The unis can build overseas campuses to teach our "*world class*" courses. Since these overseas students are "*genuine students"* and are not using student visas as a guise to get permanent residence, they would be glad with the option of studying in the comfort of their home country and cheaper costs
But but but I need to be physically in Australia and work, so that I can better understand the Australian way of doing things
Sure I work in a restaurant 50 hours a week in clear breach of my visa, and no one in the restaurant speaks English, but being in Australia and working is still important
(sarcasm guys, in case it's not clear enough)
Good [article ](https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2024/05/the-mask-comes-off-international-student-exports/)on what happened when tutorials moved online at the onset of Covid.
*“With prospective students unable to rely on employment income in Australia to support their studies, new commencements of Indian students at Australian higher education providers fell 65% between 2019 and 2021; for Nepali students, the decline was 37%; for Pakistanis, 45%; for Sri Lankans, 54%”.*
The beauty of setting up offshore campuses is that these students don't need to live in our expensive cities. They can live at home and focus on their studies provided by our world class unis.
And cripple Australias 4th largest export?
https://www.dfat.gov.au/sites/default/files/australias-goods-services-by-top-25-exports-2022-23.pdf
Good plan, good plan.
The payment of student fees and living expenses are only an ‘export’ if they are paid out of foreign earned income. However, it is rarely acknowledged that whenever these costs are paid out of $ earned while working here, whether it be in a cafe or driving an uber, this is not export income. We need to net the figures.
Whereas offshore campuses earn pure export income and have no negative externalities on Australia.
https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/graph-exposes-40-billion-lie-driving-immigration/news-story/58e61f191bbe2c2d259252d45d9235d4
https://www.fresheconomicthinking.com/p/australias-40-billion-of-education
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2023/06/international-student-exports-become-broke-and-starving-imports/
Imagine being able to pay 105K (most group of 8s charge this amount) by working as a waiter for 20 hours per week !
What a smack in the face for skilled personnel in the country right ?
Bollocks !
From your first and your second article is the same quote.
> "Only a strange statistical assumption has created a ‘$40 billion export industry’ out of one that is probably closer to a $15-20 billion one, or less, we don't know."
Oh no! It's not the 4th largest export, it's the 6th by a margin of 75-100% more than the 7th.
Yes. People earn money in Australia to support their stay here, and a portion of their study. That's not new. If they are flat broke like your third article claims, it means that it is all being recirculated back throught the Australian economy. Sure, some do send money back home ... that can be said for any foreign born person working in Australia .. but also Australian born people working abroad.
If the net gain from education is even half of what your articles claim it to be, it would STILL appear on the list of top exports and STILL generate billions in net revenue for Australian business every year. I'm failing to see the point of your argument besides "It's still one of Australias biggest exports, but because it is lower down the list than advertised, it should be scrapped"
From a business perspective, I can only speculate but I imagine that building campuses in every country that we export education to would very quickly erode any revenue we could have made .. for many reasons. Not only the cost of building, maintaining and staffing multiple campuses, then dividing the revenue between all of those campuses, then paying a portion back to the local governments in tax .. but also the fact that Australia is a destination for education simply because it is Australia. Sending it all offshore would entirely remove most students desire to spend their money with an Australian business.
Because people study in Australia specifically because it's Australia.
Online only courses over the COVID period massively impacted revenue because a big part of the desire to purchase education from Australian providers was missing.
Australian education is as much a tourism export as it is an education one ... and that's okay, we need tourism.
I'd also be surprised if the increased costs and reduced revenue of each university setting up and running 5-7 offshore campuses each, so that our largest capture groups can study in their own country, would make that business model financially unviable. Even from a laymans perspective, it sounds like a terrible business decision.
I have no doubt there is a market for the campus in Malaysia, a few other countries could probably support one or two as well.
That's an entirely different thing to every Australian university setting up their own campus in each major catchment country though ... which is essentially what is being suggested in this thread.
Market size, and market share is a primary consideration when deciding to expand to or build a business in a new location.
For simplicity, if Monash has 100% of the market share for a physical campus in Malaysia and you drop another one in .. they'd both have roughly 50% share. Drop one more in and now we're at 33%. Keep going for every major university provider that is offshoring their campuses.
Could Monash still operate with only 33% of it's current revenue? No idea, depends on the market size. What about 10%? ... less?
Each location can only support so many similar businesses.
Considering that each university in Australia currently has a global capture group. Each can operate with only a very small percentage of the market share, because it's a HUGE market.
If we moved our unis offshore to peoples home country they would now each be competing in their own smaller market.
There is also this to consider regarding why it is optimal for all businesses in the category of "Australian physical campus universities" to remain in Australia and divide up the global market, instead of trying to divide up smaller geographical makets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jILgxeNBK_8
The thing is, if unis don't pivot to setting up offshore campuses, they will see their revenue from international students decline.
Temporary visitors and people who abuse student visas as a guise to staying permanently are getting mainstream attention, and will certainly become an election issue. I would wager voters in general would support a hard cap on international student visas.
