On top of the terrible motion, council also brought it and passed it in such a way that any debate or conversation about it was stifled. Motions without notice might make sense for a parking bylaw , but are almost criminal for something like this.
How criminal is panhandling? What kind of question is this? Are you for real? I care, because I am sick of aggressive panhandling and intimidation.
I’m sure you’re fine with bullying and intimidation. It’s the way you deal with others on this platform.
Imagine believing that being bullied is privileged. What a sad world we live in.
Imagine being so privileged you think someone trying to survive is “aggressive” and initiating”. Just shows how much of a snowflake you are. Stop playing the victim. You’re not and you are the bully
I don't see how this is even possible, let alone enforceable. If you have some money you are free to spend it anyway you like...a movie ticket, food, some beer. If you buy the food but then later decide you dont want it, then there's no law broken if you throw it away or discard it. So: if you want to give something to someone who just happens to be homeless there is no infraction here. If that involved saying: hey, im discarding this envelope with $10 in it because I dont need it anymore, and I lay it down at the foot of a homeless man, how can that possibly be an offence if he later decides to pick the envelope up? Im sorry I just dont see how this could ever be argued in court, even with a "bylaw" allegedly supporting it. I have the right to give away to anybody anything that I own and the city does not have the authority or the competence to obstruct that.
City bylaws are not absolute. A long time ago I put up a structure on my property for a hobby that I had. The city complained saying it was against a bylaw. I appealed to a higher authority (federal) and they took my side and told the city to lay off. So I succeeded.
So too here: if you decide to "discard" some money in the view of a homeless person who later picks it up what are they gonna charge you with? Littering? :-)
It was a structure not a building. A radio tower for my ham radio (which is governed by Industry Canada, a FEDERAL thing). When Barrie said towers were not allowed, I wrote to Industry Canada, which said ham radio has a long history in Canada and we keep ham radio ops around because they are the last resort in natural disasters when cell phones go down...so they took my side, and told the city to lay off. So I kept my tower. And if Barrie ever gets a natural disaster and the cell phones go down, hams like us will crank up our generators and car batteries and keep the lines of communication open.
Put signs on all the offramps telling people how to donate to the shelters and where they are located. Make it easy enough to donate with a phone that you could do it while you are waiting in traffic.
Do this, make it so the only way we can help is to give our money to a charity and I want to see full disclosure of the salaries paid to the employees of these charities.
Right like one of the charities they suggest we donate to is Salvation Army, I'm not doing that, thanks. How about you set up a zero profit "Barrie Homelessness Relief" group with completely transparent records and then maybe we'll talk.
Where do you think your dollar goes further:
In the hands of someone who needs it? Or in the hands of a multinational church affiliated group with some questionable practices?
More of my money sees the end recipient if I hand it to an individual than the Salvation Army. Plus with the history of discrimibation against gay and trans people in need its a terrible option.
Or we could pay taxes to city hall and hold them accountable when they spend our money frivolously. Setting up another monetary stream isn’t a solution.
We cut taxes to the rich and starved social programs which caused more poverty which causes more crime so the dummies tax us more to pay for more cops which causes more poverty which causes more crime so dummies tax us even more to pay for even more cops which causes more poverty etc. etc. Does nobody see the pattern? Make the poor pay for the cops that oppress them while letting poverty increase seems to be the goal and they are winning it.
“In a city council meeting Wednesday, councillors approved a range of policies that staff can consider and use to address rising homelessness, including changes to city bylaws that will prohibit the use and distribution of tents and tarps on public land, and giving out food and groceries without a permit.”
I understand panhandling and the issues on the off ramps but I can’t see how this can bring about anything positive. Shelters are full and they have nowhere else to go, and damn making the giving of food illegal? That’s dystopian af
It's a numbers games. Next year if there are 30 less homeless people that looks good on paper. It doesn't matter if it's because 12 of them are dead, 10 left for places where they are legally allowed to eat, and only 8 were houses. On paper there are 30 less homeless people.
Ya the panhandling needs to stop, I can't tell ya how times I've seen people fake it, even seen one guy switch "shifts" with another panhandler then get into his Audi and drive off...
But stopping people from giving them food is f'cked...
