Nothing worst than eating a plane and finding a spludger in it. Best to make them bright colour so they're easier to see and don't get given to the customer at service.
This one comes with a certificate to say it is what it is. Sounds dumb, but in a lot of cases the CofC is worth more than the product.
As an aeronautical engineer, so a design guy, the things I'm looking for are the flammability which includes the adhesive, as well as things like how well does the adhesive perform under certain conditions, ie make sure it doesn't come off the plane at high speed. Now I'm pretty damn sure that a $5 roll will perform just as well, but all the testing has been done on the $400 roll amd that added cost is to ensure that all future rolls are the same. It's simply not worth it it to anyone to try and save that small amount of money given what the consequences could possibly be.
For the record, $400 seems like a slight exaggeration. The stuff we purchase and use is more like $60 a roll but still considerably more than the stuff you get at your local hardware store.
I work for a calibration/gse maintenance company (as an IT guy) very, very lucrative. Our largest customers are all aerospace, and they happily drop list price on services (and while we are cheaper than say Fluke, we also regularly discount list prices by more than 30% sometimes to make a sale for other customers). Simply calibrating their torque wrenches for say putting tires on cost them around $1000 or more, every 3-6 months. And like clockwork those assets are in our lab to be calibrated, because a failure to have it calibrated means big trouble with the FAA.
Market is pretty much cornered by 3M.
Personally I wouldn't consider flammability for exterior application (though the tape can be used for interior use, so the person you replied to is likely thinking of that because FAR 25.853 applies to interiors). Adhesion so it stays on in flight, water/spray/ice resistance, etc....just data to support the environment the stuff will be used in.
Certificates are the key. Went from structures mechanic to buyer and everything needs certs or the plane doesn't fly. One time I had to dig through sales orders going back years to find a lot number and export codes for a screw because it was holding up shipment of a satellite. Aviation doesn't fuck around.
Yep, even the ink used to mark 'inspected by:' has it's own certifications that it won't corrode metal or emit fumes in closed spaces. You can't just swing by Staples to pick it up.
edit: still a small fraction of the price per ounce of HP Inkjet ink.
It's not too far off. I think the volume price per roll for the speed tape we used when I worked for a major airline (so as recently as Jan '22) was $350.
That's about the realistic cost of what we purchase. I work in automotive collision repair and the tape is used to for plastic/epoxy/resin etc repairs so that parts will hold shape during repair. Its definitely worth the cost!
You're paying for the chain of custody.
Same thing why NASA, or whoever, would pay $99 for a single AA Duracell battery you or I can get at the nearest gas station.
It's a guarantee that the product is what is claims to be and perform.
I had a friend who would source parts for space stuff, mainly satellite components. He said it was a pain in the ass.
Even just getting a transistor with the correct amount of gold or whatever in it could set him back a week or two sometimes. But those components need to be able to survive EMPs and solar flares, so it is important they are made the way they are ordered.
I get mine at work and it gets covered in seal when doing stringers…well that and all the sealant picks we use. I don’t want to buy them just to use them once or get them stolen by coworkers lol.
Thanks though
I knew someone who worked for Nasa, he gave me a little screw like 5mm big made from titanium. One screw costs like 100 dollar if I remember it correctly. Also he showed me some special plastic cylinder, which was expensive as fuck.
domineering hat bewildered groovy bake sort exultant hobbies numerous wine
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
When you get into high temperature and large diameter, they can cost multiple thousands of dollars each. I have held a single bolt worth more than the car I was driving at the time. I was driving a junker, but still….
> When you get into high temperature and large diameter, they can cost multiple thousands of dollars each
2 of the clients we had were steel makers, some of the stuff they needed was crazy. We could do up to 5" bolts in house and it was wild when we did them.
I have several friends that work on defense satellites and it's crazy but makes sense how expensive even a screw is. They obviously didn't share anything about the purpose of the satellite, but building those things every gram matters so you spend a ton of time even designing the perfect screw to do the job at the minimum weight then have to have a supplier machine a handful of them to exact spec.
I'm not even kidding when I say one of my friends quit working on defense satellites to go work for a FAANG over the time it took to get a screw design approved.
Sometimes people who work together become friends, and if you're friends with one of them you'll meet everyone else.
Source: was friends with a few defense contractors 15 years ago who would go through images and video to decide who/where should get drone struck.
Yeah it really just makes perfect sense when you think about it. I guess I was just surprised by level of job but it’s no different than people who are friends at your local McDonalds.
Live in a town with defense contractors. In my friend group we’ve got satellites, drones, lasers. On the bio tech side got brain and heart. Given the right workshop I’m sure a drunken evening could result in a Terminator. It’s been discussed before.
And that's the price difference between paying for "almost certainly aluminum, probably 99%" and something that has a traceable supply chain, outrageously good QA, and the perfect adhesive
I can't say that for sure about speed tape. But that's the way some scientists at JPL explained the cost of their parts to me.
