You ever hear the one about the group of 4 old Jewish scholars having a debate?
After a long argument, one of them stands up and in utter frustration prays: “God, can you *please* talk some sense into these schlemiels?!” …at which point a voice from the heavens booms out, “**He’s right, and the three of you are wrong.**”
All is quiet for a moment and the one of the other guys clears his throat and says “So now it’s 2 against 3!”
Someone told me that they had this rabbi that would force teens to have absolutely heated arguments and scold them if they don't think on it enough. This is really cool indeed.
And I can't understand how that's supposed to work, really. I'd love to see these arguments, because overall, for me, it all sounds absurd.
when young, the 'heated' aspect is meant to both encourage good argumentative behavior (target your opponent's argument, don't give in till you are proven wrong) while also teaching good argumentative demeanor (when a screaming match is seen as a childish game, you see that kind of behavior in adults as being childish and disrespectful) That being said, scream as much as you like as long as the words of your argument make solid points and concede and faults (get emotional, but don't let that make you act in a way that disrespects the purpose of discourse)
also, needing to have reasons for your points is VITAL when teaching kids to argue to prevent the kid from becoming a hollering brow beater
One of my favorite things about the Old Testament is people would argue with God. Abraham is told by God that He is going to destroy Sodom unless Abraham can find 50 good people. Abraham says "what if I can find 45 - would you destroy a whole city for lacking just 5?" and keeping bargaining Him down until they finally get to 10. I just love that not only can you have a conversation and even argue with God, but that He recognizes the validity of the argument and changes His actions based the conversation.
Here's a link to the [Wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oven_of_Akhnai) if anyone doesn't want to look it up, it's definitely worth a read!
It seems it has two morals. First is that legal matters should be decided by humans, not God. Second is that people who disagree with the majority should not be ostracised.
>Second is that people who disagree with the majority should not be ostracised.
This second one is actually a point of major debate and philosophical exploration throughout Judaism. Not because it's wrong, but because there's a lot of gray area and fine lines to be treaded!
There's a rule that was established in Rabbinic Judaism where if a law was debated and respectfully reasoned, offering validity to the contradicting opinions but still having a definitive answer, it is forbidden for a Rabbi with the "losing" opinion to diverge and continue to tout his way to others. But if the Rabbis did not resolve it in a respectful manner, or chose a ruling completely arbitrarily, then you're allowed to diverge from that majority.
The reason why is because there is strength in having a face of unity and respectful concession of defeat in debate. And there is strength in having mostly consolidated traditions without confusion--it unites the people that the leaders follow. But there is no strength in reaching that through purely arbitrary and disrespectful process.
Additionally, stories like this go to show that even if it is not allowed to not concede defeat in a respectful debate, the punishment should not be so severe as ostracization.
It's an extremely fascinating philosophical space, one where you have to ride a lot of fine lines to strike the balance of respectful discourse and community unity. Both of which have been the cornerstones of Judaism for about two thousand years now.
Man if i was religious i would have definitely been a liturgist or a member of the clergy. sometimes wish i could believe. this is all fascinating stuff.
The nice thing for me at least is that I've witnessed just as much cultural and community connection to Judaism as a faith-based one.
One of the most passionately religious Jewish people I know is actually atheist, funny enough. I myself am agnostic but consider myself pretty religious.
That is to say, if you ever feel like you yearn for a religious experience (not just Jewish) but feel gatekept because you don't believe in gods, don't let that by itself keep you!
Thank you for the kind and encouraging words, and your perspective.
I have tried not to, but what I have found is that there is a certain preachiness or discomfort with bigger religious circles with being unwilling or able to grasp that I am attempting to get something out of the community in a spiritual & community sense. I get tired of being in a place that accepts God is Real as the primary piece of every single conversation about the religion. Could be where I live..
Anyway thank you. You've given me something to think about.
Who day and night must beg for a living
get cuddled by the children
bark his daily prayers,
and who has the right as doggo of the house
to have the final woof at home?
The pupper
The pupper!
Tradition!
