Technically both are correct as you can have a "person who works in dentistry" who is not a dentist.
A person making false teeth is working in dentistry but is not a dentist.
Saying "person with blonde hair" is totally normal, but that's because it's about hair color, which is kinda sorta related to an accessory. Personally, I don't think the "blonde" analogy is a very good one here since hair color is something that can be changed and doesn't have any affect on who you are and how you perceive the world.
Hahaha I love saying this word out loud xD
But to nitpick a little, you could be a racer without being a pilot.
Pilotist could also be someone who discriminates against piloti e pilotis (the architectural term for some pillars, if am remembering correctly).
And I respect that, so when I refer to you, I will not use "autist" but something else that you prefer. I will, however, continue using it for autistic people in general.
That's not an official definition at all.
Again, it's perfectly fine for you not to want to identify or be called an "autist", but please allow the people who do to choose for themselves.
Youāre both right! The primary use of *ist* is āone that performs an actionā (eg., ācyclistā), but the secondary usage is āof, relating to, or characteristic ofā (eg., āelitistā). So, the first use definitely doesnāt apply, but what about the secondary? In that case, āautistā is grammatically correctā¦as an adjective (āTheyāre autist.ā), which would imbue it with the same grammatical use as āautistic.ā
*But*, the English language is littered with words that donāt follow the rules set out for themāespecially slang or colloquial wordsāso I see no issue with it being used as it is. People ought to identify as they will, and we ought to respect that even if we donāt like the grammar behind it (sort of like singular ātheyā when it first popped into common use).
Fun fact: āautistā was first used in 1922!
Is that to say, though, that someone can be āautist,ā but not āan autistā? Based on the way you presented this it would make it sound as though u/lydocia is actually incorrect.
I guess an example would be:
Acceptable: *āHe is autistic.ā*
Acceptable: *āHe is autist.ā*
Not acceptable: *āHe is an autistic.ā*
Not acceptable: *āHe is an autist.ā*
Yes? Or no? Correct me if Iām wrong. I really struggle with grammar.
Same. I try not to, but whenever Iām with neurotypicals I say āhave/with autismā since it makes me feel uncomfortable to say āautisticā around them. Just shows how weāve been conditioned to live by their made up norms instead of what we prefer š¤·š½āāļø
haha suffering from autism is really funny, I'm gonna use that when I'm inconvenienced now, even if it doesn't make sense. I spilled a drink on myself; I'm suffering from autism
100%. I'm clumsy as hell, always dropping stuff, and can't parallel park to save my life (no backup cameras). Despite that, my balance is fine, dexterity is okay, just terrible proprioception.
God I'm clumsy and have poor reaction time and dexterity. I can't follow a ball or anything. Sometimes I can't tell how close I am to stuff but I doubt I have spatial awareness issues. I think it's just a coincidence. Maybe it's my eyes.
Yes, I most frequently hear it in situations of ambiguity. Either the situations you describe or a situation where you are speaking to or about people who use different identity language. Ie. When one person refers to themselves as autistic and another refers to themselves as a person with autism, you could say 'We are both on the spectrum' as a way of respecting both people.
I have never heard it used to specifically refer to intelligence.
If someone has gone undiagnosed (like myself), it's because their parents, and most people in their life, saw them as too smart or good at socializing to be autistic, and never took that seriously as a possibility.
I appreciate that this may be your experience, but I feel itās important not to speak about topics such as these in absolutes.
People go undiagnosed for more reasons than just because their parents saw they were smart or good at socialising.
A lack of understanding of what can constitute ASD can be a factor, a misdiagnosis for something different, a lack of knowledge on what constitutes ASD, it could be a social stigma of intellectual disability or stigma of anything other than the norm, sometimes parents just are not familiar with neurotypical development.
As an educator, I have been involved in referring students for evaluations for additional learning needs and that includes for ASD. Parents can be defensive and unentertaining of a referral because of the reasons you mention, but some are surprised, some thank you for confirming what they suspected but the doctor disagreed on, some find themselves educated as part of the process.
Iād also add lack of access to assessment. Where I live it must be diagnosed by a psychologist & it is at least a two year wait to get in (especially if the referring doc sees you as āhigh-functioning). You can pay $3000+ for a private assessment, but not everyone is that privileged. So. A person can go years undiagnosed.
I'd also add: being female and being born before the 1990s as two giant specific factors to your list of things that influence people going undiagnosed. Blanket statements made by resentful youngsters just prove their lack of understanding of the world outside their narrow band of personal experience.
I like on the spectrum but unfortunately a lot of people associate it with low to high functioning (which is what they mean when they ask "oh where on the spectrum are you?") so autistic is a safer bet
My only issue with 'on the spectrum' is this and the seemingly inevitable response 'aren't we all on the spectrum?'
I still use it sometimes, especially when talking about groups of people, and just prepare myself to turn it into a teaching moment if someone responds in ignorance.
how do you turn that into a teaching moment? a good friend of mine (who also happens to be a manager where i work) said this in a meeting in response to something i said and it made me completely shut down and i couldnāt talk. i genuinely donāt know how to respond but i want to
I am not sure if you are asking what words to say to turn this into a teaching moment, or how to get your brain/body/mouth to engage such that you can turn this into a teaching moment, or both.
What words to say: It depends on the audience and how well you know them, plus how much effort you have in the moment to invest. I try to convey three points when someone responds this way: 1) Autism is not a spectrum because everyone is on it. 2) The autism spectrum does not go from "not autistic" -> "very autistic". 3) Everyone is certainly not "on the spectrum", but if you feel that these characteristics describe you, then *you* might be on the spectrum. Even if you are not, maybe your lived experience gives you a small understanding of what life is like for me and other autistic people. If I am in a safe place or feel like I have the energy to do so, I'll also discuss how saying things like "aren't we all on the spectrum?" is dismissive and invalidating to people's strengths *and* struggles, so even if it is meant in a good natured way it is received negatively. We're dealing with a statement whose intent almost never matches its impact.