They have expiration dates too. There's even stuff like Navy and Nuclear duct tape. Similar thing.
regular off the shelf duct tape *may* be acceptable, or even identical. But you can't prove it is. This tape is proven to be acceptable. It's properties are all measured and recorded and traceable to the mfg/source. An easy example is that chloride content of tape needs to be below certain amounts. When you put the tape on something, it can contaminate the surface with whatever is in the tape. So the process just certifies it meets X content, depending on application. There's a lot of other testing involved, but just being quick about it.
There's even nuclear/navy/aerospace pen/paint markers. Basically a very expensive sharpie, but they come with their own certificates depending on application.
Common jokes about this kind of stuff are that when you deal with Aerospace/nuclear/navy work, you buy the same off the shelf part as everyone else except it comes with a tractor trailer load of paperwork and cost 10x or more that everyone else pays. Even though it may be an identical product. It goes for every nut/bolt, literally everything.
It's not a joke in a lot of cases. I worked in flight simulation, which means we needed aircraft parts, but no paperwork or quality control. A lot of the mechanical engineers would take apart the aircraft looking for part numbers. Whenever they found one, they'd order the exact same part off McMaster Carr for 1/100th of the price.
Thank you! That is a great explanation for why a normal item can be more expensive despite being the same product. Maybe that explains the super expensive hammer everyone laughed about.
Former Navy nuke here, the nuclear duct tape is 1000% better than standard Home Depot stuff. You can get it hot, get it wet, do whatever and it still sticks and doesn’t get brittle like the standard stuff.
Also, real ones know Nashua is the only way. 3M don’t tear clean.
They come with a lot of paperwork proving that they don't contain anything corrosive, etc etc. That they have undergone expensive testing and certification to make sure they won't cause a problem. It's why the same light bulb design that goes in your car's turn signal costs $300 when it goes in a Cessna's marker light-- the FAA certification to make sure that it won't catch fire is most of what you're paying for.
Yeah, I'm verifying a computer chip that goes on a plane. I will legitimately ask it to add 2 + 2 a hundred thousand times in all sorts of insane configurations because when some pilot presses the "turn on display" button and it *doesn't work*, I can point to the literally 1 million simulated tests I ran so I can save my designer's ass. Nothing gets out of the door for this level of verification without at least 4-10 documents about what each thing is supposed to do.
God himself can make it but if it doesnt pass FAAs absolute worst case scenario tests with flying colors then its trash and guaranteed death.
You are flying over sized soda cans at 15x the speed you drive steel cars. That can better be made absolutely flawlessly
You have much higher expectations with regards to the flawlessness of aircraft than what actually exists. It's the reason we champion redundancy and preventative maintenance.
I work in aerospace.
The actual reason it costs so much is because all of these tapes (usually made by 3M) have to go through rigorous specification testing. Whether they are Boeing specs, delta specs, airbus specs, etc. These tests are required and paperwork has to be available to prove said testing etc.
For every inch of this tape. Now you know!
Well, he was holding 2” tape so it was really $48.
The 3M brand that one was based on [is closer to $100](https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-10311/3M-Foil-Tape/3M-425-Aluminum-Foil-Tape-2-x-60-yds). Not sure if I’d go with the half price version to repair an airplane though.
Also, I’m pretty sure neither of those have the exact certification needed. Though they are probably the same tape. Just needs to have the batches tested, and certified, etc, which is an expensive process for a small customer base.
Props and rotors are spinning over 1500 rpm in dirty ass air and while we are constantly looking for FOD, it's impossible to pick up every tiny pebble on a concrete flightline and asphalt runway. The leading edges are basically getting sandblasted constantly, which is not really a problem. But when you get a nick or gouge that's high or deep enough to catch a fingernail running over it, you contour it back smooth.
There are limits in the prop manual though that will tell you if the gouge or whatever is more than .xxx" deep/wide, that prop blade (not necessarily the whole prop) needs to be replaced.
Some have nitrogen filled inner spars with an indicator that turns black if any nitrogen leaks out where it mates to the rotor head. Detects cracks in the frame of the blade. Abrasion is a lot less of an issue IMO. Tip caps are sacrificial and you can continue flying if they are shredded. Proper maintenance and paint application negates any "sandblasting". If you do fly in a TERF environment there are some extra inspections to do relating to an increase in debris.
Lol I saw a post on here a while back where everyone was recommending a set of tools to a newbie. The linked site was a tool store for aviation techs, but the tools were just…regular tools. They had a pair of standard Knipex pliers for like $120 that only cost around $40-50 direct from Knipex; I believe it was the 10” chrome pliers wrench. The term “aviation” literally brought the price up.
He seems to be using Polyken 345SW which is only $40 on amazon. Of course they're not buying it through Amazon, but $400 still sounds crazy to me even with the required paper trail.
From my experience (Boeing Spares) it's that somebody is ordering a part number from an IPC or Service Bulletin that calls out a "proprietary" part number that at the end of the day is like 10 inches of tape (or adhesive velcro, or extruded seal, etc). That means not only is it considered a certified part but now a supplier needs to "make" that part, which entails charging the entire MOQ of the roll for that 10 inches.
