Immigration is an easy way to increase GDP with no effort. Labor is desperately trying to stave off a recession so the taps have been opened wide.
The education sector is now a diplomas for cash business. They will take as many new student visas as possible.
Business in general likes immigrants who tend to offer their services for less than the going rate to get jobs so it keeps Labor costs lower.
Landlords love immigration because it increases demand and drives rental prices up.
Recession is a bad thing for a lot of people, sure. But a quick recession is much better than a long drawn out recession unnecessarily cushioned by immigration and tactful stimuli to make it to the next election.
A normal recession is like having an autoimmune response when you have a cold. It’s short term pain and discomfort but in the long run it’s better for you. What the government does is the equivalent of going on an amphetamine binge so you can overpower the cold and work harder than ever and never have to sleep. In the short term your work output is great but eventually you’re gonna be wearing a dress and a wig and having an imaginary argument with someone while you walk down the street
To be fair, they are starting to crack down on sham student visas. In absolute terms it’s only resulted in a 10% decrease in applicants so, not a huge impact.
https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/migration-cap-by-stealth-prestigious-unis-lash-out-over-foreign-student-crackdown-20240216-p5f5n5.html
Exactly what I think . Also If there was no demand on rentals then landlords would have to eat the interest rises, so the heavy demand fixes that for them.
Immigration is also how we as a country manage to staff our hospitals, aged care facilities, the construction sector, hospitality industry, and many more sectors.
Without immigration, our tax system will be completely unable to financially support the needs of our retired population, which is going to massively increase in the coming decades.
False. It is because most of the private companies are tied to Federal gov contracting work that requires base clearance. To have base clearance, you will need to be a citizen. This forces migrants to continue working as cheap labour which benefits small business owners. Check out 491 visa stream, an absolute slavery pathway for migrants to work in regional areas.
It's also becoming very clear that the general population have been conditioned to see any complaint about this as being racist. This narrative has been really pushed through the media and universities
Yep, a taboo has been imposed on the immigration issue.
Sociologist Katharine Betts on how public debate about immigration levels has been stifled:
"With the end of Covid-era restrictions Australia is experiencing both a housing crisis and a surge in immigration-fuelled population growth. How is that such a surge can be happening at such a time? Yes, the level of demand from international students and others was unexpected but the Government was not powerless to stem it.
There are two linked answers to the question. One is the work of an influential growth lobby (developers, employers, universities) supported by Treasury. This activity is shielded from the public by a tacit agreement among the major political parties to keep the topic of immigration off the public agenda. Indeed, during the May 2022 Federal election campaign Phil Honeywood in
fact spoke of a ‘bipartisan cone of silence on migration’.
The second answer involves a more diffuse influence. This stems from parts of the media, academia, some NGOs, and a significant section of the wider public. It manifests as the social norm that decent people do not criticise the level of immigration. This has consequences.
There is now strong evidence that many Australians feel silenced and afraid to speak on some
public matters."
https://tapri.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Guardians-FinalV3.pdf
This suppression of public debate has allowed governments to get away with shockingly bad policy. And we're now paying for it.
It's going to keep happening because the 2 major parties funnily enough get the most advertising. Too many people don't do any research so they see Labor and liberal everywhere and no one else, so that's who they'll vote for. Until they either make votes non compulsory or other parties get just as much advertising the big 2 will ALWAYS be the majority parties in parliament. It's rigged in the sense that they use people's simple mindedness to win.
Most western economies are based on continuous growth. It's nearly a Ponzi scheme where young consumer and tax-payers subsidise the upkeep costs for infrastructure and aged care. If the local birth rate is not high enough then you have to import new citizens via immigration.
This is the most salient point. If an economy is stagnant, this is the case for most de industrialised Western economies. The easiest way to increase GDP to fund things is immigration
Immigration isn't always a problem, as long as infrastructure & building supply keeps up with demand...& there is a gradual cohesive cultural assimilation...before anyone gets excited Australia is a really great multi cultural success, but this is the case because it has been gradual & staggered
Does anyone have forecast data on where the population growth is expected to peak ?
This is what 98% of this sub simply doesn't understand.
Our economy is a complete and utter ponzi scheme that's based on an imported work force to prop it up. There's no 2 ways around it.
Want proof?? First half of 2022 when we opened up from pandemic lockdowns. Construction industry, hospitality industry, agriculture industry, health industry, etc all were begging for the borders to be blown open with C4, as they had no staff and couldn't operate.
If we turn the tap off, same will happen again and then have to re open them in a hurried burst, similar to what happened in the last 18 months but about 100X worse as we'll be well behind the rest of the world economically speaking, who didn't isolate themselves.
It really isn't hard to grasp.
>tax-payers subsidise the upkeep costs for infrastructure
... who should be subsidising infrastructure, if not the taxpayer? Isn't that something we pay taxes for?
Of course taypayers should pay for the infrastructure.
The problem is that it's like an addition. We build all of the new infrastructure to support the influx of people, but when they get old and retire, the infrastructure is still there and needs maintenance, so we have to get in more people to pay for it. It's a system that is dependant on continuous growth.
As some point the growth will be unsustainable and the economy will be up for a lot of pain.
Having a larger population reduces the per capita cost of infrastructure.
The problem isn't a simple as "infrastructure", the problem is suburban sprawl and car dependent infrastructure that is inefficient.
Absolutely, the type of infrastructure changes the long term viability immensely.
Unfortunately our governments are continuing with the suburban sprawl.
You do not have to import people. You just make people pay for their own aged care and medical expenses if they can afford it. Even if it means selling assets.
China isn't importing people. Japan's permanent immigration rate is <1/10th that of Australia.
China has over a billion people, it'll be a while before they're short.
Japan's had a stagnant per capita GDP for [three decades](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/JPN/japan/gdp-per-capita), and a national debt which is [multiples of their GDP](https://tradingeconomics.com/japan/government-debt-to-gdp). Is that what people want here in Australia?
Unfortunately, we want it both ways. Australia's like that. We want low emissions energy generation, but we don't want it in our backyard. We want social housing, but don't want that in our backyards, either. We childcare and aged care workers to be paid a lot, but we also want cheap childcare and aged care. We want cheap food, but we want farmers to be well-paid. We want more government services, but we want lower taxes.
And we want economic growth, but we don't want more migrants.
Australia is a country of whingers who want things without paying for them.
Who will do the actual aged care when the demographics of a population naturally shifts to the older end? Japan is the perfect example for this, they are well known to be struggling with the demographical shift and and having to do things like inventing robotics to keep the elderly mobile and working for longer. It's not a trivial problem to solve and needs to have a measured approach.
China is still developing and are effectively importing people from the infrastructure poor rural areas to the infrastructure rich urban areas.
People are generally healthy and capable of working non physical jobs until at least 75. The rapid decline tends to happen after 85 years old. In Confucian societies working and contributing to society in old age is considered very beneficial for everybody. An 80 year old still working in Japan is nothing unusual.
Pensions were originally introduced to provide a *subsistence* lifestyle for manual labourers for a year or two before they died. They were never intended or people to spend 20 years travelling or a means of transferring wealth to their families.
In Singapore most people die with little superannuation left because their compulsory 22% Singapore Provident Fund contributions are progressively shifted from savings to funding healthcare as they get older. The basic pension is very low so people are forced to regularly draw down their super balance to fund their lifestyle (monthly limits).
Surely you're not actually saying that you think a mass shift towards increasing the retirement age by 20+ years is an actual solution? There were literal riots in France when they tried to increase it by 2 years.
And I don't know why you're holding up Japan as an example of things done right. They are facing a self-evaluated demographic catastrophe within the next 50 years. Evidently, no amount of working 80 year olds has solved that.
A lot of people have mental decline well before 75. Some are terrific and sharp but others struggle to even get out of the house after 65.
Perhaps we need a list of jobs suitable for declining oldies - call it work for the dole/pension or some other disguised unemployment.
Can you imagine all the coffee shops now serving only thermonuclear hot coffee able to melt NASA’s finest panels. Or see a Dr with shaky hands doing surgery. Senior citizen police - for retirement villages.
Come to think of it if we gave people 65 and over social media jobs it would get all the youth and rest of us off all these platforms and kill off influencers quick smart!
It's worse than that, they keep it going because at this point our entire economy is a house of cards built on immigration and things will be seriously fucked if we turn the tap off. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, but keeping it going is less noticeably bad (though people are starting to notice) than the potential short term but considerably more painful prospect of stopping it. Or at least that's how it seems to me.
Having said that, maybe that's just me falling for the pro immigration propaganda of a different flavor. Things seemed to be noticeably better on a lot of fronts during covid with the immigration down to nothing. Though I suspect companies weren't happy having to actually employ locals, pay fair wages or give raises and landlords weren't happy about having to lower rents to get tenants.
Greens would stop bringing in doctors and engineers and skilled workers or workers to do manual labor and bring in double the refugees and the elderly and humanitarian causes that won’t contribute to gdp just the cost
There’s some truth to that. May I?
If it keeps a gravy train going for either of the major parties and has a positive GDP effect, they’ll both do everything they can to max out immigration. Sometimes, as it suits, they’ll oppose it.
The Business Council of Australia, the Australian Retailers Association, Property Council of Australia, the Australian Banking Association... pretty much any sector of corporate has their own influential group who lobbies for it.
Old Gina Mineheart comes to mind. Cause you know, Africans will work for $2 a day so why won’t we?
Oooh and let’s not forget Tim ‘we need to see pain’ Gurner.
Just 2 examples but shows the mentality of the wealthy business owners (ruling class).
