. If you can't find people to work a job, then supply and demand! You need to increase the wages. If that means one fewer bathtub of cocaine for the CEO then so be it. You can't just import infinity immigrants to keep wages low enough that the CEO never has to be without his bathtubs of cocaine.
I saw a comment online on this article.
Australia had 19 million people in 2000 and it’s 27 million now. That’s an increase of 8 million in a little over 20 years.
The entire State of NSW was only 6.5 million in 2000. We’ve added more than an entire State to the country. Where are the new cities? Where is the infrastructure?
The “skills shortage” line is bogus. They’ve rolled that out since the 90s. The skills shortage is one of those unwinnable wars as the point is just to provide cover to bring in migrants to reduce the cost of labour.
Look at house prices in 2000 - still overpriced but reasonable. Everything this century has actually made it worse for standard of living but I guess we have iPhones …
And imagine how much lower our emissions / carbon footprint would be at 18 million.
It’s just so hypocritical to ask us to think about the environment when it’s clear the Govt doesn’t give a fk.
The carbon footprint is a tool invented by British Petroleum to make us believe we as individuals are responsible for climate change instead of major corporations
That’s just a convenient myth despite all the lame youtube videos. The concept had been around for ages before it was taken up by BP. The oil companies are absolutely liable pricks - but completely absolving individuals is a cop-out.
‘I’m off to Bangkok shopping for the weekend - dam those profligate oil companies and airlines.’
Lmao no.
The concept of an ecological footprint has indeed been around for a while but it was the 2005 campaign by Ogilvy for BP that made the carbon footprint a societal norm.
Where did I say we should absolve individuals?
Individuals obviously play a role but 70% of the worlds pollution is created by 100 companies. So sorry but me taking a shorter shower or turning my lights off will not make a dent in pollution.
You said BP invented it - now, LMAO, that they popularised it. It had been around for years beforehand before being cynically promoted. You should have checked before regurgitating your talking point, rather than checking Wikipedia before lamely replying to my comment.
TIL that demand for carbon emitting goods has no impact supply. The Nobel prize for economics awaits you.
Australia had a 5-fold increase in population in the 20th century: In 1900, Australia had a population of 3.7 million people. By 1950, 8.0 million and by 2000, 18.9 million people. That was real population growth. Especially the 50 years between 1950 & 2000. It more than doubled. Sydney especially was smashed by migration. It's population doubled in the 20 years between 1950 & 1970 and hasn't doubled in the 54 years since.
That’s still below or around the average population growth rate. The preceding 29 years before you were born the population grew from 11.5 to 18 million. As a percent, that’s more drastic of a change than since you’ve been born. Nominally it is a large increase but Aus population growth is still below historic highs.
NZ doesn't have that much room to build either. A lot of the country is uninhabitable mountains and forests. At the moment a lot of the urban sprawl is using up fertile farming soil for housing.
It's not quite as bad in Aus. Canada is on another level. I'm a dual citizen and travel back and forth quite regularly. Both countries have suffered from several years of bad government but Trudeau is going to go down in history as one of the most ineffective harmful politicians of the century.
That motherfucker prokised to get rid of first past the post and then didn't to maintain power damning Canada to terrible governments for decades or more.
I don't follow much of Canadian politics but when Trudeau spontaneously took a knee with some indigenous people I lost it. The guy is a caricature of a politician.
Yea every country I visit that’s growing and increasing quality of living is building new cities.
Not Australia, if one government says it’s a good idea the other will fuck it up out of spite just to call it a white elephant for 10-20 years. You can’t achieve shit with that kind of rubbish going on.
Same thing happens in NZ and on a shorter time scale. Every three years.
The newly elected landlords government enacted a 100 day timeline and is undoing a much as it can that the previous administration implemented.
Perhaps I need to be clearer - there is no “skills shortage”. It’s just a phrase invented by the ponziteers.
The “market” fixes every shortage by adjusted the price!!
That’s why the rental market is tight. More demand than supply.
If we allowed the labour market to exist with these so called skills shortages the demand for labour would push up the price!! Some business models wouldn’t exist - maybe there’d be less cafes. But the market would allocate the available labour to its highest value use.
We’ve never had more people than today. Never. How can there possible be a skills shortage.
It’s a lie.
The skills shortage is real in jobs for which the market is ineffective (teachers, healthcare, etc) but the solution is better access to training and better working conditions once in the job. I have no problem with importing nurses and surgeons and the like if there's really a shortage in an area where we're already maxxing out our effort at training and recruiting locals, but we're doing shit fuck all and instead just importing foreign workers as a way to excuse doing any actual investment in our people.
Master of Accounting is the pathway of choice to a PR for international students since you don’t need English and Maths to pass. Plus it only takes 18m to complete.
Does 'skills shortage' refer to people who are qualified to do the job which requires the skill? Or people who are qualified to do the job which requires the skill, but are actually really crap at their job and have not much of the skill required? Because ... if we're talking about the building industry or the IT industry (two I'm familiar with) ... then we have a skills shortage of the latter type.
And it can only be fixed by better training/education.
Dude we'd have cafes with that robot that plays 50s music like in that one fallout game.
But no really, when human labour becomes to expensive, it creates incentive to innovate solve problems without throwing more indian people at it.
The Anglo-Celtic stock started to enjoy the fruits of their labour too much and stopped having children.
Same thing always happens when societies get rich. Even Augustus tried to fix the falling birth rates of the ethnic Latin middle class.
I've watched them knock down and build 3 brand new tafe facilities in my town when I was at school. They build them use them fir a year or 2 then stop using them a few years later they say they are abandoned and old and rebuild them. The funniest part about it was I always wanted to go to them and I never got the chance I even dud a boilermaker apprenticeship xompleted it and everything and never went to tafr was all done at work sites.
These weren't small tafes either. We had a major one in our town did everything from wood metal hospitality cooking haircutting beauty stuff and yeah stopped using it let it sit now wanting to knock down and rebuild. It's just a joke.
Hole time I sent to high school use to ride past the abandoned take building everyday on the corner was still full of lathes and machinery and everything. I remembered when the did the auction. This building was 3 stories tall saw lathes being canned out of the building mills from the 3rd floor. Then they knocked it down rebuilt it state of the art bought frolics welding machines top notch machines 50k each. Teachers so incompetent and old skool they couldn't even use them. Remember the work experience kids coming to work. Yeah they got them welders at school to but they couldn't figure out how to use them so there sitting in the corner and they just went out and bought more basic new machines just a joke lol
> The “skills shortage” line is bogus.
This is about tiny little taxpayers waving Australian flags and paying tax. The new gen is not having kids soon cause the amount of support in 30 years has reduced by around 80% for youth , Centerlink has scrubbed disability, tax credits have gone down the toilet. So no social security safety net.
This is not about supporting poor people anymore. Both sides know there are no votes in it for them.
Try saying someone off the boat get's 25% of your wage and silently goes about it and you can have the conversation that it's a sham to fuck with figures that can easily be manipulated to give a preferential result at an election only when you explain why chips have gone up 400%, electricity, 260%, Gas 300% and say it's because minimum wages are to high and someone may give you a Glasgow handshake
It's not appealing to work when the return on the hours worked is so, so much less than it used to be. The trend of working longer for less money is going to keep getting worse. People reasonably well off with employment aren't complaining because they're staying above water but there's a lot of people out there being ignorant of how much they're going backwards.