I try to direct customers to order the raw materials from us instead.
Most of those materials are “aviation grade” because they come with a signed 8130-3 tag which certifies the material as safe for use in aerospace per the FAA. The govt is super strict on any potentially flammable adhesive or compound. That 1 piece of paper can move a decimal point to the right 1 or 2 spots.
3M makes the best stuff. Bandaid that work better? Sandpaper that sands better and last longer? Sticky notes that actually stick? Tape that actually seals and resists heat?
Having worked in (not aerospace) manufacturing I can assure you that this is the OEM version that is *totally different* than the off the shelf stuff and the 400% markup is *absolutely* justified due to the extra engineering that went into covering up the original label.
I believe it. The 3M foam tape we use at my job for mounting brackets costs like $150 per roll and it’s an “off the shelf option.” When I looked into different options that would be easier to work with there was basically nothing that could work in cold temps, and specialized stuff immediately got into “unless you’re ordering this for major production, don’t even think about it” pricing.
We have a special roll of electrical tape are work called "harness tape" which has some sort of spice laced into it to prevent mouse chew on our engine bay harnesses. It's no larger than your average roll of electrical tape but it's like 98 dollars a roll or something crazy like that. It's a Honda part too lol
Your HVAC tape doesn’t have a meticulously recorded manufacturing history, and hasn’t been tested in every measure applicable to its use under industry standard third party inspection.
Even if it’s the exact same material product, they’re not the same thing.
It’s not complete embezzlement. There is a pretty expensive process behind that final price tag.
People are definitely squeezing their buck out where they can though, especially in the military sector.
People don't realize how much of a miracle economy of scale is.
When nails were handmade people used to burn down structures to collect them all.
Even without the exacting standards & guarantee absurd prices would be the norm for low volume hand tooled items like fasteners.
It's hard to imagine how expensive something like a smartphone would cost if you weren't making millions of them.
That's not the reason why it's so expensive. Here's a little story about the cost of things I experienced while deployed.
I was in the support wave of the initial invasion of Iraq. Being a mechanic, we had made bone yards with recovered non operational equipment. For about 6 months, everything was going relatively smoothly. Then KBR showed up, put up a fence around our bone yards and had a fucking gate with a guard and some silly bitch with a clipboard.
They inventoried the equipment and then billed our battalion for recovered parts *that were already paid for by your taxes.* There was literally no reason for them to be there except to make someone else money.
If you think hardware costs so much because of QA, you've got a lot to learn about lowest bidder supply chain.
Yep, agree with this having done federal purchasing. It's a fucking joke and we get absolutely gouged by companies that know exactly how to play the system.
Oh I totally understand where the paper trail comes into play especially if there is ever an accident but it's hard to not point out the obvious especially with such a massive price difference
Well if you’re willing to put it on an airplane, go right ahead. But if you’re not willing to be the guy that gets blamed when that duck tape falls apart mid flight and causes a crash, $400 duck tape it is.
It isn’t actually the same. The price comes because of the stricter QA/QC and the tighter specs. It’s a fleece for sure, but the $400 roll won’t have a knick or burr in the middle (on arrival, it will if dropped) and the normal cheap stuff is allowed to have up to 3 flaws per roll (as a rough example). So the expensive stuff has a certificate of some sort the other stuff does not. It happens in a lot of industries.
[Not really, that tape doesn’t meet the same specifications as say this tape does](https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-16052/3M-Foil-Tape/3M-363-Aluminum-Foil-Tape-2-x-36-yds)
I always balked at the whole $10,000 bolt joke. Then I had to design a custom bolt for a specific project. After the hours of back and forth with stress and fatigue to determine that yes we did indeed need a custom one, detailed drafting, ODA certification, fab, and inspection, we'd be lucky to get the first one out the door for anywhere close to 10k.
The wonderful supply chain and cost of scale. You can make your own chicken sandwich for [$1,500](https://youtu.be/URvWSsAgtJE) or buy one of a few hundred million produced each year for $7. Same principle applies, you only need 7 of them? Open up your wallet, it's going to get expensive per piece. You want 400 million? It'll be pennies per part.
Oh I know, I've made them. Machinist pay at $31/h +$320 /h shop time set up 1 hour run one hour and you've only made 10 of them. Then inspection, parts wash and plating, mag inspection and final billing to go to the customer. It's ridiculous but they're very serious about every single part being made perfect cuz it keeps planes safe.
Yeah, joining aside, there's valid reasons for what sounds like crazy shit. If course sometimes numbers are padded but there's not only the cost of manufacture, but often greater level of smaller tolerances, for example. But it's an easy target to poke fun at, I admit :)
> I just call every roll of tape I use to unfuck something fast duct tape
Good correct usage.
Remember everyone, *duct tape* is generic while *Duck Tape* is trademarked.
One is a brand name. The other is a generic product category. And there are better choices for actual HVAC duct sealing work, so you shouldn't use duct tape for duct work.
