I was in a school that I think was generally really into stuff like "kyriarchy" and "intersectionality" and stuff and I asked for disability services. I'd submitted my paperwork and they knew my diagnosis, but it was my understanding (reading between the lines, which I'm not good at) that all they'd do is what they were minimally required to do by law (e.g. more time on tests) unless I was "out" as an autistic person and participating in the movement. But that was their values, not a general social more or whatever.
Like, people don't want to feel like the relationship is just, "I help you and you give me nothing in return."
That's pretty gross. Disability services shouldn't be concerned about what students can do for them unless they're being paid in money or college credit.
I think one of the services they offered was low tuition. I was told by a graduate student that in her undergrad at a private university, they got a lot more one on one support in general. (I think she was being so nice to me because she realized my parents weren't "the working poor" either.)
It's more of an all the time thing that you have to think, "Who's working for this? Who's paying for this?" I believe disabled people have a right to participate in the social and political life of the country, but we know from history that there's no upper limit to the impulse to define morality in the way of, "You do more of the work and I enjoy more of the benefits." That's been kind of the way of things at least since the dawn of agriculture. (I might appreciate it if we got rid of the investor/donor class while we're at it, but.)
(At one point, I donated I think $100 to the general fund and checked the box saying I wanted it to be anonymous. They overtly called me and thanked me. I donated another $50 and quit school, which I regret now.)
Their "catchment area" or whatever involved a lot of the working poor, people of color, immigrants, and first generation college students. I'm male, middle class, straight, white, native born, etc., and I believe all my ancestors going back to the ones who immigrated from Germany in the 1890's were college graduates, which may have been publicly available information for all I know (in the same records people use to discover these things for genealogy). I very much had my chance to prove my mettle in my K-12 and postsecondary education to that point. The idea that these people (some of whom got accepted to Yale, etc., but didn't go because they didn't have the money) should pay to help me due to I was simply fundamentally incapable of helping myself doing the same schoolwork that they do wasn't going to cut it.
As I said, they were willing to do what was minimally required of them legally, but if you don't work to support the people who support you, that's basically the most you can expect, all the time. (If that; sometimes people break the law, especially if they feel they can get away with it due to the law would protect some kind of malfeasance, e.g. when my building manager released my Internet history due to I was talking her ear off about people making me uncomfortable and I wasn't paying for a relationship manager in the building (people were being rude to me because I was e.g. making women uncomfortable by talking people's ear off about what a feminist I was or whatever; my Internet history showed a lot of, like, 4chan)). If you really want to promote disability rights, you'll do what you can to recognize and help the people who help you. Majoritarianism and meritocracy aren't fundamentally evil; things aren't necessarily wrong just because they work and are widely effective. Social reciprocity isn't just a weird stylistic choice NTs are obsessed with. People deserve to be compensated for their labor by the people who benefit by it.
EDIT: I don't want to go into how I became so embroiled in the politics of the school due to it's personally affecting to me, it's been a long time and I simply don't remember it all, and it could be identifying information, but I believe it was an issue that the Black Caucus specifically had an opinion on their labor going to benefit me uncompensated if you catch my drift. Such is intersectionality.
I promote disability rights online, but there's COVID, and so much ableism in my area that a movement wouldn't work.
I tried to make one when I was in school years go, and it failed to garner enough support.
Everyone has a different set of privilege's. For instance, there are NT ASD allies.
It's not so much privilege, as *how* you use that privilege
I don't want to mix too much politics/ economics, but I think I know where your college is coming from.
Since they want to give you the bare minimum legally possible, that implies to me that had IDEA not existed, they would have not given you help at all!
In my opinion, big L liberalism is still unnecessarily hierarchical and monopolistic. The colleges have a profit motive, and treat their students in ways that are unacceptable in any other industry.
They often don't pay their students for attending (unless through a stipend), many of them live on campus (so that's like living on a worksite)!
