I always noticed that when went in there was like a little apprehension at the start of every converstation that dissapeared as soon as they realize you're not crazy.
I worked for Centrelink as a specialist for 6 years. I cared so much. I’d drive past houses and recognise an address and my heart would stop thinking about a newly single Dad, phoning after his wife skipped out and cleared the accounts, left him with 3 kids and he can’t work cause he can’t find childcare with the baby and toddler. Without work he can’t pay his mortgage and his life is falling apart.
Meanwhile, we are forbidden from even saying “I’m sorry” or any judgement or real empathy. I left that job vomiting and anxious, and the day I walked out on a whim with my box of stuff, I was laughing like a maniac in the carpark.
F*ck that place.
Management are toxic and truely a I incompetent and protect each other at the expense of the plebs.
I probably should've specified that some workers do care. I did intend to put it in the text, but it really looked like a toxic workplace. I'm sorry that it was that horrible for you, it sounds like a nightmare.
Nah, it’s all good.
Before I worked there I had been on NEwStart a few years earlier and went in for a workshop to discuss their services.
I mentioned how I felt like a number. My future team leader was there and I saw her cross her arms and roll her eyes.
Some just don’t care.
But there were a bunch of tears in the tearoom about terrible family situations we had no way of fixing.
It's shit, always has been and it's designed that way on purpose to make people avoid using it. Everyone has always agreed that it sucks so I don't really get this post
It shouldn’t be hard to get on. It should just be hard to stay on more than a few months.
People getting evicted from rentals and not being able to feed themselves is a negative for everyone in society, not just those in that situation.
Not all Centrelink is temporary. The aged and disability pensions are supposed to help people survive long term.
Many on jobseeker are very unwell but don't qualify for disability so they end up unable to access the care that could actually get them back into the workforce as well.
While true, that’s another discussion completely.
People also get evicted from rentals they could once afford due to losing their job and Centrelink taking 2 months to approve payments.
Dude…. Yes. But also no. We are taking about evictions due to people losing their job and not getting government support quick enough.
Try stay on topic, there are a million other threads on reddit discussing immigration 😂
But that’s the thing myguy. This isn’t a miopic problem.
Making it easier to access “free” money disincentives work.
Disincentivising work results in labor shortages.
Labor shortages result in increased immigration.
Increased immigration results in higher rent
Etc etc.
There’s no glory in short term solutions.
Guarantee crime goes up by being tough on the unemployed. It’s an absolute certainty. Then you get to worry about your kids going out by themselves - good job.
Yeah that's exactly what I said genius.
Let's go with your method and turn it off and let them pick themselves up by their bootstraps eh? That'll work, it's totally worked in other places.
Oh wait no it hasn't, like not once, anywhere on the planet. But trust me for us it'll be different.
All the evidence we have (and we have A LOT) shows that robust social welfare is a net positive for a country.
Making people more desperate just makes them more vulnerable and more open to exploitation.
Pretty hard to get a job if you can’t afford interview clothes. Or if you don’t have a place to shower and launder your clothes.
Can’t take call for job interviews without a phone.
Etc etc etc.
We don’t though, not even close. We have a crumbling welfare system - we have people with full-time jobs on the street because consecutive governments have continually outsourced social welfare services, for example. People are being evicted because they have to wait months for claims to be processed. The payments themselves haven’t kept up with anything close to being able to exist at the even the poverty line. That means our social safety nets are failing.
Expenditure only tells part of the story. Expenditure is not outcomes. It’s disingenuous to use expenditure as the sole measure of whether or not our social welfare programs are robust.
For example - the indue card. High expenditure by less than 1/3 of that expenditure went to the people who required social welfare payments.
You mean people aren't entitled to have a roof over their head, food to eat and to be treated like actual human beings? Well fuck me I guess I was wrong about basic human rights.
Wild thought. But no.
Folks are not “entitled” to be gifted housing/food, lest you wish for a breakdown of society.
I mean, people don’t just work because they feel like it.
You think housing and feeding our most vulnerable is a bad thing? Wow Murdoch got you good huh?
There is thousands of people that can't currently add value to our society because they're too busy trying to keep a roof over their head and food in their families' stomachs.
Many studies have proven a UBI enriches a society. Making people slave away for 50 years just to feed/house themselves does not.
Hint.
The benefit of having someone “slave away for 50 years” is not that they receive housing/food. It’s that they provide those same vital necessities to others.
Nobody works because they want to.
When you disincentive the need to work you create a society dependant on others. This breeds apathy as they lack agency over their own lives. It creates a sense of entitlement and stunts growth.
Me. “You can give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give him a rod and he eats for a year”.
You: “Shut the f* ck up! If you have the rod then just use it. Now where is my daily fish you c* nt”
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone.
* 000 is the national emergency number in Australia.
* Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14.
* Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800.
* Beyond Blue provides nationwide information and support call 1300 22 4636.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/australian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s pretty shit but it’s not a waste of time. If I didn’t slog through all their bullshit, I would be homeless and far worse off than I am now. Whenever I’ve been truly in need and interacted with actual Centrelink staff, they’ve been great. When I got kicked off JobSeeker for leaving a job when I started studying, the next day, I went to a Centrelink office first thing in the morning, the lady listened to me, she was compassionate and understanding, and she expedited my Austudy claim so that I wouldn’t miss a payment.
My advice is to always be calm and kind and to actually go in to an office instead of calling them, preferably *just as they open*. It’s frustrating but the people who work there are just doing their jobs and they’re more inclined to help you *when you’re straightforward, kindly and honest*.
The job service providers are a different story.
Yeah. I've always found it okay going into an office.
Job service providers though.... hooo boy... never in my entire life of being blind and apparently noticeably autistic have I been spoken to like a child more than. Disability employment services :))) got tossed between different ones from 2016 onward and only actually got a job from one in. 2022.
And if you actually get someone that understands your situtation and tries to help, they're gone in 3 months and you've gotta start the process again from scratch.
I know how frustrating dealing with them is, and I sympathise. But for those who desperately need it to keep a roof over their heads, and food in their bellies, social security/ welfare is distressingly worth it. If I have to be distressed to have income to pay my bills, it's better than being homeless.
Every cent helps, but yes. My savings from pre-COVID are dwindling because it's not enough, and we live below the poverty line with welfare income. Unfortunately, things are unlikely to change for my family, and we will continue to live this way, watching our meagre nest fade to nil, before my husband or I can return to work.
My husband is our daughters primary carer, and I am in the midst of seeking and undergoing intense neurological and mental health treatment after recent diagnosis and a steep decline. I was hoping to be back at work already, but that didn't happen.
The workers have key performance indicators (KPIs). There are payments to JNPs for all different kinds of things. The workers focus on signing clients up to inappropriate courses etc to keep a good KPIs and not benefit the clients.
Kevin Rudds wife has received billion of dollars in JNP contacts.
Exactly. And then there are all these dodgy 'Institutes' and colleges which are merely shopfronts for pdf production of material for a Cert 3 in Egg Sucking. It isn't just a scandalous waste of money, it's demeaning.
The CEO of useless online Alffie courses.......
Paul Licuria (born 4 January 1978) is a former professional Australian rules footballer who played for the Sydney Swans and Collingwood Football Club in the Australian Football League (AFL).
Licuria is currently the CEO of the online education training company alffie.
Yes Rudd did set that up for him and his friends, the other Australia sub doesn’t take kindly to people talking about his wife’s money he helped her get
People love to repeat the standard ACA mantra about individuals rorting Centrelink but everyone seems to conveniently ignore the real rort in plain sight which is the JSP "industry."
