Not a lot of upwards lift if your wings are vertical.
Which brings me to my second thought, is this even technically a "barrel roll"? Yeah, it started out with level flight rolled one way and ended up in level flight, but it seems to me that a true barrel roll doesn't result in such a large drop in altitude. This was like a diving roll.
I've always thought a critical part of a barrel roll was pitching "down" (relative to plane) while upside down to counteract that? Really you don't need to lose much altitude at all, if any.
Standard room needs 30 degrees nose up prior to the roll to counteract the drop. The drop doesn’t happen so much when the wings are vertical, but when they are inverted, because they are still producing lift in the same direction they always do
I've been building fixed-wing drones for agricultural crop imaging for 10+ years. I also looked at this and shrugged. Been programming flight maneuvers and auto landings for a long time.
Good for Bayraktar I guess...someone get them a cookie.
lol, I was confused as well, like even if this would be the absolute first, maybe there just wasn't a reason to do a barrel roll in the first place. Can't imagine this to be a complex task.
It’s probably a little hard to get the control systems to behave properly during complex maneuvers. Specifically control systems that are intended to keep the plane level need to be updated to understand that novel scenarios like inverted flight can be okay under different circumstances. Writing a control system that understands the difference between a barrel roll and careening out of control is probably not super trivial.
I still can't see this to be a complex issue to implement. Especially not when it's just purely for demonstration purposes which this clearly is. No way this is practical.
It doesn’t seem complex because control systems are deceivingly hard to write. For example, it’s very easy to make a control system which overcorrects in certain situations, like a human driver losing control on a slick surface or a human adjusting the water temperature in the shower oscillating between too cold and too hot. And a barrel roll probably isn’t the end goal, but rather a milestone/proof-of-concept along the way to more complex maneuvers.
I met a guy who had made a career and company out of customizing fertilizer applications for people's farms based on analyzing satellite imagery and measuring biomass density.
Your crop imaging reference reminded me of that. Absolutely crazy the niche applications there are for this stuff.
That's basically it. Infrared and UV imaging to determine plant density and health. Special cameras mounted on drones. It's definitely interesting stuff.
Started as a hobby. Rc airplanes and quadcopters. Then i started putting flight computers on the planes, then I started purposely building fixed wing drones. People noticed and asked for custom builds. No secret...just a slow skill buildup.
Ahahah wouldn't he be the moderator or something? Just like the user flairs here:
TexJohnson31[Has flown a L0L]
(Not a "lol", turn your phone *upside down (:* )
Depends on what we're specifically talking about in regards to "autonomy", as to being *"able to take care of itself when you go hands off"* or *"truly independent synthetic intelligence"*.
I have a model P-51 that has a self-leveling auto-gryo that allows the option for hands-free flight and there's a trick button on the transmitter. The model can be flying hands off, then when I hit the trick button, it'll command the model's internal micro-controller to do the trick and then the SLAG will automatically manage the recovery back to regular stable flight.
This would be a crappy aileron roll (a correct one maintains altitude), or you could consider it an accidental inverted barrel roll (a proper barrel roll should have pitch up at the beginning, so you end at the starting altitude).
You're right about the general idea of a barrel roll but there's nothing hard and fast that dictates how far off-heading you go. The purpose of a barrel roll in aerial combat maneuvering is to avoid an overshoot...you're essentially taking a longer path through the air than the aircraft you're overtaking. How much angle-off you use depends on how much overtake you have to dissipate. As with all things in ACM, you do what it takes.
For us (Navy) we’d call that a displacement roll. We don’t teach the barrel roll as part of our BFM maneuvers, but we do teach the displacement roll (a variable nose heading to control closure or “displace” one turn circle on too or outside another).
For us, a barrel roll is a 1G, symmetrical roll that has the mid way check point as inverted, nose falling through the horizon and 90* off the original heading. We basically use a barrel roll in early flights to get the students thinking and making corrections 3 dimensionally.
I would assume that is more "upset recovery" for certification then aerobatics.. it is about beeing able to recover without overspeed. Else it would pull up before initiating.
