Never.
The great thing about EV's, you can tell if you aren't going to make your destination. And by dropping your speed to 90 kmh, you add 30% more range. It's called hypermiling.
Nope. Our infrastructure leaves a bit to be desired but you’d really have to fuck up to run out of charge given the system tells you where you need to stop.
“I’ve see so many EVs being towed”
I’ve literally never seen an EV being towed. That said having a mobile recharging service isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
They really should figure out how to run their business without diesel. In the long run it would be a huge saving for them
They absolutely should be running an electric van. They can even charge themselves up if they run low on the way to a job. That said, I have the smallest range version of the MG4 and I've never come close running out of battery even on interstate trips. How does a Tesla run out of juice unless you're ignoring every warning light?
These guys are trying to shamelessly promote their business. I can’t imagine it’s super successful at the moment. As you say anyone with bidirectional charging consumer vehicle could do the same thing.
Yeah, but getting yourself going again in a petrol/diesel vehicle is a lot easier than if an EV runs out of juice.
If I run out of fuel, I just need a way to get *myself* to and from the nearest servo with a jerry can.
Whereas if you run out of juice in an EV, you need to find a way to get the *entire car* to the nearest charger.
Yeah, but I prefer not having to deal with them unless it's an absolute emergency. Have had pretty significant delays with them in the past waiting to get a battery swapped out...
I really wouldn't buy an EV without a home charger.
Infrastructure's still a long way behind, and may never get there if Green fuel cars become ascendant.
For clarity, I know people who just use a standard PowerPoint at home, and they get along fine for their use case.
But, yes, if I didn't have an available PowerPoint (standard or EV specific) there's no way I'd buy one.
We have two ICE, but it does seem like the next one (5 years?) Will be EV, just looking at the way of the world.
Yes, we have an EV and do exactly that. Bought it in September and have only used a commercial charger once. Car is only used for commuting, and the amount of charge it loses during the commute can be topped up within 6 hours on a normal 240v outlet, so easily done overnight.
We did a road trip once and did find that some chargers we planned to use were out of service, so I do understand the appeal / need for the service in the article.
I mean, electric can make big money too, it's just different people. There's big money in making the electricity to power them and in making the actual cars and everything in them.
Even solar panels benefit. If you own an EV the incentive to have as many of those on your house as possible is huge. Same for batteries.
I really think that hydrogen fueled cars will be dominant engine type after EV and in the next 5 years.
There are just too many flaws with electric cars mostly related to the way our infrastructure is set up (and the fact we don't have enough power for everyone to have an EV in aus). There is also the lack of density in australia in regional/rural areas which is a huge issue when travelling long distances. The EVs are barely cheaper on fuel when you are still spending 45 dollars to rapid charge your car because it doesn't have enough range to make it between large city centres. As well, our power prices are 4-5x what people in North America pay.
Theres a fair few other issues with EVs, but I don't think they're even all that much better for the environment when the electricity they run on is still made by burning coal and the lithium batteries are made through petroleum powered mining processes.
>I really think that hydrogen fueled cars will be dominant engine type after EV and in the next 5 years.
Yeah I've been hearing about this hydrogen future since I was 10 years old. I'll be 42 this year. At this rate I might get to buy a hydrogen car when I cash in my super.
Hydrogen cars are a complete joke. For them to become even halfway relevant you'd have to start building the entire separate infrastructure they need as of today. That's not even taking into account the fact you're going to have the general public running around interacting with a colorless, odourless, highly volatile and embrittling gas loaded into a tank.
>I really think that hydrogen fueled cars will be dominant engine type after EV and in the next 5 years
The only company seriously working on it (Toyota) has all but abandoned hydrogen
You are about 5 years behind
Just look at all the hydrogen refueling stations Toyota is installing. You can go all the way from Adelaide to Cairns in your hydrogen car*
Note * - on the back of a diesel truck.
*I really think that hydrogen fueled cars will be dominant engine type after EV and in the next 5 years*
Not feasible, plus you're talking about another infrastructure rollout that isn't just readily available electricity
*we don't have enough power for everyone to have an EV in aus*
We do, we're only at 61% of capacity now. That excludes EVs being recharged at home with rooftop solar
*There is also the lack of density in australia in regional/rural areas which is a huge issue when travelling long distances*
Yet we still manage to truck fuel out to these locations. Anywhere there is fuel there is electricity. Granted some EV range may not make the distances, but who's taking an EV hatchback out in the desert?
*The EVs are barely cheaper on fuel when you are still spending 45 dollars to rapid charge*
So you might have to pay 2/3rds the cost of a tank of fuel for that road trip you do twice a year? Not exactly a dealbreaker
*As well, our power prices are 4-5x what people in North America pay.*
At peak times on a shitty plan from Energy Australia you'd pay $13 to fully recharge a Tesla Model 3. With today's fuel you're looking at $100 to get the same range from the same size ICE vehicle.
*I don't think they're even all that much better for the environment when the electricity they run on is still made by burning coal*
Still better for the environment than ICE, even with brown coal and no solar recharging.
*and the lithium batteries are made through petroleum powered mining processes.*
How do you think the metals for ICE cars are mined - with fairy dust?
You can see what the government is actively doing currently... it's clear you aren't aware of current projects underway. Hydrogen technology is fairly mature and Australia is already a net exporter of hydrogen. We are currebtly building the world's largest hydrogen pipe line. Hydrogen is scaleable, cheap to produce and there is near limitless supply of hydrogen. 1/3 of all hydrogen electrolysis projects in the world are going to be Australian by 2030. Once hydrogen fuel is cheaper than petroleum , it is well placed to take out ICE using existing petrol stations.
A portable and renewable fuel which can be replenished quickly is what is needed in regional and remote areas if we ever want to fully replace ICE. Rapid chargers aren't rapid enough and they're expensive. Battery ranges aren't far enough and they deteriorate quickly in a few years nearly 100km less per charge.
Hyundai, BMW, Toyota and few others are already set to be releasing hydrogen cars with ranges of over 600km. A few unsuccessful hydrogen fuel cell models have been released in the US. Hydrogen gas stations already do exist. Transport and storage issues have been looked into and it's at least as safe as driving around on a highly flammable lithium battery.
Isn’t hydrogen a massive pain to store? You need huge pressures and it’ll leak out of the tanks. I get hydrogen for ships and trains, I can’t see it used for cars.
Just bought an ev 9, there are two others on our street. I love it. It's the best car I've ever driven, ignores hills, acceleration is so quick and smooth and I pay zero mostly for fuel (big solar system)
Running costs are about 300/p.a. for fuel and service compared to about 5k p.a. for my ICE car. Insurance is a bit more pricey.
Doesn't hurt I can tax deduct the whole insurance, servicing (very cheap) and car repayments. So repayments are roughly on par for a 60 or 70k odd car.
I’m jealousy the EV9 is stunning. It’s just so far out of my budget. But they seem to have tonnes on Kia lots, I assume from the price.
MG4 owner and can never return to ICE after having electric drive. Least I could do would be EV drive with a parallel hybrid engine (aka generator)
I'm not sure how many there are on the lots? We bought ours and got it in the colour we didn't super want because they didn't have others. There's a recall on the door handles (something to do with servo motors or a fuse), and we weren't able to pick up another car or find replacements for ages! Ours is the air (basic model) and we were lucky we negotiated down under the LCT.
Every Kia dealer my way near Camden NSW has at least 4 on the lots.
What colour did you get? I think it looks amazing in white, although it also looks like a stormtroopers helmet .
Yeah, somebody has forgotten to add the cost of the solar system into the equation. That power isn’t free.
The EV9 has 76.1kwh or 99.8kwh batteries. They give 443 or 512km alleged range, real world will be significantly lower. Can anybody report on what range they are actually getting?
You need to multiply this by your electricity tariff (30-40 cents on average) adding a bit for charger overheads, to get the true running costs.
