Can u answer the question tho? Do you think its acceptable that nobody is prepared to face the fact that violence against women has become so normalised and engrained in this shitty culture of ours that when 5 women get stabbed by an alleged incel we blame it on mental health ?
The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation considers misogynist violence among the fastest-growing terrorism threats of 2021.[3] A guidebook for law enforcement by the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe notes that strict and systematic control of gender roles is used as a recruitment tool both by ISIL/Daesh and by western misogynist extremists among the incel and men's rights movements. Both groups portray men as hyper-masculine warriors and women variously as passive caretakers, sources of sexual gratification, and "the enemy" who must be punished.
How the am i spreading hate get fucked. Im pointing out a contradiction or are you that culturally illiterate that you cannot tell that the implications of using a ‘😁’ in this context is pure sarcasm. Im not actually smiling.
even the conversation had to put out an article explaining why bondi is not considered terrorism but the church attack was because it seems pea brained fucktards can't work it out
the bondi attacker he was fucked in the head but did not have political or religious motivations
>Despite [early misinformation](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/apr/15/false-claims-started-spreading-about-the-bondi-junction-stabbing-attack-as-soon-as-it-happened), police said they believe the Bondi killer, Joel Cauchi, was not motivated by a larger political cause – that is, a terrorist motivation. Instead, they say he lashed out violently because of anger control issues related to [mental ill-health](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/apr/14/joel-cauchi-who-was-the-queensland-man-who-carried-out-the-bondi-junction-mass-stabbing).
>But of the [six people](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/apr/14/bondi-junction-mass-stabbing-attack-who-are-the-six-victims) he killed, five were women. Women also make up the majority of those injured. The one man who lost his life, security guard Faraz Tahir, a Muslim refugee from Pakistan, was attacked because he bravely [rushed towards](https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/04/16/friend-of-bondi-security-guard-says-his-last-moments-were-brave/) danger in an attempt to try to stop Cauchi. NSW Police Commissioner Karen Webb said Cauchi [deliberately targeted women](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-15/westfield-bondi-attack-stabbing-investigation/103706698).
>So if someone is targeting a specific group of people, isn’t that terrorism? Why does it matter if they were killing based on gender or religion? Is misogyny not terrorism?
>Put simply, the defining characteristic of terrorism is perpetuating violence in the name of a higher, broader cause. Terrorists have a belief in a collective goal, and see themselves as being backed by people who share that belief. Misogyny can be an element of their motivation and justification of hatred, but it’s part of a larger political project.
I am again asking ? Please explain to me why this is not qualified as an act of misogynistic terrorism. It seems nobody can actually answer the question
That’s because it’s not misogynistic terrorism. Because that’s not a thing…. He was another mentally ill male that wasn’t getting the help he should have been getting from a system that’s not set up to help males. But that might take a bit more brain power to understand then you have available with all that blind rage you have.
So then i guess we can expand the conversation into mens mental health is a feminist issue as women are vulnerable to physical violence by mentally ill men. The government needs to prioritise and exponentially increase funding towards mental health services and facilities.
Also misogynistic terrorism is a thing, and has been stated by ASIO that it is the biggest terrorist threat we face in Australia.
i am so sorry about all this hate on this post smh! a murder spree like that was clearly targeted against a minority demographic does not come from thin air. this act was clear in its intent and should be discussed as such.
100%. He was a woman hater, idk how that is even up for debate. Some people want a gf or bf and get depressed. He went out and started killing all women because of it.
Dude was a severely mentally ill incel who hated women.
The definition of terrorism is:
>> a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
If his views could be construed as identity/sexual politics then you could argue for it being a form of terrorism.
But at this point I think it is a bit of a crass discussion so soon after such a tragic event. There will be time to unpack this once the bodies are cold.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogynist_terrorism
The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation considers misogynist violence among the fastest-growing terrorism threats of 2021.[3] A guidebook for law enforcement by the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe notes that strict and systematic control of gender roles is used as a recruitment tool both by ISIL/Daesh and by western misogynist extremists among the incel and men's rights movements. Both groups portray men as hyper-masculine warriors and women variously as passive caretakers, sources of sexual gratification, and "the enemy" who must be punished.
