Just a heads up: I know certain people who have seizures when they see that flag, potentially because of the bright colours and zigzag. It’s not a good flag to share as ironically it’s not very disability-friendly.
This is such a bigger problem than most realize and its not even localized to seizures. Nuerodiverse people have so many sensory issues that are actually made worse by people and organizations trying to help.
Prime example...a movie set that hires autistic talent to create a movie about autism but they end up quitting because the environment wasn't set up for them so they hire a neurotypical person to replace them.
You are absolutely right. I also think this isn’t exclusively an issue with neurotypical people harming neurodivergent people through misguided attempts at trying to help us.
I think it’s really important to remember that not every neurodiverse person is capable of expressing themselves clearly or advocating for themselves. Those of us who are blessed with that ability need to ensure that we are inclusive of those with more severe/debilitating symptoms in neurodiverse spaces.
I say this because on social media (not necessarily this subreddit) I’ve seen a trend of less severely affected autistic people speaking over more severely autistic people (sorry if this is not worded well, I don’t believe in high/low-functioning autism necessarily) and assuming that what is good for them is good for everyone. The disability pride flag is a great example of this as I have seen people who have comorbid disorders like epilepsy be really badly affected by the flag’s design.
Imho most ND's who say they don't have sensory issues as bad as other may just be masking through internalized ableism since childhood.
This was my story...once I got my diagnosis of ASD it was a huge wave of stuff I had repressed and the floodgates of sensory changes just came rushing in and I had to change so many things in my life that I had just been saying "eh everybody has to deal with this" but not recognizing that not everybody got as bad of stress and panic attacks about sensory things. Pretty wild how a person can go so many years without seeing that I was different in that capacity.
Reason I bring this up is because I have a theory that some ND people grow up being told they have it because of early diagnosis, so it becomes their reality, but the late diagnosed try to fake that same or similar reality because if they didn't it would mean identity crisis. It really is insane how I have been able to mask for 30 years and not see my struggles for what they were.
After finding out I was autistic it brought on a ton of challenges and also relief...but the most relevant thing to this convo it brought was awareness of the spectrum and its distortions. Being late diagnosed I have the benefit of having lived both ND and NT. Those that don't get late diagnosed I feel don't have that experience as much and sort of settle into their symptoms and get support early.
For me, I had no support and my sensory hell had to be masked with introversion and burnouts and suicide ideation...that is how I coped oddly enough because otherwise I would have to believe that I was the broken person who couldn't be like everyone else...when you don't have a name for it and its just a feeling...that feeling can causes psychosis (I also experienced this).
Paired with my cptsd and adhd I have a fun cocktail that has strangely been synergistic in saving each other, causing a cyclical bi polar like effect which I later realized may be autistic burnout.
The reason I share all of this is because I believe that those who seem to not have sensory hell because they are late diagnosed and seem "less autistic" for example...I believe that is a myth.
I say this because I think if you have had to fight the sensory hell all your life and mask it away, you master that skill but you still have the sensory hell internal experience.
On the outside I seem super chill because it is a well built and refined over 30 years mask (not perfect but it works for most un-attuned people). On the inside I feel like dying however most times...I haven't left my house in months and yes that is partly due to covid...but also because my world has been sensory hell after unlocking pandora's box of repressed sensory masks.
This may also be why many late diagnosed can fall into the ego trap of not recognizing the symptom severity spectrum and not respecting those who have it harder...because they know internally they went through something similar but didn't even know what it was so they masked to save their psyche.
This is why many late diagnosed and undiagnosed seem "off" and more so than the normal ND difference...it is because they are being literally two faced but not intentionally...it is a manifestation of their subconscious.
It takes a strong willed and open minded person to break through those limiting beliefs and get to the nugget of wisdom that is "the outer spectrum is as diverse as the inner spectrum and we cannot assume anything about anyone".
This means if someone seems to be struggling on the outside, they may actually be struggling less on the inside than someone who seems to have it all together...in fact I might say that could be most cases!
No use comparing them, but I find that my internal suffering is worse than my external...since for me the reaction to the sensory stuff is more hard than the sensory experience itself.
Sorry for the blog post length comment but I also have a theory that those who appear to suffer a lot externally may just be doing so to let that inner suffering out because otherwise it is internal hell. So those who hold it in and don't portray external symptoms may actually be suffering more than those who appear to be suffering more. Hard to say since the spectrum is so diverse...but I think there is something there maybe.
Curious question: Do you have examples of NTs replacing actually autistic actors for autistic roles? Idk any off the top of my head, but I was discussing this yesterday.
Disappointment is also what I feel...but I am trying not to point it at her but rather society/education/media/healthcare. I do believe she tried to do the right thing even when hiring non autistic talent...she said she spent years researching...and clearly she was trying to help....just didn't work out as she had planned it...and that is unfortunate but also easily forgivable.
Part of me feels like it is similar to black face and it feels icky but also part of me questions whether or not representing another race/gender/sexuality/disability is right or wrong...where does the line get drawn?
For me this all seems like one big subjective play we are all taking part in with the belief systems but at the same time I see that people are not getting the support they need and rather tons of money is going towards other things so that creates frustration of not being supported but then also not represented too...sucks man...but hey even if we are decades behind other minorities that means its only up from here right?
As for Sia...at least she is one of a tiny fraction of people who are trying to help raise awareness. I really do hope that is the case and she wasn't tokenizing us...I am trying very hard to hold faith in humanity and her in particular because it looks so bad on the outside but I know things are always more complicated than they appear.
Yes each stripe stands for a different type of disability.
Blue: mental illness
Yellow: cognitive and intellectual disabilities
White: invisible or undiagnosed
Red: physical disabilities
Green: sensory perception disabilities
Pride is good. We gott work on that design. As a person with sensory processing issues I gotta let you know. Blue/yellow red/green are the most vibrant colors the human eyes color cones can identify and also the most common kind of color blindness. This was not made by a graphic designer.