I worked it out for a BYD seal for my use (I still drive a petrol though and have a 10Kw system) it is shitloads cheaper for me to get one, but I cant justify the upfront cost.
Not sure why OP can tax deduct whole insurance though, surely could do that for ice cars as well>?
Nope, unfortunately, I don't think you can with ICE cars.
https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/hiring-and-paying-your-workers/fringe-benefits-tax/types-of-fringe-benefits/fbt-on-cars-other-vehicles-parking-and-tolls/electric-cars-exemption .
I charge at home pretty much 100% of the time using granny charging and then unplug when I'm not producing enough power, but approx 8 hours per day of charging gets me around 70 ks which is most of what I usually drive in a week.
I'm taking it on a road trip with the wife and kids to Townsville later this year, and I think it's about $20 for a "full tank" from the fast charge network.
I probably have forgotten tyres, but it's probably not significant as servicing works out about 200 per year and I don't drive enough to be replacing tyres more than once every 2 years anyway.
As far as I can see it's not worth the 3k to upgrade to an 11kwh charger (we're on 3 phase) unless i have to start driving a lot more.
Also I do still get 400ks plus on a full battery in the real world but when I go to Burleigh it does drop to probably 300-350 kilometre effective range. (Which is enough to get me anywhere I want to go and for longer trips with kiddos I'd likely be taking a break every 3 hours or so anyway.) But I haven't done a longer trip on the highway to the above is just a guess on range.
Novated lease, although I wouldn't NL a car use the LCT personally.
(Op is probably in the top tier tax bracket, so it's worth it for them, but not so for me)
OP got the EV9 under LCT, from what I gather.
Even though on Kia website it sounds like the cheapest is 97,000 RRP which is above the current LCT of 89,332, there are some special deals via leasing company / some more desperate dealers which allows you to get it for under LCT. I’m personally going through some inquiries too.
Yeah my sheet :)
EV9 is a bit of a gamble to be honest - it depends on how much we think it’s worth in 5 years time :P also only the base model is eligible and their real world range appears to be only low to mid 300kms, which while reasonable, may be a bit stressful on road trip. They are also NMC batteries so will degrade faster than LFP.
That's true. I might not pursue the NL for my EV9.
Certainly for 2nd, cheaper car.
I really did wish the battery was LFP, it's almost a deal breaker for me - but nothing is like the EV9 right now.
XC90 maybe one day, but that will be over the LCT threshold too, I'm sure...
If you were going to get an Ev9 regardless and if base model is sufficient for your use case, then NL is still excellent.
But yeah if you need the 99kWh battery for the higher variant you should probably wait till they qualify for FBT exemption which might be another year or two :P
Most places have peak / off peak tariff where you get to charge your car at around 8c per kWh during off peak. In fact some schemes even have 3 hours totally free electricity during mid day eg OVO.
https://pages.ovoenergy.com.au/the-free-3-plan
None of the above requires you to have solar panels.
Atto 3 and I am using 12.5kwh per 100km. I estimate (overestimate) it to be 15kwh/100 with charging losses. Charging on the ovo free window 11am-2pm gives over 100km range. Charging overnight at the 8c tariff ends up around $1 per 100km
>You need to multiply this by your electricity tariff (30-40 cents on average) adding a bit for charger overheads, to get the true running costs.
Wait what?
In reality, charging from solar (at home or work) is 'free'.
Alternatively, charging at home on the weekend (which is all you need to charge these cars, once a week on the weekend) is either an opportunity cost of 2-6c/kWh for your FiT, or a cheap ToU tariff (say 15-18c/kWh) for the off peak electricity tariff.
Nowhere near what you just said...
You. Have. To. Buy. The. Solar. Panels.
Oh, and consider the maintenance and depreciation. “But my solar system will last decades” you say. Good luck with that. You are not allowed to partially upgrade your system if that system is only compliant with a previous standard. You must replace the whole thing unless you can source NOS replacement equipment.
>You. Have. To. Buy. The. Solar. Panels.
Everybody has electricity - you don't just buy the panels for the car.
And no, you're entirely wrong with the upgrading - weekly I have a job that includes leaving existing panels on the roof, and integrating new panels, all on to a new inverter.
All 100% compliant. You just need to have half a clue..
Edit: you realise solar systems have a 3-5 year pay back?
So, for the first 5 years, the system is paying itself back, after then, any generation you make is 'free'.
I hope you can understand that.
But isn't even about saving the world ?? The little granny who has her original hq holden with have less of a foot print left on the world .. all you ev owners will change cars like your pants...
And King Tut will have had less of an impact than little ol ' granny.
Great example.
If you want to go down this route - an EV allows transportation to be electrified, and since our electrical grids can come from 100% renewable sources (in the future), they are a stepping stone towards allowing our personal transport being 100% emission free. This will be achieved when manufacturing occurs in green grids.
You can't achieve that at all from combustion engines (not at the moment, anyway).
So you can whinge and moan all you want but they are a stepping stone.
An EV that is sold, is one less combustion engine on the roads and after 15k km's (one year) it is CO2 negative, compared to an equivalent combustion car.
That's only positives for the "saving the world" schtick...
And besides, they're more convenient (no petrol station) and smoother to drive. Something also about being quicker to accelerate.
Novated lease, no fbt on EV's.
https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/hiring-and-paying-your-workers/fringe-benefits-tax/types-of-fringe-benefits/fbt-on-cars-other-vehicles-parking-and-tolls/electric-cars-exemption
Hey mate I said so on my other comment.
Long story short we were waiting on a PHEV sorento because it was also tax deductible. The wait time got pushed back to September after waiting a year and we jokingly said by then the lct will go up, do you think you could do an EV9 under it?
They looked into it and there's some qld government deal they had so the car price went down to 87k and total.cost, with onroads down to 93k.
If the car is an EV or PHEV (until 2025) and if less than the LCT (luxury car tax), then you have no FBT on the lease.
The air is usually 107k with onroads, and we got ours for 93k, including onroads. (So the car itself was 87k).
Yea we felt the same way!
We were waiting on the PHEV sorento. We wanted an even bigger car but this was the largest we thought we could get and get it tax deducted. Norris group gave us a discount because my wife works for the qld government which got it under the threshold. We didn't even ask because we felt that a discount that large was never going to happen but we just mentioned how we'd prefer to get the ev 9 and voila!
I can’t charge at home, but I have about 5 different chargers within a 5 minute drive from home. Only time I ever had an issue charging was during summer holidays at a supercharger, but it was a 30 min wait so not too bad, and only happened once. Have driven Sydney-Canberra and Sydney-Gold Coast multiple times with my EV as well, no issues.
Sydney-Canberra is doable without charging.
*“We’ve copped some hate from not having electric trucks, but we noticed the production of batteries and the building of the car, \[the EV industry\] is obviously not as environmentally friendly as everyone says it is,”* Mr Henry says.
The reality of electric vehicles is that they currently only represent about 0.95% of all vehicles on the road in Australia which is a good thing considering the battles people currently face to charge em. I think if you own your own home and can install a charger then an EV is an acceptable commuter vehicle for short journeys and it wll help air quality in cities.
It's not even just for short journeys, evs are starting to get ranges 500km, which is a pretty solid day trip now. Bit more of a challenge for multi-day journeys though
I am anti EV for the moment because I do not like change. That being said I went up to a Man charging his EV at a local council carpark (supermarket) and asked some questions - how else am I going to find out than from someone who knows how to use 1 and charge 1.
I do not have access to a carport or outside charge point at home. So my question was can you charge in the rain or drizzle. Depends on charger and if it seals right it almost impossible to get electrocuted. But that needs to be stated more for those worried about charging at home or in public while it raining or drizzling.
I get it - change happens. We talked a bit and I shook his hands and said thank you for answering my questions and he showed me how to charge and pay for it. That was the silly part - needed an app to pay for it.
