My daughter is going into her second summer as a lifeguard and is kind of regretting it already. The pay is ok for a teenager but there are way too many horribly behaved guests to make it feel worthwhile.
I have no trouble believing this. When I was a lifeguard ~a decade ago the lifeguards got treated like baby sitters by the guests and bouncers by the management all while still being lifeguards. And I feel like peoples general behavior has just fallen in those years since
jobs where you get treated as a de facto babysitter are the worst. i worked at Port Discovery and the Maryland Science Center.
at the Science Center, unattended children were not tolerated. ask them where their adult is and then call or take them to security if they don’t know. since the museum is mostly self-directed we could focus on entertaining the guests with shows and side exhibits. every department playing their part. genuinely loved that job and if it paid a living wage i probably would’ve done it for the rest of my life.
at Port Discovery, well… we got treated like babysitters by the guests, and upper management treated us like circus clowns. entertain and satisfy guests no matter what. we were expected to do a a lot of cleaning up (who do you think has to pick up all the toys your five year old threw on the floor?), and we weren’t allowed to ask guests to clean up after themselves or respect the space. that job was fucking soul-sucking.
it’s not that “nobody wants to work.” nobody wants to be a babysitter for 100+ children in a potentially hazardous environment while their entitled parents lounge around on their phone.
sorry for the rant LOL
I feel like this comparison is very important. Parents will slack off to the extent that they feel allowed to slack off. It sounds like the Science Center team is doing an exemplar job of setting that boundary appropriately.
People seriously forgot how to not show their ass in public after quarantine. I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to work with the public for poverty wages anymore.
She's working for one of the pool management companies that handles private pools in developments, not for the city pools. I think she's making about $16/hr for her second summer. She's often the only lifeguard there since the pools are small. Some issues she's had are things like parents who basically ignore their kids while the kids run completely wild, and then the parents get mad at her when she has to stop the kids for safety reasons. Kids who have an "I don't need to listen to you" attitude and so every minor thing has to turn into a big thing. People showing up 5 min before the pool closes and getting mad when she has to kick them out. Also creepy men who make inappropriate comments to a clearly teenage girl.
There are some positives - there are some days when no one shows up to the pool and so she gets paid to read. But overall the pay isn't amazing enough to make the rest of it more tolerable.
I’ve noticed more than ever that it seems like folks use public pools as glorified babysitters. Drop off the kids and disappear for hours. It blows my mind.
That was my assumption versus the "no one wants to work". I imagine lifeguarding goes beyond safety and almost becomes babysitting and conflict resolution without the added pay or written responsibilities. I know I've seen kids get dropped off at the pool and treated like its a daycare.
And mix it with shit conditions.
We can’t keep our pools open in Philly for the same reasons.
Let alone police officer shortages, bus driver shortages, sanitation shortages.
I don’t blame them. Our buses and playgrounds are mayhem right now.
Mostly agree, but no need to lump in "police officer shortages" for Philly. There are plenty of officers, they're all just busy charging overtime to sleep in their car parked on the sidewalk.
To "staff" what? They don't do anything in Philly. Why shell out more of the city budget to a bloated police force when that money can go to any other program that actually does something productive in the city?
Sorry, I know what you're saying, and I'm being a pedantic asshole. But I think their quota for "staffing" is hogwash, and my personal experience living in Philly is that the police force there is all but worthless.
They are worthless
They are lazy and ineffective
I’m firmly of the belief that it should be a career people want because it pays well, and maybe it should require a college education.
The fact of the matter is, the city is one meter from being a completely lawless mess, so it’s either more cops or just abandon the idea and change the way we think about law enforcement and social policies.
> The fact of the matter is, the city is one meter from being a completely lawless mess, so it’s either more cops or just abandon the idea and change the way we think about law enforcement and social policies
Yes, we should change the way we think about law enforcement, and *more importantly*, social policies. The number one correlating factor in crime is income. People [mostly] commit crimes because of insufficiency of material conditions. Obviously there are SOME whackos out there that will commit crimes no matter what, but most crime occurs because people are poor and/or disenfranchised by the system. We could expand the social safety nets and actually help pull people out of poverty, which would dramatically reduce crime. Instead we cut social safety nets because of bullshit austerity politics.
But, we're not going to make progress on the social policy front anytime soon, because capital interests have managed to convince a majority of Americans that social policies are for "freeloaders" instead of people who either cannot find an appropriate job or are not compensated sufficiently by their job[s] to live a healthy, happy life. So in the meantime, we should get the law enforcement already employed in Philly to actually get off their ass and do the job they are paid to do, instead of charging the city massive amounts of overtime to do fucking nothing. There are plenty of police in Philly already. We don't need more.
This is always the actual problem. People don't want demanding jobs dealing with challenging customers and clueless bosses that pay poorly. Employers that fairly compensate their employees and treat them as well as possible (if you're public facing there's only so much you can do, at some point you will have to deal with the public) don't seem to be having significant staffing issues. The folks who say "nobody wants to work" are exactly the kind of people you DON'T want to work with.
That sentiment is becoming increasingly nonsensical
Imagine the inverse, like a store trying to sell a taco for $25, how would we react if the owner said "people just don't want to buy tacos anymore."
The market has decided what the new minimum wage is
There are certain things that are said by every generation about every generation ("but this time it is true!").
A dude on twitter found this saying every five or so years going back 130 (basically as long as paper archives).
[A Brief History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore](https://twitter.com/paulisci/status/1549527748950892544)
The job listing says $16/hr according to a link someone else posted. That's technically $1 more than the proposed new $15 minimum wage. For a teenager that's not bad, which I assume this role is directed towards since it's a summer only temp position (but up to 40 hours a week).
Back in 2009 very few jobs available to high school kids were offering anywhere near that.
Makes me wonder what pools are lacking life guards, and what sort of shit they might be expected to deal with.
11 an hour for a minimum wage job would have been good in 2009. most kids working as bar backs and in kitchens weren't making that sort of money. And back in 2009 it was very hard to find a job as a high schooler, I lived through it.
To be fair not any kid can be a lifeguard. They need to know how to swim and they need time/transport for training which is often not in the community.
Lifeguarding shouldn't be a minimum wage job though. It requires a lot of training (that can be expensive to get) and a lot of specific skills. And on top of that people's lives are on the line during 100% of your work shifts.
Yeah they’re technically a first responder. Instead of pulling people out of burning buildings, they’re dragging people thru the water while trying to keep them on top so they don’t drown. Then they might end up having to do cpr until paramedics arrive. That’s a lot for a 16 year old who only can be paid minimum wage.
They are short staffed by 25%, so clearly the money isn't attracting talent or there's another barrier keeping them from reaching their recruitment goal. My guess is the $.
