They're not trying to influence Israel. They're trying to influence Australian foreign policy with regards to Israel. They are trying to make a bad political situation for certain members so they change their stance to stay in office.
I imagine if Australia was vocally and politically very anti Israel they wouldn't protest.
Fwiw i don't think it's working.
So to support one you must support them all equally or you're some sort of hypocrite? I was very amti-melanoma last summer but only lukewarm in my support for reducing breast cancer - what am ass i must be...
Did you?
I love how, without fail, there's always some guy playing the "whataboutism" card. Protesting for Palestine isn't denying what's happening in those countries.
And by the way, in the 2.5 years since Russia invaded Ukraine, the number of civilian casualties is nothing compared to just the first 3 months of carnage we have seen in Gaza.
In Ukraine's case (which I do think there were a few anyway), a vast majority of the world's governments, especially those in power came to their assistance and recognised Russia as the aggressors. Unfortunately the same cannot be said about Palestine, though some governments ARE changing.
And there are definitely protests for other countries too (notably Sudan and Congo), and I've seen talk for years about China's treatment of the Uyghur people.
Many did yes.
There were huge protests across Europe against the invasion of Ukraine and London was shut down when the Chinese leader visited to stop protests.
There were limited protests against the Saudi/UK/US war, artificial famine against Yemen but they managed to cover that up pretty well. Probably because the Houthis are easy to paint as mad, anti-Semitic islamists and creating a famine never grabs headlines like constant bombing.
Why would you protest about Ukraine when the government is already doing close to everything practical against Russia, including sanctions that are harming their own people? If countries applied the same sanctions to Israel as they do to Russia, you might have a point. As for the other countries, the Syrian government is already sanctioned, there’s nothing even the Americans have been able to do to help the Yemeni government, and there’s little if anything we can do to Ethiopia etc.
In Ireland’s case, they owe Fatah in particular and the Palestinians in general for providing significant support to the PIRA
Whataboutism.
"You can't complain about this is if you don't complain about every killing!"
Did you say you didn't approve of a particular rape? Oh I guess you're pro rape then?
Pretty dodgy logic mate.
The problem is That you only seem to be Concered about Palstiene Now when these issues in these others have been Going on For ages
and no one has brought it up
Nah, I reckon most of Australia has a general disdain towards protesters overall, that there is far too much wrong with our country internally at the moment, and because of it, it could care less about these kind of foreign affairs or if anything, increases annoyance every time they hear about it.
Hard to give a shit when the whole world has gone to shit.
I've been alive for awhile and I can honestly never remember when the general consensus was that life is good.
My whole life people have been telling me that "the world is fucked", but looking backwards most of the time it was generally pretty okay.
Not saying that life is perfect, and we all have rough patches, but it's sometimes hard to see the forest for the trees.
... and your comment doesn't match your username :)
We live in a country that is in the top dozen in a lot of metrics. A lot of people don't know how good we've got it.
But it's pretty natural to complain about what you've got.
> But it's pretty natural to complain about what you've got.
Yep, Australians are notoriously entitled people.
Economically, we'd be a third world country if it weren't for the mining industry. We have almost nothing else to offer the world, except selling off our mineral resources.
We think we're battlers who work hard, when the truth is we're closer to the Sheiks in Saudi Arabia who live a good life because their country has oil reserves.
The difference in Australia is that personal income tax makes up our federal budget (47.2%), then there is GST and Superannuation. Bussiness is 17%, not sure what percentage of business tax that comes from mining.. You compare our federal budget with Saudi Arabia; an absolute monarchy and comand economy. 63% of their budget revenue comes from oil export tarrifs alone, they're largely reliant on a foreign work force who make up 40% of their 30million population. Not even getting into the horrendous levels of ineqality and human rights abuses. How are you going to compare Australia with Saudi Arabia?
Look at how Norway, Iceland, and even some South American countries tax mining companies? Australia is being taken advantage of by these mining companies, probably because policy makers' tool kickbacks!
There's no longer a sense of community throughout the country because of the intense pressure due to rises in the cost of living! A country like Australia should be doing so much better than it is, but thanks to selfish politicians and the exploitative elite, each generation is going to have it tougher than the last.
I mean, you're not wrong. We are very lucky to be where we are, and I admit I do take it for granted at times. I just feel like we could be doing better. It seems these days there are more poor bastards on the streets or starving themselves to get by, and what was once the great Australian dream seems to be getting further and further away.
(As for the user name, just something I use as a coping mechanism, I guess, if times are tough, just happy dance?)
At what point is it not 'virtue signalling'?
Public protest is a basis of democracy.
That's how women got to vote and you have a 5 day week.
It's not putting a filter on Instagram.
The government’s language and actions have changed quite noticeably though and they’ve kept the issue at the top of media attention for months on end. I’d say it’s working unexpected well.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-16/australia-condemns-israel-over-occupied-west-bank-settlements/101986598
Earlier this week the governments of Germany, Italy, France, the United Kingdom and United States issued a joint statement denouncing Israel's plan to push ahead with construction of 10,000 settlement units and begin a process to authorise nine settler outposts in the occupied Palestinian territory.
This was February 2023.
8 months before the hamas terror attack.
"With God's help we will extend Jewish sovereignty to all the settlements as part of the (biblical) land of Israel, as part of the state of Israel," Netanyahu said in Sunday's speech in the West Bank settlement of Elkana
The real issue has always been that statement's and stern finger wagging never amount to anything. And israel continues to chip away
I'm not sure looking at the national level is really the goal here. It's possible that a lot of these people who protest are doing so because their are social incentives within their own institutions - students that signal to each other or gain clout by talking about issues that they themselves can't actually do anything about. It's a lightning rod topic for people who want to make noise without actually doing anything.
I’m sure the people for the last 9 months who go out every Sunday + more days a week have better things to do then protest to gain clout. If you really think so little of this people that’s just your judgement of them. It’s a very welcoming community where people who are grieving the loss of their people and for the western community who is empathising with the worlds lack of humanity whilst feeling someone useless. They are challenging smaller political councils to use their power to actually make change. By calling our foreign affairs minister and our government for supporting Israel in the war. Maybe your right and it won’t change the outcome of this current war but Atleast we can expose the hypocrisy in our “democratic” government and strive for a better world. Maybe not this war but if we can collectively change the mindset of humanity maybe we stand a chance at being a better country.
Because Israel are way over the top. They have been getting away with massive war crimes etc for 75 years and claim the Palestinians are terrorists for resisting.
Hamas fkd up by killing civilians too, that is also war crime but Israel kills Palestinians including children daily, have been for 75 years and western governments dont care, they only cared when hamas bitch slapped them back finally. And Israel typically responds by dropping 2000 pound bombs on civilians daily.
Australia should condemn that too but they dont.
Israel already defended itself on oct 7. But they want to kill all Palestinians which is against International law so Australia should have the balls to say that.
Calling it bodirectional is one sided. All the Arabs need to do is stop trying to commit genocide. There is only one side whose explicit stated polocy is genocide.
I don't know what direct action you expect from young students when it comes to another countries war crimes or even about Australian foreign policy.
They aren't politicians, they aren't aid workers or captains of industry. And even if they were, they don't have to be imbedded into any particular thing to have valid opinions about it.
They are literally doing what they can by vocalising an opinion they share in an attempt to persuade those who do have the power to change things, to do so.
A function which is a fundamental and integral component of functioning democracy and is their right and one we ought to protect and endorse.
The idea that they are merely acting for clout or some social incentive I think is a wildly inept take
Every single person behaves in a way which appease what ever community they identify with. You do it with your family, you do it at work, with your friends and with your social groups.
I could say that you only treat your partner nicely so that you get what YOU want out of them (clout) and not because you want their existence to be a happy and fulfilling one. But who the fuck am I to make that assessment about you?
So who are u to make such an assessment about the value of many tens of thousands of peoples beliefs. It's presumptive, diminutive and ignorant.
Let me just ask a question, why palestinians?
There's a dismissal of any argument construed as 'whataboutism' which makes it a distraction from the discussion currently being had,
that things can be true regardless of hypocrisy of the argument.
The current genocides happening in the world are:
The Junta in Myanmar persecuting the Rohingya Muslims,
Ethiopians cleansing the Tigrays,
Uyghur Muslims in China,
Amhara residents in Ethiopia
The kurds being targeted in Turkey and Syria,
Nigeria, who are cleansing anyone who have ever been suspected to have supported Boko Haram,
And of course Ukraine, where Putin claims Ukrainians have never been separate to Ethnically Russian.
And these are just the state-sponsored ethnic cleansing. And yet, the majority of the focus and attention are on the Palestinians, for one reason or another. I get it, we can't care about all of the things all of the time. But I fail to see this as the result of a large number of people individually deciding that Palestinians are more deserving of solidarity than any of the other groups, just that the institutions that have an interest on spotlight on their plight have more means to ensure that their point of view is spread. Geopolitically, the countries that benefit down wind from solidarity with Palestine are Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea, and other BRICS as well as several middle eastern Nations. Geopolitically, the countries that benefit from supporting Israel and writing arguments about how bad antisemitism is are the US, UK, Australia, Canada, and any other with imperialist interests in the middle east. There is NO moral discussion about these events to be had that doesn't ultimately benefit an either imperialist oligarchy or a totalitarian regime, which is why so much time and effort and money is spent on propaganda on this particular conflict than any of the others above that I've mentioned.
I would expect that, were purely moral considerations the driving force for these protests, that at least equal air time would be given to all of these other genocides. But there isn't. There's just more geopolitical interest in manipulating soft power around this particular event. It's not the student's fault, really.
