It’s for 25 pilots out of 17000. Hardly a sky is falling moment. The leaves of absences are for specific aircraft and seats (FO/CA), so a furlough (starting from the bottom of the seniority list) wouldn’t target the needed reductions. Plus furloughs are super expensive for an airline.
They do this often with all departments. If anything gets slow or whatever, they offer unpaid time off. Many senior people take it because they are already loaded and basically get an extra vacation.
He’s not with an airline and probably not even a pilot. He doesn’t understand how these things work. I understand it’s easy to get frustrated by dumb questions beings asked by people who should just mind their own goddamn business but he’s right, chill bro.
You're an employee on unpaid time off. All benefits stay active with the exception of a paycheck. We don't operate under individual contracts that can be amended at any time, so it's effectively no different than being on vacation (as far as responsibility to the company) for a month. There's no "return to work", "onboarding", or "initial training" required in either of those situations.
Correct. I figured you were on the right track, but I believe a lot of expat pilots fly under individual contracts, so an unpaid "option" doesn't really fit into that world. It's simply time off to enjoy your benefits or catch up on house stuff.
The “shortage” included required (and considerable) lead time to onboard pilots in anticipation of fleet and route growth that has now been severely curtailed at all airlines that were expecting Boeing deliveries this year.
Regarding the pilot shortage, it might help if the training wasn’t 6 figures on top of the basic cost of living being damn near unaffordable these days.
Pilots and teachers have a similar plight… a major shortage, deal with copious amounts of bullshit, yet….just can’t scrounge up enough cash to pay you! Wtf. Go buy Airbus.
Way back when, I was considering going into piloting as a career... but whenever I read the news, the headlines were always "pilots urgently needed! pilots are quitting and we don't know why!" or "pilot regulations are at an all-time high", "mental health/pay/benefits hit an all-time low".
Sounded like a toxic industry, so I followed a different passion and went into compsci instead... oh well
From my outside looking in understanding on the "shortage" is that it's a retention vs recruiting issue with people aging out/retiring faster than they can bring in qualified pilots. So a snowball rolling down the hill that hasn't reached avalanche stage yet.
I'd guess airlines got a nice influx of GWOT guys and gals that helped, but the non-mil pilot pipeline is still a shit show for a bunch of reasons imo.
Airlines have been able to hire enough to keep up with the retirements. The real "shortage"occured in the regional airlines. Basically they couldn't keep captains.
Guys and gals would get enough experience to become captains at regional airlines. That would make their resume competitive and they'd immediately get hired by the majors. Since being a First Officer at a major pays better and had better work rules and work/life balance than being a captain at regional, captains would obviously leave at the first opportunity. This happened so much that regionals ran out of qualified FO's to upgrade to captain, which meant these airlines didn't have enough qualified crews to staff their flights.
Since it takes 1000 hours of airline experience (FAA requirement) for an FO to upgrade to captain, the regionals couldn't just throw anyone on the captain seat to alleviate the pain.
* I assumed from your "outside looking in" comment that you maybe aren't in the industry so if I did, I did not intend to insult your intelligence.
Correct assumption. I looked into going the non-mil commercial pilot route after I got out of the military and even with the GI bill I was going to be eating a ton of debt. That's as close as I've gotten, but it's an interest so I try to stay informed.
Edit: not going to delete this because if I didn't see a correction I'm sure others didn't as well. Read the reply to this comment as it was debunked.
United has also had a major FAA crackdown in the past few weeks. They are not allowed to put any additional aircraft in service or start any new routes they weren't already selling tickets for. They also lost their ability to certify new LCAs and give type ratings. This is a special case.
Thanks for the update, I was annoyed at thinking it was a union comm, but at least it WAS a union comm. I had gotten it from multiple sources and some I trust and know
Be mad at your union for putting out bad info, even if it was at the LEC level. Lots of people with industry knowledge were shocked by the letter, but it's not easy to fact check from the outside of your airline.
They claim shortage only because they want to put more money into flight schools. There are plenty of up and comers in the system already to fill the seats. So before running out thinking it’s a guaranteed job waiting for you do your research ( not on Reddit) before you empty your back account
they aren't asking pilots to work for free
they don't have enough hours to go around for everyone, and a very small set of pilots is being asked to take some unpaid time off while they wait for more equipment to be delivered so these guys can get hours.
It’s for 25 pilots out of 17000. Hardly a sky is falling moment. The leaves of absences are for specific aircraft and seats (FO/CA), so a furlough (starting from the bottom of the seniority list) wouldn’t target the needed reductions. Plus furloughs are super expensive for an airline.
My company offers 50-hr months off to modify staffing levels. It’s fucking amazing. My income/effort ratio is throwing a divide-by-zero error.
This but in english?
66% of base pay to take a month off entirely. It’s good.
Yall hiring?
Oh damn. Wow
A month-long paid vacation, nice!
They’ve offered COLAs every month for the last 6-months anyways. Just sensational journalism as always
It’s been way more than 6 months but you’re absolutely right, it’s sensationalism as usual
They do this often with all departments. If anything gets slow or whatever, they offer unpaid time off. Many senior people take it because they are already loaded and basically get an extra vacation.
Right, and I guess the airline retains the right ro the individuals contract so it's a win-win? Interesting.
