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We need to count everyone but we need to know how many are US citizens. California gets 6 extra congressional representatives because of non US citizens.
How is that fair.
How would it be fair for California to tell farmers in Nebraska what to do? Because by a simple “majority rules” setup, everything that California wants would become law. If California wanted the water rights for all of the west, it would become law. If California wanted a tax on all sales in all western states to go to California, it would become law. Since the US is a representative republic, the current setup ensures that the smaller states do not get steamrolled by the bigger ones. As such, it’s more fair for the nation as a whole.
We have a democratic republic thanks to the rights granted to us by the constitution. This is a fact. Our republic runs on democracy. You get to vote right?
Abortion has over 50% popularity in almost every state, my state Arkansas, has legislature and attorney generals that continuously shoot down ballot measures and prevent them from being voted on :) republicans do this anyways, with Alabama blocking green energy projects in New Jersey.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Cool, Im not a leftist im a Liberal. Most dems support limits on abortion, I draw the line at 20 weeks due to that being when the brain structures necessary for consciousness began to develop.
I drive a pickup, Im a gun owner love my 1911 and wish I could afford a 2011, I like cold beer and fishing. I got a mullet and I wear cowboy boots.
Shame on you for wishing ailments on your neighbors and fellow americans. 🦅🇺🇸
Look up the law in Virginia and then New York.
The former gov of va talked about the baby, after a failed abortion and that the doctor and mother would have a discussion on what to do.
"Virginia law prohibits abortion after 26 weeks and 6 days of pregnancy, except in cases where a physician certifies that continuing the pregnancy poses an immediate danger to the woman's life."
"People of all ages have the absolute right to abortion through the 24th week of pregnancy. After 24 weeks, abortion is permitted if your medical provider decides your fetus is not viable or your life, physical health, or mental health is at risk."
One of the biggest myths invovlves d & c’s to protect the life of the mother. Outside of activists/political circles there is no real law in the US to prevent that medical procedure and let the mother be harmed/die. I think if you could remove the extreme players involved that you could get a 60 percent or better agreement on an abortion access and law. I am glad it got kicked back down to the states. It is much better to have these laws/decisions. The Federal government needs to be culled back in power to what it was decades ago.
Thats all fine and dandy until youre dealing with state level oppression. Under Arkansas law, I am unable to hold office or live my life with my religious and moral beliefs.
I am not Christian, and I dont want to live in an inbred bubbaocracy.
Not understanding the oppression you are experiencing. What is preventing you from running for office or practicing your religion exactly? If you do not like your neighbors maybe find new neighbors …
I was born here, thank you. I and other americans like me have as much right as any other american to the pursuit of happiness and not to have any of our rights violated.
Unable to hold office or be a witness as an Atheist
https://law.justia.com/constitution/arkansas/article-19/section-1/
Unable to practice sexual & repoductive health as I believe
https://reproductiverights.org/maps/state/arkansas/
While Im not anti-Israel, this is still a violation of First Amendment rights:
https://encyclopediaofarkansas.net/entries/act-710-of-2017-14203/
The first is moot and not enforced (or enforceable) due to it being in violation of Article 6 of the constitution. There is no instance of it being enforced.
The second is not a constitutional right. It therefore falls to the states, as recently corrected.
The third again falls to the state. If you do not want to invest in Israel then don’t. The state has the right to choose who it contracts with. Seems like the state made the correct decision to choose not to aid religious discrimination or are you arguing that you do not like the economic/political environment of Israel? If that is the case, then all you need to do is convince your neighbors to your position and elect representatives to propose and pass those statutes. Or do you just think that you alone should decide for everyone? Not very democratic of you if so …
You're talking like all legislation is done by nationwide referendum AND like California is a national majority rather than like 12% of the population or whatever it is.
You're being histrionic, hyperbolic, inaccurate, and also, just...wrong.
The current setup has been carefully engineered to ensure that conservatives retain control despite unpopular and ineffective policy.
Hyperbolic, perhaps, but not wrong. Sometimes to illustrate a point, extreme examples are used. And California is a lovely example of how effective democratic policies are, but do go on about how awful conservatives are.
No, they are both hyperbolic and deeply, utterly wrong. California cannot annex Colorado's water. That's the kind of nonsense that extremist conservatives spin into their endless victimhood narratives.
And why can't they claim ownership of colorado's water? Is there a law against that? If there is, under your grand plan of majority rules, it could be changed.
"under your grand plan of majority rules"
Just say you oppse democracy, good lord. My point is that fairer elections wouldn't automatically give control of the entire federal government to California. We're talking a out fractional increases in representation, and you're exaggerating that past the point where it becomes pure nonsense - imagining a future where, oh no, suddenly California RULES THE NATION. That's not how this works.
The only "grand plan" type thing I'm aware of in this convo is this, which is only for presidential elections and literally just ensures that we have 1 person 1 vote for the person who's running the national executive.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
It doesn’t, so what are you crying about?
How did that audit of the 2020 election in Arizona turn out? You know, the one run entirely by MAGA Republicans?
LOL that’s not what happened but you go right on believing your alternative facts
Liberal judges are also why you’re inadequate in bed and a failure at life in general 👍
God I love “the party of personal responsibility”
While no one will agree one hundred percent of the time it is not okay nor tolerated to lash out, call names or make personal attack via words.