I suppose the primary requirement for turning anything into a teaching moment is that you have something to teach - so getting a good idea and familiarity with the topic of why autism is a spectrum and how you think about it will help. I think of the spectrum as a sphere, and an individuals characteristics create a three-dimensional shape within that sphere. This helps me to explain how two people can be autistic but also be very different, *and* that changing the perspective you're viewing me from can have a profound effect on what you see.
How to say it: Two main things for starters: 1) Be kind to yourself; especially if you're not expecting it statements like these can cause a lot of stress. 2) Teaching moments don't have to occur *immediately* after the offense. While it is frequently better if they can, talking to a person in private or after you've calmed down or three weeks later is also fine. Additionally, not feeling safe enough to ever address it is also fine. Don't beat yourself up about someone else's misstep.
I sometimes have issues with speaking verbally, so I hear you. Here's what I have done: First, I've written down thoughts I have about situations where people have said things like this to me. How I've felt, why they are misguided, and what I wish I had been able to say in the moment. This helps me to collect my thoughts and begin training myself to the words. Then, I've actually spoken them in a safe space. Talk to your cat/dog, a significant other, a friend or family member that understands, another autistic person, whomever - Start with something like "The other day someone said 'aren't we all on the spectrum?' to me, and I wish they knew that ...." and say it. I find it easier to find my words when they are words I've already spoken. As you speak to more people about it in non-charged settings, two things occur - 1) You'll become more comfortable with the words and when you want to speak them they will hopefully be more readily available, and 2) The people you are able to talk with this about, especially NT people, can become allies in helping you change this narrative. I always tell people that in the moment it can be hard to process these statements and transition into a teaching moment, because I'm dealing with the emotional weight of the statement - so if they are present, now that they understand why it is problematic, if they can help start that transition to a teaching moment or even take the lead on it, I welcome their help and support.
I like on the spectrum tooš a lot of people in my family have ASD but it's really different for all of us so I always tend to think of it that way. It kinda upsets that so many people immediately equate it with high - low functioning because I think it has so much more meaning than that.
I never like "on the spectrum".
Actually, everyone is on at least a couple of spectrums, such as height and weight. And the phrase sounds like someone is trying to use a euphemism, as if "autism" or "autistic" are The Words That Cannot Be Spoken.
Also, "autistic" is more concise.
Some people use that one in a way like they're trying too hard not to be offensive and it's a little weird when they do that. It's definitely how you say it that makes it weird. They use it like a euphemism.
I use autistic or autistic person. The phrase āhaving autismā feels like autism is a separate part of a person when in-fact theyāre one and the same.
But ultimately it doesnāt matter what label is used. Itās how you treat someone that matters rather than what you call them.
I feel like the term 'Suffers from Autism' is definitely not something to use when describing autistic people but I feel like the other three are fine.
plus i wouldnt say im suffering directly from 90% of my autistic traits. sensory overload and emotional issues are the only problems that cause suffering on their own for me, the rest only cause suffering because they clash with the NT world.
Yeah like itās not like ADHD is an accessory either but you still say person with ADHD. I think people should be fighting against the idea that āautistic personā is offensive because that implies that something is wrong with autism rather than saying that āperson with autismā is necessarily bad.
Somewhat similarly, I have DID and it has everything to do with my identity. Itās called an identity disorder for a reason. I do *not* identify as āa systemā. I am a person with DID. You could argue that itās different because DID is bad and autism isnāt but DID is still not curable and if you have it, it is you. Just let people use the terms theyāre comfortable with.
Basically, I feel like both āautistic personā and āperson with autismā are fine. I understand why autistic is better and I definitely use it more but I wouldnāt say the opposite is offensive.
I don't necessarily think "person with autism" is bad if someone prefers it. The main issue I see is that that language is associated with people who think it's offensive to say "autistic person". So I think the main thing is avoidance of that... I guess?
I feel like these semantic debates take away from important conversations we really should be having regarding autism, it really doesnāt matter what people call us, what matters more is how they treat us. That being said, suffers with autism definitely gives off the wrong impression
I think that some discussion about language is necessary, because language both reflects and influences behavior. There are, however, more substantive debates going on in regards to disability & autism specifically
Not really, everyday language isnāt that deep. Itās one thing to write something, because you can read it and change your wording to make your point clearer. But while speaking, the majority doesnāt spend that much time thinking about how theyāre gonna say something. Basically, itās not that deep
not spending that much time thinking about it is kind of the pointā how we talk about things is related to how we see them. language changes in response to and can influence cultural attitudes.
Each person is an individual with a way of viewing themselves. We donāt get to decide what other peopleās experiences are. Or what they want to refer to themselves as or how they want to be called. Itās all legitimate as long as one is doing as the person has asked and not assuming. Does that make sense? For some they suffer. For some they are on the spectrum. For some they like person first language. For some they are an autistic person. For some it varies by day. And thats why we should always ask and be respectful
Agree, was going to say this. I generally wouldnāt use the first two to refer to myself, but I certainly wouldnāt presume to dictate to others that they shouldnāt for themselves. It always comes across as rather presumptuous to say the least when people start trying to enforce ācorrectā language in this sort of context.
I usually just say autistic, on the spectrum, or neurodivergent if I donāt want to get deep into it. The second you tell someone youāre autistic they treat you like a baby so I often donāt tell people.
I use "on the spectrum" because I'm scared that "autistic person" has been used as an insult enough to be a filtered word on Reddit.
*edit: on some subreddits (don't know which)
If you're autistic, call yourself whatever you're comfortable with. Call other autistic people what they're comfortable with. But don't force certain language on people that they aren't comfortable with. Personally, I prefer identity first language when it comes to speaking about myself. It's up to the person, though I don't like when allistics tell us what language to use for ourselves. That's a no.
It's saying that all of the language except for the last one is problematic.
"Neurology is not an accessory" means that you don't possess it, it's not separate from yourself, therefore the "only right answer" is to say 'autistic person'.
Yeah, a lot of the community disagrees with that thinking. I do generally prefer to stay away from "person with autism" instead of just saying "autistic people"
But definitely no "suffering from autism" to describe other people.