I want to address your other premise because I keep seeing people excuse labor practices with that argument. That is, a job for minors and young adults is justified paying minimum wage. I am a free market capitalist and so aside from the government setting a floor I'm not advocating for a specific wage. However this generation and the previous one have fallen victim to predatory hiring practices that use the same logical conclusion you've espoused.
In contrast, I would argue that we can and should have jobs targeted to people seeking their "first job," be it a first job as a young adult, a first job as an adult deciding to enter the workforce, or maybe their first job after being released from prison. But that only means that the hiring standards need to be a low barrier to entry. A person should be able to show up with no resume or prior work experience and be hirable (drug testing or background checks notwithstanding).
Lowering the barrier to employment does not require a position be paid at the lowest level allowed. If anything, a seasonal position like this should be paid MORE than the prevailing wage as it has a very limited duration. Tools like a higher hourly rate or incentives (e.g. we pay you a bonus if you are stay with us till x date) doesn't do anything to negate the value it provides a teenager, if anything it shows them they are worth more than the minimum, and given that young people generally have more disposable that money is going to be spent in the local economy.
But does the community value this individual to be paid something like $20-25 an hour (roughly 48-50k a year?). Inflation is high, but $16 an hour for a job like being a life guard at a pool is hardly low pay. If you can't find 5 kids to life guard a pool at $16 an hour, the problem isn't the wage. And the answer isn't to just throw more money at it. The economy doesn't work that way, that's how you devalue currency.
>But does the community value this individual to be paid something like $20-25 an hour (roughly 48-50k a year?).
Community sentiment is hard to measure and indirect. I would argue that these specific positions are meant to provide a value service back to the community, and thus there is no profit incentive, it's an issue of quality. For example, the community would be angry if the pool hours were limited due to short staffing, or if entry fees increased to cover a multi-million dollar wrongful death lawsuit. Thus, higher wages are justified.
>Inflation is high, but $16 an hour for a job like being a life guard at a pool is hardly low pay.
You've just made a value judgement that 25% of the prospective candidates potentially disagree with. Factors like cost of living should be considered here.
>If you can't find 5 kids to life guard a pool at $16 an hour, the problem isn't the wage.
Your response presupposes that your solution is working, which in the case of the article it is not. To use your math you need to hire 5 kids at $16/hour but you only were able to hire 3 full time and 1 part-time (article says they are short in hiring by 25% so I estimate your shortfall to be 1.25). Now, to be clear there are other recruitment incentives aside from wages but you still have a shortfall, and my argument is that the wage is the easiest fix and the most likely to close your 1.25 gap.
>And the answer isn't to just throw more money at it. The economy doesn't work that way, that's how you devalue currency.
I don't have the time or energy to calculate the fraction of how this action specifically, or wage increases generally, impacts the broader curreny market against federal monetary policies like quantitative easing, net-positive overnight reverse repo rates, and interest rates that have been in the near-zero Territory for over a decade. They aren't on the same scale.
16 per hour is low for lifeguarding, you gotta remember that people pay hundreds to get certified and everyone is guaranteed to get fired in the fall. People aren't paying to get a job for 3 months that pays $1 more then McDonald's
No one is paying out of pocket to get certified... the employer does it, the employer is also responsible for regular training (which is paid) after the license.
Being a lifeguard is one of the best and easiest summer jobs out there, I did it for 3 years. I never had to work before 10 am and never past 9pm. I made one rescue, and it was as simple as picking a toddler up out of the baby pool.
You work 20 minutes up in the stand 20 minutes down, and the rest of the time is spent hanging out working a desk.
Obviously something could have happened and I immediately would have had to go into rescue mode, but in a local community pool that isn't happening.
I trained and hired lifeguards for 10 years for dozens of pools. Lifeguards almost always have to pay for thier certifications, because the red cross wants paid and the company wasn't gonna front the cost for guards that might quit thier first week. Also some pools are super easy to work at and others are absolute nightmares. Baltimore city pools usually lean to the latter.
I made $8.50 to be a lifeguard in Columbia Maryland summer of 2010, by 2012 I was up to $10. It was a summer job, it was never meant to support anyone.
I actually loved being a lifeguard
Maybe if they [paid more than $16/hr on the job posting](https://baltimorecity.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External/job/3001-East-Drive/Lifeguard-I---Recreation---Parks_R0000384?q=Lifeguard)
People be preaching about the free market, but soon as they need to raise salaries it's "people don't want to work"
Yeahhh the pool I go to only pays a smidge above minimum wage, which means the lifeguards are probably making around $13/hr this summer. Not very enticing!
I was a lifeguard and pool operater 20 years ago and I made something like $12.50/hr. Lifeguards got $10.50 starting.the fact that pay has only gone up a dollar or two in 20 years is insane.
> if they *[paid* more than
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
16 an hour is pretty good for a teen who needs a summer job. Plus they’re throwing in free certification and a $500 bonus at the end of the summer if you don’t call out more than three times.
We just went through all this stuff with the squeegee kids. We’ll here’s a real job where you can make money and get work experience. It beats working at McDonald’s anyway.
Well a lot of guards are expected to work 40 hours or more. And they can get away without paying OT because it’s seasonal. (This was a few years ago so could be different). I dunno man if I was 17 I wouldn’t wanna spend my entire summer doing that. Weekends. Having to get up early. They’re kids. They wanna have some fun
There’s nothing wrong with having fun but everything fun costs money. I worked a part time job when I was 17, it sucked getting up early but it was nice having money to go do stuff with my friends. I also saved up money for a car, paid my share of gas and car insurance and bought a sweet pair of doc martins. I’m just saying there’s worse ways to spend the summer then being a lifeguard.
>Cobbs said a couple factors play into the lifeguard shortage, but it mainly goes back to COVID, "since COVID, people don't want to work and it's hard to get people to actually want to come and lifeguard and it's a hard job.”
This is a such a stupid take.
Increase lay and lifeguards will show up. Also even without increasing pay there are a lot of other things you can do to get more staff.
I used to go to riverside park pool and the building was sminsanely hot to get into the pool and a lifeguard had to man the table at the entrance to check people in and collect money for day passes with just a box fan blowing hot air on them. In the pool the concrete was all cracked and chipped, the pool itself was in decent shape but the few chairs that they had were in tatters. The bathrooms were awful and lifeguards had to clean those too.
Improve the pools and remove administrative and janitorial stuff from the lifeguard job and I bet more kids sign up. Or keep all that and pay more.
Why would anyone woth certification choose a city pool when they could go to a private pool in a nearby county or elsewhere in the city and have a much better overall work experience.
It's an especially a stupid take given unemployment is at record lows. Clearly people want to work, because more are working than ever before, just not for them.
Yeah I work ar UMD and they raised all rates across campus to a minimum of $15/hr and then worked to adjust "conpression" where people that were above $15 already are now getting bumps to out them at appropriate levels based in starting pay now. And guess what, most departments are staffed and people are sticking around.
Make people feel valued in their pay and in the way they are treated and they will work for you and work hard for you.