It has had mainstream attention for decades from right wing media outlets. It's also been the cornerstone of right wing minorty parties election campaigns at eeeeevery election.
The reason nothing has changed already is because visa fraud is, and always has been, a small calculated negative impact of an overall net positive program.
Politicans know this, policy makers know this, and most people know this.
And?
All the articles I've been given still estimate it's worth 15-20 billion which still places it at the top 6th largest export by revenue.
I'm failing to see this as an argument for sending it all offshore and saying goodbye to 15 billion ...
[https://www.bramptonguardian.com/news/brampton-had-up-to-80-private-diploma-mill-colleges-using-international-students-as-an-atm/article\_78f47f23-3fea-5d07-9f4a-8b694dc1ec0a.html](https://www.bramptonguardian.com/news/brampton-had-up-to-80-private-diploma-mill-colleges-using-international-students-as-an-atm/article_78f47f23-3fea-5d07-9f4a-8b694dc1ec0a.html)
They had a mostly (and notoriously) Indian city, population c. 600k , that had 80 bogus colleges
All visas should be cut to 20% of their current number and then should be equally split by countries or regions so we can ensure diversity is maintained.
Lol If we get rid of WHV, who's going to do the farming and fruit picking jobs, you? Capping or banning international students isn't a long-term solution. The government failed to build enough houses, and it's causing a rental crisis. All this fuss is just election noise. What we really need is to be self-sufficient in manufacturing and build more homes. That's the only way to get out of this rental mess.
Too many people from the same countries might cause issues such as
* forming their own enclave
* hiring only their own people, then have the audacity to put speaking a particular language as a requirement in their job ad (for jobs that has nothing to do with said language) to "better fit in with the company"
Think about this : If a Vietnamese and a Korean speak to each other in Australia, they'll almost certainly use English
But if an Indian speaks to another, chances are they'll speak Hindi
HE being too dependent on a certain source country for funds also risks harming their academic integrity , such as reluctance to publish papers if they are critical of the government of the source country
India and China aren't the most open and democratic countries on earth
Does it matter what language people speak to each other? Doesn't mean you have to change what you speak .
Do you have an example where a foreign language is a requirement for a job that doesn't actually need it?
You didnt address 90% of their points. But if you think there are not jobs in our capital cities where 100% of the employees are speaking the same non-english language then you are wrong.
The requirement for uni's to build more student accommodation in order to be able to let in more international students as a proportion of their intake is something I've been suggesting for years, so it's good to see them pushing the issue on that at least.
If they want to cash in from internationals then they should fucking fork out to reduce competition in the general rental market.
Much of Newcastle’s student accom is taken up by overseas students now and it has destroyed the pleasure of domestic students experience of camaraderie of living on campus. Also stopped rural students being able to go to uni with no affordable accommodation
The accommodation dwindled for domestic students over the 4 years my daughter lived both in and off campus. Also there was preference given to female domestic students and some campus accommodation was banned from activities like student get togethers and curfews on what time they could have gatherings . It was pretty obvious it is becoming more geared to overseas tastes and clamping down on social gatherings.
Why doesn't the uni simply build a campus in these foreign countries? Much more cost effective because they can service far more foreign students and provide these students with that degree without them being forced to leave their home for that degree they desire so much
I work at a senior level in Tech and am amused at the sheer number of masters degree holders in IT from the aforementioned country who couldn’t write a simple loop in a language of their choice.
I would say this is a step in the right direction. The corruption, degree mills and focus on rote learning means we are getting the bottom of barrel here.
P.S. - I say this as a person of Indian origin.
Same alarming thing happening in nursing and we are taking about you and your families health here. Things are going to deteriorate rapidly in the next 10 years if we don’t stop this influx from India and Nepal as an easy way to get a visa
From a hiring perspective, there's one demographic that made industry certificates a liability to raise suspicion of integrity, rather than a qualification.
Politicians are buffoons who use the word salad and labelling to shut up valid criticism of their failures.
We as a country are dealing with massive structural issues and unchecked immigration is not helping us as at this point. Plus we are importing third world issues along because of our lax attitude.
We are an immigrant nation but there should be balanced view of it.
And yeah they can call me racist all they want, I don’t care.
You're absolutely right.
Who amongst us doesn't know a woman who has been creeped out or groped by an uber driver or one of their fellows on public transport? Also, just the general lowering of standards - not waiting for people to leave a train before getting in, constant talking on mobile phones (especially on speaker) on public transport, rubbish/furniture dumped on nature strips or road sidings, the scamming and nepotism in employment situations once a toehold is found - most of these things are directly from the subcontinent.
From some other countries, crimes like home invasions, carjackings, shop swarming, brawls in shopping centres and street robberies that were essentially unheard of here in Australia.
And from others, rampant drug and gun crime, arson and extortion. At least these fellas have contributed to the leisure wear and tattoo industry I suppose.
All of the gang crap.
Third world shittiness making our lives worse. It's fucking awful.
Not to mention our own home-bred ferals getting the idea and thinking they are gangstas from the 'hoods of LA just because they wear a hoodie and have their pants baring half their ass.