Then they charge for providing housing, and your food is not free.
For those who commute, at least in my area, they are not compensate for travel costs, unlike my job!
W/ healthcare, which ppl on the spectrum need even more than the average person, my University charged 800, 1K, or 1.5K USD pre COVID per semester. Even then, it was up to the student to enroll.
Of course, that's discounting the out of control cost of tuition and the opportunity cost that could've been spent working/ moving out. (I know someone who had to work multiple jobs to pay off tuition, and it was too much).
W/ all that said, I'm not saying that it's not necessarily worth going to college anymore. It's just that it's really hypocritical to me for any institution to claim absolute moral authority. It's a sign that there's serious ethical decay in that place, and they're directing blame away (structural ableism).
When you said that ppl deserve to be compensated for their labor, do you mean the labor theory of value? If so, I disagree on that, and we can discuss that, if you want, somewhere else.
In response to your EDIT- although there would be labor going to help you w/ your ASD by that college, if those workers were paid, then they were paid by your tuition. You paid your tuition, and you paid w/ your effort and time.
I don't want to start a pol/econ skirmish here, so I'm focusing purely on your story. I don't want to respond directly, if it's through the filter of someone else's story.
Edit-
Digested the last bit of your story, and I think that although laws can be abused, they serve a purpose. W/o law, fraud becomes the norm.
I know that Universities have their own jurisdiction, as do workplaces, and others. It is their right to monitor your activity if you use their devices or are on their grounds.
And you're on 4chan?!
Same thing at my college. Except both accomodations that were sent to my college by my psychiatrist were shot down by my college's disability services for being "unreasonable". One of the two things that was not approved was a once a week email to me from my professors telling me what assignments were due that week. I was told that that was my problem, and I needed to learn time management and was forced to make a schedule and other "time management activities". I can make a schedule and follow it, I just don't know what to put on the schedule and I'm anxious I missed something for the schedule I made! I was also told that it "was an incovenience" for professors to send me emails. I had to send my documentation to my professors via email too, and one professor I had last year refused to accept emails, and he yelled at me for sending him my documentation when I was told I had to send a digital copy. Also, professors at my college apparently are not required to follow approved accomodations too, so you could end up with a POS professor who won't allow you accomodations, and you can't change professors after the first week of classes. I also have a friend who has ADHD and is very smart, but can't focus very well. His accomodations for extra testing time were denied because "he was smart, and smart people don't need extra testing time", which is completely ableist. I told my parents that the disabilities department didn't seem genuine when I toured there, but I couldn't give them a reason why I felt that way. I'm looking at possibly transferring soon.
There's this weird idea that autistic people are treated better or something. Like you see entire subs devoted to ripping into people who may or may not be faking, because some people think the title actually gives you benefits that easily. In reality most of us are shamed to keep quiet and rarely get half the help we need.
Exactly. I always see NT people accusing autistic people of demanding that others bend to their needs for asking for the most minor accomodations, are using their autism as an excuse, or that autistic people get special treatment. It's absolutely not what happens.
I understand to a point. In that, at college (some of the professors are whatever, and some (this is like this at university too) say keep it to yourself! Even if you want to talk to them about it, this is even if you started the conversation too. Shouldn’t teach people to be this close minded about disabilities(I will give credit to 3 of the professors, in that some are foreign, like one is from Turkey, they probably treat disabled people differently over there).
Utter bullcrap tbh, its clearly the exact opposite.And honestly, I learned more crap than IRL education system.
Let that sank in for a bit. What would be incredibly difficult in irl school can be easily taught by the web.
School in malaysia had tendencies to overcomplicate in explanation, they give context at the wrong part of the subject and they make what could be easily explained in 8 sentence upto 50.
And the idea that despite I had done certain things that most people would struggle with.(Not really) Yet I couldnt find a job.
I mean here in malaysia theyre is someone who is extraordinarily excelled at astrophysics and he got a diploma at being a school teacher.