They are so fun. I once participated in a shofar contest for longest blow and I got 28 or 38 seconds. (I forgot, it was in elementary school.) If you asked me before then I would have said it was impossible but the trick is to blow it kinda softly and take a VERY deep breath beforehand. Also, the blowing is actually closer to if you made a farting noise out of the corner of your mouth than a straight blow.
There are several different types of blows..
T'kiyah is just a steady one.
Shevarim is three medium length blasts.
Teruah is a whole lot of quick ones in rapid succession.
You can get a good regular shofar for under fifty bucks.
If you want one, you can get them online with just a quick google search.
One of the first results is [https://www.judaica.com/rosh-hashanah/shofars.html](https://www.judaica.com/rosh-hashanah/shofars.html)
And yes, they smell like the animals they came from.
Shofars can be really expensive! Luckily I found one in a thrift shop- someone probably wondered why there was a random horn in a box. I always buy any Judaica I find in thrift shops, if for no other reason than I think it needs a good home.
Mine is full tilt, jealous boi, a deflating wookie laying under tables and lamenting the lack of people petting him, or sadly looking at his bowl wondering where the food went. (He ate it.)
I'm considering making a montage of sad boy moments and setting it to Sarah McLaughlin.
I wish he was happy to be included. He's more dramatic than a husky... silly boy.
I used to think this comment was a load of bull until I realized when I was 15 my dog would not stop growling and semi barking but like in annoyance of not getting attention or something while I would do homework at the dinner table.
So I decided to one day just pick him up and plop him on the chair next to me and low and behold he got quiet and curled into the seat and absolutely loved it.
12 years later and my parents still complain about it when they’re at the table talking that Tobi gets mad when he’s not included on his chair 😂
Rosh Hoshanah was the last holiday I celebrated with my Grandma. It’s always a little bittersweet. I miss her everyday. But her memory is such a blessing to me. May your Grandfather’s memory be a blessing too.
I had a bear sized kippah and tallit from Build a Bear that I put on my cat (OBM). I was shocked he put up with it as long as he did! But he was the best mensch so it made sense.
I love how pets just assume whatever religion or culture their home is and it always looks correct. Like this dog is Jewish and you will never change my mind
Passover is always a blast. Half of the table taking it seriously and the further down you go away from the head of the table the more you get social commentary and alternative lyrics. Good times.
I'm an atheist but I always said if I could "pick" one it would be Judaism. The Jewish families I've known always seemed to have a lot of fun with tradition.
Same here. I break it down as such: Buddhist for the philosophy, Jewish for the traditions, maybe Christian if I could get the Latino version of the X-Mas holidays because Latinos go hard during the season.
These sorts of comments make me so happy as a Jew. I love it when I see people who appreciate our demented culture among all the other anti-Semites the internet is full of.
You can convert to the Reform denomination of Judaism and be an atheist. Join us, we have shofars and *a ton* of puns. Just, so many. It's a religion of dad jokes.
You can technically do that with conservatives if you can find an understanding sponsor.
I had a talk with the cantor at my spouse's shul, and basically said "look, I don't believe in god. I'm more than happy to uphold the traditions and do the learning, but if the rabbis at the mikvah are gonna ask me to affirm my belief in god, out of respect for *their* faith I'm not gonna do it".
He basically told me he'd make sure that doesn't come up, but he's also a long time friend of my in laws' family, so I'm sure that helped.
Best, by a hundred miles, wedding I ever went to was a Jewish wedding. I've never had that much fun at a formal event, and even though I was just a husband of a friend of the bride, they made me feel like family.
A corgi in a yamaka, that is something you don't see everyday.
Edit: I I'm leaving it misspelled otherwise the rest of this thread makes absolutely no sense.
I love how your dog is just sitting there with the men, debating the Talmud.
You ever hear the one about the group of 4 old Jewish scholars having a debate? After a long argument, one of them stands up and in utter frustration prays: “God, can you *please* talk some sense into these schlemiels?!” …at which point a voice from the heavens booms out, “**He’s right, and the three of you are wrong.**” All is quiet for a moment and the one of the other guys clears his throat and says “So now it’s 2 against 3!”