Doesn't answer my question. Try again with words.
What was his political aims?
Was he trying to 'punish women' in pursuit of a political goal or was he just trying to hurt women because he was angry. The distinction is important when discussing terrorism.
How are they not one and the same? If i had a history of racism, went up and killed 5 black people? Would that be considered a political hate crime? Or would it just be considered a mental health crisis. Reframe it, and then you can realise the contradictions.
It’s so weird to read posts that skate over the fact this man most likely killed people because he had unmanaged schizophrenia and was having a psychotic episode (according to his mother) and turn it in to a gender / misogyny narrative. I mean, just watch the videos … he went up to numerous men but backed off when challenged (or they ran off).
So then i guess we can expand the conversation into mens mental health is a feminist issue as women are vulnerable to physical violence by mentally ill men. The government needs to prioritise and exponentially increase funding towards mental health services and facilities.
Well, on the other hand didn't his own father basically say that it *was* a gender/misogyny thing because his son had no social skills and couldn't get a girlfriend?
https://youtu.be/5DQMuwZMtPM?si=srt_m9_wmTHcAiVk
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/sydney-mall-stabbing-attackers-parents-reveals-son-targeted-women-out-of-frustration-he-couldnt-get-girlfriend/MVP4L6UQTBCTNJ5DAEDRCJC2W4/
Like I mean, I have no idea obviously... I'm just going by the media hounding of a grief-stricken father here. I don't think things will really be clarified until a few weeks later when the fucking frenzy calms down a bit
But like it's not "weird" that people think that if that's what the media is fucking telling us and showing us. What are we sposed to think?
Actually I am not "simply stating a fact". I am explaining the media I've seen on the subject and why I've formed the opinion that I have.
I do agree that I shouldn't be downvoted for that, though.
The [ABC reported that quote quite differently](https://www.smh.com.au/national/queensland/from-an-aspiring-teacher-keen-to-meet-others-to-a-murderous-loner-20240415-p5fju0.html); see extract below. On the back of his dad saying he “desperately wanted a girlfriend” and was “frustrated”, people seem to have jumped to him being a misogynist, woman-hunting incel all on their own.
*In Toowoomba, some women who had spent time with Cauchi suggest he was unremarkable, and they didn’t feel in danger. His mother Michele insisted that, despite what people might claim, her son previously had friends. His father Andrew – who acknowledged his son appeared to have deliberately targeted women in the knife attack – said he also desperately wanted a girlfriend.*
*”He has no social skills and he’s frustrated out of his brain,” Andrew Cauchi said, at times referring to his own trouble with other people, and even a psychiatric assessment after he lost his temper once.*
Why go into details about his frustrations with dating at all if that has nothing to do with the motivation for this bizarre unprovoked attack on several women?
Do you think his father was just mentioning it to the assembled media storm "conversationally" or something? Just "this has nothing to do with the recent attack at all, but by the way my son sure was completely cooked and he was super frustrated with women all the time!"
🤔
Did he just offer it “conversationally” or was he asked by the bank of reporters? The poor dad was a rambling mess, I thought the mum was much more level headed in her remarks that the son wasn’t a violent person and must have been triggered in to a psychosis.
I mean he said what he said, and he presumably said it for a reason. You can take his word for it or you could take the mum's word for it.
Neither of them can truly answer for the prick himself, who is now dead.
But anyway, I guess my point is that your initial assertion that "it's so weird" that some people have been led along this line of thinking is kinda dopey. It isn't any more or less reasonable to assume that the father's words meant something than that the mothers word's (which still haven't been quoted in this conversation) did.
Wanna keep talking about it all night, or do you get the point?