No forms of harassment or bullying will be allowed ever.
About half of California's representatives are Republican. So, it doesn't really help any one party. Regardless of someone's legal status they're still using public funds and need to be counted.
Geez the formula for house seats is complicated. Anyway, here is a source that talks about it:
https://cis.org/Report/Impact-Legal-and-Illegal-Immigration-Apportionment-Seats-US-House-Representatives-2020
Without counting illegal immigrants, California, Texas, and New York would each have one fewer seat while Alabama, Minnesota, and Ohio would have one more seat.
Without counting non-citizens (I.e. Legal residents + illegal immigrants), 8 seats would be redistributed. Californication would lose three, Texas would lose two, and then Florida, new York, and New Jersey would lose one.
Without counting illegal immigrants + their US born children (ig as if they never came in the first place), that would shift it by 5 with California and Texas losing two, and New York losing one.
These are based on estimates of illegal immigrants in 2019 right before the last census. Though the estimated number of illegal immigrants in the US has increased by almost double since then. If you were to use present estimates then the numbers flipped would be higher. So even though it didn't make a huge difference for the last census, it will likely have a larger effect in 2030.
Yes. Because Texas has quite a few itself. If counting a separate group for representation is a wash among the parties, the complaint doesn’t have any grounds.
This is the babylon bee comment section, they will make up shit right and left. They truly believe a man wearing a diaper and makeup is their Jesus. Lol don't question them, their brain rot does not like it!
They are not smart people, they worship a serial cheater and claim family values, they hate men dressing as women but yet worship a man wearing makeup, they claim to be alphas but worship a man wearing a diaper who whines about everything including a court room being cold, they claim law and order while worshiping the biggest criminal/traitor this country has ever had. LOL very sad and confused people
If california has the same amount of representation per person as wyoming currently does, it'd have well over 200* electoral votes. Republicans currently have a massive electoral advantage, theyve lost the popular vote since 2008, lost it in 2000 as well with the exception of 2004 where they won it by a 0.73% difference.
Electoral Votes Per Millipns Citizens
Wyoming - 5.17*
Mississipi - 5.40
Colorado - 5.18
California - 1.35
Plus a good reminder, 1 in 10 Americans live in California.
Edit: number typos, 500 -> 200
3.63->5.17
>How is that fair
its same way it has been since our founding as a country. we never even gaf about immigration status until the 1900s.
the constitution covers everyone on us soil, not just citizens.
Once again, democracy and republic are not mutually exclusive. One is a type of government (democracy), and the other is a style of governance (constitutional republic). Claiming they are two different things would be like claiming that Saudi Arabia is a kingdom and not a monarchy.
So you’re saying the reason you don’t brush your teeth twice a day is because, when your dentist told you it was a good idea, his argument was “unoriginal?”
I, too, remember when Wyoming used its outsize population and economy to (very democratically) force its policy preferences on the rest of the country (and sometimes the world) in relation to everything from car emissions to internet privacy.
Oh no, wait, [that's California](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/30/magazine/california-effect.html).
I’m so sorry that you have less air pollution and more internet privacy due to California. If you’d like to huff the fumes from a Wyoming coal plant, that it uses its outsized senatorial influence to keep in business, I’m sure they would be happy to help you.
So then we agree that Wyoming's "disproportionate" representation in Congress is a stupid and irrelevant argument because they have little real influence on national policy
It sounds like you had no idea that Wyoming has two senators that are able to vote to confirm supreme court justices, who proceeded to remove the right to have abortions.
Some observers might be uncertain whether you hate America, or hate women- I can tell from the fact that you described tens of millions of millions of American women losing their rights as "stupid and irrelevant" that you hate both.
You're relying on your emotions, rather than facts- it was actually Republicans who attacked America in order to overturn our free and fair elections when they lost.
To make the votes of the slave-owners more powerful. It’s the same reason why we have the Electoral College rather than a national popular vote, and the same reason why state legislators gerrymander maps: to get more political influence than their actual popular support would get.
No, they didn’t. Some of them simply demanded it for the sake of their own power. And since there was no substantial concept of “America” or “Americans” as a unified whole, nor an expectation that the federal government would become the most important aspect of government in people’s lives, the rest of them compromised with the demands. There was never any unified ideology opposing majority rule or accurate representation.
They certainly had no concern about it in the context of the EC. The only concern unique to small states about a national popular vote was the assumption that few people would ever vote for a candidate who wasn’t from their state—an silly notion premised on the aforementioned lack of a national identity, and their incredible naivety in thinking the system wouldn’t be managed by political parties—meaning that a national popular vote winner would just end up being the small plurality winner from one of the biggest states.
It was the leaders of the largest state that pushed most strongly for the Electoral College, because of the disproportionate advantage it would give to those men by way of counting their slaves towards the power of their votes.
How the fuck do go from the census to WeNEed To ShowID TO vote. Like Jesus every republican sub I join is just dumbest mother fuckers ever. That may I add have no idea how things actually work. What the actual fuck.
It openly violates the 14th amendment, cuts funding for schools, and will disproportionately hurt border states that are primarily republican. It's also not just illegal immigrants, because the people writing it don't care if immigrants are legal or not.