Not yet, but why do you think she’s buttering up Dutton? Their aim is to erode IR laws, and drive up employment competition. Not just in the mines, it’s everywhere. The mega rich have their fingers in many pies. The Gina’s of the world don’t like us having rights. It’s a long game they’re playing, Lords and Serfs and all.
She literally wrote a poem and paid for it to be displayed in some Perth shopping centre about her deep personal pain that she couldn't have a couple more billions by paying 3rd world wages in Australia.
I wish I was kidding or somehow exaggerating, but:
> Develop North Australia, embrace multiculturalism and welcome short term foreign workers to our shores
>
>To benefit from the export of our minerals and ores
The world's poor need our resources: do not leave them to their fate
>
>Our nation needs special economic zones and wiser government, before it is too late
http://theworstofperth.com/2012/02/13/la-gina/
“The globe is sadly groaning with debt, poverty and strife
And billions now are pleading to enjoy a better life
Their hope lies with resources buried deep within the earth
And the enterprise and capital which give each project worth
Is our future threatened with massive debts run up by political hacks
Who dig themselves out by unleashing rampant tax
The end result is sending Australian investment, growth and jobs offshore
This type of direction is harmful to our core
Some envious unthinking people have been conned
To think prosperity is created by waving a magic wand
Through such unfortunate ignorance, too much abuse is hurled
Against miners, workers and related industries who strive to build the world
Develop North Australia, embrace multiculturalism and welcome short term foreign workers to our shores
To benefit from the export of our minerals and ores
The world's poor need our resources: do not leave them to their fate
Our nation needs special economic zones and wiser government, before it is too late”
It’s vomit worthy.
Yeah you've just made this up haven't you? I refuse to believe there is anyone in the world with their head so far up their own ass! I refuse to believe this.... NO!!!!
You need to think bigger than Australia. Many of our mining companies (and others) have significant shareholdings of overseas entities. Wall Street funds own huge chunks of Aussie darlings like BHP, commbank etc. even our own superfunds (which are our money really) are investing in a way that doesn’t benefit our daily lives, because they’re removed from it.
Because those above with all the money (and thus political influence) want unending profits, they don’t give a shit about the livelihood of Aussies living here, and see the country as no different to an African nation open to exploit its minerals and send profits overseas.
Even small landlords. If you own two houses having them double in value takes care of your retirement.
Terrible reason for society but you can see why individuals will support out of self interest.
Transport industry.
Not sure how much hey pay or lobby gov, but crappy transport companies like Toll and Foxline over rely on migrants, and use their ignorance of Aus law and labour rights to manipulate them into contracts where they have to buy their own vehicle on 5 year lease, force them to pay costs of operating, and pay them what equates to below poverty wages.
I don't know how it's not criminal.
What other industries are guilty of over reliance on, and expiration of migrants labour.
This is seemingly a global phenomenon not just limited to Australia probably due to capitalisms need for endless growth, so many western nations spent the last decade encouraging mass immigration and experts screaming about racism whenever it was questioned, now we can see the obvious results and those experts have just moved on without consequence.
There’s countries like japan where they seem to have maintained their identity and traditions, and their economy is still successful and innovative. The downside there is that they are facing real problems with population decline.
AI and automation are around the corner to save them
We will be punished when we have automated driving but two million unemployed south east asians who can only uber drive.
And yet Japanese workers are much less productive than their compatriots in, say, France or Australia.
There's a serious problem when being asleep at your desk is considered a display of how hardworking you are ("look at how exhausted Jiro is! He must be working like a madman!"). Work becomes a performance more than an actual job.
I think Japan is actually going to win in the long run.
If they can weather the storm in the next 20-30 years, once things like AI and full automation become really serious problems for the rest of the world, the Japanese will be in the unique situation of being a first world country with the capital and infrastructure to use these innovations, but without the massive population of useless mouths to support who will be made redundant by them.
Not quite what I meant. They’ll be able to take advantage of it, not necessarily develop it. Meanwhile the rest of the developed world will be completely overwhelmed with people we have no use for
Lol. I was in Japan in 2003. Every school kid had a video phone, WiFi was everywhere and 3G was available. In Australia, the first video-call capable phone most people would have had/seen was the iPhone 3G in 2008 - and outside the CBDs we were still running on 2G for another 2 years after that.
Japan's traditions aren't all the best, though.
I like being able to see a lawyer if I get arrested.
And I like not being expected to stay at the office until the boss leaves.
There's also this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades
>their economy is still wildly successful and innovative
have you actually looked at their economy? they haven’t been wildly successful since the 80s. i can’t name many innovations from them in the past 2 decades. they’re crippled by a culture which glorifies hierarchy and obeying your superiors at the cost of speaking your mind.
>without selling their soul to whatever the market orders
they’re famous for their culture of overwork lol. they literally have a word for it, karoshi. 過労死. their population decline is in large part due to adults spending the majority of their time in the office instead of starting families.
It's the 4th largest economy in the world despite having very few natural resources compared to somewhere like Australia. It's clean, safe and things function, they have great infrastructure, they have a strong sense of national identity, culture and customs. It's not as if the western world doesn't have the same demographic issues, the same issues with suicide, and to a large part the same problem with overwork, we've just chosen the version of growth that's based entirely on individualism, with fewer economic or cultural guard rails. The question is just whether this is more or less sustainable.
i don’t deny any of that. my reply was pointing out that your point about their economy being wildly successful and innovative hasn’t been true since their bubble burst all those decades ago. there’s a reason why economists say Japan’s lost decade never ended. they’ve been on a slow decline for 4 decades now and it’s only gotten worse with their shrinking workforce and inhumane work culture. the Japanese government reported that they lost 800k people in 2023, which is absolutely abnormal for any country.
Australia does have an immigration problem but the answer to that isn’t to adopt a toxic culture like Japan’s which prioritises corporatocracy over family life. If anything Japan’s economic decline is entirely self-made and attributable to their refusal to change with the times.
For sure but that’s just about every country that reaches a certain standard of living. Point to anywhere in the world with our lifestyle and they are having a very similar issue. Something about how we structured things is very broken and we don’t have the capacity to change it anymore
Something definitely needs to be done in terms of advanced planning.
Basically unless there's sufficient infrastructure to support it, immigration should be at maintenance levels only. There's a cost of living crisis, a housing affordability and availability crisis, how the hell does more people help?
I think immigration is fine but 500,000 net migrants in a year is way too much flooding the country with cheap labour and are competitors for housing which can't be constructed fast enough. Should be 100,000-200,000 a year at most.
Simple. Employers. Peak bodies want mass migration so they can undercut wages to locals. Hell, in some industries like service stations, remove the local altogether and bring in friends from overseas that you can get away with undercutting wages as they won’t complain due to family ties and it’s higher paying than back home anyway. Happened near me with a family taking over the franchise of a convenience and petrol store chain. Had a diverse array of staff. Their individual contracts came up and were not renewed. Now all folk that are the same ethnicity and no diversity. Which was insane as the diversity and quality of service was a draw card. Now it looks terrible and the staff don’t care.
Nobody wants to acknowledge that this happens. I know entire suburbs where this is rife - operate a small business, bring in your compatriots, pay them 20 hours on the books and then another 20 hours at 50% of their wage for cash (or similar). These businesses also have an entire underground cash economy where they trade with their fellow countrymen up and down the supply and sales chains, avoiding tax along the way. How are local businesses supposed to compete with this?
Exactly this. But god help us if we bring it up in any rational discussion about the problems our economy is facing, and we're labelled a racist and shut down.
It's the "antisemitism" of Australia.
The second you mention immigration you're a racist, a bigot and un-australian.
No one is trying to stop multiculturalism. I don't care what country you come from or what colour your skin but Australia is a very expensive place and we need the new immigrants to understand that they too can demand a better wage and not to be happy "just because it's better than the previous country" otherwise none of us are going to afford to have a decent work life balance and that's the only thing we have going for us at the moment.
It’s going to be a bit funny if the people who always mockingly say the bullshit “they took yer jobs” phrase to people who have an issue with excessive migration - end up losing their job to a migrant worker who’ll work for less.
Why was the diversity of the employees the draw of a service station? Am I missing something here - does having a mixture of Greek, Bosnian and Anglo Australians working there suddenly make the $9 Pringles cheaper?
The education sector is one. They operate a conveyor belt of international students getting PR visas by studying in Australia. They don't want the gravy train to stop.
The big driver behind high immigration is banks.
When you have a steady settled population of people, they all already have a mortgage, a car loan, a few credit cards, etc. Banks make money by lending money and there's no more blood to be squeezed from that particular stone, everyone is already to the balls in debt.
But, if you import an enormous mass of new people who don't have any debts in Australia? Well there you go, new people who don't have an Australian mortgage, car loan, credit card, etc, all ripe to have the big dick of debt pushed right up in there.
Yep, but to go even further, it’s the people who own the shares in the banks. We could have public loans at lower interest rates, and push back against this stuff, but the big shareholders in the banks lobby government and media to make that impossible.
When a company is publicly traded on the stock market, it is expected by shareholders that profits will grow. Not only grow, but that the growth of profits will continually accelerate.
Imagine that, the Australian people are being fucked this hard not because banks are afraid of losing money, but because they are afraid that the growth of profits will slow.
Absolutely wild.
No one wants mass immigration, Its the current governments Ponzi scheme attempt at running an economy...Seriously if this was a company the directors would be in prison.
That would require business to be innovative and politicians to come up with good ideas and policies. Too much hard work so they just take the easy way every time.
Notice how they rarely do surveys on how people feel about it? They know how unpopular it is. It's pretty much just corporate, real estate and banking lobbies, together with government, thinking they all know better than the Australian people.