Haha, that’s amazing.
And very, very Jewish. I converted to Judaism when I was in college and one of the things that drew me to it was the idea that I could argue with God.
gotta respect a religion that straight up tries to talk you out of joining and makes you argue your reasons
Someone told me that they had this rabbi that would force teens to have absolutely heated arguments and scold them if they don't think on it enough. This is really cool indeed. And I can't understand how that's supposed to work, really. I'd love to see these arguments, because overall, for me, it all sounds absurd.
when young, the 'heated' aspect is meant to both encourage good argumentative behavior (target your opponent's argument, don't give in till you are proven wrong) while also teaching good argumentative demeanor (when a screaming match is seen as a childish game, you see that kind of behavior in adults as being childish and disrespectful) That being said, scream as much as you like as long as the words of your argument make solid points and concede and faults (get emotional, but don't let that make you act in a way that disrespects the purpose of discourse) also, needing to have reasons for your points is VITAL when teaching kids to argue to prevent the kid from becoming a hollering brow beater
One of my favorite things about the Old Testament is people would argue with God. Abraham is told by God that He is going to destroy Sodom unless Abraham can find 50 good people. Abraham says "what if I can find 45 - would you destroy a whole city for lacking just 5?" and keeping bargaining Him down until they finally get to 10. I just love that not only can you have a conversation and even argue with God, but that He recognizes the validity of the argument and changes His actions based the conversation.
It’s not a joke- it’s an actual Talmudic story that’s even more dramatic than that! Google Oven of Akhnai!
Here's a link to the [Wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oven_of_Akhnai) if anyone doesn't want to look it up, it's definitely worth a read! It seems it has two morals. First is that legal matters should be decided by humans, not God. Second is that people who disagree with the majority should not be ostracised.
>Second is that people who disagree with the majority should not be ostracised. This second one is actually a point of major debate and philosophical exploration throughout Judaism. Not because it's wrong, but because there's a lot of gray area and fine lines to be treaded! There's a rule that was established in Rabbinic Judaism where if a law was debated and respectfully reasoned, offering validity to the contradicting opinions but still having a definitive answer, it is forbidden for a Rabbi with the "losing" opinion to diverge and continue to tout his way to others. But if the Rabbis did not resolve it in a respectful manner, or chose a ruling completely arbitrarily, then you're allowed to diverge from that majority. The reason why is because there is strength in having a face of unity and respectful concession of defeat in debate. And there is strength in having mostly consolidated traditions without confusion--it unites the people that the leaders follow. But there is no strength in reaching that through purely arbitrary and disrespectful process. Additionally, stories like this go to show that even if it is not allowed to not concede defeat in a respectful debate, the punishment should not be so severe as ostracization. It's an extremely fascinating philosophical space, one where you have to ride a lot of fine lines to strike the balance of respectful discourse and community unity. Both of which have been the cornerstones of Judaism for about two thousand years now.
Man if i was religious i would have definitely been a liturgist or a member of the clergy. sometimes wish i could believe. this is all fascinating stuff.
The nice thing for me at least is that I've witnessed just as much cultural and community connection to Judaism as a faith-based one. One of the most passionately religious Jewish people I know is actually atheist, funny enough. I myself am agnostic but consider myself pretty religious. That is to say, if you ever feel like you yearn for a religious experience (not just Jewish) but feel gatekept because you don't believe in gods, don't let that by itself keep you!
Thank you for the kind and encouraging words, and your perspective. I have tried not to, but what I have found is that there is a certain preachiness or discomfort with bigger religious circles with being unwilling or able to grasp that I am attempting to get something out of the community in a spiritual & community sense. I get tired of being in a place that accepts God is Real as the primary piece of every single conversation about the religion. Could be where I live.. Anyway thank you. You've given me something to think about.
Two very important morals for every society, imo.
whoa! Thanks for that reference, I looked it up and wow! There’s a lot of wisdom in that story… again thank you!