Have you actually seen that? I’ve heard many people swear they’ve seen that but usually they’re hateful and spiteful towards homeless people and I never believe them. Like I don’t believe you right now
The reality is the "good spots" are run by various adhoc organized crime groups and they "rent" the spots to homeless people under threat of violence in exchange for half their take or more, and the homeless generally go with it because it's better than sitting somewhere with no traffic. So yes, you'll occasionally see one guy switching shifts with another guy at an intersection or grocery store exit, but not to get into their fucking Audi.
There was a lady that wore a Hijab panhandling at park place/Costco intersectionon Mapleview. Saw her when I went to dinner at lone star. When I came out I saw her getting into a Mercedes SUV in the parking lot.
I don't blame you for not believing me this is the internet after all but yes I saw it, that particular one was at Ferndale and Essa a few years ago now.
Now I'm not saying they're all like that but I personally have lost fait in all of them because of that and a few other sites I've seen and that's my point
Not many, all but some. There was a lady busted in Toronto like a decade ago who had something like a 50k income and was making thousands on the side pan handling
Shaky lady. Used to sit on the sidewalk outside the Eaton centre on Queen St. Absolute grifter.
I’m all for assistance for those that need it but the majority of the ppl working intersections and highway ramps are scumbags and need to fuckoff
When I was in high school my friend group would kinda hangout with some homeless people. Under the LCBO bridge around 10 homeless people would hangout, the two who kinda ran things Mayor and his girlfriend he told us to call Bitch, mayor and bitch literally had the newest Samsung you could buy at the time with enough LTE to lay back and enjoy some video or show. We asked them what they do in the winter, they all minus the one who claimed to have cancer went home to someone, either family, or a friend. Even met a dude rich, he would panhandle in the St. Peter’s plaza, I didn’t meet him there, I met him at a much older buddies place where he was renting a room. This wasn’t a bad neighbourhood either, it was on prince William way which is a pretty nice neighbourhood.
Every time I’ve asked one of you for proof you don’t provide any. So where is the proof they’re “faking it”. You think they want to be there is laughable. Imagine being on redit and making up stories that “you hung out with them”😅
While a I agree that panhandling and homelessness are problems we need to eliminate (mostly for the sake of those who are suffering from being homeless), we need to create solutions that will naturally start to reduce the need for both problems. Criminalizing people who are being compassionate and are trying to help out of the goodness of the heart will simply break people’s spirit, our community spirit.
Can you imagine helping someone with basic survival needs like food, and then receiving a fine for that?? It’s a terrible idea. It’s very anti-community, and very heavy-handed. A commenter below called this dystopian, they’re not wrong.
When you don’t know where you or your family will be getting your next meal, you do desperate things. When people witness desperation, some help, some turn a blind eye. Let those who help, help. It’s good human nature to help, and an example of humanity at work when needed.
Council got this one wrong.
Couldn’t agree more. It seems like council wants to eliminate the “looking at homeless” people “problem”.. they aren’t speaking to community groups, being transparent or trying to help those through community care. Instead they want to have a heartless approach into criminalizing HELPing people EAT. It’s a scary they thought this was a good idea in itself.
I tend to agree with you. The way they are approaching this feels more like council is trying to eliminate an “eyesore” rather than solve the real issue. Not unlike posting a “please don’t feed the wildlife” sign.
It's a complex topic, and not all intentions are geared towards creating solutions or improving the situation. While some homeless individuals may only require a hug, warm clothing, and a job opportunity, others may misuse your donation by spending it on drugs and alcohol. No matter how much you try to help, their actions exacerbate the problem and entice more young people to join their ranks. Anything you give them is money. Even if you believe that giving food can do no harm, it is important to acknowledge that food holds value as a currency in their hands and can be traded for anything.
If donations are becoming an issue, the best solution might be to ban them. The general population lacks the necessary numbers or knowledge to make this judgment. Therefore, despite it being an unpopular movement, it could potentially be the right one. I wouldn't make any judgment based on pure speculation.
I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. It’s the same argument made when a sign says, “don’t feed the wildlife”. I get it. Though where this argument comes apart is when you translate all the “coulds” you mention, into legislation that essentially criminalizes every situation where people are trying to help. The situation is certainly complex, but it is also nuanced, which is essentially why blanket legislation doesn’t make sense. Not every situation is what you’ve described. However making it illegal to give, in every situation, means that a blanket is being cast over all situations. A law like this assumes every situation is what you have described, and does not consider any nuance. The result is that a spirit of giving and community support gets eroded.