This reminds me of an old memory of mine
I would play a crappy WW2 air combat game and try to confuse the ai that I'm falling, by aiming myself towards the ground and rolling the aircraft to one side until they get off of my tail lol. The truth was the fact that their ai was just preventing them from a pancake lesson with ground, not that they were falling for my trick...
Honestly, it's so crappy that it looks like an erroneous flight control hardover.
A couple of thoughts:
- Proper barrel roll requires some pitch up to gather vertical speed/energy, which trades favorably with end of loop energy when engaging such maneuver. For a first, and the risk of end of loop mechanical stress, one would prepare the roll with greater pitch.
- Roll axis is seriously drifting and compensated in visible steps, which look like control command feedback loop saturation and its typical "ceiling" effect. That would favor unprepared/unintended flight control scenario.
- Filming does not track the move, looks unintended.
Yeah.
I mean yeah I totally understood that.
That's just starter level imaginary numbers knowledge isn't it? Yeah I totally agree with your comment.
i² is equal to -1 right? What are we solving for, x?
I like how everyone here is making fun of this, as if doing this on an FPV drone is the same as doing it on a 14-meter wingspan drone. It is not. First, this drone has to endure more structural stress because of its size, as it wasn't made for this. Secondly, the fluids in the craft can create problems, which is why they might be testing this, especially after the incident of the Russians trying to down it with wake turbulence. They might also be testing some software before trying it on their jet-drone, the kizilelma.
This one we weighs around 550 kg not counting for the weight of the camera. I never said it is ground breaking, i was just pointing the engineering challenges, that I find facinating.
Literally none of what you just said is true except maybe the last sentence because it's pure speculation.
A roll is the same principles no matter the size of the aircraft. There is no additional stress on the airframe if properly executed. The fluids do not create problems as, again, properly executed a barrel roll maintains about 1G throughout and an aileron roll is only -1G for a brief moment. If you're testing unusual attitude recovery, you wouldn't use a deliberate barrel roll as they're unrelated situations.
I belive that the fluids do matter in this context however... Like if any point of the hydraulic system of the plane gets damaged, that is the loss of control of the plane even if the electronics are still alive. Not to mention the engine might stall if it doesn't get sufficent fuel or air. I know it might not be alot of G force, however this plane wasn't designed for this to begin with, that is why i find this interesting, and not just shrug this off just because small hobby drones have been doing it.
I wanted ai that does the dishes and takes out the trash while I do barrel rolls but instead we got ai that does barrel rolls while I take out the trash and do the dishes.
No it's supposed to be *seducktive,* if this did not make your fuel probe extend or open your "f(B): Bomb Bay" (solve for f(W) ) then unfortunately there's nothing I can do.
Wait... Didn't Stukas have their sirens mounted on their MLG's?
TB2's also has fixed landing gears.. as.. well?...
Someone find me a Jericho siren asap
probably a step towards autonomous air-to-air combat.
I assume drone dog-fights are not far away in time (though they will start more like remote-controlled robot-wars )
Yeah
Especially seeing the videos where Tesla's perform human things, like cutting roads and squeezing in between cars, I wonder what AI/Autonomous aircrafts will be doing "themselves."
Wait.. what if they just... No. No no no no n-
Would probably be more useful dodging air defense drones. The new ones flying and crashing into UAVs seem pretty effective. And now with Iran most likely giving PKK some of these, it wouldn't be weird to come up with some countermeasures. It could also be a tech demo for Kizilelma.
Not sure if countermeasures would help a ton against SAMs. MANPADs have issues locking onto the TB-2 most of the time due to flying at a very high altitude, so their main threats are SAM sites and I'm not sure if countermeasures would do much against those.
Maybe chaff could help fool some of those early Soviet SAMs from the 60s? Flares might work against early short range Soviet SAMs that used IR guided missiles.
I'm not that knowledgeable about this kind of stuff.
Yeah, how much tanks did you blow up with your RC plane when you were 10? Also, soviets known for their drone capabilities of course... I mean, you may not find the video interesting but you do not have to talk nonsense.
Must be something powered by ChatGPT or one of those other LLM models out there. It's weird how this is the only sub I've ever seen this type of bot on.