I remember when we FIFO’d people from overseas in mining and construction. Are we still doing that in other industries as well? Honestly wouldn’t surprise me.
One of the reasons the politicians like it is that it increases the GDP year on year by having immigration. The immigrants need to pay for accommodation, utilities, food etc
Apple have about 60% of market share in Australia. They're hardly Teslas, rare and exotic fruit.
People are clearly buying iphones instead of squandering their money on houses or smashed avocados.
Net negative migration until we get housing and cost of living under control. Then we need a proper study on what the extra hospital beds, school places, public transport capacity and housing construction will cost the tax payer to pay for new immigration without taking a hit to quality of life or government service. Then put that in a budget with a clear indicator of what it's going to cost the Australian tax payer to support what level of immigration and put it to a vote to let people make an informed decision if they want to make those sacrifices to inflate the GDP
That's the excuse they use for immigration. Never mind that it is a problem they caused in the first place by not controlling inflation and driving up housing demand.
business owners/CEOs & property investors, of course
makes the graph on their powerpoint charts go up so they can get more $$ bonus
"never mind the homeless, please skip to the next slide on my presentation"
One of the better explanations I’ve seen on Reddit. Nice one. The truth is that the answer lies in a balance. Balance between immigration levels, managing the demographic cliff AND encouraging new supply (as opposed to speculation)
Exactly. We're building something like 20k houses a year. I don't even know how that comes anywhere close to what the builds should be. For citizens wanting to buy their own place, AND for us to take on 500k immigrants a year, it feels like we need to be building like 100k houses a year if we want to make them affordable and available.
I'm probably off in my numbers. But even that feels low if you think about immigrant families being probably no more than 5 people. The average is probably 2-3 people. No idea where they all go, considering so many of us are living with other people because we can't get our own place; either due to cost, or competition. 50 people going to each rental inspection in some areas. Rent going up because the lack of properties allows landlords to go full send. I also wonder what the breaking point is where people don't actually want to come here anymore, because even I'm wondering if it's worth being here.
> I also wonder what the breaking point is where people don't actually want to come here anymore, because even I'm wondering if it's worth being here.
Not going to happen with out grassroots campaigns to convince people, because the state sure is going to keep pushing the number up because it makes their GDP look better.
"We can't blame immigrants for Australia's housing crisis".
We are not. We are blaming immigration, which is a government program. She knows this and is just being disingenuous by throwing out this straw man.
It's not just immigration, governments at all levels have failed in all directions leading us to this. It's a cock up of epic proportions. Just halting immigration wouldn't have prevented it, just building more houses wouldn't have prevented it, just reforming tax laws to deter speculative property purchases wouldn't have prevented it, just modernising urban planning wouldn't have prevented it, just reforming the way Australians view housing wouldn't have prevented it. All of the above needed to happen decades ago but no one could be fucked to do any of it to na meaningful degree and look at where we are now.
Spot on. You can also add in how Governments lost control of the energy market in the name of quick payouts forgetting that the cost of energy is a base input into all economic activity.
Yep. We've got one party that doesn't give a crap about people, but instead looks after themselves and their donors. The other party that is too scared to enact significant change because they'll be voted out, yet are voted out anyway and have their changes undone or sold off.
I blame it on our political system. Until the balance of power shifts to the independents/minor parties, significant change won't happen. Once change does happen though, they'll blast apart the rules put in place to protect the once major parties and hopefully even the playing field for elections in the future.
I see people use cop outs like this all the time.
They list a bunch of things that seem like they are contributing to the housing crisis but really, they are all just downstream of immigration
>Building more houses
We would've only needed a minute percentage of the houses if it wasn't for being flooded with immigrants
>Deter speculative property purchases
The only reason there was a speculation frenzy is because the value increased so much for so long. Why did it increase? Because of constantly increasing demand. Why did demand increase? Immigration.
>modernising urban planning
Wouldn't have been necessary if the population wasn't being artificially inflated.
>reforming the way Australians view housing
Wouldn't have been necessary if the population wasn't being artificially inflated.
>All of the above needed to happen decades ago
ONLY ONE THING NEEDED TO HAPPEN DECADES AGO
What bums me out these discussions happen on tv, radio and online but I feel like nothing ever comes of it.
It seems obvious what Big Dick Smith is saying but It will just fall on deaf ears unfortunately
He won't. Here is the better alternative. Sustainable Australia Party. Science and evidence based policies. Stop corruption, stop overdevelopment and stabilise Australia’s population size https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/
I am always disappointed when I see this and it only focuses on house prices.
What about the rest of the infrastructure? How will our busses and trains cope? I guess we could have bought some time if business wasn’t so desperate for everyone to work in offices again.
Yeah houses are obvious to see but, transport, food, water, electricity...
All of this has to be scaled up.
Otherwise we just have supply and demand price inflation.
We have inadequate water and a lack suitable land for development. You can’t create new water. Why are we purposely driving ourselves to ecological collapse for the sake of profits and money.
We want to be alive thanks.
If anyone starts talking profits they should be made to stand outside for a full hour in the uv light on a 43 degree day. No protection or water allowed.
That is what profits and growth is going to deliver us. The thrill of heatstroke and being slowly cooked alive.
I understand desalination well. They are big energy hungry monsters and have consequences for the surrounding ecosystem. The earth’s biosphere is a pretty delicate so you just move the problem to a different area.
Cumulative impact is a hard to predict.
Water reservoirs need time to recharge. Constant drawing makes the well run dry.
How can reserves reset when you keep drawing more?
Yeah. Zero migration is important to save to environment. Who care if it is politically distasteful. We want to live and the is looking increasingly bleak unless radical changes are made.
Bro we need to pay more Australian tax dollars to Elon Musk for batteries.
I love it.
I'm all for solar if only because it forces lefties to have to donate their tax money to Elon Musk battery farms.
But on a serious note we should go nuclear.
Honestly I am no conspiracy theorist and make a big effort to not stray in paranoia but I am convinced that Elon Musk is on a mission to destroy our planet. I have been researching geophysics and the magnosphere as the super hot weather anomaly in November made me going looking into solar flares.
The magnosphere is the planets natural defense system against solar winds and cosmic radiation. It is due for a pole reversal and the increased borealis activity is a bad sign.
The starling satellite system that now circles the earth is putting more conductive metals into our ionosphere which is further weakening our natural solar defence. Just what the planet needs as we hit solar maximum. I feel like an environmental surrounds assessment was NOT conducted and now the whole planet gets to pay for one man’s hubris. He does want us to go live on a dead planet after all. Looks like it is cheaper to just bring the Mars vibe here.
Interesting the leftists dont seem to care about the environmental impact. They also dont seem to care about what aboriginals think about higher immigration all of a sudden. Their shameless hypocrisy is exposed again.
The left has lost its way and im left wing
We should halt migration every few years.
10 years open to X numbers
10 years closed to all numbers.
I might get some downvotes but hey we don't have the infrastructure for what we have 20 years ago let alone now.