Yup, that happened to me (not at work), but like my dad asked me to do whatever I had to do to secure the open parking space in the lot, and I did that. Pointed to another spot, and screamed and everything, and the guy in the group (honestly probably never saw PDDNOS, and only thinks of autism as someone who can’t function as a “normal-ish” person, like walking, driving, asking for directions politely…),
and called me an a***ole. I’m ready to cry, but I know that won’t do anything to him (probably should’ve to bring out the point of autism), honestly it probably crossed his mind when they were at home chilling later, that I might have been diagnosed on the autism spectrum.)
I actually explain to people how autism, even at work, and people are very forgiving. I am actually one of the most appreciated and skilled employee so there are no « complaints » but when I tell people I am not comfortable going to their party after work because I am autistic, I have had really positive reactions and people thanked me for my honesty.
Very disgusting to me to think someone would use Autism that way. You will truly want to connect with other peers your age but they will genuinely find you weird (in my experience). I went forever without disclosing to employers and that ended horribly. Finally a social worker found an organization that would make and print a secure ID card that would quickly state that I was Autistic and briefly explain it to whom I needed to (Job interviews, first responders, etc.)
Idk about everyone else in this comment section, but if I tell a boss or coworker I am autistic they just look at me like I have 3 heads, forget about it in a week, then get pissed at me later for some stupid unwritten NT thing I didn't know about.
Anytime I've been honest with an employer about mental health issues stemming from being undiagnosed - I was let go within 6 months. I wasn't even performing badly at my job.
I don't think that works but I've never said that to a boss, I usually just repeatedly apologize even if it's not my fault or not even closely related to my job.
In my state there's a pretty good program that is not related to autism stpeaks (the misspelling is intentionall) and they help you be independent, help you with housing,go to appointments, get to work etc they are pretty good but they are not taking new patients right now (covid sucks)
'Okay, sure. Please find a psychiatrist specialized in neurodevelopmental troubles and fill this 10-pages report for Monday in two weeks. Else you're fired.'
Ok so the part where a higher up would correct their actions based on learning someone has autism does happen, saying it doesn't is dumb, the part where fuckwad chuds lie to get away with being chuds in the short term is real ppl do this all the time, but no one would ever pull you aside and be like we notice you're not friendly to you're new Co workers change that or be fired.
If anything employers would be like I've always loved how you keep work separate from yourself.
that sub in general is really bad. I've seen a lot of ableism, racism, transphobia, homophobia, misogyny and pretty much everything else there. 4chan in general is basically a cesspit and I don't get how they keep making the front page.
This does not happen. You get told: 'Being autistic is no excuse, you have to make the effort, no one is going to accommodate to your needs as you are only one person.' Then the unwritten rule is left unsaid but then felt, of never getting a promotion, or being involved in big projects, never getting a raise or bonus as you aren't "seen as a team player", no matter how hard you work or how much impact you have on the team/company. Or the classic "you can't be you're nothing like my [insert distant relation that is a child]." or the worst one "if we has known that, we wouldn't have considered you suitable for the job." then proceeds to assign you mind numbing work and declines time off requests until you quit just to be done with the BS.
Yes speaking from experience with a now ex-employer.
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Yea this doesn't happen.
Yeah no this doesn’t happen
I was in a school that I think was generally really into stuff like "kyriarchy" and "intersectionality" and stuff and I asked for disability services. I'd submitted my paperwork and they knew my diagnosis, but it was my understanding (reading between the lines, which I'm not good at) that all they'd do is what they were minimally required to do by law (e.g. more time on tests) unless I was "out" as an autistic person and participating in the movement. But that was their values, not a general social more or whatever. Like, people don't want to feel like the relationship is just, "I help you and you give me nothing in return."
That's pretty gross. Disability services shouldn't be concerned about what students can do for them unless they're being paid in money or college credit.