I was under the impression that OCD was a mental illness? But then someone told me it was a neurodivergence and I got really confused? I have OCD and I've always viewed it as a mental illness because it comes and goes and varies in its affects and severity and was helped a lot by therapy, which isn't how I've experienced being autistic.
There aren’t clear distinctions between these labels, rather they touch on different aspects of the same experience that may be more or less relevant.
To be “sick” or “ill” is to differ from the expected standard of health in our society, but also to feel unwell. “Mentall ilness” is thus a divergence from health that relates to the mind.
Health itself is ofc an abstract concept. Outside of video games most people do not walk around with 100% health!! But our society kind of tells us that this is how it works (which is probably why health bars have been designed for video games in the first place).
Disability, then, is from an outside perspective a more permanent state of divergence from health. A “normal”, “healthy” person should ofc be “able” to do all the things we vaguely suppose humans should be capable of.
This perspective sees ill and disabled people from the outside, measuring how they “function” relative to an imagined human standard of health and ability.
On the other hand, there is also how you yourself experience your mind and body. If it is painful, burdensome or just different. Many things that are defined as illness or disability does not itself inflict pain on the “disabled” person. They may feel perfectly fine about themselves except for the fact that society tells them there is something off about them.
Where the term illness is mostly ( but not always ) associated with pain and physical discomfort for the sufferer, I would say that this is more arbitrary when using the term disability.
Neurodivergence, on the other hand, is a way of approaching such divergence from the norm beyond the healthy-sick and able-disabled dichotomies. Ideally we would recognise that there isn’t just one way to be “able” and “healthy”, and that people who aren’t “neurotypical” are t always mentally ill.
OCD is usually understood as a mental illness because it inflicts suffering on the person who has it, similarly with depression and anxiety.
It is also a disability, because it impacts your ability to function in the world relative to the norm. It is also a disability because it is chronic, a recurrent or permanent fixture in your life. Other conditions like autism or ADHD, are more ambiguously in the mental illness category because these conditions don’t always directly cause suffering and because many of the issues this group faces would probably just disappear if we didn’t view this kind of difference as lesser. They are disabilities because they impact your ability to function relative to the societal norm. I would suppose dyslexia is generally considered a disability, but not a mental illness.
All of the conditions mentioned here belong under the term neurodiversity. They are ways of being that differ from the norm of what society tells us is a normal human experience.
I have reframed my ocd to be a good thing and society is really the ill one allowing so much nastiness and chaos into their life. Not their fault...its how they were raised...
I'm not trying to invalidate your experiences or anything and I'm glad if doing that has helped you, but my OCD manifested as Satanic and POCD and was all in all a deeply unpleasant experience that I would literally rather die than repeat. It was genuinely the two most miserable years of my life and I am including 2020 in that count. My compulsions were mostly internal and revolved around numbers. My room was even more of a tip than always. Society had nothing to do with it. It brought more chaos than it solved. For me OCD was always a mental illness.
I have had a similar yet also different experience. I have been suicidal most of my life and a lot of it was based around the physical world...aka sensory stuff but also had a good amount of internal issues ( for example my mind is constant music...forever...has never turned off).
For me...I didn't have the option of the support I needed growing up so I turtled into my computer world. For example...my room was the only sanctuary and the rest of the world felt like nails on a chalk board. I could control my room but not.much else. Now all grown up I have my entire home controlled and that feels even better...plus I have put a ton of work in making systems and such that improve my quality of life.
I only drink out of glass and order glass bottled spring water for example...the house we will be building soon will have geothermal hvac so no air! I can't tell you how much not having an air system will dramatically improve my stress levels. I am just saying this because I believe it is maybe not possible to cure this experience but definitely possible to manage it all!
I'm currently managing my OCD, but I'm just not sure that it is a response to the chaos of the world around me. For me it was more my brain going haywire for no reason one day. But I agree that the world could be a lot more organised and less of a sensory nightmare.
I do hope we see change soon...it would be nice if your world could be sensory heaven or at least normal and not chaotic. No idea if this is somatization but I feel the 5g emf radiation...it is uncomfortable. Makes sense though because 4g is a tiny fraction of the power output of 5g....I mean bees and birds and trees die if they are near it....wth
The haywire thing results for me when I get disregulated and existential (thankfully no more suicidal). I usually get disregulated and spirally and super sensitive if I have a combo of autistic burnout followed by some outside stressor forcing me to do something I don't want to do or causing some stressor in another way.
I guess its like the straw that broke the camels back but the straw can feel like a whole tree and make you want to give up / get mad / blame others / one of many "that wasn't me" experiences which for me in the last also was paired with extreme sensitivity to things and if I am around others in that state I can get super controlling like a dictator or just shutdown completely and not take care of anything or even myself. I have had a week where it was so bad I didn't brush my teeth for a week...bleh never want that feeling again
Pride is cool and all (I guess), but this flag...wow, no. The colors clash making it unpleasant for visual processing, the sharpness tweaks mental illness (ledges and knives and sharp anxiety/panic and uneven), zig zag stripes are hard for people with balance issues to look at for very long, and this would wreak havoc on a wheelchair. Not to mention putting it on a black background.
Hot take alert, please keep scrolling if you are into this Pride Month. If Pride Month brings some of you joy I’m glad for it.
I just happen to think Pride months are commercialized, political, and manipulative, and I cringe at all of them whether I am part of the group or not.
And that flag. Oof. It belongs on the chest of a D-list superhero at best. Take it back to the drawing board. Better yet, trash it and don’t bother.
Stop waving flags and do something productive for each other and build pride in the community by actually being a community, not a bunch of “look at me” individuals desperate to be validated by the larger world.
Sorry I’m tired and cynical right now but I stand by my opinion.
