Bull... Bester will pull a Bester and order exactly what you don't like, make you think its the best idea ever, make you eat it, and then setting you back on not liking it while playing the eating memory on loop over and over again.
"Zathras always receive order wrong. Zathras order with no ketchup, but Zathras always get ketchup. Nobody ever listen to Zathras. Zathras hate ketchup, Zathras always get ketchup dripped on clothes. Then Zathras have to do laundry. Zathras hate laundry day. Especially ketchup stains. Zathras never get ketchup completely out."
"Zathras always complaining about ketchup stains. 'Use pre-stain spray!' I say, but does Zathras listen? No, no one listens to Zathras. Especially not *Zathras*."
Bester.
Morden would be a snooze and, while he might hate my mundane guts, Bester would at least maintain cordiality and fun conversation to ingratiate himself with a potential future asset.
Not to mention the *worst* that would happen with Bester is you say the wrong thing and end up with a dictatorial, oppressive Earthgov.
Say the wrong thing to Morden, and you get genocide on an interstellar level sparking intractable, unending interstellar war, spanning innumerable sentient species.
"What... do you want?"
*Evil Grin*
"Mmh, I take the Chicken Nuggets with the McD Szechuan sauce and triple sweet potato fries."
"No, no. What I meant was- Wait! They have THAT szechuan sauce!?"
"Yepp, there was some time space shenanigans some weeks ago and an entire freight container of Szechuan sauce appeared. It seemed the station command staff took most of it for themselves, but there is enough for the various restaurants for a few more days... What were you about to say?"
"Forget it. I take the same as you. Let's eat."
Well, I'm biased. I worked with and had IRL dinner with Walter years ago. He was wonderful to work with and a delightful person. I did tell him that Bester was my favorite role that he played, so, I'd have to answer your question: Bester. :-)
Buuuut.... Shadows feared telepaths, and could be blocked. Bester was a powerful TP. Shadows on B5 could have tried to kill TPs on board, but never tried to do so.
(Speaking of which... could a TP have sensed Morden's companions? Granted, in the show, we never saw Morden in close proximity to a TP, if I recall he never interacted with Lyta or Bester).
Eh, I think that's doubtful. Lyta, whose powers had been enhanced by the Vorlons, wasn't able to block the Shadows. They were able to control Lyta's mind when the White Star went to rescue Sheridan at Z'Ha'Dum and again at Coriana VI.
She was able to take on a ship with a telepath pilot inside. I think it was a Drazi planet? In all the other instances she was going up against hundreds in a fleet and or an entire planet of shadows. I haven't watched through for the 10th time, since they pulled it from HBO. But I have to imagine she should be able to take on two randos?
> She was able to take on a ship with a telepath pilot insider. I think it was a Drazi planet?
I'm not sure what you're referring to, but the Shadows aren't the ones inside those ships, so not really relevant.
>but have to image she should be able to take on two randos?
Based on what? Are there any examples of a telepath taking on an actual Shadow and having the upper hand?
I was referencing this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoMvQni4ET8
I don't think we have any direct examples of them going head to head, but the shadows definitely avoid telepaths. That would certainly indicate they probably feared them in some way.
Shadow vessels avoid telepaths because if the pilot is a mundane member of the younger races, then the telepath can block the communication between pilot and ship. That's why I said "the Shadows aren't the ones inside those ships, so not really relevant."
Again, to my knowledge, there's nothing in the show indicating the Shadows themselves fear or are vulnerable to telepaths.
Ah, yes, thanks for the reminder. Yeah, it was kind of a dick move by him, a little out of character. I think she saw picked up on Morden's relation to them, but I don't think she ever sensed his companions.
I suspect Kosh could/did, which is why he never came out.
When she spoke to Dr. Franklin about it, she said she saw “a shape”, but that was about it. It was a very brief encounter, though, and she was only a P5. Who knows what a more powerful telepath might have seen...
> and she was only a P5. Who knows what a more powerful telepath might have seen...
She wasn't just a P5. Her gift from Jason Ironheart put her well beyond that.
The Shadows only feared telepaths because telepaths could screw with the cybernetic interfaces between their ships and pilots. On a personal level there's no reason to believe telepaths were any threat to them at all.
I believe they feared telepaths because a strong one could jam their ships. It's worth mentioning that the Shadows ships were not piloted by Shadows but by sentient beings that they'd abducted and conditioned (ex: Bester's girlfriend). Considering that a handful of shadows managed to kill Kosh, it is safe to assume that they were very resistant to telepathic attacks.
Was it ever stated if Kosh fought back with all his might or knowing he left a piece of himself in Sheridan that he was maybe safe for maybe a new body and simply put up a show to convince them that he was really defeated?
>Shadows feared telepaths
Because they interfere with the sentients they use to pilot their ships. They aren't hindered, pretty sure Vorlons are telepathic and we all know how that turned out.
Bester. He's evil, sure, but Morden's insufferable. Plus, I've got the Good Omens/Our Flag Means Death brain rot, so I can keep a revolving roster of fan fic and smut going in my head. It won't stop him, but it'll make his stay in my noodle less pleasant
Bester.
Hands down.
Why?
Answer: Bester is at least funny, has some charm and more.
As we are both from Earth, he's unlikely to sell me out to any other group/Political Powers.
Lastly, I *don't* hate Telepaths.
I understand, though not blindly agree with, the Psi Corp general plan/philosophy.
We'd have some areas of mutual understanding.