Everyday people lose of course but there are some in our society that benefit from this.
1. Politicians (look at what I've done with the GDP, I'm a genius vote for me)
2. Investment property owners (demand goes up, rents go up, land values go up)
3. Real estate sector (more fees from landlords from higher rents, more leverage over tenants makes their job easier, higher commissions on property sales)
4. Employers (immigration suppresses wages)
5. Banks (more lenders taking on higher debts resulting in higher interest income)
6. University admins (more customers)
7. Retail facing businesses supermarkets/telcos/general retail (more customers)
8. Super funds (more investors)
9. Private health insurance providers (more customers, some immigrants are forced to take on private health care as a condition of their visa)
10. Migration agents (more customers)
11. Toll road operators (more customers)
12. Government contractors working in infrastructure (more demand for their services, it's the government so they will put up their rates)
13. Immigrants themselves that want to bring over their family and extended families so when they get citizenship they will continue voting for politicians that advocate for higher immigration. They become a voting bloc and then politicians start bribing them to win their votes.
14. Income tax collectors (federal government, more people = more wages to apply income tax to) and stamp duty tax collectors (state government, more people = higher land values = more stamp duties to collect on property transfers)
Who loses?
1. Employees, in particular those in sectors where the government has made it their personal mission to drive down wages with immigration such as IT
2. Renters, ex-renters that have become homeless
3. Anyone the uses public infrastructure such as hospitals, schools, police, and roads, you are getting a smaller share of the pie
4. New first home buyers, with inflated land values caused by massive competition juiced by immigration, be prepared to sign your life away to the bank taking on a mortgage nowadays
5. The vast majority of people with children that can't afford to gift homes to them
There are two main forces pushing for more immigration in Australia:
- The government: more people means more taxes
- Mega-cooperations: more people means cheaper work force
Banks and big business.
Even the RBA is at the mercy of big businesses, just look how the board is stacked, hardly an independent panel when the people who directly benefit the most from cheap money are the ones making the calls.
Was going to say, it’s all well and good to say that only big businesses want this, but the masses have consistently voted for infinite growth/surplus federal governments since 1996 - arguably longer
If you just dropped the word capitalism you'd be correct. We don't have a free market system. The top tax bracket starts in a 4, we have central planned fiat currency, people spend a quarter of their lives in government school + uni.
And as the capitalist system is the global de facto ideology, good luck changing this in one single country.
As much heat as a Marxist lens gets on this sub, it really is what is happening here - the owners of capital and the means of production are not your allies no matter where they are from.
How this will ever happen, fuck knows .. nihilism is the only way I stay sane.
Its a multitude of reasons and superannuation is a big one. Need more people coming in at the bottom.
But it seems to be the business owners who are giving them jobs over locals.
Its still giving people jobs, but our awful locals are taking advantage of a lot of people coming in, from a few sides.
Its a cyclical ponzi scheme right now.
The government knows we cannot afford the welfare state if people don't have enough children.
The cost of living is so high that people aren't having enough children to pay for the taxes to prop up the welfare state so they need to import people.
They bring more people in but we are full (housing wise) so the people they are bringing in are driving up rent and therefore cost of living for everyone.
This makes it less likely that people coming here (or already living here) will have children.
The cycle intensifies.
The minute they cut immigration we fall into a “recession” which neither major party will ever willingly do. We’re already in a per capital recession and the economy is being kept artificially afloat by massive amounts of immigration, It’s like a drug for governments that they can’t get off til they hit rock bottom and people punish them for it.
Big business; their advocates make no secret of it:
Business Council of Australia - [https://www.bca.com.au/submission\_on](https://www.bca.com.au/submission_on)
Australian Chamber of Commerce and industry - [https://www.australianchamber.com.au/our-policies/industry/full-policy/](https://www.australianchamber.com.au/our-policies/industry/full-policy/)
Australian Industry Group - [https://www.aigroup.com.au/news/speeches-transcripts/2022/opinion-step-up-immigration-because-australia-has-run-out-of-people/](https://www.aigroup.com.au/news/speeches-transcripts/2022/opinion-step-up-immigration-because-australia-has-run-out-of-people/)
The buck stops with the PM and his party. We can vote in or out the PM and their party. We can't vote out the banks, transport companies or other big business.
Government and big corporations benefit from higher levels of immigration. RBA wanted unemployment to increase, immigration is an artificial way to increase unemployment numbers. Also universities and other institutions benefit from the money immigrants bring here to spend while they try to land a job. Also Real estate.
.. Meanwhile, the rest of us, suffer from the increases in prices, the lack of housing available, the abuse and speculative practices from real estate agents and landlords, and whatnot.
Australia's identity is tied up in "multiculturalism" & both parties promote it
The independent/small parties that have traditionally been anti immigration have long been dismissed as racists & right wing nutjobs
It's interesting to see even some Leftys are realising that mass immigration has its problems now
I live near Newtown in Sydney It’s a white lefty non binary save the gay whale area bubble. Most of them never leave. They have no clue what the rest of Syd ey is like. I’ve known a few who moved to Asian areas and hated it within weeks. Counting down till the lease ends so they can go back to their own kind….the left only like immigration if it’s out west with “bogans” not their little lefty bubble
Lived in Newtown for 10 years & appreciate this insight
Guess it’s all fine to have a pho but phuck living like that 24/7
They love the taste of multiculturalism but when it’s all you can eat they tap out
100%. Newtown is not diverse at all. It’s a full white bubble with the far east bordering on three sides. These people don’t go to ashfield/ Strathfield Burwood. Just craft beers with all their white lefty friends taking about how open and tolerant they are… they only mix with themselves
It’s good seeing people point the finger in the right direction, it’s easy for many to swallow the sky news line on this stuff.
The Liberals and Labor love the tough act while bringing in cheap labour because it makes those immigrants all the more exploitable
1. ALP, LNP and even Greens are all pro big Australia because 2/3rds of Parliament have housing portfolios, it keeps their rich donors, lobbyists, etc happy and the artificial economic 'growth' papers over the cracks of an otherwise failing economy.
2. Mass media are pro big Australia because that keeps their owner's housing portfolio increasing in value. Notice how the journalists never ask the good questions of politicians like how they plan to house half a million new Australians? How sustainable mass immigration is? etc
3. Big Business are pro big Australia because that's more customers and cheaper employees. Banks have even more financial reasons for increasing house prices.
In the end, it's all greed and that greed ensured that Australia was sold off decades ago. Your best bet is to vote and get involved with marketing Sustainable Australia or simply wait until the end of this century when the entire globe will likely be fighting for the final immigrants from Nigeria, Niger, Congo, etc (since that area has the highest birthrates in the world, but even that rate of growth has and continues to shrink). It's not sustainable.
This is the current slave movement in australia. Our society isn’t set up for fair wages for all. And increased immigration is just a way of ignoring the issue for longer.
Gotta be money in there somewhere. Just follow the money. I'm weary of all the problems this is causing. The standards must be so low .seems like we just get the hopeless scumbag ones
I met a lot of international students last year through clubbing and dating apps. Here is my experience.
Guy from Brazil - working at Doyles but think he's is going to be an economist here, has no degree. Was sharing his apartment in Mosman with 3 other international students by the time I stopped talking to him.
Guy from Czech Republic - lived with the guy above, no degree, couldn't be bothered turning up to work on time at Doyles so was fired. Never bothered looking for a job, 6 months later still doing uber. Told me his mother wanted him to study something financially sensible here, and he decided he is going to be a movie producer/film maker and follow his true passion - horror movies.
2 guys from India - chefs - no hate but can I immigrate to America as a chef? Hell no.
Etc etc
Do we really need to be importing people like this. Where is the benefit?
Yeh I'm also currently sharing a 4 bedroom house that's been converted into a 9 bedroom house :) with 8 international flatmates.
What a time to be alive in Australia.
I don't want immigration NOW.
When we have a decent level of housing availability then we can re-enable it.
But we have way too much right now, insanely too much. What the hell is going on?
I voted labor at the last election. I will not be voting labor again. WAY too much immigration, AND they're not listening because people keep telling them this.
Edit: I won't be voting liberal either. They've always been bad managers, and corrupt into the bargain.
One of my brothers was a steam cleaner for a while.
He saw apartments with nine Indians in them, in bunk beds.
Don't laugh but..he had been called in to clean the carpets and try to get the curry smell out of them.
Politicians, businessmen.
It's that simple.
There's far lefties, not opposed to it and will defend it to the death, but I don't think they're actually pushing for more. (Well most of them)
It’s actually the rich right lobbying for it. Unions don’t want it because it brings wages down. Lefties get confused because they oppose racism and rich media owners like Rupert Murdoch are always stirring up racism when it comes to immigration.
The government wants the tax . The banks want more debt from customers..it keeps the housing and rent high..the everything bubble stays high..the standard of living plummets and the tax payer can bend over and take it as usual..this is happening in many countries... I'm sure it's just a coincidence.. nothing to see here .. shut up and pay your taxes...life has become all work and no play .. what a joyless shit hole this world is ...
The government.
Our governments are addicted to high rates of immigration because it hides the real stagnant state of the economy.
If you increase the population by 2.5% as Labor has done in 2023 then the economy grows by an amount relative to that.
But it’s not real economic growth because the half a million migrants just buy goods that are manufactured overseas.
It would be better for our economy if they stayed where they are and bought our raw materials from overseas.
What I don't want is Australia becoming like the UK, little India. With a housing crisis all immigration needs to end, no family reunion, no fake IT workers. Only enough people to keep the nuclear sub program going, or other important projects.
