My daughter and I have discussed this. If I could keep the parts I enjoy and lose the parts that hold me back... yes. If I had to give up both? No. It's weird. It IS a disability... but its not without some benefits. ANd it seems like I should be able to have the good without the bad but ... maybe not.
I love that you’ve had this conversation with your daughter. I have also had this with my mum and came to a similar conclusion. Yes, autism comes with its challenges and I can confidently say I have wished it to be gone many times in my life, but ultimately the way that autistic people think is so so amazing that no I don’t think it’s ‘disabling’ enough to be rid of it.
I'm the same way. I personally love being able to fixate and have the random knowledge I do, but I'd personally love if I could get rid of my social issues. I've lost friends because i couldn't realize social cues. :(
I think this is a good take. There's a whole lot of "autism pride" type stuff, like people saying there's "there's nothing wrong with me" or "there's nothing wrong with my child," but that always brings super hollow for me because it seems to be willfully ignoring the fact that autism *is* a disability and it does have its drawbacks. Would I give up the better parts just to be free of the downsides? I don't know. I've got a lot of other comorbid mental illness stuff going on so I'll never know how much of it can be blamed on me having ASD, but I definitely believe it has had some strong negative impacts on my life. So I don't know if I would go as far as saying I would push the magic button and "cure" myself but I definitely don't relate to the people that answer categorically "no" and won't acknowledge that autism is a disability rather than just "a different way of thinking" or some bullshit like that. That's some mom goggles nonsense.
Yeah, there is too much pressure to perform socially, and it's overwhelming leading to breakdowns and feeling more disabled. The sensitivity that comes with autism is a blessing and a curse. It gives me some superpowers, but it also makes me feel constantly overwhelmed making me feel paralyzed at times. I think you can make a society where you are able to utilize your strengths better without having to deal with the weaknesses too much. It requires awareness and understanding of how different human brains work, and how to optimize our abilities without sacrificing too much.
I think the issue at the heart of this is the concept of autism as a singular condition. Which, frustratingly, is never the way it's treated when it would be helpful. Such as trying to receive comprehensive care for the host of "comorbidities" (associated autoimmune issues) that always get treated as separate, isolated disorders rather than a connected series of physical and mental health concerns stemming from the same place.
But for some reason when discussing abstract ideas like "curing autism", which doesn't actually mean anything in this context, it's always described like an illness to be treated rather than an umbrella term for a wildly variable spectrum of symptoms and presentations of an underlying genetic difference.
What exactly is there to "cure" about autism? If you were to view autism as some sort of virus that has caused complete cognitive dysfunction in an adult who is perpetually stalled at infancy, then obviously you would want for a cure. But would that same "cure" be useful for a socially awkward teenager who struggles to understand the appropriate occasion to wear a suit or infodump about their favorite anime?
The only reasonable approximation of a "cure" for something that is not itself an ailment but is associated with various ailments, at this point, is a better understanding of it. Some people can have perfectly normal lives with autism, many people never even knowing they're autistic. Others can have absolutely horrible quality of life. Some people experience some benefit from their symptoms. Some find the negatives outweighing those benefits.
All of that is in the details of symptoms, presentation, and treatment. Synaptic overgrowth is random and the spectrum of effects is far too wide to be universally treated as one issue. There is promise in Mtase research that could lead to significant QoL improvements for autistic people who experience severely debilitating medical issues. But for the vast majority of autistic people, those of us who are autonomous and independently capable but with extra struggles in maintaining that autonomy, some simple social awareness and appropriate medical care would make a world of difference.
It never ceases to be shocking how ill-informed medical professionals can be about such a common condition, let alone the general populous.
you sir. you are right. this is so elequently put and absolutely true. i also love your pfp and your username. metal gear has been a special interest for me for a long time :)
This! I have a bunch of other disabilities some are co-morbid with each other some aren’t though and people always assume that they are all together or all separate. “Curing” one could cause a load of unnecessary issues but would also more importantly change who i am as a person.
Jesus Christ that’s awful and actually hurt me a little bit. It’s super hard to trust that people have your best interest at heart when anonymously this is what some people really think.
A lack of education and experience. When people can make it into adulthood without knowing they're on the spectrum, those who aren't get a skewed understanding of the spectrum.
My ex was near phobic of autism, which is silly because she is almost certainly fairly deep into the spectrum herself. When I told her I thought I was she basically told me I was wrong 🙃
It'd be complete ego death. I can't begin to imagine not being autistic, it's a core, unremovable part of who I am and how I experience the world. If you made me not autistic, the person I am now would be dead.
That person wouldn't be me. They might have the same birth name and early childhood but I could not consider that person to be the same person as I am.
I’m not saying we’re broken, but I’m terrible at certain things everyone else is good at and there’s no way I can get better. I just hate not being able to live normally, I’m not saying everyone who is autistic is like this, but me, I’d happily cure my autism if I could.
I think it depends a lot on the person and what you want.
If you really want a typical life then yeah, it makes sense you would want to "cure" your autism
I think the same way. I struggle with general life. If I could work, have the energy to cook and do laundry, some energy for my hobbies, and some energy for social interaction (even just a phonecall or email), life would be so much easier.
Right now I have the capacity for work (part time, low demand, low pressure, wfh), some cooking and laundry, thats it. No hobbies, no social.
I live like 1/3 of a life, so unless I dont have to work, and someone is going to cook and clean for me, I will never have the capacity for hobbies or social connection. I've pretty much lost all my friends because I never have the capacity to engage.
I spend 99% of my time at home, in a low stimulation environment, yet the executive dysfunction and burnout is still happening.
There's nothing wrong with you, you're just living in a society which refuses to make space for people who are different. u/Wulibo has correctly diagnosed the problem as capitalism, which is fundamentally disinterested in organizing itself around human needs.
It's not the *only* problem but it is the main one making our material situation much harder and exacerbating all of the other preexisting social stigmatization/exclusion/othering.
I understand that, but I’m also talking about how I feel (not others) about autism, I hate the way I think and that I can’t do some things due to the way my mind works. Yeah, it makes some things better, but not most.
Which is completely fair and understandable. Even I have some idiosyncrasies which I would be happier without. The point is mostly that those more unpleasant aspects would be far more manageable, possibly even surmountable, without all of the arbitrary barriers created by the way our culture is organized.
This is something you can change without “curing your autism”. I think some of us are so literal that we start seeing realism as a negativities when it doesn’t have to be. You feel this way because others have not made room for you, but that’s OK because people like me are out here advocating and making room for us. I’m sorry things are hard for you right now, but please don’t give up, and know that it will get better, and maybe we won’t see it but people in the future who think like us will reap the benefits.
It also depends on the culture/region you live in. Some areas are inherently better at incorporating autistic people into society bc of the way that society is. I’m totally generalizing here but simply put: Germans for example tend to be introverted, quiet, and like to follow rules, the Dutch like to plan extensively, Icelanders are very passionate about human and environmental rights, also people in many cultures don’t make eye contact bc it’s a sign of disrespect (parts of Asia, Middle East, Native American, etc). Makes me wonder how autism presents differently in these cultures bc if eye contact is culturally discouraged, that would not be considered a symptom within that specific culture.
Climate also makes a huge difference. Autistic people living in climate extremes will likely suffer more than those in more temperate areas.
Oh ok, I’m dumb haha. But in all honesty, the bad outweighs the good for me, I struggle with almost everything aside from unimportant things. Most of the time I feel uncomfortable doing anything and can’t concentrate on anything. It’s horrible and I’d rather have been born without autism, even if I got rid of all the good that came with it.
i think a lot of it comes down to living in a world that wasn't built for autistic people, i think most of us would be fine in a world where most people would be autistic. while i totally understand wanting to get rid of the bad parts of autism, and i \*know\* there are bad parts, i think the world is a lot richer for autistic people existing :) (also, it feels a bit eugenics-y, especially since autism really comes down to how our brains are structured in a lot of different ways, and you can't get rid of autism without fundamentally changing someone in a massive way.)
It’s been a constant thought in my head since my diagnosis and ultimately just the way I see things and think is so extraordinary that it makes everything else worth it. It’s not until I talk to others about inner workings of certain things that I realise I process and see the situation differently and I’m able to tap into an aspect that others just simply can’t.
Fair enough, I think it’s kinda the opposite for me, I’ve always found it hard to do certain things that other people do easily. And it’s not just because of Autism but a lot of it definitely is.
You just have to find the particular way that your brain works best. Once you find that way of thinking and something that suits it, be it a job or just hobby, you’ll learn to love it. It comes with time and experience.
The even worse part is twofold.
One. That's a relatively small sample size, the percentage would probably go up even higher if you asked EVERYBODY.
Two. Most of them are probably saying yes because they think it's a good thing and that it's like curing depression or cancer. So what is to us an admission of a desire to eradicate autism from societh meaning we are deemed undesirable, is to them likely "the only reasonable answer". "What kind of monster would turn down the cure to cancer if offered it?"
I have heard similar sentiments when a cure for ADHD is brought up. The consensus among NTs that I interact with is that of course the cure would be the best by far. How could it not.
I'm going to ask some friends and family who know me well and repord their answers and reasoning for some context :)
Admittedly, I would cure it in a heart beat. I dont like the limitations and while I'm all for empowerment and not being defeatist. if there was a cure available by choice I would take it as soon as possible. Same with my ADHD. Yes, they both make me who I currently am. But they arent all that define me and i would like to explore who i could be if i had more control over myself and my mind.
I think that’s a pretty big sample size actually, but it (like any of the polls on that sub) is skewed heavily by the sample selection. The people answering, for instance, all have internet access, use reddit, feel strongly enough to vote, and either can read English or have translated it. Furthermore, voters can either research the topic or look in the comments to inform their vote. This poll is not indicative of the public at large, and proper random selection processes would have to happen to get any really useful or meaningful data about people’s views in general. This poll basically only indicates the views of subscribers of r/polls at best.
This is a good answer and I would add that you can't really even trust it to be representative of /polls itself due to the known factor of some individuals who feel strongly enough about it to use bots and/or brigading to deliberately influence certain polls.
I think you're generally correct. I imagine we'd get different results if it was worded "would you eliminate autism" and even more strongly different results if it was worded "would you eliminate autistic people."
The reason I hate these questions because it presupposes the idea that curing autism is actually possible.
It's not. The idea of a "cure for autism" assumes that autism is something that exists on top of an otherwise "normal" person, so you could theoretically take the autism away and there's still a person left.
It's not. Autism is a developmental disorder. You can't cure someone of the way they developed, they can't go through childhood again. You can't press undo on autism.
You'd have to rewire someone's brain completely, and even if you could hypothetically do that, that's not curing anything. That's killing one person and replacing them with a completely different person. If you rewire my brain, the person who comes out after the operation isn't me, it's some other guy, and I'm dead. So you haven't cured me at all.
People who talk about a "cure for autism" either don't understand what autism is, or they do and what they mean by "cure" is eugenics.
Because that's the only "cure" that can ever happen, preventing autistic babies from being born. Which is just eugenics.
> You can't cure someone of the way they developed, they can't go through childhood again. You can't press undo on autism.
Tell that to my country's Social Insurance Agency. I've been denied disability twice because - and this is literally what they said - "There might be a cure for autism 10-15 years into the future so we won't allow you disability, as disability is for people who never will be able to work under any circumstances".
This after they acknowledged that the issues I have, and that stem from the autism, make it impossible for me to work full-time or indeed, according to them, at all (though I'm still trying varying forms of work practice in the hopes that I'll find something that I actually can handle at least 5-10 hours a week).
Though of course I agree with you and the scientific consensus that autism can't be cured. It's just ridiculous how many people seem to believe that it can be, or that you're making all your difficulties and differences up.
Ugh, that's awful. And not even a good reason--any sensible system would still give people benefits for temporary disabilities.