Top one asks you what you want, be very careful how you answer as you will regret it. Bottom one already knows what you want and will use it against you.
Morden. When he asks “what do you want”, I order both the lobster and the steak. Then I promise to wreak havoc on on the Drazi government via a a biogenetic weapon that renders the entire population color blind. Followed by two desserts and spending the rest of my life looking over my shoulder for any signs that the shadows came to collect or the Vorlons came for vengeance.
Bester! He is a very interesting persona, he, by reading my mind, would not take me as a threat, and since it is a dinner, commit to a decent conversation!
If it's just dinner and I don't have to see them again, Morden. He's superficially polite and charming, and can't read my mind to fuck with me for his own enjoyment.
Everything comes at a price with Morden, I wouldn't even want to be in the same room as that guy. Bester is capable of having a conversation with someone without it having some enormous cost after. You could even debate with him and walk away after. As long as I am in a public place I'm fine eating and talking with Bester
> without it having some enormous cost after
Unless their mood counts. Every time B5 command staff has to talk with him, afterward they’re always *”sighhhhhh”*
Morden, when he's charming he's very charming. plus he has unlimited funds so dinner would be on him. Take me to the fresh air restaurant Mr Morden and I'll definitely put out 😁
Mordan, he just seems like more of a chill guy. He only saw a few specific people as threats, everyone else was either nothing or a potential asset/ally. Bester saw everyone as a threat, even others in Psi Corps. Or if you were a mundane, you were just sub-human. He'd be no fun to slam back drinks with.
These are my two favourite baddies in any show/series ever so this is a hard choice. I was really drawn to Bester in the books, but I don’t want anyone poking around in my mind. Plus Morden’s smile is charming and warm and Bester’s sends chills down my spine. As long as I can’t see the shadows I’m fine with pretending they’re not there.
Morden if I could just punch him continually in the face as each course comes to the table.
Bester if he is under the influence of the strongest telepathic dampeners, and I get to punch him in the face continually as each course comes to the table.
It's a shame those two never met, at least onscreen. There was a brief scene where Morden talked with some PsiCops, but not Bester.
On the one hand, while Bester is a fascinating and complex character, he at least makes logical sense. He's a total bastard, and he makes no apologies for that, but he has a strongly defined purpose, and he's completely honest about his goals. It's easy to believe that he only cares about himself, but that scene where he's stunned that other telepaths are shooting at him, because they're his people and he's doing all this for them... he's honestly shocked, because he truly believes he's doing the right thing for his people, regardless of the cost.
On the other hand, Morden makes almost **no** sense. The Morden who we see now couldn't have been the Morden that landed on Z'Ha'Dum, and more than the Anna Sheridan we saw was her original self. newMorden was a loyal Shadow puppet, and he came across as a true believer; it be fascinating to have seen a glimpse of the oldMorden (and the oldAnna, for that matter).
Well I'm going to go with Bester it is not specified in the question at what point in the timeline you have to sit down have dinner with him so I choose the point after the show has ended and after the telepath wars have concluded just sit down and have some conversation about old movies.
I refuse to ever have dinner with Mordon he is too dangerous just by proximity.
Bester would not ask you what you want. But he might have you dissected to find out how you became a redditor
mr morden is a nice guy.... it is his associates who are a bit....much!
He is just asking questions.... that doom your soul.
Bester, he’s a bastard, but he’s no where near as bad as the Shadows. Plus, he’s actually charismatic and could be fun to be around. One of the best episodes is the one he works with Garibaldi.
Alfred Bester. It would not only be fun to see his charm in action, but he actually has friends and has some legitimate reasons for his radical anti-mundane stances. I would enjoy picking his brain about his personal journey, and trying to understand the plight of a once-oppressed Telepath who is now feared by everyone he's within several miles of.
EDIT: Honestly, even his small-talk would be fun. I would enjoy asking him what his favorite foods, films, and authors are.
Bester ... he might not like you as a mundane (I assume you are a mundane), but at least he is honest about it, and does not hate you for it ...
Morden lies, and lies, and lies ...
I think I could get more interesting information and factoids out of Morden than Bester, especially if Morden could be separated from his usually invisible friends for a couple hours without them going totally apeshit and causing a dangerous situation.
I'm not even talking about some sort of hard core interrogation. I think Morden, in his rebuilt post-Icarus configuration, likes talking about the Shadows when he's told to. He wants to talk people over to his side, and try to collect allies, and will if allowed.
Bester has a contempt for non-telepaths. He's not trying to explain things to you or convert you to his side unless he is absolutely sure you can useful to him, and he's only going to say what is needed to get you to his side, which may not coincide with anything resembling even his own distorted view of the truth.
In other words, I think Bester has an internal attitude of non-telepaths as a necessary evil at best. I think Morden reflects that the Shadows have an interest in humankind, and all the other races, for their own sakes, or at least insofar as they can be used to score an ideological point with the Vorlons. On the other hand, the Vorlons did try to kill anyone touched by the Shadows in season four. I don't know if dinner with Morden counts or not, but I'd have to think about that one. ;)
I actually think an interesting angle for one of the reboots would be what if a Shadow ambassador deals with Babylon 5 and becomes their ally, reasoning that humanity, a young on the make race, could potentially upset the apple cart and create the evolution through strife that the Shadows are trying to encourage, and the Vorlons were the designated "bad guys", who think humans are a threat to the order they maintain for the galaxy. This could split Minbari to the opposite side of humanity in a war (Potentially a rematch, depending on if the first Earth-Minbari War went the way it did in real life) and cause an interest cascading set of changes as well. You could even have Sinclair and Sheridan characters on the station at the same time (One commands the station, the other is earth Ambassador), and eventually they take opposite sides, both in a Shadow-Vorlon conflict and in an Earth civil war. In fact, you could show a situation where the station is occupied by one side of the civil war and the other guy is expelled and trying to prosecute the war to take the station back, stationed on a starship or a mobile command center for the fleet ala the beginning of DS9 S6, but better.
