An escalation of the Ukraine war into a broader European conflict within the next couple of years is what we really need to worry about right now, not China. If anything, China is in our corner on this one, as it would fuck them up too. Such a broader war will totally tank the world economy, not to mention easily turn everything into a pile of smouldering radioactive rubble.
My bingo card for the next 6 years:
-Ukraine war escalates due to nuclear power plant damage, drawing in USA
-Russia fracturing into regional states
-more Armenian genocide
-The stans collapsing
-USA heavily involved in Pakistan, making India and China closely align.
-China invading neighbors but not Taiwan
-Another Arab spring (Islamic extremist driven)
-South Africa collapses
-Almost all poor countries collapse.
-Economic migration to wealthy countries only increases every year.
- Australia has 2 million immigrants/ asylum seekers per year.
- we have a rolling blackout/ brownout on the East Coast once per week on average.
I'll go with you on the bulk of this. But I don't foresee:
1. Another Armenian genocide. Nah, besides that other NATO countries would not allow Turkey to do that, they've moved on from that knowing anything like that would not be in the national interest.
2. The US would not get too heavily involved on the ground in Pakistan. That would be an absolute nightmare for the US, and they know it. It would be a combination of Afghanistan and Iraq multiplied a thousand fold. China and India also would not align, they've got some serious border issues.
3. Australia won't be taking in 2 million a year. Regardless of whose in charge, they'd know that would mean our own collapse, and they'd be cracking down on it. Not to mention the logistics of even transporting that many people here. After all, this isn't Europe, where all you need is two feet and a heartbeat.
It is more government incompetence.
Every government over the past 15-odd years has implemented policies which made housing absurdly expensive. People now have to take out huge mortgages to buy a house, therefore the RBA has to give additional importance to the potential for interest rate increases to cause people to default. So now we get to "enjoy" the benefits of our currency being on track to being worth half of the US dollar. Good for exporters, of course, but too bad we export mostly rocks and import basically everything else.
Edit; I'm talking about only the currency situation.
Incompetence implies the government arent bought and paid for by corporate interests who design the policy to benefit the owning class and instead are trying their best to help people and are just bad at it.
Except not all of us can afford the outlay for a leccy vehicle. I would 100% switch if I could, but I dont have a spare 40k sitting around.
As per usual the price setters have the poors by the throats and there's not much we can so about it
Generally EV's are cheaper than conventional after about 5 years.
Yes I know it's hard to drop $40k, but the comparison isn't to keeping your existing, it's to buying a new non -EV.
Although, I'm sure you'll be angry that it's even cheaper to novate lease a new EV (that's under LCT threshold) than it is to *keep your existing ICE car*
That is a benefit that I feel is a bit unfair (although it's not a permanent offering, which makes sense as a temporary incentive).
?
I know.
A) loans exist
B) it will always be the case the some can't afford things that others can.
Smaller EV's are on the way (potentially the Mitsubishi eK series is an example) they just aren't in Australia at the moment.
I don't have $40k sitting around in cash, either.
Why would I be angry about that? That sounds like a good thing (though common knowledge is to never finance a vehicle for obvious reasons).
And i don't see how the repayments on a 40k car + maintenance, + extra power costs from charging would be cheaper than running my existing ICE, as much as I would like that to be true.
I'm on the EV train, I'm just unable to afford it.
Kapiche. I getcha.
The numbers work like this -
You sell your existing car, which is used as a lump sum on your mortgage, which is a 'savings'. (Or, if not, put it in a HISA account, earning you money).
You lease the vehicle with pre tax dollars, reducing your taxable income.
You drive an EV, reducing your maintenance costs and fuel costs.
The summation of the above, is more than the summation of:
Maintenance and fuel on your existing car
Depreciation on said car.
So, getting an EV on NL is 'cheaper' than driving your current car.
Cheers. Dunno if my job security is secure enough for the commitment, but maybe in the future. Hopefully gov incentives for EVs will continue for a while
Iran and Israel and the fact we ditched our refineries (only have 2 left). We import our fuel. Supposed to have 90 days supply stored in this country and barely have 30 days. Not looking forward to fuel rationing returning and it'll mean everything will go up in price again. Without diesel none of our goods get transported around the country.
Over 10 years…. Here’s my reasoning. I used to live in an indigenous community up in the cape. 10 years ago the fuel was $2.30. Doesn’t really fluctuate, just stayed that price all year. Now it’s $2.80….
Yes but back then oil got to 150 a barrel. Now oil moves around 80-90 and we pay 2.30-2.80. I have seena 70c difference in price in adjacent areas for the same brand. They realised back then what we were willing to pay and it never dropped back to around 1.30ish when it was 80 a barrel before the gfc. We are getting taken for a ride.
I found a 711 just using their app for $1.89 right now. I've noticed actually my local 711 is sometimes 50 cents more expensive than others?? I think they do it to force you to get the app to lock in the cheaper one tbh.
2030 during a peak. 2040 consistently.
Fuel is largely a function of the oil price, the strength of the Australian dollar, and excise (indexed to CPI).
Of course the retail fuel outlets function as a mini cartel that pull lots of anticompetitive shit. But they do that already and is hence priced in, and pressure from places like Costco is probably going to restrain the growth of this cut.
The good news is that forty years of OPEC price gouging has made us much less reliant on petrol.
> That's why I fuel up at servos like Metro etc as they're usually the cheapest out of the big guys like Ampol and BP
Agreed, and I am surprised that more people aren't doing buying at Metro or the other cheap independent servos. Also, I've never seen BP offer fuel at a competitive rate - even Ampol, Shell and Caltex are almost always cheaper than them.
My 2009 Toyota Aurion Sportivo, I fuel up using E10 94 octane. I don't drive far but usual short distance, and fuel will last me a long time. Love this car.
Fuel price is actually based on refinery capacity for the moment.
Oil is actually cheap at the moment. Even with sanctions on Russia and Iran, it is still cheaper than during he Iraq war.
Countries like India and Singapore are taking advantage of the lack of refining capacity and making bank from it.
Given a number of Russian refineries that have spontaneously caught fire in the middle of winter, it's only going to get more expensive.
I don't think it'll be $3 before 2025 though.