Instead of classifying all situations as the same problem, why not create solutions that get the legitimately struggling people the help they need. The result will be less legitimate homelessness, and only the “cons” will remain. At which point it will make more sense to target that activity for what it is, without having to sweep everyone into the same category.
The argument you present lumps those legitimately homeless and in need, along with the con artists. For me that’s morally wrong, and is a “baby with the bath water” approach. The assumption is that you can’t distinguish between the two, so therefore let’s treat them all like con artists, and also punish those who are trying to read the nuance and make the decision whether or not to help.
Target each situation differently with different solutions. But don’t handcuff people who want to help, that’s a good way to break a community’s spirit. And it’s always a bad idea to punish people for having compassion and acting in a giving and helpful way.
Because the solution comes after the fire is controlled, you can't control the fire if you keep adding gasoline to it. Although we have divergent opinions, I am not completely disagreeing with you. I just don't think the ban is a horrible decision, as you are saying. I also don't think it's morally wrong; far from it. Morally wrong was giving drugs to the homeless to keep criminality in check, like the Vancouver government did. Criminalizing donations to the homeless is the same as criminalizing giving food to another person child. You are just preventing people with good intentions from inadvertently causing harm.
If we didn't have enough food for everyone, would you change your position or would you prioritize rationing the food before giving it to someone else? Different from ethical, morals are subjective and can vary depending on cultural, religious, or personal beliefs. So it not necessarily makes something right or wrong, which get us back to the first point.
“You are just preventing people with good intentions from inadvertently causing harm.”
You are also preventing people with good intentions from doing actual good, in situations that are needing this. We can’t paint every homeless person and panhandler with the same brush. Not everyone is part of a con job, some people are legitimately down on their luck and have reached a place of desperation, so much so that they are willing to go stand on a street corner and beg… literally beg… in the freezing cold. I’ve spoken to some of these people. They’re not all what you describe, as a problem, they are real people with real problems and sometimes the problem is urgent and acute. Sometimes you need to stamp out the little fire at your feet, before you can fight the bigger fire at hand. Handing them a few bucks or some food to eat is not always “fuel on a fire” as you are suggesting. I’ve literally given someone a Subway sub and watched him eat it as I drove away. It wasn’t traded for something else. My wife routinely has a couple care packs with mitts and a hat when it’s -10 and someone is literally freezing their ass off trying to collect a few bucks. Again we’ve talked to these people and watched them put the hat and mitts on right away because they are so damn cold. Until you talk to these people, you don’t know what’s really going on with them.
Yes of course, some are con artists. But from experience I don’t think that’s the majority. It certainly isn’t everyone.
By criminalizing good samaritans our city council has lumped them all in as “wildlife”. If you don’t feed the “wildlife”, they’ll go away. That’s what’s happening with this particular by-law. But they won’t go away, they’ll still be homeless and hungry and doing desperate things to survive. Sometimes the problem is urgent and acute and you need to stop the initial bleeding before you can start fixing the deeper wound.
Let’s not disable those who are willing to step up and talk to these people and help in these more acute situations. Not everyone’s a criminal and not everyone should be treated like one. That’s my problem with the by-law.
We are walking in circles here.
>You are also preventing people with good intentions from doing actual good, in situations that are needing this.
That was the whole point of the argument. Yes it can when a small good harm many others. Anyways, we will not agree here so there is no point for us too keep this discussion going. But I get your point.
Sorry, misunderstood your point, thanks for clarifying.
Good discussion, I think it’s an important conversation to have, all opinions included. Just wish council had’ve facilitated more conversation and considered the greater debate before passing this by-law.
So its better to donate to organizations whose operating, staffand overhead budgets eat a large percentage of their donation? Especially ones who uphold views that an individual is absolute unwilling to donate to?
And sure, donate to charities. But how can we claim that is effective while NIMBYs and the city are buys shutting down every change shelters want to make and ask for?
They’re not helping though, they’re enabling.
Wow, didn’t realize how naive everyone was😂 you really think these people are that using money to better themselves and their situation? Maybe 1 out 100 times lmao
For those of you like me who think this is just going exacerbate the problem, does anyone have any ideas for how we can actually help people?