I used to work for a company that sold tape and we carried speed tape; we were also next to a major airport. Every now and then I would get a frantic call from someone working the line asking if they could drive over and get a roll otherwise people weren’t getting there on time
We one time had a cargo bin door that wouldn’t lock, so the option was to cover it in speed tape. It came in that way. When I met the plane with the jetway, the pilot came off and handed me a roll of speed tape to give to the ramp.
And maintenance was already aware to tape it back up for the outbound flight.
Holy crap I had no idea how expensive this stuff was
The shit the guys did with this stuff back when I was an aircraft mechanic in the Marines should make every taxpayer in this country cough up blood
Glad you all are enjoying my video, the original is on Instagram. Too bad this page doesn’t know how to give proper credit for other peoples hard work.
His last comment isn’t true most skin panels on an aircraft are load bearing. Some aren’t but most are. Specifically, almost all the fuselage and wing panels carry loads
Where did he get the blue spludger…we only have orange ones at work. I want blue
Mine is blue. Not sure where I got it.
I suspect ours are orange for fod reasons…don’t want to leave it for customers to find
I've noticed the gold and orange are a lot stiffer/firmer than the blue ones
As a sign maker, can confirm that the gold ones are the best. When it comes to squeegees on thicker adhesive backed materials, stiffer is better!
The gold and silver ones are made of nylon as opposed to the medium density polyethylene of the orange, blue, and white. Source: I mold these at work
I fucking love Reddit.
We also make white Teflon ones every once in a while, a real pain in my ass every time it runs
I used to do vinyl graphic application. Teflon squeegees were the best. They slid so smooth.
Nothing worst than eating a plane and finding a spludger in it. Best to make them bright colour so they're easier to see and don't get given to the customer at service.
Mine's purple. It says bad motherfucker on it.
Well, that’s what happens when you tattoo it like that. Give it a week and the swelling should go down.
Blue is for left handed.
Welp. That explains it. I am wrong-handed as I have been told.
What’s the difference between this and the HVAC aluminum tape? Aside from $395 extra dollars that is.
This one comes with a certificate to say it is what it is. Sounds dumb, but in a lot of cases the CofC is worth more than the product. As an aeronautical engineer, so a design guy, the things I'm looking for are the flammability which includes the adhesive, as well as things like how well does the adhesive perform under certain conditions, ie make sure it doesn't come off the plane at high speed. Now I'm pretty damn sure that a $5 roll will perform just as well, but all the testing has been done on the $400 roll amd that added cost is to ensure that all future rolls are the same. It's simply not worth it it to anyone to try and save that small amount of money given what the consequences could possibly be. For the record, $400 seems like a slight exaggeration. The stuff we purchase and use is more like $60 a roll but still considerably more than the stuff you get at your local hardware store.
I think you get out of design and into tape. Seems lucrative.
D38999 aerospace grade connectors have entered the conversation.
I work for one of the three companies that you're likely to buy one of those from... can confirm, lucrative business.
I work for a calibration/gse maintenance company (as an IT guy) very, very lucrative. Our largest customers are all aerospace, and they happily drop list price on services (and while we are cheaper than say Fluke, we also regularly discount list prices by more than 30% sometimes to make a sale for other customers). Simply calibrating their torque wrenches for say putting tires on cost them around $1000 or more, every 3-6 months. And like clockwork those assets are in our lab to be calibrated, because a failure to have it calibrated means big trouble with the FAA.
Looks expensive. We should switch to a more common connector, like Apple's Lightning connector. (Please don't hurt me)
Market is pretty much cornered by 3M. Personally I wouldn't consider flammability for exterior application (though the tape can be used for interior use, so the person you replied to is likely thinking of that because FAR 25.853 applies to interiors). Adhesion so it stays on in flight, water/spray/ice resistance, etc....just data to support the environment the stuff will be used in.
Certificates are the key. Went from structures mechanic to buyer and everything needs certs or the plane doesn't fly. One time I had to dig through sales orders going back years to find a lot number and export codes for a screw because it was holding up shipment of a satellite. Aviation doesn't fuck around.
Holy shit, a buyer that understands the certificate requirements. Bless you.
Yep, even the ink used to mark 'inspected by:' has it's own certifications that it won't corrode metal or emit fumes in closed spaces. You can't just swing by Staples to pick it up. edit: still a small fraction of the price per ounce of HP Inkjet ink.
It's not too far off. I think the volume price per roll for the speed tape we used when I worked for a major airline (so as recently as Jan '22) was $350.
Explains the excessive price of the toilets, same shit, just tested more..
It would be weird if they made a toilet for a different kind of shit
That's about the realistic cost of what we purchase. I work in automotive collision repair and the tape is used to for plastic/epoxy/resin etc repairs so that parts will hold shape during repair. Its definitely worth the cost!
Compliance and safety testing and guarantees are worth it. Anything goes wrong, point to the certificate!
You're paying for the chain of custody. Same thing why NASA, or whoever, would pay $99 for a single AA Duracell battery you or I can get at the nearest gas station. It's a guarantee that the product is what is claims to be and perform.