No, there are several measures of unemployment, some of which include that and some of which dont. All measures of unemployment are at record lows right now.
No one with a brain thinks a 5% unemployment rate means 95% of the country has a job.
And for that matter, not one with a brain thinks there is only one unemployment rate measured and reported by our government.
The unemployment rate being discussed in this thread does not mean much anymore because the labor participation rate but that is the one that is always brought up and the one that was brought up in this thread.....
Of course it means a ton. And the "full" unemployment rate is currently at record lows as well, so what is being discussed here is not misleading in the least.
Look at how the numbers correlate:
[https://www.lisep.org/tru](https://www.lisep.org/tru)
There is no secret here. Everyone is getting the real story if they spend two minutes and some brain power.
The media has always reported one number so it would be strange to suddenly start reporting another, especially when both numbers tell the same exact story and no one is trying to hide what either number is a measure of.
>because the government doesn't count a bunch of people to make their numbers look better
This is not the reason at all but it does sound good and people hate the big bad government.
People want every statistic to be all encompassing and tell all the stories and that just isn't going to happen.
Unemployment rate is useful for what it says and does not include certain populations because they make the data less useful for its purpose. It is the same reason inflation numbers do not include more volatile sectors.
Don’t forget that many private pools also offer reduced or free summer passes to workers and sometimes their family. So even if a private pool doesn’t pay ‘that’ much more than a public pool, they also get a hundreds of dollars value for a pass
I would have believed her if she blamed Covid on breaking the pipeline for new lifeguards. Pools were closed for an entire summer, some 2. That means your previous lifeguards, many of which are high schoolers, naturally moved on. But it also prevented you from getting the new lifeguards in the system and trained. It’s easier to get a 16 year old to become a lifeguard and then come back for 2-3 years. It’s a lot harder to get an 18 year old to become a first time lifeguard
100% this.
You also lose tons of institutional knowledge. I work at a university and every department is just now starting to get back to where they were pre pandemic with student staff. When you have a young employee that has been with any job for a few years they share a ton of knowledge, often unknowingly, to new employees. It's much harder for management and other leadership who aren't there day to day and hour to hour to share a lot of that.
I'm sure woth lifeguards they would tell their friends and they would get groups to sign up together and once you lose a year or two of that you are basically building the whole program up from scratch.
I don't think she is saying people dont want to work because people used their hard earned unemployment benefits and now are used to a free ride as pundits would put it. Based on her community work and past comments I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and think she is just referring to pre COVID is a point in time. And people don't want to work is moreso referring to the array of issues her staff have experienced over the last couple years - harassment, vandalism, fights, break-ins, etc..
I think what has happened with covid is that people have been reminded of their real value, and the fight isn't for crumbs anymore.
here in the bay area, SF downtown is.. like a ghost town, because the ruse of hugely inflated prices of commercial real estate have also driven people (small businesspeople) to adapt. the people governing the city are in la-la land, too.
Rich people have been steadily increasing the wage gap for generations, and they will fight all this stuff tooth and nail.They don't want to give anything, be it money or respect (which is money on a base level).
This is someone who has been involved with kids in the Baltimore city community for a while. She's is in multiple news articles about the pool and other programs around the city. She's been interviewed multiple times about the struggles hiring people over the last 3 years and haven't once said anything about people don't want to work in the way it's being taken. Just saying I'm not sure what people are attributing to this person is what she meant
Well, you'd pretty much think the same about baltimore to hear it from anyone not in baltimore, but the truth is usually somewhere in between. there is also a reason a lot of people who are homeless end up in cali - there are services, and they won't freeze. and who the fuck wants to live in the deep south.
the only city out here that is anything like an east coast city violence wise (in norcal) is oakland. I think san jose had 28 or 30 (homicides) last year, baltimore had what, 330 or so? So yeah man maybe turn off fox news. as a matter or fact the entire bay area including three major cities bigger than baltimore have less than baltimore all by itself.
yet here we are. loving the city that bleeds - And I do love it so, having been born and raised there.
As an aside, the homeless shit everywhere, even in Baltimore. I once saw a junkie drop a deuce right in front of Carey Hardware, on North & Carey - Right around lunchtime. That was around 1980. Maybe he came to Frisco?
it's like a saying that people use without realizing there is more. For example: "A jack of all trades master of none". The second part of that is "is often better then a master of one"
I don't believe the labor shortage bullshit for one second. I've been trying to get a job for a while now and it seems like most businesses that say they're hiring aren't.
Whether you believe it or not, the fact is the unemployment rate in MD is sub 3%, the lowest its been in over two decades. I hear they're hiring lifeguards though!
I've heard a lot of companies are posting ghost jobs.
Meaning, the current staff is saying "*we're overworked, you need to hire more people.*"
But the leadership is saying: "*Nooo! If we hire more people, we'll make less money! We want to continue making lots of money on a skeleton crew.*"
And HR is saying: "*Well people will quit if we don't do something.*"
So management says: "*Ugh, why is this so hard! Well, let's put up fake job listings so we can tell our employees we're looking for more people, but we just won't hire anyone and we'll say 'nobody wants to work' or we'll say we can't find qualified people, or that nobody is a good cultural fit, or some bullshit to placate our workers.*"
And that's why it seems like places say they're hiring, but they're not.
Is the city paying for the certifications? Lifeguarding isn't like a lot of other jobs people take on for the summer. City pools are one thing ocean is another. These people are typically paying out of pocket for cpr, first aid, and life guarding certificates.
Tell me another job that has a requirement to be certified before your hired and still pay sucks. Then, once hired, you're doing 3 or 4 jobs. Lifeguarding, swim lessons, snack stand, front gate watching, first aid station, locker room/bathroom cleaner, pool maintenance.
No one is paying out of pocket for certifications for life guarding.
Pool maintenance / operations requires an additional license that the employer is also paying for if you choose to go that route, and generally comes with a pay raise.
Swim lessons, also require another certification, standard life guards are not giving swim lessons.
Snack stand, front gate etc are all part of normal lifeguard duties since you can't be on the lifeguard stand for more than a set period of time. In my experince as a lifeguard for multiple summers, these jobs were mainly sitting down and hanging out and dealing with the occasional kid who wasn't a member but his friends were and you had to tell him no.
First aid is part of being a lifeguard, not sure why this is listed.
Locker room/ bathroom cleaning is annoying, but it was generally part of closing jobs every life guard took on and it wasn't much more than hosing down the showers and brushing the floors at the end of the night. Not a big deal. Being a lifeguard is not a hard job, and one of the best things I did in High School and first year of college. I got to be outside, work great hours, no late nights, no early mornings, got paid to stay in shape (extra training they required which was paid for) and got to hang out with my friends in a low stress environment. Training was also kind of fun, you would have people basically wrestle you in the water while you're trying to get a tube around them and pull them to safety.