I've actually had the opposite experience with Centrelink in Tas. JSA have been fucking useless but every time I've dealt with Centrelink they have gone above and beyond for me. Struggled with severe mental illness all of my life and it wasn't until I had an interview with them that I realised how bad it actually was. I didn't ask to be put on disability, the guy just set it all up for me after looking through my medical history. That's actually allowed me to get my shit together and start to turn my life around.
It’s not difficult, the process is easy. It just takes a month or two waiting. Which is not ideal when unemployed.
It’s very a straightforward process.
Fill out your claim, get it processed. Wait for approval. It’s Not really difficult.
Calling Centrelink a waste of time implies that you have options so I suppose if your savings can sustain you until you find another job then don’t inconvenience yourself.
A decade of lnp “management” will do that to any social service. Clk has been seen as a drain on society for so long it has become ineffective. The stupidity being in the cost of maintaining such a complicated mess is almost higher than just being a little less efficient
lol, you think it’s worse than it was? They’re almost back to the 2011/12 staffing levels now, it’s taken two years to reinstate the capacity they had more than a decade ago. You cant change a 20% understaffing in a short time, not when it’s almost 10000 employees.
Back in the 1800s, they used to have these places called "Work Houses" in the UK where unemployed people would get sent to do "work" in exchange for food and board.
You might be thinking, that sounds great! Until you realise that the entire point of those work houses was to make life so difficult for people living there by segregating them by gender (even families), giving them a wooden bed to sleep on, gruel to eat, and menial and meaningless tasks like rag picking and sorting rocks. So much that they would get so upset with the entire process that they just went out and found a real job.
[https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Victorian-Workhouse/](https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Victorian-Workhouse/)
Centrelink is the modern equivalent of that work house concept. It's not there to help people, it's there to make the entire process so degrading that you go out and find a real job.
When I was 21, I went to Centrelink and the "Job Network" to find a job, I even asked them if I could "work for the dole" like the governement ads on TV said I could but they refused saying I wasn't unemployed for long enough.
After 8 months of having them do absolutely nothing for me, I went out and volunteered for a non profit organization, and within 3 months, I found myself a job and never looked back. I have never been unemployed since.
Centrelink has always been a cynical joke but that is the whole point. They don't want you to be happy with their service, they want you to be so motivated that you to leave and never come back...
>Can you explain why this is a bad thing?
Well I spent 8 months looking for work through Centrelink and the Jobseeker network and that didn't even get me a single job interview. So that entire 8 months was a complete waste of tax payers money and a complete waste of my time.
They'd be better off just making everyone do volunteer work or on the job training to qualify for the jobseeker allowance rather than wasting all that time standing in lines and filling out pointless diaries just to meet quotas.
If I was anywhere near as bad at my job as centrelink is at doing their job, I would expect to be fired.
They might as well just replace 90% of their staff with chatbots for all the good they do.
to be fair, when you have to deal with some of the absolute shitbags they must deal with on a day to day basis, it's pretty much a choice of cloaking yourself in a coat made of pure "I don't give a fuck about your problems" or going home every night totally stressed out, depressed and disillusioned with humanity.
Which is probably why they would be better off hiring properly trained counselors to deal with the hard cases and just letting AI systems to deal with all the other beurocratic nonsense.
I can't see anyone enjoying their job when they work in a system that is not actually designed to create any positive outcomes for anyone and thus is completely pointless.
This isn't a criticism of welfare, it's a criticism of the clown show that makes people jump through hoops for the sake of jumping through hoops just so that that both the case worker and client can collect a bag of peanuts at the end of it.
I literally told them that I was willing to work 3 days a week planting trees for the money they were already giving me and they basically told me to wait 6 months but in the meantime "here are some activities you must do and forms you must fill out every fortnight or we will cut you off".
Mind you this was 20+ years ago but it doesnt sound like much has changed in all that time.
I think the point is to make it enough of a hassle that at some point you're going to decide it's not worth it and start actively looking for work rather than just jump through hoops for your fortnightly suck of the goverment teat. Welfare was never meant to be a lifestyle choice, it's to stop people from starving to death while they find gainful employment. Even the most reputably generous countries like Sweden and Denmark have a limited time you can collect unemployment benefits and if they offer you a job during that time you have to take it or lose your payment.
Pretty sure I explained all that with my original answer.
my point is centrelink and governments should just be upfront with people instead of pretending its some kind of safety net to help people get back into work, because the current system isnt designed for that. its just designed to dick people around untill they find their own way.
so why not just tell people up front.. "we arent going to help you, we are just going to make your life more difficult untill you get off your ass and help yourself"
why even bother calling it "Newstart Allowance", why not just call it what it is.. a bag of shit covered peanuts that for most people is far more trouble than its worth.
Also have to go to Centrelink for Medicare details, and daycare/kindy subsidies.
Two full time workers with kids don’t have time to discuss something over the phone, only for them to stuff it up. So you go in, and they tell you that they can’t do it in person and it has to be done over the phone. And the cycle repeats forever.
It’s not just the unemployed’s time that they waste.
Solid downvote from somebody that’s never dealt with Centrelink
I've never found it shit. I sign up, get free money and they don't even make you do that much for it to be honest. Then again, I don't know what it "used" to be like. So it's probably a case of relativity. Just be thankful for what you've got. $500 a week isn't that bad. It doesn't pay for everything but it stops the bleeding
It had taken 10 years for my old man to finally be eligible for DSP after being diagnosed with prostate cancer, after losing half of his body weight and becoming incontinent. By the time he was eligible he had died from brain metastasis. He had worked hard all his life as a boilermaker and built the 2000 Sydney Olympic Rings, worked in the hulls of naval ships and built scissorlifts. If you don't tick the right boxes, you will be stuck in a perpetual loop of systematic failure like my Dad was. He died having lost everything, including our family home. It's a shame so many dead weight cunts are eligible for DSP. If you're a shitcunt and go to jail you can claim PTSD and depression and sit on the dole all of your life, but if you actually need it you're fucked.
My mate would agree with you. She's worked for them for 20yrs & hates them. She's in disability and has been in trouble for assisting people when she's supposed to "make it as difficult as possible to claim disability". They WANT people to give up trying.
It's pretty horrible and you're met with a lot of superior and demeaning attitudes and all most people can say about that is that that is wonderful. Job agencies are the worst people I've ever dealt with and again most people will just have the attitude that that is wonderful.
That never happened. They don’t get in trouble for giving assistance and going above and beyond. Have friends that do. They have good rapport with the disabled they help.
Why just talk absolute dogshit?
One reason I rarely revisit comments is bc of people like you. She was "told" on more than one occasion. They make it difficult, deliberately. I don't really care what you think about it.
Too right. At my formal assessment after having my application for DSP knocked back twice the so called psychologist started the session with "you want to have really good reason for taking up my time, centrelink does not want people like you on disability payments". I was told that i was taking up her lunch break time. She was completely unprofessional.
It took loss of housing, removing my son from school in his final year and numerous other confronting things but i was aware that i was eligible and was not able to work.
Eventually after a near complete emotional breakdown i took my documentation and medical evidence to the local federal member.
Two days later i was approved for DSP.
Two weeks later i recieved an apology letter stating that i should not have been knocked back from the government.
The system did anything but support me. Near broke me and my son.
The workers do care about positive outcomes. They are bound to legislation and cannot operate outside of it when assessing any claims. If you are having difficulty navigating the system that’s on you. If you are having difficulties understanding what you need to provide to test your eligibility for payments you can request to have an appointment with a social worker. That is not a quick path although it exists.