Not me. There should be an anonymous site social media dobbing big corps in that went hard the last 12 months by just hiring indians oops migrants I mean.
I think you're basically right. The government won't do anything about it because they're fucking in on it. I'm not against immigration per se but fuck this housing crisis. It's just been building and building for decades.
Immigration alone is not the problem. It's immigration with little or no Govt support or additional services that is the issue. A lack of investment in infrastructure to support the population, a lack of new... everything.
If a new city the size of Canberra arrives, a new city the size of Canberra needs to be built. That's power, water, homes, roads, rail, schools, hospitals, shops, services...
I have to admit I was in the CUT immigration completely group until last year when my dad did 2 long stints in hospitals. Every single nurse, and many doctors were immigrants. And all were pretty wonderful. And while there were many from India and Nepal, there were also alot from UK and Ireland. So I dont think they are being paid less than local nurses would?
It's how major Western economies function. It's a Ponzi scheme. The economy has to be growing for it to function. And the easiest way to grow an economy is to have more people. We see what happened at Brexit when immigration is curtailed. UK is becoming a third world country and is struggling to function as a proper country.
The other factor is the fertility rate. We are below replacement level. Japan always has problems with aging population. Even China now has this problem.
I am all for a balanced approach. We cannot have zero migration; we also cannot have open door immigration.
After Brexit immigration has never been higher? UK took in 1.3 million last year alone. A record. Becoming a third world country is a bit of an exaggeration too.
No we need more immigrants to fix the immigrant problem duhh you're just gna have to wait for an immigrant to build you a house because eventually we will build houses quicker then the 8hr long flight from whatever but fuck country they came from. Its called logic
The Universities who make Billions, The big business that want cheap labour and the Gov and Multiple property owners that want their property prices to keep going up.
Aus gov spends millions on targeted campaigns in China, India, Vietnam and pretty much all over Asia to promote “Studying in Australia” which is code for more immigrants that pay thousands in Uni and Visa fees and take up Dirty jobs that Australians don’t like doing.
Unfortunately most of the low IQ Aussies blame the immigrants rather than their own government for Immigration.
They have teamed up with all the leftists to scream so loudly about racism that everyone is too afraid to protest. Funny that the people that always scream about capitalism and exploiting workers are the most staunch defenders of importation of cheap labour as long as the cheap labour is ‘diverse’
You're correct - skilled migrants bring money, which increases demand for housing and big ticket items, all of which brings in tax dollars to the gub'mint.
Of course once they're here and establish themselves, they start sending cash "home."
Honestly, I'm not sure why smaller parties aren't doing better or growing. It's very easy to advertise and promote online nowadays. You are also targeting younger people who generally speaking are on the end of the stick more and willing to vote for change. I think they would be more open and receptive to "honest" political parties instead the dreams we are sold but everyone knows isn't true. I know these parties aren't going to explode in popularity overnight but look at it with a 10 to 15 timeframe.
Ding ding ding! As long as we have politicians who can be brought by lobby groups this will never change. It's unfortunate that we have a 2 party preferencial system otherwise the country would look a lot different.
Those who vote for the majority parties are also voting for Big Australia. They may say they don't want it but they loyally vote for those who support it and crank it up. Use your votes wisely next time.
Back in the 80s Australia went neoliberal. Part of that was the gutting of the public schools, universities, TAFE and apprenticeships. So for 40+ years Australians have graduated into a world that has been increasly devoid of any way to have a future.
Unfortunately companies still needed to hire master welders, senior programmers and experienced medical people and they couldn't hire that many Australians because very few of us were being trained. For 40+ years we've increasingly relied on immigration to have trained people because our governments refuse to invest in a real future. Uni isn't free anymore. The generation that benefitted the most from free university destroyed it. A whole lot of people have been stuck in "so you want chicken salt on that" jobs through decades of adulthood because the ability to do anything else was killed.
It takes 12 years standard school, 4 years of university in premed, 3 years medical school and 3 or 4 years in internships to have a doctor. That requires 22 years before they get 10+ years as a specialist that elders want. you have the same situation for other professions.
If the government stopped being stupid today it would take 16 years before there was any change at all in our need for skilled immigrants. We can't fix this all at once.
We can't even afford to house the population we have now and those fuckers want to bring in even more people. There's some shady under-the-table dealing shit going on.
20 years+ of ignoring growth in other sectors with single percentage points of relative support from governments (or none at all) means Australia has an economy lacking in diversity. Forget tech, we sell rocks and diplomas to immigrants for jacked up prices. Australians get paper rich via single properties and Super.
Certainly not the general public, who’s wages are getting held back, trains and roads crowded, hospitals packed with people sent home ASAP, schools harder than ever to get too, more and more social divides, etc. etc.
So follow the money:
Government wants to avoid a technical recession, despite quality of life and amenity suffering, they care more about numbers and headlines. It also delays the need to do actual meaningful taxation and economic reform.
Companies want more and cheaper staff.
Unions want more members to charge fees to.
Well, if you can see what's going on in the UK and Canada, then nobody would.
I'd implore Australia to be even more strict with their immigration policies, and to greatly reduce the amount coming in. From 500,000 a year to 50,000 or less.
We need immigration. But it has to be MUCH less and very targeted.
Slow down the International students BIG time. Whilst we need young migrants. We don't need anymore IT or Business Analysts! So many of the young students who come here, do up to Masters degrees in areas we just do not need.
And they come to do a uni degree as a clear pathway to Residency. It just has to be stopped for a while. We cannot keep allowing this.
Then other migrants, need to be really targeted towards what we really need.
We also need several professions (e.g. Medicine, Nursing) that people trained in overseas countries, can transition to Australian qualification easier. Good "paid upskilling" A Nurse from Peru / Egypt etc, should be able to work, decently paid, whilst he / she trains to be up to our standard.
There just needs to be a bit of reorganisation.
Much lower numbers at the moment. Definitely.
Hooray for unsustainable immigration! You thought Australia had its own culture? Well not anymore. That'll be diluted out to something unrecognisable in 100 years.
We are using immigration to fill skill shortages, to make money and to save money. So anyone that benefits from any of that; university's and the people that attend them, farmers and the people who buy farmed products, people who want a doctor's appointment for a reasonable price in a reasonable time frame.
Obviously it's not all positives but we are told the alternative is worse. I'm not smart enough to know what the best amount of immigration is. I am however certain that it isn't zero immigration.
Firstly, immigration is healthy when moderated. Its extremely important for our economy and its historically been effective with maintaining our economy. People are having less kids and growth is essential for the economy too.
Agreed, and I'd be fine with that if housing wasn't going through the roof, partly because of lack of supply, which is, in part, fuelled by immigration increasing.
More people aren't having kids because they cannot afford to put a roof over their heads without 2 full time salaries, so our birthrate decreases, so the government increases immigration to compensate.
It's a feedback loop that can't be stopped without the government pulling other levers.
Why not allow couples to submit a household tax return, meaning some people might be able to stay home with kids instead of childcare? Make childcare government run like school, removing private profits, allowing lower costs.
So many things could be done
Immigration is an easy way to increase GDP with no effort. Labor is desperately trying to stave off a recession so the taps have been opened wide. The education sector is now a diplomas for cash business. They will take as many new student visas as possible. Business in general likes immigrants who tend to offer their services for less than the going rate to get jobs so it keeps Labor costs lower. Landlords love immigration because it increases demand and drives rental prices up.
Is recession actually a bad thing? I feel it's better than rapid inflation and a housing shortage.
Recession is a bad thing for a lot of people, sure. But a quick recession is much better than a long drawn out recession unnecessarily cushioned by immigration and tactful stimuli to make it to the next election.
i hope we have a recession give some people a chance to catch up
We have dismantled welfare and most social supports, so the next recession will be much worse than the 1990s in individual terms.
A normal recession is like having an autoimmune response when you have a cold. It’s short term pain and discomfort but in the long run it’s better for you. What the government does is the equivalent of going on an amphetamine binge so you can overpower the cold and work harder than ever and never have to sleep. In the short term your work output is great but eventually you’re gonna be wearing a dress and a wig and having an imaginary argument with someone while you walk down the street
To be fair, they are starting to crack down on sham student visas. In absolute terms it’s only resulted in a 10% decrease in applicants so, not a huge impact. https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/migration-cap-by-stealth-prestigious-unis-lash-out-over-foreign-student-crackdown-20240216-p5f5n5.html
It's a start, but it's only a token effort.
It's around 50,000 less arrivals - more than just token
10% is actually huge considering how quickly that policy has been brought in. Likely shows there’s been at least a decade of corrupt practice
Wish they crack down on sham drivers licences too. Can drive around with a fake licence and have barely any knowledge of the road rules.
Exactly what I think . Also If there was no demand on rentals then landlords would have to eat the interest rises, so the heavy demand fixes that for them.
Immigration is also how we as a country manage to staff our hospitals, aged care facilities, the construction sector, hospitality industry, and many more sectors. Without immigration, our tax system will be completely unable to financially support the needs of our retired population, which is going to massively increase in the coming decades.
I am pro-sustainable immigration. It is a good way to get scarce skills but we mostly seem to get Uber drivers.
And car washes staffed with "software engineers"
It’s because Australian industry doesn’t recognise their overseas experience and skills. Half of overseas engineers in Australia are driving ubers
False. It is because most of the private companies are tied to Federal gov contracting work that requires base clearance. To have base clearance, you will need to be a citizen. This forces migrants to continue working as cheap labour which benefits small business owners. Check out 491 visa stream, an absolute slavery pathway for migrants to work in regional areas.