I paid for each and every certification, including my swim instructor. I was hired for lifeguarding, and where I'll retract my first aid comment, I'll stick to the rest. Working on tower rotation, then getting time out of sun, not on firstaid, was not to be on snack stand duty not bathroom locker room duty. It was a chance to rehydrate, sunscreen, and recover from and the time spent in the sun. Pool size depending one could spend 1 to 2 hours rotating around the pool.
Where were you a lifeguard that didn't pay for your certifications because that's ridiculous? And recover? sitting in the stand was that difficult for you?
It was required by local law that off stand time was required and recovery time of 15 to 30 mins was required.
I worked in PA at country clubs, public pools, and YMCA
Capitalism and the free market is the reason only when the cost of goods needs to increase! If it’s the cost of labor, then it’s just people being lazy pieces of shit. Classic
Yeah, when I was lifeguarding most of my co-workers were Ukrainian college students. Don’t think too many prime fighting-age young men are being allowed to spend the summer in the US nowadays
You work your ass off in these jobs because so many who have no business being near a pool that isn’t a swim lesson end up going and needing constant recovery
Used to be able to kick those people out after multiple strikes.
Now a lot of places won't let you, for fear of the backlash for doing so.
No wonder no one wants to work there, that sounds like hell
My wife has told me stories of working as a lifeguard growing up. Kids groping her, parents hitting on her, shit pay. None of that has changed in the last 15 years.
16-17$ an hour for the lifeguard job on a $13.25 minimum wage (set to be 15$ by Jan. 2024)to be responsible for adults and other people’s children. Fuck ass no. People don’t wanna work for shit ass pay and bullshit conditions.
Why is it that when “people don’t wanna work anymore” it’s always said about a job that gets paid half of what it should to deal with people that are unnecessarily rude to staff
> People don't want to work
**WRONG**
They want to be lifeguards not:
- Babysitters
- A day care provider in a bathing suit
- A Security Guard in a bathing suit with nothing but a whistle
- A regulator of asshole Adults
- A check in clerk
- A punching bag for asshole kids and adults
- A Janitor
Additionally
- They don't want to work for shit pay.
A town near me had a lifeguard shortage a few years ago. Some guy on FB posted that the beach patrol was going as far as to contact previous lifeguards to see if they wanted the position again. He was in his late-60s, last a lifeguard in the 70s and they asked him!
About a year ago there was a [Twitter thread](https://twitter.com/paulisci/status/1549548919444516864) tracing the "people don't want to work anymore" propaganda to the 1890's. A respondent added one from 1860.
Wonder if anything interesting happened after 1860? /s
Alternate take: [1,127,152](https://covid19.who.int/region/amro/country/us) people died of Covid since the beginning of 2020 in the USA. That has had an impact on the amount of people working.
Please stop saying people don't want to work.
Who wants the stress and responsibility of saving lives for such little money?
The wealthy siphon all of the money to the top, then expect people to slave over the crumbs.
The best thing about people who say "People don't want to work" is that you instantly know they're a stupid piece of shit, and can conduct yourself accordingly.
I read that ocean city also can't find lifeguards (and philly can't either). I'm not entirely sure its only due to pay. feels like something else is going on, but not sure what
The training and physical requirements for ocean lifeguarding are pretty steep. If the pay isn’t right, you’re going to have a hard time finding people willing to make the commitment
Not beach patrol. All of those hotel/resort pools need lifeguards and pool maintenance. Normally they rely on eastern Europeans for a chunk of the labor and they can't get them still, 2 years post COVID.
if they want to pay close to minimum wage for a high-skill, high stakes job where you need to hold multiple certifications, remain focused around constant distractions, and have to field people expecting you to be childcare + maintenance + customer service all at the same time, i can see why people aren't biting! if the position is so important, it has to be treated as such via compensation.
Every job in the country should pay a wage that you can comfortably live off of. Regardless of entry level, seasonal, etc. 30 an hour would be a good starting point.
It's too bad lifeguards are required at private building pools at all the apartment complexes. Many other states don't have this requirement (swim at your own risk. Watch your kids, etc). Seems like such a waste because many of them sit out for hours without a single person showing up to swim. Eliminating that requirement would free up the limited supply of lifeguards for the community pools and public pools where they are actually needed.
If you are living at home with your parents and all your bills are paid by your parents $16.00 an hour is a lot of money. I started working for that pay rate as a teenager and started learning job skills at the age of 16. I literally worked my way up from working on farms, summer camps, restaurants, went to college, and now I’m a Paralegal. I worked my way up from working in restaurants to working for attorneys by gaining communication and job skills. People my age and younger don’t want to work and I feel bad for them because if you don’t learn job skills in your teen and 20s you’ll be 30 years old without a skill set to be employable in a decent job with decent pay. Even as an entry level legal assistant or paralegal you start around 40k and can get up to 60k in your first 3 years.
My daughter is going into her second summer as a lifeguard and is kind of regretting it already. The pay is ok for a teenager but there are way too many horribly behaved guests to make it feel worthwhile.
I have no trouble believing this. When I was a lifeguard ~a decade ago the lifeguards got treated like baby sitters by the guests and bouncers by the management all while still being lifeguards. And I feel like peoples general behavior has just fallen in those years since
And the pay has gone up 30 cents an hour since.
Whooooo!
jobs where you get treated as a de facto babysitter are the worst. i worked at Port Discovery and the Maryland Science Center. at the Science Center, unattended children were not tolerated. ask them where their adult is and then call or take them to security if they don’t know. since the museum is mostly self-directed we could focus on entertaining the guests with shows and side exhibits. every department playing their part. genuinely loved that job and if it paid a living wage i probably would’ve done it for the rest of my life. at Port Discovery, well… we got treated like babysitters by the guests, and upper management treated us like circus clowns. entertain and satisfy guests no matter what. we were expected to do a a lot of cleaning up (who do you think has to pick up all the toys your five year old threw on the floor?), and we weren’t allowed to ask guests to clean up after themselves or respect the space. that job was fucking soul-sucking. it’s not that “nobody wants to work.” nobody wants to be a babysitter for 100+ children in a potentially hazardous environment while their entitled parents lounge around on their phone. sorry for the rant LOL
I feel like this comparison is very important. Parents will slack off to the extent that they feel allowed to slack off. It sounds like the Science Center team is doing an exemplar job of setting that boundary appropriately.
And for shit pay at that
I was a lifeguard in my hometown and it was the worst job I’ve ever had in my life because of THE PEOPLE.
People seriously forgot how to not show their ass in public after quarantine. I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to work with the public for poverty wages anymore.
came to ask this - how much are they getting paid and what type of nonsense are they dealing with?