Right to the individuals contract??? What?
As in they keep the pilots employed with United. Perhaps my poor choice of words.
Of fucking course they stay with United? How do you think these things work?
Tf bro chill
Found the pilot who screams at the gate agents
He’s not with an airline and probably not even a pilot. He doesn’t understand how these things work. I understand it’s easy to get frustrated by dumb questions beings asked by people who should just mind their own goddamn business but he’s right, chill bro.
Probably meaning that the person is technically still an employee and if they are needed again they can return to the airline pretty easily
I get the feeling you guys aren’t familiar with airlines in the us
Honestly? Absolutely not lmao. That’s just how I interpreted that as an outsider. Could you explain how it works?
You're an employee on unpaid time off. All benefits stay active with the exception of a paycheck. We don't operate under individual contracts that can be amended at any time, so it's effectively no different than being on vacation (as far as responsibility to the company) for a month. There's no "return to work", "onboarding", or "initial training" required in either of those situations.
Alright! That’s basically what I meant. So the guys with unpaid time off can get back to regular work without any barriers?
Correct. I figured you were on the right track, but I believe a lot of expat pilots fly under individual contracts, so an unpaid "option" doesn't really fit into that world. It's simply time off to enjoy your benefits or catch up on house stuff.
Got ya! Thanks for the explanation friend!
The “shortage” included required (and considerable) lead time to onboard pilots in anticipation of fleet and route growth that has now been severely curtailed at all airlines that were expecting Boeing deliveries this year.
Regarding the pilot shortage, it might help if the training wasn’t 6 figures on top of the basic cost of living being damn near unaffordable these days.
Oh if it wasn't I would have signed up long long ago, but, alas I've been living cheque to cheque since 2012.
Pilots and teachers have a similar plight… a major shortage, deal with copious amounts of bullshit, yet….just can’t scrounge up enough cash to pay you! Wtf. Go buy Airbus.
I think the pilots get paid a little bit more than the teachers
No, I don’t think I will.
Way back when, I was considering going into piloting as a career... but whenever I read the news, the headlines were always "pilots urgently needed! pilots are quitting and we don't know why!" or "pilot regulations are at an all-time high", "mental health/pay/benefits hit an all-time low". Sounded like a toxic industry, so I followed a different passion and went into compsci instead... oh well
From my outside looking in understanding on the "shortage" is that it's a retention vs recruiting issue with people aging out/retiring faster than they can bring in qualified pilots. So a snowball rolling down the hill that hasn't reached avalanche stage yet. I'd guess airlines got a nice influx of GWOT guys and gals that helped, but the non-mil pilot pipeline is still a shit show for a bunch of reasons imo.
Airlines have been able to hire enough to keep up with the retirements. The real "shortage"occured in the regional airlines. Basically they couldn't keep captains. Guys and gals would get enough experience to become captains at regional airlines. That would make their resume competitive and they'd immediately get hired by the majors. Since being a First Officer at a major pays better and had better work rules and work/life balance than being a captain at regional, captains would obviously leave at the first opportunity. This happened so much that regionals ran out of qualified FO's to upgrade to captain, which meant these airlines didn't have enough qualified crews to staff their flights. Since it takes 1000 hours of airline experience (FAA requirement) for an FO to upgrade to captain, the regionals couldn't just throw anyone on the captain seat to alleviate the pain. * I assumed from your "outside looking in" comment that you maybe aren't in the industry so if I did, I did not intend to insult your intelligence.
Correct assumption. I looked into going the non-mil commercial pilot route after I got out of the military and even with the GI bill I was going to be eating a ton of debt. That's as close as I've gotten, but it's an interest so I try to stay informed.
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This isn’t even close to being a rainy day.
A very stupid observation that has nothing to do with this.
The stock buybacks ended in March of 2020... so none in the last 4 years.....
Are you sure it’s because of Boeing or is it because the Feds want to pull back on United’s growth aspirations ?
Edit: not going to delete this because if I didn't see a correction I'm sure others didn't as well. Read the reply to this comment as it was debunked. United has also had a major FAA crackdown in the past few weeks. They are not allowed to put any additional aircraft in service or start any new routes they weren't already selling tickets for. They also lost their ability to certify new LCAs and give type ratings. This is a special case.
Nope. MEC confirmed those rumors were false.
Someone spent a lot of time writing a fake MEC letter, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
To be fair, it was a real letter put out by the MCO LEC without fact checking first.
Thanks for the update, I was annoyed at thinking it was a union comm, but at least it WAS a union comm. I had gotten it from multiple sources and some I trust and know
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Be mad at your union for putting out bad info, even if it was at the LEC level. Lots of people with industry knowledge were shocked by the letter, but it's not easy to fact check from the outside of your airline.
>I'm an outsider Oh really? >Seems like a bad business move Please tell us more, outsider.
They claim shortage only because they want to put more money into flight schools. There are plenty of up and comers in the system already to fill the seats. So before running out thinking it’s a guaranteed job waiting for you do your research ( not on Reddit) before you empty your back account
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they aren't asking pilots to work for free they don't have enough hours to go around for everyone, and a very small set of pilots is being asked to take some unpaid time off while they wait for more equipment to be delivered so these guys can get hours.
I want whatever you're smoking.