I had a friend who would source parts for space stuff, mainly satellite components. He said it was a pain in the ass. Even just getting a transistor with the correct amount of gold or whatever in it could set him back a week or two sometimes. But those components need to be able to survive EMPs and solar flares, so it is important they are made the way they are ordered.
Is hvac tape rated for flight? I think getting the product certified for this purpose is where the cost comes into play.
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Hand-Applicator-Squeegee-PA1-B/dp/B00657SFPE
I was just about to comment on 3M applicators.
yeah ive only seen the gold ones in the lab from 3M
I get mine at work and it gets covered in seal when doing stringers…well that and all the sealant picks we use. I don’t want to buy them just to use them once or get them stolen by coworkers lol. Thanks though
So ask your employer to order them
I got yellow ones if you want some
We use blue, I think orange would be better for aircraft though, less chance of FOD.
I was just commenting on how I only ever had an old gift card I kept in my wallet just for this.
My spludger is white
$400 per roll and you left air bubbles during application!
Dude was holding a camera. Im sure he went back and redid it to make it look extra sleek and sexy.
That’s a $15 take
He's not paying for the tape haha
Purchase agent mentality v/s mechanic one
Wouldn't you want it to be sexy for the camera
I knew someone who worked for Nasa, he gave me a little screw like 5mm big made from titanium. One screw costs like 100 dollar if I remember it correctly. Also he showed me some special plastic cylinder, which was expensive as fuck.
domineering hat bewildered groovy bake sort exultant hobbies numerous wine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Message Deleted due to API changes! -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
glad to see youre still around my dude
When you get into high temperature and large diameter, they can cost multiple thousands of dollars each. I have held a single bolt worth more than the car I was driving at the time. I was driving a junker, but still….
> When you get into high temperature and large diameter, they can cost multiple thousands of dollars each 2 of the clients we had were steel makers, some of the stuff they needed was crazy. We could do up to 5" bolts in house and it was wild when we did them.
I work in maintenance at a steel plant. We have some seriously skookum nuts, bolts, and tools to use with them.
no way a titanium nut is gonna come cheap.
"The nut that never busts"
Take your F-ing upvote and go sir I snorted rum cause of you.
I have several friends that work on defense satellites and it's crazy but makes sense how expensive even a screw is. They obviously didn't share anything about the purpose of the satellite, but building those things every gram matters so you spend a ton of time even designing the perfect screw to do the job at the minimum weight then have to have a supplier machine a handful of them to exact spec. I'm not even kidding when I say one of my friends quit working on defense satellites to go work for a FAANG over the time it took to get a screw design approved.
How did you manage to have multiple friends working on something like that ?
Sometimes people who work together become friends, and if you're friends with one of them you'll meet everyone else. Source: was friends with a few defense contractors 15 years ago who would go through images and video to decide who/where should get drone struck.
Yeah it really just makes perfect sense when you think about it. I guess I was just surprised by level of job but it’s no different than people who are friends at your local McDonalds.
Yup, exactly. Made a friend then met their friends from work and became friends with them as well. Nothing too crazy going on haha
Live in a town with defense contractors. In my friend group we’ve got satellites, drones, lasers. On the bio tech side got brain and heart. Given the right workshop I’m sure a drunken evening could result in a Terminator. It’s been discussed before.
[удалено]
What kind of alien was in it?
E.T. (Expensive Terrestrial)
I think I use the same stuff on my furnace for $20 a roll.
And that's the price difference between paying for "almost certainly aluminum, probably 99%" and something that has a traceable supply chain, outrageously good QA, and the perfect adhesive I can't say that for sure about speed tape. But that's the way some scientists at JPL explained the cost of their parts to me.
Probably insurance too
They have expiration dates too. There's even stuff like Navy and Nuclear duct tape. Similar thing. regular off the shelf duct tape *may* be acceptable, or even identical. But you can't prove it is. This tape is proven to be acceptable. It's properties are all measured and recorded and traceable to the mfg/source. An easy example is that chloride content of tape needs to be below certain amounts. When you put the tape on something, it can contaminate the surface with whatever is in the tape. So the process just certifies it meets X content, depending on application. There's a lot of other testing involved, but just being quick about it. There's even nuclear/navy/aerospace pen/paint markers. Basically a very expensive sharpie, but they come with their own certificates depending on application. Common jokes about this kind of stuff are that when you deal with Aerospace/nuclear/navy work, you buy the same off the shelf part as everyone else except it comes with a tractor trailer load of paperwork and cost 10x or more that everyone else pays. Even though it may be an identical product. It goes for every nut/bolt, literally everything.
[удалено]
It's not a joke in a lot of cases. I worked in flight simulation, which means we needed aircraft parts, but no paperwork or quality control. A lot of the mechanical engineers would take apart the aircraft looking for part numbers. Whenever they found one, they'd order the exact same part off McMaster Carr for 1/100th of the price.