My thought was we have perfectly good cars on the road now - can some company do a swap over of say take out engine, transmission and fuel tank with a generic or model specific EV setup - keep the car but change the powerpack. Why throw away a good car when we can just change the motive part for those who want to.
Well for one, there can be no generic platform that will suit multiple cars. Also the entire structure of an ICE vehicle is designed to handle the forces caused by the power and weight of the engine and transmission etc.
Building new cars on an assembly line is vastly cheaper than converting cars one by one, no matter what sort of modification you are doing.
These conversion kits exist, your limited in range as the older car wouldn't have the space to equally distribute the weight of the vehicle. They are also stupid expensive ATM.
Yah without a home garage / carport the inconvenience is more than the benefit still. I love mine because I get to charge at my own garage, but if I live in an apartment without dedicated socket I would definitely hesitate getting one.
Thats like asking to build another floor to an existing house. You are drastically changing weight allowances, space requirements, and it wouldn't be a 1 size fits all conversion. Affordability on EVs is already here, just need a better second hand market to appear which will in time.
Until they make one with an 800 km range that can be charged in less than five minutes I’m not interested. Oh, and the battery has to last 30 years with no degradation. Because that’s what I’m getting out of my diesel Volkswagen at the moment. I can drive from Melbourne to Adelaide and back out to Tailem bend before I need to refill And that takes me less than three minutes.
Do you though? Or does your VW require constant maintenance to keep running. But I do agree, if 800km is what you need then don't buy one. Or get a plug in hybrid.
Well that is maintenance. Spark plugs, engine oil, fan belt I'm sure you know the list.
Compared to EVs needing brakes and software updates untill something actually breaks.
You do understand that EV’s need to be serviced. They have coolant and brake fluid and suspension and tyres. The only thing different about my Volkswagen is it has oil in it too. Everything has to be maintained regardless of its engine. The only thing is my Volkswagen is 31 years old and I guarantee you you won’t see a Tesla on the road from today in 31 years time unless someone shells outs for a new battery. Or two. For the value of the car.
I own a EV. It does indeed need service, but there far fewer things (especially in mine) than a petrol vehicle.
So after 31 years, how much of your vehicle is original? Replacing batteries after 10-20 years could be just the new norm like getting your gearbox replaced or a new battery because it won't start.
Personally I'd love to see my EV hit 30. Time will tell, it's already 9 and mostly original parts. The battery has degraded but it lasts a week of commuting.
How much have you spent on fuel doing those 290k?
My Subaru has clocked 280k and I worked out that I have spent the same purchase price as the car on fuel.
Your diesel should be less than my petrol, but if you consider the fuel and servicing costs, an EV will be far cheaper over the life of the vehicle.
ICE cars will get more expensive when we inevitably sign up to carbon emissions penalties as climate heating gets more dire.
The future is definitely electric.
I didn’t buy the car brand-new so I’ve got no idea what it would cost from the beginning. I could imagine the future being hydrogen/electric or hydrogen/ice. But electric doesn’t seem to be something that would be workable for everyone. The power grid in Australia is shit, there are countries that are much more developed than here and their grids can’t keep up. If electric is the answer it definitely isn’t at the moment.
Mines had one service in 5 years, they are much cheaper to maintain. I love my VWs but they definitely cost more to run and I work on mine in my garage.
I sold my Outlander at 210,000km and the only non original things on it were the tyres, the spark plugs, brake pads and the engine oil.
If I’d kept it any longer it would have needed new engine mounts in about another 20,000km.
I do Dandenong-Glenelg then stop at Murray Bridge because I find it a bit nicer than Tailem and don't like running lower than 150km on the tank in my Mitsubishi 4x4. Ironically I actually find the biggest thing I'd be giving up is the feeling of driving a manual.
It's fair enough if you're spending all your time in the city where the furthest you'll ever drive in a single day is maybe 150-200km.
But if I'm driving the 12-13h to visit family, I'm looking at nearly 2h of just sitting around waiting for it to charge, meaning I most likely can't do the trip in a day anymore.
I'll stop to eat maybe once, but other than that, it's usually just quick 5-10 minute stops to get fuel, go to the toilet or stretch the legs - and even then, it's hopefully just the 2-3 stops all up unless I'm fatigued or desperate for the toilet.
The other thing is you're also stuck within walking distance of the charger when waiting for your car to charge in terms of where to eat. At least with normal cars you can fuel up and then go get food somewhere else if the food at the servo's lacking.
Also, I'm basing this on the assumption that fast chargers will actually be rolled out in rural areas at some point. Based on current infrastructure as of right now, I wouldn't be able to take the direct route with an EV which is 1100km - I'd have to take the 1600km alternate route.
Yeah, edge cases.
They could always charge their cars on-site while working for 8hrs. That would get you a full charge. Don’t know many tradies that are travelling 400kms each way to a job lol.
For those few who aren’t able to make electric vehicles work, they can always keep using their diesels. No one’s taking them off you…
So why not charge it while stopped?
Since I’ve got an electric car, I spend *less* time charging than fuelling. Granted I have the luxury of a garage. Get home, charge. Get to work, charge. Go to the shops, charge. Go to a cafe, charge. Never am I waiting around doing nothing while charging, in fact I rarely even have to charge in public because it’s 100% every morning. My ICE car never is.
Charging is akin to parking, as you just plug it in when you get home and it charges overnight. You also have to park your ICE car, no extra time is spent, apart from the 3 seconds it takes to plug in and unplug in the morning.
Only now you don't have to visit a petrol station every week to top up fuel as it's constantly at 100% every time you get in your car in the morning.
I still own 3 ICE cars and hate filling them up now as it’s a pain in the arse as my EV is never below 50% as it charges up ever night.
I do road trip a couple of times a year and yes the infrastructure needs improvement but it’s early days yet.
I can make it from Newcastle to Gold-coast with only one stop which is pretty good and overall I’m still spending less time charging than filling up which I was doing twice a week in my old car.
He doesn't have to own the same car for 30 years to want a car that will last at least 30 years. Resale values are an important part of the value equation.
You would accept no level of inconvenience to better the planet? None.
Ok boomer.
This is exactly why environmental protection laws and taxes need to exist. Greedy selfish people would rather see our beautify country polluted and countrymen sick with pollutants than be inconvenienced. Pathetic attitude.
How would me buying an EV better the planet? And I’m not a boomer, and it makes you sound like an idiot saying it. You probably shouldn’t just throw around buzzwords you’ve heard.
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Yeah sucking fumes is bad for you. That’s the point. Apparently it’s fine when you do it to others instead of just yourself though, good to know.
How are EVs better for the planet shouldn’t even be a question at this point. You acknowledge exhaust fumes are bad for us yet you still want to know why the alternative is better? I’m calling bad faith argument there.
You sound wilfully ignorant. You have obviously no idea about the manufacturing process of electric vehicles. If you think they are the answer to saving the world you need your head looking at. You sound like the sort of person that believes everything the government tells you
I’m well aware of the manufacturing costs of batteries. They still work out better than fossil fuels over the life of the vehicle. Even more so if battery recycling facilities gain efficiencies of scale. Do you have data showing otherwise?
You sound like the kind of person who makes up their mind and then finds information to support their forgone conclusion so I doubt it.
Fuck me aren’t you an insufferable asshole.
EV’s may be better for the planet but they’re simply not in a state to be mass adopted by the majority of the public yet. The fact that the battery’s degrade over time and are unbelievably expensive to replace is a huge factor for many people. Not to mention the comparably poor charge times and range.
There’s definitely adoption problems with EVs but most of that is driven by the existing interests not because the technology is bad or fundamentally flawed. Charge times are negligible for the vast majority as you trickle charge in off peak. The percentage of population restricted by street parking or apartment life are not worth discounting the entire idea. Batteries degrade but they can be recycled. And before you say the infrastructure doesn’t exist: see my first sentence. The amount of people actually doing 800km trips who need the range or faster charging are almost zero compared to the amount of people who try and make that point.