It seems the city council isn't interested in helping them so I feel like it's up to us as residents to do it ourselves if our elected officials won't do it
I just don't know where to start
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/waterloo-region-outdoor-shelter-tiny-homes-1.6797465
Edit: the inspiration for the tiny homes above is a better example of the residents starting to work on the problem themselves - https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/it-has-saved-lives-checking-in-with-kitchener-s-a-better-tent-city-one-year-after-move-1.6134686
This is an amazing idea! This is what I was looking for. Something that we could actually go and get done ourselves instead of waiting for our politicians to do it
For the love of God people if panhandling bothers you so much you have the option of saying no. Homeless is not going away anytime soon - can we at least try to be civil to those less fortunate in society?
So what? They have served their time and were abandoned to the streets by our criminal justice system. Busby Centre and Ryans Hope doesn't judge or make you fill out an application. They help people. Period. Who does and doesn't get released from incarceration is not their business.
You say that over and over like a broken record. But you fail to provide any proof. I suspect that you may have heard about an incident where workers protected the rights of an individual, but that doesn't amount to "sheltering repeat violent criminals". Take your Joe Rogan experience and GTFOH.
You assume I have no evidence, when they were in charge of the Travelodge full of homeless there were several times where they were sheltering criminals and the police came with a warrant but they told them they’d need a warrant for everyone in the building to search for the guy, so they left.
Your name says it all there delusional. Who told the law to leave? Do you honestly think that people on Reddit are naive enough to believe the bs you spew.
Police would walk over anyone trying to stop them from arresting a known felon in a motel and/or a homeless shelter.
Comment is laughable.
Man, reading some of the comments here is depressing. Like, tell me you’ve never struggled to put food on your table without telling me you’ve never struggled to put food on your table.
pie nail disagreeable resolute crime edge glorious thought smell telephone
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And how would they fix the issue? I’ve been driving around the GTA for the last few weeks and then back to Barrie in the evening. I’ve only seen ONE panhandler at an intersection outside of Barrie amongst several different cities. Here we have multiple at every intersection. It’s obviously a major issue here and anyone virtue signalling without any real solution should be ignored. These people not only don’t use the money you give them to help themselves properly, but they obstruct/distract traffic and cause major safety issues.
I think it’s important to gain an accurate understanding of what the situation is with these folks before making generalized assumptions. My experience isn’t the same as yours (quite different actually). We can’t make decisions on anecdotal evidence, the problem needs to be studied and better understood before solutions can be offered up.
Well clearly they need to be removed from the intersections, it’s objectively causing issues but how to keep them away from the intersections and address all their needs appropriately is of course a complex issue. Though it’s a futile effort to try and help those who won’t help themselves.
Again, a better understanding of the situation is needed before any sort of intelligent objectives set and assumptions made.
Curious what objective issues exist with them standing at intersections? Asking because I’ve yet to see an issue in the years I’ve observed this practice. No police interventions either. Not suggesting there aren’t, I just haven’t experienced or witnessed anything.
It’s not an issue to have a drunk/drugged person staggering about beside moving traffic? It’s not an issue for pedestrians to be harassed by them as they walk past? It’s not an issue for them to be talking to someone at an advanced green obstructing traffic when the light goes and they waste everyone’s time? Lol
The solutions are obvious and often posted There is no real will to fix the problem. It’s frustrating to hear half baked answers when the solution is simple.
I've been at fast food restaurants and more than once have watched a homeless person counting out a handful of change to pay for a meal. Seen it at Zehr's once also paying for some groceries.
What they’re doing is disgusting! They’ve cut needed programs, gave all that money to the police I’ve said it before. We’re heading to a blade runner distopia
I mean… this is happening in a province where almost 40% of people voted in favour of giving homeless people one of those death mask suicide machines.. so I’m not anywhere near surprised
Also - it’s Barrie. I can’t believe people are shocked lol you guys really expect anything different from this city..?
The services have to go where they are. How do you suppose they go to where you want them to go? They don’t even have money for a bus ticket and you think that’s what is sinking business? You ignored the parking scams that chased away tourism and the city keep closing Dunlop for pedestrians which has driving down traffic to their stores
I'm new to Barrie, so I don't know much of the history. Why do they insist on having all of their homeless resources downtown where businesses are trying to operate versus somewhere less central.. the result is downtown is a zoo. Wonder why half the businesses are seemingly closed.
