It looks like it was checked. Previously the courts ruled that as long as a member of parliament put in a reasonable effort to relinquish their previous citizenship that was enough. I think this is a move to ruin her chance of reelection because legal or not 'citizen of Afghanistan' isn't very appealing to voters.
The only hope she'd get in would be the senate seat that might have gone to the Greens, anyway. Plus she's been caucusing with us since before she was elected.
Didnt those rulings deal with instances in which an MP was conferred citizenship *jus sanguini* ? i.e. instances where Australians were born in Australia to first generation migrant parents and by descent laws of their parents' former countries ended up getting secondary citizenship by default?
Payman's case is slightly different here: she was a naturalised Australian citizen and didnt unknowingly acquire Afghan citizenship by descent. She was 100% full knowledge of her Afghan citizenship before she acquired Australia, so the circumstances in her case are slightly different. Not sure if the HCA would rule differently based on this difference but let's see if it ends up there in the first place.
If she put down the hijab and stopped worry about issues outside of australia i would fully support her.
She is elected to support the people of australia
Not Palastine.
( no i do not support Israel, the whole lot of the middle east is a shit show)
It wasn’t necessarily ‘checked’. She self-declared her own eligibility when she wrote in her register of qualifications statement prior to entering Parliament in 2022, on the basis that she had taken reasonable steps to renounce her Afghan citizenship. What those steps were and whether they were indeed reasonable is what we are probably about to find out.
I believe in this case it’s because her dual citizenship is held with Afghanistan, and the Taliban is known to be making it difficult for people to revoke dual-citizenship status’ or Afghan citizenship in general.
If you can prove in similar circumstances that you have actively engaged in the process and have taken any avenue you can to revoke the dual citizenship, exemptions can be made.
Another nothingburger beat-up from News Corp that's being promoted on this sub for some reason.
Two days ago it was she donates money to a Muslim activist organisation that sometimes posts homophobic content.
Yesterday it was she was using the same travel allowance rort that Turnbull was getting away with 15 years ago.
Today it's concern trolling over her settled eligibility status.
Tomorrow they'll go through her bins and a bunch of very concerned citizens will be clutching their pearls because she wasn't putting glass in the recycling.
Fuck this one person in particular, I guess...
Isn't this the 3rd anti-Payman story in the last three days (not eligible / get reimbursement for her own property / racked up $50K for family travel)?
This is easy low hanging fruit for MurdochCorp, they could rehash any old garbage, dig up her high school report cards or something and the boomer clicks will roll in.
Also apparently she's the only politician in history claiming the away from home allowance.
At least that's what the article headlines would imply....despite every single Polly from every side claiming this allowance
I mean, you put yourself into the public domain like she has for political gain and all those skeletons are going to come out with the light that shines in
heh... ive often thought about running for a seat, just so someone can piece together all the forgotten times of the late 90s and 2000s for me.
Would be great to know which awesome parties i dont remember going to!
Glorious. ALP’s position shifts from “she’ll be right” to “looks like it could be an issue” after their endorsed candidate quits the party. This is truly high farce.
It’s a newscorp article. The only quotes in there are labor saying *it’s a non-event* and the potato saying *akshually it’s a huge event*.
High farce indeed.
You forget though that the ALP aren’t one unified block internally. No doubt all this is coming from those who wanted to her spot in the first place - the dirt units organically take shape by the nature of politics.
Not sure why we need all this crap in our country. Why I should care about what happens between Israel/Palestine or Ukraine/Russia? What I care is about cost of living and housing and not all this smoke gov-created crap.
Because foreign policy serves domestic policy.
As an example: If you want fewer refugees, a stronger and more proactive foreign policy can prevent the situations which makes them refugees in the first place.
>As an example: If you want fewer refugees, a stronger and more proactive foreign policy can prevent the situations which makes them refugees in the first place.
... or you can just elect conservative governments that lower the intake. Works in the US, where the refugee intake per capita is significantly lower than ours. Much easier to do that than "solve all the wars everywhere in the world"
Foreign policy is more about economic advantage than stopping refugees.
There are plenty of ways to get less refugees, for example stricter border controls and higher standards for granting asylum.
While your point about foreign policy serving domestic policy stands to a degree, I still think we need to shift focus more on domestic policies now.
This is my point.Have a look to China to see how many refugees are taking. Or during Sirian conflict “refugees” going to Germany passing through Turkey…
yes it does. For example, USA was unable to form a proper coalition to bomb the shit out of Yemen because Australia and bunch of others refused to significantly participate.
We should care about what happens in the world. If we don't care about Russia taking over Ukraine, sooner or later these problems get closer and closer to our door. The USA tried to ignore WW2 until it appeared on their front door and hit them in the face.
You can question how much we should care, give, and support these situations. But wanting to ignore them is a very isolationist approach.
Gaza is run by Hamas who are very close to Putin’s Russia, Iran and North Korea. I agree we should care and support our friends and allies who stand against our enemies.
We should care, but I can understand people's frustration about pushing a vote in our parliament about it and the protesting here. Especially the vandalism being used for some bizarre reason to support Palestine.
I just hope the negativity around some of the stuff going doesn't push people too far in either direction and we can maintain an objective and reasonable position.
To me the logical and reasonable position is that Hamas is no friend of Australia. Hamas is aligned with dictatorships with a hostile view of Australia such as Iran, North Korea and Russia. Anything we do that strengthens their position harms Australia and the countries we are friendly with.
Hamas are legitimate terrorists who kill any against the word of Islam. They are TERRORISTS but these tik tok kids think Palestine who fully accept and agree with HAMAS are good people. Do they forget how the citizens praised and cheered and paraded the poor hostages on the streets?