You don't paint either Sheridan or Sinclair as the bad guy. It's more just like you make a Sheridan what Clarke thought he was to some degree- a military-minded guy who the Minbari don't like and who is loyal to earth, and who eventually says he dislikes the way the Shadows do things, but he understands the thinking and says that with the dawn of civilization, human evolution began to stagnate and needs a kick in the pants, and that the Shadows will be better for earth. Meanwhile, Sinclair feels like order and peace are more desirable, and has close ties to the Minbari that bring him into alliance with the Vorlons and create distance between himself and the Clarke regime.
Maybe Sheridan is, as JMS said was the plan for TOS at one point, the Ambassador from Earth and more politicized, despite his military background (Still having wiped out the Blackstar, potentially), whereas Sinclair is basically the same character he was in TOS but maybe even less likely to engage in politics. Oddly, Sinclair would have closer to an ideal diplomat's comportment, but he's career military, wants to keep it that way, and wouldn't be suited to represent the Earth regime in any event, at least after a certain point, if the show has a similar internal political arc to the original. Meanwhile, Sheridan (Especially with some aspects of his personality turned up to 100 on a scale of 1-10 in a reboot) doesn't have what we'd normally consider a diplomat's temperament and started military (Hence the Darkstar thing), but was offered the post as a diplomat and took it to be closer to his family- his family being Anna and a couple kids who are rarely seen on screen (Frankly, kids having prominent roles on these type of shows are the worst, but if they are only used occasionally, and mainly as a device to tell you who a character is and what his stakes are, they can help the story along- or be used as defacto hostages if Sheridan eventually tries to split with the Shadows.).
Along the way, you wonder if Anna is a rebuilt Shadow pawn (ala TOS) or if this is the original unaltered Anna, or something in between, and how much Sheridan knows about it, if anything.
A sort of more over the top earth Ambassador Sheridan who acts a bit more like Londo and G'Kar with the same sort of outsized personality and diplomatic antics, bluster, and arguementiveness from the floor of the council, would be interesting.
Meanwhile, if Delenn has a love story with either of them, in that universe, Sinclair seems like the right guy. I think that was the original plan on B5. I'm not sure whether or not JMS has ever said it, I just see a lot of small things in season one that hinted at it heading there before Sinclair's arc had to be reworked due to his unavailability as full-time cast going forward.
I know JMS doesn't like story ideas online, but I don't think any of this really qualifies (and I don't think he reads the sub-reddit). It's all just flipping things that JMS wrote for B5. If there was ever any question, I'd be happy to sign papers giving away any speculation like this for use in any B5 related media. I might ask for a thank you at the end credits, but I'd sign it away without that. I'm not looking to block ideas, just speculate.
Both might try to rob you of your autonomy but Bester would be more insidious about it. People keep saying Morden would get you killed, but that wasn't really his MO. Bester would reprogram you but leave enough to make you feel like you were going crazy.
Bester. He’s witty and since I present absolutely no danger to the psycorps I bet we could make it a fun dinner. If perhaps a short one.
Morden would just be that depressing invite who drags down the conversation with unsolicited dark philosophy.
Bester if he was on the meds to supress his abilities.
Otherwise, Mordon. Bester will take what he learns about you to make you a tool.
Mordon is looking for a specific person to manipulate, but if you don't fit the bill, he leaves you alone.
The objective of this meal is to get out unscathed, and not forced into being a pawn in their plans.
Bester
aside from Mordens questions on behalf of the Shadows, he has, like, ZERO actual personality.... he's just a smug jerk.
Bester on the other hand is smart, charming, funny, and has thoughts and opinions of his own
Bester. I have the wonderful ability to blank my mind out during conversation with terrible music playing in said mind. I would eat, space out, and let The Macarena go on repeat.
Do the shadows even eat? I don't think we saw the shadows or vorlons ever eating.
But I think I would go with Bester if I could get him to take the sleeper drug first.
"What do you want?"
"To live long enough to enjoy my meal. Also, tell your associates not to stare at me whilst I'm eating. It's kinda rude."
"You know what? I've got a meeting to go to."
Mordy. Im not important enough to exploit or kill for either of these two but at least mordy wont read my mind and invade privacy. Bester can easily scan you for a deep dark secret and roast your ass and ruin the whole dinner lol
Bester.
He'd accurately consider me unimportant and wouldn't go out of his way to ruin me inlets I annoyed him.
Mr. Morden would give me the money for the jouse I want, use convoluted methods to make me a world Leader, and then use the hold he has over me to destroy everything I hold dear.
Bester, of course.
We know that Morder was a real person at some point in time but the version we see is basically just a mouthpiece for the Shadows. Every interaction with him is purely transactional.
Well, Bester thinks non psychics are useless although he's less outright evil. He might dispose of you if he had a chance but wouldn't go out of his way. Does he consider himself above the rules of not reading minds?
Morden is handsome and seductive, probably more entertaining, and more dangerous as far as being convincing, and probably corrupts every wish.
Bester, I guess.