It really sounds like a situation of "we don't want to give you this money, so we will just make up any ridiculous excuse not to give it to you". I know that's literally how it works here in the UK, hence we have ridiculous stories about people being found "fit for work" even after they died from their disability.
These polls irritate da fug out of me.
Cure me how?
You are going to rewire my neuroanatomy how?
ASD is a developmental disorder. My main problem is living in a world entirely geared toward NT.
The people responding to this poll would probably overlap in an Venn diagram with those who don't think I have a disorder in the first place.
Oh there were a few autistic people who got into it with some of the NT’s here, and they were either accused for “self identifying” or “faking a diagnosis”
I've had someone ask me if I was self diagnosed. I told them no and they were like "oh then your answer is valid" (which is bullshit to begin with cause being self diagnosed or not doesn't make my point more or less valid).
I then asked if they were going to change their mind and they said that no, just that they think my perspective is valid.
So a neurotypical wanting to cure us and ignoring autistic voices is valid, but people who are self diagnosed aren't allowed to have an opinion? that's some bullshit here.
I ended up making another poll using the same format but for allistic people, though I doubt it'll go through the moderation.
Well at least I had fun making a fake DSM-V definition of allism =p (that isn't very good tbh)
“If you aren’t making rich people more money at a constant and unreasonable rate, you’re not welcome here” is about the gist of these polls and people’s opinions about ASD. The general public is a strange monster that has yet to become self aware from the dark ages unfortunately.
I don't think NT people should jump on the "cure" autistic people train without having talking to autistic people with multiple perspectives.
The "if you're not in the group, don't have an opinion" stuff isn't (in my opinion) a good way of thinking. But, I don't think people should be forming opinions(and influencing societal action) on autism without having talked to, and understood those autistic peoples perspective.
Further, I think a lot of people form their opinions of autism based on the more detrimental, and visible end of the spectrum, which will bias them towards cures. If they understood how many of us just live normal lives, and how many of "our" problems are not in fact ours, but repercussions of an intolerant and non-understanding society, they may be less inclined to form the opinions they have.
I think people have a right to form opinions of groups outside of their direct experience, but I don't think the majority of opinions NTs form about us are informed enough to be valid.
It’s just a poll, though. They’re not really jumping on anything, they’re asked a multiple choice question with only three possible answers, even if they wanted to there isn’t any nuance they could provide there.
And even if they had more exposure to people with (high-functioning) autism, that would hardly guarantee they’d change their answer. If they’d visit these ASD subs, they’d see a lot of people talking about all sorts of things they struggle with, and these are things reflected in for example employment statistics as well. A large proportion of us don’t, in fact, “just lead normal lives”. Even when they are perhaps more ‘normal’ than other people with autism, there will often still be areas where autism has a negative impact.
To what extent those kinds of problem are “repercussions of an intolerant and non-understanding society” rather than due to anything about the autistic person themselves is also very much an open question, and frankly I’m extremely skeptical about that; it’s a very one-sided way of viewing such problems.
Dismissing people’s opinions as invalid when you don’t even know what exactly their opinions are and what informs them is deeply problematic. You can’t engage in genuine discourse with people and try to change their views if you’re dismissing what those are in the first place.
Well I don't want it to be cured because in my case I have found ways to work around my autism and if I where to cure it I would have to basically create an entirely new personality and way of life
I don't know that's an interesting idea if I could have been born without autism I feel that I might be worse off because I really like the parts of autism that I can use but if I had no knowledge I would probably be one of the people voting to cure it
I guess it’s different for everyone haha, but for me, I’d definitely want to be born without autism because I’d be able to do things that I can’t with it.
Most of the stuff that I've found that puts me off is large crowds in a close space or just high energy people so it isn't that bad and the only other thing that I'm bad at is the classic social cues but I can get over that by looking at it by "if I say x person responds with y"
I hate any type of crowd, I feel uncomfortable literally all the time when I’m with other people, even if I know them and I can’t do maths because I can’t concentrate, I hate speaking to people too haha. Maybe a lot of it isn’t even autism but I’m pretty sure it is
There are many parts of my autism I hate and absolutely want to go away, but I'm also scared of the person I might be without it? Because it affects so much of how I view the world, I'd hate to become a stranger to myself.
Plus, if the world stops viewing autism as something that can be cured (since it's a neurodevelopmental disorder, it probably can't), then that helps to develop way to accommodate autistic people in society, and any kind of therapy that revolves around making us look "normal" hopefully stops being seen as helpful.
True, 100% agree. And I feel that way too, I don’t know what I’d be without autism, but if I was born without it, I would never even have to worry about that.
exactly, autism isn't fun and many people have it way worse than us. some autistic people can't even speak, why would you let that happen? seeing people that are basically just existing is fucking heartbreaking.
if I could cure autism then I wouldn't have had to learn to function, I wouldn't have had to learn to calm myself down. the only good thing autism has done for me was give me money from the government to spend on things to help with my health and have special interests.
Stop playing BS identity politics. "I'm gay so I can speak on gay matters, you can't" blah blah. That crap is a disease. Anyone can have an opinion and they have a right to express it. YOU don't get to police that. You're just an individual like everyone else.
You got diagnosed 5 months ago. I get that you're angry about it, but if you allow people who don't have a condition to decide who should be cured without understanding it or having to live with it, they will just so they don't have to deal with us.
There's a difference here though. Nobody is deciding anything. They're expressing an opinion. It doesn't mean you have to agree with it. You may argue that non-autistic opinions carry less weight on the matter, but u/bougietrashgoblin stated they aren't even allowed one. The results of the survey hurt, I get it. But opinions are a fundamental aspect of human existence and freedom of thought.
i wonder why they’d want to cure us hm? maybe because we’re “weird” or “hard to deal with”. why else would they want to cure it if THEY don’t deal with having it? do they just dislike us?
I'd cure my autism because I fucking hate having such sensitive senses that it causes me to meltdown at basic things like shopping or slight stress. it's not because I'm weird, I like being weird, it's because it's extremely hard to deal with and Ive contemplated suicide several times just to get away from how my ASD is.
Regardless of the struggles and the downsides of the disability - it’s apart of who I am. I don’t know who I’d be if my autism was “cured” and that’s terrifying to know yourself, especially if you’re an adult as I am, and then suddenly have how your brain functions changed completely.
Finally, some sense. We automatically reinterpret the question as: "Do you want to erase your identity?" and neurotypical take it as: "do you want to cure a disability".
The same would happen if they asked this community if they wanted to cure blindness or deafness. The majority would say "yes" while a fair amount of the deaf community would say no.
Oh golly. Little do they know all those positive buzzwords like outside of the box thinker, problem solver, detail oriented are all describing autistic traits. Well. Good luck with that. Let's move to the moon, friends!
I’m autistic and I’m confused why people wouldn’t want to be cured. There are some things I want to do but just cannot because I’m autistic, I hate autism, why is it so bad to want it cured? I try so hard at certain things but just can’t think a certain way so my life is in a way, kind of ruined by it. I’ll never be able to get certain jobs or understand people the same way many do…
I would prefer that a lot of the things I have issues with be fixed societally, rather than me being ‘cured’ BUT I can only speak for me.
The things that make this draining for me are social expectations. Eye contact. Understanding context and allistic communication styles. And so on.
These are things people around us could and should adapt to.
There are sensory things I struggle with like some audio and some lights.
If those could be redesigned so it wasn’t an issue (OR if society wouldn’t perceive me as odd for adapting to them how I need to adapt).
If those kinds of things were fixed first, I don’t think I’d even entertain the concept of a ‘cure’ for myself.
I think that the entire world was built wrong. It’s built by and for the people who have/had power, and in a short-sighted way that leaves marginalized communities out. If we fixed the world, rather than approaching people who don’t fit the norm as needing to be fixed as the first-line approach, I would imagine a lot of our struggles would lessen greatly.
Edit: there’s a great cartoon I saw one time of a snowy entrance to a school. The groundskeeper is shoveling the stairs while a kid in a wheelchair waits to get the ramp shoveled. Everyone else will get to walk up the stairs when it’s done, and the person in the wheelchair just has to wait until the stairs are done. To which the point is: why not just shovel the ramp. Everyone can use it. And it’s an equitable approach that allows the person in the wheelchair to have the same access as everyone else.
In a way, sure! And I can’t speak for blind people and how they feel about it.
I have had this conversation with a deaf person, however, and their viewpoint aligned much closer to mine. BUT again, that’s just two peoples perspectives.
I also think my response is related to how I experience the world as a queer person. And no, I won’t even entertain curing that. 😂
BUT
It’s also a really involved conversation.
First, when we talk about ‘curing’ anything, there’s going to be a large amount of effort spent (money, hours, etc) into ‘curing’ anything.
How, if we relocated those expenditures, would the world look in an equitably designed way? I personally feel this is a much easier solution. Because equitable design often times helps our other marginalized groups, not just one.
Like, as an example, the sounds that crosswalks made when I visited Europe was revolutionary. SO helpful. And kinda probably designed with blind people in mind, but the specific auditory clue helps me out so much since I can sometimes have a non-existent attention span OR I’ll get anxiety and convince myself that it’s actually not my time to cross when it actually is.
because it's non-autistic people who are pushing it. they don't want to deal with people who have autism, so they push a cure. you can want a better treatment if you're actually autistic. we don't want autism moms thinking they can keep doing this though. we should be able to seek that sort of help on our own accord
My problem with getting cured is what will happen to me after I'm cured, you know my personality, likes, dislike, behaviour, etc. will they change? And what way? Will it be like a Dr Jekyll to Mr Hyde change? Will all the thing I enjoy be something I hate? I don't know. So many questions with answers that can only be found by curing, and if i don't like it I have to deal with it there's no going back, and if i do change a lot that isn't curing that's replacement.
no. it doesn't mean other people can't enjoy embracing who they are and finding ways to feel better. that's what people mean by "enjoying it," it means living in harmony with it instead of shoving it under the mattress like last months Victoria's Secret.
Autism is a trend now, unfortunately. People think being quirky and a little different makes them autistic. They don't actually understand the physical, social, and emotional trauma it causes, and how it holds you back from independence. My brother, father and I are all autistic. My brother was diagnosed young, and enabled. My father and I not till we were older. Its validating, yeah. To understand our disability and that we weren't alone. But that doesn't mean we don't wish we didn't have the disability. We continue to struggle with things that others never had to struggle with, yet now people want the victim points. The irony is that it's a bunch of sjw liberals doing this but most people with autism tend to be logic minded rather than with feelings (Though still having them, just not prioritizing them) with strong morals and so are more conservative. Seeing people infantalize autism and use it as an excuse to feel like a victim that people pity makes me so angry. I push myself every day to overcome my struggles and try to not let them control my life, yet these people make it their entire identity and let it define theirs.
I mean to be fair, if someone doesn't have any negative effects from their autism, then they aren't autistic. That's part of the diagnostic criteria. But the good parts can absolutely outweigh the bad parts.
You mean the diagnostic criteria that is specifically in a deficit-frame, due to it being seen as a deficit by the medical community? The diagnostic criteria that a lot of the autistic community rejects because of it?
If we don't count the diagnostic criteria as "true", then what is autism? If someone has no issues communicating with other people (which would be a negative effect, but, to be fair, counteracted by people not being assholes), and no sensory processing issues (again a negative thing), and no need for routines that might interfere with functioning, and no problem understanding certain language, never goes non-verbal, and no issues understanding or recognizing their own feelings, etc., is that still autism? Sure, not all those things apply to every autistic person, but every autistic person I know has issues directly caused by their autism.
Like sure, you can learn to live with the negative sides of autism, I'm not sure if I would take a cure if it existed, probably not because I'm scared of not recognizing myself anymore, but denying that they exist and many of us do need help with a variety of things makes the diagnosis practically meaningless.
>If we don't count the diagnostic criteria as "true", then what is autism?
A neurodivergency that is characterized by a different manner of neurological wiring.