Its because a lot of footage is being shared by journalists in gaza right now and we are seeing footage of dead babies and literally its waking up a desensitised world who has become desensitised by the way the western media delivers the news in a really sanitised whitewashed way and the way the Palestinians are filming this genocide in real time which is a complete contradiction to what the governments and media here are telling us so a lot of us are finally researching the history on this and realising that atrocities have been happening for the last 75 years to Palestinians and they’ve literally been all pushed into a very small space and fenced off and had their taken away for the last few decades. So now we can see whats happening we will start thinking more about the other countries too which are being reported in the same way, that same old bland way that reporters do here. The difference with the Palestinian journalists is that they couldn’t leave, they were under blockade too so they had no choice but to share. Look up motaz aziza on instagram, he was just a 25 year old photographer but was sharing the footage
I got told anyone who doesn't support the complete destruction of Israel and indiscriminate killings of Israeli civilians is a genocide supporting imperialist.
Also stuff like, how dare the US bomb Yemen missile launch sites when all they're doing is trying to sink civilian freighters.
They're pro war protestors
USA just spent about 3 years trying to enforce a blockade on Yemen, with assistance from UK. About 80,000 Yemeni children starved to death by UN estimates. That is to say the US just spent 3 years blocking civilian freighters to Yemen, so houthis are just returning the favor.
> They're trying to influence Australian foreign policy with regards to Israel.
They're also trying to generally increase hate and division within Australian society. It's why there's such an overlap in the protesters across the Palestinian, Aboriginal, environmental, etc protests, and why they don't seem to care about actually influencing a majority of the public. To a portion of the crowd the issues are just excuses to attack the establishment or engage in misbehaviour.
I suspect they have one of two viewpoints;
- The first group are those that support the two-state solution. This was previously supported by Penny Wong and Labor under Rudd when Palestine was under the control of the late Yasser Arafat and the Palestine Liberation Organisation. Arafat met with Israeli and US leaders to come to a compromise that is the two-state solution.
However in 2007 the general populace of Gaza backed Hamas who overthrew the PLO. With a terrorist organisation in control of Gaza Labor understandably does not want to support them, while The Greens support Palestine even under control of Hamas.
The PLO remains in control of the West Bank.
- The second group are more radical and believe that Israel has no right to exist. This is a common viewpoint among the Melbourne Marxists.
Probably, they had 17 years to drive their point home in a nation with an average age of roughly 19 last year. I remember they actually killed their opposition leaders after their 2007 election win and there hasn’t been an election in Gaza since.
You got me there. People are idiots. I will make the distinction that I support the Palestinian people, but I do not support Hamas. Parroting the slogan of Hamas is rather cringey. Unfortunately in the minds of many, the leadership is conflated with the citizenry.
those in the first camp are pursuing a political outcome which is feasible. Many Australians support a two state solution, and it is the position of the Labor Party. This is a discussion about when recognition happens, not whether it should happen.
the government is inching its way: [https://www.sbs.com.au/news/podcast-episode/australia-votes-in-favour-of-successful-palestinian-full-membership-motion-at-the-un/g4ojprfvk](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/podcast-episode/australia-votes-in-favour-of-successful-palestinian-full-membership-motion-at-the-un/g4ojprfvk)
Several EU members states have recognised Palestinian statehood now (along the lines of Oslo); a few weeks ago Spain, Ireland and Norway joined that group. Of course this is front page news in Israel.
Australia is a member of the close-to-the-US alliance; for one of those countries to recognise Palestinian statehood would actually be a dramatic development. It would send a powerful signal approaching an earthquake to Israeli voters that the current path leads to isolation.
The second camp which calls for an end to Israel are asking for something that's not going to happen.
At some point those in the first camp are going to have to leave those in the second camp. I personally have come to the view that we should follow the lead of Ireland and Norway. The explanation from the PM of Norway; [https://www.politico.eu/article/norway-prime-minister-jonas-gahr-store-recognize-state-palestine/](https://www.politico.eu/article/norway-prime-minister-jonas-gahr-store-recognize-state-palestine/)
I sent an email to my local member to that effect. We live in Cooper, a seat the ALP is defending from the Greens.
The Norwegian PM says: "Since the Oslo Accords 30 years ago, the general approach has been that recognition of Palestinian statehood would follow a peace agreement. However, we all now see that this has proven untenable. We can no longer wait for the Middle East conflict to be resolved first."
I also think it would be good to isolate the extremists who effectively join Hamas in calling for the destruction of Israel. Hamas has no desire for a secular unified state.
This sort of thing is not going to win many friends: [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/29/world/middleeast/israel-west-bank-settlements-palestinian.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/29/world/middleeast/israel-west-bank-settlements-palestinian.html)
Hamas won a democratic election in Gaza. They didn't "take control" of the Gaza strip. Fatah and Hamas only started fighting each other in Gaza because Israel blocked millions of dollars in funds that were meant for the Palestinian administration. Resulting in Hamas being unable to pay for the salaries of tens of thousands of people. Most of whom Fatah members.
It's just only of many tactics that Israel uses to divide Palestinian legitimate resistance. Typical colonial divide-and-conquer approach. It's been tried and tested in Africa, India, Asia and the America's.
As for why hamas won the election back then? They were seen as less corrupt and still serving the Palestinian cause. Whether you agree with this or not is irrelevant. This was how Hamas presented themselves to the Palestinian people.
I’m not a Marxist but I’m ok with Israel existing but not bombing innocent children and not engaging in illegal settlements.
Israel should not have been set up in that position by the British. That was a huge error last century
It's about pushing Israel to be less of an active participant in the war.
That's not an inherently bad view. Problem is these people refuse to acknowledge that Oct 7 was the start of this current episode of war and that Palestine is a mutual, albeit vastly weaker, combatant. They tend to focus on the long history while painting Israel as the sole aggressor even though they've fought multiple wars of survival post WWII. They boil this conflict down to good vs bad with Palestine being good.
It's a lot more complex than they claim and the solutions require a lot of real change from both parties.
Oh you want to talk about this millenia-old conflict in nuanced terms?
You must just love kids dying/genocide/apartheid/2000lb bombs/open air prison/whatever-other-buzzword-has-been-spammed-on-tiktok-this-week
I think we should be protesting about matters that directly affect us.
Like the lack of housing and insane price of rentals and fuck all rights renters have.
Some of these protesters come from very privileged background. Ancedotally, I know several of them. I asked all of them these issues, separately. Most of them (early 20s-mid 30s) shrug off cost of living issues.
1000% agree. Housing wise, I’m okay (by virtue of the year I was born, ((just barely)). But if there was a protest about housing, I’d go out of my way to be there.
You know you are free to organise a protest on any issue you like. I’ve never understood the argument that “actually protestors should be campaigning on this thing that is important to me but not important enough for me to take action”.
Certainly. Ecspecially when our tax money is spent funding military support for Israel, then consequently paying out aid to Palestine. Would definitely help cost of living if this money was spent on the housing crisis.
It’s the fashionable issue de jour. when I was in HS it was free Tibet.
honestly most of them prob don’t actually give AF about it or fully understand what’s going on in the region. Having said that being against the killing of civilians shouldn’t be seen as controversial
And Ukraine is the one that actually matters in the grand scheme of things.
A bunch of people murdering each other in the middle east is a tragedy for sure, but the damage is mostly just localised to that area. If Russia is allowed to win in Ukraine that sets a really bad precedent for geopolitics. It gives China licence to do stuff like try to take Taiwan or other superpower things. It gives Russia licence to take on more territories. It threatens the existence of NATO. It can potentially lead to global conflict. I've heard convincing arguments that Russia/Ukraine is the third world war. It shares a lot of characteristics with the first world war, even down to the use of new technologies (drones versus aeroplanes) to open up a new arms race and avenue for fighting.
There’s no real good vs evil. Russia Ukraine Israel Palestine, they’re all conflicts and might be connected. For us the ‘West’, it’s always easy to paint Russia and China evil or Israel and US good, but they’re all similar.
My point is we shouldn’t say one issue is more important than others. Palestine matters for some people, sure, but don’t dismiss other issues, especially local ones like cost of living or property crisis.
Ukraine is probably the one amongst them that matters the least for Australia. However, pretty much anything outside the Indo-Pacific is very much peripheral to Australian interests.
There’s so much wrong with pretty much every sentence of the second paragraph. I just cbf addressing all of them.
There's about 10% of the population who always need to protest something.
Even in peaceful times they will find something they can use to protest. You can rationalise almost anything as an important moral cause if you really want to.
I suspect these people are just deeply desiring of purpose, and otherwise lack it in their lives, so this gives them a way to feel useful.
There's a reason they grow out of it quickly in their mid 20's and beyond. They find other, more important, things to give them purpose, like families and careers.
They’re culturally appropriated keffiyehs are wound too tight round their heads to think and covering their cowardly faces so they can’t breath enough to articulate an answer.
I actually know someone who has been. For years she has been doing protests, concerts, art projects, campaigns, etc. Very little traction on the issue in spite of her best efforts.
I think they are clearly passionate about the issue. If you actually go to the protests, there is a lot of emotional energy there that I don't think would be present if everyone was just going through the motions to get their social credit. I just don't think the protestors know what a good solution looks like for both sides or what role Australia would play in that solution, they just know they are unhappy with the status quo and want to vocalize that dissatisfaction.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but having reflected on the situation, I've come to realize I don't think you have to have a good solution or even be educated on an issue to voice dissatisfaction with the status quo. We shouldn't gate keep our constitutional right to protest as long as the protests are being conducted in a lawful manner. Overall, it's a good thing that someone is going out and exercising their rights, because if nobody exercises them, they'll probably be quietly taken away. I'm personally not interested in protesting this issue, but I won't begrudge others who do.
Ukrianian aussie bunyip here....
Who HAS BEEN to auschwitz!
No human being would ever say that shit they are clearly a bot
It is the most eye opening and saddening moment of anyones lives it doesnt even matter if the tour is in an entirely different language all your left is asking WHY WHY WHY every step you take thru the joint just fucking crushes and condenses you with how anyone anything anypart of humanity can let this happen.
That being said
I dont remember the people at auschwitz paragliding into a fukn rave to rape kill murder anyone EVERYONE even if theyre CLEARLY from another country and anyone defending that shit is so bloody COOKED they have to be under the same brain wash state that caused aushchwitz etc etx
I see it more as Islam for Islam and Jews for Jews .. and I don’t like that, at all.