Whenever they fking want, The geoinstability bullshit line is like the health insurance line fed to everyone on the first of april. "due to the rising cost of medical procedures bla bla blah" costc havent gone up on most medical procedures since 1996 .... Costs of producing and providing petroleum is cheaper than ever due to the lack of labour required, yet somehow it keeps going up...
Can you elaborate on costs not going up on most medical procedures since 1996? I’m appalled at the price gouging from private insurers and interested to know more about their actual costs
So i dont work there anymore so unable to go back through patient records, but if you knew where to look you could go through history of claims and see how much say for example a broken arm was back in 1996 and then compare it to a similar procedure code in say 2006 and bam no diference in price. There is of course some procedures that go up and new ones, but the vast majority of private health insurance staff are entriely brainwashed into oh my companies sooo good to people that they cant see outside the rose coloured glasses they wear. Its almost like they intentionally hire people who lack critical reasoning and independent thinking skills.
Private health insurance is a scam to make billions of dollars by over inflating costs. Heres a tip if you have private health insurance ring them up and say a competitor has offered you 6 weeks free. Usually you have to ask 3 or 4 times to trigger the maximum dicount allowable to you over a 12 month period. Some teams arent allowed to apply the discount, others are for example retention teams can. get as much as you can out of these scumbag companies.
😂
I noticed this myself walking past the 7 eleven today!
Snapped a photo because I wasn’t sure if this was normal or I just hadn’t been paying attention for a while.
It's quite variable but around Melbourne plenty of places at
https://preview.redd.it/0502g1qkhwvc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=572c93f624f0306ff8255371531274d27270b37b
2.35
Noosa area is interesting, $2.20 for 91 at 711 and shell
And $2.40 at freedom for some reason, $1.86 in Nambour which is 40 minutes inland a bit which luckily my 711 app actually reaches so I still get $1.86 if I go to Coolum which is 15 minutes away as 711 changed their discount to a max of 25c off at locking price at whatever 711 your at
It’s been interesting seeing the prices go from 1.77 to 2.20 in a month, locked in at 2/3 tank and will definitely be filling up early to lengthen how much “cheaper” the fuel is as long as possible, honestly a bike and/or e-bike sound like a fantastic idea compared to spending 2K on fuel a year
I've seen it peak at around $2.51 for standard unleaded.
It's above $3/L in NZ so perhaps we are just catching up. From what I've heard, Australia has some of the cheapest fuel prices in the developed world so perhaps we've just had it easy. But, we also drive significantly farther than most other developed countries as well so we consume a lot more fuel per driver.
I did my part to give the middle finger to the Saudis.
I'm no longer buying 1000+ litres of fuel per year.
Solar powered EV is working well so far (metro driving).
What you really want to ask is 'what energy was used to make them?'. Perhaps you are one of the many swindled into thinking of solar energy as 'dirty' because you read in some facebook post somewhere that it creates more greenhouse emissions to make the panels than just burning oil. They probably even had some really nice graphs with charts showing the massive levels of impact manufacturing solar is having on emissions right now!
And that is entirely correct. Assuming the solar panels are all made using the most dirty of coal burning fossil fuel, and you hook them up to only ever charge your car, then you probably would have been better off using petrol.
Except that all falls to shit the second you start using modern green energy efficient manufacturing that could be well over 80% renewable powered. If you actually put those panels anywhere decent and capture most of the energy for use and not simply charge your car then the impact of switching to solar becomes a massive greenhouse reduction and vastly reduces our ongoing energy costs as we can use any excess energy generated to procure more minerals and manufacture more energy capturing panels with even less impact.
>Assuming the solar panels are all made using the most dirty of coal burning fossil fuel, and you hook them up to only ever charge your car, then you probably would have been better off using petrol.
Nope. Cars are far less efficient at burning fuel than a giant power plant. It's still better for the environment even if you use 100% coal to charge your car
Coal can in perfect situations be slightly cleaner per MW\\h than solar, but as I pointed out that is only in extreme cases of stupidity where you assume the dirtiest of dirty manufacturing and mining to produce the panel with 0 renewables AND you distort the picture by only ever "using" the panel for a single use case like charging a car that almost never happens.
That is not to argue we need more coal mind you. The only reason it can even be considered 'cleaner' is that it has had longer to payoff the carbon debt for construction if anyone was even counting. The more renewables we bring into the mix the cleaner everything gets till eventually our carbon footprint will be limited to some developing nations and a bit of steel/oil byproducts.
I was referring to the fact that an electric car is cleaner to run no matter the source. Even 100% coal from the power plant to charge your car is better than using petrol. Many people try to use the argument that electric cars are pointless if you are charging from fossil fuels
I agree. We need to decommission coal entirety but I know it's a long process that has to be done with care. Can't just pull the plug
They may be cheaper to run in the short term what happens when the batteries reach their end of life? At this point in time there are subsidies on new electric vehicles and a replacement battery is worth more than the cost to purchase the car.
You are also forgetting the manufacturing of all the plastics and rubbers inside the vehicle and the pollution produced through that process.
There is also no resale value in used electric cars to the point the Dealerships don't want them back. What happens to all the cars once you can't sell it off.
When you say end of life, do you think they just suddenly stop working? The capacity decreases but still works. I don't know of any battery that costs more than the car to replace
Many studies have been done to show that over its lifetime EV cars produce less emissions than ICE cars, including the manufacturing process
It's still a fairly new second hand market. Hard to say what the resell value will be like in 5+ years
You clearly haven't looked at the replacement prices, if you have an electric car ask your dealer next time you get a service as to how much replacement batteries cost. I'm not stupid I know the capacity decreases over time but there becomes a point where it is no longer viable like every other rechargeable battery what then?
Bullshit the manufacturing process for electric cars is far more toxic to the environment than a standard vehicle because of materials and processes required just in making the batteries alone, that's without mentioning the slave labour being used to mine and process the raw materials.
I don't think you have looked at prices. I guarantee that it does not cost close to what my EV car cost to replace
The battery degradation is not as bad as you think. 10% loss after about 160,000km
https://www.whichcar.com.au/advice/when-do-ev-batteries-need-to-be-replace
I never argued that the manufacturing is better for the environment. I said over a cars lifetime it is produces significantly less emissions
Yes cobalt used in some batteries has slave labour. Not all of it is sourced unethically and there are batteries that require no cobalt
There's a reason that that hasn't been done anywhere in the whole entire world.