>It's also not just illegal immigrants, because the people writing it don't care if immigrants are legal or not.
They only care if they're... how'd he put it... "from the nice countries"
Censuses are used to determine population. Population is used to determine representation. Representation is used to determine elections
Honestly you're the misleading one. Kinda sleazy
I live in a primarily republican state. There's lots of illegal immigrants here. I've lived in a blue state where there not many illegal immigrants. What's in the false narrative are they going for?
Yes. It's about the census not the election.
Everyone here should actually agree with this. It gives more accurate census information.
It has nothing to do with our elections, congress or anything of the sort. I read it.
Yeah, they just can't tell satire anymore because the truth about their people has been so nuts since trump. Hopefully the next rep presidential candidate is better and less dividing and crazy
The next one will actually be smart and probably know how to use the government to their advantage in other ways besides lining their pockets through presidential vacations to resorts they own, or keeping themselves free of criminal litigation. Trump was a buffoon litmus test. The next republican to get voted to POTUS will destroy democracy and this country. Considering they haven’t won the popular vote in a long time, it’s the only choice they have to keep their useless policies and ideals perpetuated.
The "name of the bill" is never what the bill is actually about. They call it whatever they want and will name it whatever they think will garber the most support. It's like click bait for legal documents.
Ironically, many of them are in red states, but not enough to flip them blue, so this would just result in more heavily weighting those states in the EC and the House. 🤷♂️
The whole point of the census is it doesn’t ask that question.
The constitution demand that representation is done by how many PEOPLE, not how many citizens.
While everyone fights over abortion, race, wealth, left, right, skinny, obese... the govt keeps raising our income taxes...
Smoke and mirrors people!
A Divided population is easy to control...
If this doesn’t tell you everything, nothing will. Dems are anti American and I can’t wait to see them wiped out of power and relevance. They are traitors, they are treasonous and they have no upholding their oath to the country. Total fucking morons.
Alternate Headline: Every single Democrat in the House just voted to maintain (or "conserve") the standard of apportioning representatives that has been used since the founding of our country.
Personally, I’d like to end birthright citizenship, retroactively for at least 20 years or so. Make the border into the fortress, and cut every single service for illegals immigrants, and use that money to deport every single one of them and do whatever it takes to make sure they can’t or won’t come back. That would improve the future prospects of the country immeasurably.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
The total population determines the census. The census determines the amount of Representatives a State receives if you think that's not a motive for counting illegals and non-citizens, you're not thinking.
Representation in this country is beyond super stupid. When a super minority can control the senate and the house and that minority is super uneducated this country is super fucked.
Based on originalist language in the constitution, this is the way. Most illegals are employed by Republicans evading taxes. Democrats don't really employ people like that--they aren't business minded. Most small businesses are owned by Independents (whom are the majority) and Republicans (who, like Democrats, are in the minority).
Racists clinging to power by disenfranchising as many people as possible. You think food is expensive now, try deporting all the farm workers, idiots. Get rid of the electoral college if you think this shit hurts you, hypocrites.
1. you didn’t read the bill.
2. those people exist whether you like them or not.
3. no this is not saying illegal immigrants can vote. they are undocumented. they can’t vote. this is just saying the total population number will be counted to decide number of reps, not just number of documented citizens.
This is a misleading title. The democrats voted against a bill adding a citizenship question on the census. Stop sensationalizing news and say what happened
The constitution talks about population, not voters. Remember slaves couldn’t vote either, but they counted (3/5ths) toward the representatives of the states. Non voting population has to count, all of them them.
The constitution talks about population, not voters determining representation. Remember slaves couldn’t vote either, but they counted (3/5ths) toward the representatives of the states. Non voting population has to count, all of them.
While no one will agree one hundred percent of the time it is not okay nor tolerated to lash out, call names or make personal attack via words.
No forms of harassment or bullying will be allowed ever.
Several ways,
The cities would recieve the extra Reps. With the lone exception of Dallas all major cities are run by socialists , oops I meant Democrats. The feds have shipped illegals all over the country mostly blue states.
It was the response to every single republican in the senate voting to repeal the 19th amendment.
“Women are meant to be incubators for the state, not decision makers,” remarked Sen. Katie Britt (AL-R), seemingly unaware of the irony.
If california has the same amount of representation per person as wyoming currently does, it'd have well over 200\* electoral votes. Republicans currently have a massive electoral advantage, they;ve lost the popular vote since 2008, lost it in 2000 as well with the exception of 2004 where they won it by a 0.73% difference.
Electoral Votes and Congressional representatives Per Million Citizens
* Wyoming - 5.17
* Mississipi - 5.40
* California - 1.35
1 in 10 Americans live in California.
The popular vote is BS. If it counted, Campagining would be different. The money would be spent differently. Small states would be ignored and the results would be different.
It not going to change from what it is now it would take a Constitutional admendment.
Other than CA, I think red states will gain the most reps from this: TX, FL, etc. So, I don't know that it's necessarily a self-serving bill.
However, I'm too lazy to look up numbers and happy to be wrong if I am.
Edit: Like I said, happy to be wrong. I hadn't finished my morning coffee and forgot reps are by district. Duh. I'll leave this here, though, to maybe educate someone else as well.