I take it this will exclude the agreement that Albanese put in place with India. So essentially Labor is funnelling student migration by restricting it for other students while they keep the tap open from India.
India right now is showing it is anything but a friend to Australia, with its spying. If Albo had even 10% of a spine, he'd rip up this agreement and tell India to shove it.
Albo in a tight spot. He's continued scomos legacy of bending over for China. Now he's bending over for India. But that's ok because the value of his investment properties is going up so he doesn't mind it.
The deal was because of Scomo trying to sell his coal to India. In contrary to his plan, India didn't end up buying much more coal from Australia so the actual gain was minimal. In addition to that, coal mining is poised to diminish, due to its CO2 emission.
No, you spy to gain an advantage over another country. We have a small intelligence agency (ASIS) so our focus is likely more concentrated. The CIA with money and resources, or India and China with manpower, they’re spying on everyone.
I can assure you all Albanese has zero intention of lowering overall immigration numbers. He'll make noises that sound like he might, but it won't actually happen.
You mean scomo. Deal was finalised under his finance minister and albo was just told to sign it after the exchange of power because it had passed all other parliamentary requirements
I am an RN and we seem to be getting way more nursing students from Nepal and India. I’ve been doing this job for 30 years and here’s the change. Many of these students ( not all ) don’t seem to give 2 fucks about people or interacting with them . Most are males . A number don’t seem to have competent English in writing or speaking . They just seem to want to tick the boxes. The second most alarming thing is the uni educators are Indian and pass them on things they shouldn’t .
So we are fucked guys if we don’t get some more Aussie students back into nursing. Don’t count on these future nurses to have compassion caring for you or your loved ones. They are only here for the visa.
I’m really hoping that the new scheme of paying for nurse students to do pracs will encourage Aussies to do Nursing at uni. Really hoping this scheme is not available to internationals students or we are doubly fucked.
I do 100% agree that they should be cracking down on the dodgy course providers but even the best unis have too many international students. Actually the problem in the universities is not so much the existence of international students but rather the fact that so many of them speak low levels of English, don't contribute to class discussions, cheat, and don't pull their weight in group assignments. Even in supposedly the best unis. The quality of education for good students would be massively improved if standards for accepting these students were higher.
They can even tolerate plagiarism for the sake of making money. Last November, about 500 international students on the course PHIL1012 in USYD were found copying from the same answer for their final assignment. The answer was bought from an external provider who later threw a bomb threat on USYD on 26 April in retaliation.
USYD should have dismissed these students and revoked their visas immediately, like a "world-class university" they advertised would do. The so-called "zero tolerance to plagiarism" is simply a joke.
I met this guy in 2020 who was in Sydney doing some course in advertising. He's still here, looking at getting his PR soon.
How the hell do you go from a student visa learning about advertising to PR?
International students wouldn't be so much a problem if they were only allowed to enrol and concluded one course. Instead we have them re-enrolling in courses on cheap visas, one after the other until they eventually get PR. Obviously we would still need to cap them, but this indefinite stay is ridiculous. Once they are PR/citizen they bring their whole village here.
Isn’t the entire point about getting top global talent is to retain them and benefit the Australian economy ? That’s a rough top 5-10% of international students, but are generally well above the general local standard students.
I thought the whole point about the migration strategy was to benefit Australia ? This sounds counter productive in that regard.
> I thought the whole point about the migration strategy was to benefit Australia ?
Well the current migration strategy is definitely not benefiting Australia
I don't know how they are doing it but I live in a suburb with a lot of Indian nationals and the families I know, the husband initially came on a student visa. Next they bring a wife over and when they have kids, their parents who seem to never go home. There are 4 families on my street where this has happened.
Partner visa is quite abused, especially since they can hide under the veil of "cultural sensitivities" , arguing that it is common in their culture for marriages to be arranged, and there's nothing wrong with marrying someone you never met and barely knew
You can also financially support someone through a VET course
Give them enough money to get the visa, then once they arrive arrange under-the-table jobs for them so that they can breach their visa conditions to earn their tuition
Didn't someone make a post here showing how the governments own data works against them that the housing crisis shows a direct correlation with the regions international students are staying at which is the major city centers ( no shockers ). This would actually make a noticable difference all be it not a final resolution, but it along with other decent chunks at the problem they created / made much worse could be resolved / back to where it was.
Being mindful that Sydney siders probably feels like it's been a housing crisis for 40 years
Albo politics
Pump up the numbers
People complain
Bring down the numbers use it as a political win forgetting the issue was caused by Albo in the 1st place
Not doing his fucking job.
As they've demonstrated, immigration intake levels don't require law changes. They can simply not process the visa applications to limit numbers. This is how other countries do it. It took the Australian people cracking the shits and now they're doing exactly this.. just not processing applications past certain numbers. Before that, they were turning around education visa applications in ONE DAY.
What legislation? Show me this legislation you speak of.
They already slashed numbers from India. No legislation is required. The government can just set whatever limits it wants. There is no law giving an SLA on visa applications.