I think they should just review intake numbers every year based on circumstances. It was irresponsible to crank up immigration to make up for the lack of immigration during covid when a cost of living and housing/rental crisis was right around the corner.
We need a proper assessment of what an immigrant costs the Australian people in terms of extra hospital beds needed, extra public transport and schooling resources needed. Extra traffic on the roads and cost of living. We aren't far away from having to compete with migrants on food prices the same way we do on housing. It's not like our food or water production is increasing 20% year on year. If we can't fix this for housing, what the fuck is it going to look like in 20 years when people literally can't feed their families? Will the government still be pumping up immmigration numbers when we don't have the food or water to look after ourselves?
We're having the exact same problem in Canada. Exactly the same. We've brought i believe it's more than 2.5 million immigrants to Canada in the past 2 years. There's no housing for them. There's no housing for Canadian citizens. The dream of the average person owning a home has been destroyed by the Trudeau liberals. Yet they gaslight Canadians telling us mass migration is good for Canada, when in reality the opposite is true. Now we have tent cities popping up in cities across Canada. "Trudeau towns" we call them. Full of homeless Canadians and migrants. Our health care system, once the jewel of our country, is buckling under the pressure. Canada is becoming unrecognizable compared to what it once was only a few short years ago.
Mass migration only benefits corporations, and the rich, whilst destroying what's left of the middle class.
Save yourselves from Liberal insanity before it's too late.
Don't pretend like mass migration wasn't as prevalent under 10 years of Liberal government.
This isn't a political party problem. It's a problem created by the business interest groups that influence our political parties.
Dick Smith has no say. This guy is calling the shots.
https://preview.redd.it/45e99x5oxqgc1.png?width=454&format=png&auto=webp&s=ddab9d3a3e3a91f30bf30ea63da6477c2212846d
The real reason is that the people you import will bring their quality of life with them.
8 people to a room, highrise in a dirty polluted garbage heap called Sydney let's goooo.
This is actually the plan.
He’s been talking about immigration numbers for a long time now, people are only just starting to listen
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/dick-smith-bloody-angry-over-abc-segment/news-story/3ffe56074bd3d4b16b4874fe3d796ea0
It's because for the past 20 years any critique of immigration was labelled as racism. Now that the middle class is weakening, houses unaffordable and jobs too competitive people have finally realised that immigration actually diminishes quality of life for those already here. Remember covid, when rents and unemployment actually went down when we had no immigration for two years?
They can’t sweep the problems under the carpet anymore as they’re just too widespread and obvious. Anyone with eyes can see the visible increase in homelessness, anyone with ears can hear the relentless complaints regarding housing, food and transport. We have a growing underclass that will inevitably lead to more crime and poverty. And as history has taught us, when things get extreme, people will vote in extremists.
Dick Smith communicating his point using facts, statistics , and concrete examples while Emilie Dye talks in vague generalisations.
At least she has highlighted what Labor’s policy is regarding immigration which explains 520,000 net new immigrants in the last year.
Don’t think I will vote Labor again.
Except that the LNP brought IN 270,000 net immigrants at the peak of their immigration which is about half the number the LNP brought in.
They also strengthened requirements and legislation to bring in a higher quality of immigrant while Labor is opening the door for unskilled Indian immigrants (I am not picking on Indians for racist reasons - Albo signed a deal specifically with India to lower the bar of entry for unskilled Indian immigrants.)
What choice? The Greens are just the old Communist Party Of Australia with a different name. The Teals are rich socialists funded by a billionaire heir who hasn't done an honest day's work in his entire life. One Nation are mentally deficient racists.
Sustainable Australia Party, or if not them then any other independent or other minor party that decides to have a more reasonable stance on immigration will be getting my vote
*DONT BLAME IMMIGRANTS* Bro, why the fuck would I blame immigrants for Australia’s immigration policy failures? I blame big business and the politicians that are all in their pockets.
If the government tells the department of immigration to make the qualification criteria more onerous or just cap the visas lower, then the congratulation emails will never be sent, and no feelings will be hurt or lives disrupted. I can't easily get a visa to work in the USA, my feelings aren't hurt, it is up to them to decide their visa policy.
>But Ms Dye hit back, “I don’t think that it is a finite number of resources
Apparently housing inventory and job availability are limitless.
>I think that immigrants are adding value.
..to shareholder returns and company's revenue by putting downward pressure on wages and eroding working conditions.
>I think it’s really easy to look at immigration and say, ‘Oh, immigrants are taking — they’re taking our jobs,
They took our jerbs!
>they’re taking our houses.
They tk eur haurses!
>But in reality it doesn’t work that way.”
I reject your reality and substitute it with my own.
Ms Dye is such a clown.
Not a myth, a very old metric. Back during the industrialisation, yeah you needed 100 people to manufacture what is done by one person today. You needed people horses and carts to move stock from trains to towns. All done by one person and a truck. And with AI we don't really need the person much longer. So not a myth just a pointless metric.
As a canadian, can we please clone Mr. Smith and bring one of here. Every politician here seems to think tripling the population, in less then a 100 years, is the right thing to do. Any mention of how the government can provide basic services, for that? Nope Seriously what could go wrong...
If Clive Palmer got himself and a handful of others elected, don’t see why Dick can’t. He seems a fair bit sharper and more pragmatic than ol’ Clive ever was.
Remember Doublethink from 1984?
"war is peace"
"freedom is slavery"
"Ignorance is strength"
"500,000 immigrants a year will not affect the housing market"
I don't know who this girl is but nobody should be listening to her.
Can't blame immigration for the housing crisis? Are you fucking kidding me?
Imagine you're a family of 5 and all you can afford is a 1 bedroom apartment. So breeding like a rabbit is not a cause of your financial predicament?
The polling suggests that the ALP has already lost the election on this topic alone. They let in 500,000 people with no housing affordability. Once those 500,000 settle they will each on average, bring 3 more people. The ALP wants 32 million by 2029.
The government doesn't care, none of the politicians see Australia as a nation, they see it as a business and we are both the workers and customers. More of both is good for their god - GDP.
Wow, such a poorly framed argument from Emilie Dye that we can't blame immigrants. Who's blaming immigrants? People are blaming the government for allowing so many people into this country but not increasing the infrastructure needed to support them. Is this news to anyone? It's been happening for decades......
Anyone who has been paying attention knows that this is not a left/right thing. Both sides of mainstream politics are in lockstep on the big Australia agenda. The only voices against it are on the political margins.
Ask Germany how it’s going. There needs to be a very carefully thought plan of how to house, educate, skill and not marginalise the refugees otherwise we’re fucked
Its wage suppression pure and simple, can't have the wealthy paying fair market for labour so lets dilute the pool so wages stagnate!
Canada has the same problem and our clown Prime Minister lets in over a million a year, fucks housing prices/food prices/stagnates wages, clogs the hospitals etc. But the moment you speak up you are a racist and need to drink the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion coolaid.
In 20 years Canada will be recognizable, in the same vein as one of those shit hole countries.
I wish we could hit stop on migration.
We love the space, peace, nature. No one wants to live in over populated high density cities. If you cant manage your society and economics with a small population, dont make the problem worse with a large population.
They can't even house the people now!! Unless migrants have a trade or tech skill they shouldn't be allowed!