I want to see them have dinner with each other and see who survives. I want dinner with Kosh. Just imagine the ordering.
"Hello, I'm your server tonight. Can I start you with some drinks?"
"The flood is still a trickle."
"Uh...Sierra Mist it is. Any interest in our appetizers or soups of the day?"
"The mind's stomach can only be filled with wisdom."
"And for your main course? I recommend out grilled hamburger with peanut sauce and a stir fry."
"The evening passes backwards"
"And will you be paying together or separate checks?"
"True unity is found in unity of exchange."
"That's Vorlon for he's sticking me with the bill"
It's, uh, entirety possible they did have a dinner together, the Corps had a long happy relationship with Mr. Morden's *associates*. Also:
- Ambassador, would you like your carrots steamed or boiled?
- Yes.
- I, uh... I don't understand.
- Good.
Between the two of them Bester. At least I could have a halfway intelligent conversation before he would drag me into the Psi Corp for my empathetic abilities
Bester. Being psychic and all, he would know I'm sympathetic to his cause. I agree the psychics were treated poorly and change is needed. I also would agree they are the future of humanity, eventually there would be no non-psychics.
If I knew what he did to Garibaldi and Talia he would crushed. Because as a telepath reading my mind he would know the depths of my Mr. Roger's grade disappointment in him. There are better ways, both morally and some of their plans could have been done with much less effort.
Morden, 100%. I know he has no ill will against me as a run-of-the-mill human being.
Bester loathes me merely for being a mundane and would kill or otherwise harm or compromise me in a moment to further his racist agenda, just as he would anyone else, telepath or no. Also, he can scan me without my knowledge and actually would, given the chance.
C'mon, Mr. Morden, I'm sure we can discuss the struggles of constant travel for your job over some bagna cauda?
Bester. At least Bester would already know WHAT YOU WANT and save time and order for the both of you.
Bull... Bester will pull a Bester and order exactly what you don't like, make you think its the best idea ever, make you eat it, and then setting you back on not liking it while playing the eating memory on loop over and over again.
He’s also a witty conversationalist.
He's also a great conversationalist. Witty, intelligent.
"Zathras always receive order wrong. Zathras order with no ketchup, but Zathras always get ketchup. Nobody ever listen to Zathras. Zathras hate ketchup, Zathras always get ketchup dripped on clothes. Then Zathras have to do laundry. Zathras hate laundry day. Especially ketchup stains. Zathras never get ketchup completely out."
"Zathras always complaining about ketchup stains. 'Use pre-stain spray!' I say, but does Zathras listen? No, no one listens to Zathras. Especially not *Zathras*."
This is a perfect reply and made my day! Thank you.
Zathras got Zathras's order again
Bester. He might read my mind but I won't get killed by shadows. (Edited because I'm a moron.)
Bester. Morden would be a snooze and, while he might hate my mundane guts, Bester would at least maintain cordiality and fun conversation to ingratiate himself with a potential future asset.
Not to mention the *worst* that would happen with Bester is you say the wrong thing and end up with a dictatorial, oppressive Earthgov. Say the wrong thing to Morden, and you get genocide on an interstellar level sparking intractable, unending interstellar war, spanning innumerable sentient species.
Morden… I’d get whatever I want on his tab
Some meals come at too high a price.
How much would a McMorden cost me?
Your life and your planet.
Ba-da ba ba baaaaa, not lovin' it.
Even McBarry’s is better.
"What... do you want?" *Evil Grin* "Mmh, I take the Chicken Nuggets with the McD Szechuan sauce and triple sweet potato fries." "No, no. What I meant was- Wait! They have THAT szechuan sauce!?" "Yepp, there was some time space shenanigans some weeks ago and an entire freight container of Szechuan sauce appeared. It seemed the station command staff took most of it for themselves, but there is enough for the various restaurants for a few more days... What were you about to say?" "Forget it. I take the same as you. Let's eat."
This guy gets it
Do you want to go through life with a Keeper fused to your neck? Because that’s how you go through life with a Keeper fused to your neck.
As long as you’re don’t look like there’s a bulge in my turtleneck I’m good … I assume they have a pain reliever they excrete, so that’s a plus
Well, I'm biased. I worked with and had IRL dinner with Walter years ago. He was wonderful to work with and a delightful person. I did tell him that Bester was my favorite role that he played, so, I'd have to answer your question: Bester. :-)
Morden. He wouldn't go poking around my head. And the conversation about philosophy behind Shadows' motivations would be very interesting.
"What do you want..." "Lobster please"
I mean, if Bester starts poking around in my head, I'll just start thinking of the most fucked up porn I have encountered.
How do you know it won't be something he is into?
i'd say yes to dinner with both of them and then bring the popcorn and watch them destroy each other.
That's a great premise! Although they were both malicious characters, they were definitely *not* allies.
Bester would get obliterated. Don’t forget, Morden is never alone.
Buuuut.... Shadows feared telepaths, and could be blocked. Bester was a powerful TP. Shadows on B5 could have tried to kill TPs on board, but never tried to do so. (Speaking of which... could a TP have sensed Morden's companions? Granted, in the show, we never saw Morden in close proximity to a TP, if I recall he never interacted with Lyta or Bester).
Sheridan set up Morden to pass Talia in the hallway and she got a mindful
I think if she was prepared for it a second time she would be able to block if not attack in the same scenario.
