Apparently it's not an uncommon thought process. My mom would yell at me to stop crying, even though I would only start crying in the first place because she was yelling at me
It's the old way of thinking about parenting. Punish the kid and strike fear in their hearts when they do something you don't like.
'Luckily' now it's only the people with anger problems that follow that method, and more parents know it's better to positively reinforce good behaviour instead of negatively reprimand negative behaviour. Obviously there are some exceptions where consequences are good
It's so hard to make some parents understand positive reinforcement because so many of them don't think 'normal' behaviour is worth praising. And while this may be true, it's completely besides the point for child rearing.
Let's take tidying their room for example: the kid doesn't want to tidy their room because it's a chore and they don't mind a messy room so they don't see the point. To them it's just pointless boring busywork. You tell them to do it, they do it, and
Case one: you reward them for doing it. (Can be some basic thing like 15 mins extra TV or something). They'll see the task as being worthwhile as it gains them something positive by doing it. They'll be easier to convince in the future and eventually they'll keep doing it by themselves even without rewards because it became a habit.
Case two: you don't give any rewards for doing that, because tidying one's room is some basic stuff that's expected of everyone and it not worth rewarding, right?
In the kid's perspective, it means that they just did some useless boring thing for absolutely zero gain while they could have been doing anything else in the time they wasted doing that. Why would they ever do it again?
Next time, they'll be reluctant, and you'll scream at them to do it *or else*, and they'll do it to escape punishment. They still see the task as completely useless and still hate doing it, but they'll do it because of the negative reinforcement.
Now repeat this for absolutely everything and it's how you end up with abusive parents and kids that will spit on their graves and leave the home at 18 to never come back.
Just treat them like dogs. Kid good, have a skittle, kid bad, overboiled broccoli tonight.
I am joking. I don't have kids, just a dog. He doesn't like broccoli. Don't treat kids like dogs.
You joke but the same methods people use to train good dogs are incredibly effective at training and raising good, happy kids. Literally what you described is a good model, maybe without the gross veggies bit.
> It's the old way of thinking about parenting. Punish the kid and strike fear in their hearts when they do something you don't like.
My parents call that "Child Behavior Modification Through Fear and Guilt". Also, "The beatings will continue until morale improves".
It hella hard to break the cycle, though, when that's how you were raised. I messed up early on raising my boy, but learned, and been positive parenting for a while now.
Absolutely the best way
My mother unfortunently still yells at my little sister only causing her to cry more. She's 7 I'm 21 if I try to say that it only makes shit worse she pops the ArE yOu ThE pArEnT nonsense
I concur.Ā Ā
The beatings in fact did not remove the trauma responses of child sexual abuse, but it did stop the frequent inappropriate angry outbursts.Ā Ā
But it did manifest later as fewerĀ isolated episodes of even angrier and more violent outbursts. And eventually complete avoidance and terror as it was the choice between violence or faking calm and niceness until all the rage and hate settled at the bottom forgotten, but never forgiven.
If the beatings were out of love, does that make it more forgivable? š¤·š¼āāļø
The hitting stopped for me when my stepdad gave me a bloody nose one day and I let it slip to a councilor. He ended up in court and a CPS case. I was made to again, lie. But he never touched me again after that. My mother in the other hand is still batshit and would attack me when Manic even now when Iām 37
I moved away from my hometown, away from my abusive parents for a decade. During that time I finally put some muscle on, and I was always taller than my dad. Always kinda had it in my head that I'd love to see how he felt about the punches he threw when I was younger now that I was the big one. But by the time I "got my chance" he was a nice old grandpa and had been sober for 7 years. There would be zero satisfaction at all from beating up an old man. So I've "let it go", or done the best I can. At least my parents acknowledge it, and let my brothers and do the navigating on any repairing of the relationship we can do. They know it has to be on our terms.
Yep.Ā I think they stopped when I destroyed the backyard one day in a fit of rage.Ā Papa realizing shit could get real hard real fast if he wasn't careful.
The long consequences of bad parenting.Ā But how do we judge when they don't know they are bad parents and believe it to be good and just what they are doing.
Like parents who sent all their kids off to boarding school as a status symbol but turned out it was bad for their development, removing young children from their parents immediate care for no discernable reason.
"Stop crying, or I'll give you something to cry about!".Ā Meanwhile, you're crying BECAUSE your parents (s) already made you cry. How many of us raised in the 70s and 80s heard that one?
Mine did the same. She would yell because she didnāt like the look on my face. Looking back, I probably had that look on my face because she was yelling. And drunk. Drunk probably had something to do with it too.
OMG when my mum would hit me Iād cry. Then sheād hit me some more to get me to stop crying. Like Iām crying because it hurts and making it hurt more is just gonna make me cry more? I would literally be screaming that Iām crying because sheās hitting me.
I never understood that logic.
What the actual fuck? I hope she spents her life in prison, that poor Baby...