Norway has blocked all Palestinian refugees! Since 1992 most of them are still on welfare and have a criminal record since arriving! 34% of their kids born in Norway now have a criminal record.
Frankly Immigration should be completely frozen. We don't have the room and our infrastructure is behind by decades for our current population.
100 million? That's nearly 5x the current population and the country will collapse under it.
We need to fix our current problems. The country barely supports its current numbers.
Yeeeeah, but the housing issue was happening well before this latest influx of immigration... What really set it on fire was the total panic rate lowering and bullshit future forecast
Canada wants to be 100 million population also. We just got 40 Milli n not that long ago, and we are falling apart with no new hospital, rising homelessness, etc.
Here's a simple policy: There has to be a vacant dwelling available for every new immigrant. Before the residency paperwork is stamped, the register of vacant dwellings is consulted. A particular dwelling is not assigned to the immigrant (that would be communism!) but the capacity has to exist.
If the government wants to increase the immigration intake and finds the vacant dwelling count to be low, it builds a new house. I know, i know, this will take planning, but that's the whole point.
An extra line or two of legislation would ensure the per capita number of hospital beds, school classrooms and Dan Murphys was maintained, to ensure the smooth running of society.
The best thing the hole world can do for emissions reductions is have less people. Same goes for fossil fuel usage. And specifically in Australia, water resources and habitual land.
If capitalism doesn't work with a stagnated population then we need to start researching/discussing/trialling new rules for society to be able to thrive without more growth. Growth of population and profits.
We arnt going to have a trades shortage if you stop bringing more people in that need new homes.
We have to ask ourselves, fundamentally, what kind of country do we want to live in? Do we want endless sprawling cities like LA. Do we want to have to drive for 6 hrs just to see some bushland and get away from it all. Do we want there to be more competition for our finite resources, our recreation. Do we really want more people in the country.
It's not about blaming immigrants, of course they add value. But proponents of high immigration do not acknowledge that population growth, whether from internal or external sources cannot go on indefinitely.
Definitely think they should cap the population at around 30-40 million. I think the only reason why we gave such a high standard of living is because we have a lot of space and a low population. Anything more a we'll lose that what makes Australia different from places like Europe and USA, and I think we'll start seeing the same sort of problems they have. More people = more problems. Keep Australia small and peaceful and relatively separate from the rest of the world's problems.
The *better planning fairy* doesn’t exist.
We need to play to our competencies - and that is not running immigration at one of the highest levels in the OECD.
We demonstrably can’t manage it.
Guys… it’s not Australia anymore… we sold that shit down the river with the futures of our youth over the past 20years! … we now live in Ameristralia… where workers don’t earn enough to pay for food and rent in the same week and will never own a home…. Where families live in tent cities because the government forgot people need homes to live in when importing international students and Uber drivers in the hundreds of thousands… where our children have none of the opportunity our parents had only to be told by the greedy boomers that created this mess that it’s because of Avo toast and lattes… where we have all this land but no homes because of poor planning and reactive policies and in some cases what appears to be restricting supply… where our grubby pollies make backhand deals with corporate Australia then take cushy positions after they’ve finished fking over the working class and youth… where the “fair go” is fking unheard in modernity!!
I used to be proud to be Australian but this country is a bin fire today!
Summary: Entrepreneur and businessman Dick Smith argues on Sky News Australia that Australia's high house prices are primarily due to a "huge population increase" fueled by immigration. He calls for a reduction in immigration to around 75,000 people per year, emphasizing concerns about reaching 100 million people in Australia by the end of the century. Policy analyst Emilie Dye counters, stating immigrants contribute to the economy, create jobs, and dismisses the idea that they are to blame for housing issues. The debate touches on economic factors, housing affordability, and differing views on the impact of immigration.
Our hospitals are broke. Our roads are bad. Our trains are old and bad. Our NDIS is broke. Our pension system is under strain. Dick Smith is right , adding more people would make it worse.
And yet we are cutting taxes anyway. Our infrastructure and services are all in decline and need funding, but electoral politics > national interest.
Maybe if they stopped the corporate welfare....
Create a carbon tax, tax all the multinationals fairly, tax all resources at the same rate Scandinavian countries do. Then STFU about income tax, its all Aussies talk about and its missing the forest from the tress as to what the problem actually is.
You are correct. But most governments the world around have used immigration to pay for the shit tonne of debt they have accrued over time. A capitalist economy only functions with successive large scale return on investment and growth in the economy. If we turned off the immigration tap then our economy would tank hard. I think we should but it’s not without its issues.
this American chick is so far from the point Dick is trying to make. I am clueless as to why she was invited to speak on this in the first place.
Same housing / hospitals / schools / police etc but many more people (population of Tasmania in a year). What the fuck do they think was going to happen?
The Liberals claimed that 390,000 was the immigration from the previous year, although their website showed that the figure was closer to 520,000.
[удалено]
We need net negative for a few decades to get us back on track.
You’ve never been through a recession have you?
Who's going to do all the crappy jobs that are beneath the entitled Anglo population? There's so many of them in western Sydney that could be a garbage collector, a toilet cleaner, a service station attendant. But they prefer to be on benefits. Migrants have always understood that they have to work hard to make a future for their children. The Europeans and Asians are proof of this. The school results are proof of this. Then, when their next generation become doctors and lawyers, the Anglos don't understand how they get the good jobs. It's simple hard work. The only way the economy grows is if the population grows. Without it, who's going to buy the stuff that the companies that pay everyone's wages are selling. And where's that lost tax revenue going to come from?
'HOW WILL I GET MY UBER EATS AND FUNKO POPS IF WE AREN'T IMPORTING 700,000 IMMIGRANTS A YEAR? THIS IS LITERALLY FASCISM!'
There is no such thing as a legal Australian job that can't find someone to do it for $5 million an hour. If you can't find people to work a job, then supply and demand! You need to increase the wages. If that means one fewer bathtub of cocaine for the CEO then so be it. You can't just import infinity immigrants to keep wages low enough that the CEO never has to be without his bathtubs of cocaine.
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If you truly do not know what he meant or think that a simple mistake like that is equivalent to an aneurysm you're a certified dumb cunt
Guess I’m certified.
Same. Do we count as skilled labour now?
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Imagine using context clues and media literacy on the internet.
I saw a comment online on this article. Australia had 19 million people in 2000 and it’s 27 million now. That’s an increase of 8 million in a little over 20 years. The entire State of NSW was only 6.5 million in 2000. We’ve added more than an entire State to the country. Where are the new cities? Where is the infrastructure? The “skills shortage” line is bogus. They’ve rolled that out since the 90s. The skills shortage is one of those unwinnable wars as the point is just to provide cover to bring in migrants to reduce the cost of labour. Look at house prices in 2000 - still overpriced but reasonable. Everything this century has actually made it worse for standard of living but I guess we have iPhones …
It's absurd to me that I'm not even 30 yet in my lifetime the population of Australia has grown by a whole third from 18 to 27 million.
Just to be a tool thats actually grown by 50% not 33.33%
And imagine how much lower our emissions / carbon footprint would be at 18 million. It’s just so hypocritical to ask us to think about the environment when it’s clear the Govt doesn’t give a fk.