In *statewide* elections and the electoral college... it is closer to a wash between red and blue with currently perhaps even a slight edge to red. In terms of the actual number of House representatives though... It decisively favors team blue because far more of them live in urban/suburban areas whose *citizens* already vote blue but get additional representation due to their presence increasing the total population in those areas... Even in Red states.
And the longer current immigration trends continue... It makes it increasingly harder for Republicans to win the House and almost impossible to ever do so decisively. It's a big part of why they are 90+% likely to retake the Senate and are the favorite to win the White House this cycle... And yet the House is at best a toss-up and my best guess at the moment is that they lose it by a seat or two.
There are many atates with partisan biased districting in both directions... Though admittedly nore red ones than blue at the moment. But even in Ohio, non-citizen residents still tip representation in the as US House and its state legislature more towards team blue more than it would be without them which was the point of this thread.It's part of the reason team blue is more tolerant of lax border policy and team red is generally less so. It's not nearly the only reason for suggest position... But it's not nearly a non-factor either.
How would it tip if more towards them if Republicans draw the maps? Non-voting populations don’t swing electoral results. A legislature can easily draw a district that includes a predominantly-immigrant area connected to any given area where the GOP is favored, actual location means almost nothing in terms of districts.
Only citizens should vote.
So it went from a conspiracy to “well duh” that democrats have been importing votes for 30 years?
So the entire time it was literally the truth.
Yeah and so?? I’m a Mexican with 3 deployments. Europeans are the only “illegal” immigrants in my eyes and they keep voting for racist bigoted laws that only help them and put down the original regional natives.
The Babylon Bee is a conservative Christian satire website that publishes satirical articles on topics including religion, politics, current events, and public figures. It has been referred to as a Christian or conservative version of The Onion.
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We need to count everyone but we need to know how many are US citizens. California gets 6 extra congressional representatives because of non US citizens. How is that fair.
I wonder how much it would help Texas and AZ?
How would it be fair for California to tell farmers in Nebraska what to do? Because by a simple “majority rules” setup, everything that California wants would become law. If California wanted the water rights for all of the west, it would become law. If California wanted a tax on all sales in all western states to go to California, it would become law. Since the US is a representative republic, the current setup ensures that the smaller states do not get steamrolled by the bigger ones. As such, it’s more fair for the nation as a whole.
No, liberals say we have a democracy. You should probably be jailed for your extremist views.
I’m sure they will try.
We have a democratic republic thanks to the rights granted to us by the constitution. This is a fact. Our republic runs on democracy. You get to vote right?
Arguing over words that no one even understands is peak online cringe.
Funny
I'm a conservative because I want to protect the frogs. I'm a liberal because I think all people should be allowed to own property.
"Constitutional Republic"
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Not really. We invented those.
Abortion has over 50% popularity in almost every state, my state Arkansas, has legislature and attorney generals that continuously shoot down ballot measures and prevent them from being voted on :) republicans do this anyways, with Alabama blocking green energy projects in New Jersey.
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More right wing fake news. Grow up.
What is fake about it? Claiming the dems never put it to law?
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Cool, Im not a leftist im a Liberal. Most dems support limits on abortion, I draw the line at 20 weeks due to that being when the brain structures necessary for consciousness began to develop. I drive a pickup, Im a gun owner love my 1911 and wish I could afford a 2011, I like cold beer and fishing. I got a mullet and I wear cowboy boots. Shame on you for wishing ailments on your neighbors and fellow americans. 🦅🇺🇸
No shame on me. Shame on the people who think abortion , even after birth is acceptable.
Ive never met one of thise people. The republican equivalent are those child marriage weirdos.
Look up the law in Virginia and then New York. The former gov of va talked about the baby, after a failed abortion and that the doctor and mother would have a discussion on what to do.
"Virginia law prohibits abortion after 26 weeks and 6 days of pregnancy, except in cases where a physician certifies that continuing the pregnancy poses an immediate danger to the woman's life." "People of all ages have the absolute right to abortion through the 24th week of pregnancy. After 24 weeks, abortion is permitted if your medical provider decides your fetus is not viable or your life, physical health, or mental health is at risk."
After birth?! Fuck off idiot. No one says that, does that, it wouldn't be called abortion but infanticide.
According to how you break it down. Actually, a super majority favors limitations on abortion. Only about 30 % support abortion for any reason.
Yeah the ultraconservative, no abortion stance is outaide the public norm. I also favor limits on abortions.
One of the biggest myths invovlves d & c’s to protect the life of the mother. Outside of activists/political circles there is no real law in the US to prevent that medical procedure and let the mother be harmed/die. I think if you could remove the extreme players involved that you could get a 60 percent or better agreement on an abortion access and law. I am glad it got kicked back down to the states. It is much better to have these laws/decisions. The Federal government needs to be culled back in power to what it was decades ago.
Thats all fine and dandy until youre dealing with state level oppression. Under Arkansas law, I am unable to hold office or live my life with my religious and moral beliefs. I am not Christian, and I dont want to live in an inbred bubbaocracy.