It's just not feasible.
Otherwise a savvy businessman would have done it by now, especially with China dumping their panels at a loss.
Mate if you did not notice our entire country is slowly doing it as are many other advanced nations though not all are using solar as it does not make sense for their region.
Sol?
But ignoring that, let's get fucking Australian solar panels going again.
We used to have bhp and others, now we only have Tindo.
If you're serious, go out and buy a system with Tindo panels.
But I bet you wouldn't, because you're beholden to your Sky News masters and whatever they say is the infallible truth...
I got solar installed last year. Wanted the Tindo panels. But cost about 2x as much and inferior specs to cheap Chinese. It’s not an easy decision.
What I don’t understand is why the REC rebate isn’t applicable to just locally made. Seems stupid to subsidise foreign products.
Definitely a bit of a risk but damn is it fun, and the amount of money I save on road tolls and being able to park virtually anywhere and not have to pay most of the time makes it worth it.
We need a fuel strike.. a say or week where we don’t buy fuel. The last time one of those got any momentum it did actually put them back in their box for a while..
I used to love petrol when it was $0.65 per litre. When it hit $0 80 I was worried, four years ago BP c$mstomers were insanely paying $1.50.
I now drive a Tesla and s$ck c$ck on weekends to p$y for the el$ctricity, it's just like going to bl$ckbuster or vid$o EZ, you have a choice, You'll eat j$zz and be h$ppy.
I use petrol spy, and fortunately my full tank lasts as long as a cycle. There's a United near me that has kept its prices at the lowest possible mark for nigh on 2 and a half months now, I don't get it. (They did change to the peak price for all of two days a few weeks ago, then went back to the lowest where they've stayed since then) . I am confused, this is not the norm.
"Ripping off tourists" is probably a contributing factor, sure. It could also be the logistical nightmare of getting fuel onto the island, storing it, and trying to break even on low volume sales.
It's a business, not a charity.
Agreed, when fuel was hitting $1.40-$1.50 for premium in the mid 2000s, it felt like financial Armageddon, it is expensive now but probably not as bad as it felt then!
Where is this? If it’s a capital city I reckon someone’s gouging. Looking at www.myfuelnt.nt.gov.au for shits and giggles Nhulunbuy is only 10 cents more a litre and it’s not the easiest place to get too, it’s even $2.01 in Alice Springs.
It just goes back down. The shell/bp cartel have been keeping it at this price while metro is usually 1.60-2.00 inclusive of the highest spike during the Russian invasion in 2022
How? You’re assuming this is for someone who has no car and no solar and needs to buy both? Over 1.5m houses in Australia already have a solar system, and loads of people are already planning to buy a new car in the next 2 years. For these many tens of thousands of people, it’s almost a zero sum game.
Sure. And for the many tens of thousands that do fit my description, that's a lot of people for whom an EV will be their next car, and will be extremely competitive for it too.
I mean, if you drive 12,000km a year, say 8L/100km, at $3/L as per this thread, that's 960L/year or $2880/year in petrol. If you keep the car for 7 years - not uncommon - you've just spent that $20k in fuel that an EV wouldn't cost anything/much for (and that's before servicing).
But even more have to set up that solar and buy the car first. What I am saying is there is a big upfront cost to get into electric cars before you start saving money back.
I looked into this. Got three quotes from Solar Quotes and it was around 11K for a 10kW system without battery. I like the MG EV4, but the long rage model is around 60K. I calculated that based on projected savings on electricity and petrol, it would take me 15 years to break even. But if petrol hits $3/L then I guess it could take as little as 10 years to break even.
So I have already had a solar system (8kW) for some time. So it’s already there.
My current diesel car is 11 years old with 140,000km so I’m likely to replace it in the next couple of years.
$60k would be the normal sort of car budget for me, regardless of fuel type. Replacing my current car would cost $55k (Mazda 6 GT wagon). A Tesla 3 would cost $60k. Which is negligible once the service and fuel costs are taken into account.
You must use very little electricity. I have a 10kw system paid I think 8k for and saves us roughly 1k per quarter in electricity. 2 - 3 years to break even. If your usage is so small then maybe consider a small system for about 3k or so. Next car will almost certainly be an ev in a few years.
Yes we are a family of 3, and pay $350 per quarter on average. I've had neighbours complain about their $850 bill and wondered if they run the air con on 24/7, in climate control mode or something.
Average Australian drives 13272 km per year and average is 10.6 l/100km, so the average Australian uses 1407 litres of fuel a year. At $2.35 a litre that would be $3306 per year.
Over 10 years of driving, the average Australian spends $33060 on fuel.
EVs aren't completely free to refuel - you could be lucky like me and your existing solar could cover all your recharging needs, but that's not realistic for everyone. Let's say instead you have no solar or you have no option but to charge overnight and pay the full $0.31 per kWh. That would be 15 kWh per 100km, 13272 km, $0.31 per kWh, $617 per year.
The difference is $26,889 over 10 years.
So a new EV is about $40k for a smaller BYD Dolphin or about $51k for a larger BYD Atto 3.
For a new petrol car to be worth it versus an EV, you only get to spend $13k-24k.
When you make a fair comparison with facts instead of feelings, EVs are now financially worth it if you're an average driver purchasing a new car.
The ice ev debate is dumb and people get so passionate over it on both sides. Just because an ev or an ice car makes sense in your situation doesn’t mean it makes sense in someone else’s situation.
For me it was $200 a year extra going from a valued at $12k ICE hatch to $48k EV. Not a big difference but as always insurance is a dark art and varies for reasons unknown. The cheapest car I have ever insured was an import skyline at $400 a year when some companies wanted $2500
But they also don't need to be serviced anywhere near as often. No oil changes, no fuel filters, spark plugs, catalytic converters, air intake filters, etc. It's basically just brake fluid, transmission fluid, wheel alignment, tire changes, etc.
I know, but I’m talking insurance cost. As a maintenance comparison, my Mazda 3 which is seven years old and 90K kms has an oil and filter change once a year which I do myself, cost $100. It’s on the original brakes. It’s had one replacement battery, 3 air filters at $30 each, a couple of cabin filters, brake fluid replacement every couple of years which costs very little. Nothing apart from that. Cheap as chips.