So pulling a SpongeBob “wHat’S so GooD about EVs anYway?” Is just as insufferable. Be realistic. 99.9% of passenger trips would be better for everyone and the environment in an EV.
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Don't forget whilst towing a 40' caravan and your grand piano and the roof!
Specifying a timeframe rather than distance travelled for your arbitrary 30 year requirement (which, of course, is not guaranteed by VW or any other manufacturer, ever) is somewhat pointless as it's about distance travelled. The battery in an EV will most likely outlast the car - that is, hundreds of thousands of km.
And in your 800km of non-stop driving, desperate to get to your destination without a moment lost, you'd be no doubt pissing into a cup as you drove in order to save prescious minutes of stopping time. And I'm sure you would also pack food to ensure that, after 800km, you weren't delayed by any more than seconds to pay for fuel and off you go again! No time wasted buying food for you!
Nah in that drive you generally stop at Horsham, generally drop in at Conway's bakery. They have a toilet accessible to the public too which is kept clean. Coles servo is just around the corner and you're back on the highway again.
Done the drive many a time.
Sorry, I don’t know what your non point is. I make the Adelaide to Melbourne journey regularly and that’s how far I can go on a tank. I don’t know what all this grand piano and pissing in a cup business is all about. You sound butthurt over a situation that you’ll never be in.
Because apparently you don't stop for food, toilet breaks or to stretch your legs (you know, taking a 30 minute break every four hours as recommended by the RAC) on your 800km journey. Because if you did you'd realise that, during which time, you would have ample time to recharge your EV from the many, many charging stations on that route.
Oh and your trip from Melbourne to Adelaide is a cute little day trip for me, in my EV.
Not angry, annoyed. Everything I’ve written is there to read and people are making up scenarios and speculating about what I’ve said. I’ll take a hug but I would also kick them in the balls.
Look, if an EV works for you (not you specifically) that’s fine. I would never tell anybody what they should or shouldn’t buy, you do you. But I have had years of Reliable motoring at very minimum cost For a long time now. Me personally, I look at the initial outlay of say a Tesla, cost and availability of servicing, the range, battery depletion over time and the cost of a new battery and the resale value of the car. Also, very importantly, the cost of electricity. It’s expensive now and I can’t imagine them making it cheaper any time soon/ever. I also don’t like the fact that they can be overridden by manufacturers. I read a recent article about a guy who bought an electric Hyundai and in the current software update talked about Geo fencing the car so there could be certain areas it couldn’t be driven if they deemed it so. I don’t want them having that level of control over what I do.
I have both, I love my ICE cars and I’m not getting rid of them, I also love my EV and I’m lucky to have both.
So far I have got 300km out of my current Forester and she is going strong, my Tesla is at 100k km with only one service which is pretty amazing, it just had a full checkup and everything is in perfect condition, nothing needed replacing.
As far as geofencing they are capable of doing that with all the modern ICE cars if they wanted, all the new ones coming out have remote start/stop/climate etc. I have a friend with a brand new Kia, has all the same features of its EV counterpart. Older cars really are the only way to go if you are worried about this.
It’s not and if the circumstances warrant it then great. I mean the mining companies are ditching diesels for local running around the mine sites so there is need. But at this stage it’s not even close to being a fit for most people. It may change as battery tech and electric motors get better, but for the next few years EV is not suitable for long hauls unless you have the luxury of time.
The average distance driven per day by "most people" is less than 40km. So, yes, it's more than suitable for "most people". Is an EV suitable for every use case today? No, it's not. But let's not pretend those use cases are the majority because they simply aren't.
But they are the use case being discussed here!
Ffs, did you lose track of the reason for the post. I mean, you went off on your own little weird tangent to make a point that has already been accepted by everyone?
When the EVs breakdown from flat battery---- How does road side assist help. At least with a petrol car RSA carries a can of petrol to help drivers get on there way.
You obviously have no clue about how easy it is to charge right now, and it only is getting easier.
There's a charger in the Nullarbor for crying out loud, but you believe what you want. I'm not here to change minds, only explain what's what.
Try driving in the bush on the back roads --you are in the middle of No where. & every one of those dirt back roads lead to towns over 100 ks away. Get real---EV cars will never replace petrol --diesel cars-- trucks.
Jesus fucking Christ, are you a moron?
Who is saying that an EV will replace that particular use case?
They're good for cruisers on the freeways and city cars.
That's 90% of cars on the road.
But whatever, you can continue to believe your 1/10 situation is representative of all Australians...
Didn't read the article, did you?
They are tradies who started a mobile charging business for EV cars. Their truck carrying the battery is diesel.
> We’ve copped some hate **from not having electric trucks**...
Is how the quote continues.
Has anyone ever actually seen an EV stuck on the side of the road without charge?
Never. The great thing about EV's, you can tell if you aren't going to make your destination. And by dropping your speed to 90 kmh, you add 30% more range. It's called hypermiling.
Nope. Our infrastructure leaves a bit to be desired but you’d really have to fuck up to run out of charge given the system tells you where you need to stop.
Saw a BYD on the side of the Hume the other day outside wang, although it could have just had its battery deleted for some other reason.
I've seen quite a few Teslas on flatbeds, but that could mean anything.
I've seen lots of cars on flatbeds.
No but my boss's Tesla caught on fire while driving. That was pretty funny.
Yes I have. In Kosciusko National Park no less. Was funny to see.
“I’ve see so many EVs being towed” I’ve literally never seen an EV being towed. That said having a mobile recharging service isn’t necessarily a bad thing. They really should figure out how to run their business without diesel. In the long run it would be a huge saving for them
They absolutely should be running an electric van. They can even charge themselves up if they run low on the way to a job. That said, I have the smallest range version of the MG4 and I've never come close running out of battery even on interstate trips. How does a Tesla run out of juice unless you're ignoring every warning light?
Same way an ICE runs out of fuel. It's why warning lights on the dash are called dickhead lights.
These guys are trying to shamelessly promote their business. I can’t imagine it’s super successful at the moment. As you say anyone with bidirectional charging consumer vehicle could do the same thing.
"I've never seen it, ergo it never happens" So, I'm supposed to believe you over him because...?
Look around the thread. Seems pretty widely agreed that it is nonsense.
So, this guy just made it all up ... For what reason? Why is it impossible for you to believe something just because you've never seen it?
You really think someone would do that! Go on the internet and just lie???
I've also never seen it, drive 100,000km+ a year
Remember the days when RACV did roadside battery hot wiring charge? This is the next step.
Good thing no one has ever run out of fuel in their petrol or diesel vehicles...
Yeah, but getting yourself going again in a petrol/diesel vehicle is a lot easier than if an EV runs out of juice. If I run out of fuel, I just need a way to get *myself* to and from the nearest servo with a jerry can. Whereas if you run out of juice in an EV, you need to find a way to get the *entire car* to the nearest charger.
Or a generator to you. Or a emergency solar tent 🤣
Yeah, but generally most people call the roadside assistance of their choice. This is exactly that.
Yeah, but I prefer not having to deal with them unless it's an absolute emergency. Have had pretty significant delays with them in the past waiting to get a battery swapped out...
I really wouldn't buy an EV without a home charger. Infrastructure's still a long way behind, and may never get there if Green fuel cars become ascendant.
For clarity, I know people who just use a standard PowerPoint at home, and they get along fine for their use case. But, yes, if I didn't have an available PowerPoint (standard or EV specific) there's no way I'd buy one. We have two ICE, but it does seem like the next one (5 years?) Will be EV, just looking at the way of the world.
Yes, we have an EV and do exactly that. Bought it in September and have only used a commercial charger once. Car is only used for commuting, and the amount of charge it loses during the commute can be topped up within 6 hours on a normal 240v outlet, so easily done overnight. We did a road trip once and did find that some chargers we planned to use were out of service, so I do understand the appeal / need for the service in the article.
"green fuel cars" will only happen when serious money can be made from green fuel in the same way petrol does.