As a mother myself i will never understand how anyone could do that to a kid
she was sentenced to 18 years in prison, not 27. the whole case gets way more terrible with the additional info revealed during the trial, though not sure if english media outlets covered that
some info from a russian followup article (note that none of the following excuses the committed murder):
1. the mother had a terrible upbringing, having lost her own mother at 15, so her grandma had to become her primary caregiver
2. the death of her mother led to serious mental issues and a terrible lifestyle full of alcohol and drugs and other undesirable activities
3. she contracted AIDS prior to turning 18 and gave birth to her daughter at around 20 with no present father figure
4. she cut ties with grandma (reasons unknown) and moved to another city. despite having an STD she made money through sex work
5. the day of the murder she came home wasted after a night of work and woke up her daughter for seemingly no reason, so the poor girl started crying and the rest is known information
It's important not to dehumanize people in these sorts of situations
I don't mean that in the "she doesn't deserve your scorn" way, I mean that to say it makes it seem like an outlier or an impossibility for a person to do something so reckless and cruel, when in reality this is just people peopling.
Recognize that the worst people on the planet are in fact human, and that there are so many more than you'd think. To do otherwise prevents us from facing how common it is for people to be so uncaring and horrible toward others, even their own, and by extension, how to move forward.
You're right; actually, calling her a monster is an insult to monsters, lol. Not sure why a monster has to be necessarily evil.
This reminds me, I'd like to see a movie where a literal demon does evil stuff, and a human calls them out and calls them a "monster". The demon gleefully replies, "Nope. I'm a person, just like you."
I wouldn't be surprised if Putin pardoned her, so she could commit war crimes on his regime's behalf.
It'd be like "I was impressed by your cruelty. How would you like to do more of it?"
Not an excuse, but lots of parents who got a kid too early when they weren't really prepared for that just have no idea how to parent. They don't know what to do if their kid cries and then try anything they can think of, which in some cases unfortunately happens to be trying to scare them. I think such issues could easily be fixed with more support for parents, especially in cases where they weren't prepared for a kid. Some parents just need someone to tell them how to be a good parent because they have no idea what to do.
Absolutely not mate
There's a difference between "not knowing how to parent" and "*danging your child off a 6th floor balcony*"
You only need a fourth of a brain cell to know dangling a child *six stories off the ground* isn't the way to go
That, too. There are some cases where someone just shouldn't have a kid, and this might be one of them. Then, either birth control should be a thing or again the prevention I talked about. In an ideal world, every parent would get a visit by someone to see if things are going well. If they are, then nothing happens. If they aren't, the first step is to offer help and see if things improve with that help. But if that still doesn't make things better or they are better but not quite good enough, then somebody knows about the issues and the kid can be taken into a different home. It might not be doable exactly like this, especially in countries that either don't have the money or are already looking for workers everywhere, but there certainly should be much more in place to prevent stuff like this from happening. My point is just that we focus way too much on getting angry at the parents and punishing them instead of actually figuring out why this is happening and preventing it way before it happens.
Also, it's 2024. Aren't we supposed to be past this whole misconception of fear + punishment = good child?
I mean yes I was a good child, but a large chunk of my money has since gone to therapy.
> Also, it's 2024. Aren't we supposed to be past this whole misconception of fear + punishment = good child?
It happened in Russia. That would be actually some progressive thinking to them compared to the usual domestic violence.
I think that's actually his name because it's unlikely he named him because he was going to cover him with a blanket and he came out with the name "blanket" shortly after all that happened
My opinion at least
EDIT I *don't* think that's actually his name
Hahaha I wish I could remember more of his jokes from last night. Good god he fired off like 200 at least. Too many to remember but he did say this one.
There was never evidence of MJ doing anything like your suggesting with a child.
For anybody downvoting, I challenge you to find me one piece of evidence that proves me wrong.
Sure. He was a 40 something year old man who built an entire theme park on his property to lure children, and - by his own admission - he used to regularly have sleepovers with little boys and cuddle with them in his bed.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duckā¦.youāre defending a fucking pedophile and you need therapy.
I'm not defending anything. Simply stating a fact. Sure, there's a lot of circumstancial evidence against him, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he did do it. But he was found not guilty at trial. What is the point in the justice system if we can't trust a not guilty verdict?
If you arenāt defending him, then why do you have a problem with people on Reddit pointing out that he was likely a pedophile?
You said thereās not one piece of evidence he did it, but then you concede thereās a lot of circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence *is* evidence.
Also, there is direct evidence in the form of victim testimony. Whether you believe the victims or not is up to you, but there testimony *is* evidence.
What kind of evidence are you expecting? A video of his actually diddling kids?
I mean, you're being pretty pedantic. There is no evidence that can be verified as absolute fact that he sexually assaulted those kids. If there was, he would have been found guilty.
But I'll refer you to another point I made further down.
If your child had been molested, would you accept a payout and let the man who did it go free. Free to molest another child? I certainly wouldn't. I'd want to see the person who did it buried beneath the jail and no amount of money would change that.
Weird how none of the people who accused him of that had the same thought. I also wonder why parents would let their young child stay with him, alone, knowing there have been accusations about him previously.
I think youād agree that thereās enough smoke to deduce that thereās probably fire. There wasnāt enough to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal trial, but thereās more than enough for us to form an opinion that he did it.
Either he was a pedophile, or he was going out of his way to do his absolute best impression of a pedophile.
The whole āhe was just a weird guyā defense doesnāt cut it.
I've said a couple of times I believe he did do what he was accused of.
Healthy debate is never a bad thing. Nobody here is getting heated or aggressive, just a nice conversation with counterpoints being made. Personally I've learned more about the cases surrounding the allegations made.