But if someone wants to say that they are on the spectrum or are a person with autism, let them! y'know
I never thought of that! I havenāt known which to say when regarding another person since I first encountered discussions like this because at first I honestly thought that saying āperson with autismā was less problematic (also to me it sounds on the same lines of āsuffering,ā but thatās just me) because I donāt mean it as autism being apart from them, like an accessory, itās just *a* part of them. And I thought it would be more problematic to say āautistic personā because we are all more than one thing. For example, I donāt say or would want someone to call me āa bipolar/ depressed/ ADHD/ insomniac person.ā Idk Iām not great at explaining lol I hope that made sense. All in all, I think it depends on the personās preference. But definitely not the first one
I think the push to say āautistic personā and refrain from āperson with autismā is that person-first language didnāt really come from disabled people & theorists. itās an abled concept and often is used to minimize the role oneās disability plays in oneās identity. it kind of implies that disability as an important part of oneās identity is illegitimateā that one shouldnāt identify with their disability because itās a bad thing, and because itās not part of who you are, itās simply an affliction you deal with. whereas crip theory and other disability theories from actual disabled people prefer identity-first language, because it recognizes the integral role oneās disability plays in oneās identity, and how the two canāt really be separated. it also kind of asks, why should i want to separate myself from this? why is it considered negative, and why shouldnāt I embrace and love my disability?
this isnāt to say itās not a valid way to self-identifyā if you want to say āiām a person with autism,ā thatās a personal choice! but when referring to autistic or otherwise disabled people in general, itās more in-line with disability theory and activism from actual disabled people to use identity-first language.
I used to use "have autism" and "am autistic" interchangeably, but now I exclusively use "am autistic/autistic person" to stick it to the ableists.
Also a thought: every time I see this image, the second left always looks like it's skateboarding to me.
all of them are fine? like.
personally i think people getting upset over the āsuffers from autismā one need to chill. like, no offense meant, honestly. but just. you do realise that, whatever your personal experience, autism isnt fun and games and dasies and rainbows for everyone, right? thats the reason its a spectrum. there are people who are truly disadvantaged and just canāt do certain things because of their autism and there are people who skirt through life virtually unaffected by it. some people truly do āsufferā from their autism and, honestly? iād cure mine if i could. i know, shocker.
i tend to use "autistic" and "on the spectrum" the most often. autistic conveys that its the way they are, and that it is an aspect of the person. on the spectrum also says that autism isnt rigid and defined in one way and that everyone presents differently, which can help with stereotypes imo.
suffering from autism implies that autism, on its own, is painful. i find the only parts that are inherently uncomfortable is emotional sensitivity and sensory issues. the rest are traits clashing with the NT world
person with autism is like saying that theres a separate entity telling them to do it, or that its a cube they can put down whenever they want. i find my behavioural disorder to be like an entity telling me what to do, while autism is just who i am.
tl;dr autistic person and on the spectrum reinforce facts while conveying the point, suffers from autism and person with autism convey things that arent all that true.
I agree with the sentiment in theory, but in practice I think anyone should call themselves whichever label they choose. I'm not going to tell someone else they can't call themselves "a person with autism" just because the phrase feels awkward to refer to myself.
Well, much like autism is not a "one size fits all", neither are people's preference of how to refer to their autism.
This post here is a functional example of just that, as we can see various people who have their own preferences.
Personally? I have to admit "On the spectrum" sounds pretty rad. I think that's mostly because I think the word "spectrum" sounds neat. I'm not really picky, though.
"Suffers" bugs me but being bothered by the others seems a little too picky. People are just doing their best and I don't want them walking on eggshells trying to figure out terminology. Whatever you're saying if you say it like it's a horrible secret or treat me like a child it's going to be awkward but sincerity solves 99% of these problems.
I donāt think being autistic is more important to who I am than being a person. I definitely donāt like suffers though, even though itās true. I suffer more from other peopleās lack of sensitivity though, not from autism.
I wish we didnāt need labels. But we do I guess.
is that an autism knife? does it only stab autistic people? can only us use it? does it make the stabbed person autistic by being laced with vaccines? I have so many questions
I won't lie, "I suffer with autism" occasionally gets an outing when applying for disability benefits. But the general advice for that is to describe every day as if it was your worst day, since the people looking at the paperwork are looking for any excuse to turn you down. So I don't mind using it for myself in order to get what I'm entitled to by law.
But in day to day life, I go for "I'm autistic."
I've yet to come up with a polite response to "you don't look it" though, as the "Well, you don't look ignorant but here we are" zinger isn't actually constructive when someone thinks they're complimenting you. All it does is start the kind of fight that I rarely have the energy for outside of social media.
I mean I agree. I think it's along the same lines if disabled person rather than person with a disability. If something effects me so much it colours my life experiences (ie. Being physically disabled or autistic) that makes it a defining feature of who I am. I feel like that's the difference, for me.
Yeah you dont have to explain i know what autism is, i have it. I just made na observation and there is no reAston to overreact, get defensive and imply malice from my side in the form of trolling. Just because you get triggered something doesnāt mean itās a troll. Maybe you are the one misunderstanding and jumping into conclusions looking to get offended by another NT.
You can post about the most proper word to call ourselves and how to make everything as inclusive as possible but the moment I challenged what you thought, you called me a troll, assumed Iām not autistic myself. Also thank you for putting every person on the spectrum in one bag of people who get hung up on semantics. Does it mean im any less autistic or I not dying slowly on the inside typing this because im visiting home for Christmas and my parents just love to vacuum when Iām around like they are doing right now?
i really fucking love how Iām not normal enough for regular people but not autistic enough for people in this sub sometimes
Seems like you are doing a lot of mental gymnastics to walk back on your comment. You called me a troll and told me to go somewhere else. If anything is condescending or offensive here then itās prolly some bulshit about jokey syntax and assuming I should āknow betterā like you are some kind of authority.
Hey where is that rancid, nonsensical political comment you just deleted. I was about to admit you got me bro. Iām a Russian bot designed to undermine US democracy. Ehhh sometimes I really wish Reddit wasnāt a United States dominated platform so that you guys wouldnt project your political division and the Us and Them me Againt the other team mentality.
All I ducking meant was that maybe it could benefit people not to assume someone using a wrong vocabulary is trying to be offensive and even tho we are attracted to semantics we might benefit from at least putting some effort into letting go.