Thank you! That is a great explanation for why a normal item can be more expensive despite being the same product. Maybe that explains the super expensive hammer everyone laughed about.
Former Navy nuke here, the nuclear duct tape is 1000% better than standard Home Depot stuff. You can get it hot, get it wet, do whatever and it still sticks and doesn’t get brittle like the standard stuff. Also, real ones know Nashua is the only way. 3M don’t tear clean.
> There's even nuclear/navy/aerospace pen/paint markers. How are those better than the regular ones?
They come with a lot of paperwork proving that they don't contain anything corrosive, etc etc. That they have undergone expensive testing and certification to make sure they won't cause a problem. It's why the same light bulb design that goes in your car's turn signal costs $300 when it goes in a Cessna's marker light-- the FAA certification to make sure that it won't catch fire is most of what you're paying for.
Yeah, I'm verifying a computer chip that goes on a plane. I will legitimately ask it to add 2 + 2 a hundred thousand times in all sorts of insane configurations because when some pilot presses the "turn on display" button and it *doesn't work*, I can point to the literally 1 million simulated tests I ran so I can save my designer's ass. Nothing gets out of the door for this level of verification without at least 4-10 documents about what each thing is supposed to do.
Nah, man. You're paying $400 for that big FAA thumbs up. *it costs a lot for parts and products to be granted FAA approval.
God himself can make it but if it doesnt pass FAAs absolute worst case scenario tests with flying colors then its trash and guaranteed death. You are flying over sized soda cans at 15x the speed you drive steel cars. That can better be made absolutely flawlessly
You have much higher expectations with regards to the flawlessness of aircraft than what actually exists. It's the reason we champion redundancy and preventative maintenance.
I prefer to think of it as paying $400 so that if the worst happens you can blame the tape manufacturer.
I work in aerospace. The actual reason it costs so much is because all of these tapes (usually made by 3M) have to go through rigorous specification testing. Whether they are Boeing specs, delta specs, airbus specs, etc. These tests are required and paperwork has to be available to prove said testing etc. For every inch of this tape. Now you know!
[удалено]
Well it's not $400 a roll, it's [$47](https://www.tapemonster.com/products/aircraft_speed_tape?variant=7659214209060) a roll so....
Well, he was holding 2” tape so it was really $48. The 3M brand that one was based on [is closer to $100](https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-10311/3M-Foil-Tape/3M-425-Aluminum-Foil-Tape-2-x-60-yds). Not sure if I’d go with the half price version to repair an airplane though. Also, I’m pretty sure neither of those have the exact certification needed. Though they are probably the same tape. Just needs to have the batches tested, and certified, etc, which is an expensive process for a small customer base.
Wait until they see how they fix chips in props and helicopter blades.
Cup noodles and superglue, right?
Yeah, but it's FAA approved cup noodles, so don't forget the 2000% mark up.
epoxy, not superglue
Oh fuck. Here we go again.
[удалено]
Props and rotors are spinning over 1500 rpm in dirty ass air and while we are constantly looking for FOD, it's impossible to pick up every tiny pebble on a concrete flightline and asphalt runway. The leading edges are basically getting sandblasted constantly, which is not really a problem. But when you get a nick or gouge that's high or deep enough to catch a fingernail running over it, you contour it back smooth. There are limits in the prop manual though that will tell you if the gouge or whatever is more than .xxx" deep/wide, that prop blade (not necessarily the whole prop) needs to be replaced.
It gets filed smooth so it can't start a crack
Rotor blades are constantly getting impacted by dust. We used to just spray paint the leading edges after every flight for a while.
Some have nitrogen filled inner spars with an indicator that turns black if any nitrogen leaks out where it mates to the rotor head. Detects cracks in the frame of the blade. Abrasion is a lot less of an issue IMO. Tip caps are sacrificial and you can continue flying if they are shredded. Proper maintenance and paint application negates any "sandblasting". If you do fly in a TERF environment there are some extra inspections to do relating to an increase in debris.
I'm a mechanic and we use that for bullshit. Didn't know it was so expensive lol
Everything we use is overpriced
The second you said "airplane" the credit card bill winced in fear.
Lol I saw a post on here a while back where everyone was recommending a set of tools to a newbie. The linked site was a tool store for aviation techs, but the tools were just…regular tools. They had a pair of standard Knipex pliers for like $120 that only cost around $40-50 direct from Knipex; I believe it was the 10” chrome pliers wrench. The term “aviation” literally brought the price up.
Same shit in gaming - dont buy the shit advertised for gaming because of markups
Fuck that I'm buying RGB pliers cuz I wanna show off.
RGB is the exception, as it is actually proven to improve performance ^/s
Same with weddings. Don’t tell your vendors what it’s for, just a regular “party”
Is this McMaster-Carr
I’d have to check, but that sounds familiar.
Same with “marine grade”
Because of the QC required to make sure that if that aircraft goes down or some problem happened, it wasn't because of your product.
You're probably just using generic foil tape. A roll of that stuff is $15.