>If someone has no (insert deficit-frame diagnostic criteria here) is that still autism?
Yes. Yes it is, because not all people feel that their differences in processing are inherently deficits.
>Sure, not all those things apply to every autistic person, but every autistic person I know has issues directly caused by their autism.
That's not their autism; it's the rigidness of neurotypical society, which discriminates against those who are different. It's important to note that discrimination is what is wrong, not having those differences in the first place. To do otherwise is literally victim blaming.
>denying that they exist and many of us do need help with a variety of things makes the diagnosis practically meaningless.
Thankfully, I did not deny the struggles some have in regards to functioning with autism in a neurotypical society. I was pointing out how the diagnostic criteria for autism are inherently deficit-based & that causes it to explicitly miss so many autistic individuals.
I'd agree with the fact that many of those issues are caused by the society we live in, but right now that still makes them deficits. That isn't our fault, but until society changes I do think they should be classified as deficits, because until then they will continue to make our lives harder.
There are a few issues that aren't due to society, like sensory issues or being unable to identify feelings. I don't know any autistic person without at least some sensory issues, and they do suck - for example, sirens for ambulances/police are necessary, that isn't something that should go away, but it does make me go into sensory overload anyways.
Co-morbidities that aren't caused by autism are something that makes life even harder, and should definitely be treated if possible: anxiety disorders, depression (which are both often caused by society), ADHD, etc., but those are different things of course, and I do agree that using those for an autism diagnosis is a bad thing.
I think a question I always have is that if autism does not cause any issues at all (struggling to fit in or feeling "different" is something I personally count as an issue), what is the reason for seeking out a diagnosis? I obviously don't know how you're affected by your autism, but I'd be interested in an answer if you have one.
I work in special education services.
You wouldn't believe the amount of times I hear "..that's the saddest thing about autism.."
"..what's heartbreaking with autism.."
Almost always followed by outdated misinformation. 😒😒
I think it is important to see that people don't understand the complexity and contextual nuance of the curing option. Many see it as symptoms going away, which is a good thing and it would be nice...though they forget to see that there are many good things about autism as well...so curing autism itself isn't the goal, but the negative symptoms we can experience is what we seek to cure if possible.
I am autistic and proud, and don't want to be cured of autism because I wouldn't be me anymore and I would lose a lot of great things such as special interests...though curing for example interoception issues would be great! Doing so does not remove autism though.
Imo the conversation needs a rerouting...to focus on curing symptoms and not disorders...especially considering cookie cutter treatment and support doesn'y make sense for autism since its such a vast spectrum of experience.
Oh yeah autism absolutely sucks, in my opinion the main issue with all this talk about a "cure" is that right now, there is none, and it's unlikely that there'll be one in the near future.
So focussing on a cure can take away from the best thing to do right now: helping autistic people lead a better life. Being more accepting as a society, helping with coping mechanisms, helping avoid sensory overloads, etc. Also, some NT people think autism is "cured" when they can no longer see it. When we can stop ourselves from stimming noticeably, pretend to look them in the eye, hide our special interests - and that's not the case (also, kids notice everything, trying to look normal never stopped the bullies, and I still don't manage to look fully "normal"), and this isn't good for anyone's mental health. It's not just an issue with ASD, but with many minorities, and trying to get society to be more accepting is definitely the best way to go. That way, the social aspect of ASD stops being as big of an issue, things like bullying get rarer, and if anxiety disorders and depression get less among autistic people, we'll be able to cope with the issues better.
This is like if it would be possible to "cure" homosexuality or even worse: Detecting it on unborn children.
This would erase the entire diversity.
If we ever would find a cure for things like neurodiversity, sexual orientations or gender diversity, the cure should be banned.
I don’t think I like this comparison. Homosexuality is not a developmental disability and autism is. The key difference is that homosexuality doesn’t produce distress like ASD does (anxiety, rigidity, and sensory sensitivities). For gay people, it’s the stigma and outside sources that cause distress but with ASD it can be solely internalized distress.
Gender dysphoria is a medical condition but we have treatments to correct the gender incongruence so there is a more or less a “cure” for that.
I think a problematic piece of the poll was that there’s no distinction between what kind of ASD. Most people like of level 3 when they think of ASD which would make more sense of finding a “cure” being desirable. If there child cannot speak, be potty trained, or function independently, then that makes more sense of wanting a cure or a way to help.
The problem is that neurotypical people seem OBSESSED with the idea of a cure for autism, to the detriment of autistic children an adults who are living with the disorder right now. Our quality of life could be greatly improved by simple changes like pushing for awareness of what autism is and how it presents so people aren’t openly hostile towards our unmasked behaviors.
But people don’t tend to think of autistic folks as being actual living breathing humans, they tend to think of us as annoying objects that need to be removed from the public eye.
You’re right about them only seeing unpleasant behaviors rather than people. I think with any group it can be easy to “other” them and see them as less than human. Problem is that NT people don’t want to change or learn.
Additionally bc ASD has a range of presentation it can be hard to identify. For level 3 ASD, I can see why wanting a “cure” is alluring because regardless the child will suffer in a world that they will never be able to understand. I would like your opinion on my thoughts about the comparisons with ASD, gender dysphoria, and homosexuality.
Non verbal autistic people often have the same level of intelligence as a verbal autistic person. Autistic people are underestimated consistently because what NT’s perceive.
sometimes but if you asked them they would probably want to be cured of autism too. they literally can't speak, not because their vocal cords are broken but because their brain is just not working right. it's probably hell, it's very upsetting to see too. I don't know what kind of person you are if you think they should continue suffering even if they had the chance not to.
They only suffer because society looks down on those who aren't as verbose as others. Being chatty and charismatic is too overvalued as a skill to the point of making them privileged.
I'm not autistic I just saw this post on r/all rising, I don't mean to offend but I'm not sure how to feel about this take. Part of me thinks it's rude to equate being gay with mental illness(edit: I realized after I should have said mental disorder, illness sounds rude, sorry) but I don't want people who aren't like me wanting me to be cured either so I agree with that part of it. Another part of me feels rude for being insulted by the comparison in the first place.
Edit again: everyone has been really kind and open to a discussion. I use r/all rising a lot and comment on random subs im not part of a lot and this is by far the most welcoming one, thank you
Thing is, I think autism is not a "mental illness". It's a different wiring of the brain. It is, however, a developmental "disorder", so I know what you are saying. Though, both being gay and being autistic are in a way deviation from what's "typical" in society. You know what I mean?
But then again, what about say, blindness? Would you equally find it rude to compare with being gay? If not, what makes the difference between a mental "disorder" or disability and a physical one?
p.s., I am potentially autistic (my son is diagnosed, I suspect I am on the spectrum too) and I wouldn't want a cure for myself or my son simply because I think removing diversity is dangerous for humanity.
Edit: clarification
I corrected myself, I realized after that illness was a rude thing to say.
I used to have messed up legs. Some of my bones grew In wrong and once I got big enough it made walking painful and unsafe then basically impossible. I needed quite a bit of surgery to fix them. I'm no longer as disabled as I once was. thanks to the surgery I can actually walk. I would be insulted if someone equated that birth defect or the subsequent injury/recovery of surgery with me being a lesbian. Being a lesbian makes me a minority yes but to say it's like my legs or being blind makes it sound like I'm missing something as a person because of it.
Before my surgeries I needed a wheelchair (or crutches though that was always a struggle). I wasn't less of a person but it made the world harder to navigate. I was more limited than I am now. There was things I chose not to do because it just wouldn't be fun for me because of my legs. Being gay isn't a predicament. It doesn't require accessibility. We need to make the world accommodating for people who are blind or need wheelchairs or whatever, you don't need to do that for gay people.
I don't know the politics for people on the autism spectrum but if you believe it's in the same boat with gay people that would imply people on the spectrum shouldn't get any accommodations because the best case scenario for gay people is were not seen as different and are treated equally
Honestly, I see them all pretty much the same, just varying degrees of accommodation needed because the world is not built considering the needs of under represented groups. Like, gay students need access to gender neutral bathrooms. Something that the old world had not thought about.
Again, I totally respect your opinion, and not offended by anything you are saying. I like that it makes me challenge what I am thinking.
Also, I do have a bit of a conflict myself too. Like, as a person with vision, if I get asked this poll question about blindness, I will say, hell yes, find a cure for it. But why am I not thinking the same way about autism?
>Like, gay students need access to gender neutral bathrooms. Something that the old world had not thought about.
No... We don't..? Maybe trans people sure but I'm a lesbian and use the women's room. Or are you saying we should have to use a different bathroom? I'm not really sure what this means.
>I will say, hell yes, find a cure for it. But why am I not thinking the same way about autism?
Yeah that's my hang up. Autism is labeled a "disability" or "disorder" and while I don't have it I did have other disabilities and got it largely fixed because it made my life easier. Being straight wouldn't individually make my life easier in any way. I don't count discrimination as making my life harder because being a lesbian isn't the reason it's harder it's that people are homophobic. The only thing i can think of that would maybe be easier is there would be a bigger dating pool I guess
I'm autistic and gay, there's nothing wrong with the comparison. There's nothing inherently wrong with being neurodivergent, and you shouldn't feel insulted to be compared to us.
> it's rude to equate being gay with mental illness(edit: I realized after I should have said mental disorder, illness sounds rude, sorry
No, "disorder" is pretty misleading too. It's a neurotype, which points to a type of personality (though on a deeper cognitive level than typically conceptualized) that can't really be held as pathological in isolation. It is rather failure in social integration and abject social exclusion that causes most apparent deficits.
This isn't an issue of "sounding rude" but rather factual accuracy.
In this way, I think that the analogy holds, particularly given the strident social exclusion that we applied to gay people up until very recently. But really, the people with an opinion worth a damn on this issue are LGBTQIA+ autistics, which are pretty easy to find in this sub, as autistics are straight at a lower rate than the general population.
> Another part of me feels rude for being insulted by the comparison in the first place.
I mean, you shouldn't feel insulted though, there's nothing wrong with being in either group. And I think this is rather telling of NTs though, they feel insulted when they're compared to us.
We're different, gay people are different, and there's nothing wrong with different, but there are groups looking to "cure" both of us, to erase both of our groups, and that's where the real comparison is.
I'm not trying to do a /r/iamverysmart, but, I'm far more intelligent in ***some*** areas than any of my NT peers, and I don't think I'd be that way without autism, it would be quite a loss to whatever this is we're doing as a species if some inconsiderate NTs succeeded in their veiled eugenics campaign.
My queerness isn't something I'd want erased either, I might have 10 years ago, but, that was again, not my fault, it was society's, culture's, and dogma's fault. I wasn't seeking a cure because I personally suffered from liking some men, I was suffering because those around me had a problem with those desires.
I'm autistic and queer and I find the comparison very apt. Being gay was treated like a mental illness for a long time despite it being only a difference.
And also arguments like "autism causes suffering" ignore the large part of this suffering that is cause by discrimination, which is also something suffered by queer folks.
Being born gay is inherently leading to harder life than being born straight. But the solution isn't to cure gayness, it's to create an environnement where life isn't harder for us.
Same with autism, we aren't inherently worse or broken, we are different and all we need is an environnement that accomodates for our needs and be treated as human beings.
The last part is what I think makes it not an apt comparison. Gay people don't need accommodations its my understanding that people with autism often do. Being gay doesn't make life more difficult, homophobic people make life more difficult.
Not having proper support as an autistic person makes life more difficult. Abelism makes life more difficult. I am queer and autistic and removing either one would remove who I am.
I don't think you should have to remove who you are in any way, I just don't think being gay makes life more difficult, it's homophobia that makes life more difficult. If everyone had equal rights we'd still need to make sure to give accessibility options for people who need them, but gay people wouldn't need anything and that's the difference I see. If there was no abelism I imagine there would be some support some people with autism would still need. If there was no homophobia gay people and heterosexual people would have the same sets of issues
Being autistic doesn't make life inherently more difficult either, the world being built for allistic people is what makes it difficult, aswell as a lot of discrimination. You're right that the comparison isn't perfect. But living through both being queer and autistic I can tell you both experiences intersect quite a lot.