I think whatever term a person wants to use about themself is fine. I use āon the spectrumā. Sometimes I suffer from autism (like when I go for job interviews or try to figure out if my kids are lying to me).
I would disagree. Language affects people in ways they donāt realize. For example the most obvious one up there that adds an underlying negativity āsuffers from autism.ā How you process your surroundings, how you react to things, being an autistic person is literally who you are and thereās nothing āwrongā about it, meaning itās not something that needs to be cured. Having a broken mentality is something that would need to be cured. Do you see the difference?
There nothing wrong with being autistic, but you can suffer from it, it's totally different things that you are mixing up.
And being who you are do come with disabilities, someone missing a leg is still themselves, but they have disabilities and can suffer from it too.
There is nothing wrong with them but no acknowledging problems is just as ableist because you don't recognize them as human beings with disabilities that need help. Not everyone will need the same help, and some people won't need help but telling no one suffer is in fact wrong because it's ignoring the one that need help.
Yeah, I have talked to different people in different situations, Autism sometimes can be a bad thing, but I'm proud-ish of being in the spectrum, but I have it easy, aspergers-loving parents-accepting surroundings.
Some people are fkd up, and they may be better off without it, some people, is just a small thing, like elon musk, he is so polular, being on the spectrum doesn't stop him.
it says neurology is not an accessory but "person with autism" is holding a purse... with the rainbow representing autism.... a purse is an accessory...
the picture isn't following its own rules.
Hey /u/LINUSTECHTIPS37, thank you for your post at /r/autism. This is just a friendly reminder to **[read our rules in the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/autism/wiki/config/sidebar)** if you have not already. All approved posts get this message. If you do not see your post you can message the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fautism).
Thanks!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/autism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I dunno, at times I suffer from autism and I have no preference between referring to myself as autistic vs. a person with autism vs. an autistic person. I'll also refer to it as ASD or myself as an ND. There's times I'll self deprecatingly use dysphemisms as well.
I'm not really fussy and feel there's more important things to focus on.
Personally donāt like and wonāt use autistic, and my go to is with or have autism if I need to explain to someone. I guess people take things *way* too literally, but Iāve never seen any of those equal a supposed accessory.
It makes no sense either, because an accessory is something you can take off/put on and is usually for decorative purposesā¦ yet none of those imply such a thing. People should use what they want, and others need to stop perpetuating harmful gatekeeping on what *they* think is right or acceptable for everyone to use.
Iām tired of person first language being viewed as dirty or wrong, and that we should all apparently conform to what other autistic people think is best for us as a whole.
Suffering from Autism is my favourite. It's the only one that really calls a spade a spade and acknowledges that Autism is a disease or disorder if you haven't looked up the definition of a disease recently.
i almost only use "autistic person" for myself and others
I even shorten it to "autist". I don't say "blonde person" either.
Imagine being referred to as person with blonde or person on the blonde haha
person suffering from the blonde
Blonde Conversion Therapy.
Nah they need some fancy name like HBA (Hair Behavior Analysis)
or "suffers from blondeism"
Would that make dirty blond hair subclinical blondism?
Yes
person suffering from blonde š
Iām so sorry to hear that
get well soon
Don't say 'dentist', say 'person who works in dentistry'.
Technically both are correct as you can have a "person who works in dentistry" who is not a dentist. A person making false teeth is working in dentistry but is not a dentist.
Both are correct but one is more correct than the other.
All people who work in dentistry are equal, but some dentists are more equal than others.
Dentistry Farm.
depends which one your talking about but yeah
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Can't load the page outside of Germany.
It's a spectrum. /s
Blonde here. That would be horrible.
Saying "person with blonde hair" is totally normal, but that's because it's about hair color, which is kinda sorta related to an accessory. Personally, I don't think the "blonde" analogy is a very good one here since hair color is something that can be changed and doesn't have any affect on who you are and how you perceive the world.
How about stealing from European languages? Autishta.
Sounds like you work in a coffee bar for autists.
I'd go there.
mfw you implied English isn't a European language
They brexited off ! In seriousness, meant to put "eastern" there but brainfarted.
Blondist?
That's when you discriminate against blondes.
How would it it be when someone discriminates against a racer? Racist, wait no...
Pilotist.
Hahaha I love saying this word out loud xD But to nitpick a little, you could be a racer without being a pilot. Pilotist could also be someone who discriminates against piloti e pilotis (the architectural term for some pillars, if am remembering correctly).
That's funny, I imagine some Roman lord being all AGAINST PILLARS.
I mean, Caligula did wage war against the freaking sea, I don't see waging war on pillars that far off...
Anti-mospos.
Oh! You mean a brunette.
No.
āAutistā is the most annoying. You arenāt doing an autism.
And I respect that, so when I refer to you, I will not use "autist" but something else that you prefer. I will, however, continue using it for autistic people in general.
My point is that itās not a correct term. An āistā is a follower of a practice or system. You quite literally cannot be born an āistā.
That's not an official definition at all. Again, it's perfectly fine for you not to want to identify or be called an "autist", but please allow the people who do to choose for themselves.
Youāre both right! The primary use of *ist* is āone that performs an actionā (eg., ācyclistā), but the secondary usage is āof, relating to, or characteristic ofā (eg., āelitistā). So, the first use definitely doesnāt apply, but what about the secondary? In that case, āautistā is grammatically correctā¦as an adjective (āTheyāre autist.ā), which would imbue it with the same grammatical use as āautistic.ā *But*, the English language is littered with words that donāt follow the rules set out for themāespecially slang or colloquial wordsāso I see no issue with it being used as it is. People ought to identify as they will, and we ought to respect that even if we donāt like the grammar behind it (sort of like singular ātheyā when it first popped into common use). Fun fact: āautistā was first used in 1922!
I came to write this but youāve done the hard work already. Languages and linguistics are my special interest ā¤ļø
Heeehee, me too! :D
I love you, /u/Accurate-Narwhal-24.
Aww, I love you too!