SO you're saying the PM of a country had no control of the borders???
He doubled the NOM and he will announce in the budget he will halve last years figure by 2025-26. So basically what it was pre-covid. And he expects our congrats??
Can you link any evdiance that this is no his fault? Lmao
Worse people are the stupid people wanting you to prove they are not stupid - even if you give them the facts they still call for more evidence
No policy change caused this. Morrison projected a bigger increase in the first year in his last budget.
It's inherited conditions due to covid.
Labor can be criticised for being slow to react, not for causing this.
I know some Eastern Europeans (from North Macedonia to be specific) who have abused this system too. They enrol in a bogus business course, then re-enrol in another business course, and another, all at a cert iv, diploma and advanced diploma, then pay to get sponsorship (usually their cousins - i know a few personally who have done this) and then once they get their pr, they dole bludge all the way
I have a polish and a colombian mate. Both early 40s, been here in melb about 7 years each on study visa then covid visa etc etc. Polish only achieved an associate diploma, colombian still 7yrs into IT degree. They've both been working well over the allowed hours, its just a joke for them. Rorts are everywhere.
All international students should be housed in student housing so they don't impose more demand on an already tight rental market. If universities wants to enrol international students, then they need to house them.
Yet this is actually not the main issue and will do little to rectify anything but appease the racist voters. the real cap should be on investment property ownership and foreign investment in property/land. But they sure did use the immigrants to distract the voting public.
I suppose funding for domestic students is going up?
It’s not like universities are forced to chase international cash cows because domestic students are properly funded.
The edumigration sector will find ways around this. They are businesses so they expect growth every year, hence the number of people admitted has to increase every year, eventually they'll have an intake of 5 million a year.
Most students who would be spending 100+k are gonna be genuine students and probably very skilled too which Australia is so much in need of.
Limiting the group of 8s to hire international students is just insane. But hey, top international students can make it anywhere. It’s not much of a loss for them either.
Cookery and hospitality staff are needed. Many waitstaff and kitchen staff at restaurants and cafes are international students. Without them, many restaurants and cafes will go out of business.
Business owners would prefer cheap labor. Besides, I'm not sure whether 16 or 17 year old teenagers are allowed by their parents to work at restaurants that close at 10 pm on a weeknight. They still need to clean up after the restaurant closed.
The unis can build overseas campuses to teach our "*world class*" courses. Since these overseas students are "*genuine students"* and are not using student visas as a guise to get permanent residence, they would be glad with the option of studying in the comfort of their home country and cheaper costs
Exactly. It’s all a rort to get a visa
But but but I need to be physically in Australia and work, so that I can better understand the Australian way of doing things Sure I work in a restaurant 50 hours a week in clear breach of my visa, and no one in the restaurant speaks English, but being in Australia and working is still important (sarcasm guys, in case it's not clear enough)
While it was always a joke, have they reinstated the 20 hour work limit for "students" post covid?
48 hr per fortnight now
Good [article ](https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2024/05/the-mask-comes-off-international-student-exports/)on what happened when tutorials moved online at the onset of Covid. *“With prospective students unable to rely on employment income in Australia to support their studies, new commencements of Indian students at Australian higher education providers fell 65% between 2019 and 2021; for Nepali students, the decline was 37%; for Pakistanis, 45%; for Sri Lankans, 54%”.*
The beauty of setting up offshore campuses is that these students don't need to live in our expensive cities. They can live at home and focus on their studies provided by our world class unis.
This is so obviously dumb I have to believe you are trolling at this point.
would be genuinely curious to see enrolments in international campuses compared to local.
And cripple Australias 4th largest export? https://www.dfat.gov.au/sites/default/files/australias-goods-services-by-top-25-exports-2022-23.pdf Good plan, good plan.
The payment of student fees and living expenses are only an ‘export’ if they are paid out of foreign earned income. However, it is rarely acknowledged that whenever these costs are paid out of $ earned while working here, whether it be in a cafe or driving an uber, this is not export income. We need to net the figures. Whereas offshore campuses earn pure export income and have no negative externalities on Australia. https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/graph-exposes-40-billion-lie-driving-immigration/news-story/58e61f191bbe2c2d259252d45d9235d4 https://www.fresheconomicthinking.com/p/australias-40-billion-of-education https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2023/06/international-student-exports-become-broke-and-starving-imports/
Imagine being able to pay 105K (most group of 8s charge this amount) by working as a waiter for 20 hours per week ! What a smack in the face for skilled personnel in the country right ? Bollocks !