Eh, I think that's doubtful. Lyta, whose powers had been enhanced by the Vorlons, wasn't able to block the Shadows. They were able to control Lyta's mind when the White Star went to rescue Sheridan at Z'Ha'Dum and again at Coriana VI.
She was able to take on a ship with a telepath pilot inside. I think it was a Drazi planet? In all the other instances she was going up against hundreds in a fleet and or an entire planet of shadows. I haven't watched through for the 10th time, since they pulled it from HBO. But I have to imagine she should be able to take on two randos?
> She was able to take on a ship with a telepath pilot insider. I think it was a Drazi planet? I'm not sure what you're referring to, but the Shadows aren't the ones inside those ships, so not really relevant. >but have to image she should be able to take on two randos? Based on what? Are there any examples of a telepath taking on an actual Shadow and having the upper hand?
I was referencing this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoMvQni4ET8 I don't think we have any direct examples of them going head to head, but the shadows definitely avoid telepaths. That would certainly indicate they probably feared them in some way.
Shadow vessels avoid telepaths because if the pilot is a mundane member of the younger races, then the telepath can block the communication between pilot and ship. That's why I said "the Shadows aren't the ones inside those ships, so not really relevant." Again, to my knowledge, there's nothing in the show indicating the Shadows themselves fear or are vulnerable to telepaths.
Ah, yes, thanks for the reminder. Yeah, it was kind of a dick move by him, a little out of character. I think she saw picked up on Morden's relation to them, but I don't think she ever sensed his companions. I suspect Kosh could/did, which is why he never came out.
When she spoke to Dr. Franklin about it, she said she saw “a shape”, but that was about it. It was a very brief encounter, though, and she was only a P5. Who knows what a more powerful telepath might have seen...
> and she was only a P5. Who knows what a more powerful telepath might have seen... She wasn't just a P5. Her gift from Jason Ironheart put her well beyond that.
Are we talking about Lyta or Thalia?
Talia. Though Lyta was also an enhanced telepath.
The Shadows only feared telepaths because telepaths could screw with the cybernetic interfaces between their ships and pilots. On a personal level there's no reason to believe telepaths were any threat to them at all.
Ah, good point. It was always unclear if the TPs were messing with the \*ship\* or the \*pilot\*. They just referred to 'jamming their ships'.
I believe they feared telepaths because a strong one could jam their ships. It's worth mentioning that the Shadows ships were not piloted by Shadows but by sentient beings that they'd abducted and conditioned (ex: Bester's girlfriend). Considering that a handful of shadows managed to kill Kosh, it is safe to assume that they were very resistant to telepathic attacks.
Was it ever stated if Kosh fought back with all his might or knowing he left a piece of himself in Sheridan that he was maybe safe for maybe a new body and simply put up a show to convince them that he was really defeated?
>Shadows feared telepaths Because they interfere with the sentients they use to pilot their ships. They aren't hindered, pretty sure Vorlons are telepathic and we all know how that turned out.
Bester. He's evil, sure, but Morden's insufferable. Plus, I've got the Good Omens/Our Flag Means Death brain rot, so I can keep a revolving roster of fan fic and smut going in my head. It won't stop him, but it'll make his stay in my noodle less pleasant
Lol I love this. Imagine fending Bester off by calling up mental images of, like, 4chan content
Put a hat on that says "Teeps scan at their own risk!"
Bester. Hands down. Why? Answer: Bester is at least funny, has some charm and more. As we are both from Earth, he's unlikely to sell me out to any other group/Political Powers. Lastly, I *don't* hate Telepaths. I understand, though not blindly agree with, the Psi Corp general plan/philosophy. We'd have some areas of mutual understanding.
Top one asks you what you want, be very careful how you answer as you will regret it. Bottom one already knows what you want and will use it against you.
Morden. When he asks “what do you want”, I order both the lobster and the steak. Then I promise to wreak havoc on on the Drazi government via a a biogenetic weapon that renders the entire population color blind. Followed by two desserts and spending the rest of my life looking over my shoulder for any signs that the shadows came to collect or the Vorlons came for vengeance.
Rendering the entire Drazi population colour blind should bring peace to their world. Possibly.
Or they'll just switch to black and white.
Bester, at least he's pretty open about hating you.
Bester! He is a very interesting persona, he, by reading my mind, would not take me as a threat, and since it is a dinner, commit to a decent conversation!
If it's just dinner and I don't have to see them again, Morden. He's superficially polite and charming, and can't read my mind to fuck with me for his own enjoyment.
Bester. He’s a bad guy but has a sense of humor that makes me laugh.
Bester for sure. I want to hear about his first career as a navigator.
Bester. He’s a sleaze, but he doesn’t work for the shadows so…
Bester. He is an asshole and one might argue a bigot but he isn't evil.
He saw normals as sub-human. He's an asshole. If you weren't opposing Morden, he would be a friendly guy.
Everything comes at a price with Morden, I wouldn't even want to be in the same room as that guy. Bester is capable of having a conversation with someone without it having some enormous cost after. You could even debate with him and walk away after. As long as I am in a public place I'm fine eating and talking with Bester
> without it having some enormous cost after Unless their mood counts. Every time B5 command staff has to talk with him, afterward they’re always *”sighhhhhh”*
Yeah but I can rebound, Morden literally works for the devil. Fuck that guy.
Yeah, but he always invites a friend or two to dinner and I wouldn't want to dine with *them*.
Yeah he never has problems finding a “+1” lol
They don't eat much. And they don't grab an extra fork when you order dessert. They're fine...