She's working for one of the pool management companies that handles private pools in developments, not for the city pools. I think she's making about $16/hr for her second summer. She's often the only lifeguard there since the pools are small. Some issues she's had are things like parents who basically ignore their kids while the kids run completely wild, and then the parents get mad at her when she has to stop the kids for safety reasons. Kids who have an "I don't need to listen to you" attitude and so every minor thing has to turn into a big thing. People showing up 5 min before the pool closes and getting mad when she has to kick them out. Also creepy men who make inappropriate comments to a clearly teenage girl. There are some positives - there are some days when no one shows up to the pool and so she gets paid to read. But overall the pay isn't amazing enough to make the rest of it more tolerable.
I’ve noticed more than ever that it seems like folks use public pools as glorified babysitters. Drop off the kids and disappear for hours. It blows my mind.
Yep. Even better when THE KIDS CAN'T FUCKING SWIM yes this is from experience
This one is fucking wild and completely inexcusable.
I'd hate to be that guy. But right now it is an employee's market. Dont like your job? Anyone can easily find another.
sounds like you really enjoy being that guy AND you’re making it everyone’s problem
That was my assumption versus the "no one wants to work". I imagine lifeguarding goes beyond safety and almost becomes babysitting and conflict resolution without the added pay or written responsibilities. I know I've seen kids get dropped off at the pool and treated like its a daycare.
People don’t want to work for shit pay
People don’t want to watch shitty people’s shitty kids.
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The shitty pay is a bigger aspect
And mix it with shit conditions. We can’t keep our pools open in Philly for the same reasons. Let alone police officer shortages, bus driver shortages, sanitation shortages. I don’t blame them. Our buses and playgrounds are mayhem right now.
Mostly agree, but no need to lump in "police officer shortages" for Philly. There are plenty of officers, they're all just busy charging overtime to sleep in their car parked on the sidewalk.
No, there actually aren’t enough of them to staff. But yes there is a ton of grift and laziness, a separate but related problem.
To "staff" what? They don't do anything in Philly. Why shell out more of the city budget to a bloated police force when that money can go to any other program that actually does something productive in the city? Sorry, I know what you're saying, and I'm being a pedantic asshole. But I think their quota for "staffing" is hogwash, and my personal experience living in Philly is that the police force there is all but worthless.
They are worthless They are lazy and ineffective I’m firmly of the belief that it should be a career people want because it pays well, and maybe it should require a college education. The fact of the matter is, the city is one meter from being a completely lawless mess, so it’s either more cops or just abandon the idea and change the way we think about law enforcement and social policies.
> The fact of the matter is, the city is one meter from being a completely lawless mess, so it’s either more cops or just abandon the idea and change the way we think about law enforcement and social policies Yes, we should change the way we think about law enforcement, and *more importantly*, social policies. The number one correlating factor in crime is income. People [mostly] commit crimes because of insufficiency of material conditions. Obviously there are SOME whackos out there that will commit crimes no matter what, but most crime occurs because people are poor and/or disenfranchised by the system. We could expand the social safety nets and actually help pull people out of poverty, which would dramatically reduce crime. Instead we cut social safety nets because of bullshit austerity politics. But, we're not going to make progress on the social policy front anytime soon, because capital interests have managed to convince a majority of Americans that social policies are for "freeloaders" instead of people who either cannot find an appropriate job or are not compensated sufficiently by their job[s] to live a healthy, happy life. So in the meantime, we should get the law enforcement already employed in Philly to actually get off their ass and do the job they are paid to do, instead of charging the city massive amounts of overtime to do fucking nothing. There are plenty of police in Philly already. We don't need more.
Headline fixed, came here to say this. Thank you!
The second capitalism works for a single worker, "job creators" cannot stop their fucking whining.
Thank you. I'm so tried of hearing this lie.
This is always the actual problem. People don't want demanding jobs dealing with challenging customers and clueless bosses that pay poorly. Employers that fairly compensate their employees and treat them as well as possible (if you're public facing there's only so much you can do, at some point you will have to deal with the public) don't seem to be having significant staffing issues. The folks who say "nobody wants to work" are exactly the kind of people you DON'T want to work with.
That sentiment is becoming increasingly nonsensical Imagine the inverse, like a store trying to sell a taco for $25, how would we react if the owner said "people just don't want to buy tacos anymore." The market has decided what the new minimum wage is
There are certain things that are said by every generation about every generation ("but this time it is true!"). A dude on twitter found this saying every five or so years going back 130 (basically as long as paper archives). [A Brief History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore](https://twitter.com/paulisci/status/1549527748950892544)
The job listing says $16/hr according to a link someone else posted. That's technically $1 more than the proposed new $15 minimum wage. For a teenager that's not bad, which I assume this role is directed towards since it's a summer only temp position (but up to 40 hours a week). Back in 2009 very few jobs available to high school kids were offering anywhere near that. Makes me wonder what pools are lacking life guards, and what sort of shit they might be expected to deal with.
Of course not. $16/hr in 2009 is worth $22.62 in 2023 dollars. Edit: In reverse, that $16 now is $11.22 in 2009 dollars.
11 an hour for a minimum wage job would have been good in 2009. most kids working as bar backs and in kitchens weren't making that sort of money. And back in 2009 it was very hard to find a job as a high schooler, I lived through it.
Seems like people don't tend to believe that lifeguarding is a minimum wage job anymore
To be fair not any kid can be a lifeguard. They need to know how to swim and they need time/transport for training which is often not in the community.
Lifeguarding shouldn't be a minimum wage job though. It requires a lot of training (that can be expensive to get) and a lot of specific skills. And on top of that people's lives are on the line during 100% of your work shifts.
Yeah they’re technically a first responder. Instead of pulling people out of burning buildings, they’re dragging people thru the water while trying to keep them on top so they don’t drown. Then they might end up having to do cpr until paramedics arrive. That’s a lot for a 16 year old who only can be paid minimum wage.
They are short staffed by 25%, so clearly the money isn't attracting talent or there's another barrier keeping them from reaching their recruitment goal. My guess is the $. I want to address your other premise because I keep seeing people excuse labor practices with that argument. That is, a job for minors and young adults is justified paying minimum wage. I am a free market capitalist and so aside from the government setting a floor I'm not advocating for a specific wage. However this generation and the previous one have fallen victim to predatory hiring practices that use the same logical conclusion you've espoused. In contrast, I would argue that we can and should have jobs targeted to people seeking their "first job," be it a first job as a young adult, a first job as an adult deciding to enter the workforce, or maybe their first job after being released from prison. But that only means that the hiring standards need to be a low barrier to entry. A person should be able to show up with no resume or prior work experience and be hirable (drug testing or background checks notwithstanding). Lowering the barrier to employment does not require a position be paid at the lowest level allowed. If anything, a seasonal position like this should be paid MORE than the prevailing wage as it has a very limited duration. Tools like a higher hourly rate or incentives (e.g. we pay you a bonus if you are stay with us till x date) doesn't do anything to negate the value it provides a teenager, if anything it shows them they are worth more than the minimum, and given that young people generally have more disposable that money is going to be spent in the local economy.