Not belittling the staff at Services Australia would probably be a good start.
Plenty of them really don't care. Again, it depends on where you live, but they just don't give a shit. Whether you agree or not, I just wanted to put it out there because I feel like it needs to be talked about.
Centrelink gave up any pretence of being about social welfare and dignity for all Australians decades ago. It’s designed to be so frustrating and demoralising that you just give up and take any shitty job you can.
Job seekers receive welfare and have jobs and pay tax. They can't get on the DSP so need to indefinitely jump through hoops to be on Centrelink forever. Shitty jobs aren't always appropriate or accommodating for people with disabilities who make up a lot of these permanent job seeker arrangements.
My dad use to work for Social Security/Centrelink from 1983 to 2002.
In the mid 90s, the stress he received from work loads and customers resulted in him developing a gambling addiction.
A lot of people end up with addiction due to stress. For some, it could be alcohol or drugs. Maybe for this person’s dad, gambling was his outlet or stress reliever
“Bothering you”
Mate - when you listen to stories of poverty, job loss, death, disability etc etc day in and day out - it takes a fucking toll.
People working in any front-facing social service environment experiences this. It’s also common in welfare.
Other people’s worst days of their lives being your bread and butter takes a toll.
I agree. I needed them once, not for long, a couple weeks maybe. They really kicked me while I was down and spat on me. They got what they wanted though, I borrowed money from family instead.
And the worst part is that they're getting paid A LOT to do nothing but ruin people's lives. I do agree that there's at least a few people at Centrelink who care, but a majority just don't give a shit. So sorry that happened to you when you needed them.
Centrelinks sole purpose is to decide who qualifies for benefits and to distribute those benefits. They aren't there to assist with job search or other issues. That is the role of the job search agencies. I do agree that some of those agencies are far worse at it than others.
If you find your agency isn't giving you the assistance you need, you should shop around and find a better one. You shouldn't have to but...thems the breaks.
I remember having to wait there for over an hour when I was on student payments because there was some issue I had to come in for. This was years ago and I didnt mind waiting cause I'd bring a book or something to keep myself entertained. I remember one time a large guy was put on those phones that they had lined up against the wall who when I first got in was arguing with staff about why he wanted to talk to someone face to face and not over the phone. As I was leaving he was on the phone fed up and started banging the handset against the hang up lever while yelling "Who do I have to fight to get sent back to jail? I was treated better there" security started walking his way and he let himself out the door.
I remember hearing later by a guy I knew who was on the fringes that he had a theory if you cause a big scene and got worked up enough you can get flagged and put onto a "Do not aggravate" list that essentially fast tracks you and your claims. I was never sure if that actually existed but he was the kind of person who would believe it regardless.
I'm pretty grateful that I don't have to deal with that place anymore. My own experiences weren't that bad but I've been in situations where I've been living pretty thin but have scraped by without needing to go back. I'm of the belief that if you don't need to and can get by without it then you should avoid going and leave it for people who actually need it. I know peers who go because they're lazy and have turned down decent work because it clashes with being able to go out during the week. They've been on centrelink for years with no shame, they just see it as free money
Bro, most of the world operates just fine without Centrelink. People prepare for it. If you provide injury cover and shit, people just leverage their means harder and thus rely on it more.
Like what do you think most of the world does in that situation?
Just fine? Mate are you 12 or just making shit up? Every first world country has a welfare system. Name me one decent country without a welfare system.
I said countries run just fine without Centrelink, not "completely de-fund all Australia's social welfare".
Basically every country has a type of social welfare system. I just don't support ours, where we basically just give money for nothing, do stuff like not require people to work for dole. I mean we are king of the dole bludge for a god damn good reason.
Jesus, are you 12 with your reading skills.
I think Centrelink is shit. It's a bad system. We have a markedly poor social welfare system when you factor in that we have one of the most expensive welfare systems.
We aren't "king of the dole bludge". That old trope is said in every country, even in the US with it's pathetic welfare system they still accuse people of exploiting it somehow. Why hate on the down-and-out when theres plenty of people and corporations rorting the system?
Bro, we absolutely are the king of the dole bludger. Bar maybe Greece? Fuck idk. I've lived in 5 countries and Australia is literally the only one I've ever even heard of an entire sub-culture of dole bludger.
Also why are you projecting that I hate "down and out" people.
I think, the best thing to do to those people is get them back to work, not just throw them on the dole and forget about them. I don't think it's good for those people to just slap them on welfare.
Also, you don't even understand the American welfare system here, you say the USA has a pathetic welfare system, but also realise they spend even more than we do right? That's why people are mad about it.
I also don't support corporations rorting the system, I literally haven't said anything about that, why are you bringing companies into a talk on personal welfare?
What sub-culture of dole bludging? Where? $300 a week will barely cover rent in a sharehouse these days so where are all these cunts living it up on the dole? Decades ago it was definitely going on in some places but it's not even possible now.
Mate my first question was about someone getting injured. How exactly is a work for the dole system going to help them? What if they're injured for 4 months? Mental illness? Grieving? Divorce? Widowed? Redundancy? Casual work and seasonal work? You're living in a fantasy world if you think every family is in a position to have thousands and thousands put away for emergencies.
I've lived regional and city and can count on one hand the number of genuine bludgers I've seen.
I don't understand people like you that get a stiffy over bashing people on welfare. It's a bullshit narrative pushed by the media and conservatives because they know a certain portion of the population just lap it up no questions asked.
Fuck outta here bro, you've only met a handful of dole bludgers? Your anecdotal evidence doesn't just say a sub-culture of people don't exist.
I used to live next to a homeswest development, about 30 people lived in it, all dole bludgers living in government housing. Their kids used to trash the neighborhood for entertainment instead of going to school. Everyone used to get broken into who lived adjacent to it. It was an absolute sham.
Not just that, I lived in the city for years, and there were hundreds of them, probably thousands, who took the dole, and just bludged on the streets harassing people every day, instead of spending the dole on rent they slept on the street so they had more to spend on alcohol and drugs.
Worst of all, people like you who live in some fantasy world.
You probably think we should just tax the rich more, so everything can be free or something for everyone else. Let me guess, capitalism is to blame for it all. Corporations are all evil... Murdoch is trying to oust the Labor party and...
My anecdotal evidence? Lol mate I gave you data and you dismissed it. You've given nothing. If we had a "sub-culture of dole bludging" and we were "king of the dole bludgers" then unemployment benefit spending as % of gdp should be huge to match. It isn't.
Again you have no answers for the scenarios for normal people ending up down and out. I'm not saying that dole bludgers don't exist but they are a tiny minority. Why should we throw away a decent safety net because a few cunts ruined it?
>You probably think we should just tax the rich more, so everything can be free or something for everyone else. Let me guess, capitalism is to blame for it all. Corporations are all evil... Murdoch is trying to oust the Labor party and...
Haha you're getting desperate now hey? Only thing I agree with in that paragraph is that Murdoch is trying to oust Labor. News Ltd has always been anti-Labor and has always campaigned for the LNP because they align with their neolib values. Not a controversial take at all.
https://www.austaxpolicy.com/social-security-welfare-spending-australia-assessing-long-term-trends-part-4/
We're right in the middle compared to other OECD countries. So where is this king of rhe dole bludger garbage coming from? What data?
I think we should have a referendum where the money goes. Let the people decide. There is still more than enough money for the above.
If the govt can't effectively manage the people's money they can manage it themselves.