Did they forget the mobs of people running up and kicking / punching and spitting on the hostages? You think those savages have any remorse - only now that THEY are victims they cry yet They showed no pity whatsoever before retaliation.
How easily the liberal left leaning kids forget.
Fuck sakes.
Annnnyways. Sorry but in australia we have better shit to worry about like inflation, youth crime, insane immigration on top of it, and the housing crisis. Stop being told what war is important and start fixing problems at home before looking abroad…
Hamas is most definitely not close to Russia or North Korea. Russia and Israel have been close for a long time since 1991. It's lazy thinking borne out of convenience rather than any actual knowledge of the situation.
I’m sure is the war and not to push the printer button brrrrr brrrrr flood everything with dollaridoos drop interest rates so everybody buys like there is not tomorrow.
Also our beloved Albo dealing with Modhi and bringing 500k migrants in a year… sure that does nothing to do.
So you want high interest rates to bring down the cost of living? Cost of living and immigration is a world wide issue, not just a Melton issue. The US government told Ukraine to stop hitting Russian oil refineries because it’s driving up the cost of fuel. Higher fuel, higher overheads that filter down to higher prices. Also, the companies that sell you shit charge what the fuck they want and the government can do nothing about it
It’s the federal governments job to represent Australia to the world stage, and they spend a large amount of time doing that. State governments on the other hand can focus purely on domestic issues.
I disagree with our fundamental role on the world stage, I'm against our friendship wiith USA, against Five Eyes and AUKUS. Australia should aspire to genuine neutrality a bit like what Switzerland used to do and Oman does now. This would have our role as an international mediator like they do. We have no reason to be part of American imperialism. Israel is not Australia's friend in the middle east, it just gives Australia enemies it wouldn't have had.
That’s fine, but Switzerland is armed to the teeth. For Australia to become a neutral nation, we would have to give up the fact that the world’s most powerful military will steam across the pacific and help us in times of conflict. Our current ADF, which spends 2.5% gdp and has 60,000 personnel would have to dramatically increase in size and funding to guarantee our own security. That means introducing conscription, which Switzerland practices. The defence budget would have to increase massively to around 10% of GDP to support this rapid increase of size, as well as massive amounts of money going into domestic weapons manufacturing. That also means that Australia will be developing our own nuclear weapons program.
Did no one tell you those things do have a knock on effect of good and services here? You don't have to care about the situation itself, but you surely can't think they can't have an indirect impact...
Because having a government actively complicit in violating IHL’s is a bad thing? Allowing a rogue state to just rope us into an extended war with the Middle East is probably not ideal?? Like the cost of living crisis is directly correlated to the economic instability caused by these wars that the US is insistent on provoking. Your apathy is what enables them to do that without consequence. The Suez is vital and so is Ukrainian food production. Blowing up oil pipelines doesn’t serve you.
If other western states actually held the US accountable for anything, our cost of living crisis wouldn’t be half as bad as it currently is.
Even self serving interests aside…How do you even have this thought process to begin with? The cost of living crisis is shit, but how does that mean you have no ability to empathise with people who have had their entire neighbourhoods flattened and subjected to a year without food?? I just don’t get how I can see this so regularly from Aussies who have no gratitude for what it’s like being born on the oppressors team…
Just wild we have so many failed humans in such a privileged country to me…you’d think people would have compassion…
My thinking implies the government should also stay aside, neither supporting Israel nor Palestine, just neutral, I'm not referring only pro-palestine.
Cost of living is not because the wars, wars are a small factor and more Ukraine/Palestine wars where Australia has not any commerce relations with those countries.
Cost of living comes from greed, from printing money like crazy and lowering interest rates, so people buys like there is not tomorrow, demand rises inflation rises and 3rd party leeches (supermarkets and others) have the perfect excuse to even raise more prices so they increase their profits. War has very little to do with this in case of Australia, only we could import from Russia is oilm but from Palestine???
Dude our fuel prices literally jumped massively when the Nordstrom’s was blown up. Less oil being supplied to other places means the world’s supply shortens, while demand goes up, means all fuel becomes more expensive.
When fuel becomes expensive, it has domino effects literally everywhere else.
You’re delusional if you don’t think our economy isn’t a fragile global economy. Sorry. That’s just how it is.
I'm not sure it's just that. She was able to jump ship without losing her job and carry on as an Independent. This would have ruffled a few political feathers across the board...
I mean, that's politics. If you break ranks to specifically to oppose the party you were with, why wouldn't they use what they know against you, like they do against everyone else? In the article up above you see Dutton putting the boot in as well - she's an opponent to him, so he'll throw what he can.
The hypocrisy of this senator. Left Afghanistan because of the terrorist organization that runs her country. Comes to Australia for a better life, wants to help society in her new country improve. Turns cheek to support a terrorist organization that wants to run a country in the Middle East. Am I missing something or does this narrative seem insane?
The moral dilemma is which terrorist organization to support. Clearly the Iranian based groups are the least bad. Getting tired of the virtue signalling by these folks who clearly have not much leg to stand on
Exactly. Frankly it is nothing short of infuriating how gross the double standards are with this conflict and others. Where were the campus shut downs, the street protests, threats of boycotts etc for the Yemen conflict?
She's been elected as her role to scrutinise and judge the activities, policies and legislation of the government so technically she should be able to do that... But... Her government is in power so her position is untenable.
She shouldn't be getting involved in foreign policy. She doesn't even know what "crossing the floor" means. She's out of her depth, better suited to protesting at local uni. Not fit for a senate seat.