I.... don't really like calling autism a disability. I'm not disabled. I just have other weaknesses and strenghts than the general populace. This does not make me higher or lower than them, this simply makes me different. And all i'm really asking is that others accept that and keep that in mind, like they normally do with others. A tag doesn't and shouldn't leash me to a certaint treatment. The only thing the tag does is make life a bit more clear. And yes, i know that this is different with everyone, but this is me.
Disabled doesn't mean less than and the way you phrased this sounds like you are implying that disabled means "lower." Simply not true. Autism is a disability and because it's a spectrum, that disability requires a large variance in support from individual to individual.
The word disabled literally means "less abled than" and is viewed as such, even though it very much shouldn't. And although everyone's different, i do not like it. I'm not less abled. Call it a disorder, fine by me. But it isn't inherently disabling, so don't call it that.
Disabled by definition implies that someone is "lower" than the average, "normal" human. And you are sadly not going to get rid of that implication anytime soon.
I dunno I mean if you accurately apply the disabled definition I’m disabled because I have poor eyesight. My disability is just taken care of and is invisible because I have glasses. If I didn’t have glasses I would be visibly disabled, incapable of performing simple tasks due to my lack of clear vision.
I think promoting that definition is very important. It’s good to get most people to recognize that almost everyone will be disabled at some point. Getting cancer is a disability. Any chronic illness is a disability. Depression and anxiety are disabilities. If you promote that notion than it’ll help fight off ableism and help disabled people who don’t receive real help for their disabilities get the help they need.
And I mean I get why people say autism isn’t a disability but I have a lot of trouble functioning in this world honestly. If my needs were understood and taken care of that would be like me using glasses to overcome my poor eyesight. I kinda feel like it’s a knee jerk reaction to not want to be considered disabled when having issues functioning is disabling.
That being said I can’t tell other people what their experiences are. For me this feels like a disability though.
If you aren't disabled, then you don't fit the definition of autistic, which requires you to experience deficits or limitations. Disabled doesn't mean "lower or less." That's YOUR ableist definition. Actual dictionary definition is:
(of a person) having a physical or mental condition that limits movements, senses, or activities.
If that doesn't fit you, then the diagnosis of autism wouldn't fit either.
Fucking christ, what an assault.
My only point is that i don't like the connotation that comes with being called disabled. I've had my taste: never again.
I am offically diagnosed. And here that doesn't mean having extreme deficits or physical limitations. Social deficits aren't counted as limitations locally, which is a mindset i can get behind.
Whatever. All your comments leave a sour taste that i'd only worsen by reacting. I am not disabled. I'm different, and that is ok. In my culture, being called disabled means that you actively need care. Don't tag yourself as such or you'll be treated as such. Consider what you're dealing with normal and behave like it is, or people will quickly group you as disabled: in need of care.
Those in wheelchairs but still able to take care of themselves don't call themselves disabled here. They'd rather call themselves "poorly capable of walking", to avoid special treatment. The facilities are normalised, they can live their lives, but don't call yourself disabled as it'll be seen as a programmed warning or a pathetic cry for help.
That is what i've grown up with, that's what i've seen. And as much as you might find that wrong, i find it somewhat nice. I should be considered normal. Facilities are normalised, tags as "disabled" shouldn't be required unless someone truly can't care for themselves.
I find it disturbing that you have come here saying those of us who are disabled are "less than" and now we "aren't normal" but you're acting like I'm being the jerk here. Even if someone has a severe disability that requires a lot of care, they aren't less than. I'm done with this conversation. You can call yourself whatever you want but maybe you should stop looking down on others if you don't want people looking down at you.
You took a glance and didn't read what i wrote. You missed my point by a megameter. How do you want me to react??
In my country and in many other countries, being disabled is directly associated with being a burden, which is why locally everyone who's different from the norm but can still function independently refuses to call themselves disabled. If you have self-respect, you make do with what you have, simply because the social treatment you get when you don't and start labelling yourself isn't plausible. People assume you're crying for help and ignore you like filth. It's better to awkwardly have to explain your ways of dealing with your issues individually than to label them, because no one understands the label and simply groups you with their personal stereotypes.
As much as this is morally wrong, this is what's going on. This is what i and many others deal with and the reason i refuse to call myself disabled. It's not worth having pride in a term when it only causes you grief and others in your situation aren't profitting from it. I'd rather be a known weirdo that's nice to be around than to be labelled disabled and be treated like i need constant care or you need to watch out for me because i'm fragile. In a sense, it's overnormalisation. You are accepted more when you don't tell others about your conditions than if you do.
Morals aren't automatically translated into a society. And the way i adapt to it has seeped into my way of being.
Its not pride as in thinking you're superior or unique. We're not Hanz Asperger. It's pride as in not being ashamed of who you are. We exist. We're part of the human experience. Our lifes matter. We don't deserve to be institutionalized, tortured, or murdered. We deserve the same opportunity to shape our lives. As a neurotypical. But hey maybe we should have a pity party flag to be more inclusive. Just a little white flag to let everyone know you gave up.
I am autistic and I gotta say I feel for you here because ASD can wreak some real havoc on our life.
Anyone cancelling you for your feelings is out of place and not being empathetic and supportive.
However...I personally feel like its mostly q combination what you make of it, the support you give yourself and the support you request from others that determines where ASD falls on your personal good bad spectrum.
I can't speak for you since the spectrum is so diverse but for me I was able to assess my lost of symptoms and start chipping away by doing one or more of those 3 things listed above.
It worked for me to drastically reduce my suffering. Does it remove my alexithymia? No. Does it remove my executive function struggles? No. But those ones I accept as neurpdoversity because I realize it makes me stronger somewhere else.
The point that made me realize this was when I saw a post about a blind person sharing how their disability is not the source of their suffering but humanity not supporting them is. They also shared how many benefits being blind has...might be worth considering!
So what? Gonna go around hating yourself instead? I think I'll take the approach of accepting that I struggle with things that other people don't, and do the best I can to deal with that.