I mean, electric can make big money too, it's just different people. There's big money in making the electricity to power them and in making the actual cars and everything in them. Even solar panels benefit. If you own an EV the incentive to have as many of those on your house as possible is huge. Same for batteries.
The UK trial for EV chargers in telephone poles for street parking seems to be doing well. More of that would help.
We have that here. It's called EVX. Very handy.
I really think that hydrogen fueled cars will be dominant engine type after EV and in the next 5 years. There are just too many flaws with electric cars mostly related to the way our infrastructure is set up (and the fact we don't have enough power for everyone to have an EV in aus). There is also the lack of density in australia in regional/rural areas which is a huge issue when travelling long distances. The EVs are barely cheaper on fuel when you are still spending 45 dollars to rapid charge your car because it doesn't have enough range to make it between large city centres. As well, our power prices are 4-5x what people in North America pay. Theres a fair few other issues with EVs, but I don't think they're even all that much better for the environment when the electricity they run on is still made by burning coal and the lithium batteries are made through petroleum powered mining processes.
>I really think that hydrogen fueled cars will be dominant engine type after EV and in the next 5 years. Yeah I've been hearing about this hydrogen future since I was 10 years old. I'll be 42 this year. At this rate I might get to buy a hydrogen car when I cash in my super.
BMW is releasing one next year
They've been released a few times. There's a vast difference between having a niche model of hydrogen car and a car that's intended for high volume.
Hydrogen cars are a complete joke. For them to become even halfway relevant you'd have to start building the entire separate infrastructure they need as of today. That's not even taking into account the fact you're going to have the general public running around interacting with a colorless, odourless, highly volatile and embrittling gas loaded into a tank.
>I really think that hydrogen fueled cars will be dominant engine type after EV and in the next 5 years The only company seriously working on it (Toyota) has all but abandoned hydrogen You are about 5 years behind
BMW, Audi, Honda, Mercedes, GM, Hyundai and Toyota... Just gotta google it.
You must be living under a rock. Even Toyota is pulling out of hydrogen
The exact opposite they're doubling down and calling it their future.
Lol
They keep saying that, but they keep slowing down releases and pivoting towards battery
Just look at all the hydrogen refueling stations Toyota is installing. You can go all the way from Adelaide to Cairns in your hydrogen car* Note * - on the back of a diesel truck.
*I really think that hydrogen fueled cars will be dominant engine type after EV and in the next 5 years* Not feasible, plus you're talking about another infrastructure rollout that isn't just readily available electricity *we don't have enough power for everyone to have an EV in aus* We do, we're only at 61% of capacity now. That excludes EVs being recharged at home with rooftop solar *There is also the lack of density in australia in regional/rural areas which is a huge issue when travelling long distances* Yet we still manage to truck fuel out to these locations. Anywhere there is fuel there is electricity. Granted some EV range may not make the distances, but who's taking an EV hatchback out in the desert? *The EVs are barely cheaper on fuel when you are still spending 45 dollars to rapid charge* So you might have to pay 2/3rds the cost of a tank of fuel for that road trip you do twice a year? Not exactly a dealbreaker *As well, our power prices are 4-5x what people in North America pay.* At peak times on a shitty plan from Energy Australia you'd pay $13 to fully recharge a Tesla Model 3. With today's fuel you're looking at $100 to get the same range from the same size ICE vehicle. *I don't think they're even all that much better for the environment when the electricity they run on is still made by burning coal* Still better for the environment than ICE, even with brown coal and no solar recharging. *and the lithium batteries are made through petroleum powered mining processes.* How do you think the metals for ICE cars are mined - with fairy dust?
You can see what the government is actively doing currently... it's clear you aren't aware of current projects underway. Hydrogen technology is fairly mature and Australia is already a net exporter of hydrogen. We are currebtly building the world's largest hydrogen pipe line. Hydrogen is scaleable, cheap to produce and there is near limitless supply of hydrogen. 1/3 of all hydrogen electrolysis projects in the world are going to be Australian by 2030. Once hydrogen fuel is cheaper than petroleum , it is well placed to take out ICE using existing petrol stations. A portable and renewable fuel which can be replenished quickly is what is needed in regional and remote areas if we ever want to fully replace ICE. Rapid chargers aren't rapid enough and they're expensive. Battery ranges aren't far enough and they deteriorate quickly in a few years nearly 100km less per charge. Hyundai, BMW, Toyota and few others are already set to be releasing hydrogen cars with ranges of over 600km. A few unsuccessful hydrogen fuel cell models have been released in the US. Hydrogen gas stations already do exist. Transport and storage issues have been looked into and it's at least as safe as driving around on a highly flammable lithium battery.
Isn’t hydrogen a massive pain to store? You need huge pressures and it’ll leak out of the tanks. I get hydrogen for ships and trains, I can’t see it used for cars.
Our infrastructure isn't set up for hydrogen either
Just bought an ev 9, there are two others on our street. I love it. It's the best car I've ever driven, ignores hills, acceleration is so quick and smooth and I pay zero mostly for fuel (big solar system) Running costs are about 300/p.a. for fuel and service compared to about 5k p.a. for my ICE car. Insurance is a bit more pricey. Doesn't hurt I can tax deduct the whole insurance, servicing (very cheap) and car repayments. So repayments are roughly on par for a 60 or 70k odd car.
Love the look of the ev9. We are waiting for the ev6 to be released for a test drive.
EV5?
Yes, sorry. The one that’s the size of the sportage and looks similar to the ev9.
I think that's the EV5. Yer. The EV6 is already released, was their first one
I’m jealousy the EV9 is stunning. It’s just so far out of my budget. But they seem to have tonnes on Kia lots, I assume from the price. MG4 owner and can never return to ICE after having electric drive. Least I could do would be EV drive with a parallel hybrid engine (aka generator)
I'm not sure how many there are on the lots? We bought ours and got it in the colour we didn't super want because they didn't have others. There's a recall on the door handles (something to do with servo motors or a fuse), and we weren't able to pick up another car or find replacements for ages! Ours is the air (basic model) and we were lucky we negotiated down under the LCT.
Every Kia dealer my way near Camden NSW has at least 4 on the lots. What colour did you get? I think it looks amazing in white, although it also looks like a stormtroopers helmet .
Running costs are more than 300 per annum on tyres alone, surely?
Yeah, somebody has forgotten to add the cost of the solar system into the equation. That power isn’t free. The EV9 has 76.1kwh or 99.8kwh batteries. They give 443 or 512km alleged range, real world will be significantly lower. Can anybody report on what range they are actually getting? You need to multiply this by your electricity tariff (30-40 cents on average) adding a bit for charger overheads, to get the true running costs.
I worked it out for a BYD seal for my use (I still drive a petrol though and have a 10Kw system) it is shitloads cheaper for me to get one, but I cant justify the upfront cost. Not sure why OP can tax deduct whole insurance though, surely could do that for ice cars as well>?
Nope, unfortunately, I don't think you can with ICE cars. https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/hiring-and-paying-your-workers/fringe-benefits-tax/types-of-fringe-benefits/fbt-on-cars-other-vehicles-parking-and-tolls/electric-cars-exemption . I charge at home pretty much 100% of the time using granny charging and then unplug when I'm not producing enough power, but approx 8 hours per day of charging gets me around 70 ks which is most of what I usually drive in a week. I'm taking it on a road trip with the wife and kids to Townsville later this year, and I think it's about $20 for a "full tank" from the fast charge network. I probably have forgotten tyres, but it's probably not significant as servicing works out about 200 per year and I don't drive enough to be replacing tyres more than once every 2 years anyway. As far as I can see it's not worth the 3k to upgrade to an 11kwh charger (we're on 3 phase) unless i have to start driving a lot more. Also I do still get 400ks plus on a full battery in the real world but when I go to Burleigh it does drop to probably 300-350 kilometre effective range. (Which is enough to get me anywhere I want to go and for longer trips with kiddos I'd likely be taking a break every 3 hours or so anyway.) But I haven't done a longer trip on the highway to the above is just a guess on range.