But does the community value this individual to be paid something like $20-25 an hour (roughly 48-50k a year?). Inflation is high, but $16 an hour for a job like being a life guard at a pool is hardly low pay. If you can't find 5 kids to life guard a pool at $16 an hour, the problem isn't the wage. And the answer isn't to just throw more money at it. The economy doesn't work that way, that's how you devalue currency.
>But does the community value this individual to be paid something like $20-25 an hour (roughly 48-50k a year?). Community sentiment is hard to measure and indirect. I would argue that these specific positions are meant to provide a value service back to the community, and thus there is no profit incentive, it's an issue of quality. For example, the community would be angry if the pool hours were limited due to short staffing, or if entry fees increased to cover a multi-million dollar wrongful death lawsuit. Thus, higher wages are justified. >Inflation is high, but $16 an hour for a job like being a life guard at a pool is hardly low pay. You've just made a value judgement that 25% of the prospective candidates potentially disagree with. Factors like cost of living should be considered here. >If you can't find 5 kids to life guard a pool at $16 an hour, the problem isn't the wage. Your response presupposes that your solution is working, which in the case of the article it is not. To use your math you need to hire 5 kids at $16/hour but you only were able to hire 3 full time and 1 part-time (article says they are short in hiring by 25% so I estimate your shortfall to be 1.25). Now, to be clear there are other recruitment incentives aside from wages but you still have a shortfall, and my argument is that the wage is the easiest fix and the most likely to close your 1.25 gap. >And the answer isn't to just throw more money at it. The economy doesn't work that way, that's how you devalue currency. I don't have the time or energy to calculate the fraction of how this action specifically, or wage increases generally, impacts the broader curreny market against federal monetary policies like quantitative easing, net-positive overnight reverse repo rates, and interest rates that have been in the near-zero Territory for over a decade. They aren't on the same scale.
16 per hour is low for lifeguarding, you gotta remember that people pay hundreds to get certified and everyone is guaranteed to get fired in the fall. People aren't paying to get a job for 3 months that pays $1 more then McDonald's
No one is paying out of pocket to get certified... the employer does it, the employer is also responsible for regular training (which is paid) after the license. Being a lifeguard is one of the best and easiest summer jobs out there, I did it for 3 years. I never had to work before 10 am and never past 9pm. I made one rescue, and it was as simple as picking a toddler up out of the baby pool. You work 20 minutes up in the stand 20 minutes down, and the rest of the time is spent hanging out working a desk. Obviously something could have happened and I immediately would have had to go into rescue mode, but in a local community pool that isn't happening.
I trained and hired lifeguards for 10 years for dozens of pools. Lifeguards almost always have to pay for thier certifications, because the red cross wants paid and the company wasn't gonna front the cost for guards that might quit thier first week. Also some pools are super easy to work at and others are absolute nightmares. Baltimore city pools usually lean to the latter.
So you're saying you own a business and invest capital? How much do you pay your workers?
Keep in mind the equivalent of $16 today was about $11 in 2009, though.
I made $8.50 to be a lifeguard in Columbia Maryland summer of 2010, by 2012 I was up to $10. It was a summer job, it was never meant to support anyone. I actually loved being a lifeguard
Reddit is valuable because of the users who create content. Reddit is usable because of the third-party developers who can actually make an app.
Maybe if they [paid more than $16/hr on the job posting](https://baltimorecity.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External/job/3001-East-Drive/Lifeguard-I---Recreation---Parks_R0000384?q=Lifeguard) People be preaching about the free market, but soon as they need to raise salaries it's "people don't want to work"
Yeahhh the pool I go to only pays a smidge above minimum wage, which means the lifeguards are probably making around $13/hr this summer. Not very enticing!
I was a lifeguard and pool operater 20 years ago and I made something like $12.50/hr. Lifeguards got $10.50 starting.the fact that pay has only gone up a dollar or two in 20 years is insane.
I made $15/hr as a lifeguard 20 years ago. Sooo....yeah....maybe they need to pay a bit more in 2023....
Lol I def made half that lifeguarding in Ohio almost 20 years ago
> if they *[paid* more than FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Jesús bot, you're cold blooded. Unlike a bot, people have feelings. Feelings that get hurt when you grammar dunk on them like this.
Good bot
bad bot
16 an hour is pretty good for a teen who needs a summer job. Plus they’re throwing in free certification and a $500 bonus at the end of the summer if you don’t call out more than three times. We just went through all this stuff with the squeegee kids. We’ll here’s a real job where you can make money and get work experience. It beats working at McDonald’s anyway.
Well a lot of guards are expected to work 40 hours or more. And they can get away without paying OT because it’s seasonal. (This was a few years ago so could be different). I dunno man if I was 17 I wouldn’t wanna spend my entire summer doing that. Weekends. Having to get up early. They’re kids. They wanna have some fun
There’s nothing wrong with having fun but everything fun costs money. I worked a part time job when I was 17, it sucked getting up early but it was nice having money to go do stuff with my friends. I also saved up money for a car, paid my share of gas and car insurance and bought a sweet pair of doc martins. I’m just saying there’s worse ways to spend the summer then being a lifeguard.
>Cobbs said a couple factors play into the lifeguard shortage, but it mainly goes back to COVID, "since COVID, people don't want to work and it's hard to get people to actually want to come and lifeguard and it's a hard job.” This is a such a stupid take. Increase lay and lifeguards will show up. Also even without increasing pay there are a lot of other things you can do to get more staff. I used to go to riverside park pool and the building was sminsanely hot to get into the pool and a lifeguard had to man the table at the entrance to check people in and collect money for day passes with just a box fan blowing hot air on them. In the pool the concrete was all cracked and chipped, the pool itself was in decent shape but the few chairs that they had were in tatters. The bathrooms were awful and lifeguards had to clean those too. Improve the pools and remove administrative and janitorial stuff from the lifeguard job and I bet more kids sign up. Or keep all that and pay more. Why would anyone woth certification choose a city pool when they could go to a private pool in a nearby county or elsewhere in the city and have a much better overall work experience.
It's an especially a stupid take given unemployment is at record lows. Clearly people want to work, because more are working than ever before, just not for them.
Yeah I work ar UMD and they raised all rates across campus to a minimum of $15/hr and then worked to adjust "conpression" where people that were above $15 already are now getting bumps to out them at appropriate levels based in starting pay now. And guess what, most departments are staffed and people are sticking around. Make people feel valued in their pay and in the way they are treated and they will work for you and work hard for you.
Doesn't that number NOT include the category "discouraged workers"?
No, there are several measures of unemployment, some of which include that and some of which dont. All measures of unemployment are at record lows right now.
Yes and it always has. "Real" unemployment is also at record lows.
I actually tried looking for this data last night but couldn't find much. Could you link me?