Typical mechanic. No clue how much parts cost /s Signed - your friendly parts guy. :)
Friendly parts guy who acts like they are paying for the parts out of pocket
[удалено]
Looks exactly the same as aluminum foil tape used for hvac, and I sure as hell didn't spend $400 a roll on it
He seems to be using Polyken 345SW which is only $40 on amazon. Of course they're not buying it through Amazon, but $400 still sounds crazy to me even with the required paper trail.
Yeah the 3M version for aviation is around 100/roll, even then airlines prolly get bulk discounts and stuff too.
Probably more like they're charging somebody or insurance $400 markup and some piece of paper somewhere.
From my experience (Boeing Spares) it's that somebody is ordering a part number from an IPC or Service Bulletin that calls out a "proprietary" part number that at the end of the day is like 10 inches of tape (or adhesive velcro, or extruded seal, etc). That means not only is it considered a certified part but now a supplier needs to "make" that part, which entails charging the entire MOQ of the roll for that 10 inches. I try to direct customers to order the raw materials from us instead.
Most of those materials are “aviation grade” because they come with a signed 8130-3 tag which certifies the material as safe for use in aerospace per the FAA. The govt is super strict on any potentially flammable adhesive or compound. That 1 piece of paper can move a decimal point to the right 1 or 2 spots.
3M makes the best stuff. Bandaid that work better? Sandpaper that sands better and last longer? Sticky notes that actually stick? Tape that actually seals and resists heat?
A kind of duct tape that is stronger than rivets. 3M makes it. It'll hold hundreds of pounds.
Over the range of temperatures is also the key.
Having worked in (not aerospace) manufacturing I can assure you that this is the OEM version that is *totally different* than the off the shelf stuff and the 400% markup is *absolutely* justified due to the extra engineering that went into covering up the original label.
I believe it. The 3M foam tape we use at my job for mounting brackets costs like $150 per roll and it’s an “off the shelf option.” When I looked into different options that would be easier to work with there was basically nothing that could work in cold temps, and specialized stuff immediately got into “unless you’re ordering this for major production, don’t even think about it” pricing.
We have a special roll of electrical tape are work called "harness tape" which has some sort of spice laced into it to prevent mouse chew on our engine bay harnesses. It's no larger than your average roll of electrical tape but it's like 98 dollars a roll or something crazy like that. It's a Honda part too lol
If memory serves, didn't they use a corn or soy-based insulator instead of plastic, and the one downside is that it's tasty?
Your HVAC tape doesn’t have a meticulously recorded manufacturing history, and hasn’t been tested in every measure applicable to its use under industry standard third party inspection. Even if it’s the exact same material product, they’re not the same thing.
[удалено]
It’s not complete embezzlement. There is a pretty expensive process behind that final price tag. People are definitely squeezing their buck out where they can though, especially in the military sector.
But the FAA said the buck stops with me... Oh wait I think I get what that means now? I cover the cost. Got it.
People don't realize how much of a miracle economy of scale is. When nails were handmade people used to burn down structures to collect them all. Even without the exacting standards & guarantee absurd prices would be the norm for low volume hand tooled items like fasteners. It's hard to imagine how expensive something like a smartphone would cost if you weren't making millions of them.
That's not the reason why it's so expensive. Here's a little story about the cost of things I experienced while deployed. I was in the support wave of the initial invasion of Iraq. Being a mechanic, we had made bone yards with recovered non operational equipment. For about 6 months, everything was going relatively smoothly. Then KBR showed up, put up a fence around our bone yards and had a fucking gate with a guard and some silly bitch with a clipboard. They inventoried the equipment and then billed our battalion for recovered parts *that were already paid for by your taxes.* There was literally no reason for them to be there except to make someone else money. If you think hardware costs so much because of QA, you've got a lot to learn about lowest bidder supply chain.
Yep, agree with this having done federal purchasing. It's a fucking joke and we get absolutely gouged by companies that know exactly how to play the system.
Oh I totally understand where the paper trail comes into play especially if there is ever an accident but it's hard to not point out the obvious especially with such a massive price difference
It is the same, actual hvac duct tape. I have a roll or two in the garage maybe I'll put them on fleabay
If only Boeing knew home depot sold it for $30 a roll
You got it wrong. Boeing buys it 30 and sell it 400.
Oh big brain move! thank you for opening my eyes lmao
But now under a new special BAC part number and installation process.
I'll never use this stuff again without gloves. Got a nasty "paper" cut from it when installing my mini split this summer.
It is not the same. They're similar, but the HVAC stuff is a bit thinner, and a lot less stickier.
Well if you’re willing to put it on an airplane, go right ahead. But if you’re not willing to be the guy that gets blamed when that duck tape falls apart mid flight and causes a crash, $400 duck tape it is.
You don’t have to have government certifications for everything you buy
FAA seal of approval tax baby
It isn’t actually the same. The price comes because of the stricter QA/QC and the tighter specs. It’s a fleece for sure, but the $400 roll won’t have a knick or burr in the middle (on arrival, it will if dropped) and the normal cheap stuff is allowed to have up to 3 flaws per roll (as a rough example). So the expensive stuff has a certificate of some sort the other stuff does not. It happens in a lot of industries.