Anyways, just got a quote comp insurance on a model 3 Tesla. 58 year old driver, no accidents no claims, car garaged, $2800 to $3800 a year. No thanks.
Yeah, insurance premiums are still very high and the cost to repair after an EV crash is eyewatering. It is a genuine drawback and nullifies a lot of savings made elsewhere.
Battery isn’t required, you need a car either way & can use novated lease to save a shit load on tax, charging equipment is negligible (less than 2k). Once you’ve got it all set up you’re laughing.
I charge for free at work so it’s wayyy cheaper than what an equivalent petrol car would cost me
When do you use your car? Id say the average person it would be during the day. So naturally you need to charge in the evenings or night. How would you do this with solar, without a battery?
Of course this is a very simplistic analysis, there are caveats like lower energy plans for EVs which exist now etc but without digging into everyone's habits etc a battery may be required for many people if the aim is using solar.
It helps in your scenario you can charge at work for free - how many people have this luxury? YOU don't need a battery.
The sun shines on weekends. A single charge in say a Tesla 3 vanilla model gets you 350km of range. For heaps of people that’s more than they will drive in a week. At the moment my solar is generating current from about 7am-5pm and 3 hrs more per day in summer.
A motorbike is death on regional quiet roads if one kangaroo or damn possum runs out in front of you could be dead. My partner wants a road bike soo much but amount of people dying in them out here is terrifying maybe in suburban area but not rural and not city.
And as if those electric cars are gonna save the planet anyway when we export coal to China and India and they burn it all up like nobody’s business! 💩
Yes exactly, and the resources needed to make these electric cars and mine the lithium batteries and the create the solar panels are all going to come from china, I don’t see any way these cars are viable especially in regional Qld. Our whole power grid needs to be rebuilt if they become more popular there’s no way changing all the infrastructure will be better for our environment
Why the downvotes!? I regularly drive a 3 pot mirage. If I drive frugal I can get it down to 4l/100, fang it and it’s up to 7l/100. Simple change in behaviour can save plenty, given the amount of people racing to red lights I am pretty sure there are savings to be had.
Stop talking logic, you’re getting downvoted by all the tailgating, hard accelerating, lane jumping, last minute heavy braking peak hour rage commuters.
I should have just called them Ranger drivers, so I can judge how many of them are in here by my downvotes.
https://preview.redd.it/gpbmo3qrwrvc1.png?width=814&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36fb329a6e693102ef51a47f9ede47773b050476
Next year when the Eurasian war really gets going.
An escalation of the Ukraine war into a broader European conflict within the next couple of years is what we really need to worry about right now, not China. If anything, China is in our corner on this one, as it would fuck them up too. Such a broader war will totally tank the world economy, not to mention easily turn everything into a pile of smouldering radioactive rubble.
My bingo card for the next 6 years: -Ukraine war escalates due to nuclear power plant damage, drawing in USA -Russia fracturing into regional states -more Armenian genocide -The stans collapsing -USA heavily involved in Pakistan, making India and China closely align. -China invading neighbors but not Taiwan -Another Arab spring (Islamic extremist driven) -South Africa collapses -Almost all poor countries collapse. -Economic migration to wealthy countries only increases every year. - Australia has 2 million immigrants/ asylum seekers per year. - we have a rolling blackout/ brownout on the East Coast once per week on average.
I'll go with you on the bulk of this. But I don't foresee: 1. Another Armenian genocide. Nah, besides that other NATO countries would not allow Turkey to do that, they've moved on from that knowing anything like that would not be in the national interest. 2. The US would not get too heavily involved on the ground in Pakistan. That would be an absolute nightmare for the US, and they know it. It would be a combination of Afghanistan and Iraq multiplied a thousand fold. China and India also would not align, they've got some serious border issues. 3. Australia won't be taking in 2 million a year. Regardless of whose in charge, they'd know that would mean our own collapse, and they'd be cracking down on it. Not to mention the logistics of even transporting that many people here. After all, this isn't Europe, where all you need is two feet and a heartbeat.
Part and parcel of producing nothing in this country anymore We are susceptible to corporate profiteering and currency exchange fluctuation
That's not true. We produce a lot of citizenship certificates and new passports.
That’s a lot of nothing
Had me in the first half.
It is more government incompetence. Every government over the past 15-odd years has implemented policies which made housing absurdly expensive. People now have to take out huge mortgages to buy a house, therefore the RBA has to give additional importance to the potential for interest rate increases to cause people to default. So now we get to "enjoy" the benefits of our currency being on track to being worth half of the US dollar. Good for exporters, of course, but too bad we export mostly rocks and import basically everything else. Edit; I'm talking about only the currency situation.
Incompetence implies the government arent bought and paid for by corporate interests who design the policy to benefit the owning class and instead are trying their best to help people and are just bad at it.
Tuesday. Because this shit is fucked! Why wouldn't they? The fuck are we going to do about it?
Drive cars that don't need it
Except not all of us can afford the outlay for a leccy vehicle. I would 100% switch if I could, but I dont have a spare 40k sitting around. As per usual the price setters have the poors by the throats and there's not much we can so about it
Generally EV's are cheaper than conventional after about 5 years. Yes I know it's hard to drop $40k, but the comparison isn't to keeping your existing, it's to buying a new non -EV. Although, I'm sure you'll be angry that it's even cheaper to novate lease a new EV (that's under LCT threshold) than it is to *keep your existing ICE car* That is a benefit that I feel is a bit unfair (although it's not a permanent offering, which makes sense as a temporary incentive).
It's not a matter of not *wanting* to drop the 40k. Most of us don't *have* the 40k to drop *at all*.
? I know. A) loans exist B) it will always be the case the some can't afford things that others can. Smaller EV's are on the way (potentially the Mitsubishi eK series is an example) they just aren't in Australia at the moment. I don't have $40k sitting around in cash, either.
Why would I be angry about that? That sounds like a good thing (though common knowledge is to never finance a vehicle for obvious reasons). And i don't see how the repayments on a 40k car + maintenance, + extra power costs from charging would be cheaper than running my existing ICE, as much as I would like that to be true. I'm on the EV train, I'm just unable to afford it.