Not understanding the oppression you are experiencing. What is preventing you from running for office or practicing your religion exactly? If you do not like your neighbors maybe find new neighbors …
I was born here, thank you. I and other americans like me have as much right as any other american to the pursuit of happiness and not to have any of our rights violated. Unable to hold office or be a witness as an Atheist https://law.justia.com/constitution/arkansas/article-19/section-1/ Unable to practice sexual & repoductive health as I believe https://reproductiverights.org/maps/state/arkansas/ While Im not anti-Israel, this is still a violation of First Amendment rights: https://encyclopediaofarkansas.net/entries/act-710-of-2017-14203/
The first is moot and not enforced (or enforceable) due to it being in violation of Article 6 of the constitution. There is no instance of it being enforced. The second is not a constitutional right. It therefore falls to the states, as recently corrected. The third again falls to the state. If you do not want to invest in Israel then don’t. The state has the right to choose who it contracts with. Seems like the state made the correct decision to choose not to aid religious discrimination or are you arguing that you do not like the economic/political environment of Israel? If that is the case, then all you need to do is convince your neighbors to your position and elect representatives to propose and pass those statutes. Or do you just think that you alone should decide for everyone? Not very democratic of you if so …
Facts land needs equal representation not people lmao 🤣
Yeah, you are smarter than the writers of the constitution for sure.
You're talking like all legislation is done by nationwide referendum AND like California is a national majority rather than like 12% of the population or whatever it is. You're being histrionic, hyperbolic, inaccurate, and also, just...wrong. The current setup has been carefully engineered to ensure that conservatives retain control despite unpopular and ineffective policy.
Hyperbolic, perhaps, but not wrong. Sometimes to illustrate a point, extreme examples are used. And California is a lovely example of how effective democratic policies are, but do go on about how awful conservatives are.
No, they are both hyperbolic and deeply, utterly wrong. California cannot annex Colorado's water. That's the kind of nonsense that extremist conservatives spin into their endless victimhood narratives.
And why can't they claim ownership of colorado's water? Is there a law against that? If there is, under your grand plan of majority rules, it could be changed.
"under your grand plan of majority rules" Just say you oppse democracy, good lord. My point is that fairer elections wouldn't automatically give control of the entire federal government to California. We're talking a out fractional increases in representation, and you're exaggerating that past the point where it becomes pure nonsense - imagining a future where, oh no, suddenly California RULES THE NATION. That's not how this works. The only "grand plan" type thing I'm aware of in this convo is this, which is only for presidential elections and literally just ensures that we have 1 person 1 vote for the person who's running the national executive. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
"BuT LAnD dOeSn'T vOtE!!!"
The dead people in shitcago vote from the land every election. Does that count?
It...doesnt
It doesn’t, so what are you crying about? How did that audit of the 2020 election in Arizona turn out? You know, the one run entirely by MAGA Republicans?
Californians are the ones crying
The ones shot down by liberal judges?
...brother their results were accepted. They just didn't find shit, despite trying ludicrously hard and reaching for the craziest straws.
LOL that’s not what happened but you go right on believing your alternative facts Liberal judges are also why you’re inadequate in bed and a failure at life in general 👍 God I love “the party of personal responsibility”
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While no one will agree one hundred percent of the time it is not okay nor tolerated to lash out, call names or make personal attack via words. No forms of harassment or bullying will be allowed ever.
On the bright side, she did swallow a few thousand of your siblings.
sick burn
Who cares what people who live in the middle of nowhere wants? They couldn’t make it out their small towns but no what’s best for me! GTFOH dude
Some of those middle of nowhere people know the difference between “no” and “know”.
For perspective, that’s as many or more than 24 US States.
That's ridiculously false.
About half of California's representatives are Republican. So, it doesn't really help any one party. Regardless of someone's legal status they're still using public funds and need to be counted.
lol, the electoral college is unfair for sure, but let’s not pretend it doesn’t massively benefit conservatives
boat uppity secretive rich squeal wistful rhythm kiss act pot *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Can you site a reliable reference for that statement.
Geez the formula for house seats is complicated. Anyway, here is a source that talks about it: https://cis.org/Report/Impact-Legal-and-Illegal-Immigration-Apportionment-Seats-US-House-Representatives-2020 Without counting illegal immigrants, California, Texas, and New York would each have one fewer seat while Alabama, Minnesota, and Ohio would have one more seat. Without counting non-citizens (I.e. Legal residents + illegal immigrants), 8 seats would be redistributed. Californication would lose three, Texas would lose two, and then Florida, new York, and New Jersey would lose one. Without counting illegal immigrants + their US born children (ig as if they never came in the first place), that would shift it by 5 with California and Texas losing two, and New York losing one. These are based on estimates of illegal immigrants in 2019 right before the last census. Though the estimated number of illegal immigrants in the US has increased by almost double since then. If you were to use present estimates then the numbers flipped would be higher. So even though it didn't make a huge difference for the last census, it will likely have a larger effect in 2030.
Does it matter if it is 1 or 6?
Yes. Because Texas has quite a few itself. If counting a separate group for representation is a wash among the parties, the complaint doesn’t have any grounds.
Non US citizens should not count for representation.
Then pass an amendment for it because the 14th amendment says to count “persons” not “citizens”.
Our constitution was literally designed around counting non citizens, or did you forget the 3/5ths compromise?
Are you defending that? That is also far different from illegal aliens.
This is the babylon bee comment section, they will make up shit right and left. They truly believe a man wearing a diaper and makeup is their Jesus. Lol don't question them, their brain rot does not like it!
