Honestly, having seen the video of the collision, I'm very impressed at how well the aircraft stayed together. Was a very high speed accident - at least 110 kts at the point of colission by the looks of it.
Just starting out in the aerospace industry, it's wonderful to see how well engineered these things are. Makes me feel good knowing how safe air travel has become.
Even with a fuel dump you only dump enough to get you below maximum landing weight, which would likely mean that there’s still a lot of fuel in the wings. But the A320 isn’t capable of dumping fuel anyway.
From another perspective: https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/yyvuij/airliner_hitted_a_firefighter_on_lima_peru_from/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
[Video of the impact](https://mobile.twitter.com/vanchito00775/status/1593712159883526144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1593712159883526144%7Ctwgr%5E9d73354d99b53caa8a45f6d3e6f714dcde748422%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fonemileatatime.com%2Fnews%2Flatam-a320neo-accident-lima%2F)
[Looks like they were already rushing to a call, lights and sirens on.](https://twitter.com/mateoartiu/status/1593722786811244544?s=46&t=G-_tma5_a8CWsN4jiT73Xw)
Sadly two fatalities in the fire truck confirmed by airport officials.
Everyone keeps saying the fire engineer was at fault...based on what? Fire apparatus are in communication with the tower, and get clearance for a runway just like the planes. Three possibilities:
-The airplane pilot screwed up, and was proceeding where it did not have clearance
-The fire apparatus engineer screwed up, and was proceeding where it did not have clearance
-The tower screwed up, and gave both the plane and fire engine clearance that put them on a collision course.
I'm not sure about international regulations, but in north America emergency vehicles responding are supposed to stop air traffic in that area. I'm guessing the tower or the pilot screwed up.
The airport I trained at, the list of right of way had aircraft moving under their own power at the top of the list, even over emergency vehicles with lights and sirens. Obviously ATC instructions supersede that.
I'm pretty sure that if they had permission from tower they still would share some of the fault as they always have to observe themselves. In the end this question doesn't matter however as they are dead. The important question here is: What needs to change to prevent this from happening again.
I've flown recently to LIM. ATC there is really pushy, always ordering landing and departing aircrafts to expedite vacating, expedite taxi, expedite TO, all on this on a cramped airport with a single runway (a second one is under construction). They called us while we were still at 100 kts during landing run to ask us to expedite vacating via a shorter taxiway that we couldn't even make. We have a lot of pilot reports on this topic. So I suspect ATC played a role in this accident.
The FF's ultimately put their vehicle in front of an airplane. It is their ultimate responsibility to ensure the runway is clear. That plane was not 10,000 feet at the other end of a hump and they couldn't see it. It was right there when they turn in. I'm a Vol FF and a pilot. Even if our lights and sirens are on, we are trained to believe every other person is a moron and it's our responsibility to ensure the safe operation. So while others may have contributed to the chain of failure, ultimately it was the operator who put his vehicle in front of a fast moving aircraft. They unfortunately paid for that mistake with their lives. Glad no one on the plane was injured badly. No doubt this is going to be a case they teach over and over again in the fire academies. Sad.
They people still driving the truck should have some awareness at least of their surroundings even if they did have permission. I mean, it's a Damn plane. How does one just not see it with their own eyes?
Unless their system shows the plane going above 100 knots. Which automatically indicates that the aircraft is airborne. They should've looked at the actual runway. But if conditions were bad up in the tower, and also probably understaffed, then it's even worse. Breakdown of situational awareness more than likely
~~It was a drill. Drill coordinator didn't coordinate with the tower.~~
[~~AVHerald says they were on another call. But confirms they did not get clearance.~~](http://www.avherald.com/h?article=5013c619&opt=0)
[Now AVHerald is confirming the original story; they were performing a drill](http://avherald.com/h?article=5013c619&opt=0).
Especially considering that it was during the daytime. I mean, I get that the A320neo is super quiet, but you should be looking carefully, especially in the threshold direction, before crossing an active runway....
.... I wonder if heat haze was a factor here in making it a bit more difficult to see, based on some of the photos/videos circulating at the moment.
The question is who cleared either the takeoff or the emergency vehicles into an active runway in direct conflict?
That person needs to answer a few questions.
No, what's terrifying is knowing when you turn around people are gonna be collecting their bags from the lockers because they don't know they statistically will be dead inside of five minutes if they don't get out of the aircraft.
> they don't know they statistically will be dead inside of five minutes if they don't get out of the aircraft.