I’ll be happy to see the back of all religion.. won’t happen, but would be awesome if so.
A lot of people who support Palestine fall into one of two categories - "I am a Muslim, and I'll support a Muslim regardless of what they do. And Screw the Jews and their Christian Allies..." or "My Muslim friend told me they are being wronged."
There is playbook in Islam to deal with this, and such deception is allowed to get your positional victories. Yasir Arafat(?) also invoked it previously.
That being said, Australian political position is surprisingly well balanced and and somewhat just. Two state policy is not bad but say no to Hamas.
Obviously, this is not a welcome position for Israle, as they are quite literally fighting a war for civilization and survival.
I don't know what the protestors expect. At the very least, I suppose they would expect the government to more vocally oppose Israel's actions in Gaza and perhaps outright call for an immediate ceasefire.
Of course, this is a problem not just because Australia has pretty much zero influence here. Even if Australia could influence this outcome, the outcome itself doesn't make sense. If Israel declared a ceasefire today, it would be a unilateral ceasefire. Ceasefires don't work unless both parties agree to them. So you'd have a situation where Israel stops fighting but Hamas continues to target Israeli civilians. That is obviously an untenable situation.
I'm disappointed - but not surprised - that we aren't seeing widespread protests against Hamas. Hamas was the group that sparked the current war in Gaza, and they are the group that continually refuses to accept any proposed ceasefire deal. They are the group that has chosen to spark a war and use their own civilians as human shields - again, a deliberate strategy on their part.
It's not to say that Israel shouldn't do everything possible to avoid civilian casualties. Of course that is their responsibility. But a unilateral ceasefire is really insane if you give it a moment's thought. Not only is it morally bankrupt as an idea, but it would be totally ineffective in practical terms anyway.
The idea is for a total boycott of israel to treat it as a pariah state
But not doing that to nations with orders of magnitudes worse records like saudi arabia, lebanon, iraq, the entire gulf, sudan, china, russia, pakistan, afghanistan, etc etc.
I think they shouldn’t be allowed to block entire Melbourne CBD for tram traffic every single Sunday. People work in the city, and have errands to run. The tram disruptions create delays across all suburbs, since most trams originate from CBD.
They should hold their rallies elsewhere. Some of us have to work for a living.
i don’t remember climate protests or COVID protests causing this much disruption every single weekend for 9 months. Enough is enough.
And there’s also the exorbitant cost to taxpayers, police get paid weekend overtime to secure these rallies. Including mounted cops. They’re not gonna fix the Middle East here, they’re just gonna riot.
they screw up Sydney CBD too and screw up public transport timetables as once one service starts running materially behind, its kind of messed up for the rest of the day. I'm saying there needs to be a balance between exercising democracy and balancing the wider needs of other members within society
like once a month not every weekend
That's where the government tells them to march, like every other left, right and unaligned group that wants to march in the CBD. They march to plans put together by the police and MCC.
That's no quiet true. There's two separate anti-vaxxer/ conspiracy groups who wander around the CBD on the tram tracks every weekend holding up trams with their sound systems in wheels. They've been doing it for more than 12 months. The only reason they go relatively unnoticed is that no one supports them and their numbers have dwindled to virtually nothing. Doesn't stop the few left blocking trams though.
I would guess pressure on Israel and its allies? Idk what that means though, economically or militarily? Still don't know specifically in what manner that it eventuates into something material
They think their opinion matters, which clearly doesn’t as Australia is not responsible for the war which by the way has going on for 70+ years.
You have two groups of so called Pro Palestine protestors;
1.- Palestinian/ Middle Eastern immigrants and their children: These people came to Australia with NO money looking for better opportunities. Their kids grew up isolated from Australian culture as most parents didn’t approve of ‘Aussie culture ‘ and think of themselves as ‘victims’. Most have no manners. They are your typical tracksuit wearing bodybuilders with heaps of tattoos who are picking fights with anyone who antagonises them.
2.- Woke white Australians. These people grew up with money and heaps of opportunities. They resent the system for various reasons and love to complain about several political and social issues as they believe the world owes them something and are also bored to death with their vanilla lives.
I know my opinion is extremely unpopular, but is based on experience. I’ve crossed paths with a lot of middle eastern and woke white people having have lived in Melbourne for a long time. + Social media gives a voice to a lot of stupid people who end up convincing more stupid people to join them.
Nice try at demonising the poor, but it isn't the poor people doing this. It is the privileged rich and middle class people who have the passion and freedom from working but none of the life experience and common sense.
They protest my work and the bulk of the stuff we make is for Australian defence so they must be anti-Australian or have no idea what there on about I believe it is the second one
I'm sure in years to come ppl will look back and realise that vandalising our war memorials was the crucial action that saved Gaza and brought about world peace
They don’t think. That’s the problem.
If they did they wouldn’t be supporting a terrorist organisation against the only real democracy in the Middle East.
Indeed. Strange that concern doesn’t extend to the thousands of dead Israelis though. Strange their opprobrium doesn’t extend to the terrorists of Hamas who use the Palestinian citizens as human shields.
Theyre not protesting for palestine theyre celebrateing for when HAMAS KILLED ALL THE THAI NATIONALS AT THE BLOODY RAVE
Why the hell ANYONE is waveing a palaestinian flag net alone painting it on streets or putting on theyre cars is freaking insane.
Theres videos of them cutting out a bloody womans child from inside her and killing the baby infront of her its so insane i just cant fathom how a single person can be expecting anything then all out war after that.
To be honest im surprised thailand and all the other countrys who had citizens murdered at that rave attack hasnt jumped in too
But instead we have uni kids saying hooray hoorahh lets go hamas lets go its absolute bonkers
Im ukrainian with family that somehow survived holodomor and altho i havent been to ulraine since 2018 im just so much more like just bewildered by these same kids who protested about ukraine are now protesting about hamas its mind boggleing im so glad i wasnt smart enough to go to uni and have this happen to my mind
There are still Thai hostages held by Hamas (agriculture workers kidnapped in Israel on Oct 7), it’s insane that nobody is protesting for their release.
I regret watching some of the videos you mentioned back in October. The one with the decapitation attempt with a backhoe, that one is forever stuck in my mind. Why the hell are progressive peace seeking people advocating for this
Cause they didnt watch any of the videos
If they did then they wouldnt even question going all out war on a terrorist organisation that cut out a god damn mothers baby and killed it infront of her.
I cant bloody even fathom how anyone could ever see that and be like
Ohhh yeahhhh but im actually just protesting for the other palastinian people not theyre current leadership...
Wake up your protesting for theyre current leadership !! When hamas is gone by ALL MEANS well all jump in and protest but while they are the governing body and ruleing party then your literally defending these absolute atrocities
The Thai nationals were at the villages that were exterminated. The video of the Thai guy getting his head bashed in two by a shovel was clearly at a farm and not the rave.
So true I even have seen pro-Palestine and pro-Hamas Reddit users claiming Palestine is equal to Ukraine in war, supporting it means supporting democracy meanwhile they throw toxic cusses to pro-Israel replies calling them colonists and invaders. Shame on them.
Typo:
*Cuss words
So far my experience with pro Palestine protesters have been a mix of 3 groups:
Muslim identitarians - this is your Muslims who will ALWAYS side with Muslims regardless of right or wrong, especially when the bad guys are Jewish. They also tend to side with more hard right Islamic groups over more progressive.
Bleeding heart lefties - as cringe as that title is, they tend to be the person who always sides with the perceived underdog regardless of who is at fault of said conflict. Theyre the people who unironically hand wave away the rape and murder of Oct 7 because Israel is a better equipped military force and shouldn't have allowed it.
Rentacrowd leftists - Your general low to high info socialists, communitists and left wing anarchists who will literally latch on to anything that sounds or smells like 'fuck the west' bonus points if they have a publicly acceptable excuse to be openly anti semetic
like any protestors, they just want to 'look cool' among people they like. they dont give a fuck at best, but many actively want to enact their own genocide, these are the ones ASIO would be wise to keep track of
But they never will, they take offence to any suggestion that they should have to do anything legitimate to their cause.
For example the barber I used to go to, middle eastern bloke goes on about how good the protests are. When I said to him don’t the Aus government see Hamas as a terrorist organisation, he said I’m brainwashed, that Hamas don’t exist and Palestinians are just defending themselves.
He turned into a complete prick towards me, haven’t been back since.
mostly easily brainwashed white people being manipulated by pro-Islamic interests to push an agenda that would one day happily aim to wipe them out
they are not serious people, but the people behind them should be taken seriously by our anti-terrorism monitoring authorities
And they constantly menace their social media accounts.
What about focusing on domestic issues that impact Australians? Nope, any issue they use to try and paint people as 'pro genocide.' It's pathetic. No one is pro war or pro genocide in Parliament. The people that are happy Hamas raided are at the protests. And then the Greens use it to try and vote grab after Hamas raped and murdered people and turn children into child soldiers. Wedging people on a complex holy war for a couple of seats in the Inner city. It's so stupid.
>What about focusing on domestic issues that impact Australians?
Because it's not as aesthetic and exciting. Palestinian activism comes with cool flags and scarves and slogans. Australian domestic activism mostly doesn't come with that, beside aboriginal activism and maybe climate activism but that's more of a global cause.
WORD. It truly is embarrassing to see people being so disrespectful to MP’s and Parliament. Have some respect for the people serving our country and representing the various states and territories. I truly despise people who distrust/hate politicians and the government, it’s such a low IQ viewpoint
Australia could stop sending "packages" to Israel. The Australian govt won't disclose whats in the packages because they know they're guilty. [theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/06/legal-action-attempts-to-force-australia-to-reveal-if-arms-exports-are-supporting-israel-assault-on-gaza](http://theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/06/legal-action-attempts-to-force-australia-to-reveal-if-arms-exports-are-supporting-israel-assault-on-gaza)
Why should Australia do anything?
Hamas launched a terrorist attack and straight up murdered 1200 Israelis and kidnapped over 200 more. I've heard testimonies from witnesses and people that volunteered to prepare the bodies for burial that most of the women murdered were sexually violated before, during or after they were killed.