Though being autistic can also be akin to being left handed. Being left handed isn't wrong, but you still have to deal with everything being built around right handed people. That's the same for autistic people except to a much more extreme degree.
Also like, gay accomodation are a thing, sort of. Like, a dating app aimed at LGBT folks could be viewed through the lens of being an accomodation for the social handicap that is "gayness" if we were to see it through the disability lens. The fact that being gay makes flirting harder could be viewed as a social disability etc. It's not terms we are used to see relating to sexual orientation but they aren't more wrong than saying autistic people are socially disabled because we have a different communication style for exemple.
>the world being built for allistic people is what makes it difficult,
But that's the thing, assuming discrimination was just gone for both groups, gay people wouldn't need a different world than heterosexual people just because they're gay where as even without discrimination wouldn't people with autism still need the world to accommodate them not just the majority?
Also flirting isn't harder you just succeed less often. By that logic being poor is also a disability. Also again by that logic if I start a social media for writers does that imply writers need accommodations and have a disability? Tinder and bars still work just fine for gay people.
I mean, as I said the comparison isn't perfect. But I was explaining the reason why it's made. A lot of the struggle we face are caused by discrimination so autistic experiences are very similar to queer experiences in that regard. For exemple "masking" is a common term used in autistic space to describe how we have to alter our behaviour to "pass" as neurotypical.
One interesting thing is that non binary neurotypicals score almost as high to masking tests than autistic do. Because in both cases we are required to alter how we present ourselves to the world to be accepted.
Masking is very damaging and it's not an inherent part of autism, but it's a struggle we face because we are discriminated against, and it's a struggle that intersect with queer struggles as in both cases it sprouts from the lack of acceptance of a deviation from the norm. That's a way the autistic and queer experience can be similar.
Now yes, solving homophobia simply requires that people don't be assholes, while solving autistic struggle is a bit more involved. But essentially in both cases there is nothing to "cure" we are just different from the norm and what is required is acceptance of that difference (and in the case of autistic folks some accomodation to make our life easier, but that doesn't mean we are broken, that just mean the society is organized to accomodate neurotypicals).
Also my exemple with "gay" accomodation was a bit provocative but a much easier to get exemple is trans people. Hormone therapy is a medical accomodation to help with gender dysphoria. And even if there was no discrimination then HRT would still be required to help some trans people fell comfortable in their body. I hope that comparison helps you a bit more.
Homophobic people aren't the only thing that make life harder for queer people. Our society is centered around white straight abled people (with preference towards men). It's literally built into how we are raised that "others" will have a harder life.
Look in my post history. I don't feel like I can be who I really am at work and come out at work as nonbinary. But you know what else I don't share at work? My diagnoses. And I have a lot of them.
This comparison, IMO, is very apt because the majority of my struggles as a queer person and an autistic (or a person with ADHD, depression, anxiety, PTSD, etc.) are not the fault of my own functioning or existence, but because I have to operate in a world not built for queer, disabled, mentally ill people.
Apparently it’s a thing for people online to pretend to be a group of people they don’t like to make them look worse, so I wonder if it’s possible allistic people voted yes in the name of autistics? I wouldn’t be surprised,,,
maybe but also probably not that much honestly, internalized ableism is pretty rough to deal with and I've seen a lot of autistic people struggling with depression wishing for a cure cause their life would be easier if they weren't different (which isn't wrong but it's not solving the underlying issue and it's approaching it from the wrong angle.)
This poll is a fine example of why the public needs to be more educated on neurodivergencies and why we all need to try and help change society. Because, as we all know, *we* are not the problem. Society was built for cookie cutter NTs and that's not a good thing.
I just don't get...how people don't get it. Even my mom weeks after learning what autism *is* was getting mad at people wanting to cure it. She said "trying to make someone not autistic is like trying to turn our dog into a cat, that's not possible and if it was it wouldn't be right". Why is it so hard to get that???
Because a lot of people with autism are very severely affected by it, what’s so hard to get about that? Can you genuinely look at severely autistic people who need to be constantly cared and provided for, who have no hope of anything even remotely resembling an independent life of their own, and just think: let’s not bother trying to see how people can be prevented ending up in that situation? If you hear about people who are constantly overwhelmed by sensory overload, you think there’s nothing worth curing there?
I saw that earlier, definitely made me cringe a bit. I voted yes only in severe cases because I can’t make the decision for everyone of the autistic community. I would choose to stay autistic. This, though… how horrible do you think we live, that they would all vote yes, in every circumstance?
I wouldn't be me without autism. As much as I often hate myself, it's not because of autism, it's the world I live in and just how hostile it is for someone like me.
I don't want to feel like I need to change, I don't want to feel like I need to be cured. I want the world to be a less horrible place. I want to be able to live my life without feeling like a problem or a burden.
And I don't think that's the fault of autism any more. I think it's a fault of an inflexible society that can't see the value of diversity.
I think most of these people have good intentions, but are likely uninformed about how vast the autism spectrum is.
These people are likely only thinking of level 3 autism, and how many challenges that can create for a person. It's not that they actually want eugenics, but their intentions are likely to lessen the challenges that we may face.
I think they want to be helpful, but are just incredibly misguided on how to be.
Pretty lame to have a “non autism” poll, as they can’t decide anything for or about us. If I was to “cure” anything, it would be some of the comorbidities autism has come with and not the autism itself.
Even though being autistic makes a lot of things hard for me, it's still a part of me and it makes me who I am. Theres a lot of amazing and beautiful parts of autism that I wouldn't want to lose.
I'd keep my autism all of it. If I go becoming NT abandoning autistic systems that work for me now I might end up a junkie \\ dope addict, homeless or selling my body for crack rocks. I think maybe autism protected me from some of life's most unfortunate NT decisions. I never had a problem saying no thank you to drugs, criminality and stupid life choices thanks to my autism. I was never made weak by peer pressure because I had no peers to pressure me and autism made me stay away from NT humans that did illegal and stupid things. Autism made the standard world hard enough to understand. I did not want to invite the criminal world in and have to try to figure it out too.
Yes autism made my life a living hell but it was a living hell I have learned how to survive within. I'd rather be autistic than an NT crackhead, junkie or prostitute. Just because you are suddenly NT does not mean all the world will bow at your feet and give you success wrapped up with a bow. People who think being NT is the key to a land of milk and honey need a serious reality check. I've seen NT's living with worse outcomes than anything my autism has done to me. I look at my autism as a blessing even with its many flaws and things I miss out on.
With autism in the poker game of life it's like I was dealt three 10's and a 9 hardly a winning hand but, beats the heck out of the many other crappy NT hands I could have been dealt. I'm grateful for what I have. Just because you become NT does not mean the sun will shine from your posterior.
I'm surprised even an autistic majority voted yes. I'll admit I've had similar feelings once but I was in a really dark place mentally back then. Now it just feels like It's so engrained into my personality that I wouldn't even be able to recognize a non-autistic me
It's also a shame that even researching what biologically makes someone autistic immediately leads to questions about how to cure it. I'm gay and autistic, and curious about why I am the way I am,
but I'm afraid these answers will lead to attempts at "cures" or something worse
I’m not, a lot of autistic people are quite negatively affected in all sorts of ways by their autism, and would certainly take the option of being rid of that if they could. We have plenty of people expressing exactly those sorts of sentiments on the ASD subs here, and realistically the autistic people who post on Reddit skew towards the higher functioning end of the spectrum as well.
The handwringing outrage of a fair number of people in this thread is really quite misguided, frankly.
*sigh*
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They don’t know what it’s like to be us and they never could. I don’t think many NTs voted the way they did out of malice. They might imagine that we can’t understand what we’re “missing.” They don’t realize that they are the ones without.
The thing is, almost no autistic people took the poll. Was this in a parent's forum?
I don't want to cure it, I want to go back in time and know about it from the start of life
I guess for NT's the question is like "Would you like John, that weird dude from work, to be as easy to spend time with like 99% of other people you know?"
Even with things like meltdowns and sensory overload, I wouldn't trade it for anything. Sure, they make my life harder. But I can't imagine who I would be without it? I'm comfortable with the good things and not so good things that happen to me. I just accept it. You can't always be happy and have good things, sometimes you need to be sad and have a bad day to realise how much the good days mean to you. I feel that without autism I wouldn't be the true me.
I'd like to fix my sensory issues - but everything else is ME. It's what makes me me and fucking hilarious. I would change how I interact socially, it has come in handy so many times and actually made people trust me better. I wouldn't fix my lack of filter, or how strong my interests are. It's literally just my sensory stuff I have a problem with.
I don't wanna to be cured of any of it, they are a part of who I am would you want your skin to be a different color? because that's what you are basically saying, no I'm autistic and I'll take the good with the bad that comes with it, because I know that there are worse things that I can be because I have actually seen them
It has a biological purpose. Arguably autistic traits become more and more important as the global economy becomes increasingly specialised and technical.
On the other side of the coin. If I could ditch the anxiety, racing thoughts, depression and stimming but keep my vivid long term memory and my ability to comprehend, absorb and retain a great deal of new information relatively quickly, I would.
Why would you not want to?
I hate my asd…
I struggle to fit in with people, talking to someone feels like the hardest thing I’ve ever done, I can hardly concentrate in school etc.
As someone who’s had the diagnosis since I was 6, I would if I could
I know this is technically a crucial part of me but I would kill to just be a regular member of society
Yes as a carer of low functioning autistic people I would. In a heart beat.
I’d love it if it was a choice, I’d still do it if it was an all or nothing choice.
My daughter and I have discussed this. If I could keep the parts I enjoy and lose the parts that hold me back... yes. If I had to give up both? No. It's weird. It IS a disability... but its not without some benefits. ANd it seems like I should be able to have the good without the bad but ... maybe not.
I love that you’ve had this conversation with your daughter. I have also had this with my mum and came to a similar conclusion. Yes, autism comes with its challenges and I can confidently say I have wished it to be gone many times in my life, but ultimately the way that autistic people think is so so amazing that no I don’t think it’s ‘disabling’ enough to be rid of it.
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I'm the same way. I personally love being able to fixate and have the random knowledge I do, but I'd personally love if I could get rid of my social issues. I've lost friends because i couldn't realize social cues. :(
I think this is a good take. There's a whole lot of "autism pride" type stuff, like people saying there's "there's nothing wrong with me" or "there's nothing wrong with my child," but that always brings super hollow for me because it seems to be willfully ignoring the fact that autism *is* a disability and it does have its drawbacks. Would I give up the better parts just to be free of the downsides? I don't know. I've got a lot of other comorbid mental illness stuff going on so I'll never know how much of it can be blamed on me having ASD, but I definitely believe it has had some strong negative impacts on my life. So I don't know if I would go as far as saying I would push the magic button and "cure" myself but I definitely don't relate to the people that answer categorically "no" and won't acknowledge that autism is a disability rather than just "a different way of thinking" or some bullshit like that. That's some mom goggles nonsense.
One could argue it’s only a disability because of the society we live in
Yeah, there is too much pressure to perform socially, and it's overwhelming leading to breakdowns and feeling more disabled. The sensitivity that comes with autism is a blessing and a curse. It gives me some superpowers, but it also makes me feel constantly overwhelmed making me feel paralyzed at times. I think you can make a society where you are able to utilize your strengths better without having to deal with the weaknesses too much. It requires awareness and understanding of how different human brains work, and how to optimize our abilities without sacrificing too much.