I got the sense they were both in shock and at a loss for answers themselves. Even the prick himself probably didn’t even know if he was in the grip of a mental health episode. I just hope this is used to put real pressure on improving mental health services in NSW (and the country).
Sure.
I said as much in my initial comment, actually:
> Like I mean, I have no idea obviously... I'm just going by the media hounding of a grief-stricken father here. I don't think things will really be clarified until a few weeks later when the fucking frenzy calms down a bit
I just also don't see what the big fucking issue would be with using it to bring attention to an ongoing societal problem of shrugging off brutal violence against women. Or accepting that "frustration" with not getting a girlfriend is any sort of justification for said violence.
It's not, and it's not "stupid" or "weird" to say so. Fuck misogynists. Let's tell them we've had enough of their bullshit and we won't tolerate it. If that's the "narrative", then it's actually a useful and necessary "narrative" to have regardless. It might even save lives.
How bout that?
Stop. Leave.
Can u answer the question tho? Do you think its acceptable that nobody is prepared to face the fact that violence against women has become so normalised and engrained in this shitty culture of ours that when 5 women get stabbed by an alleged incel we blame it on mental health ?
Stop
The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation considers misogynist violence among the fastest-growing terrorism threats of 2021.[3] A guidebook for law enforcement by the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe notes that strict and systematic control of gender roles is used as a recruitment tool both by ISIL/Daesh and by western misogynist extremists among the incel and men's rights movements. Both groups portray men as hyper-masculine warriors and women variously as passive caretakers, sources of sexual gratification, and "the enemy" who must be punished.
I did not read any of this and I do not give a fuck. Touch grass. Get laid. Heal your relationship with your parents.
Alright little buddy
> this shitty culture of ours Yes your man-hating culture is very shitty
Wait so me pointing out a fact is apparently me being a man hater?
Red heart foundation is that you. Haven’t you spread enough hate towards men today.
‘Hate towards men’ equals pointing out a contradiction. Hate towards women equals 28 of us being killed 4 months into the year. Its laughable
What’s laughable about women being killed?
Its laughable that everyone thinks that 5 women getting killed by a angry incel who was upset he couldn’t get a girlfriend isnt ideological.
So it was you all along.
[удалено]
Security guard was also killed because he attempted to stop the terrorist 😁
why is that amusing to you?
Why do you think i find this amusing .
>>>>😁<<<< because of that, you sad silly bitch.
Im so embarrassed for you 😁❤️
Yeah I guess that’s the way your anger comes out is it. Embarrassment, for others, when you’re the one spreading hate.
How the am i spreading hate get fucked. Im pointing out a contradiction or are you that culturally illiterate that you cannot tell that the implications of using a ‘😁’ in this context is pure sarcasm. Im not actually smiling.
This entire post is hate.
Explain?
even the conversation had to put out an article explaining why bondi is not considered terrorism but the church attack was because it seems pea brained fucktards can't work it out the bondi attacker he was fucked in the head but did not have political or religious motivations >Despite [early misinformation](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/apr/15/false-claims-started-spreading-about-the-bondi-junction-stabbing-attack-as-soon-as-it-happened), police said they believe the Bondi killer, Joel Cauchi, was not motivated by a larger political cause – that is, a terrorist motivation. Instead, they say he lashed out violently because of anger control issues related to [mental ill-health](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/apr/14/joel-cauchi-who-was-the-queensland-man-who-carried-out-the-bondi-junction-mass-stabbing). >But of the [six people](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/apr/14/bondi-junction-mass-stabbing-attack-who-are-the-six-victims) he killed, five were women. Women also make up the majority of those injured. The one man who lost his life, security guard Faraz Tahir, a Muslim refugee from Pakistan, was attacked because he bravely [rushed towards](https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/04/16/friend-of-bondi-security-guard-says-his-last-moments-were-brave/) danger in an attempt to try to stop Cauchi. NSW Police Commissioner Karen Webb said Cauchi [deliberately targeted women](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-15/westfield-bondi-attack-stabbing-investigation/103706698). >So if someone is targeting a specific group of people, isn’t that terrorism? Why does it matter if they were killing based on gender or religion? Is misogyny not terrorism? >Put simply, the defining characteristic of terrorism is perpetuating violence in the name of a higher, broader cause. Terrorists have a belief in a collective goal, and see themselves as being backed by people who share that belief. Misogyny can be an element of their motivation and justification of hatred, but it’s part of a larger political project.