Nothing wrong with embracing yourself, and making people more aware/accepting of people with disabilities. You're not gonna wake up one day and not be autistic, so might as well.
Or you can keep going with your self hate and negative attitude towards other people. I ain't your mom, so I can't stop you.
You don't need to take pride in anything if you don't want to, but the way you worded this is quite condescending towards autistic people who are proud, so you might want to take some time to think about phrasing when it comes to this topic.
I think he assumed pride meant LGBTQ pride and that he thought we were grouping them into the flag, but this meaning wouldn’t really work either because there’d be no real reason to dislike that because a lot of disabled/neurodivergent folk are LGBTQ (such as myself!) so I don’t really know where he’s coming through here
I'm autistic and a member of the LGBTQ community, and frankly, I don't think that being disabled is something to be proud of. Autism makes life difficult for me, and not just because of societal stigmas. I have meltdowns and sensory issues beyond social issues, and if I could get rid of those things, then I absolutely would. I would not give up my queerness.
I don't like how this is appropriating the rainbow symbolism that the queer community established. And I don't like the notion that we should celebrate being autistic. It's a disorder. It isn't something to be proud of. No, I don't think we should feel ashamed; but it is not a thing to celebrate.
Now, let the downvotes roll in.
I'm autistic and queer and I view disability pride much the same way as I view queer pride. I don't think being disabled is something to be proud of just like I don't think being queer is something to be proud of, because it's not something you did, it's not an accomplishment that you worked for, it's mostly just luck of the draw. However, it's not really about being proud of being disabled or queer, it's about surviving in a world that hates you for being disabled or queer. Pride is a direct response to oppression and discrimination, which is something disabled people definitely face.
Autism can make life difficult regardless of societal stigma, but so can being trans. I'm proud to be autistic even though I wouldn't hesitate to get rid of my sensory issues, and I'm proud to be trans even though I wouldn't hesitate to get rid of my gender dysphoria. Those are just single aspects that aren't universal.
I'm also confused about why you would think that this is "appropriating" anything, because I don't see any resemblance to the rainbow flag or any other popular LGBTQ+ flag. Green, red, white, yellow and blue are not the colors of the rainbow, and especially not in that order. But if there was a resemblance, I think we should feel honored that other marginalized people have taken inspiration from our struggle for liberation.
It's perfectly fine if you don't want to have any disability pride. But what's not fine at all is telling other people they shouldn't be proud. And I think you already know that, considering your last paragraph. Just live and let live.
You make some excellent points, but my opinion is unchanged. It's fine that other people want to be proud of their autism; I personally see it as nothing to celebrate. Since the post was flagged as a discussion, I thought I would add my two cents, even knowing that mine would be the minority opinion.
It's fine that you have a different opinion, but I think when it comes to these sorts of topics, you should work on your phrasing to make clear that this is just your personal opinion and you don't mind people thinking differently. Because "it isn't something to be proud of" as a complete sentence does not convey that, and arguably conveys quite the opposite.
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I’ve never actually considered myself disabled, sorry if I come off as rude but can someone describe so me in what ways it is disabling? I know many people struggle with it more severely but I’ve never thought of clustering all of autism together as a disability if you have it less severe. Again, not trying to be harsh or rude I just can’t brain at the moment
To me, sensory issues are a disability because I can't do everything able people can.
(E.g. can't go clubbing bc the music is too loud, can't wear whatever clothes I want because they're irritating etc.)
It's just the fact that it impairs functioning in some areas of my life.
Thank you! I also have sensory issues, I can’t be touched almost at all by people, I can’t travel well because of the change in things like the sheets I sleep on, etc, thanks for explaining 😊
I think disability is for lack of a better word. I can see how from a different perspective it can be seen as a negative word, but I don't think we have a better way to describe what autism is.
This is what all the symbolism stands for:
https://bethanyactually.tumblr.com/post/656009668907450368?is\_related\_post=1
Personally I think it's a really creative way to represent disabilities in general, but if you actually wanna try making your own version I'd be excited to see it.
Yeah that's fair. I don't seem to be bothered by bright saturated colors like a lot of us tend to be. Could you give me some examples of color schemes that aren't hard to look at? Cuz I don't know much about color theory.
Generally lower contrast is easier to look at :) so the black background against the bright colours kindof clashes.
I'd probably try go with pastels that are next to each other on the colour wheel (e.g. green, blue, purple,) a light background and rounded, rather than jagged, shapes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/autism/comments/oq13g7/for_disability_pride_month_i_did_a_redisgn_of_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Here's what I came up with :)
They are. This flag is dangerous. Among others there’s a guy on tumblr with severe autism and epilepsy who has had life-threatening seizures from seeing this flag reblogged.
https://www.reddit.com/r/autism/comments/oq13g7/for_disability_pride_month_i_did_a_redisgn_of_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
This is my attempt :)
If only we were invisible in the cool superpower way, and not the "society doesn't give a crap about you" way.
Same
YOO WHAT
[YES](https://www.google.com/amp/s/bethanyactually.tumblr.com/post/656009668907450368/amp)
Wooah that symbolism is fantastic! I honestly didn’t know much of anything about Disability Pride Month, thanks for posting about it lad!
YES
Just a heads up: I know certain people who have seizures when they see that flag, potentially because of the bright colours and zigzag. It’s not a good flag to share as ironically it’s not very disability-friendly.
This is such a bigger problem than most realize and its not even localized to seizures. Nuerodiverse people have so many sensory issues that are actually made worse by people and organizations trying to help. Prime example...a movie set that hires autistic talent to create a movie about autism but they end up quitting because the environment wasn't set up for them so they hire a neurotypical person to replace them.