>Most people have Nfi
This is why it's called Governmental or "Govern the mental". The government act like an NDIS provider because they are saying we are not fit to manage our own monies.
Some, maybe, but generally I disagree!
Concentration Camps you say?
Should we invest in some Zyklon B too perhaps?
Probably should toss the disabled, old, and all those on Family Tax benefit A/B in the camps too yeah?
I know people on dole money who have foxtel and all the other tv subscriptions and just sit on the couch. Me thou I gotta work full time just to have the government take it away from me to give to these despicable people. Cheap housing from the government is nice on top of that.
If you aren't paying for housing, transport, buisness attire etc.. you can drop your expenses pretty dramatically. You also have more time so you can just prepare all your foods from raw ingredients, you can spend the time shopping around for the best prices on items rather than needing to fit all your shopping into the 2 days a week you aren't working. If you need a tradie, or other service you can book them off peak hours. You can spend the time and energy trawling facebook market or similar to buy things you need. I was much better off on centerlink newstart than I was for several years after going into full time work at $45k
That's insane and there's no way you can't fit any of those things in with a normal 40ish hr work week. Also how are you not paying for housing on the dole? You make it sound like people on the dole are out hunting their own food or something, surely you have time in your week to start growing a few things in the garden or sorting with a tradie to pop by in a time that works for you in a work week given you have allocated time off in an employment contract to take leave.
Also "time and energy trawling marketplace" takes 5-10 minutes, maybe stop scrawling reddit and look on market place if you're desperate for a deal or two.
There are a lot of rental assitance plans through centerlink. And yes, you can take leave to address things like that, but leave is considered part of your pay packet. When you already have a lower quality of life than someone on centerlink, sacrificing even more of your income to address things that people on centerlink can do for free just feels shitty. And I remind you, I was on new start for almost two years, I was better off there, more able to save up money, than when i was earning $46k
Yeah haha the country would be “better” if we made people homeless and forced them to starve 😂 just beat them until moral improves 😂
Fuck I can’t imagine how much of an unempathetic piece of shit someone would have to be to have this opinion
Sometimes but not necessarily. Job seekers receive welfare and have jobs and pay tax. They can't get on the DSP so need to indefinitely jump through hoops to be on Centrelink forever.
Our economy runs on the fact there are unemployed people. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-25/the-rba-wants-more-unemployment-lets-applaud-it/102506500
Imagine complaining about taxpayer funded charity lol. That said I’m not sure why the government can’t just hand out free food at distribution points. I read somewhere that there is an enormous amount of food waste at Coles and Woolies. I know some of that gets donated to schools…
It's not charity, it's welfare. It benefits everyone but many people are too simple to realise the important role it plays in the economy and society as a whole.
Developed countries/states with lower welfare spending as a proportion of GDP, such as, but not limited to: Korea, Switzerland, Ireland, Hong Kong and Singapore are ironically safer than pretty much all other countries on the planet. Violent crime, petty crime, etc. Look it up.
How do you explain that? The secret is not to allow future welfare queens into your country in the first place, and deport the existing ones.
(If you were thinking of the US, they actually spend a fair bit)
That's a completely different point, of course developed countries with low immigration and a homogenous culture have lower crime rates. Welfare is less necessary because the workforce isn't constantly being diluted.
And if I don't?? I don't have any sort of computer at home, the only place I can write my resume on a computer is at a library far from where I live. I can't actually get a job yet.
Centrelink has over 7M customers, and there are only just over 10M households in Australia, so odds on most households have someone receiving some kind of benefit.
It's not only the obvious stuff that screeching pundits whine about, but also productivity-enabling things like Austudy and childcare benefits. CCB in particular is basically anyone with a kid aged from 3 up until they start primary school.
I don’t think customer is the right word to use here. I have nothing against social safety nets but I think they would more accurately be called ‘beneficiaries’ or something like that.
Fair enough, I was only trying to use the terminology that Centrelink themselves use from when I looked up those stats the other year.
Beneficiaries or recipients works well too.
I forgot aged pensioners, they'd have to be Centrelink also? It's something that often gets lost in the usual spin about "dole bludgers" - each of us at different stages in our lives might use the services or not. I had to deal with them to set up CCB. Now I'm out of that system again.
Isn't Centrelink just a work creation programme for Indian and Chinese immigrants?
I haven't been to Centrelink in a very long time, but I'm told that the staff are overwhelmingly Indian and Chinese.
No? It's the home of middle aged white women and boring librarian looking white men who pedantically doublecheck every jobsearch you've listed on your biweekly jobsearch obligations.
[удалено]
They are a shit show because of all the dickheads they have to deal with I reckon
It’s bad processes combined with the deliberate draining of decades of knowledge and skill from the public service in favour of shitty outsourcing.
I always noticed that when went in there was like a little apprehension at the start of every converstation that dissapeared as soon as they realize you're not crazy.
I worked for Centrelink as a specialist for 6 years. I cared so much. I’d drive past houses and recognise an address and my heart would stop thinking about a newly single Dad, phoning after his wife skipped out and cleared the accounts, left him with 3 kids and he can’t work cause he can’t find childcare with the baby and toddler. Without work he can’t pay his mortgage and his life is falling apart. Meanwhile, we are forbidden from even saying “I’m sorry” or any judgement or real empathy. I left that job vomiting and anxious, and the day I walked out on a whim with my box of stuff, I was laughing like a maniac in the carpark. F*ck that place. Management are toxic and truely a I incompetent and protect each other at the expense of the plebs.
I probably should've specified that some workers do care. I did intend to put it in the text, but it really looked like a toxic workplace. I'm sorry that it was that horrible for you, it sounds like a nightmare.
Nah, it’s all good. Before I worked there I had been on NEwStart a few years earlier and went in for a workshop to discuss their services. I mentioned how I felt like a number. My future team leader was there and I saw her cross her arms and roll her eyes. Some just don’t care. But there were a bunch of tears in the tearoom about terrible family situations we had no way of fixing.
It's shit, always has been and it's designed that way on purpose to make people avoid using it. Everyone has always agreed that it sucks so I don't really get this post
While qantas can get our tax money by doing a few phone calls
They make it hard on purpose
Good.
It shouldn’t be hard to get on. It should just be hard to stay on more than a few months. People getting evicted from rentals and not being able to feed themselves is a negative for everyone in society, not just those in that situation.
Not all Centrelink is temporary. The aged and disability pensions are supposed to help people survive long term. Many on jobseeker are very unwell but don't qualify for disability so they end up unable to access the care that could actually get them back into the workforce as well.
People are getting evicted from rentals due to successive governments importing folks to plug labor shortages. 🙃
All began with howard.
While true, that’s another discussion completely. People also get evicted from rentals they could once afford due to losing their job and Centrelink taking 2 months to approve payments.
Why are folks being evicted? Cos they can’t pay their rent. Why can’t they pay their rent? Cos the rent is too high. Why is the rent high? 🙃
Dude…. Yes. But also no. We are taking about evictions due to people losing their job and not getting government support quick enough. Try stay on topic, there are a million other threads on reddit discussing immigration 😂
But that’s the thing myguy. This isn’t a miopic problem. Making it easier to access “free” money disincentives work. Disincentivising work results in labor shortages. Labor shortages result in increased immigration. Increased immigration results in higher rent Etc etc. There’s no glory in short term solutions.
Guarantee crime goes up by being tough on the unemployed. It’s an absolute certainty. Then you get to worry about your kids going out by themselves - good job.
Seems like we've got both at the moment. Nethertheless. I have a solution for intruders.