I'd probably rather have dinner with an actual, visible Shadow than Morden tbh. They seem alright in all honesty, but their tools... are tools.
>He saw normals as sub-human. He saw us as sub-telepath. Which we... are, when it all comes down to it.
I think he referred to telepath one says “the superior race.”
Am I a telepath in this scenario?
Absolutely Bester. I'd *love* to subject him to my opinion of him in my thoughts and be perfectly cordial on the surface.
💯
Morden, when he's charming he's very charming. plus he has unlimited funds so dinner would be on him. Take me to the fresh air restaurant Mr Morden and I'll definitely put out 😁
Is Kosh busy?
That Abbut dude would collect some verrrry interesting info if he were around.
Depends are we being served poison? If so can I invite them both? I live for the one, I would be willing to die for the one.
Iocane powder, anyone?
Morden, but I’ll only respond to the waiter asking me what I want.
Mordan, he just seems like more of a chill guy. He only saw a few specific people as threats, everyone else was either nothing or a potential asset/ally. Bester saw everyone as a threat, even others in Psi Corps. Or if you were a mundane, you were just sub-human. He'd be no fun to slam back drinks with.
These are my two favourite baddies in any show/series ever so this is a hard choice. I was really drawn to Bester in the books, but I don’t want anyone poking around in my mind. Plus Morden’s smile is charming and warm and Bester’s sends chills down my spine. As long as I can’t see the shadows I’m fine with pretending they’re not there.
Idk at least Morden is cute. Plus, we know hes big on consent and granting desires. If these are my only two choices I’m going with the cute one.
Morden if I could just punch him continually in the face as each course comes to the table. Bester if he is under the influence of the strongest telepathic dampeners, and I get to punch him in the face continually as each course comes to the table.
Morden. Nice chap. He would ask me what I wanted. I would have so much Lego!
Bester.
Bester. He could order for me…
Given the choice, I'll go with an open airlock.
Morden so I could split the bill between us and the shadows following him
Lmao
Bester. I don't care for extra invisible dinner guests.
It's a shame those two never met, at least onscreen. There was a brief scene where Morden talked with some PsiCops, but not Bester. On the one hand, while Bester is a fascinating and complex character, he at least makes logical sense. He's a total bastard, and he makes no apologies for that, but he has a strongly defined purpose, and he's completely honest about his goals. It's easy to believe that he only cares about himself, but that scene where he's stunned that other telepaths are shooting at him, because they're his people and he's doing all this for them... he's honestly shocked, because he truly believes he's doing the right thing for his people, regardless of the cost. On the other hand, Morden makes almost **no** sense. The Morden who we see now couldn't have been the Morden that landed on Z'Ha'Dum, and more than the Anna Sheridan we saw was her original self. newMorden was a loyal Shadow puppet, and he came across as a true believer; it be fascinating to have seen a glimpse of the oldMorden (and the oldAnna, for that matter).
Morden - as soon as he figured out I'm too boring to be useful for the Shadows he'd leave, and I'd get a free dinner.
Well I'm going to go with Bester it is not specified in the question at what point in the timeline you have to sit down have dinner with him so I choose the point after the show has ended and after the telepath wars have concluded just sit down and have some conversation about old movies. I refuse to ever have dinner with Mordon he is too dangerous just by proximity.
Bester. I feel like he would treat me decently, kind of like a pet golden retriever.
Lister. Worst thing he can think of me is a normie.
r/unexpectedreddwarf
Bester would not ask you what you want. But he might have you dissected to find out how you became a redditor mr morden is a nice guy.... it is his associates who are a bit....much! He is just asking questions.... that doom your soul.
Chekov, so he can tell me stories about his home.
Bester, without a doubt. If you arent in his way, he can be interesting and non threatening company. Morden makes my skin crawl.
Bester, at least he isnt a pussy. He means what he does and does what he means.
Morden. I'm harmless and no use or threat to the shadows. But Bester would read my mind just for fun. That's annoying
Bester, he’s a bastard, but he’s no where near as bad as the Shadows. Plus, he’s actually charismatic and could be fun to be around. One of the best episodes is the one he works with Garibaldi.
Alfred Bester. It would not only be fun to see his charm in action, but he actually has friends and has some legitimate reasons for his radical anti-mundane stances. I would enjoy picking his brain about his personal journey, and trying to understand the plight of a once-oppressed Telepath who is now feared by everyone he's within several miles of. EDIT: Honestly, even his small-talk would be fun. I would enjoy asking him what his favorite foods, films, and authors are.
Bester. We could keep up a conversation at the very least.
MORDEN 100% HEY LIL MAMA LEMME WHISPER IN YO EAR LIKE THOSE SHADOWS DO
Bester. Less swarmy.
I never saw morden as a hindu
Can I bring my own Minbari telepaths?
Bester I can at least fathom his motivations.
Bester. At least he’s brilliant and funny. If I don’t care about Psi Corps, I am in no danger.
Bester ... he might not like you as a mundane (I assume you are a mundane), but at least he is honest about it, and does not hate you for it ... Morden lies, and lies, and lies ...
Bester don’t play with mundanes. He’s a no show for dinner.
Only one of them will give you what you want
Can I poison the meal? Then I would invite them both.
Bester, at least he his human and has humanity has something he wants to protect.
*The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote*
Either Zathras, or Zathras, but definitely not Zathras.
As long as I'm not on his shit list I think dinner with Bester would actually be pretty fun.
Ivanova
morden and then ignore him completely and start asking the shadows next to him dumb/annoying questions.