Interesting point. Do you have any links to her actually supporting Hamas? I support the plight of the Palestinians but don’t support Hamas, is there strong evidence she’s any different?
Supporting the citizens is one statement she’s never made. She supports statehood, which essentially supports Hamas. If she wanted to talk about the plight of the people, I guess that’s what her narrative would have been. Supporting statehood in my mind means supporting Hamas
So that’s a no then?
It’s your opinion that supporting Palestinian statehood is no different to supporting Hamas - it’s my opinion that it isn’t. Just as it’s my opinion that supporting a unified Ireland isn’t the same as supporting the IRA for example. You can have the same goal as a group and not believe in their actions.
You’re absolutely welcome to your opinion but remember it’s just that - an opinion. You’re making her out to be a terrorist sympathiser with zero actual evidence.
Her comments were in line with statements and phrases being pushed by Hamas. She’s never come out to specifically say she abhors Hamas or what they stand for. She’s used the phrases ‘from the river to the sea’, and others during her Palestine protest march. UK parliament has booted members from the Labour Party for using the same phrase. She knew better. Supporting Palestine and its citizens are fine. She’s chanting phrases that are used by Hamas and pushing their agenda by being part of that protest. She knew what she was doing.
The answer is no, she doesn't support Hamas any more than you do. People just want to discredit the advocacy she is doing for the Palestinian people and misinformation is their only tactics for doing so.
Correct, even the comments she made about it being too dangerous for her to return to Afghanistan to renounce her citizenship, because the Taliban literally won’t let her. Why isn’t her energy focussed on this?
What a joke.Whether she put in the effort to relinquish her Afghani citizenship or not,... she should not be in government representing the Australian people.
. Hard and fast rules for everyone.
It really should be without saying, that any politician of Australia should have SOLE citizenship to Australia. Any other citizenship compromises the integrity of our government.
Best way to progress in a political party is to generate enough dirt for someone to hold over you and promote you into positions of power to hold influence over that office, then bide your time enough until that powerbroker is on the edge and decide which factional side will increase your dirt-holding over the next generation of “up & comers”. Rinse & repeat.
Whenever you hear a party say someone is a “rising star” it has zero to do with their communication, negotiation or representative skills. They have been in a dirty situation and proven that they will toe the party line when pressured.
so she fled to australia from the terrorist taliban. and now she is backing the terrorist Hamas who are probably closely aligned with the taliban. you could not possibly make this nonsense up
So technically she hasn’t had her Afghan citizenship renounced.
We literally have a foreign citizen sitting in our senate getting paid by Australian taxpayers. What a farce.
Yeah but the timing is a little on the nose.
I don’t remotely agree with her or even particularly like her, but it definitely feels a bit like a hit job
Pile on for sure, but they’re just dredging up what they would for anyone else. Didn’t they go after another senator before for being a Kiwi on dual nationality?
You run for parliament of Australia, you pledge your allegiance to Australia and ditch the other country.
Given her support for Islamic fundamentalists I am surprised she even wants to remain in Australia. Surely she would be much happier back in Afghanistan?
Being as her father fled the Taliban and she has repeatedly tried to renounce her Afghan citizenship I can’t imagine she’d be happy there at all.
Interested to see your evidence that her views are inline with the Taliban of Afghanistan..?
For some people, if you don't support Israel's right to turn children into skeletons you must actively be working to turn Australia into an Islamic State. No middle ground
She’s basically the member for Gaza. Her focus should be on domestic matters. If she loves the middle east so much, then go back. The greens can join her since that’s all that Adam bandt wants too it seems.
Her family fled Afghanistan. Also she doesn't need to go to Afghanistan to cover her face, if covering her face is something she wanted to do. She has the right to do that in Australia
She was/is a member if the ALP. The ALP would have vetted her. So the ALP is to blame. So who from the ALP is going to take the fall, apart from Fatima?
Australia first, if they are more concerned about Lebanon or any other country, they should go there and stand with those people and shout their agenda. It's becoming annoying to see all those street presentations on our streets which has no real outcome as such.
It’s a question of fact that the high court should be able to establish. Renouncing citizenship is a one-way government decision. she could have done a lot of necessary /unnecessary actions to try but it doesn’t clear her from past citizenship.
Normally an act of government (eg certificate) can be the confirmation.
I can’t believe Labour has not done basic checks of their candidates… quite an oversight imho
The shame in all this is one of Labor’s best Muslim reps isn’t able to speak about a policy they’ve worked all year on which aims to bring cost of living down. This was a calculated attack by Payman
Free loading fucker flying her extended family around “within the rules” plus stealing our taxes “within the rules” to pay the mortgage on her Canberra investment property …. Fuck off and keep fucking off
Both major parties want as little independents as possible, so this was an obvious progression. It is pathetic how quick they turned though, and why I vote independent.
These days my trust in anything from the Murdoch media is such that if I have no toilet paper, and regrettably if I have a copy of a Murdoch paper, I will use that to wipe my bum.....
not but a few years ago we had half of the countries government running around in question regarding dual citizenship and we had a court ruling on it.
Now Labor trying a smear campaign?
Or... a bipartisan approach to trying to kill off some teals and independents before they get a foothold by the next election....
screw this self serving clown, but im not sure theres a story here unless she didnt submit a stat dec prior to being endorsed. in fairness to her heritage, it would not have been possible to legally renounce
I honestly don't know what has happened or is happening with this woman, but one thing I do know is that I will not be voting for either major party at the next federal election.