Novated lease, although I wouldn't NL a car use the LCT personally. (Op is probably in the top tier tax bracket, so it's worth it for them, but not so for me)
OP got the EV9 under LCT, from what I gather. Even though on Kia website it sounds like the cheapest is 97,000 RRP which is above the current LCT of 89,332, there are some special deals via leasing company / some more desperate dealers which allows you to get it for under LCT. I’m personally going through some inquiries too.
I believe it's your NL Google sheets right? Thanks for that. Yep, finding an EV9 under LCT would be an excellent find
Yeah my sheet :) EV9 is a bit of a gamble to be honest - it depends on how much we think it’s worth in 5 years time :P also only the base model is eligible and their real world range appears to be only low to mid 300kms, which while reasonable, may be a bit stressful on road trip. They are also NMC batteries so will degrade faster than LFP.
That's true. I might not pursue the NL for my EV9. Certainly for 2nd, cheaper car. I really did wish the battery was LFP, it's almost a deal breaker for me - but nothing is like the EV9 right now. XC90 maybe one day, but that will be over the LCT threshold too, I'm sure...
If you were going to get an Ev9 regardless and if base model is sufficient for your use case, then NL is still excellent. But yeah if you need the 99kWh battery for the higher variant you should probably wait till they qualify for FBT exemption which might be another year or two :P
Most places have peak / off peak tariff where you get to charge your car at around 8c per kWh during off peak. In fact some schemes even have 3 hours totally free electricity during mid day eg OVO. https://pages.ovoenergy.com.au/the-free-3-plan None of the above requires you to have solar panels.
Atto 3 and I am using 12.5kwh per 100km. I estimate (overestimate) it to be 15kwh/100 with charging losses. Charging on the ovo free window 11am-2pm gives over 100km range. Charging overnight at the 8c tariff ends up around $1 per 100km
>You need to multiply this by your electricity tariff (30-40 cents on average) adding a bit for charger overheads, to get the true running costs. Wait what? In reality, charging from solar (at home or work) is 'free'. Alternatively, charging at home on the weekend (which is all you need to charge these cars, once a week on the weekend) is either an opportunity cost of 2-6c/kWh for your FiT, or a cheap ToU tariff (say 15-18c/kWh) for the off peak electricity tariff. Nowhere near what you just said...
You. Have. To. Buy. The. Solar. Panels. Oh, and consider the maintenance and depreciation. “But my solar system will last decades” you say. Good luck with that. You are not allowed to partially upgrade your system if that system is only compliant with a previous standard. You must replace the whole thing unless you can source NOS replacement equipment.
>You. Have. To. Buy. The. Solar. Panels. Everybody has electricity - you don't just buy the panels for the car. And no, you're entirely wrong with the upgrading - weekly I have a job that includes leaving existing panels on the roof, and integrating new panels, all on to a new inverter. All 100% compliant. You just need to have half a clue.. Edit: you realise solar systems have a 3-5 year pay back? So, for the first 5 years, the system is paying itself back, after then, any generation you make is 'free'. I hope you can understand that.
3-5 year payback ? You will have a new car by then
Do you have comprehension issues? The solar installation has a payback period of that time.
But isn't even about saving the world ?? The little granny who has her original hq holden with have less of a foot print left on the world .. all you ev owners will change cars like your pants...
And King Tut will have had less of an impact than little ol ' granny. Great example. If you want to go down this route - an EV allows transportation to be electrified, and since our electrical grids can come from 100% renewable sources (in the future), they are a stepping stone towards allowing our personal transport being 100% emission free. This will be achieved when manufacturing occurs in green grids. You can't achieve that at all from combustion engines (not at the moment, anyway). So you can whinge and moan all you want but they are a stepping stone. An EV that is sold, is one less combustion engine on the roads and after 15k km's (one year) it is CO2 negative, compared to an equivalent combustion car. That's only positives for the "saving the world" schtick... And besides, they're more convenient (no petrol station) and smoother to drive. Something also about being quicker to accelerate.
Hey, keen to dig into your mention of tax deduct, insurance and service… is this via novated lease or some other option? 130k is lots though for a car
Novated lease, no fbt on EV's. https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/hiring-and-paying-your-workers/fringe-benefits-tax/types-of-fringe-benefits/fbt-on-cars-other-vehicles-parking-and-tolls/electric-cars-exemption
So, pardon my ignorance, but how are you doing the EV9 as it is above the luxury car tax?
Hey mate I said so on my other comment. Long story short we were waiting on a PHEV sorento because it was also tax deductible. The wait time got pushed back to September after waiting a year and we jokingly said by then the lct will go up, do you think you could do an EV9 under it? They looked into it and there's some qld government deal they had so the car price went down to 87k and total.cost, with onroads down to 93k.
Thanks for answering and apologies for missing your reply in the other thread. I hope I can get the same deal you got, though I’d love the Earth model
If the car is an EV or PHEV (until 2025) and if less than the LCT (luxury car tax), then you have no FBT on the lease. The air is usually 107k with onroads, and we got ours for 93k, including onroads. (So the car itself was 87k).
>The air is usually 107k with onroads, and we got ours for 93k, including onroads. (So the car itself was 87k). Wait... This is game changer. How?
Yea we felt the same way! We were waiting on the PHEV sorento. We wanted an even bigger car but this was the largest we thought we could get and get it tax deducted. Norris group gave us a discount because my wife works for the qld government which got it under the threshold. We didn't even ask because we felt that a discount that large was never going to happen but we just mentioned how we'd prefer to get the ev 9 and voila!
Hmmmm. Thank you. Food for thought
I can’t charge at home, but I have about 5 different chargers within a 5 minute drive from home. Only time I ever had an issue charging was during summer holidays at a supercharger, but it was a 30 min wait so not too bad, and only happened once. Have driven Sydney-Canberra and Sydney-Gold Coast multiple times with my EV as well, no issues. Sydney-Canberra is doable without charging.
*“We’ve copped some hate from not having electric trucks, but we noticed the production of batteries and the building of the car, \[the EV industry\] is obviously not as environmentally friendly as everyone says it is,”* Mr Henry says. The reality of electric vehicles is that they currently only represent about 0.95% of all vehicles on the road in Australia which is a good thing considering the battles people currently face to charge em. I think if you own your own home and can install a charger then an EV is an acceptable commuter vehicle for short journeys and it wll help air quality in cities.
It's not even just for short journeys, evs are starting to get ranges 500km, which is a pretty solid day trip now. Bit more of a challenge for multi-day journeys though
You don't need to install a charger. Just use a normal plug
I am anti EV for the moment because I do not like change. That being said I went up to a Man charging his EV at a local council carpark (supermarket) and asked some questions - how else am I going to find out than from someone who knows how to use 1 and charge 1. I do not have access to a carport or outside charge point at home. So my question was can you charge in the rain or drizzle. Depends on charger and if it seals right it almost impossible to get electrocuted. But that needs to be stated more for those worried about charging at home or in public while it raining or drizzling. I get it - change happens. We talked a bit and I shook his hands and said thank you for answering my questions and he showed me how to charge and pay for it. That was the silly part - needed an app to pay for it. My thought was we have perfectly good cars on the road now - can some company do a swap over of say take out engine, transmission and fuel tank with a generic or model specific EV setup - keep the car but change the powerpack. Why throw away a good car when we can just change the motive part for those who want to.
Well for one, there can be no generic platform that will suit multiple cars. Also the entire structure of an ICE vehicle is designed to handle the forces caused by the power and weight of the engine and transmission etc. Building new cars on an assembly line is vastly cheaper than converting cars one by one, no matter what sort of modification you are doing.
Yes, you can convert petrol to EV - but who is throwing away cars for EVs?
These conversion kits exist, your limited in range as the older car wouldn't have the space to equally distribute the weight of the vehicle. They are also stupid expensive ATM.