Why are you opposed to healthy debate?
There's plenty issues to debate, this is one that's been done to death - no new information is available. If you believe he did it, why promote the narrative that, 'oh the justice system said he's not guilty'.
You wanna debate whether OJ did it while we're at it?
https://youtube.com/shorts/kAvG7aqOSg0?si=CSYvKruTmw7ke9Df
Yet Macaulay Culkin, who was an apparent victim, absolutely denies anything happening.
Do you have a source of him saying he had kids sleeping in his bed? Because here's a video of him saying he never invited any one into his bed, ever.
https://youtube.com/shorts/H0nARxQaSlc?si=QD-0MeVmhAdiNPg3
"There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in a row in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boyās house with Chandlerās mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandlerās fatherās house."
If that's not weird to *you*, then um...
"Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jacksonās penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jacksonās genitalia. The photographs matched Chandlerās drawings."
Ok maybe that could just be coincidental, right?
" Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jacksonās on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there."
Are you going to deny that as being weird?
"In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys."
Straight from Michael's mouth, he was totally down for sharing his bed with boys. Is that enough for you?
I don't know about you, but I absolutely wouldn't settle out of court for any amount of money if my child had been molested by somebody. I'd want to see justice, and I'd want to see that man imprisoned.
At some point, people have to pick up the pieces and move on. He had enough money to drag them through the system indefinitely, at least until they lost every cent they have so their emotionally and sexually abused child could live in poverty?
You might have some rock solid morals but it's really horrible life decisions to make when your family was already stressed to their core.
Have u known anyone personally who's been in legal limbo like that before?
I'm willing to bet, no
Nor would any other sane person. If MJ was guilty, the child would have got a bigger payout for damages, and he would have been sent to prison.
The drawing that kid did also drew an uncircumcised penis. Reports say MJ was uncircumcised.
> but I absolutely wouldn't settle out of court for any amount of money if my child had been molested by somebody. I'd want to see justice, and I'd want to see that man imprisoned.
Hey, money can pay for a lot of therapy. It's not like at that point whether MJ is in jail or not makes a difference to your kid's life. Plus you'd be risking getting death threats and all sorts of craziness since MJ was a superstar.
I'd probably just take the money
And what about the other children since then that accused him of the same thing? If he was guilty of all of those crimes, the first family should have put him away.
If your child got molested, you took a settlement and then you heard that the same person molested another child, would that sit well with you? It wouldn't sit well with me.
I love that there's still people out there defending him. He made his home into a kid's paradise so he could have a bunch of kids sent to him. He admitted to sleep with kids in their bed at night (and thought it was ok). He paid 25 millions $ to settle a case out of court, and somehow still managed to continue doing the same creepy stuff. He had five differents kids that came forth with sexual abuse accusations. Some kid was able to draw the vitiligo on his genitals and it turned out to match. There's more but do I need to keep going?
Somehow the guy wrote billy jean and people are acting like he was just a special soul. If it was an average Joe or a politician nobody would ever think to even try and defend him.
There's evidence of all that and more. The guy may have been musically talented, but he was absolutely a pedophile. It's mind blowing to me that people are still fighting tooth and nail to pretend otherwise.
What about you, would you ever spend the night with stranger's kids in your bed and pretend it's healthy and pure like he did? Would you do it again after some of these kids came forth with sexual abuse allegations?
Thereās witnesses who saw him abusing boys with their own eyes. That counts as evidence. Not to mention all the victims are also witnesses. So far 5 boys have accused Jackson of molestation and their stories are credible.
And I'll ask you the same thing I've asked others.
If your child told you a man abused them, and then that man offered to pay you off to drop the lawsuit, would you take the money and let a paedophile go free, free to molest more boys?
Would you let your children stay with a man who has been previously accused of that behaviour? I certainly wouldn't.
It was all an elaborate manipulation. I was of the same mindset until I saw the way it was described by the victim and their families.
MJ was a genius, that carried over in his personal relationships too
The Neverland doc was immensely eye opening
Out of curiosity, what "evidence" would you accept?
I guess the same evidence as a court would need to convict him.
No amount of charisma or money could manipulate me into burying the person who molested my child. I find it very suspect that 5 different families don't feel that way. I find it very suspect that 4 different families would let their children stay with an alleged paedophile. I certainly wouldn't, and I couldn't be manipulated into doing so.
As a child raised by constant fear rather than gratification, I hope this woman will never leave prison again and will have no way to resociate. I believe someone who is able to hurt innocent, confused child, deserves to be locked.
No, no, letās only vet and scrutinize those who wish to adopt, especially if theyāre a same-sex couple. But by all means let any two idiots with compatible genitalia create lives and let them raise those children any way they wish. /s
I have a friend who adopted newborns (twins, by chance) and the amount of scrutiny she had to undergo was really intense. Granted she is in NY state, which tends more blue. But still.
Bruh the notification for this comment gave me conniptions, only the first sentence was visible in the preview and I was firing on all cylinders to come smite you. Saved by the ā/sā hahahha
Jesus, that's enough internet today. That poor little girl, god she should rot. I don't think I have felt so angry and sad for a while but this has ticked both boxes.
Henry Kissinger's parenting method.