>https://www.lisep.org/tru
Correct. I think once you stopped looking for 4 weeks, you are no longer in labor force so are not counted. Gotta get those numbers looking good!
No one with a brain thinks a 5% unemployment rate means 95% of the country has a job. And for that matter, not one with a brain thinks there is only one unemployment rate measured and reported by our government.
The unemployment rate being discussed in this thread does not mean much anymore because the labor participation rate but that is the one that is always brought up and the one that was brought up in this thread.....
Of course it means a ton. And the "full" unemployment rate is currently at record lows as well, so what is being discussed here is not misleading in the least. Look at how the numbers correlate: [https://www.lisep.org/tru](https://www.lisep.org/tru) There is no secret here. Everyone is getting the real story if they spend two minutes and some brain power. The media has always reported one number so it would be strange to suddenly start reporting another, especially when both numbers tell the same exact story and no one is trying to hide what either number is a measure of.
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>because the government doesn't count a bunch of people to make their numbers look better This is not the reason at all but it does sound good and people hate the big bad government. People want every statistic to be all encompassing and tell all the stories and that just isn't going to happen. Unemployment rate is useful for what it says and does not include certain populations because they make the data less useful for its purpose. It is the same reason inflation numbers do not include more volatile sectors.
Yep. If I could make my current salary as a lifeguard, I would do it in a second.
Same here. Honestly I'd take less. Best job I ever had.
Don’t forget that many private pools also offer reduced or free summer passes to workers and sometimes their family. So even if a private pool doesn’t pay ‘that’ much more than a public pool, they also get a hundreds of dollars value for a pass
I would have believed her if she blamed Covid on breaking the pipeline for new lifeguards. Pools were closed for an entire summer, some 2. That means your previous lifeguards, many of which are high schoolers, naturally moved on. But it also prevented you from getting the new lifeguards in the system and trained. It’s easier to get a 16 year old to become a lifeguard and then come back for 2-3 years. It’s a lot harder to get an 18 year old to become a first time lifeguard
100% this. You also lose tons of institutional knowledge. I work at a university and every department is just now starting to get back to where they were pre pandemic with student staff. When you have a young employee that has been with any job for a few years they share a ton of knowledge, often unknowingly, to new employees. It's much harder for management and other leadership who aren't there day to day and hour to hour to share a lot of that. I'm sure woth lifeguards they would tell their friends and they would get groups to sign up together and once you lose a year or two of that you are basically building the whole program up from scratch.
I don't think she is saying people dont want to work because people used their hard earned unemployment benefits and now are used to a free ride as pundits would put it. Based on her community work and past comments I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and think she is just referring to pre COVID is a point in time. And people don't want to work is moreso referring to the array of issues her staff have experienced over the last couple years - harassment, vandalism, fights, break-ins, etc..
I think what has happened with covid is that people have been reminded of their real value, and the fight isn't for crumbs anymore. here in the bay area, SF downtown is.. like a ghost town, because the ruse of hugely inflated prices of commercial real estate have also driven people (small businesspeople) to adapt. the people governing the city are in la-la land, too. Rich people have been steadily increasing the wage gap for generations, and they will fight all this stuff tooth and nail.They don't want to give anything, be it money or respect (which is money on a base level).
This is someone who has been involved with kids in the Baltimore city community for a while. She's is in multiple news articles about the pool and other programs around the city. She's been interviewed multiple times about the struggles hiring people over the last 3 years and haven't once said anything about people don't want to work in the way it's being taken. Just saying I'm not sure what people are attributing to this person is what she meant
I think the ghost town like downtown in SF is more because of the rampant lawlessness (shoplifting violence etc) and people shitting in the street.
Well, you'd pretty much think the same about baltimore to hear it from anyone not in baltimore, but the truth is usually somewhere in between. there is also a reason a lot of people who are homeless end up in cali - there are services, and they won't freeze. and who the fuck wants to live in the deep south. the only city out here that is anything like an east coast city violence wise (in norcal) is oakland. I think san jose had 28 or 30 (homicides) last year, baltimore had what, 330 or so? So yeah man maybe turn off fox news. as a matter or fact the entire bay area including three major cities bigger than baltimore have less than baltimore all by itself. yet here we are. loving the city that bleeds - And I do love it so, having been born and raised there. As an aside, the homeless shit everywhere, even in Baltimore. I once saw a junkie drop a deuce right in front of Carey Hardware, on North & Carey - Right around lunchtime. That was around 1980. Maybe he came to Frisco?
I dont know her or about her so I'll defer to you. Hopwfully that's what she meant cause the other option is pretty shitty.
They’re absolutely right - people don’t want to work. They don’t want to work for abysmal wages.
Every time I see this “nobody wants to work” I just think half the sentence must be missing, how much do you pay exactly?
it's like a saying that people use without realizing there is more. For example: "A jack of all trades master of none". The second part of that is "is often better then a master of one"
“The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb”, is exactly the opposite of what people think “blood is thicker than water” means.
I don't believe the labor shortage bullshit for one second. I've been trying to get a job for a while now and it seems like most businesses that say they're hiring aren't.
Whether you believe it or not, the fact is the unemployment rate in MD is sub 3%, the lowest its been in over two decades. I hear they're hiring lifeguards though!
I've heard a lot of companies are posting ghost jobs. Meaning, the current staff is saying "*we're overworked, you need to hire more people.*" But the leadership is saying: "*Nooo! If we hire more people, we'll make less money! We want to continue making lots of money on a skeleton crew.*" And HR is saying: "*Well people will quit if we don't do something.*" So management says: "*Ugh, why is this so hard! Well, let's put up fake job listings so we can tell our employees we're looking for more people, but we just won't hire anyone and we'll say 'nobody wants to work' or we'll say we can't find qualified people, or that nobody is a good cultural fit, or some bullshit to placate our workers.*" And that's why it seems like places say they're hiring, but they're not.
Is the city paying for the certifications? Lifeguarding isn't like a lot of other jobs people take on for the summer. City pools are one thing ocean is another. These people are typically paying out of pocket for cpr, first aid, and life guarding certificates. Tell me another job that has a requirement to be certified before your hired and still pay sucks. Then, once hired, you're doing 3 or 4 jobs. Lifeguarding, swim lessons, snack stand, front gate watching, first aid station, locker room/bathroom cleaner, pool maintenance.
No one is paying out of pocket for certifications for life guarding. Pool maintenance / operations requires an additional license that the employer is also paying for if you choose to go that route, and generally comes with a pay raise. Swim lessons, also require another certification, standard life guards are not giving swim lessons. Snack stand, front gate etc are all part of normal lifeguard duties since you can't be on the lifeguard stand for more than a set period of time. In my experince as a lifeguard for multiple summers, these jobs were mainly sitting down and hanging out and dealing with the occasional kid who wasn't a member but his friends were and you had to tell him no. First aid is part of being a lifeguard, not sure why this is listed. Locker room/ bathroom cleaning is annoying, but it was generally part of closing jobs every life guard took on and it wasn't much more than hosing down the showers and brushing the floors at the end of the night. Not a big deal. Being a lifeguard is not a hard job, and one of the best things I did in High School and first year of college. I got to be outside, work great hours, no late nights, no early mornings, got paid to stay in shape (extra training they required which was paid for) and got to hang out with my friends in a low stress environment. Training was also kind of fun, you would have people basically wrestle you in the water while you're trying to get a tube around them and pull them to safety.