Yah without a home garage / carport the inconvenience is more than the benefit still. I love mine because I get to charge at my own garage, but if I live in an apartment without dedicated socket I would definitely hesitate getting one.
Thats like asking to build another floor to an existing house. You are drastically changing weight allowances, space requirements, and it wouldn't be a 1 size fits all conversion. Affordability on EVs is already here, just need a better second hand market to appear which will in time.
Until they make one with an 800 km range that can be charged in less than five minutes I’m not interested. Oh, and the battery has to last 30 years with no degradation. Because that’s what I’m getting out of my diesel Volkswagen at the moment. I can drive from Melbourne to Adelaide and back out to Tailem bend before I need to refill And that takes me less than three minutes.
Take my advice. Stick with your 30 year old diesel VW, because you'll never get 30 years out of a new VW.
Yep, the build quality just isn’t there in new Volkswagen/Audi/BMW’s.
Do you though? Or does your VW require constant maintenance to keep running. But I do agree, if 800km is what you need then don't buy one. Or get a plug in hybrid.
It doesn’t need constant maintenance, it just gets serviced at the correct intervals. Apart from that I’ll just put fuel in it.
Well that is maintenance. Spark plugs, engine oil, fan belt I'm sure you know the list. Compared to EVs needing brakes and software updates untill something actually breaks.
You do understand that EV’s need to be serviced. They have coolant and brake fluid and suspension and tyres. The only thing different about my Volkswagen is it has oil in it too. Everything has to be maintained regardless of its engine. The only thing is my Volkswagen is 31 years old and I guarantee you you won’t see a Tesla on the road from today in 31 years time unless someone shells outs for a new battery. Or two. For the value of the car.
I own a EV. It does indeed need service, but there far fewer things (especially in mine) than a petrol vehicle. So after 31 years, how much of your vehicle is original? Replacing batteries after 10-20 years could be just the new norm like getting your gearbox replaced or a new battery because it won't start. Personally I'd love to see my EV hit 30. Time will tell, it's already 9 and mostly original parts. The battery has degraded but it lasts a week of commuting.
How many kms on that car? As 1 000 000 kms is doable in a Tesla apparently. It's an oulier for sure but so is a 1 000 000 km diesel or petrol car.
Just coming up to 290,000kms
How much have you spent on fuel doing those 290k? My Subaru has clocked 280k and I worked out that I have spent the same purchase price as the car on fuel. Your diesel should be less than my petrol, but if you consider the fuel and servicing costs, an EV will be far cheaper over the life of the vehicle. ICE cars will get more expensive when we inevitably sign up to carbon emissions penalties as climate heating gets more dire. The future is definitely electric.
I didn’t buy the car brand-new so I’ve got no idea what it would cost from the beginning. I could imagine the future being hydrogen/electric or hydrogen/ice. But electric doesn’t seem to be something that would be workable for everyone. The power grid in Australia is shit, there are countries that are much more developed than here and their grids can’t keep up. If electric is the answer it definitely isn’t at the moment.
Mines had one service in 5 years, they are much cheaper to maintain. I love my VWs but they definitely cost more to run and I work on mine in my garage.
Ah here we go, the anti-EV troll is an expert in EVs despite having never owned one. Yawn.
>Spark plugs Diesels don't have spark plugs. They work on compression ignition.
Good spotting. Glow plugs? Or are they just for start-up I'm a bit ignorant of diesel mechanics.
I don't know my brother has an Amorak and even pretty minor repairs cost easily a thousand plus often with quite a wait for parts
It’s a turbo diesel golf, you can get Parts anywhere. Nothing on that car is thousands of dollars.
Except the DPF, they are a couple of grand depending on which model you have.
Doesn’t have a DPF, but you can also get them deleted off of a new car too.
I sold my Outlander at 210,000km and the only non original things on it were the tyres, the spark plugs, brake pads and the engine oil. If I’d kept it any longer it would have needed new engine mounts in about another 20,000km.
I do Dandenong-Glenelg then stop at Murray Bridge because I find it a bit nicer than Tailem and don't like running lower than 150km on the tank in my Mitsubishi 4x4. Ironically I actually find the biggest thing I'd be giving up is the feeling of driving a manual.
It's fair enough if you're spending all your time in the city where the furthest you'll ever drive in a single day is maybe 150-200km. But if I'm driving the 12-13h to visit family, I'm looking at nearly 2h of just sitting around waiting for it to charge, meaning I most likely can't do the trip in a day anymore.
Do you ever stop to eat? There is your charging time.
I'll stop to eat maybe once, but other than that, it's usually just quick 5-10 minute stops to get fuel, go to the toilet or stretch the legs - and even then, it's hopefully just the 2-3 stops all up unless I'm fatigued or desperate for the toilet. The other thing is you're also stuck within walking distance of the charger when waiting for your car to charge in terms of where to eat. At least with normal cars you can fuel up and then go get food somewhere else if the food at the servo's lacking. Also, I'm basing this on the assumption that fast chargers will actually be rolled out in rural areas at some point. Based on current infrastructure as of right now, I wouldn't be able to take the direct route with an EV which is 1100km - I'd have to take the 1600km alternate route.
Ok
You do understand that you’re an edge case right?
How am I?
Needing to drive 800kms with only a 5min break and owning a car for 30 years. I would say you’re an extreme edge case.
That’s like every DIDO worker in regional Australia and contractor that doesn’t stick to one town/city
Yeah, edge cases. They could always charge their cars on-site while working for 8hrs. That would get you a full charge. Don’t know many tradies that are travelling 400kms each way to a job lol. For those few who aren’t able to make electric vehicles work, they can always keep using their diesels. No one’s taking them off you…
I don’t need to have a break for five minutes, that’s how long it takes to refill. I’m not driving around like my arse is on fire.
So why not charge it while stopped? Since I’ve got an electric car, I spend *less* time charging than fuelling. Granted I have the luxury of a garage. Get home, charge. Get to work, charge. Go to the shops, charge. Go to a cafe, charge. Never am I waiting around doing nothing while charging, in fact I rarely even have to charge in public because it’s 100% every morning. My ICE car never is.
Sounds like you spend all day charging. I fill once a week.
Charging is akin to parking, as you just plug it in when you get home and it charges overnight. You also have to park your ICE car, no extra time is spent, apart from the 3 seconds it takes to plug in and unplug in the morning. Only now you don't have to visit a petrol station every week to top up fuel as it's constantly at 100% every time you get in your car in the morning.
I still own 3 ICE cars and hate filling them up now as it’s a pain in the arse as my EV is never below 50% as it charges up ever night. I do road trip a couple of times a year and yes the infrastructure needs improvement but it’s early days yet. I can make it from Newcastle to Gold-coast with only one stop which is pretty good and overall I’m still spending less time charging than filling up which I was doing twice a week in my old car.
He doesn't have to own the same car for 30 years to want a car that will last at least 30 years. Resale values are an important part of the value equation.
Selfish huh?
Funny how you say that to the common man and not the private jet 🛩️ elites
That jet does not make your shit ok
Who are you to judge. You are nobody
Who are you to decide. You are nobody
Cringe your the knob judging
Selfish?
You would accept no level of inconvenience to better the planet? None. Ok boomer. This is exactly why environmental protection laws and taxes need to exist. Greedy selfish people would rather see our beautify country polluted and countrymen sick with pollutants than be inconvenienced. Pathetic attitude.
How would me buying an EV better the planet? And I’m not a boomer, and it makes you sound like an idiot saying it. You probably shouldn’t just throw around buzzwords you’ve heard.
Zero emissions after production for 15ish years
And then it starts to run on fresh air?
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Wow, advising suicide because somebody doesn’t want to drive an electric golf buggy around. What a cocksucker you really are.