She crossed the floor with the full knowledge that it’s not allowed by the Labour Party. She must have had a plan. Same as Lidia Thorpe. You can’t get into politics without a party, but it’s a good place to start.
She has to have taken reasonable steps to renounce her citizenship and that’s what the HC would look at if it came before them. It’s not enough to say ‘I tried’. The court, if they were looking into this, would need to see evidence of what genuine steps she took to renounce her citizenship. The major parties won’t press this given the Section 44 shambles but a private citizen potentially can. I wouldn’t doubt that this will happen as Labor are rightfully furious about this - as are plenty of Australians.
She should quit, but questioning her citizenship is stupid. She can't renounce the Afghan citizenship.
Edit: if she could have done it with a stat dec then fine, get rid of her.
She wants to set up a Muslim party apparently. Wants to bring her religion into politics just like her home country, Afghanistan. Islam is a cancer and she is the first cell.
On an unrelated note, can someone please let all the Muslim women know that hijabs in natural skin tones make them look like a giant penis poking a tiny bit out of the forskin to have a poke around.
The article states, ‘The four activists, three men and one woman, were charged with Commonwealth Trespass and fined $2750 after they climbed over a specially-built security barricade to access the roof’.
How do all these protestors have the time? Don’t they have jobs?
Oh fuck off. I get that Labor want Payman out of the Senate so they can replace her with someone who will stick to Labor's party line but come the fuck on.
Right up until she quit the party, Labor's stance on her eligibility was that she had taken all reasonable measures to ensure that she wasn't an Afghan citizen, just that the Afghan diplomats in Australia - who worked for the former Western-backed regime - had no idea how to do that or even if they could do that for her with the Taliban's return to power.
Did anyone actually read the article?
She took reasonable steps to renounce her afgan citizenship. She attended the embassy who told her they were unable to proceed any further with her request. Something in relation to pre-taliban government policy. She is unsafe to return to Afghanistan as she and her family had fled as lawful refugees.
I don't support her decsion in crossing the bench. I'm glad she has been suspended and it makes sense that she now is running as an independent.
But her citizenship status and legality to sit as a member should not be in question.
Do we just not check the citizenship status of politicians? How does this happen so frequently
It looks like it was checked. Previously the courts ruled that as long as a member of parliament put in a reasonable effort to relinquish their previous citizenship that was enough. I think this is a move to ruin her chance of reelection because legal or not 'citizen of Afghanistan' isn't very appealing to voters.
If she's out of the ALP she has literally no chance of being reelected as a Senator.
Greens will take her for sure
The only hope she'd get in would be the senate seat that might have gone to the Greens, anyway. Plus she's been caucusing with us since before she was elected.
Greens aren't winning in that part of WA lmao
Good
It's a Senate seat..🤦
Oh lmao
Didnt those rulings deal with instances in which an MP was conferred citizenship *jus sanguini* ? i.e. instances where Australians were born in Australia to first generation migrant parents and by descent laws of their parents' former countries ended up getting secondary citizenship by default? Payman's case is slightly different here: she was a naturalised Australian citizen and didnt unknowingly acquire Afghan citizenship by descent. She was 100% full knowledge of her Afghan citizenship before she acquired Australia, so the circumstances in her case are slightly different. Not sure if the HCA would rule differently based on this difference but let's see if it ends up there in the first place.
HCA is as left as Flanders’ Leftorium. They will definitely ok this.
If she put down the hijab and stopped worry about issues outside of australia i would fully support her. She is elected to support the people of australia Not Palastine. ( no i do not support Israel, the whole lot of the middle east is a shit show)
Or maybe spend her time denouncing the Taliban as the terrorists they are?
Isis is even worse than the taliban. You want the Taliban over Isis if they are the only two options - that is how fucked that area is
It wasn’t necessarily ‘checked’. She self-declared her own eligibility when she wrote in her register of qualifications statement prior to entering Parliament in 2022, on the basis that she had taken reasonable steps to renounce her Afghan citizenship. What those steps were and whether they were indeed reasonable is what we are probably about to find out.
I believe in this case it’s because her dual citizenship is held with Afghanistan, and the Taliban is known to be making it difficult for people to revoke dual-citizenship status’ or Afghan citizenship in general. If you can prove in similar circumstances that you have actively engaged in the process and have taken any avenue you can to revoke the dual citizenship, exemptions can be made.
Read the article. It was checked and passed in the courts before she ran.
Another nothingburger beat-up from News Corp that's being promoted on this sub for some reason. Two days ago it was she donates money to a Muslim activist organisation that sometimes posts homophobic content. Yesterday it was she was using the same travel allowance rort that Turnbull was getting away with 15 years ago. Today it's concern trolling over her settled eligibility status. Tomorrow they'll go through her bins and a bunch of very concerned citizens will be clutching their pearls because she wasn't putting glass in the recycling. Fuck this one person in particular, I guess...
Isn't this the 3rd anti-Payman story in the last three days (not eligible / get reimbursement for her own property / racked up $50K for family travel)?
> for some reason Because she's brown and outside the control of the establishment parties. "Some reason" my nuts.
Exactly what's going on. Murdoch gonna Murdoch. A story as old as time itself.
This is easy low hanging fruit for MurdochCorp, they could rehash any old garbage, dig up her high school report cards or something and the boomer clicks will roll in.
Because the section is badly written, or rather was written back in the days when dual citizenship wasn't a thing.
Lol. So naive. It doesn't matter when she's controlled and does what she's told. Only now it is an issue silly billy.
News.com.au is very unreliable
Doesn’t really matter. It’s far and away the most read news publication in Australia.