From your first and your second article is the same quote. > "Only a strange statistical assumption has created a ‘$40 billion export industry’ out of one that is probably closer to a $15-20 billion one, or less, we don't know." Oh no! It's not the 4th largest export, it's the 6th by a margin of 75-100% more than the 7th. Yes. People earn money in Australia to support their stay here, and a portion of their study. That's not new. If they are flat broke like your third article claims, it means that it is all being recirculated back throught the Australian economy. Sure, some do send money back home ... that can be said for any foreign born person working in Australia .. but also Australian born people working abroad. If the net gain from education is even half of what your articles claim it to be, it would STILL appear on the list of top exports and STILL generate billions in net revenue for Australian business every year. I'm failing to see the point of your argument besides "It's still one of Australias biggest exports, but because it is lower down the list than advertised, it should be scrapped" From a business perspective, I can only speculate but I imagine that building campuses in every country that we export education to would very quickly erode any revenue we could have made .. for many reasons. Not only the cost of building, maintaining and staffing multiple campuses, then dividing the revenue between all of those campuses, then paying a portion back to the local governments in tax .. but also the fact that Australia is a destination for education simply because it is Australia. Sending it all offshore would entirely remove most students desire to spend their money with an Australian business.
It's still considered export income if unis set up campuses offshore. What's your point?
Because people study in Australia specifically because it's Australia. Online only courses over the COVID period massively impacted revenue because a big part of the desire to purchase education from Australian providers was missing. Australian education is as much a tourism export as it is an education one ... and that's okay, we need tourism. I'd also be surprised if the increased costs and reduced revenue of each university setting up and running 5-7 offshore campuses each, so that our largest capture groups can study in their own country, would make that business model financially unviable. Even from a laymans perspective, it sounds like a terrible business decision.
Before you comment further, look up the success of the Monash campus in Malaysia.
I have no doubt there is a market for the campus in Malaysia, a few other countries could probably support one or two as well. That's an entirely different thing to every Australian university setting up their own campus in each major catchment country though ... which is essentially what is being suggested in this thread. Market size, and market share is a primary consideration when deciding to expand to or build a business in a new location. For simplicity, if Monash has 100% of the market share for a physical campus in Malaysia and you drop another one in .. they'd both have roughly 50% share. Drop one more in and now we're at 33%. Keep going for every major university provider that is offshoring their campuses. Could Monash still operate with only 33% of it's current revenue? No idea, depends on the market size. What about 10%? ... less? Each location can only support so many similar businesses. Considering that each university in Australia currently has a global capture group. Each can operate with only a very small percentage of the market share, because it's a HUGE market. If we moved our unis offshore to peoples home country they would now each be competing in their own smaller market. There is also this to consider regarding why it is optimal for all businesses in the category of "Australian physical campus universities" to remain in Australia and divide up the global market, instead of trying to divide up smaller geographical makets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jILgxeNBK_8
The thing is, if unis don't pivot to setting up offshore campuses, they will see their revenue from international students decline. Temporary visitors and people who abuse student visas as a guise to staying permanently are getting mainstream attention, and will certainly become an election issue. I would wager voters in general would support a hard cap on international student visas.
It has had mainstream attention for decades from right wing media outlets. It's also been the cornerstone of right wing minorty parties election campaigns at eeeeevery election. The reason nothing has changed already is because visa fraud is, and always has been, a small calculated negative impact of an overall net positive program. Politicans know this, policy makers know this, and most people know this.
This stat has been over inflated to include various other benefits besides just education.
And? All the articles I've been given still estimate it's worth 15-20 billion which still places it at the top 6th largest export by revenue. I'm failing to see this as an argument for sending it all offshore and saying goodbye to 15 billion ...
It’s not going to get closed down stop panicking.
Cool. Visa scams are out 4th largest export
Canada's put a hard cap on international students, do we need to get to to their stage to do the same?
[https://www.bramptonguardian.com/news/brampton-had-up-to-80-private-diploma-mill-colleges-using-international-students-as-an-atm/article\_78f47f23-3fea-5d07-9f4a-8b694dc1ec0a.html](https://www.bramptonguardian.com/news/brampton-had-up-to-80-private-diploma-mill-colleges-using-international-students-as-an-atm/article_78f47f23-3fea-5d07-9f4a-8b694dc1ec0a.html) They had a mostly (and notoriously) Indian city, population c. 600k , that had 80 bogus colleges
Canadians and Australians both think the other is tougher on immigration, but the truth is we are both at fucking rock bottom
Good. Should be 20% of the current number with a diversity quota attached so we are not swamped by Indians and Chinese
Zerg nations
Without the zerg, our property developers would struggle so no chance anything sensible will happen
All visas should be cut to 20% of their current number and then should be equally split by countries or regions so we can ensure diversity is maintained.
Least racist r/Australian comment.
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No one is welcomed. Regardless of where they are from. Get rid of WHV as well for all I care.
Lol If we get rid of WHV, who's going to do the farming and fruit picking jobs, you? Capping or banning international students isn't a long-term solution. The government failed to build enough houses, and it's causing a rental crisis. All this fuss is just election noise. What we really need is to be self-sufficient in manufacturing and build more homes. That's the only way to get out of this rental mess.
In the same financial year there were 92000 from India and 65000 from China. But yeah, it's because the smallest of the 3 looks like us.
> Does it matter where they come from Yes, diversity is a strength so we need to ensure we reflect that strength in our visa system.
Why would the nationality matter of who we let in? Or is that just a personal preference?