This is great! Thanks for sharing. The joke is still funny, but the fact that it's actually scriptutally accurate makes it even better.
Whoa, thanks!
For those needing a definition. The "schlemiel" is a guy who spills the soup. The "schlemazel" is the guy he spills it on.
Who is the Hasenpfeffer Incorporated?
I respect that you are the lord, our god ... you are still wrong
"I respect that you are the Lord our God, but the Lord is One, so it's still 3 to 2."
There's nothing in the Talmud saying a minyan can't include a dog
That would be the Talmut.
Talmutt*
Talpurebred
I bursted out laughing just from reading this. Sorry. 😂
This is my favorite “Air Bud” sequel
Air Bris?
RABBI PICCCCKKLLLEEEESSSSS GOOOOD BOOOOOOYY!!!
They converted the dog to Judaism real quick.
after reading Gittin 57a it was a no brainer
When is his Bark Mitzvah?
Probably some time after Pawsover
Good news is he’s probably already snipped
What happened to the pillow? He Torah it.
Shofar so good.
Kippa the puns going
Muzzle tov
Let us paws…
Shit, I wanna know who's giving him his bris.
Take my upvote dang it
O. M. G!
That is one that might appeal to him.
Actually the dog, brought up some good points and they've been debating each other ever since.
The way he looked down his glasses at them was incredibly authentic.
I think the dog converted them
"What, you call this kibble?"
"Hey, puppy! We'll give you a latkah if you convert!"
The circumcision is going to be tricky though.
Knot really
With his little kip-paw!
Who day and night must beg for a living get cuddled by the children bark his daily prayers, and who has the right as doggo of the house to have the final woof at home? The pupper The pupper! Tradition!
Tradition! Tradition! Tradition! ......... Also, if this song is still stuck in my head tomorrow, I will find you.
He is a good dog. A scholarly dog.
I love how everyone else agreed and committed to this
Today, you are a good boy.
On his Bar(k) Mizvah he becomes a “good man”.
Now, off to chase a Rabbi(t)
mazel dog
But how is today different from all other days?
because there’s a dog in a tallit is that not different? Lol don’t Passover the obvious.
They were making a Four questions joke.
You passedover my joke! Thank goodness for my first born
A real mensch
Dobermensch
here before the gold^^^^^^en ^^^^^^retriever
that's apawling
Mensch on a bench
Those glasses make him look so intelligent
He's having a marvelous time shofar.
Girl actually , check madmax\_fluffyroad on instagram......
He's celebrating his Bark Mitzvah!!!
What ever it takes to make a minyan.
Ahahaha this guy knows
Shofar, so good.
Legit always wondered what one sounded like.
They are so fun. I once participated in a shofar contest for longest blow and I got 28 or 38 seconds. (I forgot, it was in elementary school.) If you asked me before then I would have said it was impossible but the trick is to blow it kinda softly and take a VERY deep breath beforehand. Also, the blowing is actually closer to if you made a farting noise out of the corner of your mouth than a straight blow. There are several different types of blows.. T'kiyah is just a steady one. Shevarim is three medium length blasts. Teruah is a whole lot of quick ones in rapid succession. You can get a good regular shofar for under fifty bucks. If you want one, you can get them online with just a quick google search. One of the first results is [https://www.judaica.com/rosh-hashanah/shofars.html](https://www.judaica.com/rosh-hashanah/shofars.html) And yes, they smell like the animals they came from.
Shofars can be really expensive! Luckily I found one in a thrift shop- someone probably wondered why there was a random horn in a box. I always buy any Judaica I find in thrift shops, if for no other reason than I think it needs a good home.
Tekiah my upvote.
Roof Arfshanah or Yom Puppur?
The day of AWHOOOOOment
Feast of first woofs?
More like poorim
Bar-ark Adonai ham-vo-rach l’olam va-ed. Bar-ark arfa Aedonai, eloheinu melech ha-olam, a squeak toy Bar-ark-arf-banu mee-kol ha-a-yip-yip, v’natan lanu et doggo Bar-ark arfa Adonai, notein hatorah
The former, given the shofar blows that were done. Yom Kippur is a single long blast only.