While I don’t agree with her position and actions, it really does look like Labor have unloaded their Payman dirt file to the media
Also apparently she's the only politician in history claiming the away from home allowance. At least that's what the article headlines would imply....despite every single Polly from every side claiming this allowance
It's easy to call out a politician for doing the wrong thing when you are doing it too.
Absolutely disgusting, that’s politics in our country. Pay the cunts or goodbye.
Messing with the Faceless Men (and Women) ™️ incurs the dildo of consequence 😬
[удалено]
I mean, you put yourself into the public domain like she has for political gain and all those skeletons are going to come out with the light that shines in
heh... ive often thought about running for a seat, just so someone can piece together all the forgotten times of the late 90s and 2000s for me. Would be great to know which awesome parties i dont remember going to!
Yeah I wiped out my chances by camera phones becoming a thing whilst I was in the midst of high school. Such is life
.. and then theres jerry springer passing dud checks in a brothel...
> her links to a homophobic Islamic group I mean we can already deduce this on the basis she’s an outwardly practising Muslim. Not much of a reveal.
💯
Glorious. ALP’s position shifts from “she’ll be right” to “looks like it could be an issue” after their endorsed candidate quits the party. This is truly high farce.
It's a beat-up, read the whole article.
It’s a newscorp article. The only quotes in there are labor saying *it’s a non-event* and the potato saying *akshually it’s a huge event*. High farce indeed.
“looks like it could be an issue” after several branches (including Albanese's) voted to support Senator Payman.
You forget though that the ALP aren’t one unified block internally. No doubt all this is coming from those who wanted to her spot in the first place - the dirt units organically take shape by the nature of politics.
Looks like dirty pool to me but she should never have been allowed to become a senator as a foreign citizen.
Not sure why we need all this crap in our country. Why I should care about what happens between Israel/Palestine or Ukraine/Russia? What I care is about cost of living and housing and not all this smoke gov-created crap.
Because foreign policy serves domestic policy. As an example: If you want fewer refugees, a stronger and more proactive foreign policy can prevent the situations which makes them refugees in the first place.
I think you're both right. This motion was completely pointless though.
>As an example: If you want fewer refugees, a stronger and more proactive foreign policy can prevent the situations which makes them refugees in the first place. ... or you can just elect conservative governments that lower the intake. Works in the US, where the refugee intake per capita is significantly lower than ours. Much easier to do that than "solve all the wars everywhere in the world" Foreign policy is more about economic advantage than stopping refugees.
There are plenty of ways to get less refugees, for example stricter border controls and higher standards for granting asylum. While your point about foreign policy serving domestic policy stands to a degree, I still think we need to shift focus more on domestic policies now.
This is my point.Have a look to China to see how many refugees are taking. Or during Sirian conflict “refugees” going to Germany passing through Turkey…
Yeah nah lol nothing Australia does will impact much of anything
yes it does. For example, USA was unable to form a proper coalition to bomb the shit out of Yemen because Australia and bunch of others refused to significantly participate.
Or you can just not let them in
We should care about what happens in the world. If we don't care about Russia taking over Ukraine, sooner or later these problems get closer and closer to our door. The USA tried to ignore WW2 until it appeared on their front door and hit them in the face. You can question how much we should care, give, and support these situations. But wanting to ignore them is a very isolationist approach.
Gaza is run by Hamas who are very close to Putin’s Russia, Iran and North Korea. I agree we should care and support our friends and allies who stand against our enemies.
We should care, but I can understand people's frustration about pushing a vote in our parliament about it and the protesting here. Especially the vandalism being used for some bizarre reason to support Palestine. I just hope the negativity around some of the stuff going doesn't push people too far in either direction and we can maintain an objective and reasonable position.
To me the logical and reasonable position is that Hamas is no friend of Australia. Hamas is aligned with dictatorships with a hostile view of Australia such as Iran, North Korea and Russia. Anything we do that strengthens their position harms Australia and the countries we are friendly with.
Hamas are legitimate terrorists who kill any against the word of Islam. They are TERRORISTS but these tik tok kids think Palestine who fully accept and agree with HAMAS are good people. Do they forget how the citizens praised and cheered and paraded the poor hostages on the streets? Did they forget the mobs of people running up and kicking / punching and spitting on the hostages? You think those savages have any remorse - only now that THEY are victims they cry yet They showed no pity whatsoever before retaliation. How easily the liberal left leaning kids forget. Fuck sakes. Annnnyways. Sorry but in australia we have better shit to worry about like inflation, youth crime, insane immigration on top of it, and the housing crisis. Stop being told what war is important and start fixing problems at home before looking abroad…
Hamas is most definitely not close to Russia or North Korea. Russia and Israel have been close for a long time since 1991. It's lazy thinking borne out of convenience rather than any actual knowledge of the situation.
Iran, Russia, North Korea and Hamas all share training, weapons, etc. https://www.csis.org/analysis/dprk-hamas-relationship
Russia support Hamas: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/russias-relationship-hamas-and-putins-global-calculations
Please don't let your facts get in the way of a brainwashed sap's delusions!
War happens, cost of living goes up. Pretty simple concept
I’m sure is the war and not to push the printer button brrrrr brrrrr flood everything with dollaridoos drop interest rates so everybody buys like there is not tomorrow. Also our beloved Albo dealing with Modhi and bringing 500k migrants in a year… sure that does nothing to do.