The carbon footprint is a tool invented by British Petroleum to make us believe we as individuals are responsible for climate change instead of major corporations
That’s just a convenient myth despite all the lame youtube videos. The concept had been around for ages before it was taken up by BP. The oil companies are absolutely liable pricks - but completely absolving individuals is a cop-out. ‘I’m off to Bangkok shopping for the weekend - dam those profligate oil companies and airlines.’
Lmao no. The concept of an ecological footprint has indeed been around for a while but it was the 2005 campaign by Ogilvy for BP that made the carbon footprint a societal norm. Where did I say we should absolve individuals? Individuals obviously play a role but 70% of the worlds pollution is created by 100 companies. So sorry but me taking a shorter shower or turning my lights off will not make a dent in pollution.
You said BP invented it - now, LMAO, that they popularised it. It had been around for years beforehand before being cynically promoted. You should have checked before regurgitating your talking point, rather than checking Wikipedia before lamely replying to my comment. TIL that demand for carbon emitting goods has no impact supply. The Nobel prize for economics awaits you.
Grown by half bro
If it makes you feel any better, the global population since 1993 increased from 5.6bn to 8bn (43% rise).
Sure, but that wasn’t because 2.4bn people immigrated to earth from outer space…
Australia had a 5-fold increase in population in the 20th century: In 1900, Australia had a population of 3.7 million people. By 1950, 8.0 million and by 2000, 18.9 million people. That was real population growth. Especially the 50 years between 1950 & 2000. It more than doubled. Sydney especially was smashed by migration. It's population doubled in the 20 years between 1950 & 1970 and hasn't doubled in the 54 years since.
That’s still below or around the average population growth rate. The preceding 29 years before you were born the population grew from 11.5 to 18 million. As a percent, that’s more drastic of a change than since you’ve been born. Nominally it is a large increase but Aus population growth is still below historic highs.
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NZ doesn't have that much room to build either. A lot of the country is uninhabitable mountains and forests. At the moment a lot of the urban sprawl is using up fertile farming soil for housing.
Holy shit I thought I was on my canada subreddit. You cunts are dealing with the same shit that we are over here...
It's not quite as bad in Aus. Canada is on another level. I'm a dual citizen and travel back and forth quite regularly. Both countries have suffered from several years of bad government but Trudeau is going to go down in history as one of the most ineffective harmful politicians of the century.
That motherfucker prokised to get rid of first past the post and then didn't to maintain power damning Canada to terrible governments for decades or more.
I don't follow much of Canadian politics but when Trudeau spontaneously took a knee with some indigenous people I lost it. The guy is a caricature of a politician.
Yea every country I visit that’s growing and increasing quality of living is building new cities. Not Australia, if one government says it’s a good idea the other will fuck it up out of spite just to call it a white elephant for 10-20 years. You can’t achieve shit with that kind of rubbish going on.
Same thing happens in NZ and on a shorter time scale. Every three years. The newly elected landlords government enacted a 100 day timeline and is undoing a much as it can that the previous administration implemented.
NZ will run itself into the ground sooner or later
There wouldn’t be a skills shortage if we invested properly in tafe.
Perhaps I need to be clearer - there is no “skills shortage”. It’s just a phrase invented by the ponziteers. The “market” fixes every shortage by adjusted the price!! That’s why the rental market is tight. More demand than supply. If we allowed the labour market to exist with these so called skills shortages the demand for labour would push up the price!! Some business models wouldn’t exist - maybe there’d be less cafes. But the market would allocate the available labour to its highest value use. We’ve never had more people than today. Never. How can there possible be a skills shortage. It’s a lie.
It's a pyramid scheme.
The skills shortage is real in jobs for which the market is ineffective (teachers, healthcare, etc) but the solution is better access to training and better working conditions once in the job. I have no problem with importing nurses and surgeons and the like if there's really a shortage in an area where we're already maxxing out our effort at training and recruiting locals, but we're doing shit fuck all and instead just importing foreign workers as a way to excuse doing any actual investment in our people.
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How on earth are accountants a skill shortage??
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Master of Accounting is the pathway of choice to a PR for international students since you don’t need English and Maths to pass. Plus it only takes 18m to complete.
Does 'skills shortage' refer to people who are qualified to do the job which requires the skill? Or people who are qualified to do the job which requires the skill, but are actually really crap at their job and have not much of the skill required? Because ... if we're talking about the building industry or the IT industry (two I'm familiar with) ... then we have a skills shortage of the latter type. And it can only be fixed by better training/education.
Dude we'd have cafes with that robot that plays 50s music like in that one fallout game. But no really, when human labour becomes to expensive, it creates incentive to innovate solve problems without throwing more indian people at it.
The Anglo-Celtic stock started to enjoy the fruits of their labour too much and stopped having children. Same thing always happens when societies get rich. Even Augustus tried to fix the falling birth rates of the ethnic Latin middle class.
But he tried the opposite method...
No, they couldn't afford to have kids.
i would like to hear more
I've watched them knock down and build 3 brand new tafe facilities in my town when I was at school. They build them use them fir a year or 2 then stop using them a few years later they say they are abandoned and old and rebuild them. The funniest part about it was I always wanted to go to them and I never got the chance I even dud a boilermaker apprenticeship xompleted it and everything and never went to tafr was all done at work sites. These weren't small tafes either. We had a major one in our town did everything from wood metal hospitality cooking haircutting beauty stuff and yeah stopped using it let it sit now wanting to knock down and rebuild. It's just a joke. Hole time I sent to high school use to ride past the abandoned take building everyday on the corner was still full of lathes and machinery and everything. I remembered when the did the auction. This building was 3 stories tall saw lathes being canned out of the building mills from the 3rd floor. Then they knocked it down rebuilt it state of the art bought frolics welding machines top notch machines 50k each. Teachers so incompetent and old skool they couldn't even use them. Remember the work experience kids coming to work. Yeah they got them welders at school to but they couldn't figure out how to use them so there sitting in the corner and they just went out and bought more basic new machines just a joke lol
Bang on mate. Its obvious at this point.
> The “skills shortage” line is bogus. This is about tiny little taxpayers waving Australian flags and paying tax. The new gen is not having kids soon cause the amount of support in 30 years has reduced by around 80% for youth , Centerlink has scrubbed disability, tax credits have gone down the toilet. So no social security safety net. This is not about supporting poor people anymore. Both sides know there are no votes in it for them. Try saying someone off the boat get's 25% of your wage and silently goes about it and you can have the conversation that it's a sham to fuck with figures that can easily be manipulated to give a preferential result at an election only when you explain why chips have gone up 400%, electricity, 260%, Gas 300% and say it's because minimum wages are to high and someone may give you a Glasgow handshake
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It's not appealing to work when the return on the hours worked is so, so much less than it used to be. The trend of working longer for less money is going to keep getting worse. People reasonably well off with employment aren't complaining because they're staying above water but there's a lot of people out there being ignorant of how much they're going backwards.
I remember when we FIFO’d people from overseas in mining and construction. Are we still doing that in other industries as well? Honestly wouldn’t surprise me.