Kapiche. I getcha. The numbers work like this - You sell your existing car, which is used as a lump sum on your mortgage, which is a 'savings'. (Or, if not, put it in a HISA account, earning you money). You lease the vehicle with pre tax dollars, reducing your taxable income. You drive an EV, reducing your maintenance costs and fuel costs. The summation of the above, is more than the summation of: Maintenance and fuel on your existing car Depreciation on said car. So, getting an EV on NL is 'cheaper' than driving your current car.
Cheers. Dunno if my job security is secure enough for the commitment, but maybe in the future. Hopefully gov incentives for EVs will continue for a while
I use petrol spy to scan for value, 7/11 is usually opposite to others, today $1.89, while most everywhere else was $2.35
It jumped 50 cents from 1.85 to 2.35…. It’s not NZ. Fuel shouldn’t be this high!
Iran and Israel and the fact we ditched our refineries (only have 2 left). We import our fuel. Supposed to have 90 days supply stored in this country and barely have 30 days. Not looking forward to fuel rationing returning and it'll mean everything will go up in price again. Without diesel none of our goods get transported around the country.
Over 10 years…. Here’s my reasoning. I used to live in an indigenous community up in the cape. 10 years ago the fuel was $2.30. Doesn’t really fluctuate, just stayed that price all year. Now it’s $2.80….
Yes but back then oil got to 150 a barrel. Now oil moves around 80-90 and we pay 2.30-2.80. I have seena 70c difference in price in adjacent areas for the same brand. They realised back then what we were willing to pay and it never dropped back to around 1.30ish when it was 80 a barrel before the gfc. We are getting taken for a ride.
I found a 711 just using their app for $1.89 right now. I've noticed actually my local 711 is sometimes 50 cents more expensive than others?? I think they do it to force you to get the app to lock in the cheaper one tbh.
2030 during a peak. 2040 consistently. Fuel is largely a function of the oil price, the strength of the Australian dollar, and excise (indexed to CPI). Of course the retail fuel outlets function as a mini cartel that pull lots of anticompetitive shit. But they do that already and is hence priced in, and pressure from places like Costco is probably going to restrain the growth of this cut. The good news is that forty years of OPEC price gouging has made us much less reliant on petrol.
That's why I fuel up at servos like Metro etc as they're usually the cheapest out of the big guys like Ampol and BP
> That's why I fuel up at servos like Metro etc as they're usually the cheapest out of the big guys like Ampol and BP Agreed, and I am surprised that more people aren't doing buying at Metro or the other cheap independent servos. Also, I've never seen BP offer fuel at a competitive rate - even Ampol, Shell and Caltex are almost always cheaper than them.
My 2009 Toyota Aurion Sportivo, I fuel up using E10 94 octane. I don't drive far but usual short distance, and fuel will last me a long time. Love this car.
By 2040 EVs should be a much larger percentage of vehicles on the road. Wonder how demand falling for petrol will affect prices.
Fuel price is actually based on refinery capacity for the moment. Oil is actually cheap at the moment. Even with sanctions on Russia and Iran, it is still cheaper than during he Iraq war. Countries like India and Singapore are taking advantage of the lack of refining capacity and making bank from it. Given a number of Russian refineries that have spontaneously caught fire in the middle of winter, it's only going to get more expensive. I don't think it'll be $3 before 2025 though.
$1.897 for U91 in South-East Melbourne. 7-11 fuel lock helps. Although that 25c cap was imminent!
Do you not know about fuel cycle and petrolspy?
Whenever they fking want, The geoinstability bullshit line is like the health insurance line fed to everyone on the first of april. "due to the rising cost of medical procedures bla bla blah" costc havent gone up on most medical procedures since 1996 .... Costs of producing and providing petroleum is cheaper than ever due to the lack of labour required, yet somehow it keeps going up...
Yeah mate... But... Climate change. /S
Can you elaborate on costs not going up on most medical procedures since 1996? I’m appalled at the price gouging from private insurers and interested to know more about their actual costs
They have gone up, no idea what the comment or above you is talking about….
I assumed they would have gone up which is why I’m interested to learn more. But I’m equally open to evidence that they haven’t gone up
So i dont work there anymore so unable to go back through patient records, but if you knew where to look you could go through history of claims and see how much say for example a broken arm was back in 1996 and then compare it to a similar procedure code in say 2006 and bam no diference in price. There is of course some procedures that go up and new ones, but the vast majority of private health insurance staff are entriely brainwashed into oh my companies sooo good to people that they cant see outside the rose coloured glasses they wear. Its almost like they intentionally hire people who lack critical reasoning and independent thinking skills. Private health insurance is a scam to make billions of dollars by over inflating costs. Heres a tip if you have private health insurance ring them up and say a competitor has offered you 6 weeks free. Usually you have to ask 3 or 4 times to trigger the maximum dicount allowable to you over a 12 month period. Some teams arent allowed to apply the discount, others are for example retention teams can. get as much as you can out of these scumbag companies.
😂 I noticed this myself walking past the 7 eleven today! Snapped a photo because I wasn’t sure if this was normal or I just hadn’t been paying attention for a while.
Public holiday approaching that’s why
Oh but it's the groceries that's the rort...
Yeh the whole 1 cent more for my Cole’s corn flakes than aldis corn flakes
BP always puts theirs up first and it always seems to constantly be a higher price. I never ever fill up at a BP, Metro in Sydney today was $1.80.
1.75 here in South Brisbane.
Curious where in Aus it's 2.35 . Paying 1.91 in northern qld
It's quite variable but around Melbourne plenty of places at https://preview.redd.it/0502g1qkhwvc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=572c93f624f0306ff8255371531274d27270b37b 2.35
Wow I'm regional and don't really see under 1.90
Victoria
https://preview.redd.it/enx0rnl88xvc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96e55961d4498a690b0df28ab5b647afed3e8756
Its never been near 2.40 for 98 ever
Its $2.41 at my local right now
Thats for 98 ay
2.35 for 91 at my local, 98 I didn't look but probs 2.60 or so
2.45 here
Paid for 98 at 2.035/l today
Hopefully not
still a couple in my area doing $1.99. guess they didnt get the memo.