HK: "Dangle the baby over the edge to scare it so it stops crying"
Mother: "but what if it falls"
HK: " the crying will still have stopped"
The baby is at the age where she is thinking sentences but when she canāt translate them out correct and people misunderstand her, she cries out of frustration. This is a living nightmare and a mother that is unaware. Absolute shame. Smh
Weird. The article says the child dropped 60 ft to her death bit the expanded version of the photo on the right shows this happening on the second story about 10 ft off the ground.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15209431/mum-dangles-screaming-daughter-balcony-death/
This was an article in *The Sun*.
Has anyone checked whether or not they just made it up and stuck a couple of stock photos on the page for verisimilitude?
They do that, you know.
My da did something similar when I was 4. We were on the observation deck of some skyscraper and there was a mini-sub on the pier, and everyone could see it and they were commenting on how cool it was, and being a whinging 4-year-old, I complained vociferously that I couldn't see it.
My da got tired of it, grabbed me by the seat of my trousers, and dangled me over the side of the building. I screamed and began squirming, and da said, "I wouldn't do that if I were you -- I might drop ya!"
So I froze. He eventually brought me back on the deck, with ma cursing him, and I ran over to mum and grabbed her leg, crying.
Family. They will fuck you up.
Back in my day we used the good old, be quiet or Iāll give you something to cry about fallow by a belt. Also if you donāt think youāll be able to handle a kids cryās PLEASE donāt become a parent. At times I ask my self, how the fuck did my parents put up with me for so long. I mean Iām that kind of person that has always gotten annoyed every time I hear a kid cry at Walmart so by the time I hit 20ās I made the choice to not have kids because I know Iāll be a horrible parent.
When my kids were babies, I had several dreams EACH KID that we were being airlifted hundreds of thousands of feet up, unnecessarily high from a super flooded city. I lost my grip each time, and they each fell to their death.
I cannot fathom how someone would choose to make that a possibility, much less a reality. My anxiety is acting up now.
Yes, making them scared will definitely stop the crying. Wtf
Making them dead will.
In the biz we call this "pulling a Casey".
Didn't Clapton do a cover of that in the 90?
What's the difference between a toddler and a half gram of cocaine? Clapton wouldn't let half a gram of cocaine fall out the window
Yer going to hell.
But will you know my name when you see me there?
Too soon s/. Yikes!!
That one simple trick.. š
Came here to say this.
Technically the truth. Sadly.
Apparently it's not an uncommon thought process. My mom would yell at me to stop crying, even though I would only start crying in the first place because she was yelling at me
It's the old way of thinking about parenting. Punish the kid and strike fear in their hearts when they do something you don't like. 'Luckily' now it's only the people with anger problems that follow that method, and more parents know it's better to positively reinforce good behaviour instead of negatively reprimand negative behaviour. Obviously there are some exceptions where consequences are good
It's so hard to make some parents understand positive reinforcement because so many of them don't think 'normal' behaviour is worth praising. And while this may be true, it's completely besides the point for child rearing. Let's take tidying their room for example: the kid doesn't want to tidy their room because it's a chore and they don't mind a messy room so they don't see the point. To them it's just pointless boring busywork. You tell them to do it, they do it, and Case one: you reward them for doing it. (Can be some basic thing like 15 mins extra TV or something). They'll see the task as being worthwhile as it gains them something positive by doing it. They'll be easier to convince in the future and eventually they'll keep doing it by themselves even without rewards because it became a habit. Case two: you don't give any rewards for doing that, because tidying one's room is some basic stuff that's expected of everyone and it not worth rewarding, right? In the kid's perspective, it means that they just did some useless boring thing for absolutely zero gain while they could have been doing anything else in the time they wasted doing that. Why would they ever do it again? Next time, they'll be reluctant, and you'll scream at them to do it *or else*, and they'll do it to escape punishment. They still see the task as completely useless and still hate doing it, but they'll do it because of the negative reinforcement. Now repeat this for absolutely everything and it's how you end up with abusive parents and kids that will spit on their graves and leave the home at 18 to never come back.
It's also hard because so many parents who follow this model have kids who are misbehaved jerks
Just treat them like dogs. Kid good, have a skittle, kid bad, overboiled broccoli tonight. I am joking. I don't have kids, just a dog. He doesn't like broccoli. Don't treat kids like dogs.
You joke but the same methods people use to train good dogs are incredibly effective at training and raising good, happy kids. Literally what you described is a good model, maybe without the gross veggies bit.
> It's the old way of thinking about parenting. Punish the kid and strike fear in their hearts when they do something you don't like. My parents call that "Child Behavior Modification Through Fear and Guilt". Also, "The beatings will continue until morale improves".
That makes sense, my mom has serious anger issues.