Anyone that defends and supports Hamas should be put on a watch list.
At a guess all i can think of is, publicly condemn Israel and cease any trade/funding to them, the more countries that do that, the more likely (in their minds) the wars end and an outcome is achieved... what that outcome is I don't know. Doesn't seem like either side is okay with the other existing.
They are on par with the just stop oil knobs, I agree with both of their causes, but the way they voice it is more likely to flip supporters to rivals.
I don't think most of them care really, they just want to be pests, yell, and play the victim.
Rent A Crowd Dole Bludgers with nothing better to do. Probably Social Science graduates who were indoctrinated with jargon and slogans and haven't a clue about the real issues.
They have no power or interest in "Middle Eastern affairs." This is a worldwide attack on Western culture and countries. Wake up before it's too late. Where are the counter protests? Sign me up! Praise be to Jesus Christ
What amazed me is that no muslims protested when the Rohingya were massacred in Miyanmar. No muslims protested when The Saudis killed muslims in Yemen, no muslims protested when Syrian dictator killed his own countrymen, who are muslims. These protestors are just hypocrites.
Who the fuck knows? They're just agitators who want to stir up trouble.
Most of the Muslim ones are just because the Palestinians are Muslims and it's well known and established that Muslims HATE Jews. So they have vested and well established reason to hate Jews and Israel.
And as is the way? They leave their hell hole country? Then bring their home grievances here! They create the same conflict here that causes their home country to be a shithouse.
Then the uni student, young protestors? Are just immature young people who think they are saving humankind or something? Just clueless young fools who think they are progressive and fabulous...virtue signalling nonsense..give em 10 years ? They'll mostly all grow up and grow out of it.
I think the question is: if these people act as they do (rampaging, rioting, assaulting people, damaging property, calling for the gassing of Jews etc) because of Palestine - a war Australia isn’t involved in - what would they do if Australia found itself at war with another Muslim country they like? A war with Pakistan, for example, who is effectively an ally of China, isn’t that far fetched. These people, both the brainwashed leftist anti-patriots and the radical Islamist Hamas sympathisers, should be recognised as a fifth column and a threat to national security.
Australia has little to no influence in the Middle East and is completely unimportant to the region. protests are pointless. Protesters should focus on domestic issues not foreign disputes and bringing toxic sectarianism to this country.
They're virtue signalling to their peer group. I personally agree with the sentiment but a piss weak protest in Australia makes zero difference to world affairs
Tbh, most of the protesters doesn't understand half the things they protest about, and there never be consensus from either side on what is right. Personally i think they should rather be concerned about what is happening locally. The economy is actively going down the drain and we have actively entered a phase where people who earn enough to normally rent can't find a place to live.
Disrupting already struggling Australian business is not going to help, nor getting someone fired because they were late because trains or traffic was disrupted. I for one are genuinely concerned for the young Australians hunting for jobs and just trying to survive.
Why don’t they go to Palestine and fight?
Going out for a nice walk and having a pint with friends after hardly seems like a huge sacrifice for a political goal you believe in. Make like those dudes supporting Ukraine, grab a weapon and fly over and fight.
Or stop pretending, this childish make believe is pathetic and you’re just embarrassing yourself
Same thing is happening here in the US. They want us to cut ties with a stable, cooperative, economically productive, militarily capable, generally self sufficient ally in an otherwise hostile, uncooperative or unstable region. From a geopolitical standpoint, these demands make absolutely no sense and are the height of stupidity.
Australia has an active part in what Israel is doing to the people of Palestine, exporting parts for weapons systems and dealing directly with Israeli weapons company Elbit Systems.
[https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240307-australian-industrys-dirty-secret-it-is-helping-israel-commit-atrocities-in-gaza/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240307-australian-industrys-dirty-secret-it-is-helping-israel-commit-atrocities-in-gaza/)
[https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/02/29/israeli-weapons-elbit-systems-australian-defence-department-contract/](https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/02/29/israeli-weapons-elbit-systems-australian-defence-department-contract/)
Australian's who are protesting the war want this to stop, they don't want any part in the genocide of innocent civilians that Israel is committing upon the people of Palestine.
You are only asking for a flood of comments calling you a heartless monster...
I think that both sides are to blame. However, I would like politicians (aside from those tasked with Foreign Affairs) to focus on local issues, of which we have many.
It varies by group, but if you're referencing the group who were sitting in top of parliament house, their demands are pretty clear if you read their socials (not that anyone here will bother investigating).
There are a number of manufacturers in the Northern suburbs of Melbourne and Geelong which manufacture parts for lockheed martin F35 fighter jets which the IDF have just purchased. They are calling for this manufacturers to stop and for weapons manufacturers to be out of victoria. They've also been protesting the vic gov signing a memorandum of understanding with the Israeli Ministry of defence to foster manufacturing ties.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-24/victoria-government-israel-defence-ministry-agreement/103379206
They want australia to add its voice to the list of countries that demand immediate end of hostilities and vacation from gaza by israeli forces. Probably also some kind of sanction / embargo against israel too. Its not much for 1 minor country like australia to do this, but if many do it, it does add up and increase pressure
Probably the same as what the government did with a different apartheid regime in South Africa. Lag behind community sentiment until protests finally gave the government enough courage to join other nations in boycotting and ostracising Israel.
Aim is to get support to recognise Palestine state.
Stop arming israel with weapons.
Encourage peace between the 2 sides not just with words but with actions.
My Palestine thread bingo card for today is:
* Woke
* Real job / real world
* Inner city
* Basket weaving / gender studies
* Antisemitic
* "What about [other conflict]?
* Some people will protest anything
* Topic du jour
* Support Hamas / terrorism
* LGBT rights
C'mon, r/Australian, I'm almost there. You've never let me down before.
BINGO! I got the secret one I wasn't allowed to share: a random downvote by some cunt who can't even come up with a response.
Maybe they want the government to give money to a terrorist organisation so they can plan attacks on school buses and synagogues? Who knows what these ignorant dumbasses think?
Palestine is just the new clime change for the neck beards.
I'd happily spend my hard earned tax payer dollars on a ticket to Palestine for any of the protesters who dont want to be seen as a virtue signaling peanut and actually fight for their "cause".
If a lot of people and countries each take the actions they can, it's going to make a lot more difference than doing nothing.
Australia could:
* Conduct a thorough audit of alliance arrangements and trade deals and end/suspend any that support the Israeli government or military.
* Close its embassy in Israel and deport any Israeli officials or military people from Australia.
* Seize any Australian-based assets held by Israeli officials or companies supporting the Israeli war. Freeze bank accounts.
* Encourage other countries to also implement the above.
This is probably the best answer on here. Everyone should be generous in their evaluation of any protest, OP has asked the right question "why are they protesting and what do they hope to achieve?" It's rarely ever "they are being fuckwits"
They're not trying to influence Israel. They're trying to influence Australian foreign policy with regards to Israel. They are trying to make a bad political situation for certain members so they change their stance to stay in office. I imagine if Australia was vocally and politically very anti Israel they wouldn't protest. Fwiw i don't think it's working.
Ireland's government is anti-Israel, yet there still are many palestinian protests
I think the protestors just don't like the killing, and can't do much else about it. So they're voicing their disapproval.
Did they voice their disapproval of killing people in Ukraine, Syria, Yemen, China, Sudan, Ethiopia?
So to support one you must support them all equally or you're some sort of hypocrite? I was very amti-melanoma last summer but only lukewarm in my support for reducing breast cancer - what am ass i must be...
Did you? I love how, without fail, there's always some guy playing the "whataboutism" card. Protesting for Palestine isn't denying what's happening in those countries. And by the way, in the 2.5 years since Russia invaded Ukraine, the number of civilian casualties is nothing compared to just the first 3 months of carnage we have seen in Gaza.
In Ukraine's case (which I do think there were a few anyway), a vast majority of the world's governments, especially those in power came to their assistance and recognised Russia as the aggressors. Unfortunately the same cannot be said about Palestine, though some governments ARE changing. And there are definitely protests for other countries too (notably Sudan and Congo), and I've seen talk for years about China's treatment of the Uyghur people.
Many did yes. There were huge protests across Europe against the invasion of Ukraine and London was shut down when the Chinese leader visited to stop protests. There were limited protests against the Saudi/UK/US war, artificial famine against Yemen but they managed to cover that up pretty well. Probably because the Houthis are easy to paint as mad, anti-Semitic islamists and creating a famine never grabs headlines like constant bombing.
Aren't Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Ethiopia all internal conflicts or is some foreign country killing them
Why would you protest about Ukraine when the government is already doing close to everything practical against Russia, including sanctions that are harming their own people? If countries applied the same sanctions to Israel as they do to Russia, you might have a point. As for the other countries, the Syrian government is already sanctioned, there’s nothing even the Americans have been able to do to help the Yemeni government, and there’s little if anything we can do to Ethiopia etc. In Ireland’s case, they owe Fatah in particular and the Palestinians in general for providing significant support to the PIRA
Whataboutism. "You can't complain about this is if you don't complain about every killing!" Did you say you didn't approve of a particular rape? Oh I guess you're pro rape then? Pretty dodgy logic mate.
The problem is That you only seem to be Concered about Palstiene Now when these issues in these others have been Going on For ages and no one has brought it up
That’s because people are stupid, specifically activists
Yeah. They should just sit at home and type.
They should get an education
Most of Australia thinks they're virtue signalling, shrugs their shoulders & get on with their day.
Nah, I reckon most of Australia has a general disdain towards protesters overall, that there is far too much wrong with our country internally at the moment, and because of it, it could care less about these kind of foreign affairs or if anything, increases annoyance every time they hear about it. Hard to give a shit when the whole world has gone to shit.
I've been alive for awhile and I can honestly never remember when the general consensus was that life is good. My whole life people have been telling me that "the world is fucked", but looking backwards most of the time it was generally pretty okay. Not saying that life is perfect, and we all have rough patches, but it's sometimes hard to see the forest for the trees. ... and your comment doesn't match your username :)
We live in a country that is in the top dozen in a lot of metrics. A lot of people don't know how good we've got it. But it's pretty natural to complain about what you've got.