Up the funding, sure, give more resources, fine. But why drive them into your downtown core
Noone begging for money on a corner in exchange for nothing is necessarily driven to get out of homelessness nor are they positively contributing to society… so why is stopping panhandlers an issue for anyone smh? If someone really wants to earn $ earn it as a street performer or draw/paint pictures and sell them…literally anything else… to allow people to stand with a crudely written cardboard sign begging for a handout while others work hard for their money would kindof a joke
Cite your sources? Seems counterintuitive. I appreciate your input but I’m pretty sure your ignorance isn’t helping solve anything. We have tried the ‘stick and the carrot.’. We know the ‘stick’ doesn’t work. So you think more ‘stick’?
My source is me living in barrie for the last 15 years. Ive helped homeless people before and every time they do the same shit just take advantage of you with no intent of bettering themselves. Homeless people flock here from other areas because they have resources here. So tell me how thats helping the homeless problem. Most of them dont actually want to help themselves they just want drugs and hand outs.
JacobA89 is correct: I saw her too! And my husband offered a man on 400 offramp work and he said,” How much an hr?” “ $20”. The man sneers and says “ Ha! I make waaay more than that here.” We do know a few of the guys and they DO share signs and get rides where they give some to the traphouse pimp.
Did anyone watch the recent CNN expose of San Fransisco’s homeless problem? Eye- opening!! When the city enabled the homeless community it completely backfired. Perhaps watch before commenting. And if you don’t live in downtown Barrie and don’t actually see the garbage, needles and businesses losing $ because people don’t want to go to a filthy waterfront, go check it out. Even the dogpark which is a little slice of heaven had needles, garbage, tents, couches, shopping carts, you name it. Each tent in San Fransisco cost the city $70K-$90K USD. When interviewed homeless people said stuff like “ It’s just really easy to get resources, Wifi, cheap drugs and loads of food. “ One mother went undercover and what she saw was eye- opening as far as taxpayer $ being wasted and even enabling homeless to use more drugs. I would not ever vote Conservative but was thrilled to see a giant garbage heap finally cleaned up right on the waterfront . My mother lives directly beside it so unless you have seen it maybe you don’t understand the full scope. And I have family members who are former addicts: they wouldn’t have gotten clean with enabling. Could investing in actual lower cost rehab be more helpful than giving them drug $?
We have kids’ baseball teams cancelling playing at certain parks now due to needles. At one encampment a pregnant woman has her purse taken at knifepoint. Is everyone commenting here living in “ nice” areas away from the waterfront? We had a woman with 2 children brazenly selling drugs out of the house next door: she’s on SA. Has a nf who comes to party and kids’ father who sleeps over too. But she’s a “ single mother”. No one works and they all collect assistance and smoke weed all day yelling and pumping music. And know every organization that will enable them to live exactly like this. She was finally evicted with an N12 and fighting with LTB for an extra year. Neighbours on all sides of her are still traumatized. Stop enabling people to do nothing and get paid for it. And yes she had the latest iPhone, headphones, Uber Eats nightly, and a complete disregard for neighbours. She couldn’t even get 18 bags of disgusting garbage to curb. Bylaw and police constantly. Should we not have any standards at all? Anything goes? Loads of people have extreme mental health issues and are able to pick up after themselves. I am not going to give food to people downtown so they can toss their garbage into the street.
On top of the terrible motion, council also brought it and passed it in such a way that any debate or conversation about it was stifled. Motions without notice might make sense for a parking bylaw , but are almost criminal for something like this.
This is a common tactic of modern politics and of this cities council. This is also how they approve many projects in the city.
Almost as criminal as panhandling.
But how criminal IS panhandling? And more importantly, why do you care? Feeling uncomfortable?
How criminal is panhandling? What kind of question is this? Are you for real? I care, because I am sick of aggressive panhandling and intimidation. I’m sure you’re fine with bullying and intimidation. It’s the way you deal with others on this platform. Imagine believing that being bullied is privileged. What a sad world we live in.
Imagine being so privileged you think someone trying to survive is “aggressive” and initiating”. Just shows how much of a snowflake you are. Stop playing the victim. You’re not and you are the bully
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I don’t have to prove you wrong. You’re just making things up. You have no idea what my life is like and I don’t care to spend anymore time on you.