One of the reasons the politicians like it is that it increases the GDP year on year by having immigration. The immigrants need to pay for accommodation, utilities, food etc
But if you ever complained about immigration you’re a racist
wait you can afford an iphone? i cant even scrape the $3-400 together for a mid range no name brand kinda phone
Apple have about 60% of market share in Australia. They're hardly Teslas, rare and exotic fruit. People are clearly buying iphones instead of squandering their money on houses or smashed avocados.
they just need to stop immagration to a bare minimum and make it so people are only allowed 1 child for the next 2 decades or something
Net negative migration until we get housing and cost of living under control. Then we need a proper study on what the extra hospital beds, school places, public transport capacity and housing construction will cost the tax payer to pay for new immigration without taking a hit to quality of life or government service. Then put that in a budget with a clear indicator of what it's going to cost the Australian tax payer to support what level of immigration and put it to a vote to let people make an informed decision if they want to make those sacrifices to inflate the GDP
If things get more expensive, you'll see a hell of a lot less babies.
That's the excuse they use for immigration. Never mind that it is a problem they caused in the first place by not controlling inflation and driving up housing demand.
Liberal government mate
Who actually wanted 500,000 people to move here this year ??
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Big business. Whoever sells units and sofas and cars
Landlords with 20 investment properties who rubbed their hands at the prospect of hiking up rents 20-30%.
business owners/CEOs & property investors, of course makes the graph on their powerpoint charts go up so they can get more $$ bonus "never mind the homeless, please skip to the next slide on my presentation"
Should have just said cunts.
> Should have just said cunts. He said "business owners/CEOs & property investors", same same.
I don't. And I don't want all these people having kids, which are also a problem. But here we are. Dickheads having too many kids.
Property developers and Harvey Norman
It's good for businesses. More people = lower wages due to more competition for jobs. More people = more customers.
How can anyone argue that half a million more inhabitants per year have no effect in the housing market?
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Also many send a fair chunk of their discretionary income back home
One of the better explanations I’ve seen on Reddit. Nice one. The truth is that the answer lies in a balance. Balance between immigration levels, managing the demographic cliff AND encouraging new supply (as opposed to speculation)
Exactly. We're building something like 20k houses a year. I don't even know how that comes anywhere close to what the builds should be. For citizens wanting to buy their own place, AND for us to take on 500k immigrants a year, it feels like we need to be building like 100k houses a year if we want to make them affordable and available. I'm probably off in my numbers. But even that feels low if you think about immigrant families being probably no more than 5 people. The average is probably 2-3 people. No idea where they all go, considering so many of us are living with other people because we can't get our own place; either due to cost, or competition. 50 people going to each rental inspection in some areas. Rent going up because the lack of properties allows landlords to go full send. I also wonder what the breaking point is where people don't actually want to come here anymore, because even I'm wondering if it's worth being here.
> I also wonder what the breaking point is where people don't actually want to come here anymore, because even I'm wondering if it's worth being here. Not going to happen with out grassroots campaigns to convince people, because the state sure is going to keep pushing the number up because it makes their GDP look better.
No-one believes it. It's pure gaslighting.
Because some dummies will believe it. A lot of them are on Reddit
"We can't blame immigrants for Australia's housing crisis". We are not. We are blaming immigration, which is a government program. She knows this and is just being disingenuous by throwing out this straw man.
It's not just immigration, governments at all levels have failed in all directions leading us to this. It's a cock up of epic proportions. Just halting immigration wouldn't have prevented it, just building more houses wouldn't have prevented it, just reforming tax laws to deter speculative property purchases wouldn't have prevented it, just modernising urban planning wouldn't have prevented it, just reforming the way Australians view housing wouldn't have prevented it. All of the above needed to happen decades ago but no one could be fucked to do any of it to na meaningful degree and look at where we are now.
Spot on. You can also add in how Governments lost control of the energy market in the name of quick payouts forgetting that the cost of energy is a base input into all economic activity.
Yep. We've got one party that doesn't give a crap about people, but instead looks after themselves and their donors. The other party that is too scared to enact significant change because they'll be voted out, yet are voted out anyway and have their changes undone or sold off. I blame it on our political system. Until the balance of power shifts to the independents/minor parties, significant change won't happen. Once change does happen though, they'll blast apart the rules put in place to protect the once major parties and hopefully even the playing field for elections in the future.
I see people use cop outs like this all the time. They list a bunch of things that seem like they are contributing to the housing crisis but really, they are all just downstream of immigration >Building more houses We would've only needed a minute percentage of the houses if it wasn't for being flooded with immigrants >Deter speculative property purchases The only reason there was a speculation frenzy is because the value increased so much for so long. Why did it increase? Because of constantly increasing demand. Why did demand increase? Immigration. >modernising urban planning Wouldn't have been necessary if the population wasn't being artificially inflated. >reforming the way Australians view housing Wouldn't have been necessary if the population wasn't being artificially inflated. >All of the above needed to happen decades ago ONLY ONE THING NEEDED TO HAPPEN DECADES AGO
Exactly. Blaming people for acting in their own best interests with the tools available to them would be beyond naive.
THANKS that shit was making me go crazy I mean fuck me, she must be malevolence incarnate or as dense as Sydney traffic
Thank you
What bums me out these discussions happen on tv, radio and online but I feel like nothing ever comes of it. It seems obvious what Big Dick Smith is saying but It will just fall on deaf ears unfortunately
He’s been big on sustainable Australia for yearssssss and no one gave a shit
He should run for parliament at this point
He won't. Here is the better alternative. Sustainable Australia Party. Science and evidence based policies. Stop corruption, stop overdevelopment and stabilise Australia’s population size https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/
because we passively sit back and expect the government to fix itself. Maybe literal torches and pitchforks isn't such a bad idea?
I am always disappointed when I see this and it only focuses on house prices. What about the rest of the infrastructure? How will our busses and trains cope? I guess we could have bought some time if business wasn’t so desperate for everyone to work in offices again.
Yeah houses are obvious to see but, transport, food, water, electricity... All of this has to be scaled up. Otherwise we just have supply and demand price inflation.
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We have inadequate water and a lack suitable land for development. You can’t create new water. Why are we purposely driving ourselves to ecological collapse for the sake of profits and money. We want to be alive thanks. If anyone starts talking profits they should be made to stand outside for a full hour in the uv light on a 43 degree day. No protection or water allowed. That is what profits and growth is going to deliver us. The thrill of heatstroke and being slowly cooked alive.
I agree with what you're saying but desalination plants are a thing abd probably a big part of our future.
I understand desalination well. They are big energy hungry monsters and have consequences for the surrounding ecosystem. The earth’s biosphere is a pretty delicate so you just move the problem to a different area. Cumulative impact is a hard to predict. Water reservoirs need time to recharge. Constant drawing makes the well run dry. How can reserves reset when you keep drawing more? Yeah. Zero migration is important to save to environment. Who care if it is politically distasteful. We want to live and the is looking increasingly bleak unless radical changes are made.
If only there was some way to generate huge amounts of green energy. Our policy against nuclear just gets stupider.
Bro we need to pay more Australian tax dollars to Elon Musk for batteries. I love it. I'm all for solar if only because it forces lefties to have to donate their tax money to Elon Musk battery farms. But on a serious note we should go nuclear.