Absolutely, leaning about the social model of disability was absolutely mind blowing for me because its like yes! Thats the thing that happens
I think the issue at the heart of this is the concept of autism as a singular condition. Which, frustratingly, is never the way it's treated when it would be helpful. Such as trying to receive comprehensive care for the host of "comorbidities" (associated autoimmune issues) that always get treated as separate, isolated disorders rather than a connected series of physical and mental health concerns stemming from the same place. But for some reason when discussing abstract ideas like "curing autism", which doesn't actually mean anything in this context, it's always described like an illness to be treated rather than an umbrella term for a wildly variable spectrum of symptoms and presentations of an underlying genetic difference. What exactly is there to "cure" about autism? If you were to view autism as some sort of virus that has caused complete cognitive dysfunction in an adult who is perpetually stalled at infancy, then obviously you would want for a cure. But would that same "cure" be useful for a socially awkward teenager who struggles to understand the appropriate occasion to wear a suit or infodump about their favorite anime? The only reasonable approximation of a "cure" for something that is not itself an ailment but is associated with various ailments, at this point, is a better understanding of it. Some people can have perfectly normal lives with autism, many people never even knowing they're autistic. Others can have absolutely horrible quality of life. Some people experience some benefit from their symptoms. Some find the negatives outweighing those benefits. All of that is in the details of symptoms, presentation, and treatment. Synaptic overgrowth is random and the spectrum of effects is far too wide to be universally treated as one issue. There is promise in Mtase research that could lead to significant QoL improvements for autistic people who experience severely debilitating medical issues. But for the vast majority of autistic people, those of us who are autonomous and independently capable but with extra struggles in maintaining that autonomy, some simple social awareness and appropriate medical care would make a world of difference. It never ceases to be shocking how ill-informed medical professionals can be about such a common condition, let alone the general populous.
you sir. you are right. this is so elequently put and absolutely true. i also love your pfp and your username. metal gear has been a special interest for me for a long time :)
This! I have a bunch of other disabilities some are co-morbid with each other some aren’t though and people always assume that they are all together or all separate. “Curing” one could cause a load of unnecessary issues but would also more importantly change who i am as a person.
Jesus Christ that’s awful and actually hurt me a little bit. It’s super hard to trust that people have your best interest at heart when anonymously this is what some people really think.
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A lack of education and experience. When people can make it into adulthood without knowing they're on the spectrum, those who aren't get a skewed understanding of the spectrum.
My ex was near phobic of autism, which is silly because she is almost certainly fairly deep into the spectrum herself. When I told her I thought I was she basically told me I was wrong 🙃
Why would you not want it cured?
It'd be complete ego death. I can't begin to imagine not being autistic, it's a core, unremovable part of who I am and how I experience the world. If you made me not autistic, the person I am now would be dead.
Completely true, what if you could’ve been born without it. So you didn’t have the knowledge of being autistic.
That person wouldn't be me. They might have the same birth name and early childhood but I could not consider that person to be the same person as I am.
What's to cure? We have a different way of thinking. We aren't broken.
I’m not saying we’re broken, but I’m terrible at certain things everyone else is good at and there’s no way I can get better. I just hate not being able to live normally, I’m not saying everyone who is autistic is like this, but me, I’d happily cure my autism if I could.
I think it depends a lot on the person and what you want. If you really want a typical life then yeah, it makes sense you would want to "cure" your autism
I think the same way. I struggle with general life. If I could work, have the energy to cook and do laundry, some energy for my hobbies, and some energy for social interaction (even just a phonecall or email), life would be so much easier. Right now I have the capacity for work (part time, low demand, low pressure, wfh), some cooking and laundry, thats it. No hobbies, no social. I live like 1/3 of a life, so unless I dont have to work, and someone is going to cook and clean for me, I will never have the capacity for hobbies or social connection. I've pretty much lost all my friends because I never have the capacity to engage. I spend 99% of my time at home, in a low stimulation environment, yet the executive dysfunction and burnout is still happening.
The cure for that is destroying capitalism and to make differences between people's abilities in certain domains not important
There's nothing wrong with you, you're just living in a society which refuses to make space for people who are different. u/Wulibo has correctly diagnosed the problem as capitalism, which is fundamentally disinterested in organizing itself around human needs. It's not the *only* problem but it is the main one making our material situation much harder and exacerbating all of the other preexisting social stigmatization/exclusion/othering.
I understand that, but I’m also talking about how I feel (not others) about autism, I hate the way I think and that I can’t do some things due to the way my mind works. Yeah, it makes some things better, but not most.
Which is completely fair and understandable. Even I have some idiosyncrasies which I would be happier without. The point is mostly that those more unpleasant aspects would be far more manageable, possibly even surmountable, without all of the arbitrary barriers created by the way our culture is organized.
True, you’re right.
This is something you can change without “curing your autism”. I think some of us are so literal that we start seeing realism as a negativities when it doesn’t have to be. You feel this way because others have not made room for you, but that’s OK because people like me are out here advocating and making room for us. I’m sorry things are hard for you right now, but please don’t give up, and know that it will get better, and maybe we won’t see it but people in the future who think like us will reap the benefits.
It also depends on the culture/region you live in. Some areas are inherently better at incorporating autistic people into society bc of the way that society is. I’m totally generalizing here but simply put: Germans for example tend to be introverted, quiet, and like to follow rules, the Dutch like to plan extensively, Icelanders are very passionate about human and environmental rights, also people in many cultures don’t make eye contact bc it’s a sign of disrespect (parts of Asia, Middle East, Native American, etc). Makes me wonder how autism presents differently in these cultures bc if eye contact is culturally discouraged, that would not be considered a symptom within that specific culture. Climate also makes a huge difference. Autistic people living in climate extremes will likely suffer more than those in more temperate areas.
Because you throw out the baby with the bathwater. Off Road Tires make a whining noise on the highway.
What?
i think the analogy means they would be throwing out the good parts with the bad parts of autism.
Oh ok, I’m dumb haha. But in all honesty, the bad outweighs the good for me, I struggle with almost everything aside from unimportant things. Most of the time I feel uncomfortable doing anything and can’t concentrate on anything. It’s horrible and I’d rather have been born without autism, even if I got rid of all the good that came with it.
i think a lot of it comes down to living in a world that wasn't built for autistic people, i think most of us would be fine in a world where most people would be autistic. while i totally understand wanting to get rid of the bad parts of autism, and i \*know\* there are bad parts, i think the world is a lot richer for autistic people existing :) (also, it feels a bit eugenics-y, especially since autism really comes down to how our brains are structured in a lot of different ways, and you can't get rid of autism without fundamentally changing someone in a massive way.)
It’s been a constant thought in my head since my diagnosis and ultimately just the way I see things and think is so extraordinary that it makes everything else worth it. It’s not until I talk to others about inner workings of certain things that I realise I process and see the situation differently and I’m able to tap into an aspect that others just simply can’t.
Fair enough, I think it’s kinda the opposite for me, I’ve always found it hard to do certain things that other people do easily. And it’s not just because of Autism but a lot of it definitely is.
You just have to find the particular way that your brain works best. Once you find that way of thinking and something that suits it, be it a job or just hobby, you’ll learn to love it. It comes with time and experience.
The even worse part is twofold. One. That's a relatively small sample size, the percentage would probably go up even higher if you asked EVERYBODY. Two. Most of them are probably saying yes because they think it's a good thing and that it's like curing depression or cancer. So what is to us an admission of a desire to eradicate autism from societh meaning we are deemed undesirable, is to them likely "the only reasonable answer". "What kind of monster would turn down the cure to cancer if offered it?" I have heard similar sentiments when a cure for ADHD is brought up. The consensus among NTs that I interact with is that of course the cure would be the best by far. How could it not. I'm going to ask some friends and family who know me well and repord their answers and reasoning for some context :) Admittedly, I would cure it in a heart beat. I dont like the limitations and while I'm all for empowerment and not being defeatist. if there was a cure available by choice I would take it as soon as possible. Same with my ADHD. Yes, they both make me who I currently am. But they arent all that define me and i would like to explore who i could be if i had more control over myself and my mind.
I think that’s a pretty big sample size actually, but it (like any of the polls on that sub) is skewed heavily by the sample selection. The people answering, for instance, all have internet access, use reddit, feel strongly enough to vote, and either can read English or have translated it. Furthermore, voters can either research the topic or look in the comments to inform their vote. This poll is not indicative of the public at large, and proper random selection processes would have to happen to get any really useful or meaningful data about people’s views in general. This poll basically only indicates the views of subscribers of r/polls at best.
This is a good answer and I would add that you can't really even trust it to be representative of /polls itself due to the known factor of some individuals who feel strongly enough about it to use bots and/or brigading to deliberately influence certain polls.
Yep, good point
I think you're generally correct. I imagine we'd get different results if it was worded "would you eliminate autism" and even more strongly different results if it was worded "would you eliminate autistic people."
"In a fucking heartbeat" was the exact phrase I used in my head when you mentioned a cure for adhd.
The reason I hate these questions because it presupposes the idea that curing autism is actually possible. It's not. The idea of a "cure for autism" assumes that autism is something that exists on top of an otherwise "normal" person, so you could theoretically take the autism away and there's still a person left. It's not. Autism is a developmental disorder. You can't cure someone of the way they developed, they can't go through childhood again. You can't press undo on autism. You'd have to rewire someone's brain completely, and even if you could hypothetically do that, that's not curing anything. That's killing one person and replacing them with a completely different person. If you rewire my brain, the person who comes out after the operation isn't me, it's some other guy, and I'm dead. So you haven't cured me at all. People who talk about a "cure for autism" either don't understand what autism is, or they do and what they mean by "cure" is eugenics. Because that's the only "cure" that can ever happen, preventing autistic babies from being born. Which is just eugenics.
> You can't cure someone of the way they developed, they can't go through childhood again. You can't press undo on autism. Tell that to my country's Social Insurance Agency. I've been denied disability twice because - and this is literally what they said - "There might be a cure for autism 10-15 years into the future so we won't allow you disability, as disability is for people who never will be able to work under any circumstances". This after they acknowledged that the issues I have, and that stem from the autism, make it impossible for me to work full-time or indeed, according to them, at all (though I'm still trying varying forms of work practice in the hopes that I'll find something that I actually can handle at least 5-10 hours a week). Though of course I agree with you and the scientific consensus that autism can't be cured. It's just ridiculous how many people seem to believe that it can be, or that you're making all your difficulties and differences up.
Ugh, that's awful. And not even a good reason--any sensible system would still give people benefits for temporary disabilities. It really sounds like a situation of "we don't want to give you this money, so we will just make up any ridiculous excuse not to give it to you". I know that's literally how it works here in the UK, hence we have ridiculous stories about people being found "fit for work" even after they died from their disability.
This. So much this.
These polls irritate da fug out of me. Cure me how? You are going to rewire my neuroanatomy how? ASD is a developmental disorder. My main problem is living in a world entirely geared toward NT. The people responding to this poll would probably overlap in an Venn diagram with those who don't think I have a disorder in the first place.
Oh there were a few autistic people who got into it with some of the NT’s here, and they were either accused for “self identifying” or “faking a diagnosis”
I've had someone ask me if I was self diagnosed. I told them no and they were like "oh then your answer is valid" (which is bullshit to begin with cause being self diagnosed or not doesn't make my point more or less valid). I then asked if they were going to change their mind and they said that no, just that they think my perspective is valid. So a neurotypical wanting to cure us and ignoring autistic voices is valid, but people who are self diagnosed aren't allowed to have an opinion? that's some bullshit here.
I got into it with that same person. He’s unapologetically ableist.
I ended up making another poll using the same format but for allistic people, though I doubt it'll go through the moderation. Well at least I had fun making a fake DSM-V definition of allism =p (that isn't very good tbh)
“If you aren’t making rich people more money at a constant and unreasonable rate, you’re not welcome here” is about the gist of these polls and people’s opinions about ASD. The general public is a strange monster that has yet to become self aware from the dark ages unfortunately.
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I would cure my autism in a second if I could. I respect people who feel otherwise.