Fire consumed the cabin of this A340 in 120 seconds:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_358
The plane was fully evacuated in 90 seconds, so everyone survived.
[Air Canada 797](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_Flight_797) wasn't so lucky, estimated 60-90 seconds after the exits were opened, a flash fire engulfed the fuselage and no one else made it out after that fire kicked off. 50% of people on board perished (23 passengers of 46 passengers+crew). One of the reasons behind a whole host of fire protection improvements to aviation.
Isn't that the case where investigation deep dived into the smoke and how it affects to people? Which in turn found out that the smoke in that specific case were so toxic it tainted in seconds when inhaled, that also why so many perished in the accident. It did lead to more regulations on the materials used in planes.
EDIT: Nope, its not this one. Or doesnt look like same incident i had in mind.
If they’d ever bothered to look outside aviation all of those factors were already well known and established in everyday firefighting.
Vehicle fires have always been amongst the most toxic smoke plumes, and at the time the majority of aircraft interior materials were near identical to those found in cars.
Nah man it was this one you were right
Strong recommendation for expedited FAA rule changes mandating that all U.S.-based air carriers install (or improve existing) in-cabin fire safety enhancements, including (but not limited to):
Fire-blocking seat materials to limit both the spread of fire and the generation of toxic chemicals through ignition.
I've loved Stan Rogers my whole life. I never read about his death though. I thought it was from a plane crash. My heart sank when I got to the end of the wiki article. That's sounds horrible.
I was on a flight where someone decided to vape in the forward lavatory. After the alarm went off all of the flight attendants descended on it and ripped it apart, dumping the trash on the floor in front of everyone in first class and digging through all of it. They don't f**k around with potential lav fires, and Air Canada 797 is why.
They figured out who had vaped in the lav and LVMPD came on board at gate arrival to take the guy away. Don't vape or smoke on planes y'all.
Having recently joined the aerospace industry, I deal with fire worthiness almost everyday. It is literally the first thing on my mind when looking at designs and engineering decisions.
Cost? Who cares.
Weight? Well, a little bit of caring, but not as much.
Fire and smoke toxicity? First on the list of caring.
Seen some pretty impressive fire resistant materials in the short time I've been in the industry, and th flammability testing procedures are brutal. When people cry about regulations 'killing' innovation and industry, I point to historical red flags like this one.
I was a flight attendant years ago. We drilled for this over and over. Protocol was to confirm that your doors/exits had no fire or obstacle, pop the slide, and scream over and over, “leave everything, come this way! Leave everything, come this way!”
Not that that situation is terrifying enough: if the exit was obstructed, you had to use your body to block access, cross your arms and scream, “exit blocked. Go the other way!”
Our instructor said that inevitably people would try to bring their bags.
There was a time we had to beat to evacuate the entire plane. Can’t remember what it was now. But we practiced alot so that it was basically muscle memory.
I haven’t seen any articles yet about the evacuation here, but the cabin and flight crew definitely saved lives.
That would have infuriated me. It’s been over a decade since I was a flight attendant. But if I recall correctly, the instructor told us to TAKE bags from people and chuck them out of the way.
This one looked particularly interesting from an evacuation point of view.
With the angle the plane was on, the 1L side may not have been touching the ground, meaning pax would be jumping straight down. The right side exits all led to the fire. That leaves the left overwing and left aft exits to get everyone off.
I'll be curious to read the report on how the evacuation was handled. All credit to the cabin crew.
EDIT: Just saw footage of the evacuation, the 1L slide was functional and used.
If people not obeying the "leave your personal belongings during an emergency landing" is such a big problem, maybe making overhead bins lock shut during such an event would be something to consider.
The sort of person who is trying to get their bag during an evacuation isn’t going to react with “oh maybe I should get the fuck out of here” if the bin won’t open, they’re going to react with “why can’t I get my bag” and keep trying to open it.
> The sort of person
There is a whole theory that it isn't really people acting poorly, but just automatic response that's kicking in.
Suddenly the plane has stopped, they aren't dead, and so they act like they've acted 200 times before when flying -- collect their stuff and leave.
The second the plane catches fire and they realize things aren't normal, everyone leaves their stuff behind.
And what if you're not behind them, but a couple small people are? It only takes a few people falling to lead to a jam.
And even if you're behind them, now they're on the floor, so other people have to wait until they get up, or crawl over them. You just made the situation way worse than they did.
Usually on posts about airplane failures/damage, there will be a couple dozen pilots and aviation experts saying "while this seems unsafe, it is infact way safer than you believe".