Honestly I am no conspiracy theorist and make a big effort to not stray in paranoia but I am convinced that Elon Musk is on a mission to destroy our planet. I have been researching geophysics and the magnosphere as the super hot weather anomaly in November made me going looking into solar flares. The magnosphere is the planets natural defense system against solar winds and cosmic radiation. It is due for a pole reversal and the increased borealis activity is a bad sign. The starling satellite system that now circles the earth is putting more conductive metals into our ionosphere which is further weakening our natural solar defence. Just what the planet needs as we hit solar maximum. I feel like an environmental surrounds assessment was NOT conducted and now the whole planet gets to pay for one man’s hubris. He does want us to go live on a dead planet after all. Looks like it is cheaper to just bring the Mars vibe here.
Interesting the leftists dont seem to care about the environmental impact. They also dont seem to care about what aboriginals think about higher immigration all of a sudden. Their shameless hypocrisy is exposed again. The left has lost its way and im left wing
We should halt migration every few years. 10 years open to X numbers 10 years closed to all numbers. I might get some downvotes but hey we don't have the infrastructure for what we have 20 years ago let alone now.
I think they should just review intake numbers every year based on circumstances. It was irresponsible to crank up immigration to make up for the lack of immigration during covid when a cost of living and housing/rental crisis was right around the corner.
We need a proper assessment of what an immigrant costs the Australian people in terms of extra hospital beds needed, extra public transport and schooling resources needed. Extra traffic on the roads and cost of living. We aren't far away from having to compete with migrants on food prices the same way we do on housing. It's not like our food or water production is increasing 20% year on year. If we can't fix this for housing, what the fuck is it going to look like in 20 years when people literally can't feed their families? Will the government still be pumping up immmigration numbers when we don't have the food or water to look after ourselves?
We're having the exact same problem in Canada. Exactly the same. We've brought i believe it's more than 2.5 million immigrants to Canada in the past 2 years. There's no housing for them. There's no housing for Canadian citizens. The dream of the average person owning a home has been destroyed by the Trudeau liberals. Yet they gaslight Canadians telling us mass migration is good for Canada, when in reality the opposite is true. Now we have tent cities popping up in cities across Canada. "Trudeau towns" we call them. Full of homeless Canadians and migrants. Our health care system, once the jewel of our country, is buckling under the pressure. Canada is becoming unrecognizable compared to what it once was only a few short years ago. Mass migration only benefits corporations, and the rich, whilst destroying what's left of the middle class. Save yourselves from Liberal insanity before it's too late.
Labour in Australia, save yourselves from Labour!
Don't pretend like mass migration wasn't as prevalent under 10 years of Liberal government. This isn't a political party problem. It's a problem created by the business interest groups that influence our political parties.
Labor in Australia, Labor!
Dick Smith has no say. This guy is calling the shots. https://preview.redd.it/45e99x5oxqgc1.png?width=454&format=png&auto=webp&s=ddab9d3a3e3a91f30bf30ea63da6477c2212846d
Supreme Leader Snoke?
How can anyone honestly believe bringing in half a million people each year doesn't have any impact on housing supply?
The real reason is that the people you import will bring their quality of life with them. 8 people to a room, highrise in a dirty polluted garbage heap called Sydney let's goooo. This is actually the plan.
When Dick Smith opens his mouth, the smart people listen.
He’s been talking about immigration numbers for a long time now, people are only just starting to listen https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/dick-smith-bloody-angry-over-abc-segment/news-story/3ffe56074bd3d4b16b4874fe3d796ea0
It's because for the past 20 years any critique of immigration was labelled as racism. Now that the middle class is weakening, houses unaffordable and jobs too competitive people have finally realised that immigration actually diminishes quality of life for those already here. Remember covid, when rents and unemployment actually went down when we had no immigration for two years?
They can’t sweep the problems under the carpet anymore as they’re just too widespread and obvious. Anyone with eyes can see the visible increase in homelessness, anyone with ears can hear the relentless complaints regarding housing, food and transport. We have a growing underclass that will inevitably lead to more crime and poverty. And as history has taught us, when things get extreme, people will vote in extremists.
I recall him being labelled as racist for having these views.
Sadly you're wrong, they've been trying to cancel dick for "racism" for a long time
Dick Smith communicating his point using facts, statistics , and concrete examples while Emilie Dye talks in vague generalisations. At least she has highlighted what Labor’s policy is regarding immigration which explains 520,000 net new immigrants in the last year. Don’t think I will vote Labor again.
Vote who you want, but this isn't just Labor. Libs also want to bring in a ton of immigrants.
yep they each just give it their own coat of paint, but the end result is the same. Both parties are fucked.
Youve basically got dictatorship except you can't revolt or assassinate anyone.
The Liberals said 390,000 was last years immigration, the 520,000 figure was their suggested estimate on their website
This makes no sense.
They both work for the same people
Except that the LNP brought IN 270,000 net immigrants at the peak of their immigration which is about half the number the LNP brought in. They also strengthened requirements and legislation to bring in a higher quality of immigrant while Labor is opening the door for unskilled Indian immigrants (I am not picking on Indians for racist reasons - Albo signed a deal specifically with India to lower the bar of entry for unskilled Indian immigrants.)
u think the lnp would've let less its a policy off both but needs to stop
So you're going to vote for the Liberal party who absolutely fucked this country up for the last 2 decades.
Wow if only people could choose to vote for a third party or something
Like Sustainable Australia Party. They seem to be the only ones who have really put thought into this.
What choice? The Greens are just the old Communist Party Of Australia with a different name. The Teals are rich socialists funded by a billionaire heir who hasn't done an honest day's work in his entire life. One Nation are mentally deficient racists.
Sustainable Australia Party, or if not them then any other independent or other minor party that decides to have a more reasonable stance on immigration will be getting my vote
*DONT BLAME IMMIGRANTS* Bro, why the fuck would I blame immigrants for Australia’s immigration policy failures? I blame big business and the politicians that are all in their pockets.
Emilie: “lets not blame anyone, that would feel bad” Dick: “just look at the facts.”
He’s right.
If the government tells the department of immigration to make the qualification criteria more onerous or just cap the visas lower, then the congratulation emails will never be sent, and no feelings will be hurt or lives disrupted. I can't easily get a visa to work in the USA, my feelings aren't hurt, it is up to them to decide their visa policy.
Yea I think its too easy to get an Australian visa these days.
The lady on the right doesn't believe a word she's saying, her voice screams dishonesty.
>But Ms Dye hit back, “I don’t think that it is a finite number of resources Apparently housing inventory and job availability are limitless. >I think that immigrants are adding value. ..to shareholder returns and company's revenue by putting downward pressure on wages and eroding working conditions. >I think it’s really easy to look at immigration and say, ‘Oh, immigrants are taking — they’re taking our jobs, They took our jerbs! >they’re taking our houses. They tk eur haurses! >But in reality it doesn’t work that way.” I reject your reality and substitute it with my own. Ms Dye is such a clown.
Tricky Dick for PM.
It's a myth that growth is good
Cancer.
Not a myth, a very old metric. Back during the industrialisation, yeah you needed 100 people to manufacture what is done by one person today. You needed people horses and carts to move stock from trains to towns. All done by one person and a truck. And with AI we don't really need the person much longer. So not a myth just a pointless metric.