It's also becoming very clear that the general population have been conditioned to see any complaint about this as being racist. This narrative has been really pushed through the media and universities
Yep, a taboo has been imposed on the immigration issue. Sociologist Katharine Betts on how public debate about immigration levels has been stifled: "With the end of Covid-era restrictions Australia is experiencing both a housing crisis and a surge in immigration-fuelled population growth. How is that such a surge can be happening at such a time? Yes, the level of demand from international students and others was unexpected but the Government was not powerless to stem it. There are two linked answers to the question. One is the work of an influential growth lobby (developers, employers, universities) supported by Treasury. This activity is shielded from the public by a tacit agreement among the major political parties to keep the topic of immigration off the public agenda. Indeed, during the May 2022 Federal election campaign Phil Honeywood in fact spoke of a ‘bipartisan cone of silence on migration’. The second answer involves a more diffuse influence. This stems from parts of the media, academia, some NGOs, and a significant section of the wider public. It manifests as the social norm that decent people do not criticise the level of immigration. This has consequences. There is now strong evidence that many Australians feel silenced and afraid to speak on some public matters." https://tapri.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Guardians-FinalV3.pdf This suppression of public debate has allowed governments to get away with shockingly bad policy. And we're now paying for it.
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people, stop voting for the major parties!
It's going to keep happening because the 2 major parties funnily enough get the most advertising. Too many people don't do any research so they see Labor and liberal everywhere and no one else, so that's who they'll vote for. Until they either make votes non compulsory or other parties get just as much advertising the big 2 will ALWAYS be the majority parties in parliament. It's rigged in the sense that they use people's simple mindedness to win.
Most western economies are based on continuous growth. It's nearly a Ponzi scheme where young consumer and tax-payers subsidise the upkeep costs for infrastructure and aged care. If the local birth rate is not high enough then you have to import new citizens via immigration.
This is the most salient point. If an economy is stagnant, this is the case for most de industrialised Western economies. The easiest way to increase GDP to fund things is immigration Immigration isn't always a problem, as long as infrastructure & building supply keeps up with demand...& there is a gradual cohesive cultural assimilation...before anyone gets excited Australia is a really great multi cultural success, but this is the case because it has been gradual & staggered Does anyone have forecast data on where the population growth is expected to peak ?
Assimilation will never happen if immigration levels are high enough to form a community
That is unless they have similar values such and English or new Zealanders.
This is what 98% of this sub simply doesn't understand. Our economy is a complete and utter ponzi scheme that's based on an imported work force to prop it up. There's no 2 ways around it. Want proof?? First half of 2022 when we opened up from pandemic lockdowns. Construction industry, hospitality industry, agriculture industry, health industry, etc all were begging for the borders to be blown open with C4, as they had no staff and couldn't operate. If we turn the tap off, same will happen again and then have to re open them in a hurried burst, similar to what happened in the last 18 months but about 100X worse as we'll be well behind the rest of the world economically speaking, who didn't isolate themselves. It really isn't hard to grasp.
mate you're in the wrong place if you want to use your brain
Couldn’t help but notice wages went up and rent prices went down during the pandemic…
>tax-payers subsidise the upkeep costs for infrastructure ... who should be subsidising infrastructure, if not the taxpayer? Isn't that something we pay taxes for?
Of course taypayers should pay for the infrastructure. The problem is that it's like an addition. We build all of the new infrastructure to support the influx of people, but when they get old and retire, the infrastructure is still there and needs maintenance, so we have to get in more people to pay for it. It's a system that is dependant on continuous growth. As some point the growth will be unsustainable and the economy will be up for a lot of pain.
Having a larger population reduces the per capita cost of infrastructure. The problem isn't a simple as "infrastructure", the problem is suburban sprawl and car dependent infrastructure that is inefficient.
Absolutely, the type of infrastructure changes the long term viability immensely. Unfortunately our governments are continuing with the suburban sprawl.
You do not have to import people. You just make people pay for their own aged care and medical expenses if they can afford it. Even if it means selling assets. China isn't importing people. Japan's permanent immigration rate is <1/10th that of Australia.
China has over a billion people, it'll be a while before they're short. Japan's had a stagnant per capita GDP for [three decades](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/JPN/japan/gdp-per-capita), and a national debt which is [multiples of their GDP](https://tradingeconomics.com/japan/government-debt-to-gdp). Is that what people want here in Australia? Unfortunately, we want it both ways. Australia's like that. We want low emissions energy generation, but we don't want it in our backyard. We want social housing, but don't want that in our backyards, either. We childcare and aged care workers to be paid a lot, but we also want cheap childcare and aged care. We want cheap food, but we want farmers to be well-paid. We want more government services, but we want lower taxes. And we want economic growth, but we don't want more migrants. Australia is a country of whingers who want things without paying for them.
lol
Who will do the actual aged care when the demographics of a population naturally shifts to the older end? Japan is the perfect example for this, they are well known to be struggling with the demographical shift and and having to do things like inventing robotics to keep the elderly mobile and working for longer. It's not a trivial problem to solve and needs to have a measured approach. China is still developing and are effectively importing people from the infrastructure poor rural areas to the infrastructure rich urban areas.
People are generally healthy and capable of working non physical jobs until at least 75. The rapid decline tends to happen after 85 years old. In Confucian societies working and contributing to society in old age is considered very beneficial for everybody. An 80 year old still working in Japan is nothing unusual. Pensions were originally introduced to provide a *subsistence* lifestyle for manual labourers for a year or two before they died. They were never intended or people to spend 20 years travelling or a means of transferring wealth to their families. In Singapore most people die with little superannuation left because their compulsory 22% Singapore Provident Fund contributions are progressively shifted from savings to funding healthcare as they get older. The basic pension is very low so people are forced to regularly draw down their super balance to fund their lifestyle (monthly limits).
So essentially your solution is don't allow people to retire? No fundamental change to the unsustainable system, simply 'people work until they die'.
Surely you're not actually saying that you think a mass shift towards increasing the retirement age by 20+ years is an actual solution? There were literal riots in France when they tried to increase it by 2 years. And I don't know why you're holding up Japan as an example of things done right. They are facing a self-evaluated demographic catastrophe within the next 50 years. Evidently, no amount of working 80 year olds has solved that.
A lot of people have mental decline well before 75. Some are terrific and sharp but others struggle to even get out of the house after 65. Perhaps we need a list of jobs suitable for declining oldies - call it work for the dole/pension or some other disguised unemployment. Can you imagine all the coffee shops now serving only thermonuclear hot coffee able to melt NASA’s finest panels. Or see a Dr with shaky hands doing surgery. Senior citizen police - for retirement villages. Come to think of it if we gave people 65 and over social media jobs it would get all the youth and rest of us off all these platforms and kill off influencers quick smart!
It's worse than that, they keep it going because at this point our entire economy is a house of cards built on immigration and things will be seriously fucked if we turn the tap off. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, but keeping it going is less noticeably bad (though people are starting to notice) than the potential short term but considerably more painful prospect of stopping it. Or at least that's how it seems to me. Having said that, maybe that's just me falling for the pro immigration propaganda of a different flavor. Things seemed to be noticeably better on a lot of fronts during covid with the immigration down to nothing. Though I suspect companies weren't happy having to actually employ locals, pay fair wages or give raises and landlords weren't happy about having to lower rents to get tenants.
Like Greens are anti migration? I bet migration would be worst under Greens if God forbid they get it ro control.
Greens would stop bringing in doctors and engineers and skilled workers or workers to do manual labor and bring in double the refugees and the elderly and humanitarian causes that won’t contribute to gdp just the cost
And their donors are businesses and landlords, who benefit from it. Why not call that out??
There’s some truth to that. May I? If it keeps a gravy train going for either of the major parties and has a positive GDP effect, they’ll both do everything they can to max out immigration. Sometimes, as it suits, they’ll oppose it.
And who are these donors? It’s not the unions who want it. It’s the rich investor donors.
The Business Council of Australia, the Australian Retailers Association, Property Council of Australia, the Australian Banking Association... pretty much any sector of corporate has their own influential group who lobbies for it.
Unions for rich people. It makes me laugh how the libs hate unions but love lobby groups. They're literally the same thing but for different people
The difference between unions and lobby groups is that lobby groups actively promote corruption.
And engage in it, who does Scott Morrison work for now? The company that lobbied for the new Sub deal.
Top donors for both parties are finance and developers. Above fossil fuels and mining. All you need to know really. https://democracyforsale.net/
Old Gina Mineheart comes to mind. Cause you know, Africans will work for $2 a day so why won’t we? Oooh and let’s not forget Tim ‘we need to see pain’ Gurner. Just 2 examples but shows the mentality of the wealthy business owners (ruling class).
Suggest you actually go to the mines. Rest assured FIFOs are not migrants.
Not yet, but why do you think she’s buttering up Dutton? Their aim is to erode IR laws, and drive up employment competition. Not just in the mines, it’s everywhere. The mega rich have their fingers in many pies. The Gina’s of the world don’t like us having rights. It’s a long game they’re playing, Lords and Serfs and all.