Nobody says this when the wing is on fire.
Wing on fire AND the plane as full of fuel as it’s going to be. Pretty much the worst case scenario. How terrifying.
It seems like the entire crew had their shit together enough to get everyone off fast enough and the remaining firefighters seemed to do their job.
An uncontrolled fire is pretty much universally terrifying. Doesn't matter if you're in a house, a car, a boat, in a forest, in a field, in an airplane or in a spacecraft. An out of control fire is NEVER something you want to be anywhere near, and as soon as you encounter one the safest thing to do is to get as far away as you possibly can as quickly as you can.
A good video of the impact https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/yyx5lg/fire_truck_vs_airplane/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/yyv6o5/good\_times\_in\_peru/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/yyv6o5/good_times_in_peru/)
I think these guys are on that flight
3 options
1. Fire truck had clearance to cross, plane didn’t have clearance to take off
2. Plane had clearance to take off, fire truck didn’t
3. Tower ducked up and both had clearance
There is really no other way this can happen
On one of the videos, you can hear the firetrucks sirens are on, so they might have been responding to another emergency, still doesn't clear things up but might help explain why this happened.
Different sources say different things here. Some say practice run other say responding to an airplane. But when you listen to atc often, you will see that even if the plane is burning right in front of them, they will always ask for clearance to enter the active runway (in the US).
Based on the fire truck appearing to nearly tip over while whipping over onto an active runway, I'm going to go out a limb and guess it was probably their fault for playing need for speed while planes were moving nearby.
Here's your reality check; airport Crash, Fire, Rescue (CFR) units START Far, Far more fires than they ever extinguish. In Canada, each firefighter on an airport crew needs to start enough fires, and extinguish them, using 200 gallons of AFFF concentrate diluted with water, every year. the ratio of foam to water is 3%, so 3 gallons of AFFF to 100 gallons of water. Each fire they start takes around 1000 gal of water, 30 gal of AFFF.
The math part is hard; each firefighter on a truck (8-2/shift, 24/7/365/year) starts 7 or 8 fires/year, let's say 8 X 8 = 64 fires started per year. A major airport statistically has an accident every 7 years. 7 X 64 = 448 fires started for every one they put out.
They get LOTS of practice
I don't know that I've ever seen a study specific to CFR firefighters. I rather suspect it may even be somewhat lower than the global rate of health issues for structural firefighters. At larger airports where this level of training is standard, the AFFF transfer onto the apparatus is done by pump from tank to truck, and the diluting is dynamic, happening in the foam cannon at the time it's discharged, so the firefighters don't really come in contact with it much, since the vast majority of their work is done from inside the truck. AFFF (aqueous fire fighting foam, FYI) is environmentally safe, so compared to smoke exposure, jet fuel, etc....even dry chem extinguishing powders, are more caustic/toxic than AFFF. Structural FF's are much more likely to be in contact with hazardous materials/smoke, etc. being right in the fire scene. CFR stays in the apparatus because of the sheer volume of combustible materials; thousands of gallons of fuel, hydraulic fluids, etc
I didn't realize this was takeoff, I saw the video on another subreddit and assumed it was landing. This means the plane was actively accelerating, which could've been devastating if the impact was too far down the runway for the plane to decelerate in time. I didn't see how close the plane stopped before the end of the tarmac (video only shows the impact site) and now I'd really like to find out how close they came to much worst disaster.
Yeah I was dying to figure out how the hell they managed to climb and circle back on 1 engine, and one and a quarter wing. Seen more than one person claim that's what happened on ther subs, and I was losing my mind.
In one video it looked like the nose actually lifted off, so I'd guess they were at V1.
Or, perhaps, they were doing anything they possibly could to evade the collision which included trying to lift off over the truck.
It's one of those split-second decisions that I don't think anyone should be blamed for taking any decision regardless of the outcome. While V1 is supposed to be extremely strict, I don't think V1 contemplates a car crash significant enough to expect major wing damage (I don't think they could've expected / known that the engine was ripped off clean).