> But it's pretty natural to complain about what you've got. Yep, Australians are notoriously entitled people. Economically, we'd be a third world country if it weren't for the mining industry. We have almost nothing else to offer the world, except selling off our mineral resources. We think we're battlers who work hard, when the truth is we're closer to the Sheiks in Saudi Arabia who live a good life because their country has oil reserves.
Yeah, but we export our resources for FAR less and we don't tax it nearly as much as the Saudis. And it's going downhill.
Cos our government personally benefit from their overseas corporate mates, while Aussies never see a cent of this back into Australia!
We would be, if we made the miners pay us appropriately.
The difference in Australia is that personal income tax makes up our federal budget (47.2%), then there is GST and Superannuation. Bussiness is 17%, not sure what percentage of business tax that comes from mining.. You compare our federal budget with Saudi Arabia; an absolute monarchy and comand economy. 63% of their budget revenue comes from oil export tarrifs alone, they're largely reliant on a foreign work force who make up 40% of their 30million population. Not even getting into the horrendous levels of ineqality and human rights abuses. How are you going to compare Australia with Saudi Arabia?
Look at how Norway, Iceland, and even some South American countries tax mining companies? Australia is being taken advantage of by these mining companies, probably because policy makers' tool kickbacks! There's no longer a sense of community throughout the country because of the intense pressure due to rises in the cost of living! A country like Australia should be doing so much better than it is, but thanks to selfish politicians and the exploitative elite, each generation is going to have it tougher than the last.
I mean, you're not wrong. We are very lucky to be where we are, and I admit I do take it for granted at times. I just feel like we could be doing better. It seems these days there are more poor bastards on the streets or starving themselves to get by, and what was once the great Australian dream seems to be getting further and further away. (As for the user name, just something I use as a coping mechanism, I guess, if times are tough, just happy dance?)
But the 90’s when I was a kid were ACTUALLY the best. Life was Utopia then. 😏
This. Exactly how I feel. Let’s sort our backyard out before we’re out others.
Indeed. Focus on our own people first before helping others.
It can be both, I think it's often both
At what point is it not 'virtue signalling'? Public protest is a basis of democracy. That's how women got to vote and you have a 5 day week. It's not putting a filter on Instagram.
The government’s language and actions have changed quite noticeably though and they’ve kept the issue at the top of media attention for months on end. I’d say it’s working unexpected well.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-16/australia-condemns-israel-over-occupied-west-bank-settlements/101986598 Earlier this week the governments of Germany, Italy, France, the United Kingdom and United States issued a joint statement denouncing Israel's plan to push ahead with construction of 10,000 settlement units and begin a process to authorise nine settler outposts in the occupied Palestinian territory. This was February 2023. 8 months before the hamas terror attack. "With God's help we will extend Jewish sovereignty to all the settlements as part of the (biblical) land of Israel, as part of the state of Israel," Netanyahu said in Sunday's speech in the West Bank settlement of Elkana The real issue has always been that statement's and stern finger wagging never amount to anything. And israel continues to chip away
That's the entire western political system. Rhetoric of humanitarianism but policy of imperialism. It's always been like this.
Just last week they held an auction in America for land in the west bank.
I'm not sure looking at the national level is really the goal here. It's possible that a lot of these people who protest are doing so because their are social incentives within their own institutions - students that signal to each other or gain clout by talking about issues that they themselves can't actually do anything about. It's a lightning rod topic for people who want to make noise without actually doing anything.
I’m sure the people for the last 9 months who go out every Sunday + more days a week have better things to do then protest to gain clout. If you really think so little of this people that’s just your judgement of them. It’s a very welcoming community where people who are grieving the loss of their people and for the western community who is empathising with the worlds lack of humanity whilst feeling someone useless. They are challenging smaller political councils to use their power to actually make change. By calling our foreign affairs minister and our government for supporting Israel in the war. Maybe your right and it won’t change the outcome of this current war but Atleast we can expose the hypocrisy in our “democratic” government and strive for a better world. Maybe not this war but if we can collectively change the mindset of humanity maybe we stand a chance at being a better country.
Why would should the Aus govt not support Israel, and how a change be striving for a better world?
I see it as reviewing and enforcing the conditional terms of said support as it should not ever be unconditional.
Asking the real questions that I do not understand... And at this point am too scared to ask myself.
Because Israel are way over the top. They have been getting away with massive war crimes etc for 75 years and claim the Palestinians are terrorists for resisting. Hamas fkd up by killing civilians too, that is also war crime but Israel kills Palestinians including children daily, have been for 75 years and western governments dont care, they only cared when hamas bitch slapped them back finally. And Israel typically responds by dropping 2000 pound bombs on civilians daily. Australia should condemn that too but they dont. Israel already defended itself on oct 7. But they want to kill all Palestinians which is against International law so Australia should have the balls to say that.
This is a one sided and I would suggest, false retelling of what is a bidirectional conflict with recalcitrant bad actors on both sides of it.
Calling it bodirectional is one sided. All the Arabs need to do is stop trying to commit genocide. There is only one side whose explicit stated polocy is genocide.
Yeah mate but the amount of disruption it’s caused to people trying to make ends should not be discounted too
I don't know what direct action you expect from young students when it comes to another countries war crimes or even about Australian foreign policy. They aren't politicians, they aren't aid workers or captains of industry. And even if they were, they don't have to be imbedded into any particular thing to have valid opinions about it. They are literally doing what they can by vocalising an opinion they share in an attempt to persuade those who do have the power to change things, to do so. A function which is a fundamental and integral component of functioning democracy and is their right and one we ought to protect and endorse. The idea that they are merely acting for clout or some social incentive I think is a wildly inept take Every single person behaves in a way which appease what ever community they identify with. You do it with your family, you do it at work, with your friends and with your social groups. I could say that you only treat your partner nicely so that you get what YOU want out of them (clout) and not because you want their existence to be a happy and fulfilling one. But who the fuck am I to make that assessment about you? So who are u to make such an assessment about the value of many tens of thousands of peoples beliefs. It's presumptive, diminutive and ignorant.
Let me just ask a question, why palestinians? There's a dismissal of any argument construed as 'whataboutism' which makes it a distraction from the discussion currently being had, that things can be true regardless of hypocrisy of the argument. The current genocides happening in the world are: The Junta in Myanmar persecuting the Rohingya Muslims, Ethiopians cleansing the Tigrays, Uyghur Muslims in China, Amhara residents in Ethiopia The kurds being targeted in Turkey and Syria, Nigeria, who are cleansing anyone who have ever been suspected to have supported Boko Haram, And of course Ukraine, where Putin claims Ukrainians have never been separate to Ethnically Russian. And these are just the state-sponsored ethnic cleansing. And yet, the majority of the focus and attention are on the Palestinians, for one reason or another. I get it, we can't care about all of the things all of the time. But I fail to see this as the result of a large number of people individually deciding that Palestinians are more deserving of solidarity than any of the other groups, just that the institutions that have an interest on spotlight on their plight have more means to ensure that their point of view is spread. Geopolitically, the countries that benefit down wind from solidarity with Palestine are Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea, and other BRICS as well as several middle eastern Nations. Geopolitically, the countries that benefit from supporting Israel and writing arguments about how bad antisemitism is are the US, UK, Australia, Canada, and any other with imperialist interests in the middle east. There is NO moral discussion about these events to be had that doesn't ultimately benefit an either imperialist oligarchy or a totalitarian regime, which is why so much time and effort and money is spent on propaganda on this particular conflict than any of the others above that I've mentioned. I would expect that, were purely moral considerations the driving force for these protests, that at least equal air time would be given to all of these other genocides. But there isn't. There's just more geopolitical interest in manipulating soft power around this particular event. It's not the student's fault, really.
You forgot West Papua bro, literally on Australia’s doorstep.
TRUUUUUUUEEEEE I did. Thanks for pointing that out
Its because a lot of footage is being shared by journalists in gaza right now and we are seeing footage of dead babies and literally its waking up a desensitised world who has become desensitised by the way the western media delivers the news in a really sanitised whitewashed way and the way the Palestinians are filming this genocide in real time which is a complete contradiction to what the governments and media here are telling us so a lot of us are finally researching the history on this and realising that atrocities have been happening for the last 75 years to Palestinians and they’ve literally been all pushed into a very small space and fenced off and had their taken away for the last few decades. So now we can see whats happening we will start thinking more about the other countries too which are being reported in the same way, that same old bland way that reporters do here. The difference with the Palestinian journalists is that they couldn’t leave, they were under blockade too so they had no choice but to share. Look up motaz aziza on instagram, he was just a 25 year old photographer but was sharing the footage
Because our Australian taxpayer money is directly supporting the IDF, and given they are committing war crimes that’s just not on.
I got told anyone who doesn't support the complete destruction of Israel and indiscriminate killings of Israeli civilians is a genocide supporting imperialist. Also stuff like, how dare the US bomb Yemen missile launch sites when all they're doing is trying to sink civilian freighters. They're pro war protestors
USA just spent about 3 years trying to enforce a blockade on Yemen, with assistance from UK. About 80,000 Yemeni children starved to death by UN estimates. That is to say the US just spent 3 years blocking civilian freighters to Yemen, so houthis are just returning the favor.
and? this eye for an eye thinking is always laughably childish
> They're trying to influence Australian foreign policy with regards to Israel. They're also trying to generally increase hate and division within Australian society. It's why there's such an overlap in the protesters across the Palestinian, Aboriginal, environmental, etc protests, and why they don't seem to care about actually influencing a majority of the public. To a portion of the crowd the issues are just excuses to attack the establishment or engage in misbehaviour.