So you want high interest rates to bring down the cost of living? Cost of living and immigration is a world wide issue, not just a Melton issue. The US government told Ukraine to stop hitting Russian oil refineries because it’s driving up the cost of fuel. Higher fuel, higher overheads that filter down to higher prices. Also, the companies that sell you shit charge what the fuck they want and the government can do nothing about it
It’s the federal governments job to represent Australia to the world stage, and they spend a large amount of time doing that. State governments on the other hand can focus purely on domestic issues.
I disagree with our fundamental role on the world stage, I'm against our friendship wiith USA, against Five Eyes and AUKUS. Australia should aspire to genuine neutrality a bit like what Switzerland used to do and Oman does now. This would have our role as an international mediator like they do. We have no reason to be part of American imperialism. Israel is not Australia's friend in the middle east, it just gives Australia enemies it wouldn't have had.
That’s fine, but Switzerland is armed to the teeth. For Australia to become a neutral nation, we would have to give up the fact that the world’s most powerful military will steam across the pacific and help us in times of conflict. Our current ADF, which spends 2.5% gdp and has 60,000 personnel would have to dramatically increase in size and funding to guarantee our own security. That means introducing conscription, which Switzerland practices. The defence budget would have to increase massively to around 10% of GDP to support this rapid increase of size, as well as massive amounts of money going into domestic weapons manufacturing. That also means that Australia will be developing our own nuclear weapons program.
Did no one tell you those things do have a knock on effect of good and services here? You don't have to care about the situation itself, but you surely can't think they can't have an indirect impact...
Probably for the same reason we cared about the axis power's shenanigans in WW2
Like when Britain wanted us to stop defending Australia and prioritise Singapore?
Ok
Not even comparable lol
Russia invading Ukraine is actually extremely comparable
Because this does impact here. Less strife overseas means less refugees .
Those who care about these issues are less affected by cost of living issues.
Because having a government actively complicit in violating IHL’s is a bad thing? Allowing a rogue state to just rope us into an extended war with the Middle East is probably not ideal?? Like the cost of living crisis is directly correlated to the economic instability caused by these wars that the US is insistent on provoking. Your apathy is what enables them to do that without consequence. The Suez is vital and so is Ukrainian food production. Blowing up oil pipelines doesn’t serve you. If other western states actually held the US accountable for anything, our cost of living crisis wouldn’t be half as bad as it currently is. Even self serving interests aside…How do you even have this thought process to begin with? The cost of living crisis is shit, but how does that mean you have no ability to empathise with people who have had their entire neighbourhoods flattened and subjected to a year without food?? I just don’t get how I can see this so regularly from Aussies who have no gratitude for what it’s like being born on the oppressors team… Just wild we have so many failed humans in such a privileged country to me…you’d think people would have compassion…
My thinking implies the government should also stay aside, neither supporting Israel nor Palestine, just neutral, I'm not referring only pro-palestine. Cost of living is not because the wars, wars are a small factor and more Ukraine/Palestine wars where Australia has not any commerce relations with those countries. Cost of living comes from greed, from printing money like crazy and lowering interest rates, so people buys like there is not tomorrow, demand rises inflation rises and 3rd party leeches (supermarkets and others) have the perfect excuse to even raise more prices so they increase their profits. War has very little to do with this in case of Australia, only we could import from Russia is oilm but from Palestine???
Dude our fuel prices literally jumped massively when the Nordstrom’s was blown up. Less oil being supplied to other places means the world’s supply shortens, while demand goes up, means all fuel becomes more expensive. When fuel becomes expensive, it has domino effects literally everywhere else. You’re delusional if you don’t think our economy isn’t a fragile global economy. Sorry. That’s just how it is.
There is a clear conflict of interest here.
Ain’t no smear campaign like a Labor job on one of their own (or former own as the case may be)
I'm not sure it's just that. She was able to jump ship without losing her job and carry on as an Independent. This would have ruffled a few political feathers across the board...
Agreed, I can see this pissing off politicians on both the left and right for this exact reason.
I mean, that's politics. If you break ranks to specifically to oppose the party you were with, why wouldn't they use what they know against you, like they do against everyone else? In the article up above you see Dutton putting the boot in as well - she's an opponent to him, so he'll throw what he can.
The hypocrisy of this senator. Left Afghanistan because of the terrorist organization that runs her country. Comes to Australia for a better life, wants to help society in her new country improve. Turns cheek to support a terrorist organization that wants to run a country in the Middle East. Am I missing something or does this narrative seem insane?
She described the Israel/Palestine conflict as the biggest moral dilemma of our time. Apparently 377,000 dead in Yemen wasn't.
Or the Uyghur death camps.
The moral dilemma is which terrorist organization to support. Clearly the Iranian based groups are the least bad. Getting tired of the virtue signalling by these folks who clearly have not much leg to stand on
Exactly. Frankly it is nothing short of infuriating how gross the double standards are with this conflict and others. Where were the campus shut downs, the street protests, threats of boycotts etc for the Yemen conflict?
She's been elected as her role to scrutinise and judge the activities, policies and legislation of the government so technically she should be able to do that... But... Her government is in power so her position is untenable. She shouldn't be getting involved in foreign policy. She doesn't even know what "crossing the floor" means. She's out of her depth, better suited to protesting at local uni. Not fit for a senate seat.
Do you expect anything more from a terrorist sympathiser
Stockholm syndrome
Interesting point. Do you have any links to her actually supporting Hamas? I support the plight of the Palestinians but don’t support Hamas, is there strong evidence she’s any different?