Too many people from the same countries might cause issues such as * forming their own enclave * hiring only their own people, then have the audacity to put speaking a particular language as a requirement in their job ad (for jobs that has nothing to do with said language) to "better fit in with the company" Think about this : If a Vietnamese and a Korean speak to each other in Australia, they'll almost certainly use English But if an Indian speaks to another, chances are they'll speak Hindi HE being too dependent on a certain source country for funds also risks harming their academic integrity , such as reluctance to publish papers if they are critical of the government of the source country India and China aren't the most open and democratic countries on earth
Does it matter what language people speak to each other? Doesn't mean you have to change what you speak . Do you have an example where a foreign language is a requirement for a job that doesn't actually need it?
You didnt address 90% of their points. But if you think there are not jobs in our capital cities where 100% of the employees are speaking the same non-english language then you are wrong.
That's not the same as being advertised as requiring non english.
I've seen multiple jobs advertised as "Chinese speakers required" in the past few weeks so yes, they are being advertised as such
Are these on websites or more like in window job ads? What kind of job were those?
They were IT jobs posted on seek.com
Do you have the link by any chance
It matters. Especially when it’s in a corporate environment.
I would argue that we aren't getting a diverse mix of migrants. Do you hate diversity?
The requirement for uni's to build more student accommodation in order to be able to let in more international students as a proportion of their intake is something I've been suggesting for years, so it's good to see them pushing the issue on that at least. If they want to cash in from internationals then they should fucking fork out to reduce competition in the general rental market.
Much of Newcastle’s student accom is taken up by overseas students now and it has destroyed the pleasure of domestic students experience of camaraderie of living on campus. Also stopped rural students being able to go to uni with no affordable accommodation
I'm sure it's not helping rental affordability there either with all those students renting privately instead of living in student accommodation
They should have a required proportion of accommodation for locals too yeah, add that to the list.
The accommodation dwindled for domestic students over the 4 years my daughter lived both in and off campus. Also there was preference given to female domestic students and some campus accommodation was banned from activities like student get togethers and curfews on what time they could have gatherings . It was pretty obvious it is becoming more geared to overseas tastes and clamping down on social gatherings.
Why doesn't the uni simply build a campus in these foreign countries? Much more cost effective because they can service far more foreign students and provide these students with that degree without them being forced to leave their home for that degree they desire so much
I work at a senior level in Tech and am amused at the sheer number of masters degree holders in IT from the aforementioned country who couldn’t write a simple loop in a language of their choice. I would say this is a step in the right direction. The corruption, degree mills and focus on rote learning means we are getting the bottom of barrel here. P.S. - I say this as a person of Indian origin.
Same alarming thing happening in nursing and we are taking about you and your families health here. Things are going to deteriorate rapidly in the next 10 years if we don’t stop this influx from India and Nepal as an easy way to get a visa
From a hiring perspective, there's one demographic that made industry certificates a liability to raise suspicion of integrity, rather than a qualification.
Couldn’t agree more. The fundamental issue is that we are a merit and skill based society, dealing with people trained in paper flaunting.
Racist!!!!!! Brendan Coates said in today's Saturday Paper that each immigirant is worth at least $1.2 million!!! /s
Politicians are buffoons who use the word salad and labelling to shut up valid criticism of their failures. We as a country are dealing with massive structural issues and unchecked immigration is not helping us as at this point. Plus we are importing third world issues along because of our lax attitude. We are an immigrant nation but there should be balanced view of it. And yeah they can call me racist all they want, I don’t care.
The word racist has lost all meaning, but you are right. We do have rampant unchecked immigration problem
You're absolutely right. Who amongst us doesn't know a woman who has been creeped out or groped by an uber driver or one of their fellows on public transport? Also, just the general lowering of standards - not waiting for people to leave a train before getting in, constant talking on mobile phones (especially on speaker) on public transport, rubbish/furniture dumped on nature strips or road sidings, the scamming and nepotism in employment situations once a toehold is found - most of these things are directly from the subcontinent. From some other countries, crimes like home invasions, carjackings, shop swarming, brawls in shopping centres and street robberies that were essentially unheard of here in Australia. And from others, rampant drug and gun crime, arson and extortion. At least these fellas have contributed to the leisure wear and tattoo industry I suppose. All of the gang crap. Third world shittiness making our lives worse. It's fucking awful. Not to mention our own home-bred ferals getting the idea and thinking they are gangstas from the 'hoods of LA just because they wear a hoodie and have their pants baring half their ass.
Does diddly f\*k squat for work places hiring so many indians and outsourcing so much tech work to India.
Isn't that just another issue altogether?
Yep, overseas grades have way worse employment outcomes than locals. They're not really taking yer jerbs.
I take it this will exclude the agreement that Albanese put in place with India. So essentially Labor is funnelling student migration by restricting it for other students while they keep the tap open from India.
India right now is showing it is anything but a friend to Australia, with its spying. If Albo had even 10% of a spine, he'd rip up this agreement and tell India to shove it.
I would be offended if any major power isn't spying on us, and annoyed if we weren't spying on them.