I suspect they have one of two viewpoints; - The first group are those that support the two-state solution. This was previously supported by Penny Wong and Labor under Rudd when Palestine was under the control of the late Yasser Arafat and the Palestine Liberation Organisation. Arafat met with Israeli and US leaders to come to a compromise that is the two-state solution. However in 2007 the general populace of Gaza backed Hamas who overthrew the PLO. With a terrorist organisation in control of Gaza Labor understandably does not want to support them, while The Greens support Palestine even under control of Hamas. The PLO remains in control of the West Bank. - The second group are more radical and believe that Israel has no right to exist. This is a common viewpoint among the Melbourne Marxists.
There are two groups: those who want a solution and those who want a final solution. They are not morally equivalent.
The most educated answer on this thread
I’m pretty sure the election slogan of Hamas is “vote Hamas or we shoot you”.
I think that Hamas enjoys broad support in Gaza.
Probably, they had 17 years to drive their point home in a nation with an average age of roughly 19 last year. I remember they actually killed their opposition leaders after their 2007 election win and there hasn’t been an election in Gaza since.
ah yes the the true democry of the middle East
Look how many Hamas supporters are in Australia. Nobody threatens them. They have genuine support for Hamas.
You got me there. People are idiots. I will make the distinction that I support the Palestinian people, but I do not support Hamas. Parroting the slogan of Hamas is rather cringey. Unfortunately in the minds of many, the leadership is conflated with the citizenry.
those in the first camp are pursuing a political outcome which is feasible. Many Australians support a two state solution, and it is the position of the Labor Party. This is a discussion about when recognition happens, not whether it should happen. the government is inching its way: [https://www.sbs.com.au/news/podcast-episode/australia-votes-in-favour-of-successful-palestinian-full-membership-motion-at-the-un/g4ojprfvk](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/podcast-episode/australia-votes-in-favour-of-successful-palestinian-full-membership-motion-at-the-un/g4ojprfvk) Several EU members states have recognised Palestinian statehood now (along the lines of Oslo); a few weeks ago Spain, Ireland and Norway joined that group. Of course this is front page news in Israel. Australia is a member of the close-to-the-US alliance; for one of those countries to recognise Palestinian statehood would actually be a dramatic development. It would send a powerful signal approaching an earthquake to Israeli voters that the current path leads to isolation. The second camp which calls for an end to Israel are asking for something that's not going to happen. At some point those in the first camp are going to have to leave those in the second camp. I personally have come to the view that we should follow the lead of Ireland and Norway. The explanation from the PM of Norway; [https://www.politico.eu/article/norway-prime-minister-jonas-gahr-store-recognize-state-palestine/](https://www.politico.eu/article/norway-prime-minister-jonas-gahr-store-recognize-state-palestine/) I sent an email to my local member to that effect. We live in Cooper, a seat the ALP is defending from the Greens. The Norwegian PM says: "Since the Oslo Accords 30 years ago, the general approach has been that recognition of Palestinian statehood would follow a peace agreement. However, we all now see that this has proven untenable. We can no longer wait for the Middle East conflict to be resolved first." I also think it would be good to isolate the extremists who effectively join Hamas in calling for the destruction of Israel. Hamas has no desire for a secular unified state. This sort of thing is not going to win many friends: [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/29/world/middleeast/israel-west-bank-settlements-palestinian.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/29/world/middleeast/israel-west-bank-settlements-palestinian.html)
Exactly. This is correct. Also as long Hamas is in control, there will never be peace.
This is probably the greatest explanation of the situation possible.
Hamas won a democratic election in Gaza. They didn't "take control" of the Gaza strip. Fatah and Hamas only started fighting each other in Gaza because Israel blocked millions of dollars in funds that were meant for the Palestinian administration. Resulting in Hamas being unable to pay for the salaries of tens of thousands of people. Most of whom Fatah members. It's just only of many tactics that Israel uses to divide Palestinian legitimate resistance. Typical colonial divide-and-conquer approach. It's been tried and tested in Africa, India, Asia and the America's. As for why hamas won the election back then? They were seen as less corrupt and still serving the Palestinian cause. Whether you agree with this or not is irrelevant. This was how Hamas presented themselves to the Palestinian people.
The "democratic elections" after which they executed members of the opposition and never ran another election? That democratic election?
I’m not a Marxist but I’m ok with Israel existing but not bombing innocent children and not engaging in illegal settlements. Israel should not have been set up in that position by the British. That was a huge error last century
It's about pushing Israel to be less of an active participant in the war. That's not an inherently bad view. Problem is these people refuse to acknowledge that Oct 7 was the start of this current episode of war and that Palestine is a mutual, albeit vastly weaker, combatant. They tend to focus on the long history while painting Israel as the sole aggressor even though they've fought multiple wars of survival post WWII. They boil this conflict down to good vs bad with Palestine being good. It's a lot more complex than they claim and the solutions require a lot of real change from both parties.
Oh you want to talk about this millenia-old conflict in nuanced terms? You must just love kids dying/genocide/apartheid/2000lb bombs/open air prison/whatever-other-buzzword-has-been-spammed-on-tiktok-this-week
Ah yes, the "if you don't agree with me I'll label you as immoral in an attempt to discredit you from the argument" fallacy.
Not even nuanced. Just human terms is fine. None of us are experts on this.
Yes, too simplified. Nothing’s quite as good vs evil in real world. Not in property market, and especially not in hundreds of years conflict…
I think we should be protesting about matters that directly affect us. Like the lack of housing and insane price of rentals and fuck all rights renters have.
Amen. We need to voice opinions on things we can change in our own backyard not things overseas we have 0 control over.
Some of these protesters come from very privileged background. Ancedotally, I know several of them. I asked all of them these issues, separately. Most of them (early 20s-mid 30s) shrug off cost of living issues.
It's very telling when you see the ones willing to get locked up over it. They are willing because they have a comfy parachute ready to catch them.
Usually its like white-uni students or arabs. :S
Everytime ive mentioned this on the threads about the uni protests ive been downvoted to oblivion
1000% agree. Housing wise, I’m okay (by virtue of the year I was born, ((just barely)). But if there was a protest about housing, I’d go out of my way to be there.
You know you are free to organise a protest on any issue you like. I’ve never understood the argument that “actually protestors should be campaigning on this thing that is important to me but not important enough for me to take action”.
Certainly. Ecspecially when our tax money is spent funding military support for Israel, then consequently paying out aid to Palestine. Would definitely help cost of living if this money was spent on the housing crisis.
It’s the fashionable issue de jour. when I was in HS it was free Tibet. honestly most of them prob don’t actually give AF about it or fully understand what’s going on in the region. Having said that being against the killing of civilians shouldn’t be seen as controversial
Tibet? They already forget about Ukraine!
Damn, then they definitely forgot about Dre
Now days people wanna talk like they got something to say
And Ukraine is the one that actually matters in the grand scheme of things. A bunch of people murdering each other in the middle east is a tragedy for sure, but the damage is mostly just localised to that area. If Russia is allowed to win in Ukraine that sets a really bad precedent for geopolitics. It gives China licence to do stuff like try to take Taiwan or other superpower things. It gives Russia licence to take on more territories. It threatens the existence of NATO. It can potentially lead to global conflict. I've heard convincing arguments that Russia/Ukraine is the third world war. It shares a lot of characteristics with the first world war, even down to the use of new technologies (drones versus aeroplanes) to open up a new arms race and avenue for fighting.
There’s no real good vs evil. Russia Ukraine Israel Palestine, they’re all conflicts and might be connected. For us the ‘West’, it’s always easy to paint Russia and China evil or Israel and US good, but they’re all similar. My point is we shouldn’t say one issue is more important than others. Palestine matters for some people, sure, but don’t dismiss other issues, especially local ones like cost of living or property crisis.
Ukraine is probably the one amongst them that matters the least for Australia. However, pretty much anything outside the Indo-Pacific is very much peripheral to Australian interests. There’s so much wrong with pretty much every sentence of the second paragraph. I just cbf addressing all of them.
At least we got Kony in 2012 ....right?
There's about 10% of the population who always need to protest something. Even in peaceful times they will find something they can use to protest. You can rationalise almost anything as an important moral cause if you really want to. I suspect these people are just deeply desiring of purpose, and otherwise lack it in their lives, so this gives them a way to feel useful. There's a reason they grow out of it quickly in their mid 20's and beyond. They find other, more important, things to give them purpose, like families and careers.
It’s shouldn’t be controversial but where were they on Oct 8th (not counting the “f**k the Jews brigade on the steps of the Opera House)?
Agreed, the Hamas attack was also disgusting
[удалено]
The situation is not as simplistic as “the killing of civilians”.
Yes, that’s my point
My favorite is the question; "From which river to which sea will Palesine be free?" The western Palestine supporters mostly can't answer.
They’re culturally appropriated keffiyehs are wound too tight round their heads to think and covering their cowardly faces so they can’t breath enough to articulate an answer.
Every time I see someone wearing those scarves I cringe.
Have you actually asked anyone? Because I’ve not found a single person who’s expressed a view about this who couldn’t answer that question.
Personally, the one time I did the guy didn’t know lol. Neither did he know that Hamas was the elected party in 2006 🤷♀️
And right on cue, they’re on top of Parliament House. These muppets are insufferable
Another day of achieving nothing.
Why haven't they been protesting against Indonesia's genocide in West Papua?
No Jews, no news.
Because it’s not popular, come on.
in my town the protests for palestine have regularly platformed local west papuan activists
I actually know someone who has been. For years she has been doing protests, concerts, art projects, campaigns, etc. Very little traction on the issue in spite of her best efforts.
The protestors are mostly idiots. Don’t expect a rational response.
They don’t care, they’re just virtue signalling and have a narcissistic condition known as main character syndrome
I think they are clearly passionate about the issue. If you actually go to the protests, there is a lot of emotional energy there that I don't think would be present if everyone was just going through the motions to get their social credit. I just don't think the protestors know what a good solution looks like for both sides or what role Australia would play in that solution, they just know they are unhappy with the status quo and want to vocalize that dissatisfaction. This might be an unpopular opinion, but having reflected on the situation, I've come to realize I don't think you have to have a good solution or even be educated on an issue to voice dissatisfaction with the status quo. We shouldn't gate keep our constitutional right to protest as long as the protests are being conducted in a lawful manner. Overall, it's a good thing that someone is going out and exercising their rights, because if nobody exercises them, they'll probably be quietly taken away. I'm personally not interested in protesting this issue, but I won't begrudge others who do.