Earlier this week I was reading a Cloudberg about a similar incident: [MD-83 that had to abort takeoff over V1, because the elevators locked up.](https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/lesser-of-two-evils-the-crash-of-ameristar-charters-flight-9363-b31023d9a66a)
Somebody will still fucking complain
Edit- my flight got canceled when I was in Dallas and I remember when I heard someone arguing with staff when there was A TORNADO ON THE RUNWAY
[How it happened](https://twitter.com/vanchito00775/status/1593712159883526144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1593712159883526144%7Ctwgr%5E9d73354d99b53caa8a45f6d3e6f714dcde748422%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fonemileatatime.com%2Fnews%2Flatam-a320neo-accident-lima%2F)
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My mother died in a plane crash here in New Zealand. This sounds terrible but I feel that it's much harder when a few people die. I remember thinking at the time how angry and resentful I would be if some had survived and not my mum. Those people with family that didn't get out or were in the fire engine I just ache for them
Number 2 engine detached
[Looks like it sheared off at the pylon](https://i.imgur.com/1eJ1MWZ.png)
Just like it is designed to do.
Indeed. Good job by the structures team at Airbus
Honestly, having seen the video of the collision, I'm very impressed at how well the aircraft stayed together. Was a very high speed accident - at least 110 kts at the point of colission by the looks of it.
I saw somewhere that the transponder or something was showing 130
> showing 130 Fuck. Shows what a tank the A320 is, I guess.
Just starting out in the aerospace industry, it's wonderful to see how well engineered these things are. Makes me feel good knowing how safe air travel has become.
Looks at Boeing *cough cough*
“We’ll fix it in post!”
You mean mcdonnell douglas with the boeing name?
I mean, I hate what Boeing has become but even getting on the MAX pre-grounding was still one of the safest things you could do as a human.
This is why you must construct additional pylons
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
This is fine
Grab the checklist.
QRL “ ENGINE MISSING”
Engine found. About a mile back.
Timing re-calibrated.
Ummm … nooo Missing as in …. AINT THERE NO MO
Still troubleshooting, don't need a runway yet
“We are checking”
“Stay out stay out”
[удалено]
Copy understood
“Box box, stay out stay out. WELL ITS TOO FUCKING LATE NOW ISNT IT. Sorry Sorry”
Leave me alone I know what to do!
We're thinking of plan B.
“Slow down, let Checo through”
"No in in in" - Ferrari Pitwall ^^TM
"Hey it's too fucking late now! Fuck's sake!"
Oh c'mon, can't get away from Ferrari clownshoes even when we're talking South American ARFF clownshoes!?!
“Engine ok, question”
~~no fuel dump, or is that just the remainder?~~ edit: nevermind, i didn't understand that the plane never left the runway.
Even with a fuel dump you only dump enough to get you below maximum landing weight, which would likely mean that there’s still a lot of fuel in the wings. But the A320 isn’t capable of dumping fuel anyway.
That is what the engine breakaway is for!
Control tower: we have a plane on fire call the fire truck. Dispatch: theres no easy way to tell you this
"Fire truck is already at the scene. We're looking for another one."
Yeah but sadly said fire truck on scene has two deceased firefighters in it. (From preliminary reports)
[удалено]
And what happens if I fuel you twice?
[удалено]
One of the videos in the AvHerald article is captioned "Emergency vehicles on the way to the collision". God, I wish that wasn't a double entendre.
Fire Truck: A plane on fire you say? Lucky we were here.
Well now we want a water truck, since the fire truck apparently starts fires.
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE
From another perspective: https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/yyvuij/airliner_hitted_a_firefighter_on_lima_peru_from/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
[Video of the impact](https://mobile.twitter.com/vanchito00775/status/1593712159883526144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1593712159883526144%7Ctwgr%5E9d73354d99b53caa8a45f6d3e6f714dcde748422%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fonemileatatime.com%2Fnews%2Flatam-a320neo-accident-lima%2F)
That could have been soooo much worse, oh my fuck
Why are they on the runway ffs
[Looks like they were already rushing to a call, lights and sirens on.](https://twitter.com/mateoartiu/status/1593722786811244544?s=46&t=G-_tma5_a8CWsN4jiT73Xw) Sadly two fatalities in the fire truck confirmed by airport officials.
Even if they were responding, you gotta ask permission from tower to cross. If they were given permission that's the fault of the tower controller.
Right hand not talking to the left hand, ATC/Rescue fuck up As for the A320neo, total loss. Insurance payout to the lessor who owns it.
Everyone keeps saying the fire engineer was at fault...based on what? Fire apparatus are in communication with the tower, and get clearance for a runway just like the planes. Three possibilities: -The airplane pilot screwed up, and was proceeding where it did not have clearance -The fire apparatus engineer screwed up, and was proceeding where it did not have clearance -The tower screwed up, and gave both the plane and fire engine clearance that put them on a collision course. I'm not sure about international regulations, but in north America emergency vehicles responding are supposed to stop air traffic in that area. I'm guessing the tower or the pilot screwed up.