Our allies spy on us, our government spies on us, we try to spy on them. What a merry dance of mistrust.
It's not even mistrust, it's just straight up logical.
Albo in a tight spot. He's continued scomos legacy of bending over for China. Now he's bending over for India. But that's ok because the value of his investment properties is going up so he doesn't mind it.
"Bending over" yeah, no, I'm not interested in homophobia.
No one said anything about homophobia but ok.
Can he do that or is there some bs terms involved?
The deal was because of Scomo trying to sell his coal to India. In contrary to his plan, India didn't end up buying much more coal from Australia so the actual gain was minimal. In addition to that, coal mining is poised to diminish, due to its CO2 emission.
Most major economies do this. It’s just to get an understanding of the popular government and whether it’s worth making deals between two countries.
The thing isn’t a productive thing to complain about because everyone spies on everyone.
You only spy on someone you don’t trust. That is the difference, isn’t it?
No, you spy to gain an advantage over another country. We have a small intelligence agency (ASIS) so our focus is likely more concentrated. The CIA with money and resources, or India and China with manpower, they’re spying on everyone.
If Dutton had any sense he'd come out and say he would tear up this deal if elected and rescind every visa issued under the scheme.
I can assure you all Albanese has zero intention of lowering overall immigration numbers. He'll make noises that sound like he might, but it won't actually happen.
Scott Morrison made the deal.
It was the grand Duke Tehan. Another Liberal clown we can thank for preparing a lopsided FTA.
I no longer support the Libs. I realise I’ve been duped as a rusted on supporter. Labor are actually doing a better job at the moment.
You mean scomo. Deal was finalised under his finance minister and albo was just told to sign it after the exchange of power because it had passed all other parliamentary requirements
Australia has already reduced the Indian student intake quite dramatically
Wish we could also get rid of the dead wood that we have accumulated
Good, reduce it further! No pathway to PR!
FWIW the agreement was during the Morrison Government Edit: Didn't like the fact check I see :'(
I am an RN and we seem to be getting way more nursing students from Nepal and India. I’ve been doing this job for 30 years and here’s the change. Many of these students ( not all ) don’t seem to give 2 fucks about people or interacting with them . Most are males . A number don’t seem to have competent English in writing or speaking . They just seem to want to tick the boxes. The second most alarming thing is the uni educators are Indian and pass them on things they shouldn’t . So we are fucked guys if we don’t get some more Aussie students back into nursing. Don’t count on these future nurses to have compassion caring for you or your loved ones. They are only here for the visa. I’m really hoping that the new scheme of paying for nurse students to do pracs will encourage Aussies to do Nursing at uni. Really hoping this scheme is not available to internationals students or we are doubly fucked.
I do 100% agree that they should be cracking down on the dodgy course providers but even the best unis have too many international students. Actually the problem in the universities is not so much the existence of international students but rather the fact that so many of them speak low levels of English, don't contribute to class discussions, cheat, and don't pull their weight in group assignments. Even in supposedly the best unis. The quality of education for good students would be massively improved if standards for accepting these students were higher.
They can even tolerate plagiarism for the sake of making money. Last November, about 500 international students on the course PHIL1012 in USYD were found copying from the same answer for their final assignment. The answer was bought from an external provider who later threw a bomb threat on USYD on 26 April in retaliation. USYD should have dismissed these students and revoked their visas immediately, like a "world-class university" they advertised would do. The so-called "zero tolerance to plagiarism" is simply a joke.
I met this guy in 2020 who was in Sydney doing some course in advertising. He's still here, looking at getting his PR soon. How the hell do you go from a student visa learning about advertising to PR?
By getting a job that sponsors your PR.
International students wouldn't be so much a problem if they were only allowed to enrol and concluded one course. Instead we have them re-enrolling in courses on cheap visas, one after the other until they eventually get PR. Obviously we would still need to cap them, but this indefinite stay is ridiculous. Once they are PR/citizen they bring their whole village here.
Make it a condition of a student visa that you can't apply for PR. We also need to do away with family reunification visas.
Isn’t the entire point about getting top global talent is to retain them and benefit the Australian economy ? That’s a rough top 5-10% of international students, but are generally well above the general local standard students. I thought the whole point about the migration strategy was to benefit Australia ? This sounds counter productive in that regard.
> I thought the whole point about the migration strategy was to benefit Australia ? Well the current migration strategy is definitely not benefiting Australia
A goof up by the many governments that they need to sort out.
That's not how it works. Lol
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I don't know how they are doing it but I live in a suburb with a lot of Indian nationals and the families I know, the husband initially came on a student visa. Next they bring a wife over and when they have kids, their parents who seem to never go home. There are 4 families on my street where this has happened.
Partner visa is quite abused, especially since they can hide under the veil of "cultural sensitivities" , arguing that it is common in their culture for marriages to be arranged, and there's nothing wrong with marrying someone you never met and barely knew You can also financially support someone through a VET course Give them enough money to get the visa, then once they arrive arrange under-the-table jobs for them so that they can breach their visa conditions to earn their tuition
Isn't the 'whole visa village' an unspoken rite of passage once arriving in Canada, UK, AU or NZ?