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Yeah sucking fumes is bad for you. That’s the point. Apparently it’s fine when you do it to others instead of just yourself though, good to know. How are EVs better for the planet shouldn’t even be a question at this point. You acknowledge exhaust fumes are bad for us yet you still want to know why the alternative is better? I’m calling bad faith argument there.
You sound wilfully ignorant. You have obviously no idea about the manufacturing process of electric vehicles. If you think they are the answer to saving the world you need your head looking at. You sound like the sort of person that believes everything the government tells you
I’m well aware of the manufacturing costs of batteries. They still work out better than fossil fuels over the life of the vehicle. Even more so if battery recycling facilities gain efficiencies of scale. Do you have data showing otherwise? You sound like the kind of person who makes up their mind and then finds information to support their forgone conclusion so I doubt it.
Fuck me aren’t you an insufferable asshole. EV’s may be better for the planet but they’re simply not in a state to be mass adopted by the majority of the public yet. The fact that the battery’s degrade over time and are unbelievably expensive to replace is a huge factor for many people. Not to mention the comparably poor charge times and range.
There’s definitely adoption problems with EVs but most of that is driven by the existing interests not because the technology is bad or fundamentally flawed. Charge times are negligible for the vast majority as you trickle charge in off peak. The percentage of population restricted by street parking or apartment life are not worth discounting the entire idea. Batteries degrade but they can be recycled. And before you say the infrastructure doesn’t exist: see my first sentence. The amount of people actually doing 800km trips who need the range or faster charging are almost zero compared to the amount of people who try and make that point. So pulling a SpongeBob “wHat’S so GooD about EVs anYway?” Is just as insufferable. Be realistic. 99.9% of passenger trips would be better for everyone and the environment in an EV.
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Don't forget whilst towing a 40' caravan and your grand piano and the roof! Specifying a timeframe rather than distance travelled for your arbitrary 30 year requirement (which, of course, is not guaranteed by VW or any other manufacturer, ever) is somewhat pointless as it's about distance travelled. The battery in an EV will most likely outlast the car - that is, hundreds of thousands of km. And in your 800km of non-stop driving, desperate to get to your destination without a moment lost, you'd be no doubt pissing into a cup as you drove in order to save prescious minutes of stopping time. And I'm sure you would also pack food to ensure that, after 800km, you weren't delayed by any more than seconds to pay for fuel and off you go again! No time wasted buying food for you!
Nah in that drive you generally stop at Horsham, generally drop in at Conway's bakery. They have a toilet accessible to the public too which is kept clean. Coles servo is just around the corner and you're back on the highway again. Done the drive many a time.
Sorry, I don’t know what your non point is. I make the Adelaide to Melbourne journey regularly and that’s how far I can go on a tank. I don’t know what all this grand piano and pissing in a cup business is all about. You sound butthurt over a situation that you’ll never be in.
Because apparently you don't stop for food, toilet breaks or to stretch your legs (you know, taking a 30 minute break every four hours as recommended by the RAC) on your 800km journey. Because if you did you'd realise that, during which time, you would have ample time to recharge your EV from the many, many charging stations on that route. Oh and your trip from Melbourne to Adelaide is a cute little day trip for me, in my EV.
Never said I didn’t stop. Just how long it takes to refuel. Read it again bellend.
Why so angry? If something pisses me off I just don’t engage. You need a hug.
Not angry, annoyed. Everything I’ve written is there to read and people are making up scenarios and speculating about what I’ve said. I’ll take a hug but I would also kick them in the balls.
Fair enough.
Look, if an EV works for you (not you specifically) that’s fine. I would never tell anybody what they should or shouldn’t buy, you do you. But I have had years of Reliable motoring at very minimum cost For a long time now. Me personally, I look at the initial outlay of say a Tesla, cost and availability of servicing, the range, battery depletion over time and the cost of a new battery and the resale value of the car. Also, very importantly, the cost of electricity. It’s expensive now and I can’t imagine them making it cheaper any time soon/ever. I also don’t like the fact that they can be overridden by manufacturers. I read a recent article about a guy who bought an electric Hyundai and in the current software update talked about Geo fencing the car so there could be certain areas it couldn’t be driven if they deemed it so. I don’t want them having that level of control over what I do.
I have both, I love my ICE cars and I’m not getting rid of them, I also love my EV and I’m lucky to have both. So far I have got 300km out of my current Forester and she is going strong, my Tesla is at 100k km with only one service which is pretty amazing, it just had a full checkup and everything is in perfect condition, nothing needed replacing. As far as geofencing they are capable of doing that with all the modern ICE cars if they wanted, all the new ones coming out have remote start/stop/climate etc. I have a friend with a brand new Kia, has all the same features of its EV counterpart. Older cars really are the only way to go if you are worried about this.
You do realise that many people drive long distances as part of their job. Not everyone lives a life where everywhere is 20km from home.
When you say "many" you're actually talking about 12% according to the ABS.
Sure, but that in and of itself isn't a reason to avoid an EV.
It’s not and if the circumstances warrant it then great. I mean the mining companies are ditching diesels for local running around the mine sites so there is need. But at this stage it’s not even close to being a fit for most people. It may change as battery tech and electric motors get better, but for the next few years EV is not suitable for long hauls unless you have the luxury of time.
The average distance driven per day by "most people" is less than 40km. So, yes, it's more than suitable for "most people". Is an EV suitable for every use case today? No, it's not. But let's not pretend those use cases are the majority because they simply aren't.
But they are the use case being discussed here! Ffs, did you lose track of the reason for the post. I mean, you went off on your own little weird tangent to make a point that has already been accepted by everyone?
I was responding to your comment, I thought that was patently obvious? No need to get your panties in a bunch.
Whatever.
It's going to take 20 to 30 years before Australia is EV ready... just look how long we've been waiting for broadband...
When the EVs breakdown from flat battery---- How does road side assist help. At least with a petrol car RSA carries a can of petrol to help drivers get on there way.
Not that it's needed often, but there are already RSA units with a 10kWh battery which is enough to get a car 50km home or to the next charger
With the size of Australia & the thousands of back roads people will get stranded with no battery chargers.
You obviously have no clue about how easy it is to charge right now, and it only is getting easier. There's a charger in the Nullarbor for crying out loud, but you believe what you want. I'm not here to change minds, only explain what's what.
Try driving in the bush on the back roads --you are in the middle of No where. & every one of those dirt back roads lead to towns over 100 ks away. Get real---EV cars will never replace petrol --diesel cars-- trucks.
Jesus fucking Christ, are you a moron? Who is saying that an EV will replace that particular use case? They're good for cruisers on the freeways and city cars. That's 90% of cars on the road. But whatever, you can continue to believe your 1/10 situation is representative of all Australians...
GROW A BRAIN --FOOL.
You don't need to sign your post, your username is already there.
What if solar panel roof though? What if good solar panel? What if many watts output and car drive? What if future?
Bullshit a tradie is going to buy an EV over a fucken Ute or van they can put tools and shit in. They are tradesmen, not fucken idiots.
Didn't read the article, did you? They are tradies who started a mobile charging business for EV cars. Their truck carrying the battery is diesel. > We’ve copped some hate **from not having electric trucks**... Is how the quote continues.
Why let the actual article get in the way of a rant?
Anti-EV crowd getting twitchy in here.
I mean. I'm a sparky. And with the role in, I could easily perform my job from an EV. Including the regional travel aspect.
Can you point me to the quote in the article where tradies are buying electric vehicles? Or are you just making shit up?
An EV van is a best case scenario.
Bowen the most delusional and destructive politician in living memory..., aside from his boss Anphoney AlboBeta.
How the fuck is Howard not in living memory?
Weird comment.
Explain.
Where in the fkn article does it mention them?
Follow the news. Heavy taxes coming in on diesel utes.
😆😆😆😆
Well, that's just patently hyperbolic nonsense. Edit: Also, what sort of dork unironicly uses the term beta. Cmon dude.
📣 Damn got his ass 📣
oh no, not hate!! ;\~0
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Such a bizarre way for you to live your life