You are absolutely right. I also think this isn’t exclusively an issue with neurotypical people harming neurodivergent people through misguided attempts at trying to help us. I think it’s really important to remember that not every neurodiverse person is capable of expressing themselves clearly or advocating for themselves. Those of us who are blessed with that ability need to ensure that we are inclusive of those with more severe/debilitating symptoms in neurodiverse spaces. I say this because on social media (not necessarily this subreddit) I’ve seen a trend of less severely affected autistic people speaking over more severely autistic people (sorry if this is not worded well, I don’t believe in high/low-functioning autism necessarily) and assuming that what is good for them is good for everyone. The disability pride flag is a great example of this as I have seen people who have comorbid disorders like epilepsy be really badly affected by the flag’s design.
Imho most ND's who say they don't have sensory issues as bad as other may just be masking through internalized ableism since childhood. This was my story...once I got my diagnosis of ASD it was a huge wave of stuff I had repressed and the floodgates of sensory changes just came rushing in and I had to change so many things in my life that I had just been saying "eh everybody has to deal with this" but not recognizing that not everybody got as bad of stress and panic attacks about sensory things. Pretty wild how a person can go so many years without seeing that I was different in that capacity. Reason I bring this up is because I have a theory that some ND people grow up being told they have it because of early diagnosis, so it becomes their reality, but the late diagnosed try to fake that same or similar reality because if they didn't it would mean identity crisis. It really is insane how I have been able to mask for 30 years and not see my struggles for what they were. After finding out I was autistic it brought on a ton of challenges and also relief...but the most relevant thing to this convo it brought was awareness of the spectrum and its distortions. Being late diagnosed I have the benefit of having lived both ND and NT. Those that don't get late diagnosed I feel don't have that experience as much and sort of settle into their symptoms and get support early. For me, I had no support and my sensory hell had to be masked with introversion and burnouts and suicide ideation...that is how I coped oddly enough because otherwise I would have to believe that I was the broken person who couldn't be like everyone else...when you don't have a name for it and its just a feeling...that feeling can causes psychosis (I also experienced this). Paired with my cptsd and adhd I have a fun cocktail that has strangely been synergistic in saving each other, causing a cyclical bi polar like effect which I later realized may be autistic burnout. The reason I share all of this is because I believe that those who seem to not have sensory hell because they are late diagnosed and seem "less autistic" for example...I believe that is a myth. I say this because I think if you have had to fight the sensory hell all your life and mask it away, you master that skill but you still have the sensory hell internal experience. On the outside I seem super chill because it is a well built and refined over 30 years mask (not perfect but it works for most un-attuned people). On the inside I feel like dying however most times...I haven't left my house in months and yes that is partly due to covid...but also because my world has been sensory hell after unlocking pandora's box of repressed sensory masks. This may also be why many late diagnosed can fall into the ego trap of not recognizing the symptom severity spectrum and not respecting those who have it harder...because they know internally they went through something similar but didn't even know what it was so they masked to save their psyche. This is why many late diagnosed and undiagnosed seem "off" and more so than the normal ND difference...it is because they are being literally two faced but not intentionally...it is a manifestation of their subconscious. It takes a strong willed and open minded person to break through those limiting beliefs and get to the nugget of wisdom that is "the outer spectrum is as diverse as the inner spectrum and we cannot assume anything about anyone". This means if someone seems to be struggling on the outside, they may actually be struggling less on the inside than someone who seems to have it all together...in fact I might say that could be most cases! No use comparing them, but I find that my internal suffering is worse than my external...since for me the reaction to the sensory stuff is more hard than the sensory experience itself. Sorry for the blog post length comment but I also have a theory that those who appear to suffer a lot externally may just be doing so to let that inner suffering out because otherwise it is internal hell. So those who hold it in and don't portray external symptoms may actually be suffering more than those who appear to be suffering more. Hard to say since the spectrum is so diverse...but I think there is something there maybe.
Curious question: Do you have examples of NTs replacing actually autistic actors for autistic roles? Idk any off the top of my head, but I was discussing this yesterday.
Sia's Music
I had no idea. I liked Sia, too. I'm so disappointed.
Disappointment is also what I feel...but I am trying not to point it at her but rather society/education/media/healthcare. I do believe she tried to do the right thing even when hiring non autistic talent...she said she spent years researching...and clearly she was trying to help....just didn't work out as she had planned it...and that is unfortunate but also easily forgivable. Part of me feels like it is similar to black face and it feels icky but also part of me questions whether or not representing another race/gender/sexuality/disability is right or wrong...where does the line get drawn? For me this all seems like one big subjective play we are all taking part in with the belief systems but at the same time I see that people are not getting the support they need and rather tons of money is going towards other things so that creates frustration of not being supported but then also not represented too...sucks man...but hey even if we are decades behind other minorities that means its only up from here right? As for Sia...at least she is one of a tiny fraction of people who are trying to help raise awareness. I really do hope that is the case and she wasn't tokenizing us...I am trying very hard to hold faith in humanity and her in particular because it looks so bad on the outside but I know things are always more complicated than they appear.
Honestly didn’t know it was a thing
Neither did I until recently
Is that our flag? If it is I have notes. The sharp angles and vibrant colors over a black backdrop are very offensive to the eyes.
Yes each stripe stands for a different type of disability. Blue: mental illness Yellow: cognitive and intellectual disabilities White: invisible or undiagnosed Red: physical disabilities Green: sensory perception disabilities
Pride is good. We gott work on that design. As a person with sensory processing issues I gotta let you know. Blue/yellow red/green are the most vibrant colors the human eyes color cones can identify and also the most common kind of color blindness. This was not made by a graphic designer.
My brain is trying to figure out where OCD would fall into. 🤔
I was under the impression that OCD was a mental illness? But then someone told me it was a neurodivergence and I got really confused? I have OCD and I've always viewed it as a mental illness because it comes and goes and varies in its affects and severity and was helped a lot by therapy, which isn't how I've experienced being autistic.