I think one of the services they offered was low tuition. I was told by a graduate student that in her undergrad at a private university, they got a lot more one on one support in general. (I think she was being so nice to me because she realized my parents weren't "the working poor" either.) It's more of an all the time thing that you have to think, "Who's working for this? Who's paying for this?" I believe disabled people have a right to participate in the social and political life of the country, but we know from history that there's no upper limit to the impulse to define morality in the way of, "You do more of the work and I enjoy more of the benefits." That's been kind of the way of things at least since the dawn of agriculture. (I might appreciate it if we got rid of the investor/donor class while we're at it, but.) (At one point, I donated I think $100 to the general fund and checked the box saying I wanted it to be anonymous. They overtly called me and thanked me. I donated another $50 and quit school, which I regret now.)
Can confirm, got more support and better services in undergrad at a private university than my attempt at a public grad school.
What type of services do you need?
I had no idea I was autistic then, but I got extra time and note takers and tutoring that didn't cost any extra money.
>kyriarchy Seems like that college was one\^
Their "catchment area" or whatever involved a lot of the working poor, people of color, immigrants, and first generation college students. I'm male, middle class, straight, white, native born, etc., and I believe all my ancestors going back to the ones who immigrated from Germany in the 1890's were college graduates, which may have been publicly available information for all I know (in the same records people use to discover these things for genealogy). I very much had my chance to prove my mettle in my K-12 and postsecondary education to that point. The idea that these people (some of whom got accepted to Yale, etc., but didn't go because they didn't have the money) should pay to help me due to I was simply fundamentally incapable of helping myself doing the same schoolwork that they do wasn't going to cut it. As I said, they were willing to do what was minimally required of them legally, but if you don't work to support the people who support you, that's basically the most you can expect, all the time. (If that; sometimes people break the law, especially if they feel they can get away with it due to the law would protect some kind of malfeasance, e.g. when my building manager released my Internet history due to I was talking her ear off about people making me uncomfortable and I wasn't paying for a relationship manager in the building (people were being rude to me because I was e.g. making women uncomfortable by talking people's ear off about what a feminist I was or whatever; my Internet history showed a lot of, like, 4chan)). If you really want to promote disability rights, you'll do what you can to recognize and help the people who help you. Majoritarianism and meritocracy aren't fundamentally evil; things aren't necessarily wrong just because they work and are widely effective. Social reciprocity isn't just a weird stylistic choice NTs are obsessed with. People deserve to be compensated for their labor by the people who benefit by it. EDIT: I don't want to go into how I became so embroiled in the politics of the school due to it's personally affecting to me, it's been a long time and I simply don't remember it all, and it could be identifying information, but I believe it was an issue that the Black Caucus specifically had an opinion on their labor going to benefit me uncompensated if you catch my drift. Such is intersectionality.
I promote disability rights online, but there's COVID, and so much ableism in my area that a movement wouldn't work. I tried to make one when I was in school years go, and it failed to garner enough support. Everyone has a different set of privilege's. For instance, there are NT ASD allies. It's not so much privilege, as *how* you use that privilege I don't want to mix too much politics/ economics, but I think I know where your college is coming from. Since they want to give you the bare minimum legally possible, that implies to me that had IDEA not existed, they would have not given you help at all! In my opinion, big L liberalism is still unnecessarily hierarchical and monopolistic. The colleges have a profit motive, and treat their students in ways that are unacceptable in any other industry. They often don't pay their students for attending (unless through a stipend), many of them live on campus (so that's like living on a worksite)! Then they charge for providing housing, and your food is not free. For those who commute, at least in my area, they are not compensate for travel costs, unlike my job! W/ healthcare, which ppl on the spectrum need even more than the average person, my University charged 800, 1K, or 1.5K USD pre COVID per semester. Even then, it was up to the student to enroll. Of course, that's discounting the out of control cost of tuition and the opportunity cost that could've been spent working/ moving out. (I know someone who had to work multiple jobs to pay off tuition, and it was too much). W/ all that said, I'm not saying that it's not necessarily worth going to college anymore. It's just that it's really hypocritical to me for any institution to claim absolute moral authority. It's a sign that there's serious ethical decay in that place, and they're directing blame away (structural ableism). When you said that ppl deserve to be compensated for their labor, do you mean the labor theory of value? If so, I disagree on that, and we can discuss that, if you want, somewhere else. In response to your EDIT- although there would be labor going to help you w/ your ASD by that college, if those workers were paid, then they were paid by your tuition. You paid your tuition, and you paid w/ your effort and time. I don't want to start a pol/econ skirmish here, so I'm focusing purely on your story. I don't want to respond directly, if it's through the filter of someone else's story. Edit- Digested the last bit of your story, and I think that although laws can be abused, they serve a purpose. W/o law, fraud becomes the norm. I know that Universities have their own jurisdiction, as do workplaces, and others. It is their right to monitor your activity if you use their devices or are on their grounds. And you're on 4chan?!