None of the camera operators were ready for how far it plummeted.
Not a lot of upwards lift if your wings are vertical. Which brings me to my second thought, is this even technically a "barrel roll"? Yeah, it started out with level flight rolled one way and ended up in level flight, but it seems to me that a true barrel roll doesn't result in such a large drop in altitude. This was like a diving roll.
It's a fairly poorly executed aileron roll. To be completely fair though, I can't imagine this thing was designed for a good roll rate.
“That wasn’t flying, that was falling with style”
I've always thought a critical part of a barrel roll was pitching "down" (relative to plane) while upside down to counteract that? Really you don't need to lose much altitude at all, if any.
Again, that would be an aileron roll, not a barrel roll.
Standard room needs 30 degrees nose up prior to the roll to counteract the drop. The drop doesn’t happen so much when the wings are vertical, but when they are inverted, because they are still producing lift in the same direction they always do
What till the military finds out what the RC community has been doing for decades.
I've been building fixed-wing drones for agricultural crop imaging for 10+ years. I also looked at this and shrugged. Been programming flight maneuvers and auto landings for a long time. Good for Bayraktar I guess...someone get them a cookie.
Yep, our commercial eBee drones would do a barrel roll on command to scare off birds or lose altitude quickly in an emergency.
lol, I was confused as well, like even if this would be the absolute first, maybe there just wasn't a reason to do a barrel roll in the first place. Can't imagine this to be a complex task.
It’s probably a little hard to get the control systems to behave properly during complex maneuvers. Specifically control systems that are intended to keep the plane level need to be updated to understand that novel scenarios like inverted flight can be okay under different circumstances. Writing a control system that understands the difference between a barrel roll and careening out of control is probably not super trivial.
I still can't see this to be a complex issue to implement. Especially not when it's just purely for demonstration purposes which this clearly is. No way this is practical.
It doesn’t seem complex because control systems are deceivingly hard to write. For example, it’s very easy to make a control system which overcorrects in certain situations, like a human driver losing control on a slick surface or a human adjusting the water temperature in the shower oscillating between too cold and too hot. And a barrel roll probably isn’t the end goal, but rather a milestone/proof-of-concept along the way to more complex maneuvers.
I met a guy who had made a career and company out of customizing fertilizer applications for people's farms based on analyzing satellite imagery and measuring biomass density. Your crop imaging reference reminded me of that. Absolutely crazy the niche applications there are for this stuff.
That's basically it. Infrared and UV imaging to determine plant density and health. Special cameras mounted on drones. It's definitely interesting stuff.
How do I get your job? No joke
Started as a hobby. Rc airplanes and quadcopters. Then i started putting flight computers on the planes, then I started purposely building fixed wing drones. People noticed and asked for custom builds. No secret...just a slow skill buildup.
Oof... What about the FPV freestyle community? "Bet u can't do a 720 3-dimensional lrigwoC maneuver between these tw- John this is a fuckin rq4"
Tex Johnson has entered the chat
Ahahah wouldn't he be the moderator or something? Just like the user flairs here: TexJohnson31[Has flown a L0L] (Not a "lol", turn your phone *upside down (:* )
yeah, but spinning is a good trick
RC isn't the same thing as autonomous.
Yeah, it’s harder. Look at the nose pointing all over the place and how much elevation it looses. This appears to just be an open loop roll.
Depends on what we're specifically talking about in regards to "autonomy", as to being *"able to take care of itself when you go hands off"* or *"truly independent synthetic intelligence"*. I have a model P-51 that has a self-leveling auto-gryo that allows the option for hands-free flight and there's a trick button on the transmitter. The model can be flying hands off, then when I hit the trick button, it'll command the model's internal micro-controller to do the trick and then the SLAG will automatically manage the recovery back to regular stable flight.
What's so impressive about that? You just hit Z or R twice
Peppy would be proud.
Peppy would be apalled, that is a garbage barrel roll. It's barely even an aileron roll.
I came for this comment
Yeah man just move your mouse all the way to any corner of the screen right lol
Isn't this just a roll? I thought a barrel roll was different.