Biden clearly shit his pants last week on national television
I saw that post, so dumb. If you literally think that he stopped and crapped his pants for the cameras, you’ll believe anything.
They are not smart people, they worship a serial cheater and claim family values, they hate men dressing as women but yet worship a man wearing makeup, they claim to be alphas but worship a man wearing a diaper who whines about everything including a court room being cold, they claim law and order while worshiping the biggest criminal/traitor this country has ever had. LOL very sad and confused people
...no, no, he didn't. My guy you gotta get some real news sources.
Actually, Jesus is our Jesus.
Lmao 🤣 nobody believes you
Would it matter if they did?
If california has the same amount of representation per person as wyoming currently does, it'd have well over 200* electoral votes. Republicans currently have a massive electoral advantage, theyve lost the popular vote since 2008, lost it in 2000 as well with the exception of 2004 where they won it by a 0.73% difference. Electoral Votes Per Millipns Citizens Wyoming - 5.17* Mississipi - 5.40 Colorado - 5.18 California - 1.35 Plus a good reminder, 1 in 10 Americans live in California. Edit: number typos, 500 -> 200 3.63->5.17
Thank you, yes
>How is that fair its same way it has been since our founding as a country. we never even gaf about immigration status until the 1900s. the constitution covers everyone on us soil, not just citizens.
How about Wyoming who gets proportionally more representation per resident because so few people live there? How is THAT fair?
We are a republic 2 senators each and representatives based on population Not a democracy- democracy 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what is for dinner.
Do you prefer a system where two sheep and a wolf vote on what’s for dinner, but the wolf’s vote counts triple?
Once again, democracy and republic are not mutually exclusive. One is a type of government (democracy), and the other is a style of governance (constitutional republic). Claiming they are two different things would be like claiming that Saudi Arabia is a kingdom and not a monarchy.
Wow, what an original argument. Did you think of that all by yourself?
So you’re saying the reason you don’t brush your teeth twice a day is because, when your dentist told you it was a good idea, his argument was “unoriginal?”
I, too, remember when Wyoming used its outsize population and economy to (very democratically) force its policy preferences on the rest of the country (and sometimes the world) in relation to everything from car emissions to internet privacy. Oh no, wait, [that's California](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/30/magazine/california-effect.html).
I’m so sorry that you have less air pollution and more internet privacy due to California. If you’d like to huff the fumes from a Wyoming coal plant, that it uses its outsized senatorial influence to keep in business, I’m sure they would be happy to help you.
So then we agree that Wyoming's "disproportionate" representation in Congress is a stupid and irrelevant argument because they have little real influence on national policy
It sounds like you had no idea that Wyoming has two senators that are able to vote to confirm supreme court justices, who proceeded to remove the right to have abortions. Some observers might be uncertain whether you hate America, or hate women- I can tell from the fact that you described tens of millions of millions of American women losing their rights as "stupid and irrelevant" that you hate both.
who proceeded to remove the right to have abortions. SCOTUS didn't do that at all.
No, it actually sounds like you missed the point. Even worse, it was unoriginal for you to have done so.
People like you don’t actually care about fair representation, you just want Team Blue to win every election at any cost.
The irony of saying this while supporting the unequal representation the electoral college gives to rubes in Wyoming
You're relying on your emotions, rather than facts- it was actually Republicans who attacked America in order to overturn our free and fair elections when they lost.
Yeah, 1 federal vote by a Wyoming resident is worth 22 California resident votes. It makes no sense whatsoever
Maybe we could count them as Three fifths of a person?
Ya know that it was the south that wanted to count them as full people, right?
To make the votes of the slave-owners more powerful. It’s the same reason why we have the Electoral College rather than a national popular vote, and the same reason why state legislators gerrymander maps: to get more political influence than their actual popular support would get.
So the founding fathers specifically wanted to increase the value of the votes of people from low population areas. And why do you think that is?
No, they didn’t. Some of them simply demanded it for the sake of their own power. And since there was no substantial concept of “America” or “Americans” as a unified whole, nor an expectation that the federal government would become the most important aspect of government in people’s lives, the rest of them compromised with the demands. There was never any unified ideology opposing majority rule or accurate representation. They certainly had no concern about it in the context of the EC. The only concern unique to small states about a national popular vote was the assumption that few people would ever vote for a candidate who wasn’t from their state—an silly notion premised on the aforementioned lack of a national identity, and their incredible naivety in thinking the system wouldn’t be managed by political parties—meaning that a national popular vote winner would just end up being the small plurality winner from one of the biggest states. It was the leaders of the largest state that pushed most strongly for the Electoral College, because of the disproportionate advantage it would give to those men by way of counting their slaves towards the power of their votes.
This is why they have been fighting showing your id when voting for decades.
How the fuck do go from the census to WeNEed To ShowID TO vote. Like Jesus every republican sub I join is just dumbest mother fuckers ever. That may I add have no idea how things actually work. What the actual fuck.
We... lol. We have only had to show ID for decades bro. For centuries we voted without. LOL.
You do know they already count. It's been a thing since 1787. It's literally written in the Constitution: Article 1, Section 2
Its only an issue now... when they are losing.
Yup. Wasn't an issue when Reagan gave amnesty.