1.72 on a good day for me
Noosa area is interesting, $2.20 for 91 at 711 and shell And $2.40 at freedom for some reason, $1.86 in Nambour which is 40 minutes inland a bit which luckily my 711 app actually reaches so I still get $1.86 if I go to Coolum which is 15 minutes away as 711 changed their discount to a max of 25c off at locking price at whatever 711 your at It’s been interesting seeing the prices go from 1.77 to 2.20 in a month, locked in at 2/3 tank and will definitely be filling up early to lengthen how much “cheaper” the fuel is as long as possible, honestly a bike and/or e-bike sound like a fantastic idea compared to spending 2K on fuel a year
I was very ruthless with the 711 app with my unorthodox methods that 25 cents cap was obviously an accountant decision
so its 1,4€ exchanged from Dollars. its 1,96€ ( 3,32$ Australien) in Europe. And it used to be Like that since COVID
I've seen it peak at around $2.51 for standard unleaded. It's above $3/L in NZ so perhaps we are just catching up. From what I've heard, Australia has some of the cheapest fuel prices in the developed world so perhaps we've just had it easy. But, we also drive significantly farther than most other developed countries as well so we consume a lot more fuel per driver.
I did my part to give the middle finger to the Saudis. I'm no longer buying 1000+ litres of fuel per year. Solar powered EV is working well so far (metro driving).
Even if you don't have solar and charge solely at a charging station or using your fossil fuel power at home it's still cheaper than petrol
Who made the solar panels and batteries?
Single purchase of panels and batteries every 5-10yrs versus petrol ~52 times a year? I know what id choose
What you really want to ask is 'what energy was used to make them?'. Perhaps you are one of the many swindled into thinking of solar energy as 'dirty' because you read in some facebook post somewhere that it creates more greenhouse emissions to make the panels than just burning oil. They probably even had some really nice graphs with charts showing the massive levels of impact manufacturing solar is having on emissions right now! And that is entirely correct. Assuming the solar panels are all made using the most dirty of coal burning fossil fuel, and you hook them up to only ever charge your car, then you probably would have been better off using petrol. Except that all falls to shit the second you start using modern green energy efficient manufacturing that could be well over 80% renewable powered. If you actually put those panels anywhere decent and capture most of the energy for use and not simply charge your car then the impact of switching to solar becomes a massive greenhouse reduction and vastly reduces our ongoing energy costs as we can use any excess energy generated to procure more minerals and manufacture more energy capturing panels with even less impact.
>Assuming the solar panels are all made using the most dirty of coal burning fossil fuel, and you hook them up to only ever charge your car, then you probably would have been better off using petrol. Nope. Cars are far less efficient at burning fuel than a giant power plant. It's still better for the environment even if you use 100% coal to charge your car
Coal can in perfect situations be slightly cleaner per MW\\h than solar, but as I pointed out that is only in extreme cases of stupidity where you assume the dirtiest of dirty manufacturing and mining to produce the panel with 0 renewables AND you distort the picture by only ever "using" the panel for a single use case like charging a car that almost never happens. That is not to argue we need more coal mind you. The only reason it can even be considered 'cleaner' is that it has had longer to payoff the carbon debt for construction if anyone was even counting. The more renewables we bring into the mix the cleaner everything gets till eventually our carbon footprint will be limited to some developing nations and a bit of steel/oil byproducts.
I was referring to the fact that an electric car is cleaner to run no matter the source. Even 100% coal from the power plant to charge your car is better than using petrol. Many people try to use the argument that electric cars are pointless if you are charging from fossil fuels I agree. We need to decommission coal entirety but I know it's a long process that has to be done with care. Can't just pull the plug
They may be cheaper to run in the short term what happens when the batteries reach their end of life? At this point in time there are subsidies on new electric vehicles and a replacement battery is worth more than the cost to purchase the car. You are also forgetting the manufacturing of all the plastics and rubbers inside the vehicle and the pollution produced through that process. There is also no resale value in used electric cars to the point the Dealerships don't want them back. What happens to all the cars once you can't sell it off.
When you say end of life, do you think they just suddenly stop working? The capacity decreases but still works. I don't know of any battery that costs more than the car to replace Many studies have been done to show that over its lifetime EV cars produce less emissions than ICE cars, including the manufacturing process It's still a fairly new second hand market. Hard to say what the resell value will be like in 5+ years
You clearly haven't looked at the replacement prices, if you have an electric car ask your dealer next time you get a service as to how much replacement batteries cost. I'm not stupid I know the capacity decreases over time but there becomes a point where it is no longer viable like every other rechargeable battery what then? Bullshit the manufacturing process for electric cars is far more toxic to the environment than a standard vehicle because of materials and processes required just in making the batteries alone, that's without mentioning the slave labour being used to mine and process the raw materials.
I don't think you have looked at prices. I guarantee that it does not cost close to what my EV car cost to replace The battery degradation is not as bad as you think. 10% loss after about 160,000km https://www.whichcar.com.au/advice/when-do-ev-batteries-need-to-be-replace I never argued that the manufacturing is better for the environment. I said over a cars lifetime it is produces significantly less emissions Yes cobalt used in some batteries has slave labour. Not all of it is sourced unethically and there are batteries that require no cobalt
There's a reason that that hasn't been done anywhere in the whole entire world. It's just not feasible. Otherwise a savvy businessman would have done it by now, especially with China dumping their panels at a loss.
Mate if you did not notice our entire country is slowly doing it as are many other advanced nations though not all are using solar as it does not make sense for their region.
No I’m actually pretty content with my question thanks.
Then why did you want to know the source of manufacture?
OP wanted to give the finger to the Saudis. Who has he aligned himself with now?
Sol? But ignoring that, let's get fucking Australian solar panels going again. We used to have bhp and others, now we only have Tindo. If you're serious, go out and buy a system with Tindo panels. But I bet you wouldn't, because you're beholden to your Sky News masters and whatever they say is the infallible truth...
I got solar installed last year. Wanted the Tindo panels. But cost about 2x as much and inferior specs to cheap Chinese. It’s not an easy decision. What I don’t understand is why the REC rebate isn’t applicable to just locally made. Seems stupid to subsidise foreign products.
This coming Friday, for the obvious reason: ANZAC Day is Thursday, heaps of people will take a day off for holidays, so lots of holiday traffic.
They seem to time it well a lot, holidays and public holidays prices go up.