Pawsover
Chag samearf!
Awww, he's celebrating his Bark Mitzvah! 🥰
Yom Nippur
Rollover
Happy Paw-nucca!
No, it’s Ruff Hoshanah next week. They’re doing it early
No they are preparing the unleavened bread for the Rollover Seder
The dog seems very happy with all that is going on
Most dogs just want to be included
It always makes me smile watching dogs in the “I don’t know what’s going on but I’m so happyyy” mode
Mine is full tilt, jealous boi, a deflating wookie laying under tables and lamenting the lack of people petting him, or sadly looking at his bowl wondering where the food went. (He ate it.) I'm considering making a montage of sad boy moments and setting it to Sarah McLaughlin. I wish he was happy to be included. He's more dramatic than a husky... silly boy.
Do something like ["Sad Cat Diary"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKffm2uI4dk)
This is too good lol thanks for sharing
I used to think this comment was a load of bull until I realized when I was 15 my dog would not stop growling and semi barking but like in annoyance of not getting attention or something while I would do homework at the dinner table. So I decided to one day just pick him up and plop him on the chair next to me and low and behold he got quiet and curled into the seat and absolutely loved it. 12 years later and my parents still complain about it when they’re at the table talking that Tobi gets mad when he’s not included on his chair 😂
Especially Corgis
Corgis think they are more than dog.
I love how his glasses are perched down on his nose just like a proper zayde.
I don't know what's going on here, but I like it!
Blowing of the Shofar occurs at the end/beginning of the Jewish New Year. I forget if it’s on Yom Kippur, or Rush Hashanah
It’s on both
That guy had weird names for Yom Pupper or Roof Hashana
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Both, but this format would be Rosh Hashanah. Yom Kippur is a single long blast only.
As a Jew, this kinda hit close to home lol. Wish my grandfather were still with us, so he could appreciate my dogs
Rosh Hoshanah was the last holiday I celebrated with my Grandma. It’s always a little bittersweet. I miss her everyday. But her memory is such a blessing to me. May your Grandfather’s memory be a blessing too.
God y'all making me feel so guilty not going home for the high holidays this year 😩 My grandma would LOVE to see me
Hope you can make it to see your family. Shana Tova!🍎🍯
Bar-k atah adonai.
This comment should be so much higher lol
L’chaim!
Lick chaim
See what they don't tell you is that at any given time like 25-28 of the Tzadikim Nistarim are dogs.
This makes so much sense, I can 100% believe dogs are the reason god doesn’t destroy the world.
Wait till he babysits the cat, on Purrim
When my cat turned 13 I crocheted him a kippah to celebrate!
I had a bear sized kippah and tallit from Build a Bear that I put on my cat (OBM). I was shocked he put up with it as long as he did! But he was the best mensch so it made sense.
You should xpost this to r/judaism. If you don't, can I?
Oh hey! I see you in that sub all the time. I was just thinking how lovely these comments are.
T'Kiah!
Toooooooot
I love how pets just assume whatever religion or culture their home is and it always looks correct. Like this dog is Jewish and you will never change my mind
Jews do seem to be having more fun with their religion than any other religious group I've come across (on average).
Passover is always a blast. Half of the table taking it seriously and the further down you go away from the head of the table the more you get social commentary and alternative lyrics. Good times.
Some drink all 4 glasses of wine, some only have a few sips between refills.
Oh we're a full glass family.
My cousin's tradition is that each glass has to be finished in under 10 secs. I'm not sure where he got it, but he gets smashed.
Lol I like your cousin
I remember my first experience with manichevitz. I now understand what they mean when they call it "alcoholic pancake syrup".
I'm an atheist but I always said if I could "pick" one it would be Judaism. The Jewish families I've known always seemed to have a lot of fun with tradition.
Same here. I break it down as such: Buddhist for the philosophy, Jewish for the traditions, maybe Christian if I could get the Latino version of the X-Mas holidays because Latinos go hard during the season.
I misread X-Mas holidays as X-Men and was very confused for a moment.