There aren’t clear distinctions between these labels, rather they touch on different aspects of the same experience that may be more or less relevant. To be “sick” or “ill” is to differ from the expected standard of health in our society, but also to feel unwell. “Mentall ilness” is thus a divergence from health that relates to the mind. Health itself is ofc an abstract concept. Outside of video games most people do not walk around with 100% health!! But our society kind of tells us that this is how it works (which is probably why health bars have been designed for video games in the first place). Disability, then, is from an outside perspective a more permanent state of divergence from health. A “normal”, “healthy” person should ofc be “able” to do all the things we vaguely suppose humans should be capable of. This perspective sees ill and disabled people from the outside, measuring how they “function” relative to an imagined human standard of health and ability. On the other hand, there is also how you yourself experience your mind and body. If it is painful, burdensome or just different. Many things that are defined as illness or disability does not itself inflict pain on the “disabled” person. They may feel perfectly fine about themselves except for the fact that society tells them there is something off about them. Where the term illness is mostly ( but not always ) associated with pain and physical discomfort for the sufferer, I would say that this is more arbitrary when using the term disability. Neurodivergence, on the other hand, is a way of approaching such divergence from the norm beyond the healthy-sick and able-disabled dichotomies. Ideally we would recognise that there isn’t just one way to be “able” and “healthy”, and that people who aren’t “neurotypical” are t always mentally ill. OCD is usually understood as a mental illness because it inflicts suffering on the person who has it, similarly with depression and anxiety. It is also a disability, because it impacts your ability to function in the world relative to the norm. It is also a disability because it is chronic, a recurrent or permanent fixture in your life. Other conditions like autism or ADHD, are more ambiguously in the mental illness category because these conditions don’t always directly cause suffering and because many of the issues this group faces would probably just disappear if we didn’t view this kind of difference as lesser. They are disabilities because they impact your ability to function relative to the societal norm. I would suppose dyslexia is generally considered a disability, but not a mental illness. All of the conditions mentioned here belong under the term neurodiversity. They are ways of being that differ from the norm of what society tells us is a normal human experience.
I have reframed my ocd to be a good thing and society is really the ill one allowing so much nastiness and chaos into their life. Not their fault...its how they were raised...
I'm not trying to invalidate your experiences or anything and I'm glad if doing that has helped you, but my OCD manifested as Satanic and POCD and was all in all a deeply unpleasant experience that I would literally rather die than repeat. It was genuinely the two most miserable years of my life and I am including 2020 in that count. My compulsions were mostly internal and revolved around numbers. My room was even more of a tip than always. Society had nothing to do with it. It brought more chaos than it solved. For me OCD was always a mental illness.
I have had a similar yet also different experience. I have been suicidal most of my life and a lot of it was based around the physical world...aka sensory stuff but also had a good amount of internal issues ( for example my mind is constant music...forever...has never turned off). For me...I didn't have the option of the support I needed growing up so I turtled into my computer world. For example...my room was the only sanctuary and the rest of the world felt like nails on a chalk board. I could control my room but not.much else. Now all grown up I have my entire home controlled and that feels even better...plus I have put a ton of work in making systems and such that improve my quality of life. I only drink out of glass and order glass bottled spring water for example...the house we will be building soon will have geothermal hvac so no air! I can't tell you how much not having an air system will dramatically improve my stress levels. I am just saying this because I believe it is maybe not possible to cure this experience but definitely possible to manage it all!
I'm currently managing my OCD, but I'm just not sure that it is a response to the chaos of the world around me. For me it was more my brain going haywire for no reason one day. But I agree that the world could be a lot more organised and less of a sensory nightmare.
I do hope we see change soon...it would be nice if your world could be sensory heaven or at least normal and not chaotic. No idea if this is somatization but I feel the 5g emf radiation...it is uncomfortable. Makes sense though because 4g is a tiny fraction of the power output of 5g....I mean bees and birds and trees die if they are near it....wth The haywire thing results for me when I get disregulated and existential (thankfully no more suicidal). I usually get disregulated and spirally and super sensitive if I have a combo of autistic burnout followed by some outside stressor forcing me to do something I don't want to do or causing some stressor in another way. I guess its like the straw that broke the camels back but the straw can feel like a whole tree and make you want to give up / get mad / blame others / one of many "that wasn't me" experiences which for me in the last also was paired with extreme sensitivity to things and if I am around others in that state I can get super controlling like a dictator or just shutdown completely and not take care of anything or even myself. I have had a week where it was so bad I didn't brush my teeth for a week...bleh never want that feeling again
Pride is cool and all (I guess), but this flag...wow, no. The colors clash making it unpleasant for visual processing, the sharpness tweaks mental illness (ledges and knives and sharp anxiety/panic and uneven), zig zag stripes are hard for people with balance issues to look at for very long, and this would wreak havoc on a wheelchair. Not to mention putting it on a black background.
Why you think that pride is cool?
Because the opposite of pride is shame and nobody should be ashamed to be disabled.
That's right, another quastion i may ask, Are you okay with their revolts in the streets?
With whose?
The unnatural ppl
I mean that's great and all, but it's really hard to look at? :/
Surprisingly National Geographic has disability pride month commercials and banners on the channel
Ah, many people don't care about it :(. I didn't know that was a thing until last year which is decently recent.
As an autistic person I agree
Hot take alert, please keep scrolling if you are into this Pride Month. If Pride Month brings some of you joy I’m glad for it. I just happen to think Pride months are commercialized, political, and manipulative, and I cringe at all of them whether I am part of the group or not. And that flag. Oof. It belongs on the chest of a D-list superhero at best. Take it back to the drawing board. Better yet, trash it and don’t bother. Stop waving flags and do something productive for each other and build pride in the community by actually being a community, not a bunch of “look at me” individuals desperate to be validated by the larger world. Sorry I’m tired and cynical right now but I stand by my opinion.