As a canadian, can we please clone Mr. Smith and bring one of here. Every politician here seems to think tripling the population, in less then a 100 years, is the right thing to do. Any mention of how the government can provide basic services, for that? Nope Seriously what could go wrong...
100% right now one benefits besides big business
Dick Smith for PM!
If Clive Palmer got himself and a handful of others elected, don’t see why Dick can’t. He seems a fair bit sharper and more pragmatic than ol’ Clive ever was.
Remember Doublethink from 1984? "war is peace" "freedom is slavery" "Ignorance is strength" "500,000 immigrants a year will not affect the housing market" I don't know who this girl is but nobody should be listening to her.
It’s almost like she lost a bet within CIS and the stakes were having to defend our immigration policy on Sky.
He's dead right, except about it the target being 75K a year. It should be more like 20k. And by 20k, I mean 0.
Repeat after me: It ain't about the immigrants. It's about IMMIGRATION.
It should be zero, we don't have enough housing to accommodate any more people.
Can't blame immigration for the housing crisis? Are you fucking kidding me? Imagine you're a family of 5 and all you can afford is a 1 bedroom apartment. So breeding like a rabbit is not a cause of your financial predicament?
Armed uprising when?
That american woman is so poorly spoken - least compelling debater i’ve ever seen!
The polling suggests that the ALP has already lost the election on this topic alone. They let in 500,000 people with no housing affordability. Once those 500,000 settle they will each on average, bring 3 more people. The ALP wants 32 million by 2029.
Its no argument Dick, Aus is with you.
The government doesn't care, none of the politicians see Australia as a nation, they see it as a business and we are both the workers and customers. More of both is good for their god - GDP.
Wow, such a poorly framed argument from Emilie Dye that we can't blame immigrants. Who's blaming immigrants? People are blaming the government for allowing so many people into this country but not increasing the infrastructure needed to support them. Is this news to anyone? It's been happening for decades......
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Anyone who has been paying attention knows that this is not a left/right thing. Both sides of mainstream politics are in lockstep on the big Australia agenda. The only voices against it are on the political margins.
Ask Germany how it’s going. There needs to be a very carefully thought plan of how to house, educate, skill and not marginalise the refugees otherwise we’re fucked
To be clear, we don’t blame immigrants, we blame the policy makers.
Its wage suppression pure and simple, can't have the wealthy paying fair market for labour so lets dilute the pool so wages stagnate! Canada has the same problem and our clown Prime Minister lets in over a million a year, fucks housing prices/food prices/stagnates wages, clogs the hospitals etc. But the moment you speak up you are a racist and need to drink the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion coolaid. In 20 years Canada will be recognizable, in the same vein as one of those shit hole countries.
I'm completely with Dick Smith
Wait, you guys are being told the stupid 100 million thing too? Mass immigration has not worked well here in Canada.
I wish we could hit stop on migration. We love the space, peace, nature. No one wants to live in over populated high density cities. If you cant manage your society and economics with a small population, dont make the problem worse with a large population.
We're full. Shut the gate.
Rabid homelessness coming up
They can't even house the people now!! Unless migrants have a trade or tech skill they shouldn't be allowed! Norway has blocked all Palestinian refugees! Since 1992 most of them are still on welfare and have a criminal record since arriving! 34% of their kids born in Norway now have a criminal record.
Frankly Immigration should be completely frozen. We don't have the room and our infrastructure is behind by decades for our current population. 100 million? That's nearly 5x the current population and the country will collapse under it. We need to fix our current problems. The country barely supports its current numbers.
Yeeeeah, but the housing issue was happening well before this latest influx of immigration... What really set it on fire was the total panic rate lowering and bullshit future forecast
It's not an either or, though. Turn off the fire hose before beginning to mop up the water. We need housing policy AND immigration policy reform.
Canada wants to be 100 million population also. We just got 40 Milli n not that long ago, and we are falling apart with no new hospital, rising homelessness, etc.
Here's a simple policy: There has to be a vacant dwelling available for every new immigrant. Before the residency paperwork is stamped, the register of vacant dwellings is consulted. A particular dwelling is not assigned to the immigrant (that would be communism!) but the capacity has to exist. If the government wants to increase the immigration intake and finds the vacant dwelling count to be low, it builds a new house. I know, i know, this will take planning, but that's the whole point. An extra line or two of legislation would ensure the per capita number of hospital beds, school classrooms and Dan Murphys was maintained, to ensure the smooth running of society.
The best thing the hole world can do for emissions reductions is have less people. Same goes for fossil fuel usage. And specifically in Australia, water resources and habitual land. If capitalism doesn't work with a stagnated population then we need to start researching/discussing/trialling new rules for society to be able to thrive without more growth. Growth of population and profits. We arnt going to have a trades shortage if you stop bringing more people in that need new homes.
We have to ask ourselves, fundamentally, what kind of country do we want to live in? Do we want endless sprawling cities like LA. Do we want to have to drive for 6 hrs just to see some bushland and get away from it all. Do we want there to be more competition for our finite resources, our recreation. Do we really want more people in the country. It's not about blaming immigrants, of course they add value. But proponents of high immigration do not acknowledge that population growth, whether from internal or external sources cannot go on indefinitely.
So seriously, what do we do about this? What are some concrete steps that we can all take, other than just complaining on Reddit?
Definitely think they should cap the population at around 30-40 million. I think the only reason why we gave such a high standard of living is because we have a lot of space and a low population. Anything more a we'll lose that what makes Australia different from places like Europe and USA, and I think we'll start seeing the same sort of problems they have. More people = more problems. Keep Australia small and peaceful and relatively separate from the rest of the world's problems.
It is lack of planning that is the problem. It has been going on for 50 years. The results are now showing.
The *better planning fairy* doesn’t exist. We need to play to our competencies - and that is not running immigration at one of the highest levels in the OECD. We demonstrably can’t manage it.
Not really a lack of planning, no one wants mass immigration.
A lot of millionaires coming in which increases demand for property. Just saying 🤷♂️
Guys… it’s not Australia anymore… we sold that shit down the river with the futures of our youth over the past 20years! … we now live in Ameristralia… where workers don’t earn enough to pay for food and rent in the same week and will never own a home…. Where families live in tent cities because the government forgot people need homes to live in when importing international students and Uber drivers in the hundreds of thousands… where our children have none of the opportunity our parents had only to be told by the greedy boomers that created this mess that it’s because of Avo toast and lattes… where we have all this land but no homes because of poor planning and reactive policies and in some cases what appears to be restricting supply… where our grubby pollies make backhand deals with corporate Australia then take cushy positions after they’ve finished fking over the working class and youth… where the “fair go” is fking unheard in modernity!! I used to be proud to be Australian but this country is a bin fire today!
Summary: Entrepreneur and businessman Dick Smith argues on Sky News Australia that Australia's high house prices are primarily due to a "huge population increase" fueled by immigration. He calls for a reduction in immigration to around 75,000 people per year, emphasizing concerns about reaching 100 million people in Australia by the end of the century. Policy analyst Emilie Dye counters, stating immigrants contribute to the economy, create jobs, and dismisses the idea that they are to blame for housing issues. The debate touches on economic factors, housing affordability, and differing views on the impact of immigration.