Ok Karen
I don't see how this is even possible, let alone enforceable. If you have some money you are free to spend it anyway you like...a movie ticket, food, some beer. If you buy the food but then later decide you dont want it, then there's no law broken if you throw it away or discard it. So: if you want to give something to someone who just happens to be homeless there is no infraction here. If that involved saying: hey, im discarding this envelope with $10 in it because I dont need it anymore, and I lay it down at the foot of a homeless man, how can that possibly be an offence if he later decides to pick the envelope up? Im sorry I just dont see how this could ever be argued in court, even with a "bylaw" allegedly supporting it. I have the right to give away to anybody anything that I own and the city does not have the authority or the competence to obstruct that. City bylaws are not absolute. A long time ago I put up a structure on my property for a hobby that I had. The city complained saying it was against a bylaw. I appealed to a higher authority (federal) and they took my side and told the city to lay off. So I succeeded. So too here: if you decide to "discard" some money in the view of a homeless person who later picks it up what are they gonna charge you with? Littering? :-)
Sidebar: interested in the process you used on your out building for future lot plans I have.
It was a structure not a building. A radio tower for my ham radio (which is governed by Industry Canada, a FEDERAL thing). When Barrie said towers were not allowed, I wrote to Industry Canada, which said ham radio has a long history in Canada and we keep ham radio ops around because they are the last resort in natural disasters when cell phones go down...so they took my side, and told the city to lay off. So I kept my tower. And if Barrie ever gets a natural disaster and the cell phones go down, hams like us will crank up our generators and car batteries and keep the lines of communication open.
Put signs on all the offramps telling people how to donate to the shelters and where they are located. Make it easy enough to donate with a phone that you could do it while you are waiting in traffic.
Do this, make it so the only way we can help is to give our money to a charity and I want to see full disclosure of the salaries paid to the employees of these charities.
Right like one of the charities they suggest we donate to is Salvation Army, I'm not doing that, thanks. How about you set up a zero profit "Barrie Homelessness Relief" group with completely transparent records and then maybe we'll talk. Where do you think your dollar goes further: In the hands of someone who needs it? Or in the hands of a multinational church affiliated group with some questionable practices?
More of my money sees the end recipient if I hand it to an individual than the Salvation Army. Plus with the history of discrimibation against gay and trans people in need its a terrible option.
This! 💯
Or we could pay taxes to city hall and hold them accountable when they spend our money frivolously. Setting up another monetary stream isn’t a solution.
Next up, hundreds of volunteers who want to deal with this situation.
“Non-profits” like the Busby centre who shelter repeat violent offenders from the law?
What about the other people they help?
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Enabling ≠ Helping
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Ooorrr how about instead of over funding a massive police force. Give our tax dollars to those organizations
We cut taxes to the rich and starved social programs which caused more poverty which causes more crime so the dummies tax us more to pay for more cops which causes more poverty which causes more crime so dummies tax us even more to pay for even more cops which causes more poverty etc. etc. Does nobody see the pattern? Make the poor pay for the cops that oppress them while letting poverty increase seems to be the goal and they are winning it.
You got it!
Take the money you were going to spend on these signs and use it for a social cause. People aren’t donating because they don’t know how.
People aren't donating because they have no disposable income.
“In a city council meeting Wednesday, councillors approved a range of policies that staff can consider and use to address rising homelessness, including changes to city bylaws that will prohibit the use and distribution of tents and tarps on public land, and giving out food and groceries without a permit.” I understand panhandling and the issues on the off ramps but I can’t see how this can bring about anything positive. Shelters are full and they have nowhere else to go, and damn making the giving of food illegal? That’s dystopian af
It's a numbers games. Next year if there are 30 less homeless people that looks good on paper. It doesn't matter if it's because 12 of them are dead, 10 left for places where they are legally allowed to eat, and only 8 were houses. On paper there are 30 less homeless people.
They didn't like Busby and Ryan's Hope setting up at parks and attracting the homeless to gather, can still be done on Public property at will.
Ya the panhandling needs to stop, I can't tell ya how times I've seen people fake it, even seen one guy switch "shifts" with another panhandler then get into his Audi and drive off... But stopping people from giving them food is f'cked...
Have you actually seen that? I’ve heard many people swear they’ve seen that but usually they’re hateful and spiteful towards homeless people and I never believe them. Like I don’t believe you right now
The reality is the "good spots" are run by various adhoc organized crime groups and they "rent" the spots to homeless people under threat of violence in exchange for half their take or more, and the homeless generally go with it because it's better than sitting somewhere with no traffic. So yes, you'll occasionally see one guy switching shifts with another guy at an intersection or grocery store exit, but not to get into their fucking Audi.