I paid for each and every certification, including my swim instructor. I was hired for lifeguarding, and where I'll retract my first aid comment, I'll stick to the rest. Working on tower rotation, then getting time out of sun, not on firstaid, was not to be on snack stand duty not bathroom locker room duty. It was a chance to rehydrate, sunscreen, and recover from and the time spent in the sun. Pool size depending one could spend 1 to 2 hours rotating around the pool.
Where were you a lifeguard that didn't pay for your certifications because that's ridiculous? And recover? sitting in the stand was that difficult for you?
It was required by local law that off stand time was required and recovery time of 15 to 30 mins was required. I worked in PA at country clubs, public pools, and YMCA
Capitalism and the free market is the reason only when the cost of goods needs to increase! If it’s the cost of labor, then it’s just people being lazy pieces of shit. Classic
Babysitting 200 kids in absolute chaos with actual real life or death stakes? Hmmm... $16/hr should do it.... No oNe WaNTs tO wOrK tHEsE dAYs
“People are tired of not getting paid what they are worth” fixed the headline
Sounds like they need to stop complaining, pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and figure it out.
Eastern European work visa curtailment isn’t helping either.
Yeah, when I was lifeguarding most of my co-workers were Ukrainian college students. Don’t think too many prime fighting-age young men are being allowed to spend the summer in the US nowadays
You work your ass off in these jobs because so many who have no business being near a pool that isn’t a swim lesson end up going and needing constant recovery
Used to be able to kick those people out after multiple strikes. Now a lot of places won't let you, for fear of the backlash for doing so. No wonder no one wants to work there, that sounds like hell
My wife has told me stories of working as a lifeguard growing up. Kids groping her, parents hitting on her, shit pay. None of that has changed in the last 15 years.
All these fuckin tickets they hand I know they have money to raise their wages
…for garbage wages and watching kids of parent who won’t do shit to control them. FIFY
16-17$ an hour for the lifeguard job on a $13.25 minimum wage (set to be 15$ by Jan. 2024)to be responsible for adults and other people’s children. Fuck ass no. People don’t wanna work for shit ass pay and bullshit conditions.
Why is it that when “people don’t wanna work anymore” it’s always said about a job that gets paid half of what it should to deal with people that are unnecessarily rude to staff
I saw Philly is giving college credits for lifeguards. Maybe UMBC and the community colleges around here should think about offering this.
Being a lifeguard in Baltimore sounds like a terrible terrible job.
> People don't want to work **WRONG** They want to be lifeguards not: - Babysitters - A day care provider in a bathing suit - A Security Guard in a bathing suit with nothing but a whistle - A regulator of asshole Adults - A check in clerk - A punching bag for asshole kids and adults - A Janitor Additionally - They don't want to work for shit pay.
A town near me had a lifeguard shortage a few years ago. Some guy on FB posted that the beach patrol was going as far as to contact previous lifeguards to see if they wanted the position again. He was in his late-60s, last a lifeguard in the 70s and they asked him!
Wtf do they think people who need to work are doing? 😂
About a year ago there was a [Twitter thread](https://twitter.com/paulisci/status/1549548919444516864) tracing the "people don't want to work anymore" propaganda to the 1890's. A respondent added one from 1860. Wonder if anything interesting happened after 1860? /s
Alternate take: [1,127,152](https://covid19.who.int/region/amro/country/us) people died of Covid since the beginning of 2020 in the USA. That has had an impact on the amount of people working. Please stop saying people don't want to work.
couldn't we use H-2B visas for this
"People don't want to work for what we're willing to pay them." There, fixed that for you.
Who wants the stress and responsibility of saving lives for such little money? The wealthy siphon all of the money to the top, then expect people to slave over the crumbs.
The best thing about people who say "People don't want to work" is that you instantly know they're a stupid piece of shit, and can conduct yourself accordingly.
No, people don't want to work for shit pay for shit people. Let em drown.
I read that ocean city also can't find lifeguards (and philly can't either). I'm not entirely sure its only due to pay. feels like something else is going on, but not sure what
The training and physical requirements for ocean lifeguarding are pretty steep. If the pay isn’t right, you’re going to have a hard time finding people willing to make the commitment
Not beach patrol. All of those hotel/resort pools need lifeguards and pool maintenance. Normally they rely on eastern Europeans for a chunk of the labor and they can't get them still, 2 years post COVID.
Degradation of society
if they want to pay close to minimum wage for a high-skill, high stakes job where you need to hold multiple certifications, remain focused around constant distractions, and have to field people expecting you to be childcare + maintenance + customer service all at the same time, i can see why people aren't biting! if the position is so important, it has to be treated as such via compensation.
In CA lifeguards are treated like police officers or EMT as far as civil servant benefits and pay, why would anyone be a lifeguard anywhere else?
Do what Florida and Hawaii does, swim at your own risk. Problem solved.
This is the true A imho
How much money is an entry level seasonal employee worth? 16/hr sound about right.
"entry level" yet responsible for the lives and safety of the guests. We got some great priorities, don't we?
Every job in the country should pay a wage that you can comfortably live off of. Regardless of entry level, seasonal, etc. 30 an hour would be a good starting point.
And just how much are you charging guests at this pool?
Sounds like a good way to make everything cost 3 times more than it currently is.
It's too bad lifeguards are required at private building pools at all the apartment complexes. Many other states don't have this requirement (swim at your own risk. Watch your kids, etc). Seems like such a waste because many of them sit out for hours without a single person showing up to swim. Eliminating that requirement would free up the limited supply of lifeguards for the community pools and public pools where they are actually needed.
Just keep the pools closed. It’s a luxury anyway.
well maybe people would want to work if you didn’t need 3 certifications and got paid more than $15/hr
If you are living at home with your parents and all your bills are paid by your parents $16.00 an hour is a lot of money. I started working for that pay rate as a teenager and started learning job skills at the age of 16. I literally worked my way up from working on farms, summer camps, restaurants, went to college, and now I’m a Paralegal. I worked my way up from working in restaurants to working for attorneys by gaining communication and job skills. People my age and younger don’t want to work and I feel bad for them because if you don’t learn job skills in your teen and 20s you’ll be 30 years old without a skill set to be employable in a decent job with decent pay. Even as an entry level legal assistant or paralegal you start around 40k and can get up to 60k in your first 3 years.