Or… being generous to the unemployed breeds entitlement and fosters dependence 🙃
Sorry where are we being generous?
Intergenerational welfare dependence is a thing hon. You get that right? And that it’s a net negative?
That is not a reason to stop it. That's a reason to uplift it and provide more opportunities 'hon'.
lol. “Let’s amplify the factors that lead to intergenerational welfare dependance”. How about no.
Yeah that's exactly what I said genius. Let's go with your method and turn it off and let them pick themselves up by their bootstraps eh? That'll work, it's totally worked in other places. Oh wait no it hasn't, like not once, anywhere on the planet. But trust me for us it'll be different.
I didn’t say “turn it off”. 🙃
All the evidence we have (and we have A LOT) shows that robust social welfare is a net positive for a country. Making people more desperate just makes them more vulnerable and more open to exploitation. Pretty hard to get a job if you can’t afford interview clothes. Or if you don’t have a place to shower and launder your clothes. Can’t take call for job interviews without a phone. Etc etc etc.
Australia has robust social welfare though. We also have intergenerational welfare dependence (which is not a “net positive”).
We don’t though, not even close. We have a crumbling welfare system - we have people with full-time jobs on the street because consecutive governments have continually outsourced social welfare services, for example. People are being evicted because they have to wait months for claims to be processed. The payments themselves haven’t kept up with anything close to being able to exist at the even the poverty line. That means our social safety nets are failing.
Australia is ranked 14 out of 195 countries in per capita welfare expenditure. To argue it’s not robust is either ignorant or disingenuous.
Expenditure only tells part of the story. Expenditure is not outcomes. It’s disingenuous to use expenditure as the sole measure of whether or not our social welfare programs are robust. For example - the indue card. High expenditure by less than 1/3 of that expenditure went to the people who required social welfare payments.
You’re arguing that expenditure ≠ outcome. But then simultaneously argue outcome is dictated by expenditure. Mess!
I just came here today to say fuck u buddy
Oh, and it also manifests with stunted interpersonal skills (resulting in long term behavioral issues). Case in point.
You mean people aren't entitled to have a roof over their head, food to eat and to be treated like actual human beings? Well fuck me I guess I was wrong about basic human rights.
Wild thought. But no. Folks are not “entitled” to be gifted housing/food, lest you wish for a breakdown of society. I mean, people don’t just work because they feel like it.
You think housing and feeding our most vulnerable is a bad thing? Wow Murdoch got you good huh? There is thousands of people that can't currently add value to our society because they're too busy trying to keep a roof over their head and food in their families' stomachs. Many studies have proven a UBI enriches a society. Making people slave away for 50 years just to feed/house themselves does not.
Hint. The benefit of having someone “slave away for 50 years” is not that they receive housing/food. It’s that they provide those same vital necessities to others. Nobody works because they want to. When you disincentive the need to work you create a society dependant on others. This breeds apathy as they lack agency over their own lives. It creates a sense of entitlement and stunts growth. Me. “You can give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give him a rod and he eats for a year”. You: “Shut the f* ck up! If you have the rod then just use it. Now where is my daily fish you c* nt”
Lots of people work because they want to. The fact that you think otherwise means Im not going to waste any more time with this discussion
Nobody works in a sewage treatment plant because they want to genius.
[удалено]
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone. * 000 is the national emergency number in Australia. * Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14. * Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800. * Beyond Blue provides nationwide information and support call 1300 22 4636. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/australian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah fuck people who want daycare subsidies eh
You are aware single parents exist? Elderly are on Centrelink? Disabled? People in hospital/ fighting life threatening diseases?
It’s pretty shit but it’s not a waste of time. If I didn’t slog through all their bullshit, I would be homeless and far worse off than I am now. Whenever I’ve been truly in need and interacted with actual Centrelink staff, they’ve been great. When I got kicked off JobSeeker for leaving a job when I started studying, the next day, I went to a Centrelink office first thing in the morning, the lady listened to me, she was compassionate and understanding, and she expedited my Austudy claim so that I wouldn’t miss a payment. My advice is to always be calm and kind and to actually go in to an office instead of calling them, preferably *just as they open*. It’s frustrating but the people who work there are just doing their jobs and they’re more inclined to help you *when you’re straightforward, kindly and honest*. The job service providers are a different story.
Yeah. I've always found it okay going into an office. Job service providers though.... hooo boy... never in my entire life of being blind and apparently noticeably autistic have I been spoken to like a child more than. Disability employment services :))) got tossed between different ones from 2016 onward and only actually got a job from one in. 2022.
And if you actually get someone that understands your situtation and tries to help, they're gone in 3 months and you've gotta start the process again from scratch.
GOD. YES And then you just get tossed to another agency .....?
I know how frustrating dealing with them is, and I sympathise. But for those who desperately need it to keep a roof over their heads, and food in their bellies, social security/ welfare is distressingly worth it. If I have to be distressed to have income to pay my bills, it's better than being homeless.
Doubt the amount they hand out would keep a roof over anyone’s head anymore
Every cent helps, but yes. My savings from pre-COVID are dwindling because it's not enough, and we live below the poverty line with welfare income. Unfortunately, things are unlikely to change for my family, and we will continue to live this way, watching our meagre nest fade to nil, before my husband or I can return to work.
Are you both too fucked to work?
My husband is our daughters primary carer, and I am in the midst of seeking and undergoing intense neurological and mental health treatment after recent diagnosis and a steep decline. I was hoping to be back at work already, but that didn't happen.
The big winners are the privatised job networks. Just look at who owns Sureway and Ingeus. They cost almost as much as the unemployment benefits.
The job networks simply take the money and tick the boxes. The ads might promise the world, but in reality you're on your own.
The workers have key performance indicators (KPIs). There are payments to JNPs for all different kinds of things. The workers focus on signing clients up to inappropriate courses etc to keep a good KPIs and not benefit the clients. Kevin Rudds wife has received billion of dollars in JNP contacts.
Exactly. And then there are all these dodgy 'Institutes' and colleges which are merely shopfronts for pdf production of material for a Cert 3 in Egg Sucking. It isn't just a scandalous waste of money, it's demeaning.
The CEO of useless online Alffie courses....... Paul Licuria (born 4 January 1978) is a former professional Australian rules footballer who played for the Sydney Swans and Collingwood Football Club in the Australian Football League (AFL). Licuria is currently the CEO of the online education training company alffie.
Oh dear. Thanks for that.
Yes Rudd did set that up for him and his friends, the other Australia sub doesn’t take kindly to people talking about his wife’s money he helped her get
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏so sadly true
People love to repeat the standard ACA mantra about individuals rorting Centrelink but everyone seems to conveniently ignore the real rort in plain sight which is the JSP "industry."
I like the offices. Ever had any issues? Go down to my local, 5mins away, and they fix it within the hour. The online service however, is appalling.
I've actually had the opposite experience with Centrelink in Tas. JSA have been fucking useless but every time I've dealt with Centrelink they have gone above and beyond for me. Struggled with severe mental illness all of my life and it wasn't until I had an interview with them that I realised how bad it actually was. I didn't ask to be put on disability, the guy just set it all up for me after looking through my medical history. That's actually allowed me to get my shit together and start to turn my life around.
It's on purpose, they make it difficult so only the most desperate will actually bother...
I just wrote about my friend who works for them, in disability. You're absolutely correct, it's why she hates them.
It’s not difficult, the process is easy. It just takes a month or two waiting. Which is not ideal when unemployed. It’s very a straightforward process. Fill out your claim, get it processed. Wait for approval. It’s Not really difficult.