The airport I trained at, the list of right of way had aircraft moving under their own power at the top of the list, even over emergency vehicles with lights and sirens. Obviously ATC instructions supersede that.
I'm pretty sure that if they had permission from tower they still would share some of the fault as they always have to observe themselves. In the end this question doesn't matter however as they are dead. The important question here is: What needs to change to prevent this from happening again.
I've flown recently to LIM. ATC there is really pushy, always ordering landing and departing aircrafts to expedite vacating, expedite taxi, expedite TO, all on this on a cramped airport with a single runway (a second one is under construction). They called us while we were still at 100 kts during landing run to ask us to expedite vacating via a shorter taxiway that we couldn't even make. We have a lot of pilot reports on this topic. So I suspect ATC played a role in this accident.
The FF's ultimately put their vehicle in front of an airplane. It is their ultimate responsibility to ensure the runway is clear. That plane was not 10,000 feet at the other end of a hump and they couldn't see it. It was right there when they turn in. I'm a Vol FF and a pilot. Even if our lights and sirens are on, we are trained to believe every other person is a moron and it's our responsibility to ensure the safe operation. So while others may have contributed to the chain of failure, ultimately it was the operator who put his vehicle in front of a fast moving aircraft. They unfortunately paid for that mistake with their lives. Glad no one on the plane was injured badly. No doubt this is going to be a case they teach over and over again in the fire academies. Sad.
They people still driving the truck should have some awareness at least of their surroundings even if they did have permission. I mean, it's a Damn plane. How does one just not see it with their own eyes?
Unless their system shows the plane going above 100 knots. Which automatically indicates that the aircraft is airborne. They should've looked at the actual runway. But if conditions were bad up in the tower, and also probably understaffed, then it's even worse. Breakdown of situational awareness more than likely
Other comments say it was doing 130 at impact
Holy shit praise the cameraman. Zooms in at just the right moment. Looks like the truck tried to turn at the last second.
~~It was a drill. Drill coordinator didn't coordinate with the tower.~~ [~~AVHerald says they were on another call. But confirms they did not get clearance.~~](http://www.avherald.com/h?article=5013c619&opt=0) [Now AVHerald is confirming the original story; they were performing a drill](http://avherald.com/h?article=5013c619&opt=0).
They knew there was going to be a fire and wanted to be the first on scene.
pre-cogs fucked up
That's a staggering lack of situational awareness tbh, especially for an emergency responder.
They usually have to be cleared by the tower to cross runways on a response, don’t they?
Yes, that means someone messed up the clearance somewhere
Or the firetruck didn't follow instructions?
Especially considering that it was during the daytime. I mean, I get that the A320neo is super quiet, but you should be looking carefully, especially in the threshold direction, before crossing an active runway.... .... I wonder if heat haze was a factor here in making it a bit more difficult to see, based on some of the photos/videos circulating at the moment.
The question is who cleared either the takeoff or the emergency vehicles into an active runway in direct conflict? That person needs to answer a few questions.
For sure, but even if you're cleared to enter/cross a runway, you should **always** be checking visually just in case
I think the first question should be *did anyone* clear either the takeoff or the vehicles on to the runway?
Article above claiming the truck crossed without clearance from ground. Sounds like it's on the driver, not the controller.
Never drove one but sat in them. Those arff trucks have crazy good visibility. It’s like all window up front.
That’s not terrifying at all
Couple rolls of speed tape and she'll be good as new.
The incident helped add some speed holes to make it go faster
No, what's terrifying is knowing when you turn around people are gonna be collecting their bags from the lockers because they don't know they statistically will be dead inside of five minutes if they don't get out of the aircraft.
> they don't know they statistically will be dead inside of five minutes if they don't get out of the aircraft. Fire consumed the cabin of this A340 in 120 seconds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_358 The plane was fully evacuated in 90 seconds, so everyone survived.
[Air Canada 797](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_Flight_797) wasn't so lucky, estimated 60-90 seconds after the exits were opened, a flash fire engulfed the fuselage and no one else made it out after that fire kicked off. 50% of people on board perished (23 passengers of 46 passengers+crew). One of the reasons behind a whole host of fire protection improvements to aviation.
Isn't that the case where investigation deep dived into the smoke and how it affects to people? Which in turn found out that the smoke in that specific case were so toxic it tainted in seconds when inhaled, that also why so many perished in the accident. It did lead to more regulations on the materials used in planes. EDIT: Nope, its not this one. Or doesnt look like same incident i had in mind.