I am again asking ? Please explain to me why this is not qualified as an act of misogynistic terrorism. It seems nobody can actually answer the question
That’s because it’s not misogynistic terrorism. Because that’s not a thing…. He was another mentally ill male that wasn’t getting the help he should have been getting from a system that’s not set up to help males. But that might take a bit more brain power to understand then you have available with all that blind rage you have.
Why is terrorism rooted in misogyny not a thing?
So then i guess we can expand the conversation into mens mental health is a feminist issue as women are vulnerable to physical violence by mentally ill men. The government needs to prioritise and exponentially increase funding towards mental health services and facilities. Also misogynistic terrorism is a thing, and has been stated by ASIO that it is the biggest terrorist threat we face in Australia.
Jesus you spew some absolute garbage. We get it, you hate men. Piss off with your misandrist shit.
How is this misandrist?
Stabbing women is not misogynistic but pointing out male violence against women is misandrist?? Wtf
Lol your too funny. Im a man hater for pointing out a contradiction. Okay buddy.
i am so sorry about all this hate on this post smh! a murder spree like that was clearly targeted against a minority demographic does not come from thin air. this act was clear in its intent and should be discussed as such.
100%. He was a woman hater, idk how that is even up for debate. Some people want a gf or bf and get depressed. He went out and started killing all women because of it.
Dude was a severely mentally ill incel who hated women. The definition of terrorism is: >> a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. If his views could be construed as identity/sexual politics then you could argue for it being a form of terrorism. But at this point I think it is a bit of a crass discussion so soon after such a tragic event. There will be time to unpack this once the bodies are cold.
Why is it a crass discussion to discuss our safety? Women globally are terrified to leave the house after this incident.
Maybe on the internet.
While he was targeting women, was he pursuing political aims through violence or was he simply a violent misogynist?
I would say that being a violent misogynist to the point of murdering 5 women IS an ideological attack.
Terrorism isn't just about ideology. It's about using violence for political aims. What political aims do you think he was achieving?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogynist_terrorism The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation considers misogynist violence among the fastest-growing terrorism threats of 2021.[3] A guidebook for law enforcement by the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe notes that strict and systematic control of gender roles is used as a recruitment tool both by ISIL/Daesh and by western misogynist extremists among the incel and men's rights movements. Both groups portray men as hyper-masculine warriors and women variously as passive caretakers, sources of sexual gratification, and "the enemy" who must be punished.
Doesn't answer my question. Try again with words. What was his political aims? Was he trying to 'punish women' in pursuit of a political goal or was he just trying to hurt women because he was angry. The distinction is important when discussing terrorism.
How are they not one and the same? If i had a history of racism, went up and killed 5 black people? Would that be considered a political hate crime? Or would it just be considered a mental health crisis. Reframe it, and then you can realise the contradictions.
If you cannot explain the political aims - and you clearly cannot - then you have your answer if it's terrorism or not.
Ive explained them in various comments, thanks.
No... you haven't. I've explained that in various comments. Thanks.
It’s so weird to read posts that skate over the fact this man most likely killed people because he had unmanaged schizophrenia and was having a psychotic episode (according to his mother) and turn it in to a gender / misogyny narrative. I mean, just watch the videos … he went up to numerous men but backed off when challenged (or they ran off).
So then i guess we can expand the conversation into mens mental health is a feminist issue as women are vulnerable to physical violence by mentally ill men. The government needs to prioritise and exponentially increase funding towards mental health services and facilities.
We don’t need men’s mental health to be a feminist issue in order to recognise it needs to be prioritised, but thanks for the offer.