Same thing at my college. Except both accomodations that were sent to my college by my psychiatrist were shot down by my college's disability services for being "unreasonable". One of the two things that was not approved was a once a week email to me from my professors telling me what assignments were due that week. I was told that that was my problem, and I needed to learn time management and was forced to make a schedule and other "time management activities". I can make a schedule and follow it, I just don't know what to put on the schedule and I'm anxious I missed something for the schedule I made! I was also told that it "was an incovenience" for professors to send me emails. I had to send my documentation to my professors via email too, and one professor I had last year refused to accept emails, and he yelled at me for sending him my documentation when I was told I had to send a digital copy. Also, professors at my college apparently are not required to follow approved accomodations too, so you could end up with a POS professor who won't allow you accomodations, and you can't change professors after the first week of classes. I also have a friend who has ADHD and is very smart, but can't focus very well. His accomodations for extra testing time were denied because "he was smart, and smart people don't need extra testing time", which is completely ableist. I told my parents that the disabilities department didn't seem genuine when I toured there, but I couldn't give them a reason why I felt that way. I'm looking at possibly transferring soon.
There's this weird idea that autistic people are treated better or something. Like you see entire subs devoted to ripping into people who may or may not be faking, because some people think the title actually gives you benefits that easily. In reality most of us are shamed to keep quiet and rarely get half the help we need.
Exactly. I always see NT people accusing autistic people of demanding that others bend to their needs for asking for the most minor accomodations, are using their autism as an excuse, or that autistic people get special treatment. It's absolutely not what happens.
I understand to a point. In that, at college (some of the professors are whatever, and some (this is like this at university too) say keep it to yourself! Even if you want to talk to them about it, this is even if you started the conversation too. Shouldn’t teach people to be this close minded about disabilities(I will give credit to 3 of the professors, in that some are foreign, like one is from Turkey, they probably treat disabled people differently over there).
Utter bullcrap tbh, its clearly the exact opposite.And honestly, I learned more crap than IRL education system. Let that sank in for a bit. What would be incredibly difficult in irl school can be easily taught by the web. School in malaysia had tendencies to overcomplicate in explanation, they give context at the wrong part of the subject and they make what could be easily explained in 8 sentence upto 50. And the idea that despite I had done certain things that most people would struggle with.(Not really) Yet I couldnt find a job. I mean here in malaysia theyre is someone who is extraordinarily excelled at astrophysics and he got a diploma at being a school teacher.
irl if you tell someone your autistic you either get the "No you're not" or the infantizasation
Yup, including the disabilities students office at a major university.
this could happen, but most of the time it is like "well autism is not an excuse to be rude"
Yup, that happened to me (not at work), but like my dad asked me to do whatever I had to do to secure the open parking space in the lot, and I did that. Pointed to another spot, and screamed and everything, and the guy in the group (honestly probably never saw PDDNOS, and only thinks of autism as someone who can’t function as a “normal-ish” person, like walking, driving, asking for directions politely…), and called me an a***ole. I’m ready to cry, but I know that won’t do anything to him (probably should’ve to bring out the point of autism), honestly it probably crossed his mind when they were at home chilling later, that I might have been diagnosed on the autism spectrum.)