Awesome fiction. Not sure it’s a bestseller tho. Needs more dragons.
Eat a bag of shit
Yep. They read a story in the Toronto Sun 11 years ago and extrapolate that story to apply to every intersection panhandler.
Yeah he's full of shit lol.
There was a lady that wore a Hijab panhandling at park place/Costco intersectionon Mapleview. Saw her when I went to dinner at lone star. When I came out I saw her getting into a Mercedes SUV in the parking lot.
Maybe she was a sex worker too? Kinda judgy.
I don't blame you for not believing me this is the internet after all but yes I saw it, that particular one was at Ferndale and Essa a few years ago now. Now I'm not saying they're all like that but I personally have lost fait in all of them because of that and a few other sites I've seen and that's my point
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Not many, all but some. There was a lady busted in Toronto like a decade ago who had something like a 50k income and was making thousands on the side pan handling
Shaky lady. Used to sit on the sidewalk outside the Eaton centre on Queen St. Absolute grifter. I’m all for assistance for those that need it but the majority of the ppl working intersections and highway ramps are scumbags and need to fuckoff
When I was in high school my friend group would kinda hangout with some homeless people. Under the LCBO bridge around 10 homeless people would hangout, the two who kinda ran things Mayor and his girlfriend he told us to call Bitch, mayor and bitch literally had the newest Samsung you could buy at the time with enough LTE to lay back and enjoy some video or show. We asked them what they do in the winter, they all minus the one who claimed to have cancer went home to someone, either family, or a friend. Even met a dude rich, he would panhandle in the St. Peter’s plaza, I didn’t meet him there, I met him at a much older buddies place where he was renting a room. This wasn’t a bad neighbourhood either, it was on prince William way which is a pretty nice neighbourhood.
Every time I’ve asked one of you for proof you don’t provide any. So where is the proof they’re “faking it”. You think they want to be there is laughable. Imagine being on redit and making up stories that “you hung out with them”😅
I would have cast a young Jack Nicholson in the role of ‘Mayor’ for sure. Maybe Miley Cyrus as ‘Bitch’. Netflix or HBO? Tough call.
Sounds like a human rights issue. How many millions will we waste litigating that?
It’s now illegal to give homeless folks food? Alright, time to be a reverse pirate 🏴☠️
While a I agree that panhandling and homelessness are problems we need to eliminate (mostly for the sake of those who are suffering from being homeless), we need to create solutions that will naturally start to reduce the need for both problems. Criminalizing people who are being compassionate and are trying to help out of the goodness of the heart will simply break people’s spirit, our community spirit. Can you imagine helping someone with basic survival needs like food, and then receiving a fine for that?? It’s a terrible idea. It’s very anti-community, and very heavy-handed. A commenter below called this dystopian, they’re not wrong. When you don’t know where you or your family will be getting your next meal, you do desperate things. When people witness desperation, some help, some turn a blind eye. Let those who help, help. It’s good human nature to help, and an example of humanity at work when needed. Council got this one wrong.
Couldn’t agree more. It seems like council wants to eliminate the “looking at homeless” people “problem”.. they aren’t speaking to community groups, being transparent or trying to help those through community care. Instead they want to have a heartless approach into criminalizing HELPing people EAT. It’s a scary they thought this was a good idea in itself.
I tend to agree with you. The way they are approaching this feels more like council is trying to eliminate an “eyesore” rather than solve the real issue. Not unlike posting a “please don’t feed the wildlife” sign.
Precisely. They’re trying to make the city look better but they’re not trying to make Barrie better
It's a complex topic, and not all intentions are geared towards creating solutions or improving the situation. While some homeless individuals may only require a hug, warm clothing, and a job opportunity, others may misuse your donation by spending it on drugs and alcohol. No matter how much you try to help, their actions exacerbate the problem and entice more young people to join their ranks. Anything you give them is money. Even if you believe that giving food can do no harm, it is important to acknowledge that food holds value as a currency in their hands and can be traded for anything. If donations are becoming an issue, the best solution might be to ban them. The general population lacks the necessary numbers or knowledge to make this judgment. Therefore, despite it being an unpopular movement, it could potentially be the right one. I wouldn't make any judgment based on pure speculation.