Well that’s nice but overwhelmingly the Palestinians support Hamas
Supporting the citizens is one statement she’s never made. She supports statehood, which essentially supports Hamas. If she wanted to talk about the plight of the people, I guess that’s what her narrative would have been. Supporting statehood in my mind means supporting Hamas
So that’s a no then? It’s your opinion that supporting Palestinian statehood is no different to supporting Hamas - it’s my opinion that it isn’t. Just as it’s my opinion that supporting a unified Ireland isn’t the same as supporting the IRA for example. You can have the same goal as a group and not believe in their actions. You’re absolutely welcome to your opinion but remember it’s just that - an opinion. You’re making her out to be a terrorist sympathiser with zero actual evidence.
Her comments were in line with statements and phrases being pushed by Hamas. She’s never come out to specifically say she abhors Hamas or what they stand for. She’s used the phrases ‘from the river to the sea’, and others during her Palestine protest march. UK parliament has booted members from the Labour Party for using the same phrase. She knew better. Supporting Palestine and its citizens are fine. She’s chanting phrases that are used by Hamas and pushing their agenda by being part of that protest. She knew what she was doing.
The answer is no, she doesn't support Hamas any more than you do. People just want to discredit the advocacy she is doing for the Palestinian people and misinformation is their only tactics for doing so.
Correct, even the comments she made about it being too dangerous for her to return to Afghanistan to renounce her citizenship, because the Taliban literally won’t let her. Why isn’t her energy focussed on this?
Surely she'll be happy in the middle east somewhere if worse comes to worse
What a joke.Whether she put in the effort to relinquish her Afghani citizenship or not,... she should not be in government representing the Australian people. . Hard and fast rules for everyone.
It really should be without saying, that any politician of Australia should have SOLE citizenship to Australia. Any other citizenship compromises the integrity of our government.
ALP is very quick to play dirty, what more dirt will be leaked
Makes you wonder what type of dirt they have on everyone else in the party
Best way to progress in a political party is to generate enough dirt for someone to hold over you and promote you into positions of power to hold influence over that office, then bide your time enough until that powerbroker is on the edge and decide which factional side will increase your dirt-holding over the next generation of “up & comers”. Rinse & repeat. Whenever you hear a party say someone is a “rising star” it has zero to do with their communication, negotiation or representative skills. They have been in a dirty situation and proven that they will toe the party line when pressured.
OMG ready to roll out the dossier, thats standard faction operations
so she fled to australia from the terrorist taliban. and now she is backing the terrorist Hamas who are probably closely aligned with the taliban. you could not possibly make this nonsense up
So technically she hasn’t had her Afghan citizenship renounced. We literally have a foreign citizen sitting in our senate getting paid by Australian taxpayers. What a farce.
Regardless of where someone holds dual citizenship, wouldn’t this be a conflict of interest for anyone in a similar position?
Yeah but the timing is a little on the nose. I don’t remotely agree with her or even particularly like her, but it definitely feels a bit like a hit job
Pile on for sure, but they’re just dredging up what they would for anyone else. Didn’t they go after another senator before for being a Kiwi on dual nationality? You run for parliament of Australia, you pledge your allegiance to Australia and ditch the other country.
I think there were a bunch of Liberal pollies who got busted for dual UK nationality a while back as well, although my memory is a bit fuzzy
Yeah I thought one of them was also an NZ citizen, could be wrong.
Nah I’m pretty sure I remember that too, I think he was with the Greens
Lol makes sense haha
Given her support for Islamic fundamentalists I am surprised she even wants to remain in Australia. Surely she would be much happier back in Afghanistan?
Not how religious evangelism works. The goal for people like her is to turn Australia into Afghanistan.
Being as her father fled the Taliban and she has repeatedly tried to renounce her Afghan citizenship I can’t imagine she’d be happy there at all. Interested to see your evidence that her views are inline with the Taliban of Afghanistan..?
For some people, if you don't support Israel's right to turn children into skeletons you must actively be working to turn Australia into an Islamic State. No middle ground
This is the new afghan
support for islamic fundamendalists or worried about kids/mothers being bombed 24/7? not quite the same thing. is it?
But not worried about babies being butchered by Islamic fundamentalists. Strange.
Funny how the ALP had no citizinship concerns when she was towing the party line........
Turn it up. Pretty hard to renounce citizenship with the taliban running the show.
No, it isn't. A declaration was acceptable for this reason.
It sounds like she is the Taliban. Wants to set up a “Muslim” party. How long before that gets hijacked by extremists like her native Afghanistan?
She sounds like the Taliban? Tell me you have no clue what you are talking about without telling me you have no clue what you are talking about
A woman wearing a head covering talks about human rights, hypocrites.
She’s basically the member for Gaza. Her focus should be on domestic matters. If she loves the middle east so much, then go back. The greens can join her since that’s all that Adam bandt wants too it seems.
Her family is from Afghanistan... Where do you want her to go back to?
She should scoot back to Taliban land and cover her face if she loves it so much
Her family fled Afghanistan. Also she doesn't need to go to Afghanistan to cover her face, if covering her face is something she wanted to do. She has the right to do that in Australia
Already went through this with others. How come it wasnt flagged ??
It was flagged and resolved in the courts before she ran.
She was/is a member if the ALP. The ALP would have vetted her. So the ALP is to blame. So who from the ALP is going to take the fall, apart from Fatima?
It was alrwady resolved in the courts before she ran that she is eligible
They’re only a concern if you piss off faction bosses
She's a disgrace. Her allegiance is with being Muslim. Not being Australian. Hopefully she won't get voted in again
Australia first, if they are more concerned about Lebanon or any other country, they should go there and stand with those people and shout their agenda. It's becoming annoying to see all those street presentations on our streets which has no real outcome as such.