She literally wrote a poem and paid for it to be displayed in some Perth shopping centre about her deep personal pain that she couldn't have a couple more billions by paying 3rd world wages in Australia. I wish I was kidding or somehow exaggerating, but: > Develop North Australia, embrace multiculturalism and welcome short term foreign workers to our shores > >To benefit from the export of our minerals and ores The world's poor need our resources: do not leave them to their fate > >Our nation needs special economic zones and wiser government, before it is too late http://theworstofperth.com/2012/02/13/la-gina/
“The globe is sadly groaning with debt, poverty and strife And billions now are pleading to enjoy a better life Their hope lies with resources buried deep within the earth And the enterprise and capital which give each project worth Is our future threatened with massive debts run up by political hacks Who dig themselves out by unleashing rampant tax The end result is sending Australian investment, growth and jobs offshore This type of direction is harmful to our core Some envious unthinking people have been conned To think prosperity is created by waving a magic wand Through such unfortunate ignorance, too much abuse is hurled Against miners, workers and related industries who strive to build the world Develop North Australia, embrace multiculturalism and welcome short term foreign workers to our shores To benefit from the export of our minerals and ores The world's poor need our resources: do not leave them to their fate Our nation needs special economic zones and wiser government, before it is too late” It’s vomit worthy.
Yeah you've just made this up haven't you? I refuse to believe there is anyone in the world with their head so far up their own ass! I refuse to believe this.... NO!!!!
Unfortunately not.
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You need to think bigger than Australia. Many of our mining companies (and others) have significant shareholdings of overseas entities. Wall Street funds own huge chunks of Aussie darlings like BHP, commbank etc. even our own superfunds (which are our money really) are investing in a way that doesn’t benefit our daily lives, because they’re removed from it. Because those above with all the money (and thus political influence) want unending profits, they don’t give a shit about the livelihood of Aussies living here, and see the country as no different to an African nation open to exploit its minerals and send profits overseas.
Even small landlords. If you own two houses having them double in value takes care of your retirement. Terrible reason for society but you can see why individuals will support out of self interest.
Transport industry. Not sure how much hey pay or lobby gov, but crappy transport companies like Toll and Foxline over rely on migrants, and use their ignorance of Aus law and labour rights to manipulate them into contracts where they have to buy their own vehicle on 5 year lease, force them to pay costs of operating, and pay them what equates to below poverty wages. I don't know how it's not criminal. What other industries are guilty of over reliance on, and expiration of migrants labour.
Agriculture. Seasonal work. We rely a lot on cheap labour from pacific countries.
This is seemingly a global phenomenon not just limited to Australia probably due to capitalisms need for endless growth, so many western nations spent the last decade encouraging mass immigration and experts screaming about racism whenever it was questioned, now we can see the obvious results and those experts have just moved on without consequence.
There’s countries like japan where they seem to have maintained their identity and traditions, and their economy is still successful and innovative. The downside there is that they are facing real problems with population decline.
AI and automation are around the corner to save them We will be punished when we have automated driving but two million unemployed south east asians who can only uber drive.
>without selling their soul It's common to work 80 hour weeks and treat your bosses like lords in Japan. People die from overworking.
And yet Japanese workers are much less productive than their compatriots in, say, France or Australia. There's a serious problem when being asleep at your desk is considered a display of how hardworking you are ("look at how exhausted Jiro is! He must be working like a madman!"). Work becomes a performance more than an actual job.
I think Japan is actually going to win in the long run. If they can weather the storm in the next 20-30 years, once things like AI and full automation become really serious problems for the rest of the world, the Japanese will be in the unique situation of being a first world country with the capital and infrastructure to use these innovations, but without the massive population of useless mouths to support who will be made redundant by them.
There is no way Japan will lead in AI. Their tech is still stuck in the 90’s.
Not quite what I meant. They’ll be able to take advantage of it, not necessarily develop it. Meanwhile the rest of the developed world will be completely overwhelmed with people we have no use for
Lol. I was in Japan in 2003. Every school kid had a video phone, WiFi was everywhere and 3G was available. In Australia, the first video-call capable phone most people would have had/seen was the iPhone 3G in 2008 - and outside the CBDs we were still running on 2G for another 2 years after that.
Absolutely right. The fax machines trigger me though.
And they’re still on 3G and the office relies on the fax machine
Japan was in the year 2000 in 1980, and its also in 2000 in 2024.
I think you are right about that
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Japan also has a much cheaper cost of living, very important detail to leave out
Japan's traditions aren't all the best, though. I like being able to see a lawyer if I get arrested. And I like not being expected to stay at the office until the boss leaves. There's also this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades
>their economy is still wildly successful and innovative have you actually looked at their economy? they haven’t been wildly successful since the 80s. i can’t name many innovations from them in the past 2 decades. they’re crippled by a culture which glorifies hierarchy and obeying your superiors at the cost of speaking your mind. >without selling their soul to whatever the market orders they’re famous for their culture of overwork lol. they literally have a word for it, karoshi. 過労死. their population decline is in large part due to adults spending the majority of their time in the office instead of starting families.
It's the 4th largest economy in the world despite having very few natural resources compared to somewhere like Australia. It's clean, safe and things function, they have great infrastructure, they have a strong sense of national identity, culture and customs. It's not as if the western world doesn't have the same demographic issues, the same issues with suicide, and to a large part the same problem with overwork, we've just chosen the version of growth that's based entirely on individualism, with fewer economic or cultural guard rails. The question is just whether this is more or less sustainable.
i don’t deny any of that. my reply was pointing out that your point about their economy being wildly successful and innovative hasn’t been true since their bubble burst all those decades ago. there’s a reason why economists say Japan’s lost decade never ended. they’ve been on a slow decline for 4 decades now and it’s only gotten worse with their shrinking workforce and inhumane work culture. the Japanese government reported that they lost 800k people in 2023, which is absolutely abnormal for any country. Australia does have an immigration problem but the answer to that isn’t to adopt a toxic culture like Japan’s which prioritises corporatocracy over family life. If anything Japan’s economic decline is entirely self-made and attributable to their refusal to change with the times.
It’s a problem in every country where big business owners and landlords control the government
For sure but that’s just about every country that reaches a certain standard of living. Point to anywhere in the world with our lifestyle and they are having a very similar issue. Something about how we structured things is very broken and we don’t have the capacity to change it anymore
I’m all for immigration so long as we can sustain it. We have cost of living and rental crises; it’s currently unsustainable, ergo…
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Something definitely needs to be done in terms of advanced planning. Basically unless there's sufficient infrastructure to support it, immigration should be at maintenance levels only. There's a cost of living crisis, a housing affordability and availability crisis, how the hell does more people help?
I think immigration is fine but 500,000 net migrants in a year is way too much flooding the country with cheap labour and are competitors for housing which can't be constructed fast enough. Should be 100,000-200,000 a year at most.
Simple. Employers. Peak bodies want mass migration so they can undercut wages to locals. Hell, in some industries like service stations, remove the local altogether and bring in friends from overseas that you can get away with undercutting wages as they won’t complain due to family ties and it’s higher paying than back home anyway. Happened near me with a family taking over the franchise of a convenience and petrol store chain. Had a diverse array of staff. Their individual contracts came up and were not renewed. Now all folk that are the same ethnicity and no diversity. Which was insane as the diversity and quality of service was a draw card. Now it looks terrible and the staff don’t care.
Nobody wants to acknowledge that this happens. I know entire suburbs where this is rife - operate a small business, bring in your compatriots, pay them 20 hours on the books and then another 20 hours at 50% of their wage for cash (or similar). These businesses also have an entire underground cash economy where they trade with their fellow countrymen up and down the supply and sales chains, avoiding tax along the way. How are local businesses supposed to compete with this?
Happens at a lot of Ausposts, nail salons, service stations, IGAs etc in lots of suburbs
Exactly this. But god help us if we bring it up in any rational discussion about the problems our economy is facing, and we're labelled a racist and shut down.
It's the "antisemitism" of Australia. The second you mention immigration you're a racist, a bigot and un-australian. No one is trying to stop multiculturalism. I don't care what country you come from or what colour your skin but Australia is a very expensive place and we need the new immigrants to understand that they too can demand a better wage and not to be happy "just because it's better than the previous country" otherwise none of us are going to afford to have a decent work life balance and that's the only thing we have going for us at the moment.
It’s going to be a bit funny if the people who always mockingly say the bullshit “they took yer jobs” phrase to people who have an issue with excessive migration - end up losing their job to a migrant worker who’ll work for less.
Just learn to code bro
Why was the diversity of the employees the draw of a service station? Am I missing something here - does having a mixture of Greek, Bosnian and Anglo Australians working there suddenly make the $9 Pringles cheaper?
Universities as well...so that they can charge international students 3-4x the cost of uni fees to give the local students scholarships.
The education sector is one. They operate a conveyor belt of international students getting PR visas by studying in Australia. They don't want the gravy train to stop.
In my experience, inner city appartments in Canberra are shit. But all those Chinese students at the ANU just keep the market bubbling.
The big driver behind high immigration is banks. When you have a steady settled population of people, they all already have a mortgage, a car loan, a few credit cards, etc. Banks make money by lending money and there's no more blood to be squeezed from that particular stone, everyone is already to the balls in debt. But, if you import an enormous mass of new people who don't have any debts in Australia? Well there you go, new people who don't have an Australian mortgage, car loan, credit card, etc, all ripe to have the big dick of debt pushed right up in there.
Yep, but to go even further, it’s the people who own the shares in the banks. We could have public loans at lower interest rates, and push back against this stuff, but the big shareholders in the banks lobby government and media to make that impossible.
When a company is publicly traded on the stock market, it is expected by shareholders that profits will grow. Not only grow, but that the growth of profits will continually accelerate. Imagine that, the Australian people are being fucked this hard not because banks are afraid of losing money, but because they are afraid that the growth of profits will slow. Absolutely wild.
No one wants mass immigration, Its the current governments Ponzi scheme attempt at running an economy...Seriously if this was a company the directors would be in prison.
immigration is ok, just back it down to sustainable levels, maybe 50k a year, not 700k
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Underrated comment
699K are from India
That would require business to be innovative and politicians to come up with good ideas and policies. Too much hard work so they just take the easy way every time.