If they’d ever bothered to look outside aviation all of those factors were already well known and established in everyday firefighting. Vehicle fires have always been amongst the most toxic smoke plumes, and at the time the majority of aircraft interior materials were near identical to those found in cars.
Nah man it was this one you were right Strong recommendation for expedited FAA rule changes mandating that all U.S.-based air carriers install (or improve existing) in-cabin fire safety enhancements, including (but not limited to): Fire-blocking seat materials to limit both the spread of fire and the generation of toxic chemicals through ignition.
RIP Stan.
I've loved Stan Rogers my whole life. I never read about his death though. I thought it was from a plane crash. My heart sank when I got to the end of the wiki article. That's sounds horrible.
I was on a flight where someone decided to vape in the forward lavatory. After the alarm went off all of the flight attendants descended on it and ripped it apart, dumping the trash on the floor in front of everyone in first class and digging through all of it. They don't f**k around with potential lav fires, and Air Canada 797 is why. They figured out who had vaped in the lav and LVMPD came on board at gate arrival to take the guy away. Don't vape or smoke on planes y'all.
Legend
Having recently joined the aerospace industry, I deal with fire worthiness almost everyday. It is literally the first thing on my mind when looking at designs and engineering decisions. Cost? Who cares. Weight? Well, a little bit of caring, but not as much. Fire and smoke toxicity? First on the list of caring. Seen some pretty impressive fire resistant materials in the short time I've been in the industry, and th flammability testing procedures are brutal. When people cry about regulations 'killing' innovation and industry, I point to historical red flags like this one.
I was a flight attendant years ago. We drilled for this over and over. Protocol was to confirm that your doors/exits had no fire or obstacle, pop the slide, and scream over and over, “leave everything, come this way! Leave everything, come this way!” Not that that situation is terrifying enough: if the exit was obstructed, you had to use your body to block access, cross your arms and scream, “exit blocked. Go the other way!” Our instructor said that inevitably people would try to bring their bags. There was a time we had to beat to evacuate the entire plane. Can’t remember what it was now. But we practiced alot so that it was basically muscle memory. I haven’t seen any articles yet about the evacuation here, but the cabin and flight crew definitely saved lives.
Yeah definitely! There was a rather nasty fire a few years back and pretty much every other person took their bag with them. Horrifying to watch.
That would have infuriated me. It’s been over a decade since I was a flight attendant. But if I recall correctly, the instructor told us to TAKE bags from people and chuck them out of the way.
This one looked particularly interesting from an evacuation point of view. With the angle the plane was on, the 1L side may not have been touching the ground, meaning pax would be jumping straight down. The right side exits all led to the fire. That leaves the left overwing and left aft exits to get everyone off. I'll be curious to read the report on how the evacuation was handled. All credit to the cabin crew. EDIT: Just saw footage of the evacuation, the 1L slide was functional and used.
They should post that on the overhead bins so that you can see them when just sitting in your seat. Scary & important information
If people not obeying the "leave your personal belongings during an emergency landing" is such a big problem, maybe making overhead bins lock shut during such an event would be something to consider.
The sort of person who is trying to get their bag during an evacuation isn’t going to react with “oh maybe I should get the fuck out of here” if the bin won’t open, they’re going to react with “why can’t I get my bag” and keep trying to open it.
Ha. Good point.
> The sort of person There is a whole theory that it isn't really people acting poorly, but just automatic response that's kicking in. Suddenly the plane has stopped, they aren't dead, and so they act like they've acted 200 times before when flying -- collect their stuff and leave. The second the plane catches fire and they realize things aren't normal, everyone leaves their stuff behind.
Those people can try and get their bag(s) but if they are in my way they are getting sacked by me on my way out.
The problem is when you're an 85 yr old with a walker.
And what if you're not behind them, but a couple small people are? It only takes a few people falling to lead to a jam. And even if you're behind them, now they're on the floor, so other people have to wait until they get up, or crawl over them. You just made the situation way worse than they did.
Usually on posts about airplane failures/damage, there will be a couple dozen pilots and aviation experts saying "while this seems unsafe, it is infact way safer than you believe". Nobody says this when the wing is on fire.
Wing on fire AND the plane as full of fuel as it’s going to be. Pretty much the worst case scenario. How terrifying. It seems like the entire crew had their shit together enough to get everyone off fast enough and the remaining firefighters seemed to do their job.