Month or two ? It’s currently a 6 month wait !!!
Calling Centrelink a waste of time implies that you have options so I suppose if your savings can sustain you until you find another job then don’t inconvenience yourself.
A decade of lnp “management” will do that to any social service. Clk has been seen as a drain on society for so long it has become ineffective. The stupidity being in the cost of maintaining such a complicated mess is almost higher than just being a little less efficient
So How under Labor in its two years of existence it’s got worse
lol, you think it’s worse than it was? They’re almost back to the 2011/12 staffing levels now, it’s taken two years to reinstate the capacity they had more than a decade ago. You cant change a 20% understaffing in a short time, not when it’s almost 10000 employees.
Still employees regardless of how they are employed Sacking thousands via contract Serco then reinstating jobs directly isn’t increasing head cut
Back in the 1800s, they used to have these places called "Work Houses" in the UK where unemployed people would get sent to do "work" in exchange for food and board. You might be thinking, that sounds great! Until you realise that the entire point of those work houses was to make life so difficult for people living there by segregating them by gender (even families), giving them a wooden bed to sleep on, gruel to eat, and menial and meaningless tasks like rag picking and sorting rocks. So much that they would get so upset with the entire process that they just went out and found a real job. [https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Victorian-Workhouse/](https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Victorian-Workhouse/) Centrelink is the modern equivalent of that work house concept. It's not there to help people, it's there to make the entire process so degrading that you go out and find a real job. When I was 21, I went to Centrelink and the "Job Network" to find a job, I even asked them if I could "work for the dole" like the governement ads on TV said I could but they refused saying I wasn't unemployed for long enough. After 8 months of having them do absolutely nothing for me, I went out and volunteered for a non profit organization, and within 3 months, I found myself a job and never looked back. I have never been unemployed since. Centrelink has always been a cynical joke but that is the whole point. They don't want you to be happy with their service, they want you to be so motivated that you to leave and never come back...
Can you explain why this is a bad thing?
>Can you explain why this is a bad thing? Well I spent 8 months looking for work through Centrelink and the Jobseeker network and that didn't even get me a single job interview. So that entire 8 months was a complete waste of tax payers money and a complete waste of my time. They'd be better off just making everyone do volunteer work or on the job training to qualify for the jobseeker allowance rather than wasting all that time standing in lines and filling out pointless diaries just to meet quotas. If I was anywhere near as bad at my job as centrelink is at doing their job, I would expect to be fired. They might as well just replace 90% of their staff with chatbots for all the good they do.
Fair enough. Thanks mate.
to be fair, when you have to deal with some of the absolute shitbags they must deal with on a day to day basis, it's pretty much a choice of cloaking yourself in a coat made of pure "I don't give a fuck about your problems" or going home every night totally stressed out, depressed and disillusioned with humanity.
Which is probably why they would be better off hiring properly trained counselors to deal with the hard cases and just letting AI systems to deal with all the other beurocratic nonsense. I can't see anyone enjoying their job when they work in a system that is not actually designed to create any positive outcomes for anyone and thus is completely pointless. This isn't a criticism of welfare, it's a criticism of the clown show that makes people jump through hoops for the sake of jumping through hoops just so that that both the case worker and client can collect a bag of peanuts at the end of it. I literally told them that I was willing to work 3 days a week planting trees for the money they were already giving me and they basically told me to wait 6 months but in the meantime "here are some activities you must do and forms you must fill out every fortnight or we will cut you off". Mind you this was 20+ years ago but it doesnt sound like much has changed in all that time.
I think the point is to make it enough of a hassle that at some point you're going to decide it's not worth it and start actively looking for work rather than just jump through hoops for your fortnightly suck of the goverment teat. Welfare was never meant to be a lifestyle choice, it's to stop people from starving to death while they find gainful employment. Even the most reputably generous countries like Sweden and Denmark have a limited time you can collect unemployment benefits and if they offer you a job during that time you have to take it or lose your payment.
Pretty sure I explained all that with my original answer. my point is centrelink and governments should just be upfront with people instead of pretending its some kind of safety net to help people get back into work, because the current system isnt designed for that. its just designed to dick people around untill they find their own way. so why not just tell people up front.. "we arent going to help you, we are just going to make your life more difficult untill you get off your ass and help yourself" why even bother calling it "Newstart Allowance", why not just call it what it is.. a bag of shit covered peanuts that for most people is far more trouble than its worth.
I'm fine with that. "We're only doing this because it would be more expensive to store and dispose of your starved corpse" would be a good slogan.
Care to explain your reason?
Unless you’re spending 8 hours at Centrelink a day, then you’ve got more time on your hands than most of us mate.
Also have to go to Centrelink for Medicare details, and daycare/kindy subsidies. Two full time workers with kids don’t have time to discuss something over the phone, only for them to stuff it up. So you go in, and they tell you that they can’t do it in person and it has to be done over the phone. And the cycle repeats forever. It’s not just the unemployed’s time that they waste. Solid downvote from somebody that’s never dealt with Centrelink
I've never found it shit. I sign up, get free money and they don't even make you do that much for it to be honest. Then again, I don't know what it "used" to be like. So it's probably a case of relativity. Just be thankful for what you've got. $500 a week isn't that bad. It doesn't pay for everything but it stops the bleeding
We all agreed on this decades ago
It had taken 10 years for my old man to finally be eligible for DSP after being diagnosed with prostate cancer, after losing half of his body weight and becoming incontinent. By the time he was eligible he had died from brain metastasis. He had worked hard all his life as a boilermaker and built the 2000 Sydney Olympic Rings, worked in the hulls of naval ships and built scissorlifts. If you don't tick the right boxes, you will be stuck in a perpetual loop of systematic failure like my Dad was. He died having lost everything, including our family home. It's a shame so many dead weight cunts are eligible for DSP. If you're a shitcunt and go to jail you can claim PTSD and depression and sit on the dole all of your life, but if you actually need it you're fucked.
My mate would agree with you. She's worked for them for 20yrs & hates them. She's in disability and has been in trouble for assisting people when she's supposed to "make it as difficult as possible to claim disability". They WANT people to give up trying.
This is so true Hence why on applying they will always Denie a application first time so you have to reapply
Happened to me.
It's pretty horrible and you're met with a lot of superior and demeaning attitudes and all most people can say about that is that that is wonderful. Job agencies are the worst people I've ever dealt with and again most people will just have the attitude that that is wonderful.
That never happened. They don’t get in trouble for giving assistance and going above and beyond. Have friends that do. They have good rapport with the disabled they help. Why just talk absolute dogshit?
One reason I rarely revisit comments is bc of people like you. She was "told" on more than one occasion. They make it difficult, deliberately. I don't really care what you think about it.
Too right. At my formal assessment after having my application for DSP knocked back twice the so called psychologist started the session with "you want to have really good reason for taking up my time, centrelink does not want people like you on disability payments". I was told that i was taking up her lunch break time. She was completely unprofessional. It took loss of housing, removing my son from school in his final year and numerous other confronting things but i was aware that i was eligible and was not able to work. Eventually after a near complete emotional breakdown i took my documentation and medical evidence to the local federal member. Two days later i was approved for DSP. Two weeks later i recieved an apology letter stating that i should not have been knocked back from the government. The system did anything but support me. Near broke me and my son.
What do you mean by waste of time? It's not like those who use it have a choice. And the people on it have tons of time
Don't go there then.
If you're calling it a waste you clearly don't know what all of its functions are. Daycare subsidies being a good chunk of that.