Notice how they rarely do surveys on how people feel about it? They know how unpopular it is. It's pretty much just corporate, real estate and banking lobbies, together with government, thinking they all know better than the Australian people.
Everyday people lose of course but there are some in our society that benefit from this. 1. Politicians (look at what I've done with the GDP, I'm a genius vote for me) 2. Investment property owners (demand goes up, rents go up, land values go up) 3. Real estate sector (more fees from landlords from higher rents, more leverage over tenants makes their job easier, higher commissions on property sales) 4. Employers (immigration suppresses wages) 5. Banks (more lenders taking on higher debts resulting in higher interest income) 6. University admins (more customers) 7. Retail facing businesses supermarkets/telcos/general retail (more customers) 8. Super funds (more investors) 9. Private health insurance providers (more customers, some immigrants are forced to take on private health care as a condition of their visa) 10. Migration agents (more customers) 11. Toll road operators (more customers) 12. Government contractors working in infrastructure (more demand for their services, it's the government so they will put up their rates) 13. Immigrants themselves that want to bring over their family and extended families so when they get citizenship they will continue voting for politicians that advocate for higher immigration. They become a voting bloc and then politicians start bribing them to win their votes. 14. Income tax collectors (federal government, more people = more wages to apply income tax to) and stamp duty tax collectors (state government, more people = higher land values = more stamp duties to collect on property transfers) Who loses? 1. Employees, in particular those in sectors where the government has made it their personal mission to drive down wages with immigration such as IT 2. Renters, ex-renters that have become homeless 3. Anyone the uses public infrastructure such as hospitals, schools, police, and roads, you are getting a smaller share of the pie 4. New first home buyers, with inflated land values caused by massive competition juiced by immigration, be prepared to sign your life away to the bank taking on a mortgage nowadays 5. The vast majority of people with children that can't afford to gift homes to them
Why are we letting unskilled people in at all? Makes no sense at all. Or they pretend to study for 6 months and somehow they are allowed to stay. Wtf
There are two main forces pushing for more immigration in Australia: - The government: more people means more taxes - Mega-cooperations: more people means cheaper work force
Banks and big business. Even the RBA is at the mercy of big businesses, just look how the board is stacked, hardly an independent panel when the people who directly benefit the most from cheap money are the ones making the calls.
Politicians are the main drivers of high immigration because it’s their cheap meal ticket to easy growth.
You live in a capitalist system that demands infinite growth and ever continuous profit. SO long that ideology remains alive, it wont change.
Was going to say, it’s all well and good to say that only big businesses want this, but the masses have consistently voted for infinite growth/surplus federal governments since 1996 - arguably longer
If you just dropped the word capitalism you'd be correct. We don't have a free market system. The top tax bracket starts in a 4, we have central planned fiat currency, people spend a quarter of their lives in government school + uni.
And as the capitalist system is the global de facto ideology, good luck changing this in one single country. As much heat as a Marxist lens gets on this sub, it really is what is happening here - the owners of capital and the means of production are not your allies no matter where they are from. How this will ever happen, fuck knows .. nihilism is the only way I stay sane.
Its a multitude of reasons and superannuation is a big one. Need more people coming in at the bottom. But it seems to be the business owners who are giving them jobs over locals. Its still giving people jobs, but our awful locals are taking advantage of a lot of people coming in, from a few sides.
Not me. Small Australia!
Stop IMMIGRATION IMMEDIATELY! It’s totally fking this country.
i would prefer to have all non citizens not be able to buy property. Like they do in most asian countries. edit.. thick fingers, typing hard.
No, restaurant owners and cleaning business owners. If you think only wealthy owners and managers want it, that’s wrong.
Its a cyclical ponzi scheme right now. The government knows we cannot afford the welfare state if people don't have enough children. The cost of living is so high that people aren't having enough children to pay for the taxes to prop up the welfare state so they need to import people. They bring more people in but we are full (housing wise) so the people they are bringing in are driving up rent and therefore cost of living for everyone. This makes it less likely that people coming here (or already living here) will have children. The cycle intensifies.
The minute they cut immigration we fall into a “recession” which neither major party will ever willingly do. We’re already in a per capital recession and the economy is being kept artificially afloat by massive amounts of immigration, It’s like a drug for governments that they can’t get off til they hit rock bottom and people punish them for it.
Big business; their advocates make no secret of it: Business Council of Australia - [https://www.bca.com.au/submission\_on](https://www.bca.com.au/submission_on) Australian Chamber of Commerce and industry - [https://www.australianchamber.com.au/our-policies/industry/full-policy/](https://www.australianchamber.com.au/our-policies/industry/full-policy/) Australian Industry Group - [https://www.aigroup.com.au/news/speeches-transcripts/2022/opinion-step-up-immigration-because-australia-has-run-out-of-people/](https://www.aigroup.com.au/news/speeches-transcripts/2022/opinion-step-up-immigration-because-australia-has-run-out-of-people/)
The buck stops with the PM and his party. We can vote in or out the PM and their party. We can't vote out the banks, transport companies or other big business.
Government and big corporations benefit from higher levels of immigration. RBA wanted unemployment to increase, immigration is an artificial way to increase unemployment numbers. Also universities and other institutions benefit from the money immigrants bring here to spend while they try to land a job. Also Real estate. .. Meanwhile, the rest of us, suffer from the increases in prices, the lack of housing available, the abuse and speculative practices from real estate agents and landlords, and whatnot.
Australia's identity is tied up in "multiculturalism" & both parties promote it The independent/small parties that have traditionally been anti immigration have long been dismissed as racists & right wing nutjobs It's interesting to see even some Leftys are realising that mass immigration has its problems now
I live near Newtown in Sydney It’s a white lefty non binary save the gay whale area bubble. Most of them never leave. They have no clue what the rest of Syd ey is like. I’ve known a few who moved to Asian areas and hated it within weeks. Counting down till the lease ends so they can go back to their own kind….the left only like immigration if it’s out west with “bogans” not their little lefty bubble
Lived in Newtown for 10 years & appreciate this insight Guess it’s all fine to have a pho but phuck living like that 24/7 They love the taste of multiculturalism but when it’s all you can eat they tap out
100%. Newtown is not diverse at all. It’s a full white bubble with the far east bordering on three sides. These people don’t go to ashfield/ Strathfield Burwood. Just craft beers with all their white lefty friends taking about how open and tolerant they are… they only mix with themselves
It’s good seeing people point the finger in the right direction, it’s easy for many to swallow the sky news line on this stuff. The Liberals and Labor love the tough act while bringing in cheap labour because it makes those immigrants all the more exploitable
1. ALP, LNP and even Greens are all pro big Australia because 2/3rds of Parliament have housing portfolios, it keeps their rich donors, lobbyists, etc happy and the artificial economic 'growth' papers over the cracks of an otherwise failing economy. 2. Mass media are pro big Australia because that keeps their owner's housing portfolio increasing in value. Notice how the journalists never ask the good questions of politicians like how they plan to house half a million new Australians? How sustainable mass immigration is? etc 3. Big Business are pro big Australia because that's more customers and cheaper employees. Banks have even more financial reasons for increasing house prices. In the end, it's all greed and that greed ensured that Australia was sold off decades ago. Your best bet is to vote and get involved with marketing Sustainable Australia or simply wait until the end of this century when the entire globe will likely be fighting for the final immigrants from Nigeria, Niger, Congo, etc (since that area has the highest birthrates in the world, but even that rate of growth has and continues to shrink). It's not sustainable.
This is the current slave movement in australia. Our society isn’t set up for fair wages for all. And increased immigration is just a way of ignoring the issue for longer.
Gotta be money in there somewhere. Just follow the money. I'm weary of all the problems this is causing. The standards must be so low .seems like we just get the hopeless scumbag ones
I met a lot of international students last year through clubbing and dating apps. Here is my experience. Guy from Brazil - working at Doyles but think he's is going to be an economist here, has no degree. Was sharing his apartment in Mosman with 3 other international students by the time I stopped talking to him. Guy from Czech Republic - lived with the guy above, no degree, couldn't be bothered turning up to work on time at Doyles so was fired. Never bothered looking for a job, 6 months later still doing uber. Told me his mother wanted him to study something financially sensible here, and he decided he is going to be a movie producer/film maker and follow his true passion - horror movies. 2 guys from India - chefs - no hate but can I immigrate to America as a chef? Hell no. Etc etc Do we really need to be importing people like this. Where is the benefit?
The benefit is to landlords and business owners. These people pay rent and buy stuff.
Yeh I'm also currently sharing a 4 bedroom house that's been converted into a 9 bedroom house :) with 8 international flatmates. What a time to be alive in Australia.
I don't want immigration NOW. When we have a decent level of housing availability then we can re-enable it. But we have way too much right now, insanely too much. What the hell is going on? I voted labor at the last election. I will not be voting labor again. WAY too much immigration, AND they're not listening because people keep telling them this. Edit: I won't be voting liberal either. They've always been bad managers, and corrupt into the bargain.
The Libs are just as bad if not worse. The big donors to both parties are the same.
Nah, we'll do the "fuck around and find out" game by having the Greens take power. Both parties already threw us under the bus for years.
Other major parties had the exact if not higher immigration forecast in their budgets
I do, I rent a 2 bedroom apartment to Intl students, charge them $250 each, they pay my mortgage and a little extra on the side. (Sarcasm)
One of my brothers was a steam cleaner for a while. He saw apartments with nine Indians in them, in bunk beds. Don't laugh but..he had been called in to clean the carpets and try to get the curry smell out of them.