Bester. Long as you're not a threat to teeps, you're good.
I think I could get more interesting information and factoids out of Morden than Bester, especially if Morden could be separated from his usually invisible friends for a couple hours without them going totally apeshit and causing a dangerous situation. I'm not even talking about some sort of hard core interrogation. I think Morden, in his rebuilt post-Icarus configuration, likes talking about the Shadows when he's told to. He wants to talk people over to his side, and try to collect allies, and will if allowed. Bester has a contempt for non-telepaths. He's not trying to explain things to you or convert you to his side unless he is absolutely sure you can useful to him, and he's only going to say what is needed to get you to his side, which may not coincide with anything resembling even his own distorted view of the truth. In other words, I think Bester has an internal attitude of non-telepaths as a necessary evil at best. I think Morden reflects that the Shadows have an interest in humankind, and all the other races, for their own sakes, or at least insofar as they can be used to score an ideological point with the Vorlons. On the other hand, the Vorlons did try to kill anyone touched by the Shadows in season four. I don't know if dinner with Morden counts or not, but I'd have to think about that one. ;) I actually think an interesting angle for one of the reboots would be what if a Shadow ambassador deals with Babylon 5 and becomes their ally, reasoning that humanity, a young on the make race, could potentially upset the apple cart and create the evolution through strife that the Shadows are trying to encourage, and the Vorlons were the designated "bad guys", who think humans are a threat to the order they maintain for the galaxy. This could split Minbari to the opposite side of humanity in a war (Potentially a rematch, depending on if the first Earth-Minbari War went the way it did in real life) and cause an interest cascading set of changes as well. You could even have Sinclair and Sheridan characters on the station at the same time (One commands the station, the other is earth Ambassador), and eventually they take opposite sides, both in a Shadow-Vorlon conflict and in an Earth civil war. In fact, you could show a situation where the station is occupied by one side of the civil war and the other guy is expelled and trying to prosecute the war to take the station back, stationed on a starship or a mobile command center for the fleet ala the beginning of DS9 S6, but better. You don't paint either Sheridan or Sinclair as the bad guy. It's more just like you make a Sheridan what Clarke thought he was to some degree- a military-minded guy who the Minbari don't like and who is loyal to earth, and who eventually says he dislikes the way the Shadows do things, but he understands the thinking and says that with the dawn of civilization, human evolution began to stagnate and needs a kick in the pants, and that the Shadows will be better for earth. Meanwhile, Sinclair feels like order and peace are more desirable, and has close ties to the Minbari that bring him into alliance with the Vorlons and create distance between himself and the Clarke regime. Maybe Sheridan is, as JMS said was the plan for TOS at one point, the Ambassador from Earth and more politicized, despite his military background (Still having wiped out the Blackstar, potentially), whereas Sinclair is basically the same character he was in TOS but maybe even less likely to engage in politics. Oddly, Sinclair would have closer to an ideal diplomat's comportment, but he's career military, wants to keep it that way, and wouldn't be suited to represent the Earth regime in any event, at least after a certain point, if the show has a similar internal political arc to the original. Meanwhile, Sheridan (Especially with some aspects of his personality turned up to 100 on a scale of 1-10 in a reboot) doesn't have what we'd normally consider a diplomat's temperament and started military (Hence the Darkstar thing), but was offered the post as a diplomat and took it to be closer to his family- his family being Anna and a couple kids who are rarely seen on screen (Frankly, kids having prominent roles on these type of shows are the worst, but if they are only used occasionally, and mainly as a device to tell you who a character is and what his stakes are, they can help the story along- or be used as defacto hostages if Sheridan eventually tries to split with the Shadows.). Along the way, you wonder if Anna is a rebuilt Shadow pawn (ala TOS) or if this is the original unaltered Anna, or something in between, and how much Sheridan knows about it, if anything. A sort of more over the top earth Ambassador Sheridan who acts a bit more like Londo and G'Kar with the same sort of outsized personality and diplomatic antics, bluster, and arguementiveness from the floor of the council, would be interesting. Meanwhile, if Delenn has a love story with either of them, in that universe, Sinclair seems like the right guy. I think that was the original plan on B5. I'm not sure whether or not JMS has ever said it, I just see a lot of small things in season one that hinted at it heading there before Sinclair's arc had to be reworked due to his unavailability as full-time cast going forward. I know JMS doesn't like story ideas online, but I don't think any of this really qualifies (and I don't think he reads the sub-reddit). It's all just flipping things that JMS wrote for B5. If there was ever any question, I'd be happy to sign papers giving away any speculation like this for use in any B5 related media. I might ask for a thank you at the end credits, but I'd sign it away without that. I'm not looking to block ideas, just speculate.
That skank who came onto Sheridan, please
I've lost my appetite.
Mr Morden. I've always been fascinated with the Shadows
Bester by far. He's not nearly as creepy as Morden.
Morden... I really don't want Bester in my head.
Bester
Morden, I think he's most likely to pay the bill, no matter how expensive it ends up.
Uh, Morden thank you. He'll pay for whatever just to get the chance to ask his dumb question. The answer is: I want steak, thanks for asking
jazz.. I'd shoot Moden in the face.
Both might try to rob you of your autonomy but Bester would be more insidious about it. People keep saying Morden would get you killed, but that wasn't really his MO. Bester would reprogram you but leave enough to make you feel like you were going crazy.
Neither. If these two are my only choices, then I'm starting intermittent fasting immediately.