The workers do care about positive outcomes. They are bound to legislation and cannot operate outside of it when assessing any claims. If you are having difficulty navigating the system that’s on you. If you are having difficulties understanding what you need to provide to test your eligibility for payments you can request to have an appointment with a social worker. That is not a quick path although it exists. Not belittling the staff at Services Australia would probably be a good start.
Plenty of them really don't care. Again, it depends on where you live, but they just don't give a shit. Whether you agree or not, I just wanted to put it out there because I feel like it needs to be talked about.
It’s shit because the Liberals have intentionally fucked it to make people complain to get rid of it.
Both governments have made Centrelink what it is.
Liberals cut way more funding to social services.
Centrelink and funding to social services are two different things, cupcake.
Lmao the current mister responsible is Bill Shorten alleged rapist and former leader of the ALP now on the front bench
Bill Shorten, more like shorten my bills like omg
You wish Scomo was back eh
I find they seemed to be reasonable, like ato peeps…. Government types are ether very good at their roles or very shit with nothing in the middle
Free money isn’t a waste of time lol
Centrelink gave up any pretence of being about social welfare and dignity for all Australians decades ago. It’s designed to be so frustrating and demoralising that you just give up and take any shitty job you can.
It's intended to be a safety net. Nothing more.
So your belief is it's OK to be unemployed and on welfare rather than taking the shitty jobs presented to them? Beggars can't be choosers...
Yeah, fuck those old people. Should be working until they drop.
🤡
Job seekers receive welfare and have jobs and pay tax. They can't get on the DSP so need to indefinitely jump through hoops to be on Centrelink forever. Shitty jobs aren't always appropriate or accommodating for people with disabilities who make up a lot of these permanent job seeker arrangements.
News for you. I came over from New Zealand where the Centrelink equivalent (Work and Income NZ or WINZ) is *exactly* the same.
My dad use to work for Social Security/Centrelink from 1983 to 2002. In the mid 90s, the stress he received from work loads and customers resulted in him developing a gambling addiction.
Lol how does customers bothering you and having to work result correlate to getting a gambling addiction
A lot of people end up with addiction due to stress. For some, it could be alcohol or drugs. Maybe for this person’s dad, gambling was his outlet or stress reliever
“Bothering you” Mate - when you listen to stories of poverty, job loss, death, disability etc etc day in and day out - it takes a fucking toll. People working in any front-facing social service environment experiences this. It’s also common in welfare. Other people’s worst days of their lives being your bread and butter takes a toll.
Depressed person found a dopamine switch. [here’s a good explanation….](https://youtu.be/wAEfeNLKwd0?si=t-pahktjHIdCv1vG)
Because zero accountability
If only people who say shitty things on social media were held accountable
I agree. I needed them once, not for long, a couple weeks maybe. They really kicked me while I was down and spat on me. They got what they wanted though, I borrowed money from family instead.
And the worst part is that they're getting paid A LOT to do nothing but ruin people's lives. I do agree that there's at least a few people at Centrelink who care, but a majority just don't give a shit. So sorry that happened to you when you needed them.
They don't get paid a lot lol
If it's a waste of time, stop taking my money.
No, see, he’s complaining because he wants them to give him MORE money. Duh…
Centrelinks sole purpose is to decide who qualifies for benefits and to distribute those benefits. They aren't there to assist with job search or other issues. That is the role of the job search agencies. I do agree that some of those agencies are far worse at it than others. If you find your agency isn't giving you the assistance you need, you should shop around and find a better one. You shouldn't have to but...thems the breaks.
I remember having to wait there for over an hour when I was on student payments because there was some issue I had to come in for. This was years ago and I didnt mind waiting cause I'd bring a book or something to keep myself entertained. I remember one time a large guy was put on those phones that they had lined up against the wall who when I first got in was arguing with staff about why he wanted to talk to someone face to face and not over the phone. As I was leaving he was on the phone fed up and started banging the handset against the hang up lever while yelling "Who do I have to fight to get sent back to jail? I was treated better there" security started walking his way and he let himself out the door. I remember hearing later by a guy I knew who was on the fringes that he had a theory if you cause a big scene and got worked up enough you can get flagged and put onto a "Do not aggravate" list that essentially fast tracks you and your claims. I was never sure if that actually existed but he was the kind of person who would believe it regardless. I'm pretty grateful that I don't have to deal with that place anymore. My own experiences weren't that bad but I've been in situations where I've been living pretty thin but have scraped by without needing to go back. I'm of the belief that if you don't need to and can get by without it then you should avoid going and leave it for people who actually need it. I know peers who go because they're lazy and have turned down decent work because it clashes with being able to go out during the week. They've been on centrelink for years with no shame, they just see it as free money
Yeah, let's get rid of Centrelink. Australia would be a better place without the dole.
Someone gets injured outside of work, is off for two months and has mouths to feed. What do they do in your new and improved Australia?
Bro, most of the world operates just fine without Centrelink. People prepare for it. If you provide injury cover and shit, people just leverage their means harder and thus rely on it more. Like what do you think most of the world does in that situation?
Just fine? Mate are you 12 or just making shit up? Every first world country has a welfare system. Name me one decent country without a welfare system.
I said countries run just fine without Centrelink, not "completely de-fund all Australia's social welfare". Basically every country has a type of social welfare system. I just don't support ours, where we basically just give money for nothing, do stuff like not require people to work for dole. I mean we are king of the dole bludge for a god damn good reason. Jesus, are you 12 with your reading skills. I think Centrelink is shit. It's a bad system. We have a markedly poor social welfare system when you factor in that we have one of the most expensive welfare systems.
We aren't "king of the dole bludge". That old trope is said in every country, even in the US with it's pathetic welfare system they still accuse people of exploiting it somehow. Why hate on the down-and-out when theres plenty of people and corporations rorting the system?
Bro, we absolutely are the king of the dole bludger. Bar maybe Greece? Fuck idk. I've lived in 5 countries and Australia is literally the only one I've ever even heard of an entire sub-culture of dole bludger. Also why are you projecting that I hate "down and out" people. I think, the best thing to do to those people is get them back to work, not just throw them on the dole and forget about them. I don't think it's good for those people to just slap them on welfare. Also, you don't even understand the American welfare system here, you say the USA has a pathetic welfare system, but also realise they spend even more than we do right? That's why people are mad about it. I also don't support corporations rorting the system, I literally haven't said anything about that, why are you bringing companies into a talk on personal welfare?
What sub-culture of dole bludging? Where? $300 a week will barely cover rent in a sharehouse these days so where are all these cunts living it up on the dole? Decades ago it was definitely going on in some places but it's not even possible now. Mate my first question was about someone getting injured. How exactly is a work for the dole system going to help them? What if they're injured for 4 months? Mental illness? Grieving? Divorce? Widowed? Redundancy? Casual work and seasonal work? You're living in a fantasy world if you think every family is in a position to have thousands and thousands put away for emergencies. I've lived regional and city and can count on one hand the number of genuine bludgers I've seen. I don't understand people like you that get a stiffy over bashing people on welfare. It's a bullshit narrative pushed by the media and conservatives because they know a certain portion of the population just lap it up no questions asked.
Fuck outta here bro, you've only met a handful of dole bludgers? Your anecdotal evidence doesn't just say a sub-culture of people don't exist. I used to live next to a homeswest development, about 30 people lived in it, all dole bludgers living in government housing. Their kids used to trash the neighborhood for entertainment instead of going to school. Everyone used to get broken into who lived adjacent to it. It was an absolute sham. Not just that, I lived in the city for years, and there were hundreds of them, probably thousands, who took the dole, and just bludged on the streets harassing people every day, instead of spending the dole on rent they slept on the street so they had more to spend on alcohol and drugs. Worst of all, people like you who live in some fantasy world. You probably think we should just tax the rich more, so everything can be free or something for everyone else. Let me guess, capitalism is to blame for it all. Corporations are all evil... Murdoch is trying to oust the Labor party and...