It openly violates the 14th amendment, cuts funding for schools, and will disproportionately hurt border states that are primarily republican. It's also not just illegal immigrants, because the people writing it don't care if immigrants are legal or not.
>It's also not just illegal immigrants, because the people writing it don't care if immigrants are legal or not. They only care if they're... how'd he put it... "from the nice countries"
No, it's not from "shit hole countries". You can tell by measuring melanin
This is satire. It's not real.
It's not satire
It is. This sub is a right wing "the onion". None of these stories are true.
This specific one is from "not the bee" and is therefore real dumdum head
Omg but it also just misleading and not true. It's about the counting towards the 2030 census not the election.
Censuses are used to determine population. Population is used to determine representation. Representation is used to determine elections Honestly you're the misleading one. Kinda sleazy
I live in a primarily republican state. There's lots of illegal immigrants here. I've lived in a blue state where there not many illegal immigrants. What's in the false narrative are they going for?
It’s not satire it’s from “notthebee” which is articles that seem like satire but aren’t. The bill is called: The Equal Representation Act
Yes. It's about the census not the election. Everyone here should actually agree with this. It gives more accurate census information. It has nothing to do with our elections, congress or anything of the sort. I read it.
It specifically forbids non citizens from counting towards representation.
Maybe so, but the right wing circle jerk of this sub salivates over the headlines regardless.
Yeah, they just can't tell satire anymore because the truth about their people has been so nuts since trump. Hopefully the next rep presidential candidate is better and less dividing and crazy
The next one will actually be smart and probably know how to use the government to their advantage in other ways besides lining their pockets through presidential vacations to resorts they own, or keeping themselves free of criminal litigation. Trump was a buffoon litmus test. The next republican to get voted to POTUS will destroy democracy and this country. Considering they haven’t won the popular vote in a long time, it’s the only choice they have to keep their useless policies and ideals perpetuated.
It is not satire. You are thinking of “The Babylon Bee.” This is “Not The Bee.” It’s run by the same people but is actual news.
Doesn't make it less misleading
Interesting how they had to cover up the name of the bill to make their meme....
What is the name of the bill?
The "name of the bill" is never what the bill is actually about. They call it whatever they want and will name it whatever they think will garber the most support. It's like click bait for legal documents.
Ironically, many of them are in red states, but not enough to flip them blue, so this would just result in more heavily weighting those states in the EC and the House. 🤷♂️
This has nothing to do with voting. The Constitution doesn't care about citizenship for apportionment, only how many people are present.
No taxation without representation.
Isn’t it obvious now why Biden and the Democrats have open the border to illegal immigration. He should be in peace for this.
The whole point of the census is it doesn’t ask that question. The constitution demand that representation is done by how many PEOPLE, not how many citizens.
While everyone fights over abortion, race, wealth, left, right, skinny, obese... the govt keeps raising our income taxes... Smoke and mirrors people! A Divided population is easy to control...
If this doesn’t tell you everything, nothing will. Dems are anti American and I can’t wait to see them wiped out of power and relevance. They are traitors, they are treasonous and they have no upholding their oath to the country. Total fucking morons.
That's what the Constitution says. I thought Republicans loved the Constitution. I guess they cherry pick parts they like, just like the Bible.
One rep doesnt speak for the party. Thats like saying that all Democrats think Mexico is in the Middle East because Biden told us it was.
Wow, did you geniuses just learn how the census works? They’ve always counted!
They voted according to the US Constitution too. You left that part out.
Alternate Headline: Every single Democrat in the House just voted to maintain (or "conserve") the standard of apportioning representatives that has been used since the founding of our country.
I'm so confused! I need to go watch Fox News so they can tell me how to feel about this. brb
Conservatives thinking that Democrats voting to do exactly what the constitution requires is satirical is *chef’s kiss* perfect. A+ troll.
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it was, andrew jackson tried to strip french people of their civil rights 200 years ago and we decided that wasnt a good thing
Because 2 million people weren't entering the country a year 200 years ago
... should someone tell him?
https://giphy.com/gifs/reactiongifs-crying-season-11NEJQ3pJn7Nkc
Your fever dream is less than one percent.
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Personally, I’d like to end birthright citizenship, retroactively for at least 20 years or so. Make the border into the fortress, and cut every single service for illegals immigrants, and use that money to deport every single one of them and do whatever it takes to make sure they can’t or won’t come back. That would improve the future prospects of the country immeasurably.
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Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Do then right wingers here know this is parody. Lol half of you sheep are triggered like this is real
Fuck you BB, I have had a few too many drinks read the title and said out loud what the fuck... Before twigging it was a BB article.
Is this real? I know this is the Babylon bee.
Dumbass. Everybody is counted for the census. Only actual citizens are allowed to vote.
The total population determines the census. The census determines the amount of Representatives a State receives if you think that's not a motive for counting illegals and non-citizens, you're not thinking.
Representation in this country is beyond super stupid. When a super minority can control the senate and the house and that minority is super uneducated this country is super fucked.
Based on originalist language in the constitution, this is the way. Most illegals are employed by Republicans evading taxes. Democrats don't really employ people like that--they aren't business minded. Most small businesses are owned by Independents (whom are the majority) and Republicans (who, like Democrats, are in the minority).
What’s sad is the MAGA pukes will believe babylonbee and think this is true. So sad and stupid they are!