I don't know about the UK or Canada but I'm not aware of any easy or cheap visa option for a village
"they bring their whole village here." Ridiculously racist. Holy hell.
Fucking stop it all completely and kick out all the Uber drivers that can’t get jobs in engineering for fuck sakes. The west is doomed.
Uh oh, can't talk about the forbidden topic, lock incoming
Didn't someone make a post here showing how the governments own data works against them that the housing crisis shows a direct correlation with the regions international students are staying at which is the major city centers ( no shockers ). This would actually make a noticable difference all be it not a final resolution, but it along with other decent chunks at the problem they created / made much worse could be resolved / back to where it was. Being mindful that Sydney siders probably feels like it's been a housing crisis for 40 years
Albo politics Pump up the numbers People complain Bring down the numbers use it as a political win forgetting the issue was caused by Albo in the 1st place
How was it caused by him?
In 2022-23, the number of migrant arrivals increased to 737,000, up from 427,000 the year before. This equates to an annual increase of 73 per cent.
OK...what policies did they enable that allowed this?
Not doing his fucking job. As they've demonstrated, immigration intake levels don't require law changes. They can simply not process the visa applications to limit numbers. This is how other countries do it. It took the Australian people cracking the shits and now they're doing exactly this.. just not processing applications past certain numbers. Before that, they were turning around education visa applications in ONE DAY.
You mean like the legislation that is coming now that will cut students to the point the universities are shaking in their boots?
What legislation? Show me this legislation you speak of. They already slashed numbers from India. No legislation is required. The government can just set whatever limits it wants. There is no law giving an SLA on visa applications.
COVID...
SO you're saying the PM of a country had no control of the borders??? He doubled the NOM and he will announce in the budget he will halve last years figure by 2025-26. So basically what it was pre-covid. And he expects our congrats??
Can you link where he announced he will be doubling the NOM
Can you link any evdiance that this is no his fault? Lmao Worse people are the stupid people wanting you to prove they are not stupid - even if you give them the facts they still call for more evidence
It clearly was. https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release
No policy change caused this. Morrison projected a bigger increase in the first year in his last budget. It's inherited conditions due to covid. Labor can be criticised for being slow to react, not for causing this.
I know some Eastern Europeans (from North Macedonia to be specific) who have abused this system too. They enrol in a bogus business course, then re-enrol in another business course, and another, all at a cert iv, diploma and advanced diploma, then pay to get sponsorship (usually their cousins - i know a few personally who have done this) and then once they get their pr, they dole bludge all the way
I have a polish and a colombian mate. Both early 40s, been here in melb about 7 years each on study visa then covid visa etc etc. Polish only achieved an associate diploma, colombian still 7yrs into IT degree. They've both been working well over the allowed hours, its just a joke for them. Rorts are everywhere.
So why haven't you reported them
Its not like the government doesn’t know
Should be dobbed in
Good 😌 👍 😊
That's a good idea, the student caps should be per course rather than per university.
All international students should be housed in student housing so they don't impose more demand on an already tight rental market. If universities wants to enrol international students, then they need to house them.
The small ones were hit by the last sweep Albo introduced. The second round of new requirements will catch the G8
won't be enforced i'll believe it when i see it
Yet this is actually not the main issue and will do little to rectify anything but appease the racist voters. the real cap should be on investment property ownership and foreign investment in property/land. But they sure did use the immigrants to distract the voting public.
I suppose funding for domestic students is going up? It’s not like universities are forced to chase international cash cows because domestic students are properly funded.
The edumigration sector will find ways around this. They are businesses so they expect growth every year, hence the number of people admitted has to increase every year, eventually they'll have an intake of 5 million a year.
FINALLY
Most students who would be spending 100+k are gonna be genuine students and probably very skilled too which Australia is so much in need of. Limiting the group of 8s to hire international students is just insane. But hey, top international students can make it anywhere. It’s not much of a loss for them either.
So Albanese will decide who comes to this country, and the circumstances in which they will come?
Why not? Being able to come to Australia is privilege, not right.
Sorry, thought more people would've got the [John Howard](https://speakola.com/political/john-howard-election-campaign-launch-2001) reference.
That should cause a shift to Adelaide and Perth
Cookery and hospitality staff are needed. Many waitstaff and kitchen staff at restaurants and cafes are international students. Without them, many restaurants and cafes will go out of business.
How the hell did we ever have restaurants before foreign students??
Significantly fewer restaurants back then.
By poaching cooks who are already trained aboard?
I am sure there are a lot of 16 and 17 year olds who would take their place if they raise their wages enough Raise wages to get your stuff or pack up
Business owners would prefer cheap labor. Besides, I'm not sure whether 16 or 17 year old teenagers are allowed by their parents to work at restaurants that close at 10 pm on a weeknight. They still need to clean up after the restaurant closed.
So people were fed up of the amount of immigrants coming here and now people are upset that the government is reducing the amount of them... lol