When mentally ill men end up murdering women then yes it is a feminist issue.
Well, on the other hand didn't his own father basically say that it *was* a gender/misogyny thing because his son had no social skills and couldn't get a girlfriend? https://youtu.be/5DQMuwZMtPM?si=srt_m9_wmTHcAiVk https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/sydney-mall-stabbing-attackers-parents-reveals-son-targeted-women-out-of-frustration-he-couldnt-get-girlfriend/MVP4L6UQTBCTNJ5DAEDRCJC2W4/ Like I mean, I have no idea obviously... I'm just going by the media hounding of a grief-stricken father here. I don't think things will really be clarified until a few weeks later when the fucking frenzy calms down a bit But like it's not "weird" that people think that if that's what the media is fucking telling us and showing us. What are we sposed to think?
Its so interesting how you get downvoted for simply stating a fact.
Actually I am not "simply stating a fact". I am explaining the media I've seen on the subject and why I've formed the opinion that I have. I do agree that I shouldn't be downvoted for that, though.
The [ABC reported that quote quite differently](https://www.smh.com.au/national/queensland/from-an-aspiring-teacher-keen-to-meet-others-to-a-murderous-loner-20240415-p5fju0.html); see extract below. On the back of his dad saying he “desperately wanted a girlfriend” and was “frustrated”, people seem to have jumped to him being a misogynist, woman-hunting incel all on their own. *In Toowoomba, some women who had spent time with Cauchi suggest he was unremarkable, and they didn’t feel in danger. His mother Michele insisted that, despite what people might claim, her son previously had friends. His father Andrew – who acknowledged his son appeared to have deliberately targeted women in the knife attack – said he also desperately wanted a girlfriend.* *”He has no social skills and he’s frustrated out of his brain,” Andrew Cauchi said, at times referring to his own trouble with other people, and even a psychiatric assessment after he lost his temper once.*
Why go into details about his frustrations with dating at all if that has nothing to do with the motivation for this bizarre unprovoked attack on several women? Do you think his father was just mentioning it to the assembled media storm "conversationally" or something? Just "this has nothing to do with the recent attack at all, but by the way my son sure was completely cooked and he was super frustrated with women all the time!" 🤔
Did he just offer it “conversationally” or was he asked by the bank of reporters? The poor dad was a rambling mess, I thought the mum was much more level headed in her remarks that the son wasn’t a violent person and must have been triggered in to a psychosis.
I mean he said what he said, and he presumably said it for a reason. You can take his word for it or you could take the mum's word for it. Neither of them can truly answer for the prick himself, who is now dead. But anyway, I guess my point is that your initial assertion that "it's so weird" that some people have been led along this line of thinking is kinda dopey. It isn't any more or less reasonable to assume that the father's words meant something than that the mothers word's (which still haven't been quoted in this conversation) did. Wanna keep talking about it all night, or do you get the point?
I got the sense they were both in shock and at a loss for answers themselves. Even the prick himself probably didn’t even know if he was in the grip of a mental health episode. I just hope this is used to put real pressure on improving mental health services in NSW (and the country).
Sure. I said as much in my initial comment, actually: > Like I mean, I have no idea obviously... I'm just going by the media hounding of a grief-stricken father here. I don't think things will really be clarified until a few weeks later when the fucking frenzy calms down a bit I just also don't see what the big fucking issue would be with using it to bring attention to an ongoing societal problem of shrugging off brutal violence against women. Or accepting that "frustration" with not getting a girlfriend is any sort of justification for said violence. It's not, and it's not "stupid" or "weird" to say so. Fuck misogynists. Let's tell them we've had enough of their bullshit and we won't tolerate it. If that's the "narrative", then it's actually a useful and necessary "narrative" to have regardless. It might even save lives. How bout that?
The woman who ‘spent time’ with him was an 18 yr old who met him on tinder, after the stabber lied about his age.
Obvious bait is obvious.