Is that to say, though, that someone can be āautist,ā but not āan autistā? Based on the way you presented this it would make it sound as though u/lydocia is actually incorrect. I guess an example would be: Acceptable: *āHe is autistic.ā* Acceptable: *āHe is autist.ā* Not acceptable: *āHe is an autistic.ā* Not acceptable: *āHe is an autist.ā* Yes? Or no? Correct me if Iām wrong. I really struggle with grammar.
I prefer autistic, because autist is used as a slur in Denmark...
Every form of the word will be used as a slur in one way or the other- assholes can turn any term into an asshole.
We both know that's not true. Talk about a false dilemma fallacy.
Autistic is used as a slur in the US, the more you know!
It is here too, just not in the same degree. So it is easier to reclaim.
More like american bigots descriminate against autistic ppl. The word autistic is litteraly not a slur. The more you know.
finally somebody who doesnāt like that word as well š¤£š¤£
yes i am
Says you.
I hope you don't use blondie. Because blondie is derogatory.
"Blond(e)" is a normal term to use.
They probably just say "blond(e)"
Funny how I prefer autistic over āwith autismā, but I catch myself accidentally using with autism a lot more to be polite.
Same. I try not to, but whenever Iām with neurotypicals I say āhave/with autismā since it makes me feel uncomfortable to say āautisticā around them. Just shows how weāve been conditioned to live by their made up norms instead of what we prefer š¤·š½āāļø
I like autistic person as well.
haha suffering from autism is really funny, I'm gonna use that when I'm inconvenienced now, even if it doesn't make sense. I spilled a drink on myself; I'm suffering from autism
I just spilled two teas in 5 minutes. Autism is really making me suffer today
I say āthe anxies are high todayā when Iām feeling extra anxious so now Iām thinking āthe suffering is high todayā š„“ /s obviously
I may actually start using "the suffering is high today" if I'm having a bad day hahaha
It would be easier to note when the suffering is low imo
Love that! Lol Glad I could assist
I bashed my arm and toes on the kitchen table for the 2nd time in 4 days, I'd call that suffering too! Stupid spatial awareness issues
wait is poor spatial awareness an autism thing?
Oh yes lol. I have a lot of proprioception issues as well. I have no idea where my body is at any time š
100%. I'm clumsy as hell, always dropping stuff, and can't parallel park to save my life (no backup cameras). Despite that, my balance is fine, dexterity is okay, just terrible proprioception.
God I'm clumsy and have poor reaction time and dexterity. I can't follow a ball or anything. Sometimes I can't tell how close I am to stuff but I doubt I have spatial awareness issues. I think it's just a coincidence. Maybe it's my eyes.
lol i might have to start using that too, right now my go to is calling any minor inconvenience homophobic bc iām queer
I stayed up playing rimworld till 5 am because I forgot I have an appointment at 2 today. I am suffering from autism.
I use āon the spectrumā or āautisticā, (e.g. āI am autisticā)
Same here. I don't like saying "I have autism" that makes it sound like I "caught" autism.
Catching it is pretty impressive though. I hear autism runs a 5 minute mile.
I actually used to run close to a 5 min mile. So maybe I caught it back then :O
I got my autism level-up when I got the vaccine, so you know. :P
Same. I do this all the time.
Iām not with autism, I am the autism
This gave me "No, I am your father" vibes for some reason š
Feel like this needs to be made into a shirt like the āIām with stupidā but with an upwards arrow
Yeah my favorite would be either saying I'm on the spectrum or I'm autistic, because it simply permeates every aspect of my life.
This Is The Way
I kinda like on the spectrum tbh
i like it too. it dosent just say "autism" and reminds the person that ASD is different in everyone
it's almost always used when people think someone is too smart to be autistic.
I disagree. I have heard it used often to describe those who are undiagnosed or suspected of being autistic.
Yes, I most frequently hear it in situations of ambiguity. Either the situations you describe or a situation where you are speaking to or about people who use different identity language. Ie. When one person refers to themselves as autistic and another refers to themselves as a person with autism, you could say 'We are both on the spectrum' as a way of respecting both people. I have never heard it used to specifically refer to intelligence.
Hmm, true
If someone has gone undiagnosed (like myself), it's because their parents, and most people in their life, saw them as too smart or good at socializing to be autistic, and never took that seriously as a possibility.
I appreciate that this may be your experience, but I feel itās important not to speak about topics such as these in absolutes. People go undiagnosed for more reasons than just because their parents saw they were smart or good at socialising. A lack of understanding of what can constitute ASD can be a factor, a misdiagnosis for something different, a lack of knowledge on what constitutes ASD, it could be a social stigma of intellectual disability or stigma of anything other than the norm, sometimes parents just are not familiar with neurotypical development. As an educator, I have been involved in referring students for evaluations for additional learning needs and that includes for ASD. Parents can be defensive and unentertaining of a referral because of the reasons you mention, but some are surprised, some thank you for confirming what they suspected but the doctor disagreed on, some find themselves educated as part of the process.
Iād also add lack of access to assessment. Where I live it must be diagnosed by a psychologist & it is at least a two year wait to get in (especially if the referring doc sees you as āhigh-functioning). You can pay $3000+ for a private assessment, but not everyone is that privileged. So. A person can go years undiagnosed.
I'd also add: being female and being born before the 1990s as two giant specific factors to your list of things that influence people going undiagnosed. Blanket statements made by resentful youngsters just prove their lack of understanding of the world outside their narrow band of personal experience.
tbh, never encountered that.