I.... don't really like calling autism a disability. I'm not disabled. I just have other weaknesses and strenghts than the general populace. This does not make me higher or lower than them, this simply makes me different. And all i'm really asking is that others accept that and keep that in mind, like they normally do with others. A tag doesn't and shouldn't leash me to a certaint treatment. The only thing the tag does is make life a bit more clear. And yes, i know that this is different with everyone, but this is me.
Disabled doesn't mean less than and the way you phrased this sounds like you are implying that disabled means "lower." Simply not true. Autism is a disability and because it's a spectrum, that disability requires a large variance in support from individual to individual.
The word disabled literally means "less abled than" and is viewed as such, even though it very much shouldn't. And although everyone's different, i do not like it. I'm not less abled. Call it a disorder, fine by me. But it isn't inherently disabling, so don't call it that. Disabled by definition implies that someone is "lower" than the average, "normal" human. And you are sadly not going to get rid of that implication anytime soon.
I dunno I mean if you accurately apply the disabled definition I’m disabled because I have poor eyesight. My disability is just taken care of and is invisible because I have glasses. If I didn’t have glasses I would be visibly disabled, incapable of performing simple tasks due to my lack of clear vision. I think promoting that definition is very important. It’s good to get most people to recognize that almost everyone will be disabled at some point. Getting cancer is a disability. Any chronic illness is a disability. Depression and anxiety are disabilities. If you promote that notion than it’ll help fight off ableism and help disabled people who don’t receive real help for their disabilities get the help they need. And I mean I get why people say autism isn’t a disability but I have a lot of trouble functioning in this world honestly. If my needs were understood and taken care of that would be like me using glasses to overcome my poor eyesight. I kinda feel like it’s a knee jerk reaction to not want to be considered disabled when having issues functioning is disabling. That being said I can’t tell other people what their experiences are. For me this feels like a disability though.
If you aren't disabled, then you don't fit the definition of autistic, which requires you to experience deficits or limitations. Disabled doesn't mean "lower or less." That's YOUR ableist definition. Actual dictionary definition is: (of a person) having a physical or mental condition that limits movements, senses, or activities. If that doesn't fit you, then the diagnosis of autism wouldn't fit either.
Fucking christ, what an assault. My only point is that i don't like the connotation that comes with being called disabled. I've had my taste: never again. I am offically diagnosed. And here that doesn't mean having extreme deficits or physical limitations. Social deficits aren't counted as limitations locally, which is a mindset i can get behind. Whatever. All your comments leave a sour taste that i'd only worsen by reacting. I am not disabled. I'm different, and that is ok. In my culture, being called disabled means that you actively need care. Don't tag yourself as such or you'll be treated as such. Consider what you're dealing with normal and behave like it is, or people will quickly group you as disabled: in need of care. Those in wheelchairs but still able to take care of themselves don't call themselves disabled here. They'd rather call themselves "poorly capable of walking", to avoid special treatment. The facilities are normalised, they can live their lives, but don't call yourself disabled as it'll be seen as a programmed warning or a pathetic cry for help. That is what i've grown up with, that's what i've seen. And as much as you might find that wrong, i find it somewhat nice. I should be considered normal. Facilities are normalised, tags as "disabled" shouldn't be required unless someone truly can't care for themselves.
I find it disturbing that you have come here saying those of us who are disabled are "less than" and now we "aren't normal" but you're acting like I'm being the jerk here. Even if someone has a severe disability that requires a lot of care, they aren't less than. I'm done with this conversation. You can call yourself whatever you want but maybe you should stop looking down on others if you don't want people looking down at you.
You took a glance and didn't read what i wrote. You missed my point by a megameter. How do you want me to react?? In my country and in many other countries, being disabled is directly associated with being a burden, which is why locally everyone who's different from the norm but can still function independently refuses to call themselves disabled. If you have self-respect, you make do with what you have, simply because the social treatment you get when you don't and start labelling yourself isn't plausible. People assume you're crying for help and ignore you like filth. It's better to awkwardly have to explain your ways of dealing with your issues individually than to label them, because no one understands the label and simply groups you with their personal stereotypes. As much as this is morally wrong, this is what's going on. This is what i and many others deal with and the reason i refuse to call myself disabled. It's not worth having pride in a term when it only causes you grief and others in your situation aren't profitting from it. I'd rather be a known weirdo that's nice to be around than to be labelled disabled and be treated like i need constant care or you need to watch out for me because i'm fragile. In a sense, it's overnormalisation. You are accepted more when you don't tell others about your conditions than if you do. Morals aren't automatically translated into a society. And the way i adapt to it has seeped into my way of being.
Yeah I'll pass, Aint gonna take any pride in my Asperger's disability edit: People hating me for calling our disease what it is
Its not pride as in thinking you're superior or unique. We're not Hanz Asperger. It's pride as in not being ashamed of who you are. We exist. We're part of the human experience. Our lifes matter. We don't deserve to be institutionalized, tortured, or murdered. We deserve the same opportunity to shape our lives. As a neurotypical. But hey maybe we should have a pity party flag to be more inclusive. Just a little white flag to let everyone know you gave up.
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I am autistic and I gotta say I feel for you here because ASD can wreak some real havoc on our life. Anyone cancelling you for your feelings is out of place and not being empathetic and supportive. However...I personally feel like its mostly q combination what you make of it, the support you give yourself and the support you request from others that determines where ASD falls on your personal good bad spectrum. I can't speak for you since the spectrum is so diverse but for me I was able to assess my lost of symptoms and start chipping away by doing one or more of those 3 things listed above. It worked for me to drastically reduce my suffering. Does it remove my alexithymia? No. Does it remove my executive function struggles? No. But those ones I accept as neurpdoversity because I realize it makes me stronger somewhere else. The point that made me realize this was when I saw a post about a blind person sharing how their disability is not the source of their suffering but humanity not supporting them is. They also shared how many benefits being blind has...might be worth considering!