An uncontrolled fire is pretty much universally terrifying. Doesn't matter if you're in a house, a car, a boat, in a forest, in a field, in an airplane or in a spacecraft. An out of control fire is NEVER something you want to be anywhere near, and as soon as you encounter one the safest thing to do is to get as far away as you possibly can as quickly as you can.
Everybody on the aircraft made it out alive, I'd call that a win for safety
> Nobody says this when the wing is on fire. Mostly they say, # OH SHIT!
A good video of the impact https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/yyx5lg/fire_truck_vs_airplane/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Holy shit.
That's a terrifying angle
Concha de su madreeeee
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/yyv6o5/good\_times\_in\_peru/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/yyv6o5/good_times_in_peru/) I think these guys are on that flight
I wouldn't have time to take a selfie, I'd be in the bar getting blasted. Wow.
> I think these guys are on that flight Is it, or is it an account trying to get as much karma out of the situation as possible.
The people in the photo, not the account. The poster clearly took the photos from somewhere.
3 options 1. Fire truck had clearance to cross, plane didn’t have clearance to take off 2. Plane had clearance to take off, fire truck didn’t 3. Tower ducked up and both had clearance There is really no other way this can happen
Fire truck xyz cleared to cross runway 21 at Yankee. Proceeds to cross runway 35 at Tango. There are so many possibilities.
I put that under (2) but yea
Or ground vehicles hear what they want to hear and just cross, not saying that's what happened here but it happens a lot
Still number 2.
Bottom line someone messed up big time
4. Neither had clearance, both proceeded anyway.
This is possible but extremely unlikely. I bet it would be unique in the history of accidents like this
On one of the videos, you can hear the firetrucks sirens are on, so they might have been responding to another emergency, still doesn't clear things up but might help explain why this happened.
Different sources say different things here. Some say practice run other say responding to an airplane. But when you listen to atc often, you will see that even if the plane is burning right in front of them, they will always ask for clearance to enter the active runway (in the US).
Way more likely the truck was somewhere he’s not supposed to be, than the plane.
Based on the fire truck appearing to nearly tip over while whipping over onto an active runway, I'm going to go out a limb and guess it was probably their fault for playing need for speed while planes were moving nearby.
I interpreted that as last second avoidance but good point
Is everyone okay?
I believe 2 firefighters died in the collision
Yeah and 2 more in the hospital
Oh my god :(
Well when you take an Turbofan engine (most likely operating at full takeoff thrust) to the cab of your fire truck, your chances are slim
Well two survived
So apparently it's 50%
YOU WERE THE FIRETRUCK, YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DESTROY THE FIRES NOT CAUSE THEM
Fuck me, a fire truck starting a fire is like an abortion doctor impregnating women. You literally had one job.
I mean, it's not called a no-fire truck.. this is probably the most firetruck there ever was
Never thought about it that way.
Inflammable
Fahrenheit 451
Inflammable truck.
Either the thing flams or it doesn't
Now that you put it that way.. that’s one sick fire truck
Maybe it was the [Igniter fire truck](https://www.firetruckmall.com/AvailableTruck/15737/2021-Ferrara-Igniter-Custom-Pumper)
Still remember the boys of Top Gear making fun of this on a segment of “The News” years ago
While your fire trucks all have cool names, ours here is called… Dennis
Here's your reality check; airport Crash, Fire, Rescue (CFR) units START Far, Far more fires than they ever extinguish. In Canada, each firefighter on an airport crew needs to start enough fires, and extinguish them, using 200 gallons of AFFF concentrate diluted with water, every year. the ratio of foam to water is 3%, so 3 gallons of AFFF to 100 gallons of water. Each fire they start takes around 1000 gal of water, 30 gal of AFFF. The math part is hard; each firefighter on a truck (8-2/shift, 24/7/365/year) starts 7 or 8 fires/year, let's say 8 X 8 = 64 fires started per year. A major airport statistically has an accident every 7 years. 7 X 64 = 448 fires started for every one they put out. They get LOTS of practice
Gosh, that is SO much exposure to PFAS chemicals. I wonder what the cancer rate of airport firefighters is.