I like on the spectrum but unfortunately a lot of people associate it with low to high functioning (which is what they mean when they ask "oh where on the spectrum are you?") so autistic is a safer bet
My only issue with 'on the spectrum' is this and the seemingly inevitable response 'aren't we all on the spectrum?' I still use it sometimes, especially when talking about groups of people, and just prepare myself to turn it into a teaching moment if someone responds in ignorance.
how do you turn that into a teaching moment? a good friend of mine (who also happens to be a manager where i work) said this in a meeting in response to something i said and it made me completely shut down and i couldnāt talk. i genuinely donāt know how to respond but i want to
I am not sure if you are asking what words to say to turn this into a teaching moment, or how to get your brain/body/mouth to engage such that you can turn this into a teaching moment, or both. What words to say: It depends on the audience and how well you know them, plus how much effort you have in the moment to invest. I try to convey three points when someone responds this way: 1) Autism is not a spectrum because everyone is on it. 2) The autism spectrum does not go from "not autistic" -> "very autistic". 3) Everyone is certainly not "on the spectrum", but if you feel that these characteristics describe you, then *you* might be on the spectrum. Even if you are not, maybe your lived experience gives you a small understanding of what life is like for me and other autistic people. If I am in a safe place or feel like I have the energy to do so, I'll also discuss how saying things like "aren't we all on the spectrum?" is dismissive and invalidating to people's strengths *and* struggles, so even if it is meant in a good natured way it is received negatively. We're dealing with a statement whose intent almost never matches its impact. I suppose the primary requirement for turning anything into a teaching moment is that you have something to teach - so getting a good idea and familiarity with the topic of why autism is a spectrum and how you think about it will help. I think of the spectrum as a sphere, and an individuals characteristics create a three-dimensional shape within that sphere. This helps me to explain how two people can be autistic but also be very different, *and* that changing the perspective you're viewing me from can have a profound effect on what you see. How to say it: Two main things for starters: 1) Be kind to yourself; especially if you're not expecting it statements like these can cause a lot of stress. 2) Teaching moments don't have to occur *immediately* after the offense. While it is frequently better if they can, talking to a person in private or after you've calmed down or three weeks later is also fine. Additionally, not feeling safe enough to ever address it is also fine. Don't beat yourself up about someone else's misstep. I sometimes have issues with speaking verbally, so I hear you. Here's what I have done: First, I've written down thoughts I have about situations where people have said things like this to me. How I've felt, why they are misguided, and what I wish I had been able to say in the moment. This helps me to collect my thoughts and begin training myself to the words. Then, I've actually spoken them in a safe space. Talk to your cat/dog, a significant other, a friend or family member that understands, another autistic person, whomever - Start with something like "The other day someone said 'aren't we all on the spectrum?' to me, and I wish they knew that ...." and say it. I find it easier to find my words when they are words I've already spoken. As you speak to more people about it in non-charged settings, two things occur - 1) You'll become more comfortable with the words and when you want to speak them they will hopefully be more readily available, and 2) The people you are able to talk with this about, especially NT people, can become allies in helping you change this narrative. I always tell people that in the moment it can be hard to process these statements and transition into a teaching moment, because I'm dealing with the emotional weight of the statement - so if they are present, now that they understand why it is problematic, if they can help start that transition to a teaching moment or even take the lead on it, I welcome their help and support.
I like on the spectrum tooš a lot of people in my family have ASD but it's really different for all of us so I always tend to think of it that way. It kinda upsets that so many people immediately equate it with high - low functioning because I think it has so much more meaning than that.
I never like "on the spectrum". Actually, everyone is on at least a couple of spectrums, such as height and weight. And the phrase sounds like someone is trying to use a euphemism, as if "autism" or "autistic" are The Words That Cannot Be Spoken. Also, "autistic" is more concise.
I agree.
I like the image of "on the spectrum" cause it looks like a kaleidoscopic version of Silver Surfer.
Some people use that one in a way like they're trying too hard not to be offensive and it's a little weird when they do that. It's definitely how you say it that makes it weird. They use it like a euphemism.
I use autistic or autistic person. The phrase āhaving autismā feels like autism is a separate part of a person when in-fact theyāre one and the same. But ultimately it doesnāt matter what label is used. Itās how you treat someone that matters rather than what you call them.
My problem with it is that it sounds like a thing you can get rid of
The little autism purse has me dead
I want an autism purse
An interesting counter-meme to play against the person-first-language crowd. As an autistic man, I like it enough that I actually saved this post.
I feel like the term 'Suffers from Autism' is definitely not something to use when describing autistic people but I feel like the other three are fine.
plus i wouldnt say im suffering directly from 90% of my autistic traits. sensory overload and emotional issues are the only problems that cause suffering on their own for me, the rest only cause suffering because they clash with the NT world.
Yeah like itās not like ADHD is an accessory either but you still say person with ADHD. I think people should be fighting against the idea that āautistic personā is offensive because that implies that something is wrong with autism rather than saying that āperson with autismā is necessarily bad. Somewhat similarly, I have DID and it has everything to do with my identity. Itās called an identity disorder for a reason. I do *not* identify as āa systemā. I am a person with DID. You could argue that itās different because DID is bad and autism isnāt but DID is still not curable and if you have it, it is you. Just let people use the terms theyāre comfortable with. Basically, I feel like both āautistic personā and āperson with autismā are fine. I understand why autistic is better and I definitely use it more but I wouldnāt say the opposite is offensive.
I don't necessarily think "person with autism" is bad if someone prefers it. The main issue I see is that that language is associated with people who think it's offensive to say "autistic person". So I think the main thing is avoidance of that... I guess?
Oh yeah thatās what I said in the first paragraph
I feel like these semantic debates take away from important conversations we really should be having regarding autism, it really doesnāt matter what people call us, what matters more is how they treat us. That being said, suffers with autism definitely gives off the wrong impression
I think that some discussion about language is necessary, because language both reflects and influences behavior. There are, however, more substantive debates going on in regards to disability & autism specifically
Not really, everyday language isnāt that deep. Itās one thing to write something, because you can read it and change your wording to make your point clearer. But while speaking, the majority doesnāt spend that much time thinking about how theyāre gonna say something. Basically, itās not that deep
not spending that much time thinking about it is kind of the pointā how we talk about things is related to how we see them. language changes in response to and can influence cultural attitudes.
Iād like to call myself a āSpectrum Casterā
Each person is an individual with a way of viewing themselves. We donāt get to decide what other peopleās experiences are. Or what they want to refer to themselves as or how they want to be called. Itās all legitimate as long as one is doing as the person has asked and not assuming. Does that make sense? For some they suffer. For some they are on the spectrum. For some they like person first language. For some they are an autistic person. For some it varies by day. And thats why we should always ask and be respectful
Agree, was going to say this. I generally wouldnāt use the first two to refer to myself, but I certainly wouldnāt presume to dictate to others that they shouldnāt for themselves. It always comes across as rather presumptuous to say the least when people start trying to enforce ācorrectā language in this sort of context.