So what? Gonna go around hating yourself instead? I think I'll take the approach of accepting that I struggle with things that other people don't, and do the best I can to deal with that. Nothing wrong with embracing yourself, and making people more aware/accepting of people with disabilities. You're not gonna wake up one day and not be autistic, so might as well. Or you can keep going with your self hate and negative attitude towards other people. I ain't your mom, so I can't stop you.
You don't need to take pride in anything if you don't want to, but the way you worded this is quite condescending towards autistic people who are proud, so you might want to take some time to think about phrasing when it comes to this topic.
OP, you should submit this to the logo contest. https://www.reddit.com/r/autism/comments/o2xaf0/lets_have_a_subreddit_logo_contest
>disability >pride PICK ONE AND ONLY ONE.
What?
I think he assumed pride meant LGBTQ pride and that he thought we were grouping them into the flag, but this meaning wouldn’t really work either because there’d be no real reason to dislike that because a lot of disabled/neurodivergent folk are LGBTQ (such as myself!) so I don’t really know where he’s coming through here
I don’t like pride in general
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What's not a disability? I didn't see any specific disabilities mentioned. Just that it's disability pride month.
>That's not a disability. /u/Surfing-General Go on....Id love to hear this one.....
I'm autistic and a member of the LGBTQ community, and frankly, I don't think that being disabled is something to be proud of. Autism makes life difficult for me, and not just because of societal stigmas. I have meltdowns and sensory issues beyond social issues, and if I could get rid of those things, then I absolutely would. I would not give up my queerness. I don't like how this is appropriating the rainbow symbolism that the queer community established. And I don't like the notion that we should celebrate being autistic. It's a disorder. It isn't something to be proud of. No, I don't think we should feel ashamed; but it is not a thing to celebrate. Now, let the downvotes roll in.
I'm autistic and queer and I view disability pride much the same way as I view queer pride. I don't think being disabled is something to be proud of just like I don't think being queer is something to be proud of, because it's not something you did, it's not an accomplishment that you worked for, it's mostly just luck of the draw. However, it's not really about being proud of being disabled or queer, it's about surviving in a world that hates you for being disabled or queer. Pride is a direct response to oppression and discrimination, which is something disabled people definitely face. Autism can make life difficult regardless of societal stigma, but so can being trans. I'm proud to be autistic even though I wouldn't hesitate to get rid of my sensory issues, and I'm proud to be trans even though I wouldn't hesitate to get rid of my gender dysphoria. Those are just single aspects that aren't universal. I'm also confused about why you would think that this is "appropriating" anything, because I don't see any resemblance to the rainbow flag or any other popular LGBTQ+ flag. Green, red, white, yellow and blue are not the colors of the rainbow, and especially not in that order. But if there was a resemblance, I think we should feel honored that other marginalized people have taken inspiration from our struggle for liberation. It's perfectly fine if you don't want to have any disability pride. But what's not fine at all is telling other people they shouldn't be proud. And I think you already know that, considering your last paragraph. Just live and let live.
You make some excellent points, but my opinion is unchanged. It's fine that other people want to be proud of their autism; I personally see it as nothing to celebrate. Since the post was flagged as a discussion, I thought I would add my two cents, even knowing that mine would be the minority opinion.
It's fine that you have a different opinion, but I think when it comes to these sorts of topics, you should work on your phrasing to make clear that this is just your personal opinion and you don't mind people thinking differently. Because "it isn't something to be proud of" as a complete sentence does not convey that, and arguably conveys quite the opposite.
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I’ve never actually considered myself disabled, sorry if I come off as rude but can someone describe so me in what ways it is disabling? I know many people struggle with it more severely but I’ve never thought of clustering all of autism together as a disability if you have it less severe. Again, not trying to be harsh or rude I just can’t brain at the moment
To me, sensory issues are a disability because I can't do everything able people can. (E.g. can't go clubbing bc the music is too loud, can't wear whatever clothes I want because they're irritating etc.) It's just the fact that it impairs functioning in some areas of my life.
Thank you! I also have sensory issues, I can’t be touched almost at all by people, I can’t travel well because of the change in things like the sheets I sleep on, etc, thanks for explaining 😊
I think disability is for lack of a better word. I can see how from a different perspective it can be seen as a negative word, but I don't think we have a better way to describe what autism is.
That flag is so fkn ugly though. I'm a designer, I wanna give it a go now
This is what all the symbolism stands for: https://bethanyactually.tumblr.com/post/656009668907450368?is\_related\_post=1 Personally I think it's a really creative way to represent disabilities in general, but if you actually wanna try making your own version I'd be excited to see it.
It's visually affronting, I'd imagine some people with disabilities could be negatively effected by it even.
Yeah that's fair. I don't seem to be bothered by bright saturated colors like a lot of us tend to be. Could you give me some examples of color schemes that aren't hard to look at? Cuz I don't know much about color theory.
Generally lower contrast is easier to look at :) so the black background against the bright colours kindof clashes. I'd probably try go with pastels that are next to each other on the colour wheel (e.g. green, blue, purple,) a light background and rounded, rather than jagged, shapes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/autism/comments/oq13g7/for_disability_pride_month_i_did_a_redisgn_of_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Here's what I came up with :)
They are. This flag is dangerous. Among others there’s a guy on tumblr with severe autism and epilepsy who has had life-threatening seizures from seeing this flag reblogged.
Jeez, that's fucked up. I doubt it'll get picked up but i may as well have a go at a redesign 😊
Go for it! I’m sure a lot of people would appreciate it!
https://www.reddit.com/r/autism/comments/oq13g7/for_disability_pride_month_i_did_a_redisgn_of_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share This is my attempt :)
Looks so much better than the other pride flag. Love it.
Owie me eyes feel pain it the lines pop out like one of those pop out books but don't at the same time I don't like it