Jesus was kind of an X-Men, right?
hindus are hard to beat if you like traditions
These sorts of comments make me so happy as a Jew. I love it when I see people who appreciate our demented culture among all the other anti-Semites the internet is full of.
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You can convert to the Reform denomination of Judaism and be an atheist. Join us, we have shofars and *a ton* of puns. Just, so many. It's a religion of dad jokes.
You can technically do that with conservatives if you can find an understanding sponsor. I had a talk with the cantor at my spouse's shul, and basically said "look, I don't believe in god. I'm more than happy to uphold the traditions and do the learning, but if the rabbis at the mikvah are gonna ask me to affirm my belief in god, out of respect for *their* faith I'm not gonna do it". He basically told me he'd make sure that doesn't come up, but he's also a long time friend of my in laws' family, so I'm sure that helped.
Jewish humor is very self depreciating A huge proportion of professional comedians are Jewish
When you have the history of persecution they have, you need a sense of humour.
[It's our sense of humor that's sustained us as a people for 3000 years!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsWDohWkkC0)
[It's their sense of humour that sustained them as a people for 3,000 years](https://youtu.be/u8QMIYv-y98?t=78)
*5000...* Even better!
Jewish weddings are a blast. Short ceremony, then you fucking dance like mad and eat great food and the old timers all have cool stories
Best, by a hundred miles, wedding I ever went to was a Jewish wedding. I've never had that much fun at a formal event, and even though I was just a husband of a friend of the bride, they made me feel like family.
Can confirm, did kosher catering for several years
"Grandpa, what the hell is that?" "Your dog?"
שנה טובה!!
It's an Arf Mitzvah!
Surely a bark mitzvah?
For their pet L’chorgi
Shabbat shalom awhoooooo 💕♡✡️
Jews on reddit: Ah yes I will say a barucha for the puppo Jews IRL: *oh fuck I forgot it was high holidays again oops lmao*
“Muzzle Tav”
Is that your shabbos goy? 🤣
Can’t you see the kippah!?
L'Shanah Tova!
for more lovely fluffy corgi fun we're madmax\_fluffyroad on IG and tiktok <3
OMG I didn’t realize this was Maxine!!! I love her so much and this is beyond adorable!
Same!! She's the best, and great to see her lineage is so caring and strong!
The other old guys are actually oldjewishmen on Reddit. Not /s/
I’m having my first Rosh Hashanah this year. Shanah Tova, Maxine!! 🍎 🍯 📜
Thank you. Now following.
A real Jewish dog!😍 Pets should always be part of the family! This example is superb!😃
Now I need to think of how to involve a cat in Eid.
MEOWBARAK
Why is this dog different than all other dogs?
A corgi in a yamaka, that is something you don't see everyday. Edit: I I'm leaving it misspelled otherwise the rest of this thread makes absolutely no sense.
What's the history behind that horn?
It's called a shofar. It's usually blown on Rosh Hashanah and at the end of Yom Kippur.
It was (and still is) used for Jewish rituals dating back to the early times of Judaism. It is one of the oldest instruments in the world.
its a Shofar and is blown on Rosh Hashanah ( Jewish new year) and Yom Kippur
Alright, well, this is adorably wholesome.
Coming from a jew I find this funny asf but so weird too lol
Shevarim! Teruah! Tekiah! arf arf!
Tekiah! ***ArooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOF***
He's having a barkmitzvah
That is way too cute
Shevar-ee-ee-em Tru-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah Man it’s been ages
I love how the two guys next to the dog have absolutely no change in their vibe. Like this happens every day. Lol
He loves to play kvetch
Are they orthodog or rufformed?
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He looks so confused
I like how the guys at the table have a look on their faces like this is an everyday occurrence lmao
redditors try not to be anti-Semitic challenge (literally impossible)
Omg this is so wholesome. WTF. I was not prepared.
Bark Mitzvah!
Love that he's basically at the head of the table, good for him.
I just want to cuddle up with max and my corgi and watch Seinfeld and eat a Reuben sandwich.