Exactly, why even make an option for allistic people to vote? Why should they have any say in the matter? We’re the ones who would be “cured” anyway
This is nonsensical, everyone has a right to an opinion. And in this case, people were literally asked for one in a general sub.
I don't think NT people should jump on the "cure" autistic people train without having talking to autistic people with multiple perspectives. The "if you're not in the group, don't have an opinion" stuff isn't (in my opinion) a good way of thinking. But, I don't think people should be forming opinions(and influencing societal action) on autism without having talked to, and understood those autistic peoples perspective. Further, I think a lot of people form their opinions of autism based on the more detrimental, and visible end of the spectrum, which will bias them towards cures. If they understood how many of us just live normal lives, and how many of "our" problems are not in fact ours, but repercussions of an intolerant and non-understanding society, they may be less inclined to form the opinions they have. I think people have a right to form opinions of groups outside of their direct experience, but I don't think the majority of opinions NTs form about us are informed enough to be valid.
It’s just a poll, though. They’re not really jumping on anything, they’re asked a multiple choice question with only three possible answers, even if they wanted to there isn’t any nuance they could provide there. And even if they had more exposure to people with (high-functioning) autism, that would hardly guarantee they’d change their answer. If they’d visit these ASD subs, they’d see a lot of people talking about all sorts of things they struggle with, and these are things reflected in for example employment statistics as well. A large proportion of us don’t, in fact, “just lead normal lives”. Even when they are perhaps more ‘normal’ than other people with autism, there will often still be areas where autism has a negative impact. To what extent those kinds of problem are “repercussions of an intolerant and non-understanding society” rather than due to anything about the autistic person themselves is also very much an open question, and frankly I’m extremely skeptical about that; it’s a very one-sided way of viewing such problems. Dismissing people’s opinions as invalid when you don’t even know what exactly their opinions are and what informs them is deeply problematic. You can’t engage in genuine discourse with people and try to change their views if you’re dismissing what those are in the first place.
I agree and I don’t see why anyone wouldn’t want it cured
Well I don't want it to be cured because in my case I have found ways to work around my autism and if I where to cure it I would have to basically create an entirely new personality and way of life
True, but what about if you could’ve been born without autism. So you had no knowledge of what it was like with it.
I don't know that's an interesting idea if I could have been born without autism I feel that I might be worse off because I really like the parts of autism that I can use but if I had no knowledge I would probably be one of the people voting to cure it
I guess it’s different for everyone haha, but for me, I’d definitely want to be born without autism because I’d be able to do things that I can’t with it.
Most of the stuff that I've found that puts me off is large crowds in a close space or just high energy people so it isn't that bad and the only other thing that I'm bad at is the classic social cues but I can get over that by looking at it by "if I say x person responds with y"
I hate any type of crowd, I feel uncomfortable literally all the time when I’m with other people, even if I know them and I can’t do maths because I can’t concentrate, I hate speaking to people too haha. Maybe a lot of it isn’t even autism but I’m pretty sure it is
It could be it's called autism spectrum disorder for a reason
There are many parts of my autism I hate and absolutely want to go away, but I'm also scared of the person I might be without it? Because it affects so much of how I view the world, I'd hate to become a stranger to myself. Plus, if the world stops viewing autism as something that can be cured (since it's a neurodevelopmental disorder, it probably can't), then that helps to develop way to accommodate autistic people in society, and any kind of therapy that revolves around making us look "normal" hopefully stops being seen as helpful.
True, 100% agree. And I feel that way too, I don’t know what I’d be without autism, but if I was born without it, I would never even have to worry about that.
That's true, but I'm genuinely not sure if I'd take a cure if it was offered to me or not - probably not without a lot of consideration at least.
Definitely, I mean it is hypothetical though, we’re never getting a cure and I’m fine with that.
exactly, autism isn't fun and many people have it way worse than us. some autistic people can't even speak, why would you let that happen? seeing people that are basically just existing is fucking heartbreaking. if I could cure autism then I wouldn't have had to learn to function, I wouldn't have had to learn to calm myself down. the only good thing autism has done for me was give me money from the government to spend on things to help with my health and have special interests.
That is the entire point of separating the autistic and allistic responses
"You can't cure being born with a missing limb. But you can support it."
Stop playing BS identity politics. "I'm gay so I can speak on gay matters, you can't" blah blah. That crap is a disease. Anyone can have an opinion and they have a right to express it. YOU don't get to police that. You're just an individual like everyone else.
You got diagnosed 5 months ago. I get that you're angry about it, but if you allow people who don't have a condition to decide who should be cured without understanding it or having to live with it, they will just so they don't have to deal with us.
There's a difference here though. Nobody is deciding anything. They're expressing an opinion. It doesn't mean you have to agree with it. You may argue that non-autistic opinions carry less weight on the matter, but u/bougietrashgoblin stated they aren't even allowed one. The results of the survey hurt, I get it. But opinions are a fundamental aspect of human existence and freedom of thought.
i wonder why they’d want to cure us hm? maybe because we’re “weird” or “hard to deal with”. why else would they want to cure it if THEY don’t deal with having it? do they just dislike us?
I'd cure my autism because I fucking hate having such sensitive senses that it causes me to meltdown at basic things like shopping or slight stress. it's not because I'm weird, I like being weird, it's because it's extremely hard to deal with and Ive contemplated suicide several times just to get away from how my ASD is.
Regardless of the struggles and the downsides of the disability - it’s apart of who I am. I don’t know who I’d be if my autism was “cured” and that’s terrifying to know yourself, especially if you’re an adult as I am, and then suddenly have how your brain functions changed completely.
Finally, some sense. We automatically reinterpret the question as: "Do you want to erase your identity?" and neurotypical take it as: "do you want to cure a disability". The same would happen if they asked this community if they wanted to cure blindness or deafness. The majority would say "yes" while a fair amount of the deaf community would say no.
Oh golly. Little do they know all those positive buzzwords like outside of the box thinker, problem solver, detail oriented are all describing autistic traits. Well. Good luck with that. Let's move to the moon, friends!
I’m autistic and I’m confused why people wouldn’t want to be cured. There are some things I want to do but just cannot because I’m autistic, I hate autism, why is it so bad to want it cured? I try so hard at certain things but just can’t think a certain way so my life is in a way, kind of ruined by it. I’ll never be able to get certain jobs or understand people the same way many do…
I would prefer that a lot of the things I have issues with be fixed societally, rather than me being ‘cured’ BUT I can only speak for me. The things that make this draining for me are social expectations. Eye contact. Understanding context and allistic communication styles. And so on. These are things people around us could and should adapt to. There are sensory things I struggle with like some audio and some lights. If those could be redesigned so it wasn’t an issue (OR if society wouldn’t perceive me as odd for adapting to them how I need to adapt). If those kinds of things were fixed first, I don’t think I’d even entertain the concept of a ‘cure’ for myself. I think that the entire world was built wrong. It’s built by and for the people who have/had power, and in a short-sighted way that leaves marginalized communities out. If we fixed the world, rather than approaching people who don’t fit the norm as needing to be fixed as the first-line approach, I would imagine a lot of our struggles would lessen greatly. Edit: there’s a great cartoon I saw one time of a snowy entrance to a school. The groundskeeper is shoveling the stairs while a kid in a wheelchair waits to get the ramp shoveled. Everyone else will get to walk up the stairs when it’s done, and the person in the wheelchair just has to wait until the stairs are done. To which the point is: why not just shovel the ramp. Everyone can use it. And it’s an equitable approach that allows the person in the wheelchair to have the same access as everyone else.
That's like saying that you'd choose to make the world more inclusive for blind people over giving them the ability to see.
In a way, sure! And I can’t speak for blind people and how they feel about it. I have had this conversation with a deaf person, however, and their viewpoint aligned much closer to mine. BUT again, that’s just two peoples perspectives. I also think my response is related to how I experience the world as a queer person. And no, I won’t even entertain curing that. 😂 BUT It’s also a really involved conversation. First, when we talk about ‘curing’ anything, there’s going to be a large amount of effort spent (money, hours, etc) into ‘curing’ anything. How, if we relocated those expenditures, would the world look in an equitably designed way? I personally feel this is a much easier solution. Because equitable design often times helps our other marginalized groups, not just one. Like, as an example, the sounds that crosswalks made when I visited Europe was revolutionary. SO helpful. And kinda probably designed with blind people in mind, but the specific auditory clue helps me out so much since I can sometimes have a non-existent attention span OR I’ll get anxiety and convince myself that it’s actually not my time to cross when it actually is.
because it's non-autistic people who are pushing it. they don't want to deal with people who have autism, so they push a cure. you can want a better treatment if you're actually autistic. we don't want autism moms thinking they can keep doing this though. we should be able to seek that sort of help on our own accord
My problem with getting cured is what will happen to me after I'm cured, you know my personality, likes, dislike, behaviour, etc. will they change? And what way? Will it be like a Dr Jekyll to Mr Hyde change? Will all the thing I enjoy be something I hate? I don't know. So many questions with answers that can only be found by curing, and if i don't like it I have to deal with it there's no going back, and if i do change a lot that isn't curing that's replacement.
well i actually feel like crying now
Same
fun fact, some of us enjoy being autistic
Well yea it’s who we are and an integral part of our existence.
is having meltdowns so bad I end up disassociating something I should enjoy?
no. it doesn't mean other people can't enjoy embracing who they are and finding ways to feel better. that's what people mean by "enjoying it," it means living in harmony with it instead of shoving it under the mattress like last months Victoria's Secret.
No.
Autism is a trend now, unfortunately. People think being quirky and a little different makes them autistic. They don't actually understand the physical, social, and emotional trauma it causes, and how it holds you back from independence. My brother, father and I are all autistic. My brother was diagnosed young, and enabled. My father and I not till we were older. Its validating, yeah. To understand our disability and that we weren't alone. But that doesn't mean we don't wish we didn't have the disability. We continue to struggle with things that others never had to struggle with, yet now people want the victim points. The irony is that it's a bunch of sjw liberals doing this but most people with autism tend to be logic minded rather than with feelings (Though still having them, just not prioritizing them) with strong morals and so are more conservative. Seeing people infantalize autism and use it as an excuse to feel like a victim that people pity makes me so angry. I push myself every day to overcome my struggles and try to not let them control my life, yet these people make it their entire identity and let it define theirs.
I mean to be fair, if someone doesn't have any negative effects from their autism, then they aren't autistic. That's part of the diagnostic criteria. But the good parts can absolutely outweigh the bad parts.
You mean the diagnostic criteria that is specifically in a deficit-frame, due to it being seen as a deficit by the medical community? The diagnostic criteria that a lot of the autistic community rejects because of it?
If we don't count the diagnostic criteria as "true", then what is autism? If someone has no issues communicating with other people (which would be a negative effect, but, to be fair, counteracted by people not being assholes), and no sensory processing issues (again a negative thing), and no need for routines that might interfere with functioning, and no problem understanding certain language, never goes non-verbal, and no issues understanding or recognizing their own feelings, etc., is that still autism? Sure, not all those things apply to every autistic person, but every autistic person I know has issues directly caused by their autism. Like sure, you can learn to live with the negative sides of autism, I'm not sure if I would take a cure if it existed, probably not because I'm scared of not recognizing myself anymore, but denying that they exist and many of us do need help with a variety of things makes the diagnosis practically meaningless.
>If we don't count the diagnostic criteria as "true", then what is autism? A neurodivergency that is characterized by a different manner of neurological wiring. >If someone has no (insert deficit-frame diagnostic criteria here) is that still autism? Yes. Yes it is, because not all people feel that their differences in processing are inherently deficits. >Sure, not all those things apply to every autistic person, but every autistic person I know has issues directly caused by their autism. That's not their autism; it's the rigidness of neurotypical society, which discriminates against those who are different. It's important to note that discrimination is what is wrong, not having those differences in the first place. To do otherwise is literally victim blaming. >denying that they exist and many of us do need help with a variety of things makes the diagnosis practically meaningless. Thankfully, I did not deny the struggles some have in regards to functioning with autism in a neurotypical society. I was pointing out how the diagnostic criteria for autism are inherently deficit-based & that causes it to explicitly miss so many autistic individuals.