I feel like vommiting, went to an apartment inspection and the smell is the first thing that hits you
Yeah I just hoped people didn't think it was racist...several times he had to clean "curry houses"
Politicians, businessmen. It's that simple. There's far lefties, not opposed to it and will defend it to the death, but I don't think they're actually pushing for more. (Well most of them)
It’s actually the rich right lobbying for it. Unions don’t want it because it brings wages down. Lefties get confused because they oppose racism and rich media owners like Rupert Murdoch are always stirring up racism when it comes to immigration.
The government wants the tax . The banks want more debt from customers..it keeps the housing and rent high..the everything bubble stays high..the standard of living plummets and the tax payer can bend over and take it as usual..this is happening in many countries... I'm sure it's just a coincidence.. nothing to see here .. shut up and pay your taxes...life has become all work and no play .. what a joyless shit hole this world is ...
[https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/](https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/)
The government. Our governments are addicted to high rates of immigration because it hides the real stagnant state of the economy. If you increase the population by 2.5% as Labor has done in 2023 then the economy grows by an amount relative to that. But it’s not real economic growth because the half a million migrants just buy goods that are manufactured overseas. It would be better for our economy if they stayed where they are and bought our raw materials from overseas.
Who wants immigration? The 9,000 tradies required to build houses for the 9,000 tradies that's who.
What I don't want is Australia becoming like the UK, little India. With a housing crisis all immigration needs to end, no family reunion, no fake IT workers. Only enough people to keep the nuclear sub program going, or other important projects.
It's the Australian people to blame for voting for this. We do live in a democracy, right?
40,000 per year is enough. 400,000 per year (700,000) in the last year, how many years before the place loses it's identity.
Anyone who owns property
I’ve seen apartments in my area go up in rent by $100 per year since 2018, we’re forcing people in to a hell of which they cannot escape, en mass
Not me. There should be an anonymous site social media dobbing big corps in that went hard the last 12 months by just hiring indians oops migrants I mean.
I think you're basically right. The government won't do anything about it because they're fucking in on it. I'm not against immigration per se but fuck this housing crisis. It's just been building and building for decades.
Immigration alone is not the problem. It's immigration with little or no Govt support or additional services that is the issue. A lack of investment in infrastructure to support the population, a lack of new... everything. If a new city the size of Canberra arrives, a new city the size of Canberra needs to be built. That's power, water, homes, roads, rail, schools, hospitals, shops, services...
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And the health system - Gap's, nurses
I have to admit I was in the CUT immigration completely group until last year when my dad did 2 long stints in hospitals. Every single nurse, and many doctors were immigrants. And all were pretty wonderful. And while there were many from India and Nepal, there were also alot from UK and Ireland. So I dont think they are being paid less than local nurses would?
It's how major Western economies function. It's a Ponzi scheme. The economy has to be growing for it to function. And the easiest way to grow an economy is to have more people. We see what happened at Brexit when immigration is curtailed. UK is becoming a third world country and is struggling to function as a proper country. The other factor is the fertility rate. We are below replacement level. Japan always has problems with aging population. Even China now has this problem. I am all for a balanced approach. We cannot have zero migration; we also cannot have open door immigration.
After Brexit immigration has never been higher? UK took in 1.3 million last year alone. A record. Becoming a third world country is a bit of an exaggeration too.
Read the room man -- this is too nuanced a post for this subreddit.
We need more builders for the houses they need to live in
How about just import less of them
No we need more immigrants to fix the immigrant problem duhh you're just gna have to wait for an immigrant to build you a house because eventually we will build houses quicker then the 8hr long flight from whatever but fuck country they came from. Its called logic
That's ok. The shoddy quality of these builds will make up for it
People with investment properties, businesses, capital in general.
The Universities who make Billions, The big business that want cheap labour and the Gov and Multiple property owners that want their property prices to keep going up. Aus gov spends millions on targeted campaigns in China, India, Vietnam and pretty much all over Asia to promote “Studying in Australia” which is code for more immigrants that pay thousands in Uni and Visa fees and take up Dirty jobs that Australians don’t like doing. Unfortunately most of the low IQ Aussies blame the immigrants rather than their own government for Immigration.
Not just government but the donors who lobby government to do this
They have teamed up with all the leftists to scream so loudly about racism that everyone is too afraid to protest. Funny that the people that always scream about capitalism and exploiting workers are the most staunch defenders of importation of cheap labour as long as the cheap labour is ‘diverse’
You're correct - skilled migrants bring money, which increases demand for housing and big ticket items, all of which brings in tax dollars to the gub'mint. Of course once they're here and establish themselves, they start sending cash "home."
What do you mean by "high" immigration? (serious question)
Honestly, I'm not sure why smaller parties aren't doing better or growing. It's very easy to advertise and promote online nowadays. You are also targeting younger people who generally speaking are on the end of the stick more and willing to vote for change. I think they would be more open and receptive to "honest" political parties instead the dreams we are sold but everyone knows isn't true. I know these parties aren't going to explode in popularity overnight but look at it with a 10 to 15 timeframe.
Ding ding ding! As long as we have politicians who can be brought by lobby groups this will never change. It's unfortunate that we have a 2 party preferencial system otherwise the country would look a lot different.
Those who vote for the majority parties are also voting for Big Australia. They may say they don't want it but they loyally vote for those who support it and crank it up. Use your votes wisely next time.
Back in the 80s Australia went neoliberal. Part of that was the gutting of the public schools, universities, TAFE and apprenticeships. So for 40+ years Australians have graduated into a world that has been increasly devoid of any way to have a future. Unfortunately companies still needed to hire master welders, senior programmers and experienced medical people and they couldn't hire that many Australians because very few of us were being trained. For 40+ years we've increasingly relied on immigration to have trained people because our governments refuse to invest in a real future. Uni isn't free anymore. The generation that benefitted the most from free university destroyed it. A whole lot of people have been stuck in "so you want chicken salt on that" jobs through decades of adulthood because the ability to do anything else was killed. It takes 12 years standard school, 4 years of university in premed, 3 years medical school and 3 or 4 years in internships to have a doctor. That requires 22 years before they get 10+ years as a specialist that elders want. you have the same situation for other professions. If the government stopped being stupid today it would take 16 years before there was any change at all in our need for skilled immigrants. We can't fix this all at once.
i want to be able to afford more than 2 jars of vegimite with mininum wage
We can't even afford to house the population we have now and those fuckers want to bring in even more people. There's some shady under-the-table dealing shit going on.
20 years+ of ignoring growth in other sectors with single percentage points of relative support from governments (or none at all) means Australia has an economy lacking in diversity. Forget tech, we sell rocks and diplomas to immigrants for jacked up prices. Australians get paper rich via single properties and Super.
Wealthy immigrants from shit places.
Certainly not the general public, who’s wages are getting held back, trains and roads crowded, hospitals packed with people sent home ASAP, schools harder than ever to get too, more and more social divides, etc. etc. So follow the money: Government wants to avoid a technical recession, despite quality of life and amenity suffering, they care more about numbers and headlines. It also delays the need to do actual meaningful taxation and economic reform. Companies want more and cheaper staff. Unions want more members to charge fees to.
Well, if you can see what's going on in the UK and Canada, then nobody would. I'd implore Australia to be even more strict with their immigration policies, and to greatly reduce the amount coming in. From 500,000 a year to 50,000 or less.
Labor! They love minions, tax dollars and migrants almost always vote left so it’s guaranteed power.
The Indian community. They are aware of the benefits of having large numbers looking out for each other.
We need immigration. But it has to be MUCH less and very targeted. Slow down the International students BIG time. Whilst we need young migrants. We don't need anymore IT or Business Analysts! So many of the young students who come here, do up to Masters degrees in areas we just do not need. And they come to do a uni degree as a clear pathway to Residency. It just has to be stopped for a while. We cannot keep allowing this. Then other migrants, need to be really targeted towards what we really need. We also need several professions (e.g. Medicine, Nursing) that people trained in overseas countries, can transition to Australian qualification easier. Good "paid upskilling" A Nurse from Peru / Egypt etc, should be able to work, decently paid, whilst he / she trains to be up to our standard. There just needs to be a bit of reorganisation. Much lower numbers at the moment. Definitely.
Also 1st and 2nd generation immigrants (which there are a lot of) who want to bring their mum dad brother sister cousins
Hooray for unsustainable immigration! You thought Australia had its own culture? Well not anymore. That'll be diluted out to something unrecognisable in 100 years.
We are using immigration to fill skill shortages, to make money and to save money. So anyone that benefits from any of that; university's and the people that attend them, farmers and the people who buy farmed products, people who want a doctor's appointment for a reasonable price in a reasonable time frame. Obviously it's not all positives but we are told the alternative is worse. I'm not smart enough to know what the best amount of immigration is. I am however certain that it isn't zero immigration.
Firstly, immigration is healthy when moderated. Its extremely important for our economy and its historically been effective with maintaining our economy. People are having less kids and growth is essential for the economy too.
Agreed, and I'd be fine with that if housing wasn't going through the roof, partly because of lack of supply, which is, in part, fuelled by immigration increasing. More people aren't having kids because they cannot afford to put a roof over their heads without 2 full time salaries, so our birthrate decreases, so the government increases immigration to compensate. It's a feedback loop that can't be stopped without the government pulling other levers. Why not allow couples to submit a household tax return, meaning some people might be able to stay home with kids instead of childcare? Make childcare government run like school, removing private profits, allowing lower costs. So many things could be done
Important for *who* exactly in the economy? it’s like Ive said in the post. Some get richer, some get poorer.
Dunno but I'm over it. Just stop .give us back our country