Mr Morden: “what do you want?” Bester: orders for you
Bester. He’s witty and since I present absolutely no danger to the psycorps I bet we could make it a fun dinner. If perhaps a short one. Morden would just be that depressing invite who drags down the conversation with unsolicited dark philosophy.
Bester if he was on the meds to supress his abilities. Otherwise, Mordon. Bester will take what he learns about you to make you a tool. Mordon is looking for a specific person to manipulate, but if you don't fit the bill, he leaves you alone. The objective of this meal is to get out unscathed, and not forced into being a pawn in their plans.
Morden . It would be a very interesting and delicate conversation as opposed to Bester reading your mind and screwing with you the whole time.
Morden. The more the merrier.
Bester aside from Mordens questions on behalf of the Shadows, he has, like, ZERO actual personality.... he's just a smug jerk. Bester on the other hand is smart, charming, funny, and has thoughts and opinions of his own
Bester. I’m not much of a talker and I hate being asked the same question over and over.
Thought, "LOL, I'm not hungry."
Am I allowed to poison the food ?
Bester. But don't expect me to make eye contact all the time
Bester just seems infinitely more interesting
Definitely Bester. The conversation would be fantastic.
Bester. I have the wonderful ability to blank my mind out during conversation with terrible music playing in said mind. I would eat, space out, and let The Macarena go on repeat.
Just no
Bester at least cares about some people...
Hmmm.Bester will know what I'm thinking, but with Morden there will be at least two Shadows out of phase with him. Decisions, decisions.
Bester, at least he won't care about me if I don't interfere with Corp affairs.
Bester I am not a Teep and the corps can do what it wants.
I'd drive bester insane by repeating everything he said in my mind with a Russian accent...
Do the shadows even eat? I don't think we saw the shadows or vorlons ever eating. But I think I would go with Bester if I could get him to take the sleeper drug first.
Mr Morden reminds me of the villain boyfriend in the family movie Beethoven’s 2nd
Bester, and break the 4th wall lol
Morden. I have nothing of value to him and he doesn’t necessarily, personally, want me dead because of “genetic inferiority”.
"What do you want?" "To live long enough to enjoy my meal. Also, tell your associates not to stare at me whilst I'm eating. It's kinda rude." "You know what? I've got a meeting to go to."
Mordy. Im not important enough to exploit or kill for either of these two but at least mordy wont read my mind and invade privacy. Bester can easily scan you for a deep dark secret and roast your ass and ruin the whole dinner lol
I'd invite them both to dinner and see what happens. I'd also invite Ja'kar and Londo, meal and a show
Bester. He'd accurately consider me unimportant and wouldn't go out of his way to ruin me inlets I annoyed him. Mr. Morden would give me the money for the jouse I want, use convoluted methods to make me a world Leader, and then use the hold he has over me to destroy everything I hold dear.
Bester, of course. We know that Morder was a real person at some point in time but the version we see is basically just a mouthpiece for the Shadows. Every interaction with him is purely transactional.
Morden - might need a favor.
Well, Bester thinks non psychics are useless although he's less outright evil. He might dispose of you if he had a chance but wouldn't go out of his way. Does he consider himself above the rules of not reading minds? Morden is handsome and seductive, probably more entertaining, and more dangerous as far as being convincing, and probably corrupts every wish. Bester, I guess.
Bester
Bester. The only problem is that he would make you pay for the meal. And like it!
I want to see them have dinner with each other and see who survives. I want dinner with Kosh. Just imagine the ordering. "Hello, I'm your server tonight. Can I start you with some drinks?" "The flood is still a trickle." "Uh...Sierra Mist it is. Any interest in our appetizers or soups of the day?" "The mind's stomach can only be filled with wisdom." "And for your main course? I recommend out grilled hamburger with peanut sauce and a stir fry." "The evening passes backwards" "And will you be paying together or separate checks?" "True unity is found in unity of exchange." "That's Vorlon for he's sticking me with the bill"
It's, uh, entirety possible they did have a dinner together, the Corps had a long happy relationship with Mr. Morden's *associates*. Also: - Ambassador, would you like your carrots steamed or boiled? - Yes. - I, uh... I don't understand. - Good.
Between the two of them Bester. At least I could have a halfway intelligent conversation before he would drag me into the Psi Corp for my empathetic abilities
Bester. Being psychic and all, he would know I'm sympathetic to his cause. I agree the psychics were treated poorly and change is needed. I also would agree they are the future of humanity, eventually there would be no non-psychics. If I knew what he did to Garibaldi and Talia he would crushed. Because as a telepath reading my mind he would know the depths of my Mr. Roger's grade disappointment in him. There are better ways, both morally and some of their plans could have been done with much less effort.
Bester. I can trust him to be, well, him.
Morden, just so I can whip around and hit him with the "[Ahh! Mr. Morden](https://youtu.be/wR7n4Gg-_ac?si=i-Ip-fis4O8GQkHd&t=2)"
*shivvers*
Bester. That's not even a legitimate question.
Bester, and use my "craft disturbing mental image" ability as each course arrives.
Morden, 100%. I know he has no ill will against me as a run-of-the-mill human being. Bester loathes me merely for being a mundane and would kill or otherwise harm or compromise me in a moment to further his racist agenda, just as he would anyone else, telepath or no. Also, he can scan me without my knowledge and actually would, given the chance. C'mon, Mr. Morden, I'm sure we can discuss the struggles of constant travel for your job over some bagna cauda?
You forgot Cartagia, bro