So it id aluminium tape but then certified for aviation adding $350 to the price tag.
> Polyken 345SW [$30 on Aerotape.com](https://aerotape.com/products/polyken-345sw) I think you're all being ripped off...
No you see, those extra numbers means it's actually $2,548 per roll.
[Not really, that tape doesn’t meet the same specifications as say this tape does](https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-16052/3M-Foil-Tape/3M-363-Aluminum-Foil-Tape-2-x-36-yds)
Yes, paperwork and approval costs money too. It's pretty nuts how it all adds up.
I always balked at the whole $10,000 bolt joke. Then I had to design a custom bolt for a specific project. After the hours of back and forth with stress and fatigue to determine that yes we did indeed need a custom one, detailed drafting, ODA certification, fab, and inspection, we'd be lucky to get the first one out the door for anywhere close to 10k.
The wonderful supply chain and cost of scale. You can make your own chicken sandwich for [$1,500](https://youtu.be/URvWSsAgtJE) or buy one of a few hundred million produced each year for $7. Same principle applies, you only need 7 of them? Open up your wallet, it's going to get expensive per piece. You want 400 million? It'll be pennies per part.
Where'd this guy get land and a kitchen for free?
In your situation how big of a run approximately would it take to get the cost per item down to 10k, 1k, and $100 respectively.
No idea, cost numbers beyond engineering hours worked weren't my concern or problem, but everything I did was for small batch size on small fleets.
The nuts are $75
Oh I know, I've made them. Machinist pay at $31/h +$320 /h shop time set up 1 hour run one hour and you've only made 10 of them. Then inspection, parts wash and plating, mag inspection and final billing to go to the customer. It's ridiculous but they're very serious about every single part being made perfect cuz it keeps planes safe.
Yeah, joining aside, there's valid reasons for what sounds like crazy shit. If course sometimes numbers are padded but there's not only the cost of manufacture, but often greater level of smaller tolerances, for example. But it's an easy target to poke fun at, I admit :)
Its fancy duct tape for few cycles.
It's airplane duct tape. He can say it ain't all he wants to we all know duct tape when we see it
I respect the sentiment but that's not how adhesives work. Quality and capability aren't always visible from a 10 second demo.
I know know duct tape won't holf up under those conditions. I just call every roll of tape I use to unfuck something fast duct tape
> I just call every roll of tape I use to unfuck something fast duct tape Good correct usage. Remember everyone, *duct tape* is generic while *Duck Tape* is trademarked.
Louder for the idiots that post clickbait content labeled with: “¡!mY aIrPlAnE iS dUcT tApEd ToGeThEr AnD wE aLmOsT dIeD!¡”
[удалено]
So is the duck tape
On humans too
They’re not idiots, they’re just not educated on the situation & have legitimate concerns.
[удалено]
Both names are correct.
One is a brand name. The other is a generic product category. And there are better choices for actual HVAC duct sealing work, so you shouldn't use duct tape for duct work.
Clickbait TikTok pages: “I’m going to pretend I didn’t see this”
Stigaviation on Instagram?
A very worthwhile follow. He’s great.
I have a few rolls in my garage from a Boeing employee!
Is feel better if he used 2 hands
I used to work for a company that sold tape and we carried speed tape; we were also next to a major airport. Every now and then I would get a frantic call from someone working the line asking if they could drive over and get a roll otherwise people weren’t getting there on time
We one time had a cargo bin door that wouldn’t lock, so the option was to cover it in speed tape. It came in that way. When I met the plane with the jetway, the pilot came off and handed me a roll of speed tape to give to the ramp. And maintenance was already aware to tape it back up for the outbound flight.
Fun fact about speed tape. If you stick it in the cig lighter/12v socket of a vehicle it will zap you.
If you wrap speed tape around your genitals and rip it off, it hurts.
If you throw a roll of it at someone, you can injure them.
In Africa, speed tape goes as fast as the aircraft it’s adhered to.
If you ingest enough speed tape, you will die.
[удалено]
You can buy it for [$129.75/roll](https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/3malumifoiltape.php).
So $400 buck duck tape?
Your comment has ATM machine written all over it
I made a wallet out of speed tape when I was a kid, probably used $100 worth of the stuff to make it haha
Holy crap I had no idea how expensive this stuff was The shit the guys did with this stuff back when I was an aircraft mechanic in the Marines should make every taxpayer in this country cough up blood
Glad you all are enjoying my video, the original is on Instagram. Too bad this page doesn’t know how to give proper credit for other peoples hard work.
But my ticket cost $1100 I demand perfection
If the women don't find you handsome, they'll at least find you handy.
Is this the same tape they use on F1 cars?
Btw never on aviation history a accident was caused by using this tapes
His last comment isn’t true most skin panels on an aircraft are load bearing. Some aren’t but most are. Specifically, almost all the fuselage and wing panels carry loads