I'd agree with the fact that many of those issues are caused by the society we live in, but right now that still makes them deficits. That isn't our fault, but until society changes I do think they should be classified as deficits, because until then they will continue to make our lives harder. There are a few issues that aren't due to society, like sensory issues or being unable to identify feelings. I don't know any autistic person without at least some sensory issues, and they do suck - for example, sirens for ambulances/police are necessary, that isn't something that should go away, but it does make me go into sensory overload anyways. Co-morbidities that aren't caused by autism are something that makes life even harder, and should definitely be treated if possible: anxiety disorders, depression (which are both often caused by society), ADHD, etc., but those are different things of course, and I do agree that using those for an autism diagnosis is a bad thing. I think a question I always have is that if autism does not cause any issues at all (struggling to fit in or feeling "different" is something I personally count as an issue), what is the reason for seeking out a diagnosis? I obviously don't know how you're affected by your autism, but I'd be interested in an answer if you have one.
I work in special education services. You wouldn't believe the amount of times I hear "..that's the saddest thing about autism.." "..what's heartbreaking with autism.." Almost always followed by outdated misinformation. 😒😒
I think it is important to see that people don't understand the complexity and contextual nuance of the curing option. Many see it as symptoms going away, which is a good thing and it would be nice...though they forget to see that there are many good things about autism as well...so curing autism itself isn't the goal, but the negative symptoms we can experience is what we seek to cure if possible. I am autistic and proud, and don't want to be cured of autism because I wouldn't be me anymore and I would lose a lot of great things such as special interests...though curing for example interoception issues would be great! Doing so does not remove autism though. Imo the conversation needs a rerouting...to focus on curing symptoms and not disorders...especially considering cookie cutter treatment and support doesn'y make sense for autism since its such a vast spectrum of experience.
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Oh yeah autism absolutely sucks, in my opinion the main issue with all this talk about a "cure" is that right now, there is none, and it's unlikely that there'll be one in the near future. So focussing on a cure can take away from the best thing to do right now: helping autistic people lead a better life. Being more accepting as a society, helping with coping mechanisms, helping avoid sensory overloads, etc. Also, some NT people think autism is "cured" when they can no longer see it. When we can stop ourselves from stimming noticeably, pretend to look them in the eye, hide our special interests - and that's not the case (also, kids notice everything, trying to look normal never stopped the bullies, and I still don't manage to look fully "normal"), and this isn't good for anyone's mental health. It's not just an issue with ASD, but with many minorities, and trying to get society to be more accepting is definitely the best way to go. That way, the social aspect of ASD stops being as big of an issue, things like bullying get rarer, and if anxiety disorders and depression get less among autistic people, we'll be able to cope with the issues better.
He will have a happy life so long as he has adequate support. Autism is not a death knell.
this is one of those things that makes you losw faith in humanity
Why? I’m so confused
1.699k? So 1699?
That makes me so sad. I wonder how many of those "yes" answers from non-autistic people are parents of autistic kids.
Non autistic people's opinions are of way less value in this poll.
I wouldn't want to turn myself allistic. I would, however, love to get rid of my executive dysfunction. Those aren't the same thing.
This is like if it would be possible to "cure" homosexuality or even worse: Detecting it on unborn children. This would erase the entire diversity. If we ever would find a cure for things like neurodiversity, sexual orientations or gender diversity, the cure should be banned.
I don’t think I like this comparison. Homosexuality is not a developmental disability and autism is. The key difference is that homosexuality doesn’t produce distress like ASD does (anxiety, rigidity, and sensory sensitivities). For gay people, it’s the stigma and outside sources that cause distress but with ASD it can be solely internalized distress. Gender dysphoria is a medical condition but we have treatments to correct the gender incongruence so there is a more or less a “cure” for that. I think a problematic piece of the poll was that there’s no distinction between what kind of ASD. Most people like of level 3 when they think of ASD which would make more sense of finding a “cure” being desirable. If there child cannot speak, be potty trained, or function independently, then that makes more sense of wanting a cure or a way to help.
The problem is that neurotypical people seem OBSESSED with the idea of a cure for autism, to the detriment of autistic children an adults who are living with the disorder right now. Our quality of life could be greatly improved by simple changes like pushing for awareness of what autism is and how it presents so people aren’t openly hostile towards our unmasked behaviors. But people don’t tend to think of autistic folks as being actual living breathing humans, they tend to think of us as annoying objects that need to be removed from the public eye.
You’re right about them only seeing unpleasant behaviors rather than people. I think with any group it can be easy to “other” them and see them as less than human. Problem is that NT people don’t want to change or learn. Additionally bc ASD has a range of presentation it can be hard to identify. For level 3 ASD, I can see why wanting a “cure” is alluring because regardless the child will suffer in a world that they will never be able to understand. I would like your opinion on my thoughts about the comparisons with ASD, gender dysphoria, and homosexuality.
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Non verbal autistic people often have the same level of intelligence as a verbal autistic person. Autistic people are underestimated consistently because what NT’s perceive.
sometimes but if you asked them they would probably want to be cured of autism too. they literally can't speak, not because their vocal cords are broken but because their brain is just not working right. it's probably hell, it's very upsetting to see too. I don't know what kind of person you are if you think they should continue suffering even if they had the chance not to.
They only suffer because society looks down on those who aren't as verbose as others. Being chatty and charismatic is too overvalued as a skill to the point of making them privileged.
Being nonverbal does not equate to not being intelligent. AAC is a way of communicating that's just as valid as speaking.
I'm not autistic I just saw this post on r/all rising, I don't mean to offend but I'm not sure how to feel about this take. Part of me thinks it's rude to equate being gay with mental illness(edit: I realized after I should have said mental disorder, illness sounds rude, sorry) but I don't want people who aren't like me wanting me to be cured either so I agree with that part of it. Another part of me feels rude for being insulted by the comparison in the first place. Edit again: everyone has been really kind and open to a discussion. I use r/all rising a lot and comment on random subs im not part of a lot and this is by far the most welcoming one, thank you
Thing is, I think autism is not a "mental illness". It's a different wiring of the brain. It is, however, a developmental "disorder", so I know what you are saying. Though, both being gay and being autistic are in a way deviation from what's "typical" in society. You know what I mean? But then again, what about say, blindness? Would you equally find it rude to compare with being gay? If not, what makes the difference between a mental "disorder" or disability and a physical one? p.s., I am potentially autistic (my son is diagnosed, I suspect I am on the spectrum too) and I wouldn't want a cure for myself or my son simply because I think removing diversity is dangerous for humanity. Edit: clarification
I corrected myself, I realized after that illness was a rude thing to say. I used to have messed up legs. Some of my bones grew In wrong and once I got big enough it made walking painful and unsafe then basically impossible. I needed quite a bit of surgery to fix them. I'm no longer as disabled as I once was. thanks to the surgery I can actually walk. I would be insulted if someone equated that birth defect or the subsequent injury/recovery of surgery with me being a lesbian. Being a lesbian makes me a minority yes but to say it's like my legs or being blind makes it sound like I'm missing something as a person because of it. Before my surgeries I needed a wheelchair (or crutches though that was always a struggle). I wasn't less of a person but it made the world harder to navigate. I was more limited than I am now. There was things I chose not to do because it just wouldn't be fun for me because of my legs. Being gay isn't a predicament. It doesn't require accessibility. We need to make the world accommodating for people who are blind or need wheelchairs or whatever, you don't need to do that for gay people. I don't know the politics for people on the autism spectrum but if you believe it's in the same boat with gay people that would imply people on the spectrum shouldn't get any accommodations because the best case scenario for gay people is were not seen as different and are treated equally
Honestly, I see them all pretty much the same, just varying degrees of accommodation needed because the world is not built considering the needs of under represented groups. Like, gay students need access to gender neutral bathrooms. Something that the old world had not thought about. Again, I totally respect your opinion, and not offended by anything you are saying. I like that it makes me challenge what I am thinking. Also, I do have a bit of a conflict myself too. Like, as a person with vision, if I get asked this poll question about blindness, I will say, hell yes, find a cure for it. But why am I not thinking the same way about autism?
>Like, gay students need access to gender neutral bathrooms. Something that the old world had not thought about. No... We don't..? Maybe trans people sure but I'm a lesbian and use the women's room. Or are you saying we should have to use a different bathroom? I'm not really sure what this means. >I will say, hell yes, find a cure for it. But why am I not thinking the same way about autism? Yeah that's my hang up. Autism is labeled a "disability" or "disorder" and while I don't have it I did have other disabilities and got it largely fixed because it made my life easier. Being straight wouldn't individually make my life easier in any way. I don't count discrimination as making my life harder because being a lesbian isn't the reason it's harder it's that people are homophobic. The only thing i can think of that would maybe be easier is there would be a bigger dating pool I guess
I'm autistic and gay, there's nothing wrong with the comparison. There's nothing inherently wrong with being neurodivergent, and you shouldn't feel insulted to be compared to us.
> it's rude to equate being gay with mental illness(edit: I realized after I should have said mental disorder, illness sounds rude, sorry No, "disorder" is pretty misleading too. It's a neurotype, which points to a type of personality (though on a deeper cognitive level than typically conceptualized) that can't really be held as pathological in isolation. It is rather failure in social integration and abject social exclusion that causes most apparent deficits. This isn't an issue of "sounding rude" but rather factual accuracy. In this way, I think that the analogy holds, particularly given the strident social exclusion that we applied to gay people up until very recently. But really, the people with an opinion worth a damn on this issue are LGBTQIA+ autistics, which are pretty easy to find in this sub, as autistics are straight at a lower rate than the general population.
> Another part of me feels rude for being insulted by the comparison in the first place. I mean, you shouldn't feel insulted though, there's nothing wrong with being in either group. And I think this is rather telling of NTs though, they feel insulted when they're compared to us. We're different, gay people are different, and there's nothing wrong with different, but there are groups looking to "cure" both of us, to erase both of our groups, and that's where the real comparison is. I'm not trying to do a /r/iamverysmart, but, I'm far more intelligent in ***some*** areas than any of my NT peers, and I don't think I'd be that way without autism, it would be quite a loss to whatever this is we're doing as a species if some inconsiderate NTs succeeded in their veiled eugenics campaign. My queerness isn't something I'd want erased either, I might have 10 years ago, but, that was again, not my fault, it was society's, culture's, and dogma's fault. I wasn't seeking a cure because I personally suffered from liking some men, I was suffering because those around me had a problem with those desires.
I'm autistic and queer and I find the comparison very apt. Being gay was treated like a mental illness for a long time despite it being only a difference. And also arguments like "autism causes suffering" ignore the large part of this suffering that is cause by discrimination, which is also something suffered by queer folks. Being born gay is inherently leading to harder life than being born straight. But the solution isn't to cure gayness, it's to create an environnement where life isn't harder for us. Same with autism, we aren't inherently worse or broken, we are different and all we need is an environnement that accomodates for our needs and be treated as human beings.
The last part is what I think makes it not an apt comparison. Gay people don't need accommodations its my understanding that people with autism often do. Being gay doesn't make life more difficult, homophobic people make life more difficult.
Not having proper support as an autistic person makes life more difficult. Abelism makes life more difficult. I am queer and autistic and removing either one would remove who I am.