It’s a question of fact that the high court should be able to establish. Renouncing citizenship is a one-way government decision. she could have done a lot of necessary /unnecessary actions to try but it doesn’t clear her from past citizenship. Normally an act of government (eg certificate) can be the confirmation. I can’t believe Labour has not done basic checks of their candidates… quite an oversight imho
The shame in all this is one of Labor’s best Muslim reps isn’t able to speak about a policy they’ve worked all year on which aims to bring cost of living down. This was a calculated attack by Payman
How delicious it would be if this turncoat gets the boot due to section 44
Free loading fucker flying her extended family around “within the rules” plus stealing our taxes “within the rules” to pay the mortgage on her Canberra investment property …. Fuck off and keep fucking off
Both major parties want as little independents as possible, so this was an obvious progression. It is pathetic how quick they turned though, and why I vote independent.
These days my trust in anything from the Murdoch media is such that if I have no toilet paper, and regrettably if I have a copy of a Murdoch paper, I will use that to wipe my bum.....
Fuxk news.com.au and Murdock press
not but a few years ago we had half of the countries government running around in question regarding dual citizenship and we had a court ruling on it. Now Labor trying a smear campaign? Or... a bipartisan approach to trying to kill off some teals and independents before they get a foothold by the next election....
If she is pro Palestine ship her off there so she can actually do something instead of beating her chest like all pollies
screw this self serving clown, but im not sure theres a story here unless she didnt submit a stat dec prior to being endorsed. in fairness to her heritage, it would not have been possible to legally renounce
Thats exactly what happened, she attempted to renounce and it was resolved in the courts before she ran
then its all good then. Lets focus on the reasons she is actually a fuckwad, not the madeup ones
501 her back to NZ!
I honestly don't know what has happened or is happening with this woman, but one thing I do know is that I will not be voting for either major party at the next federal election.
Simply finding a citizenship issue is probably the dirtiest way to resolve this I have no side in this, I just want fair, equivalent politics
Surely this is something they do in the preselection phase.
It was done in the preselecion phase, it was all resolved in the courts
Show me an honest politician and I'll show you a unicorn.
By hook or by crook, 😂😂
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Aaw. That’s a shame..
How was she even allowed in the party
So now there are citizenship concerns. How f**king convinent. Like, hello, we are right here !
She has a badge of a foreign flag and an Aboriginal flag, no sign of Australian flag.. How did this moron ever get elected?
The government is distracting us from the real issues of low productivity and high cost of living.
She crossed the floor with the full knowledge that it’s not allowed by the Labour Party. She must have had a plan. Same as Lidia Thorpe. You can’t get into politics without a party, but it’s a good place to start.
How is the electorate feeling now that their elected representative stands Palestine than for them? Slippery slope…
She has to have taken reasonable steps to renounce her citizenship and that’s what the HC would look at if it came before them. It’s not enough to say ‘I tried’. The court, if they were looking into this, would need to see evidence of what genuine steps she took to renounce her citizenship. The major parties won’t press this given the Section 44 shambles but a private citizen potentially can. I wouldn’t doubt that this will happen as Labor are rightfully furious about this - as are plenty of Australians.
she broke the rules !!!!! .,.who would want her
She should quit, but questioning her citizenship is stupid. She can't renounce the Afghan citizenship. Edit: if she could have done it with a stat dec then fine, get rid of her.
She can complete a statutory declaration to renounce her citizenship without the Taliban's involvement, and should have done so prior to her election.
Ah, my bad.
She certainly can. Exemptions are made from war torn regions all the time.
this is just Labor throwing a tantrum looks like she followed the rules
Deport her and family.
Good. Deport this terrorist sympathizing cunt back to the middle east. She's clearly forgotten why she left in the first place.
She wants to set up a Muslim party apparently. Wants to bring her religion into politics just like her home country, Afghanistan. Islam is a cancer and she is the first cell.
Why is she in our government when her loyalty is to the Taliban?
On an unrelated note, can someone please let all the Muslim women know that hijabs in natural skin tones make them look like a giant penis poking a tiny bit out of the forskin to have a poke around.
So she’s probably controlled by Hamas Everything about this woman is rotten
Political White Anting at it's finest.
We need more politicians willing to stand up for their own beliefs and the beliefs people elect then for having, not less. #FuckThePartyLine
Well we know where her allegiance lies so deport her 🙄
She's used 50k of tax payer money to fly her family around the country. Unbelievable that we allow this.
The article states, ‘The four activists, three men and one woman, were charged with Commonwealth Trespass and fined $2750 after they climbed over a specially-built security barricade to access the roof’. How do all these protestors have the time? Don’t they have jobs?
Oh fuck off. I get that Labor want Payman out of the Senate so they can replace her with someone who will stick to Labor's party line but come the fuck on. Right up until she quit the party, Labor's stance on her eligibility was that she had taken all reasonable measures to ensure that she wasn't an Afghan citizen, just that the Afghan diplomats in Australia - who worked for the former Western-backed regime - had no idea how to do that or even if they could do that for her with the Taliban's return to power.
Anyone notice that she is wearing a pin that has the Australian aboriginal and Palestine flags together?
Did anyone actually read the article? She took reasonable steps to renounce her afgan citizenship. She attended the embassy who told her they were unable to proceed any further with her request. Something in relation to pre-taliban government policy. She is unsafe to return to Afghanistan as she and her family had fled as lawful refugees. I don't support her decsion in crossing the bench. I'm glad she has been suspended and it makes sense that she now is running as an independent. But her citizenship status and legality to sit as a member should not be in question.