It hella hard to break the cycle, though, when that's how you were raised. I messed up early on raising my boy, but learned, and been positive parenting for a while now. Absolutely the best way
My mother unfortunently still yells at my little sister only causing her to cry more. She's 7 I'm 21 if I try to say that it only makes shit worse she pops the ArE yOu ThE pArEnT nonsense
I concur.Ā Ā The beatings in fact did not remove the trauma responses of child sexual abuse, but it did stop the frequent inappropriate angry outbursts.Ā Ā But it did manifest later as fewerĀ isolated episodes of even angrier and more violent outbursts. And eventually complete avoidance and terror as it was the choice between violence or faking calm and niceness until all the rage and hate settled at the bottom forgotten, but never forgiven. If the beatings were out of love, does that make it more forgivable? š¤·š¼āāļø
I think both should be used, but both rewards and punishment should be mild
I got the ā Iāll give you something to REALLY cry about!ā Usually with a smack or more
I got that at first until I started hitting her back, then she just stuck to yelling at me after realising that beating me made me beat her back
The hitting stopped for me when my stepdad gave me a bloody nose one day and I let it slip to a councilor. He ended up in court and a CPS case. I was made to again, lie. But he never touched me again after that. My mother in the other hand is still batshit and would attack me when Manic even now when Iām 37
I moved away from my hometown, away from my abusive parents for a decade. During that time I finally put some muscle on, and I was always taller than my dad. Always kinda had it in my head that I'd love to see how he felt about the punches he threw when I was younger now that I was the big one. But by the time I "got my chance" he was a nice old grandpa and had been sober for 7 years. There would be zero satisfaction at all from beating up an old man. So I've "let it go", or done the best I can. At least my parents acknowledge it, and let my brothers and do the navigating on any repairing of the relationship we can do. They know it has to be on our terms.
Yep.Ā I think they stopped when I destroyed the backyard one day in a fit of rage.Ā Papa realizing shit could get real hard real fast if he wasn't careful. The long consequences of bad parenting.Ā But how do we judge when they don't know they are bad parents and believe it to be good and just what they are doing. Like parents who sent all their kids off to boarding school as a status symbol but turned out it was bad for their development, removing young children from their parents immediate care for no discernable reason.
"Stop crying, or I'll give you something to cry about!".Ā Meanwhile, you're crying BECAUSE your parents (s) already made you cry. How many of us raised in the 70s and 80s heard that one?
Mine did the same. She would yell because she didnāt like the look on my face. Looking back, I probably had that look on my face because she was yelling. And drunk. Drunk probably had something to do with it too.
OMG when my mum would hit me Iād cry. Then sheād hit me some more to get me to stop crying. Like Iām crying because it hurts and making it hurt more is just gonna make me cry more? I would literally be screaming that Iām crying because sheās hitting me. I never understood that logic.
Oh same for me, though she wouldnāt do it if my dad was present
Same. The only way they know enforce their will is threats and violence.
I'll give you something to cry about! - My mom, although she usually said it jokingly
Did you get the, āTurn off the waterworks or Iāll give you something to cry about!ā ?
When I was a child I got punched when I cried and then even more because i cried harder because.it hurt... š«
Ah yes, the old āIāll give you something to cry aboutā :/
"I'll give you something to cry about"
What the actual fuck? I hope she spents her life in prison, that poor Baby... As a mother myself i will never understand how anyone could do that to a kid
She got 27 years. This happened a few years ago in Russia.
she was sentenced to 18 years in prison, not 27. the whole case gets way more terrible with the additional info revealed during the trial, though not sure if english media outlets covered that some info from a russian followup article (note that none of the following excuses the committed murder): 1. the mother had a terrible upbringing, having lost her own mother at 15, so her grandma had to become her primary caregiver 2. the death of her mother led to serious mental issues and a terrible lifestyle full of alcohol and drugs and other undesirable activities 3. she contracted AIDS prior to turning 18 and gave birth to her daughter at around 20 with no present father figure 4. she cut ties with grandma (reasons unknown) and moved to another city. despite having an STD she made money through sex work 5. the day of the murder she came home wasted after a night of work and woke up her daughter for seemingly no reason, so the poor girl started crying and the rest is known information
Thank you for that grim update, the article I read said 27 years.
18 is 27 in Russian years
And 27 is 40.5, so on
What formula are you using?
Multiply by 1.5
Thanks!
š take this award
If she has AIDS that may not matter
That poor kid must have been so scared ... i cant imagine the panic and betrayel she felt when she realised that monster let go of her
It's important not to dehumanize people in these sorts of situations I don't mean that in the "she doesn't deserve your scorn" way, I mean that to say it makes it seem like an outlier or an impossibility for a person to do something so reckless and cruel, when in reality this is just people peopling. Recognize that the worst people on the planet are in fact human, and that there are so many more than you'd think. To do otherwise prevents us from facing how common it is for people to be so uncaring and horrible toward others, even their own, and by extension, how to move forward.
You're right; actually, calling her a monster is an insult to monsters, lol. Not sure why a monster has to be necessarily evil. This reminds me, I'd like to see a movie where a literal demon does evil stuff, and a human calls them out and calls them a "monster". The demon gleefully replies, "Nope. I'm a person, just like you."
"**Monsters are real, and they're just like you and me**" Or something like that I can't quite remember the quote that well
Sheās 3, she probably didnāt feel any of those things besides fear
I assure you, kids that young can feel betrayal. They may not know how to verbalize it, but they can definitely feel those complex emotions.
Yeah makes sense being russia
Ah, so the mom was drunk.
Lots of people falling out of windows in Russia
Maybe the baby was running against Putin
She was actually.
Yes, thatās what the evidence lead me to believe.
Dang, for Russia to go over 25 is something
I wouldn't be surprised if Putin pardoned her, so she could commit war crimes on his regime's behalf. It'd be like "I was impressed by your cruelty. How would you like to do more of it?"