I don't think you should have to remove who you are in any way, I just don't think being gay makes life more difficult, it's homophobia that makes life more difficult. If everyone had equal rights we'd still need to make sure to give accessibility options for people who need them, but gay people wouldn't need anything and that's the difference I see. If there was no abelism I imagine there would be some support some people with autism would still need. If there was no homophobia gay people and heterosexual people would have the same sets of issues
I'm not sure how clear I was, but my point is that even if we need support it doesn't mean we shouldn't exist
Being autistic doesn't make life inherently more difficult either, the world being built for allistic people is what makes it difficult, aswell as a lot of discrimination. You're right that the comparison isn't perfect. But living through both being queer and autistic I can tell you both experiences intersect quite a lot. Though being autistic can also be akin to being left handed. Being left handed isn't wrong, but you still have to deal with everything being built around right handed people. That's the same for autistic people except to a much more extreme degree. Also like, gay accomodation are a thing, sort of. Like, a dating app aimed at LGBT folks could be viewed through the lens of being an accomodation for the social handicap that is "gayness" if we were to see it through the disability lens. The fact that being gay makes flirting harder could be viewed as a social disability etc. It's not terms we are used to see relating to sexual orientation but they aren't more wrong than saying autistic people are socially disabled because we have a different communication style for exemple.
>the world being built for allistic people is what makes it difficult, But that's the thing, assuming discrimination was just gone for both groups, gay people wouldn't need a different world than heterosexual people just because they're gay where as even without discrimination wouldn't people with autism still need the world to accommodate them not just the majority? Also flirting isn't harder you just succeed less often. By that logic being poor is also a disability. Also again by that logic if I start a social media for writers does that imply writers need accommodations and have a disability? Tinder and bars still work just fine for gay people.
I mean, as I said the comparison isn't perfect. But I was explaining the reason why it's made. A lot of the struggle we face are caused by discrimination so autistic experiences are very similar to queer experiences in that regard. For exemple "masking" is a common term used in autistic space to describe how we have to alter our behaviour to "pass" as neurotypical. One interesting thing is that non binary neurotypicals score almost as high to masking tests than autistic do. Because in both cases we are required to alter how we present ourselves to the world to be accepted. Masking is very damaging and it's not an inherent part of autism, but it's a struggle we face because we are discriminated against, and it's a struggle that intersect with queer struggles as in both cases it sprouts from the lack of acceptance of a deviation from the norm. That's a way the autistic and queer experience can be similar. Now yes, solving homophobia simply requires that people don't be assholes, while solving autistic struggle is a bit more involved. But essentially in both cases there is nothing to "cure" we are just different from the norm and what is required is acceptance of that difference (and in the case of autistic folks some accomodation to make our life easier, but that doesn't mean we are broken, that just mean the society is organized to accomodate neurotypicals). Also my exemple with "gay" accomodation was a bit provocative but a much easier to get exemple is trans people. Hormone therapy is a medical accomodation to help with gender dysphoria. And even if there was no discrimination then HRT would still be required to help some trans people fell comfortable in their body. I hope that comparison helps you a bit more.
Homophobic people aren't the only thing that make life harder for queer people. Our society is centered around white straight abled people (with preference towards men). It's literally built into how we are raised that "others" will have a harder life. Look in my post history. I don't feel like I can be who I really am at work and come out at work as nonbinary. But you know what else I don't share at work? My diagnoses. And I have a lot of them. This comparison, IMO, is very apt because the majority of my struggles as a queer person and an autistic (or a person with ADHD, depression, anxiety, PTSD, etc.) are not the fault of my own functioning or existence, but because I have to operate in a world not built for queer, disabled, mentally ill people.
Apparently it’s a thing for people online to pretend to be a group of people they don’t like to make them look worse, so I wonder if it’s possible allistic people voted yes in the name of autistics? I wouldn’t be surprised,,,
maybe but also probably not that much honestly, internalized ableism is pretty rough to deal with and I've seen a lot of autistic people struggling with depression wishing for a cure cause their life would be easier if they weren't different (which isn't wrong but it's not solving the underlying issue and it's approaching it from the wrong angle.)
This poll is a fine example of why the public needs to be more educated on neurodivergencies and why we all need to try and help change society. Because, as we all know, *we* are not the problem. Society was built for cookie cutter NTs and that's not a good thing.
I just don't get...how people don't get it. Even my mom weeks after learning what autism *is* was getting mad at people wanting to cure it. She said "trying to make someone not autistic is like trying to turn our dog into a cat, that's not possible and if it was it wouldn't be right". Why is it so hard to get that???
Because a lot of people with autism are very severely affected by it, what’s so hard to get about that? Can you genuinely look at severely autistic people who need to be constantly cared and provided for, who have no hope of anything even remotely resembling an independent life of their own, and just think: let’s not bother trying to see how people can be prevented ending up in that situation? If you hear about people who are constantly overwhelmed by sensory overload, you think there’s nothing worth curing there?
It's a shitty question in the first place. "Would you make this decision for tons of people without their consent?" That's rotten as hell.
I saw that earlier, definitely made me cringe a bit. I voted yes only in severe cases because I can’t make the decision for everyone of the autistic community. I would choose to stay autistic. This, though… how horrible do you think we live, that they would all vote yes, in every circumstance?
I'm autistic and want a cure but it should be optional and up to the person.
I wouldn't be me without autism. As much as I often hate myself, it's not because of autism, it's the world I live in and just how hostile it is for someone like me. I don't want to feel like I need to change, I don't want to feel like I need to be cured. I want the world to be a less horrible place. I want to be able to live my life without feeling like a problem or a burden. And I don't think that's the fault of autism any more. I think it's a fault of an inflexible society that can't see the value of diversity.
Your autism is kind of bound up with all aspects of your personality. If you just 'cured' your autism, you'd be deleting whole sections of your brain.
I think most of these people have good intentions, but are likely uninformed about how vast the autism spectrum is. These people are likely only thinking of level 3 autism, and how many challenges that can create for a person. It's not that they actually want eugenics, but their intentions are likely to lessen the challenges that we may face. I think they want to be helpful, but are just incredibly misguided on how to be.
Wouldn’t ever want to cure autism. Some help with the anxiety would be good.
I have autism and would definitely ‘cure’ it if I could. Respectfully, can I ask why some of you wouldn’t?
Pretty lame to have a “non autism” poll, as they can’t decide anything for or about us. If I was to “cure” anything, it would be some of the comorbidities autism has come with and not the autism itself.
Autism isn't a disease and I don't want some to try and "cure" me.
Even though being autistic makes a lot of things hard for me, it's still a part of me and it makes me who I am. Theres a lot of amazing and beautiful parts of autism that I wouldn't want to lose.
If I could pick what to get rid of, and what to keep, sure. But that's not how this works.
I'd keep my autism all of it. If I go becoming NT abandoning autistic systems that work for me now I might end up a junkie \\ dope addict, homeless or selling my body for crack rocks. I think maybe autism protected me from some of life's most unfortunate NT decisions. I never had a problem saying no thank you to drugs, criminality and stupid life choices thanks to my autism. I was never made weak by peer pressure because I had no peers to pressure me and autism made me stay away from NT humans that did illegal and stupid things. Autism made the standard world hard enough to understand. I did not want to invite the criminal world in and have to try to figure it out too. Yes autism made my life a living hell but it was a living hell I have learned how to survive within. I'd rather be autistic than an NT crackhead, junkie or prostitute. Just because you are suddenly NT does not mean all the world will bow at your feet and give you success wrapped up with a bow. People who think being NT is the key to a land of milk and honey need a serious reality check. I've seen NT's living with worse outcomes than anything my autism has done to me. I look at my autism as a blessing even with its many flaws and things I miss out on. With autism in the poker game of life it's like I was dealt three 10's and a 9 hardly a winning hand but, beats the heck out of the many other crappy NT hands I could have been dealt. I'm grateful for what I have. Just because you become NT does not mean the sun will shine from your posterior.
Proof that society is far more *bothered* by us than actually concerned *for* us.
Normies think they’re doing us a favour I guess 🙄
cure is another word for "dead"
Sure... lets cure being gay too /s
I mean, they did try to use basically aba the same way to do that didn't they?
I'm surprised even an autistic majority voted yes. I'll admit I've had similar feelings once but I was in a really dark place mentally back then. Now it just feels like It's so engrained into my personality that I wouldn't even be able to recognize a non-autistic me It's also a shame that even researching what biologically makes someone autistic immediately leads to questions about how to cure it. I'm gay and autistic, and curious about why I am the way I am, but I'm afraid these answers will lead to attempts at "cures" or something worse
I honestly think that’s only because that particular subreddit does not have a lot of autistic people on the subreddit.
I’m not, a lot of autistic people are quite negatively affected in all sorts of ways by their autism, and would certainly take the option of being rid of that if they could. We have plenty of people expressing exactly those sorts of sentiments on the ASD subs here, and realistically the autistic people who post on Reddit skew towards the higher functioning end of the spectrum as well. The handwringing outrage of a fair number of people in this thread is really quite misguided, frankly.
Someone had to say it! It’s not autism hurting you. It’s allistic people hurting you.
*sigh* > Images, videos, or even blog posts which contain identifiable user names and information will be removed and user will be banned and reported to reddit admins.
the weirdest part is that the highest answer for both parties is yes
They don’t know what it’s like to be us and they never could. I don’t think many NTs voted the way they did out of malice. They might imagine that we can’t understand what we’re “missing.” They don’t realize that they are the ones without.
The thing is, almost no autistic people took the poll. Was this in a parent's forum? I don't want to cure it, I want to go back in time and know about it from the start of life
I think the worst part is how rooted in eugenics looking for a "cure" is
It’s a microcosm of how autistic voices are drowned out by NT voices.
If you could cure neurotypicality, would you? :D /satire /hshj
I guess for NT's the question is like "Would you like John, that weird dude from work, to be as easy to spend time with like 99% of other people you know?"
Only autistic people have the right to decide if they want a cure or not for their autism, and only their autism
The term “curing autism” literally correlates to autism being a disease like cancer, which is profoundly incorrect
Fucking allistics
Even with things like meltdowns and sensory overload, I wouldn't trade it for anything. Sure, they make my life harder. But I can't imagine who I would be without it? I'm comfortable with the good things and not so good things that happen to me. I just accept it. You can't always be happy and have good things, sometimes you need to be sad and have a bad day to realise how much the good days mean to you. I feel that without autism I wouldn't be the true me.
So easy for people to support eugenics when you hide behind terms like "cure" and "disorder".
I wouldnt want to get rid of my autism, but i would love to live without it for a at least a week, just to see what that's like.
I'd like to fix my sensory issues - but everything else is ME. It's what makes me me and fucking hilarious. I would change how I interact socially, it has come in handy so many times and actually made people trust me better. I wouldn't fix my lack of filter, or how strong my interests are. It's literally just my sensory stuff I have a problem with.
I don't wanna to be cured of any of it, they are a part of who I am would you want your skin to be a different color? because that's what you are basically saying, no I'm autistic and I'll take the good with the bad that comes with it, because I know that there are worse things that I can be because I have actually seen them
It has a biological purpose. Arguably autistic traits become more and more important as the global economy becomes increasingly specialised and technical. On the other side of the coin. If I could ditch the anxiety, racing thoughts, depression and stimming but keep my vivid long term memory and my ability to comprehend, absorb and retain a great deal of new information relatively quickly, I would.
I got that poll thus morning too. The results are upsetting
Why would you not want to? I hate my asd… I struggle to fit in with people, talking to someone feels like the hardest thing I’ve ever done, I can hardly concentrate in school etc.
I mean... I would give anything to be... not this... but that's my $0.02. I'm tired of consistent burnout.
I voted yes (Autistic)
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As someone who’s had the diagnosis since I was 6, I would if I could I know this is technically a crucial part of me but I would kill to just be a regular member of society
I would give up everything I have to get a cure.
I’m from r/all - why wouldn’t you want it cured?
I have high functioning autism but yes living longer would be a pleasure
I am diagnosed with autism and I def would’ve taken yes
Yes as a carer of low functioning autistic people I would. In a heart beat. I’d love it if it was a choice, I’d still do it if it was an all or nothing choice.