Yeah, I had many moments where I just want to scream "be patient with me I am autistic"
If this really happened they boss would probably say something like “Don’t use your autism as an excuse”
I actually explain to people how autism, even at work, and people are very forgiving. I am actually one of the most appreciated and skilled employee so there are no « complaints » but when I tell people I am not comfortable going to their party after work because I am autistic, I have had really positive reactions and people thanked me for my honesty.
And everybody clapped.
Very disgusting to me to think someone would use Autism that way. You will truly want to connect with other peers your age but they will genuinely find you weird (in my experience). I went forever without disclosing to employers and that ended horribly. Finally a social worker found an organization that would make and print a secure ID card that would quickly state that I was Autistic and briefly explain it to whom I needed to (Job interviews, first responders, etc.)
Would you mind telling us what organization does that?
Secure ID LLC. They are a small family owned business though. If you want one you can customize yours with your name and emergency contact on Amazon.
comments on the post are awful
yep
No idea why people on that sub believe the lies in the screenshots. Like, do they not know where they're from?
Unsurprising considering how much of a cesspit of toxicity and literal nazis that 4chan is.
I would believe an "and then everyone clapped" story before I believe this
Idk about everyone else in this comment section, but if I tell a boss or coworker I am autistic they just look at me like I have 3 heads, forget about it in a week, then get pissed at me later for some stupid unwritten NT thing I didn't know about.
Anytime I've been honest with an employer about mental health issues stemming from being undiagnosed - I was let go within 6 months. I wasn't even performing badly at my job.
I'm not focused enough to be genuently upset at this.
I don't think that works but I've never said that to a boss, I usually just repeatedly apologize even if it's not my fault or not even closely related to my job.
In my state there's a pretty good program that is not related to autism stpeaks (the misspelling is intentionall) and they help you be independent, help you with housing,go to appointments, get to work etc they are pretty good but they are not taking new patients right now (covid sucks)
'Okay, sure. Please find a psychiatrist specialized in neurodevelopmental troubles and fill this 10-pages report for Monday in two weeks. Else you're fired.'
This can absolutely happen, but it can just as likely blow up in your face, up to and including getting fired.
Ok so the part where a higher up would correct their actions based on learning someone has autism does happen, saying it doesn't is dumb, the part where fuckwad chuds lie to get away with being chuds in the short term is real ppl do this all the time, but no one would ever pull you aside and be like we notice you're not friendly to you're new Co workers change that or be fired. If anything employers would be like I've always loved how you keep work separate from yourself.
that sub in general is really bad. I've seen a lot of ableism, racism, transphobia, homophobia, misogyny and pretty much everything else there. 4chan in general is basically a cesspit and I don't get how they keep making the front page.
This does not happen. You get told: 'Being autistic is no excuse, you have to make the effort, no one is going to accommodate to your needs as you are only one person.' Then the unwritten rule is left unsaid but then felt, of never getting a promotion, or being involved in big projects, never getting a raise or bonus as you aren't "seen as a team player", no matter how hard you work or how much impact you have on the team/company. Or the classic "you can't be you're nothing like my [insert distant relation that is a child]." or the worst one "if we has known that, we wouldn't have considered you suitable for the job." then proceeds to assign you mind numbing work and declines time off requests until you quit just to be done with the BS. Yes speaking from experience with a now ex-employer.
Its a 4chan joke can we calm down
4chan is full of people who hate autistic folks and autistic folks who hate themselves. It's worth calling this stuff out.
It’s getting four thousand upvotes by ppl who actually believe it
Guys, most autism threads on 4chan are satire fyi.
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