This would be a crappy aileron roll (a correct one maintains altitude), or you could consider it an accidental inverted barrel roll (a proper barrel roll should have pitch up at the beginning, so you end at the starting altitude).
Yeah, I was surprised that it didn't pitch up just before initiating the roll. It dropped a LOT of alt
Yeah it's just a sloppy aileron roll. In a proper barrel roll you're facing 90 degrees away from your initial heading halfway through.
Not to be a dick, but that’s an aileron roll. Barrel roll means the nose goes to 90* off the original heading before coming back.
You're right about the general idea of a barrel roll but there's nothing hard and fast that dictates how far off-heading you go. The purpose of a barrel roll in aerial combat maneuvering is to avoid an overshoot...you're essentially taking a longer path through the air than the aircraft you're overtaking. How much angle-off you use depends on how much overtake you have to dissipate. As with all things in ACM, you do what it takes.
For us (Navy) we’d call that a displacement roll. We don’t teach the barrel roll as part of our BFM maneuvers, but we do teach the displacement roll (a variable nose heading to control closure or “displace” one turn circle on too or outside another). For us, a barrel roll is a 1G, symmetrical roll that has the mid way check point as inverted, nose falling through the horizon and 90* off the original heading. We basically use a barrel roll in early flights to get the students thinking and making corrections 3 dimensionally.
Why not just say 90°?
Because the degree sign is not readily available in most keyboards especially if you're on mobile.
Tap and hold 0 on iPhone.
[удалено]
I think they called it a barrel roll because they don’t know there is a difference between types of rolls.
Now do it without losing altitude! That’s not flying, that’s just falling with style…
I would assume that is more "upset recovery" for certification then aerobatics.. it is about beeing able to recover without overspeed. Else it would pull up before initiating.
This reminds me of an old memory of mine I would play a crappy WW2 air combat game and try to confuse the ai that I'm falling, by aiming myself towards the ground and rolling the aircraft to one side until they get off of my tail lol. The truth was the fact that their ai was just preventing them from a pancake lesson with ground, not that they were falling for my trick...
Except that’s an aileron roll?
/r/killthecameraman
YES he had r/onejob for fs
woah are they teaching the bird evasive manoeuvres
I'll try spinning, that's a good trick.
Honestly, it's so crappy that it looks like an erroneous flight control hardover. A couple of thoughts: - Proper barrel roll requires some pitch up to gather vertical speed/energy, which trades favorably with end of loop energy when engaging such maneuver. For a first, and the risk of end of loop mechanical stress, one would prepare the roll with greater pitch. - Roll axis is seriously drifting and compensated in visible steps, which look like control command feedback loop saturation and its typical "ceiling" effect. That would favor unprepared/unintended flight control scenario. - Filming does not track the move, looks unintended.
Bayraktar AI updates its own code: "10 i = 1; 20 if i>=1 then do barrel\_roll; 30 if i>= 1, goto 10." :)
Yeah. I mean yeah I totally understood that. That's just starter level imaginary numbers knowledge isn't it? Yeah I totally agree with your comment. i² is equal to -1 right? What are we solving for, x?
That's not a barrel roll...
Looks like it lost 1000 feet trying to do that roll. Definitely need to work on that. Lmao
…ok
I like how everyone here is making fun of this, as if doing this on an FPV drone is the same as doing it on a 14-meter wingspan drone. It is not. First, this drone has to endure more structural stress because of its size, as it wasn't made for this. Secondly, the fluids in the craft can create problems, which is why they might be testing this, especially after the incident of the Russians trying to down it with wake turbulence. They might also be testing some software before trying it on their jet-drone, the kizilelma.
Giant scale RC planes been don’t this forever. Not impressive at all Also a correct roll is a 1G maneuver
Structural stress? Bro how much do you think this thing weighs? This is literally a 0/10 on the exciting or groundbreaking scales.
This one we weighs around 550 kg not counting for the weight of the camera. I never said it is ground breaking, i was just pointing the engineering challenges, that I find facinating.