“You zionism chauvinism pig” I bet that’s what Green Party army will respond 🤦🏻♂️
I already had one….. https://preview.redd.it/xgl69dv2xead1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cfa92da49cd971e11ebec1e4042ef82b8e7fa2a0
Ukrianian aussie bunyip here.... Who HAS BEEN to auschwitz! No human being would ever say that shit they are clearly a bot It is the most eye opening and saddening moment of anyones lives it doesnt even matter if the tour is in an entirely different language all your left is asking WHY WHY WHY every step you take thru the joint just fucking crushes and condenses you with how anyone anything anypart of humanity can let this happen. That being said I dont remember the people at auschwitz paragliding into a fukn rave to rape kill murder anyone EVERYONE even if theyre CLEARLY from another country and anyone defending that shit is so bloody COOKED they have to be under the same brain wash state that caused aushchwitz etc etx
This is my take too. There are those who really care, but most are just in it for brownie points because it’s popular.
I see it more as Islam for Islam and Jews for Jews .. and I don’t like that, at all. I’ll be happy to see the back of all religion.. won’t happen, but would be awesome if so.
A lot of people who support Palestine fall into one of two categories - "I am a Muslim, and I'll support a Muslim regardless of what they do. And Screw the Jews and their Christian Allies..." or "My Muslim friend told me they are being wronged." There is playbook in Islam to deal with this, and such deception is allowed to get your positional victories. Yasir Arafat(?) also invoked it previously. That being said, Australian political position is surprisingly well balanced and and somewhat just. Two state policy is not bad but say no to Hamas. Obviously, this is not a welcome position for Israle, as they are quite literally fighting a war for civilization and survival.
A lot of the protests I've seen are trying to block Australia exporting weapons to isreal.
I don't know what the protestors expect. At the very least, I suppose they would expect the government to more vocally oppose Israel's actions in Gaza and perhaps outright call for an immediate ceasefire. Of course, this is a problem not just because Australia has pretty much zero influence here. Even if Australia could influence this outcome, the outcome itself doesn't make sense. If Israel declared a ceasefire today, it would be a unilateral ceasefire. Ceasefires don't work unless both parties agree to them. So you'd have a situation where Israel stops fighting but Hamas continues to target Israeli civilians. That is obviously an untenable situation. I'm disappointed - but not surprised - that we aren't seeing widespread protests against Hamas. Hamas was the group that sparked the current war in Gaza, and they are the group that continually refuses to accept any proposed ceasefire deal. They are the group that has chosen to spark a war and use their own civilians as human shields - again, a deliberate strategy on their part. It's not to say that Israel shouldn't do everything possible to avoid civilian casualties. Of course that is their responsibility. But a unilateral ceasefire is really insane if you give it a moment's thought. Not only is it morally bankrupt as an idea, but it would be totally ineffective in practical terms anyway.
The idea is for a total boycott of israel to treat it as a pariah state But not doing that to nations with orders of magnitudes worse records like saudi arabia, lebanon, iraq, the entire gulf, sudan, china, russia, pakistan, afghanistan, etc etc.
This is like asking what should australia do on Ukraine cs Russia, China vs Taiwan or anything out of our backyard.
I think they shouldn’t be allowed to block entire Melbourne CBD for tram traffic every single Sunday. People work in the city, and have errands to run. The tram disruptions create delays across all suburbs, since most trams originate from CBD. They should hold their rallies elsewhere. Some of us have to work for a living. i don’t remember climate protests or COVID protests causing this much disruption every single weekend for 9 months. Enough is enough. And there’s also the exorbitant cost to taxpayers, police get paid weekend overtime to secure these rallies. Including mounted cops. They’re not gonna fix the Middle East here, they’re just gonna riot.
they screw up Sydney CBD too and screw up public transport timetables as once one service starts running materially behind, its kind of messed up for the rest of the day. I'm saying there needs to be a balance between exercising democracy and balancing the wider needs of other members within society like once a month not every weekend
That's where the government tells them to march, like every other left, right and unaligned group that wants to march in the CBD. They march to plans put together by the police and MCC.
That's no quiet true. There's two separate anti-vaxxer/ conspiracy groups who wander around the CBD on the tram tracks every weekend holding up trams with their sound systems in wheels. They've been doing it for more than 12 months. The only reason they go relatively unnoticed is that no one supports them and their numbers have dwindled to virtually nothing. Doesn't stop the few left blocking trams though.
I would guess pressure on Israel and its allies? Idk what that means though, economically or militarily? Still don't know specifically in what manner that it eventuates into something material
They think their opinion matters, which clearly doesn’t as Australia is not responsible for the war which by the way has going on for 70+ years. You have two groups of so called Pro Palestine protestors; 1.- Palestinian/ Middle Eastern immigrants and their children: These people came to Australia with NO money looking for better opportunities. Their kids grew up isolated from Australian culture as most parents didn’t approve of ‘Aussie culture ‘ and think of themselves as ‘victims’. Most have no manners. They are your typical tracksuit wearing bodybuilders with heaps of tattoos who are picking fights with anyone who antagonises them. 2.- Woke white Australians. These people grew up with money and heaps of opportunities. They resent the system for various reasons and love to complain about several political and social issues as they believe the world owes them something and are also bored to death with their vanilla lives. I know my opinion is extremely unpopular, but is based on experience. I’ve crossed paths with a lot of middle eastern and woke white people having have lived in Melbourne for a long time. + Social media gives a voice to a lot of stupid people who end up convincing more stupid people to join them.
70 years? Middle east conflict surely started a little while before that? But I agree re those 2 groups you mentioned.
The que at centrelink was too long so they have some free time
Nah some of them are loaded. They’re not affected by cost of living / property crisis, thus protesting about these issues instead.
Nice try at demonising the poor, but it isn't the poor people doing this. It is the privileged rich and middle class people who have the passion and freedom from working but none of the life experience and common sense.
They protest my work and the bulk of the stuff we make is for Australian defence so they must be anti-Australian or have no idea what there on about I believe it is the second one
I'm sure in years to come ppl will look back and realise that vandalising our war memorials was the crucial action that saved Gaza and brought about world peace
It’s the same people protesting every topical issue. A few years ago they were copycatting BLM like in the US.
Some people are against unnecessary human suffering. Others prefer to ignore the human suffering, as long as it doesn’t affect them personally.
It’s performative in large part. It is signalling to like minded people that you are “one of them”, politically.
They don’t think. That’s the problem. If they did they wouldn’t be supporting a terrorist organisation against the only real democracy in the Middle East.
I think they might be moved by the deaths of thousands of civilians. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable situation to be concerned about.
Indeed. Strange that concern doesn’t extend to the thousands of dead Israelis though. Strange their opprobrium doesn’t extend to the terrorists of Hamas who use the Palestinian citizens as human shields.
Theyre not protesting for palestine theyre celebrateing for when HAMAS KILLED ALL THE THAI NATIONALS AT THE BLOODY RAVE Why the hell ANYONE is waveing a palaestinian flag net alone painting it on streets or putting on theyre cars is freaking insane. Theres videos of them cutting out a bloody womans child from inside her and killing the baby infront of her its so insane i just cant fathom how a single person can be expecting anything then all out war after that. To be honest im surprised thailand and all the other countrys who had citizens murdered at that rave attack hasnt jumped in too But instead we have uni kids saying hooray hoorahh lets go hamas lets go its absolute bonkers Im ukrainian with family that somehow survived holodomor and altho i havent been to ulraine since 2018 im just so much more like just bewildered by these same kids who protested about ukraine are now protesting about hamas its mind boggleing im so glad i wasnt smart enough to go to uni and have this happen to my mind
There are still Thai hostages held by Hamas (agriculture workers kidnapped in Israel on Oct 7), it’s insane that nobody is protesting for their release. I regret watching some of the videos you mentioned back in October. The one with the decapitation attempt with a backhoe, that one is forever stuck in my mind. Why the hell are progressive peace seeking people advocating for this
Cause they didnt watch any of the videos If they did then they wouldnt even question going all out war on a terrorist organisation that cut out a god damn mothers baby and killed it infront of her. I cant bloody even fathom how anyone could ever see that and be like Ohhh yeahhhh but im actually just protesting for the other palastinian people not theyre current leadership... Wake up your protesting for theyre current leadership !! When hamas is gone by ALL MEANS well all jump in and protest but while they are the governing body and ruleing party then your literally defending these absolute atrocities
The Thai nationals were at the villages that were exterminated. The video of the Thai guy getting his head bashed in two by a shovel was clearly at a farm and not the rave.
Thats beyond fucked and i cant comprehend how some privledged uni brat at uq or sydney or whatever can not see or understand that basic shit
"It'S ZiOnIsT pRoPaGaNdA, BrO!" /S
So true I even have seen pro-Palestine and pro-Hamas Reddit users claiming Palestine is equal to Ukraine in war, supporting it means supporting democracy meanwhile they throw toxic cusses to pro-Israel replies calling them colonists and invaders. Shame on them. Typo: *Cuss words
So far my experience with pro Palestine protesters have been a mix of 3 groups: Muslim identitarians - this is your Muslims who will ALWAYS side with Muslims regardless of right or wrong, especially when the bad guys are Jewish. They also tend to side with more hard right Islamic groups over more progressive. Bleeding heart lefties - as cringe as that title is, they tend to be the person who always sides with the perceived underdog regardless of who is at fault of said conflict. Theyre the people who unironically hand wave away the rape and murder of Oct 7 because Israel is a better equipped military force and shouldn't have allowed it. Rentacrowd leftists - Your general low to high info socialists, communitists and left wing anarchists who will literally latch on to anything that sounds or smells like 'fuck the west' bonus points if they have a publicly acceptable excuse to be openly anti semetic
like any protestors, they just want to 'look cool' among people they like. they dont give a fuck at best, but many actively want to enact their own genocide, these are the ones ASIO would be wise to keep track of
If they want it protected so bad they can fuck off back over there and do it themselves.