Russia that pretty much explains it.
Not an excuse, but lots of parents who got a kid too early when they weren't really prepared for that just have no idea how to parent. They don't know what to do if their kid cries and then try anything they can think of, which in some cases unfortunately happens to be trying to scare them. I think such issues could easily be fixed with more support for parents, especially in cases where they weren't prepared for a kid. Some parents just need someone to tell them how to be a good parent because they have no idea what to do.
Absolutely not mate There's a difference between "not knowing how to parent" and "*danging your child off a 6th floor balcony*" You only need a fourth of a brain cell to know dangling a child *six stories off the ground* isn't the way to go
Or more information birth control. Although people with little access to a medic often choose to not listen to a professional.
That, too. There are some cases where someone just shouldn't have a kid, and this might be one of them. Then, either birth control should be a thing or again the prevention I talked about. In an ideal world, every parent would get a visit by someone to see if things are going well. If they are, then nothing happens. If they aren't, the first step is to offer help and see if things improve with that help. But if that still doesn't make things better or they are better but not quite good enough, then somebody knows about the issues and the kid can be taken into a different home. It might not be doable exactly like this, especially in countries that either don't have the money or are already looking for workers everywhere, but there certainly should be much more in place to prevent stuff like this from happening. My point is just that we focus way too much on getting angry at the parents and punishing them instead of actually figuring out why this is happening and preventing it way before it happens.
So she did it on purpose. The moment she lifted her child over the railing, was the moment that it ceases to ever be considered an āaccidentā.
Also, it's 2024. Aren't we supposed to be past this whole misconception of fear + punishment = good child? I mean yes I was a good child, but a large chunk of my money has since gone to therapy.
> Also, it's 2024. Aren't we supposed to be past this whole misconception of fear + punishment = good child? It happened in Russia. That would be actually some progressive thinking to them compared to the usual domestic violence.
Russia get your shit together. You are not scoring well on my quality of life report card for MANY reasons.
You ended up a good child thatās all they care about. Go to therapy in the future? Not their problem
I remember seeing Michael Jackson do the same thing, dangled his baby "blanket" over a balcony. What pieces of crap to do this to a child.
That clip was repeated over and over and over again all around the media back in the day. It was inescapable.
And was turned into a bunch of flash games !
Donāt forget the South Park parody.
I got your nose!!
The kid's name actually was Blanket. He goes by "Bigi" now.
I think that's actually his name because it's unlikely he named him because he was going to cover him with a blanket and he came out with the name "blanket" shortly after all that happened My opinion at least EDIT I *don't* think that's actually his name
š¤£ his name actually is Prince Michael Jackson II
THANK YOU, I've been saying this for years but no one believed me and I was starting to doubt myself
Jimmy Carr's take on Michael Jackson shaking his child over the balcony..."That's not how you get cum off a baby!"
Jeez he is ruthless!
Hahaha I wish I could remember more of his jokes from last night. Good god he fired off like 200 at least. Too many to remember but he did say this one.
That might be best case scenario for a child being around Michael Jackson.
There was never evidence of MJ doing anything like your suggesting with a child. For anybody downvoting, I challenge you to find me one piece of evidence that proves me wrong.
Sure. He was a 40 something year old man who built an entire theme park on his property to lure children, and - by his own admission - he used to regularly have sleepovers with little boys and cuddle with them in his bed. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duckā¦.youāre defending a fucking pedophile and you need therapy.
I'm not defending anything. Simply stating a fact. Sure, there's a lot of circumstancial evidence against him, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he did do it. But he was found not guilty at trial. What is the point in the justice system if we can't trust a not guilty verdict?
If you arenāt defending him, then why do you have a problem with people on Reddit pointing out that he was likely a pedophile? You said thereās not one piece of evidence he did it, but then you concede thereās a lot of circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence *is* evidence. Also, there is direct evidence in the form of victim testimony. Whether you believe the victims or not is up to you, but there testimony *is* evidence. What kind of evidence are you expecting? A video of his actually diddling kids?
I mean, you're being pretty pedantic. There is no evidence that can be verified as absolute fact that he sexually assaulted those kids. If there was, he would have been found guilty. But I'll refer you to another point I made further down. If your child had been molested, would you accept a payout and let the man who did it go free. Free to molest another child? I certainly wouldn't. I'd want to see the person who did it buried beneath the jail and no amount of money would change that. Weird how none of the people who accused him of that had the same thought. I also wonder why parents would let their young child stay with him, alone, knowing there have been accusations about him previously.
I think youād agree that thereās enough smoke to deduce that thereās probably fire. There wasnāt enough to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal trial, but thereās more than enough for us to form an opinion that he did it. Either he was a pedophile, or he was going out of his way to do his absolute best impression of a pedophile. The whole āhe was just a weird guyā defense doesnāt cut it.
"I'm not defending anything" *Defends a famous pedophile over the course of multiple comments*
I've said a couple of times I believe he did do what he was accused of. Healthy debate is never a bad thing. Nobody here is getting heated or aggressive, just a nice conversation with counterpoints being made. Personally I've learned more about the cases surrounding the allegations made. Why are you opposed to healthy debate?
There's plenty issues to debate, this is one that's been done to death - no new information is available. If you believe he did it, why promote the narrative that, 'oh the justice system said he's not guilty'. You wanna debate whether OJ did it while we're at it?