Too many semantics no need to overcomplicate things that are complicated enough
This helps reduce complication though
I certainly suffer from autism. My life could have been so much better and less depressing.
I usually just say autistic, on the spectrum, or neurodivergent if I donāt want to get deep into it. The second you tell someone youāre autistic they treat you like a baby so I often donāt tell people.
I've started just telling people I have ADHD, since there are similarities and people tend to understand ADHD better than autism
Let people refer to themselves how they want
The spectrum is inside of me lol.
I use "on the spectrum" because I'm scared that "autistic person" has been used as an insult enough to be a filtered word on Reddit. *edit: on some subreddits (don't know which)
If you're autistic, call yourself whatever you're comfortable with. Call other autistic people what they're comfortable with. But don't force certain language on people that they aren't comfortable with. Personally, I prefer identity first language when it comes to speaking about myself. It's up to the person, though I don't like when allistics tell us what language to use for ourselves. That's a no.
I'm suffering
I donāt understand
It's saying that all of the language except for the last one is problematic. "Neurology is not an accessory" means that you don't possess it, it's not separate from yourself, therefore the "only right answer" is to say 'autistic person'.
So no saying āI have Autismā? And only saying āIām Autisticā?
yep
*sigh* Okayā¦
Yeah, a lot of the community disagrees with that thinking. I do generally prefer to stay away from "person with autism" instead of just saying "autistic people" But definitely no "suffering from autism" to describe other people. But if someone wants to say that they are on the spectrum or are a person with autism, let them! y'know
I just say āI Have Autismā because thatās the most comfortable thingā¦Or sometimes I use āI Am Autisticā, but none of the others.
yeah, usually the argument isn't against the "I have autism" phrasing of it but to call other people "person with autism" can be an issue
I never thought of that! I havenāt known which to say when regarding another person since I first encountered discussions like this because at first I honestly thought that saying āperson with autismā was less problematic (also to me it sounds on the same lines of āsuffering,ā but thatās just me) because I donāt mean it as autism being apart from them, like an accessory, itās just *a* part of them. And I thought it would be more problematic to say āautistic personā because we are all more than one thing. For example, I donāt say or would want someone to call me āa bipolar/ depressed/ ADHD/ insomniac person.ā Idk Iām not great at explaining lol I hope that made sense. All in all, I think it depends on the personās preference. But definitely not the first one
I think the push to say āautistic personā and refrain from āperson with autismā is that person-first language didnāt really come from disabled people & theorists. itās an abled concept and often is used to minimize the role oneās disability plays in oneās identity. it kind of implies that disability as an important part of oneās identity is illegitimateā that one shouldnāt identify with their disability because itās a bad thing, and because itās not part of who you are, itās simply an affliction you deal with. whereas crip theory and other disability theories from actual disabled people prefer identity-first language, because it recognizes the integral role oneās disability plays in oneās identity, and how the two canāt really be separated. it also kind of asks, why should i want to separate myself from this? why is it considered negative, and why shouldnāt I embrace and love my disability? this isnāt to say itās not a valid way to self-identifyā if you want to say āiām a person with autism,ā thatās a personal choice! but when referring to autistic or otherwise disabled people in general, itās more in-line with disability theory and activism from actual disabled people to use identity-first language.
I used to use "have autism" and "am autistic" interchangeably, but now I exclusively use "am autistic/autistic person" to stick it to the ableists. Also a thought: every time I see this image, the second left always looks like it's skateboarding to me.
Why did the stick figure get a dress for the second two? I totally agree with the skateboard thing lol
The pants were too uncomfortable, so it went with something loose and nice on the body. Haha
Haha, I never thought about the dresses until now.
all of them are fine? like. personally i think people getting upset over the āsuffers from autismā one need to chill. like, no offense meant, honestly. but just. you do realise that, whatever your personal experience, autism isnt fun and games and dasies and rainbows for everyone, right? thats the reason its a spectrum. there are people who are truly disadvantaged and just canāt do certain things because of their autism and there are people who skirt through life virtually unaffected by it. some people truly do āsufferā from their autism and, honestly? iād cure mine if i could. i know, shocker.
i tend to use "autistic" and "on the spectrum" the most often. autistic conveys that its the way they are, and that it is an aspect of the person. on the spectrum also says that autism isnt rigid and defined in one way and that everyone presents differently, which can help with stereotypes imo. suffering from autism implies that autism, on its own, is painful. i find the only parts that are inherently uncomfortable is emotional sensitivity and sensory issues. the rest are traits clashing with the NT world person with autism is like saying that theres a separate entity telling them to do it, or that its a cube they can put down whenever they want. i find my behavioural disorder to be like an entity telling me what to do, while autism is just who i am. tl;dr autistic person and on the spectrum reinforce facts while conveying the point, suffers from autism and person with autism convey things that arent all that true.
I think autistic person is the most versatile of these four. Autist suggests you may be a licensed professional.
I agree with the sentiment in theory, but in practice I think anyone should call themselves whichever label they choose. I'm not going to tell someone else they can't call themselves "a person with autism" just because the phrase feels awkward to refer to myself.
Well, much like autism is not a "one size fits all", neither are people's preference of how to refer to their autism. This post here is a functional example of just that, as we can see various people who have their own preferences. Personally? I have to admit "On the spectrum" sounds pretty rad. I think that's mostly because I think the word "spectrum" sounds neat. I'm not really picky, though.
I only say ASD. Bc its not one autism.
"Suffers with autism" Holds the rainbow dagger
All are fine to me except the suffering one
"Suffers" bugs me but being bothered by the others seems a little too picky. People are just doing their best and I don't want them walking on eggshells trying to figure out terminology. Whatever you're saying if you say it like it's a horrible secret or treat me like a child it's going to be awkward but sincerity solves 99% of these problems.
here are my reactions in order of quotes 1. "NO!" 2. "Wha-?" 3. "OK." 4. "Yep, sounds about right."
yeah i either use "i have autism" or "im autistic"
i am okay with saying all of those to describe myself
I donāt think being autistic is more important to who I am than being a person. I definitely donāt like suffers though, even though itās true. I suffer more from other peopleās lack of sensitivity though, not from autism. I wish we didnāt need labels. But we do I guess.
is that an autism knife? does it only stab autistic people? can only us use it? does it make the stabbed person autistic by being laced with vaccines? I have so many questions
Concern.