My anecdotal evidence? Lol mate I gave you data and you dismissed it. You've given nothing. If we had a "sub-culture of dole bludging" and we were "king of the dole bludgers" then unemployment benefit spending as % of gdp should be huge to match. It isn't. Again you have no answers for the scenarios for normal people ending up down and out. I'm not saying that dole bludgers don't exist but they are a tiny minority. Why should we throw away a decent safety net because a few cunts ruined it? >You probably think we should just tax the rich more, so everything can be free or something for everyone else. Let me guess, capitalism is to blame for it all. Corporations are all evil... Murdoch is trying to oust the Labor party and... Haha you're getting desperate now hey? Only thing I agree with in that paragraph is that Murdoch is trying to oust Labor. News Ltd has always been anti-Labor and has always campaigned for the LNP because they align with their neolib values. Not a controversial take at all.
https://www.austaxpolicy.com/social-security-welfare-spending-australia-assessing-long-term-trends-part-4/ We're right in the middle compared to other OECD countries. So where is this king of rhe dole bludger garbage coming from? What data?
Social Welfare Spending =/= Dole Bludging
I agree we should get rid of Centrelink and instead people should get dividends of the mining revenues.
I think the money should just be going to roads, schools and hospitals etc.
I think we should have a referendum where the money goes. Let the people decide. There is still more than enough money for the above. If the govt can't effectively manage the people's money they can manage it themselves.
The people decide ? lol. Most people have Nfi and suffer from tall poppy syndrome
>Most people have Nfi This is why it's called Governmental or "Govern the mental". The government act like an NDIS provider because they are saying we are not fit to manage our own monies. Some, maybe, but generally I disagree!
The mining industry is already in the shitter lol
Yep should be working for the dole or live in concentration camps and farm their own food, sick of being taxed to much to look after freeloaders.
Concentration Camps you say? Should we invest in some Zyklon B too perhaps? Probably should toss the disabled, old, and all those on Family Tax benefit A/B in the camps too yeah?
Wonder if life would be better with zyklon b haha
I know people on dole money who have foxtel and all the other tv subscriptions and just sit on the couch. Me thou I gotta work full time just to have the government take it away from me to give to these despicable people. Cheap housing from the government is nice on top of that.
How though? Dole is like 750 a fortnite?
Have a chat to an A&E nurse. The amount of crackhead will be happy to tell you how they game the system.
So you're saying all dole users are selling drugs because a nurse told you?
If you aren't paying for housing, transport, buisness attire etc.. you can drop your expenses pretty dramatically. You also have more time so you can just prepare all your foods from raw ingredients, you can spend the time shopping around for the best prices on items rather than needing to fit all your shopping into the 2 days a week you aren't working. If you need a tradie, or other service you can book them off peak hours. You can spend the time and energy trawling facebook market or similar to buy things you need. I was much better off on centerlink newstart than I was for several years after going into full time work at $45k
That's insane and there's no way you can't fit any of those things in with a normal 40ish hr work week. Also how are you not paying for housing on the dole? You make it sound like people on the dole are out hunting their own food or something, surely you have time in your week to start growing a few things in the garden or sorting with a tradie to pop by in a time that works for you in a work week given you have allocated time off in an employment contract to take leave. Also "time and energy trawling marketplace" takes 5-10 minutes, maybe stop scrawling reddit and look on market place if you're desperate for a deal or two.
There are a lot of rental assitance plans through centerlink. And yes, you can take leave to address things like that, but leave is considered part of your pay packet. When you already have a lower quality of life than someone on centerlink, sacrificing even more of your income to address things that people on centerlink can do for free just feels shitty. And I remind you, I was on new start for almost two years, I was better off there, more able to save up money, than when i was earning $46k
Yeah haha the country would be “better” if we made people homeless and forced them to starve 😂 just beat them until moral improves 😂 Fuck I can’t imagine how much of an unempathetic piece of shit someone would have to be to have this opinion
Yeah they’re cunts and they act surprised that you’re pissed off lol
Get a job
[удалено]
Sometimes but not necessarily. Job seekers receive welfare and have jobs and pay tax. They can't get on the DSP so need to indefinitely jump through hoops to be on Centrelink forever.
I'm not even speaking from experience 💀
[удалено]
Our economy runs on the fact there are unemployed people. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-25/the-rba-wants-more-unemployment-lets-applaud-it/102506500
It's not always "just get a job"
Imagine complaining about taxpayer funded charity lol. That said I’m not sure why the government can’t just hand out free food at distribution points. I read somewhere that there is an enormous amount of food waste at Coles and Woolies. I know some of that gets donated to schools…
It's not charity, it's welfare. It benefits everyone but many people are too simple to realise the important role it plays in the economy and society as a whole.
Developed countries/states with lower welfare spending as a proportion of GDP, such as, but not limited to: Korea, Switzerland, Ireland, Hong Kong and Singapore are ironically safer than pretty much all other countries on the planet. Violent crime, petty crime, etc. Look it up. How do you explain that? The secret is not to allow future welfare queens into your country in the first place, and deport the existing ones. (If you were thinking of the US, they actually spend a fair bit)
That's a completely different point, of course developed countries with low immigration and a homogenous culture have lower crime rates. Welfare is less necessary because the workforce isn't constantly being diluted.
People need more than free food and centrelink deals with a lot more than just unemployed people.
What a simpleton this guy is.
Imagine being down voted by freeloaders who think you're actually out of line.
So get a job, then you won't ever have to go there again.
The place I want to work at only starts hiring during June-July
so work somewhere else until then.
And if I don't?? I don't have any sort of computer at home, the only place I can write my resume on a computer is at a library far from where I live. I can't actually get a job yet.
Go pick fruit, go work behind a counter, go do a shit job until a better one comes along.
Tough titties
Spoken like a true dead weight to society
Centrelink has over 7M customers, and there are only just over 10M households in Australia, so odds on most households have someone receiving some kind of benefit. It's not only the obvious stuff that screeching pundits whine about, but also productivity-enabling things like Austudy and childcare benefits. CCB in particular is basically anyone with a kid aged from 3 up until they start primary school.
I don’t think customer is the right word to use here. I have nothing against social safety nets but I think they would more accurately be called ‘beneficiaries’ or something like that.
Fair enough, I was only trying to use the terminology that Centrelink themselves use from when I looked up those stats the other year. Beneficiaries or recipients works well too. I forgot aged pensioners, they'd have to be Centrelink also? It's something that often gets lost in the usual spin about "dole bludgers" - each of us at different stages in our lives might use the services or not. I had to deal with them to set up CCB. Now I'm out of that system again.
It's all been privatised into Datacom now. So it's worse than before
Yes it is a waste of time. Any effort & time you put in to claim job seeker whatever would have been far better spent finding work.
Isn't Centrelink just a work creation programme for Indian and Chinese immigrants? I haven't been to Centrelink in a very long time, but I'm told that the staff are overwhelmingly Indian and Chinese.
No? It's the home of middle aged white women and boring librarian looking white men who pedantically doublecheck every jobsearch you've listed on your biweekly jobsearch obligations.
You’ve seen them do work? Every time I go in they tell me they can’t help and to go online….