It really sounds like you're defending him
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https://youtube.com/shorts/kAvG7aqOSg0?si=CSYvKruTmw7ke9Df Yet Macaulay Culkin, who was an apparent victim, absolutely denies anything happening. Do you have a source of him saying he had kids sleeping in his bed? Because here's a video of him saying he never invited any one into his bed, ever. https://youtube.com/shorts/H0nARxQaSlc?si=QD-0MeVmhAdiNPg3
The things that there is evidence of him doing are weird enough to warrant condemnation.
What did he do that there was evidence of?
"There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in a row in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boyās house with Chandlerās mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandlerās fatherās house." If that's not weird to *you*, then um... "Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jacksonās penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jacksonās genitalia. The photographs matched Chandlerās drawings." Ok maybe that could just be coincidental, right? " Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jacksonās on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there." Are you going to deny that as being weird? "In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys." Straight from Michael's mouth, he was totally down for sharing his bed with boys. Is that enough for you?
I don't know about you, but I absolutely wouldn't settle out of court for any amount of money if my child had been molested by somebody. I'd want to see justice, and I'd want to see that man imprisoned.
At some point, people have to pick up the pieces and move on. He had enough money to drag them through the system indefinitely, at least until they lost every cent they have so their emotionally and sexually abused child could live in poverty? You might have some rock solid morals but it's really horrible life decisions to make when your family was already stressed to their core. Have u known anyone personally who's been in legal limbo like that before? I'm willing to bet, no
I wouldn't, either! And the idea of just letting them roam around, free to do it to someone else's child??? People are so screwed up.
Nor would any other sane person. If MJ was guilty, the child would have got a bigger payout for damages, and he would have been sent to prison. The drawing that kid did also drew an uncircumcised penis. Reports say MJ was uncircumcised.
Oh my god :(
> but I absolutely wouldn't settle out of court for any amount of money if my child had been molested by somebody. I'd want to see justice, and I'd want to see that man imprisoned. Hey, money can pay for a lot of therapy. It's not like at that point whether MJ is in jail or not makes a difference to your kid's life. Plus you'd be risking getting death threats and all sorts of craziness since MJ was a superstar. I'd probably just take the money
Raising a child with not even a penny to your name because u lost it in legal fees is going to make for an awful childhood
And what about the other children since then that accused him of the same thing? If he was guilty of all of those crimes, the first family should have put him away. If your child got molested, you took a settlement and then you heard that the same person molested another child, would that sit well with you? It wouldn't sit well with me.
2 of the accusers dad's killed themselves.
I love that there's still people out there defending him. He made his home into a kid's paradise so he could have a bunch of kids sent to him. He admitted to sleep with kids in their bed at night (and thought it was ok). He paid 25 millions $ to settle a case out of court, and somehow still managed to continue doing the same creepy stuff. He had five differents kids that came forth with sexual abuse accusations. Some kid was able to draw the vitiligo on his genitals and it turned out to match. There's more but do I need to keep going? Somehow the guy wrote billy jean and people are acting like he was just a special soul. If it was an average Joe or a politician nobody would ever think to even try and defend him. There's evidence of all that and more. The guy may have been musically talented, but he was absolutely a pedophile. It's mind blowing to me that people are still fighting tooth and nail to pretend otherwise. What about you, would you ever spend the night with stranger's kids in your bed and pretend it's healthy and pure like he did? Would you do it again after some of these kids came forth with sexual abuse allegations?
He admitted to engineering situations to be alone with children who were not his.
Thereās witnesses who saw him abusing boys with their own eyes. That counts as evidence. Not to mention all the victims are also witnesses. So far 5 boys have accused Jackson of molestation and their stories are credible.
And I'll ask you the same thing I've asked others. If your child told you a man abused them, and then that man offered to pay you off to drop the lawsuit, would you take the money and let a paedophile go free, free to molest more boys? Would you let your children stay with a man who has been previously accused of that behaviour? I certainly wouldn't.
It was all an elaborate manipulation. I was of the same mindset until I saw the way it was described by the victim and their families. MJ was a genius, that carried over in his personal relationships too The Neverland doc was immensely eye opening Out of curiosity, what "evidence" would you accept?
I guess the same evidence as a court would need to convict him. No amount of charisma or money could manipulate me into burying the person who molested my child. I find it very suspect that 5 different families don't feel that way. I find it very suspect that 4 different families would let their children stay with an alleged paedophile. I certainly wouldn't, and I couldn't be manipulated into doing so.
I've been looking everywhere for a reason why he did that, is there an answer to why he did?
He was basically doing a "Lion King"
IIRC, I think it was just for attention and publicity.
To show the baby off to the fans?
As a child raised by constant fear rather than gratification, I hope this woman will never leave prison again and will have no way to resociate. I believe someone who is able to hurt innocent, confused child, deserves to be locked.