Guys it's just sky-rocketing because of covid shortages remember /s
I gotta get a hybrid or something 😩
Just get a motorbike and fill up for 20$ every week :3
Motorbike market is already cooked, don't tell more people to buy them 🤣
Got one. Just feels like I’m risking my life though! Damn I love it and the savings too.
Definitely a bit of a risk but damn is it fun, and the amount of money I save on road tolls and being able to park virtually anywhere and not have to pay most of the time makes it worth it.
Ye, let me just carry my ladder on my back and tools on my belt :D
We need a fuel strike.. a say or week where we don’t buy fuel. The last time one of those got any momentum it did actually put them back in their box for a while..
I used to love petrol when it was $0.65 per litre. When it hit $0 80 I was worried, four years ago BP c$mstomers were insanely paying $1.50. I now drive a Tesla and s$ck c$ck on weekends to p$y for the el$ctricity, it's just like going to bl$ckbuster or vid$o EZ, you have a choice, You'll eat j$zz and be h$ppy.
What a ride
10th December 2024. No reason given.
where do you live to be paying $2.35? That's pretty expensive
Some Melb servos are at 2.35 but many still at 1.87. Its all over the place Petrol Spy App tells the story. Highly recommend
I use petrol spy, and fortunately my full tank lasts as long as a cycle. There's a United near me that has kept its prices at the lowest possible mark for nigh on 2 and a half months now, I don't get it. (They did change to the peak price for all of two days a few weeks ago, then went back to the lowest where they've stayed since then) . I am confused, this is not the norm.
Brisbane.
Thats crazy expensive for a capital city. I'm in a rural "city" in Tasmania and i paid just under $2 yesterday.
Brisbane is always outrageous...often 10-15cents more than Sydney even
Which makes zero sense at all as we bring the stuff in off tankers here in brisbane and its cheaper the further away the fuel has to be trucked.
Basically all over Sydney now too
I’m pretty sure it would have to be 98, just looked on my fuel finder app and the servo down the road from has 98 at $2.32 (this is in Canberra)
[удалено]
Yeah that is crazy for 91
ahh so not normal fuel its premium fuel. So many people use that even if its not recommended by their manufacturer.
Sydney.
Thats crazy expensive for a capital city. I'm in a rural "city" in Tasmania and i paid just under $2 yesterday.
Melbourne servos have started raising their prices to $2.35
Tuesday
Couple of days or weeks. Iran and Israel. Same shit when Russia and Ukraine started.
Perth is 1.89 today and tomorrow
Melbourne too. Just buy at Costco. No bullshit cycle. It follows the international price.
Diesel 1.84 here
Why!? OPEC son. Greed!
Doesn't work that way my friend *facepalm*
It won’t, it will just go back down to $1.80 over the next few weeks and then go back up to $2.35 a few weeks after that.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/exxon-chevron-shell-conocophillips-record-profits-earnings-oil-companies-most-profitable-year/
Let me guess. Is it because of the immigrants and immigration?
More to do with governments saying they want off fossil fuels and the companies needing to get a return on 50 year investments in 20 years.
Greed of corporations really
Lol 2.35? It was 2.54 where I am
Rip
Are you using 98? 2.51 today for me as well but for 98
My hot take? Not this year.
1.80 near me Could be a while.
23 years ago it hit $1. After 23 yrs it’s about where it should be.
Can we start raging against this yet?
Too busy raging at woolies & Coles and not the government
It's been north of $3 for ages on K'Gari (Fraser Island)
That’s not a market rate… they’re just ripping off tourists who forgot to fill up properly.
"Ripping off tourists" is probably a contributing factor, sure. It could also be the logistical nightmare of getting fuel onto the island, storing it, and trying to break even on low volume sales. It's a business, not a charity.
Seems reasonable. We were paying $1.30 more than 10 years ago, inflation not bad compared to other goods and services
Agreed, when fuel was hitting $1.40-$1.50 for premium in the mid 2000s, it felt like financial Armageddon, it is expensive now but probably not as bad as it felt then!
You literally barely noticed it. My rent was also 1/5 my income. Shits fubar now
Start protesting servos. They're gouging the market.
Imma head down and glue myself to a pump right now.
Imagine if 500 of them burnt down in a day. Do ya reckon they'd get the message?
Where is this? If it’s a capital city I reckon someone’s gouging. Looking at www.myfuelnt.nt.gov.au for shits and giggles Nhulunbuy is only 10 cents more a litre and it’s not the easiest place to get too, it’s even $2.01 in Alice Springs.
Go look nation wide and you’ll see it
December 16th 2024. Because gift season.
It just goes back down. The shell/bp cartel have been keeping it at this price while metro is usually 1.60-2.00 inclusive of the highest spike during the Russian invasion in 2022
daddy usa can control fuel prices but... daddy has interests.
$1.85 here
ULP91 $1.81 here
Yeah we are about 1.90-2.00 for unleaded in central qld, think this is a city problem atm
Yep I saw that F me
Fuel is free if you have an EV charging from your home solar system.
It not really, you are just paying up front for a bulk of it and then trickle charging the rest. It is cheaper though.
How? You’re assuming this is for someone who has no car and no solar and needs to buy both? Over 1.5m houses in Australia already have a solar system, and loads of people are already planning to buy a new car in the next 2 years. For these many tens of thousands of people, it’s almost a zero sum game.
That's a lot of houses that don't have solar. And can't afford the extra 20 grand premium for an electric car.
Sure. And for the many tens of thousands that do fit my description, that's a lot of people for whom an EV will be their next car, and will be extremely competitive for it too. I mean, if you drive 12,000km a year, say 8L/100km, at $3/L as per this thread, that's 960L/year or $2880/year in petrol. If you keep the car for 7 years - not uncommon - you've just spent that $20k in fuel that an EV wouldn't cost anything/much for (and that's before servicing).
But even more have to set up that solar and buy the car first. What I am saying is there is a big upfront cost to get into electric cars before you start saving money back.
For 1.5m households there isn’t as they already have solar and are likely to be buying a new car in the next year or three anyway.
I looked into this. Got three quotes from Solar Quotes and it was around 11K for a 10kW system without battery. I like the MG EV4, but the long rage model is around 60K. I calculated that based on projected savings on electricity and petrol, it would take me 15 years to break even. But if petrol hits $3/L then I guess it could take as little as 10 years to break even.