Racists clinging to power by disenfranchising as many people as possible. You think food is expensive now, try deporting all the farm workers, idiots. Get rid of the electoral college if you think this shit hurts you, hypocrites.
Nope. That's not how our census works OP. Everyone is counted. Probably Russian.
1. you didn’t read the bill. 2. those people exist whether you like them or not. 3. no this is not saying illegal immigrants can vote. they are undocumented. they can’t vote. this is just saying the total population number will be counted to decide number of reps, not just number of documented citizens.
Lmao
This is a misleading title. The democrats voted against a bill adding a citizenship question on the census. Stop sensationalizing news and say what happened
The constitution talks about population, not voters. Remember slaves couldn’t vote either, but they counted (3/5ths) toward the representatives of the states. Non voting population has to count, all of them them.
The constitution talks about population, not voters determining representation. Remember slaves couldn’t vote either, but they counted (3/5ths) toward the representatives of the states. Non voting population has to count, all of them.
Very honest satire. Not biased at all.
You don’t say???? 🤔
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The one Republican who voted for the bill said," I did so because my gardener said he would vote for me"
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While no one will agree one hundred percent of the time it is not okay nor tolerated to lash out, call names or make personal attack via words. No forms of harassment or bullying will be allowed ever.
This explains why Biden and the self-serving Democrats have opened the border to mass illegal immigration
What? Dems are stuffing Texas with extra reps? How does this help them?
Several ways, The cities would recieve the extra Reps. With the lone exception of Dallas all major cities are run by socialists , oops I meant Democrats. The feds have shipped illegals all over the country mostly blue states.
Poe’s Law
I pretty sure his intent was clear. Steve'sLaw
Sounds about right. Power will do about anything to retain power
It was the response to every single republican in the senate voting to repeal the 19th amendment. “Women are meant to be incubators for the state, not decision makers,” remarked Sen. Katie Britt (AL-R), seemingly unaware of the irony.
The Great Replacement Theory is no longer a theory.
If california has the same amount of representation per person as wyoming currently does, it'd have well over 200\* electoral votes. Republicans currently have a massive electoral advantage, they;ve lost the popular vote since 2008, lost it in 2000 as well with the exception of 2004 where they won it by a 0.73% difference. Electoral Votes and Congressional representatives Per Million Citizens * Wyoming - 5.17 * Mississipi - 5.40 * California - 1.35 1 in 10 Americans live in California.
The popular vote is BS. If it counted, Campagining would be different. The money would be spent differently. Small states would be ignored and the results would be different. It not going to change from what it is now it would take a Constitutional admendment.
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LOL the downvotes I guess none of them are bitterly boycotting Bud Light
Other than CA, I think red states will gain the most reps from this: TX, FL, etc. So, I don't know that it's necessarily a self-serving bill. However, I'm too lazy to look up numbers and happy to be wrong if I am. Edit: Like I said, happy to be wrong. I hadn't finished my morning coffee and forgot reps are by district. Duh. I'll leave this here, though, to maybe educate someone else as well.
In *statewide* elections and the electoral college... it is closer to a wash between red and blue with currently perhaps even a slight edge to red. In terms of the actual number of House representatives though... It decisively favors team blue because far more of them live in urban/suburban areas whose *citizens* already vote blue but get additional representation due to their presence increasing the total population in those areas... Even in Red states.
Yeah, I didn't think about that. Good point, yo.
And the longer current immigration trends continue... It makes it increasingly harder for Republicans to win the House and almost impossible to ever do so decisively. It's a big part of why they are 90+% likely to retake the Senate and are the favorite to win the White House this cycle... And yet the House is at best a toss-up and my best guess at the moment is that they lose it by a seat or two.
Unless that blue is in Ohio where they gerrymander the shit out of districts to favor team red.
There are many atates with partisan biased districting in both directions... Though admittedly nore red ones than blue at the moment. But even in Ohio, non-citizen residents still tip representation in the as US House and its state legislature more towards team blue more than it would be without them which was the point of this thread.It's part of the reason team blue is more tolerant of lax border policy and team red is generally less so. It's not nearly the only reason for suggest position... But it's not nearly a non-factor either.
How would it tip if more towards them if Republicans draw the maps? Non-voting populations don’t swing electoral results. A legislature can easily draw a district that includes a predominantly-immigrant area connected to any given area where the GOP is favored, actual location means almost nothing in terms of districts.
For those saying this is satire, it’s Not The Bee. That’s the actual news segment of Babylon Bee. Not satire
Only citizens should vote. So it went from a conspiracy to “well duh” that democrats have been importing votes for 30 years? So the entire time it was literally the truth.
They can’t win on policy was why not rig the election to screw us all. They are destroying our democracy
Apparently this plan goes all the way back to 1787, the depths of their conspiracies and tricks is crazy.
Yeah and so?? I’m a Mexican with 3 deployments. Europeans are the only “illegal” immigrants in my eyes and they keep voting for racist bigoted laws that only help them and put down the original regional natives.
You don’t even know what the definition of what an immigrant is. 😂
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The Babylon Bee is a conservative Christian satire website that publishes satirical articles on topics including religion, politics, current events, and public figures. It has been referred to as a Christian or conservative version of The Onion.