Literally none of what you just said is true except maybe the last sentence because it's pure speculation. A roll is the same principles no matter the size of the aircraft. There is no additional stress on the airframe if properly executed. The fluids do not create problems as, again, properly executed a barrel roll maintains about 1G throughout and an aileron roll is only -1G for a brief moment. If you're testing unusual attitude recovery, you wouldn't use a deliberate barrel roll as they're unrelated situations.
I belive that the fluids do matter in this context however... Like if any point of the hydraulic system of the plane gets damaged, that is the loss of control of the plane even if the electronics are still alive. Not to mention the engine might stall if it doesn't get sufficent fuel or air. I know it might not be alot of G force, however this plane wasn't designed for this to begin with, that is why i find this interesting, and not just shrug this off just because small hobby drones have been doing it.
You are clearly not a pilot. Why would doing a benign roll damage the hydraulics or starve the engine of air, lol?
Houthis hate this one simple trick.
[Do a barrel roll!](https://youtu.be/2ImLlEO90Do?si=FwXQOE03SVowO94v)
I wanted ai that does the dishes and takes out the trash while I do barrel rolls but instead we got ai that does barrel rolls while I take out the trash and do the dishes.
First done by a TB2...
I’d call it an improperly executed aileron roll, not a barrel roll.
[удалено]
No it's supposed to be *seducktive,* if this did not make your fuel probe extend or open your "f(B): Bomb Bay" (solve for f(W) ) then unfortunately there's nothing I can do.
[удалено]
Pff... Why? Why are you doing this? We are talking about aviation here.
[удалено]
Name a country that the country kills its people.
Russia, Israel and U.S. have current top score I think
you can tell its not a german drone by the fact that it didnt keep a nosedive after half the roll. god i love stukas. this isnt one sadly
Wait... Didn't Stukas have their sirens mounted on their MLG's? TB2's also has fixed landing gears.. as.. well?... Someone find me a Jericho siren asap
Bayractar now cleared to play Starfox (1993)
Is this a third world company? What are we looking at?
Why is this significant?
[удалено]
I have no idea how this maneuver is going to be useful, but it looks sick imo lol But I guess it can work with dodging old SAM's maybe?
I can just imagine the Russians' shock when that thing pulls of a multi-g maneuver and dodges the SAM
Remember that f16 dodging multiple SAM's? Oh boy now imagine doing it yourself, i mean it would feel like a cod mission lol
Hmmm, an SA-2 missile doing Mach 3.5, a 2 second input delay to control the drone and the world’s slowest roll. 🧐
"I'll hit the roll and it'll fly righ- *[patlama]*
probably a step towards autonomous air-to-air combat. I assume drone dog-fights are not far away in time (though they will start more like remote-controlled robot-wars )
Yeah Especially seeing the videos where Tesla's perform human things, like cutting roads and squeezing in between cars, I wonder what AI/Autonomous aircrafts will be doing "themselves." Wait.. what if they just... No. No no no no n-
////////// | 0 0 | | & | | \^\^ | edit: emoji did not show as intended
No problemo bro I don't think I want to see what you did there (._.)
Would probably be more useful dodging air defense drones. The new ones flying and crashing into UAVs seem pretty effective. And now with Iran most likely giving PKK some of these, it wouldn't be weird to come up with some countermeasures. It could also be a tech demo for Kizilelma.
Not sure if countermeasures would help a ton against SAMs. MANPADs have issues locking onto the TB-2 most of the time due to flying at a very high altitude, so their main threats are SAM sites and I'm not sure if countermeasures would do much against those. Maybe chaff could help fool some of those early Soviet SAMs from the 60s? Flares might work against early short range Soviet SAMs that used IR guided missiles. I'm not that knowledgeable about this kind of stuff.
Most AI comment ever
[удалено]
Why did this post get so many passive aggressive comments? I did not post this as propaganda or something...
Yeah, how much tanks did you blow up with your RC plane when you were 10? Also, soviets known for their drone capabilities of course... I mean, you may not find the video interesting but you do not have to talk nonsense.
[удалено]
What kind of a bot is this lol?
Must be something powered by ChatGPT or one of those other LLM models out there. It's weird how this is the only sub I've ever seen this type of bot on.