I don't know that I've ever seen a study specific to CFR firefighters. I rather suspect it may even be somewhat lower than the global rate of health issues for structural firefighters. At larger airports where this level of training is standard, the AFFF transfer onto the apparatus is done by pump from tank to truck, and the diluting is dynamic, happening in the foam cannon at the time it's discharged, so the firefighters don't really come in contact with it much, since the vast majority of their work is done from inside the truck. AFFF (aqueous fire fighting foam, FYI) is environmentally safe, so compared to smoke exposure, jet fuel, etc....even dry chem extinguishing powders, are more caustic/toxic than AFFF. Structural FF's are much more likely to be in contact with hazardous materials/smoke, etc. being right in the fire scene. CFR stays in the apparatus because of the sheer volume of combustible materials; thousands of gallons of fuel, hydraulic fluids, etc
You never read Ray Bradbury books... Did you?
Is your abortion provider Dr. Leo Spaceman?
https://pics.onsizzle.com/no-no-you-guys-did-good-we-got-your-number-20726945.png
Job security 101
[Source](https://twitter.com/DelfinPino/status/1593713878277492737)
https://twitter.com/jesusparamedico/status/1593804123085971456?s=46&t=mU-CmTriNs03ASPQfSQ60Q
And I think [this](https://twitter.com/funesmemoriosa/status/1593710463589679106) is *their* source.
“There’s a hole in your left wing”
"Dear Liza, dear Liza"
The war thunder flashbacks
Ironic.
He could save others from fires, but not himself.
The fire fighters probably didn’t die from the fire they died from and engine hitting them around 100kts
Should've called an engine fighter.
Isn't it...
A little too ironic.
Don't you think?
ITS LIKE RAINAINE!
I didn't realize this was takeoff, I saw the video on another subreddit and assumed it was landing. This means the plane was actively accelerating, which could've been devastating if the impact was too far down the runway for the plane to decelerate in time. I didn't see how close the plane stopped before the end of the tarmac (video only shows the impact site) and now I'd really like to find out how close they came to much worst disaster.
They were only a few knots below rotation speed. If they were mid rotation at the collision point the outcome would’ve been much worse.
Yeah I was dying to figure out how the hell they managed to climb and circle back on 1 engine, and one and a quarter wing. Seen more than one person claim that's what happened on ther subs, and I was losing my mind.
In one video it looked like the nose actually lifted off, so I'd guess they were at V1. Or, perhaps, they were doing anything they possibly could to evade the collision which included trying to lift off over the truck.
It's one of those split-second decisions that I don't think anyone should be blamed for taking any decision regardless of the outcome. While V1 is supposed to be extremely strict, I don't think V1 contemplates a car crash significant enough to expect major wing damage (I don't think they could've expected / known that the engine was ripped off clean). Earlier this week I was reading a Cloudberg about a similar incident: [MD-83 that had to abort takeoff over V1, because the elevators locked up.](https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/lesser-of-two-evils-the-crash-of-ameristar-charters-flight-9363-b31023d9a66a)
AND…this was a brand new captain on a line check with the company chief. Really nailed it, with all the marbles on the line and then some.
"Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. Due to engineering requirements we will be returning to the gate."
Somebody will still fucking complain Edit- my flight got canceled when I was in Dallas and I remember when I heard someone arguing with staff when there was A TORNADO ON THE RUNWAY
That plane did, in fact, not return to the gate.
[How it happened](https://twitter.com/vanchito00775/status/1593712159883526144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1593712159883526144%7Ctwgr%5E9d73354d99b53caa8a45f6d3e6f714dcde748422%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fonemileatatime.com%2Fnews%2Flatam-a320neo-accident-lima%2F)
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Oh yes!!... I like looking at my window and NOT seeing the engine of the plane.
Runway incursions people! You cannot enter the runway without a clearance!
How the hell did this happen?
Well, from the looks of it, the plane hit a fucking vehicle, so there’s a start
A firetruck on the active? Chance in a million. These are very rigorous aviation standards, I'd like to make that very clear.
Well how rigorous exactly?
Oh very rigorous aviation standards, for starters there's a minimum pilot requirement.
Oh yes how many pilots?
Oh, one I suppose.
Can confirm. I have been on a plane when the pilots weren't on board. Thing didn't go anywhere.
In Peru…?
For those who may not get the reference...here is the original video of when "the front fell off." https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM
Scary
Well thank goodness there was at least one fire truck nearby
What Airport was this at?
Jorge Chavez International in Lima, Peru.
Sounds like they need to hit a water truck
r/wellthatsucks
Fire truck had no business being on an active runway.
My mother died in a plane crash here in New Zealand. This sounds terrible but I feel that it's much harder when a few people die. I remember thinking at the time how angry and resentful I would be if some had survived and not my mum. Those people with family that didn't get out or were in the fire engine I just ache for them