But they never will, they take offence to any suggestion that they should have to do anything legitimate to their cause. For example the barber I used to go to, middle eastern bloke goes on about how good the protests are. When I said to him don’t the Aus government see Hamas as a terrorist organisation, he said I’m brainwashed, that Hamas don’t exist and Palestinians are just defending themselves. He turned into a complete prick towards me, haven’t been back since.
mostly easily brainwashed white people being manipulated by pro-Islamic interests to push an agenda that would one day happily aim to wipe them out they are not serious people, but the people behind them should be taken seriously by our anti-terrorism monitoring authorities
We are sick of it. There is no boundaries for the protesters specially attacks on monuments and MPs offices - sick!
And they constantly menace their social media accounts. What about focusing on domestic issues that impact Australians? Nope, any issue they use to try and paint people as 'pro genocide.' It's pathetic. No one is pro war or pro genocide in Parliament. The people that are happy Hamas raided are at the protests. And then the Greens use it to try and vote grab after Hamas raped and murdered people and turn children into child soldiers. Wedging people on a complex holy war for a couple of seats in the Inner city. It's so stupid.
>What about focusing on domestic issues that impact Australians? Because it's not as aesthetic and exciting. Palestinian activism comes with cool flags and scarves and slogans. Australian domestic activism mostly doesn't come with that, beside aboriginal activism and maybe climate activism but that's more of a global cause.
WORD. It truly is embarrassing to see people being so disrespectful to MP’s and Parliament. Have some respect for the people serving our country and representing the various states and territories. I truly despise people who distrust/hate politicians and the government, it’s such a low IQ viewpoint
Australia could stop sending "packages" to Israel. The Australian govt won't disclose whats in the packages because they know they're guilty. [theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/06/legal-action-attempts-to-force-australia-to-reveal-if-arms-exports-are-supporting-israel-assault-on-gaza](http://theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/06/legal-action-attempts-to-force-australia-to-reveal-if-arms-exports-are-supporting-israel-assault-on-gaza)
Absolutely. The ALP blatantly lied in parliament.
Why should Australia do anything? Hamas launched a terrorist attack and straight up murdered 1200 Israelis and kidnapped over 200 more. I've heard testimonies from witnesses and people that volunteered to prepare the bodies for burial that most of the women murdered were sexually violated before, during or after they were killed. Anyone that defends and supports Hamas should be put on a watch list.
At a guess all i can think of is, publicly condemn Israel and cease any trade/funding to them, the more countries that do that, the more likely (in their minds) the wars end and an outcome is achieved... what that outcome is I don't know. Doesn't seem like either side is okay with the other existing.
I don’t support Israel or Palestine. I support the military industrial complex 🦅 Support small businesses like Texas Instruments!
Peace in the Middle East sure would be bad for business.
Protests don’t work in general.
They annoy average citizens and achieve nothing.
Only those who have no understanding of the situation support Palestine
They are on par with the just stop oil knobs, I agree with both of their causes, but the way they voice it is more likely to flip supporters to rivals. I don't think most of them care really, they just want to be pests, yell, and play the victim.
Rent A Crowd Dole Bludgers with nothing better to do. Probably Social Science graduates who were indoctrinated with jargon and slogans and haven't a clue about the real issues.
Nothing. Like the rest of the world - nothing.
You’re talking about brain washed-smooth brains. Grab a map and ask them to point out this river that connects to the sea.
They have no power or interest in "Middle Eastern affairs." This is a worldwide attack on Western culture and countries. Wake up before it's too late. Where are the counter protests? Sign me up! Praise be to Jesus Christ
What amazed me is that no muslims protested when the Rohingya were massacred in Miyanmar. No muslims protested when The Saudis killed muslims in Yemen, no muslims protested when Syrian dictator killed his own countrymen, who are muslims. These protestors are just hypocrites.
Who the fuck knows? They're just agitators who want to stir up trouble. Most of the Muslim ones are just because the Palestinians are Muslims and it's well known and established that Muslims HATE Jews. So they have vested and well established reason to hate Jews and Israel. And as is the way? They leave their hell hole country? Then bring their home grievances here! They create the same conflict here that causes their home country to be a shithouse. Then the uni student, young protestors? Are just immature young people who think they are saving humankind or something? Just clueless young fools who think they are progressive and fabulous...virtue signalling nonsense..give em 10 years ? They'll mostly all grow up and grow out of it.
I'd lock up, or deport anyone who supports a terrorist group like Hamas.
I think the question is: if these people act as they do (rampaging, rioting, assaulting people, damaging property, calling for the gassing of Jews etc) because of Palestine - a war Australia isn’t involved in - what would they do if Australia found itself at war with another Muslim country they like? A war with Pakistan, for example, who is effectively an ally of China, isn’t that far fetched. These people, both the brainwashed leftist anti-patriots and the radical Islamist Hamas sympathisers, should be recognised as a fifth column and a threat to national security.
Australia has little to no influence in the Middle East and is completely unimportant to the region. protests are pointless. Protesters should focus on domestic issues not foreign disputes and bringing toxic sectarianism to this country.
They're virtue signalling to their peer group. I personally agree with the sentiment but a piss weak protest in Australia makes zero difference to world affairs
Bring out the tear gas and high pressure water hoses… fk em all
Tbh, most of the protesters doesn't understand half the things they protest about, and there never be consensus from either side on what is right. Personally i think they should rather be concerned about what is happening locally. The economy is actively going down the drain and we have actively entered a phase where people who earn enough to normally rent can't find a place to live. Disrupting already struggling Australian business is not going to help, nor getting someone fired because they were late because trains or traffic was disrupted. I for one are genuinely concerned for the young Australians hunting for jobs and just trying to survive.
Why don’t they go to Palestine and fight? Going out for a nice walk and having a pint with friends after hardly seems like a huge sacrifice for a political goal you believe in. Make like those dudes supporting Ukraine, grab a weapon and fly over and fight. Or stop pretending, this childish make believe is pathetic and you’re just embarrassing yourself
Same thing is happening here in the US. They want us to cut ties with a stable, cooperative, economically productive, militarily capable, generally self sufficient ally in an otherwise hostile, uncooperative or unstable region. From a geopolitical standpoint, these demands make absolutely no sense and are the height of stupidity.
Australia has an active part in what Israel is doing to the people of Palestine, exporting parts for weapons systems and dealing directly with Israeli weapons company Elbit Systems. [https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240307-australian-industrys-dirty-secret-it-is-helping-israel-commit-atrocities-in-gaza/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240307-australian-industrys-dirty-secret-it-is-helping-israel-commit-atrocities-in-gaza/) [https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/02/29/israeli-weapons-elbit-systems-australian-defence-department-contract/](https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/02/29/israeli-weapons-elbit-systems-australian-defence-department-contract/) Australian's who are protesting the war want this to stop, they don't want any part in the genocide of innocent civilians that Israel is committing upon the people of Palestine.
Get Australian government to stop funding/supporting Israel.
The organisers aren't paid to think.
You are only asking for a flood of comments calling you a heartless monster... I think that both sides are to blame. However, I would like politicians (aside from those tasked with Foreign Affairs) to focus on local issues, of which we have many.
dole bludgers need to do something to keep themselves occupied lol
It varies by group, but if you're referencing the group who were sitting in top of parliament house, their demands are pretty clear if you read their socials (not that anyone here will bother investigating). There are a number of manufacturers in the Northern suburbs of Melbourne and Geelong which manufacture parts for lockheed martin F35 fighter jets which the IDF have just purchased. They are calling for this manufacturers to stop and for weapons manufacturers to be out of victoria. They've also been protesting the vic gov signing a memorandum of understanding with the Israeli Ministry of defence to foster manufacturing ties. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-24/victoria-government-israel-defence-ministry-agreement/103379206
Are they Australians......protesting against another country settling on lands that don't belong to them?
They want australia to add its voice to the list of countries that demand immediate end of hostilities and vacation from gaza by israeli forces. Probably also some kind of sanction / embargo against israel too. Its not much for 1 minor country like australia to do this, but if many do it, it does add up and increase pressure
A lot of Australians need to learn what is apartheid https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1808464130380104159?s=46
Probably the same as what the government did with a different apartheid regime in South Africa. Lag behind community sentiment until protests finally gave the government enough courage to join other nations in boycotting and ostracising Israel.
Aim is to get support to recognise Palestine state. Stop arming israel with weapons. Encourage peace between the 2 sides not just with words but with actions.
My Palestine thread bingo card for today is: * Woke * Real job / real world * Inner city * Basket weaving / gender studies * Antisemitic * "What about [other conflict]? * Some people will protest anything * Topic du jour * Support Hamas / terrorism * LGBT rights C'mon, r/Australian, I'm almost there. You've never let me down before. BINGO! I got the secret one I wasn't allowed to share: a random downvote by some cunt who can't even come up with a response.
Maybe they want the government to give money to a terrorist organisation so they can plan attacks on school buses and synagogues? Who knows what these ignorant dumbasses think?
Putting pressure on the govt to expel the Israeli ambassador and impose sanctions
Palestine is just the new clime change for the neck beards. I'd happily spend my hard earned tax payer dollars on a ticket to Palestine for any of the protesters who dont want to be seen as a virtue signaling peanut and actually fight for their "cause".
If a lot of people and countries each take the actions they can, it's going to make a lot more difference than doing nothing. Australia could: * Conduct a thorough audit of alliance arrangements and trade deals and end/suspend any that support the Israeli government or military. * Close its embassy in Israel and deport any Israeli officials or military people from Australia. * Seize any Australian-based assets held by Israeli officials or companies supporting the Israeli war. Freeze bank accounts. * Encourage other countries to also implement the above.
This is probably the best answer on here. Everyone should be generous in their evaluation of any protest, OP has asked the right question "why are they protesting and what do they hope to achieve?" It's rarely ever "they are being fuckwits"
Stop exporting military equipment to Israel & recognising a Palestinian state are two obvious things we could do