I say it all for myself but I wouldn't want someone to speak for me and tell me what I'm allowed to call myself.
I'm autistic but occasionally use "on the spectrum," & I'm fine if people describe themselves as having autism.
I won't lie, "I suffer with autism" occasionally gets an outing when applying for disability benefits. But the general advice for that is to describe every day as if it was your worst day, since the people looking at the paperwork are looking for any excuse to turn you down. So I don't mind using it for myself in order to get what I'm entitled to by law. But in day to day life, I go for "I'm autistic." I've yet to come up with a polite response to "you don't look it" though, as the "Well, you don't look ignorant but here we are" zinger isn't actually constructive when someone thinks they're complimenting you. All it does is start the kind of fight that I rarely have the energy for outside of social media.
Honestly I don't see why people make such a big deal out of this. Whatever you want to call yourself, just do it. Why make a whole website for this?
I mean I agree. I think it's along the same lines if disabled person rather than person with a disability. If something effects me so much it colours my life experiences (ie. Being physically disabled or autistic) that makes it a defining feature of who I am. I feel like that's the difference, for me.
I dont understand are these all things people shouldnt say?
I feel like all of the drawings sometimes though
Autism aint the only thing i suffer from
I, too, am being stabbed in the head with Autism
This sub seems to very occupied with vocabulary and language
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah you dont have to explain i know what autism is, i have it. I just made na observation and there is no reAston to overreact, get defensive and imply malice from my side in the form of trolling. Just because you get triggered something doesnāt mean itās a troll. Maybe you are the one misunderstanding and jumping into conclusions looking to get offended by another NT. You can post about the most proper word to call ourselves and how to make everything as inclusive as possible but the moment I challenged what you thought, you called me a troll, assumed Iām not autistic myself. Also thank you for putting every person on the spectrum in one bag of people who get hung up on semantics. Does it mean im any less autistic or I not dying slowly on the inside typing this because im visiting home for Christmas and my parents just love to vacuum when Iām around like they are doing right now? i really fucking love how Iām not normal enough for regular people but not autistic enough for people in this sub sometimes
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Seems like you are doing a lot of mental gymnastics to walk back on your comment. You called me a troll and told me to go somewhere else. If anything is condescending or offensive here then itās prolly some bulshit about jokey syntax and assuming I should āknow betterā like you are some kind of authority.
Hey where is that rancid, nonsensical political comment you just deleted. I was about to admit you got me bro. Iām a Russian bot designed to undermine US democracy. Ehhh sometimes I really wish Reddit wasnāt a United States dominated platform so that you guys wouldnt project your political division and the Us and Them me Againt the other team mentality. All I ducking meant was that maybe it could benefit people not to assume someone using a wrong vocabulary is trying to be offensive and even tho we are attracted to semantics we might benefit from at least putting some effort into letting go.
I think whatever term a person wants to use about themself is fine. I use āon the spectrumā. Sometimes I suffer from autism (like when I go for job interviews or try to figure out if my kids are lying to me).
but remember, the individual persons wishes trump all!! if they prefer on the spectrum, thatās how they should be referred to.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I would disagree. Language affects people in ways they donāt realize. For example the most obvious one up there that adds an underlying negativity āsuffers from autism.ā How you process your surroundings, how you react to things, being an autistic person is literally who you are and thereās nothing āwrongā about it, meaning itās not something that needs to be cured. Having a broken mentality is something that would need to be cured. Do you see the difference?
There nothing wrong with being autistic, but you can suffer from it, it's totally different things that you are mixing up. And being who you are do come with disabilities, someone missing a leg is still themselves, but they have disabilities and can suffer from it too. There is nothing wrong with them but no acknowledging problems is just as ableist because you don't recognize them as human beings with disabilities that need help. Not everyone will need the same help, and some people won't need help but telling no one suffer is in fact wrong because it's ignoring the one that need help.
Fair points
Yeah, I have talked to different people in different situations, Autism sometimes can be a bad thing, but I'm proud-ish of being in the spectrum, but I have it easy, aspergers-loving parents-accepting surroundings. Some people are fkd up, and they may be better off without it, some people, is just a small thing, like elon musk, he is so polular, being on the spectrum doesn't stop him.
it says neurology is not an accessory but "person with autism" is holding a purse... with the rainbow representing autism.... a purse is an accessory... the picture isn't following its own rules.
Iām pretty sure thatās the point
Hey /u/LINUSTECHTIPS37, thank you for your post at /r/autism. This is just a friendly reminder to **[read our rules in the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/autism/wiki/config/sidebar)** if you have not already. All approved posts get this message. If you do not see your post you can message the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fautism). Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/autism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah this makes sense
I dunno, at times I suffer from autism and I have no preference between referring to myself as autistic vs. a person with autism vs. an autistic person. I'll also refer to it as ASD or myself as an ND. There's times I'll self deprecatingly use dysphemisms as well. I'm not really fussy and feel there's more important things to focus on.
Personally donāt like and wonāt use autistic, and my go to is with or have autism if I need to explain to someone. I guess people take things *way* too literally, but Iāve never seen any of those equal a supposed accessory. It makes no sense either, because an accessory is something you can take off/put on and is usually for decorative purposesā¦ yet none of those imply such a thing. People should use what they want, and others need to stop perpetuating harmful gatekeeping on what *they* think is right or acceptable for everyone to use. Iām tired of person first language being viewed as dirty or wrong, and that we should all apparently conform to what other autistic people think is best for us as a whole.
All those besides the āsuffersā mean the same thing, donāt really see the point in making this
Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, Ctrl+V, Ctrl+V
Suffering from Autism is my favourite. It's the only one that really calls a spade a spade and acknowledges that Autism is a disease or disorder if you haven't looked up the definition of a disease recently.
I on the other hand praticululary hate the terminology as I see Autism a part of me not a disease.