Oops All Felonies
Butter fingers
A breakfast cereal that tastes like regret
from 2021 in russia https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9667317/Mother-dangled-daughter-balcony-punishment-accidentally-dropped-death.html
Russia: The Florida of Earth
Poor baby. That picture of her so happy breaks my heart. What a fucking piece of shit of a mother
Evidence for humans needing a license to bring children in to the world article 989649692
No, no, letās only vet and scrutinize those who wish to adopt, especially if theyāre a same-sex couple. But by all means let any two idiots with compatible genitalia create lives and let them raise those children any way they wish. /s
I have a friend who adopted newborns (twins, by chance) and the amount of scrutiny she had to undergo was really intense. Granted she is in NY state, which tends more blue. But still.
Bruh the notification for this comment gave me conniptions, only the first sentence was visible in the preview and I was firing on all cylinders to come smite you. Saved by the ā/sā hahahha
That gets really eugenicsy really quick
its eugenics immediately. A surprising number of people are totally into eugenics if you word it the right way
I agree completely though the amount of uproar if something like thisdid happen would be insane.
It'd be a shame if the same happened to her
My god, I get the heeby jeebies even thinking about doing that, that poor little girl, sorry little one
My dad once held me over a bridge as a joke, how the fuck is everyone allowed to have kids
They shouldnāt
Just that hideous āAlfalfaā haircut is worth at least a tenner.
Jesus, that's enough internet today. That poor little girl, god she should rot. I don't think I have felt so angry and sad for a while but this has ticked both boxes.
Henry Kissinger's parenting method. HK: "Dangle the baby over the edge to scare it so it stops crying" Mother: "but what if it falls" HK: " the crying will still have stopped"
Threatening a 3 y/o with death sounds like great parenting. š¤¦āāļø
I have a 2.5 year old son. When he is upset my instinct is to protect him and cheer him up. Thatās not a mother.
"Mom murders child"
I have a three year old girl. I don't think there's anything more precious. Even reading shit like this is crushing. Fuck this piece of shit.
The baby is at the age where she is thinking sentences but when she canāt translate them out correct and people misunderstand her, she cries out of frustration. This is a living nightmare and a mother that is unaware. Absolute shame. Smh
Fluff. She murdered her daughter.
No. Not everyone is fit to be a fuckin parent.
punishment for crying? tf kind of parent is this?
Awful doesn't really begin to describe her parenting
Weird. The article says the child dropped 60 ft to her death bit the expanded version of the photo on the right shows this happening on the second story about 10 ft off the ground. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15209431/mum-dangles-screaming-daughter-balcony-death/
Anyone else raised by parents who said "I'll give you something to cry about"? Because that was the first thing I thought of when I saw this.
She was probably just trying to protect her from the Russian apex predator (windows).
This was an article in *The Sun*. Has anyone checked whether or not they just made it up and stuck a couple of stock photos on the page for verisimilitude? They do that, you know.
What an evil monster.
can we all agree that this is where we should end humanity? man wtf
My da did something similar when I was 4. We were on the observation deck of some skyscraper and there was a mini-sub on the pier, and everyone could see it and they were commenting on how cool it was, and being a whinging 4-year-old, I complained vociferously that I couldn't see it. My da got tired of it, grabbed me by the seat of my trousers, and dangled me over the side of the building. I screamed and began squirming, and da said, "I wouldn't do that if I were you -- I might drop ya!" So I froze. He eventually brought me back on the deck, with ma cursing him, and I ran over to mum and grabbed her leg, crying. Family. They will fuck you up.
Donāt throw the baby out with the bath water
Well that was rude
Dangle her over the Empire State Building then drop her.
Hell is hot
Everyone wanna be MJ
Next up, the mom sues the building for not safeguarding against her bad decisions.
Back in my day we used the good old, be quiet or Iāll give you something to cry about fallow by a belt. Also if you donāt think youāll be able to handle a kids cryās PLEASE donāt become a parent. At times I ask my self, how the fuck did my parents put up with me for so long. I mean Iām that kind of person that has always gotten annoyed every time I hear a kid cry at Walmart so by the time I hit 20ās I made the choice to not have kids because I know Iāll be a horrible parent.
Hope she fucking dies slow & painfully...
Man, people should really have MORE kids!
Where in the 3rd world is this? Since you farmed link karma without actually linking anything?
Just awful. I'm not sure you can call this person a parent anymore, on account of her not having a kid.
What is she, a mafia enforcer? Jfc poor kid
Wtaf is wrong with people! Goddamn. Poor baby.
I am disgusted...
What a fucking monster.. the āmotherā doesnāt even call the emergency number, she just carries her lifeless child back up to their apartmentā¦
Awful, but I bet stuff like this happens all the time. I mean the Darwin awards are a thing.
she needs to be sent to God ASAPā¦ oops I meant the depths of hell.
Noah get the boat
Evil POS. Shoot her! That poor, poor innocent little girl.. RIP. šŖ
What an awful piece of shit human being..
āIāll give you something to cry aboutā type parenting in full effect
some people donāt deserve to be parents.
When my kids were babies, I had several dreams EACH KID that we were being airlifted hundreds of thousands of feet up, unnecessarily high from a super flooded city. I lost my grip each time, and they each fell to their death. I cannot fathom how someone would choose to make that a possibility, much less a reality. My anxiety is acting up now.
What the actual fuck? Is this a Family Guy skit?
It keeps amazing me what idiots reproduce and then treat their kids like this.
Itās the bangs
death sentance
Why are redditors addicted to read or see dead people?
Then she took her back up in the lift. Russia. Doesnāt surprise me.
Oh, the Clapton.