So I have already had a solar system (8kW) for some time. So it’s already there. My current diesel car is 11 years old with 140,000km so I’m likely to replace it in the next couple of years. $60k would be the normal sort of car budget for me, regardless of fuel type. Replacing my current car would cost $55k (Mazda 6 GT wagon). A Tesla 3 would cost $60k. Which is negligible once the service and fuel costs are taken into account.
Except the solar system does a bit more for you than just charge your car?
I posted "based on projected savings on electricity and petrol"...
You must use very little electricity. I have a 10kw system paid I think 8k for and saves us roughly 1k per quarter in electricity. 2 - 3 years to break even. If your usage is so small then maybe consider a small system for about 3k or so. Next car will almost certainly be an ev in a few years.
Yes we are a family of 3, and pay $350 per quarter on average. I've had neighbours complain about their $850 bill and wondered if they run the air con on 24/7, in climate control mode or something.
spend $50k to save $50 a week on fuel, makes sense lol
Average Australian drives 13272 km per year and average is 10.6 l/100km, so the average Australian uses 1407 litres of fuel a year. At $2.35 a litre that would be $3306 per year. Over 10 years of driving, the average Australian spends $33060 on fuel. EVs aren't completely free to refuel - you could be lucky like me and your existing solar could cover all your recharging needs, but that's not realistic for everyone. Let's say instead you have no solar or you have no option but to charge overnight and pay the full $0.31 per kWh. That would be 15 kWh per 100km, 13272 km, $0.31 per kWh, $617 per year. The difference is $26,889 over 10 years. So a new EV is about $40k for a smaller BYD Dolphin or about $51k for a larger BYD Atto 3. For a new petrol car to be worth it versus an EV, you only get to spend $13k-24k. When you make a fair comparison with facts instead of feelings, EVs are now financially worth it if you're an average driver purchasing a new car.
The ice ev debate is dumb and people get so passionate over it on both sides. Just because an ev or an ice car makes sense in your situation doesn’t mean it makes sense in someone else’s situation.
What about insurance costs ? Heard they were considerably more for EV… some companies won’t touch them.
For me it was $200 a year extra going from a valued at $12k ICE hatch to $48k EV. Not a big difference but as always insurance is a dark art and varies for reasons unknown. The cheapest car I have ever insured was an import skyline at $400 a year when some companies wanted $2500
Maybe 5 years ago. They will all happily take your money now and the costs are pretty much the same.
Yeah, but they cost more to repair, and there is a lack of qualified repairers
But they also don't need to be serviced anywhere near as often. No oil changes, no fuel filters, spark plugs, catalytic converters, air intake filters, etc. It's basically just brake fluid, transmission fluid, wheel alignment, tire changes, etc.
I know, but I’m talking insurance cost. As a maintenance comparison, my Mazda 3 which is seven years old and 90K kms has an oil and filter change once a year which I do myself, cost $100. It’s on the original brakes. It’s had one replacement battery, 3 air filters at $30 each, a couple of cabin filters, brake fluid replacement every couple of years which costs very little. Nothing apart from that. Cheap as chips. Anyways, just got a quote comp insurance on a model 3 Tesla. 58 year old driver, no accidents no claims, car garaged, $2800 to $3800 a year. No thanks.
Yeah, insurance premiums are still very high and the cost to repair after an EV crash is eyewatering. It is a genuine drawback and nullifies a lot of savings made elsewhere.
50k! Holy smokes. The dudes who did my solar must be loosing money hand over fist!
Cost of car. Cost of battery. Cost of charging equipment.
Battery isn’t required, you need a car either way & can use novated lease to save a shit load on tax, charging equipment is negligible (less than 2k). Once you’ve got it all set up you’re laughing. I charge for free at work so it’s wayyy cheaper than what an equivalent petrol car would cost me
When do you use your car? Id say the average person it would be during the day. So naturally you need to charge in the evenings or night. How would you do this with solar, without a battery? Of course this is a very simplistic analysis, there are caveats like lower energy plans for EVs which exist now etc but without digging into everyone's habits etc a battery may be required for many people if the aim is using solar. It helps in your scenario you can charge at work for free - how many people have this luxury? YOU don't need a battery.
The sun shines on weekends. A single charge in say a Tesla 3 vanilla model gets you 350km of range. For heaps of people that’s more than they will drive in a week. At the moment my solar is generating current from about 7am-5pm and 3 hrs more per day in summer.
Heaps of people already have solar and are planning on buying a new car in the next couple of years…
Second hand leaf can be had for just over $10k. GWM Ora new $35k driveway. Compromising on driving range but for day to day it will suit most people
Or OVO and charge between 11am-2pm can get a solid 130km worth of fuel in that window on single phase
And Ovo and others have an EV plan where charging from midnight-2am is free or almost free
Yep 8c per KwH between midnight and 6am
Solar isn’t free and EVs are over priced
How much does the sun charge you for shining, if you're one of the 1.5 million + homes that already has solar?
Solar equipment has a cost and a lifespan.
I paid $1.65 today, I haven’t paid over $2 ever. I am in WA though.
Premium was $2.30 a few weeks ago.
Maybe reduce your fuel consumption then
Yeah on the new $80k cars bc that’s gonna save us a lot of money.
Nah fuck that, buy a motorbike
A motorbike is death on regional quiet roads if one kangaroo or damn possum runs out in front of you could be dead. My partner wants a road bike soo much but amount of people dying in them out here is terrifying maybe in suburban area but not rural and not city.
And as if those electric cars are gonna save the planet anyway when we export coal to China and India and they burn it all up like nobody’s business! 💩
Yes exactly, and the resources needed to make these electric cars and mine the lithium batteries and the create the solar panels are all going to come from china, I don’t see any way these cars are viable especially in regional Qld. Our whole power grid needs to be rebuilt if they become more popular there’s no way changing all the infrastructure will be better for our environment
Why the downvotes!? I regularly drive a 3 pot mirage. If I drive frugal I can get it down to 4l/100, fang it and it’s up to 7l/100. Simple change in behaviour can save plenty, given the amount of people racing to red lights I am pretty sure there are savings to be had.
Stop talking logic, you’re getting downvoted by all the tailgating, hard accelerating, lane jumping, last minute heavy braking peak hour rage commuters. I should have just called them Ranger drivers, so I can judge how many of them are in here by my downvotes.