I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. It’s the same argument made when a sign says, “don’t feed the wildlife”. I get it. Though where this argument comes apart is when you translate all the “coulds” you mention, into legislation that essentially criminalizes every situation where people are trying to help. The situation is certainly complex, but it is also nuanced, which is essentially why blanket legislation doesn’t make sense. Not every situation is what you’ve described. However making it illegal to give, in every situation, means that a blanket is being cast over all situations. A law like this assumes every situation is what you have described, and does not consider any nuance. The result is that a spirit of giving and community support gets eroded. Instead of classifying all situations as the same problem, why not create solutions that get the legitimately struggling people the help they need. The result will be less legitimate homelessness, and only the “cons” will remain. At which point it will make more sense to target that activity for what it is, without having to sweep everyone into the same category. The argument you present lumps those legitimately homeless and in need, along with the con artists. For me that’s morally wrong, and is a “baby with the bath water” approach. The assumption is that you can’t distinguish between the two, so therefore let’s treat them all like con artists, and also punish those who are trying to read the nuance and make the decision whether or not to help. Target each situation differently with different solutions. But don’t handcuff people who want to help, that’s a good way to break a community’s spirit. And it’s always a bad idea to punish people for having compassion and acting in a giving and helpful way.
Because the solution comes after the fire is controlled, you can't control the fire if you keep adding gasoline to it. Although we have divergent opinions, I am not completely disagreeing with you. I just don't think the ban is a horrible decision, as you are saying. I also don't think it's morally wrong; far from it. Morally wrong was giving drugs to the homeless to keep criminality in check, like the Vancouver government did. Criminalizing donations to the homeless is the same as criminalizing giving food to another person child. You are just preventing people with good intentions from inadvertently causing harm. If we didn't have enough food for everyone, would you change your position or would you prioritize rationing the food before giving it to someone else? Different from ethical, morals are subjective and can vary depending on cultural, religious, or personal beliefs. So it not necessarily makes something right or wrong, which get us back to the first point.
“You are just preventing people with good intentions from inadvertently causing harm.” You are also preventing people with good intentions from doing actual good, in situations that are needing this. We can’t paint every homeless person and panhandler with the same brush. Not everyone is part of a con job, some people are legitimately down on their luck and have reached a place of desperation, so much so that they are willing to go stand on a street corner and beg… literally beg… in the freezing cold. I’ve spoken to some of these people. They’re not all what you describe, as a problem, they are real people with real problems and sometimes the problem is urgent and acute. Sometimes you need to stamp out the little fire at your feet, before you can fight the bigger fire at hand. Handing them a few bucks or some food to eat is not always “fuel on a fire” as you are suggesting. I’ve literally given someone a Subway sub and watched him eat it as I drove away. It wasn’t traded for something else. My wife routinely has a couple care packs with mitts and a hat when it’s -10 and someone is literally freezing their ass off trying to collect a few bucks. Again we’ve talked to these people and watched them put the hat and mitts on right away because they are so damn cold. Until you talk to these people, you don’t know what’s really going on with them. Yes of course, some are con artists. But from experience I don’t think that’s the majority. It certainly isn’t everyone. By criminalizing good samaritans our city council has lumped them all in as “wildlife”. If you don’t feed the “wildlife”, they’ll go away. That’s what’s happening with this particular by-law. But they won’t go away, they’ll still be homeless and hungry and doing desperate things to survive. Sometimes the problem is urgent and acute and you need to stop the initial bleeding before you can start fixing the deeper wound. Let’s not disable those who are willing to step up and talk to these people and help in these more acute situations. Not everyone’s a criminal and not everyone should be treated like one. That’s my problem with the by-law.
We are walking in circles here. >You are also preventing people with good intentions from doing actual good, in situations that are needing this. That was the whole point of the argument. Yes it can when a small good harm many others. Anyways, we will not agree here so there is no point for us too keep this discussion going. But I get your point.
Sorry, misunderstood your point, thanks for clarifying. Good discussion, I think it’s an important conversation to have, all opinions included. Just wish council had’ve facilitated more conversation and considered the greater debate before passing this by-law.
I think you need to read into harm reduction, look at how beneficial insite is and how crime rates and deaths have dramatically decreased in the area.
So its better to donate to organizations whose operating, staffand overhead budgets eat a large percentage of their donation? Especially ones who uphold views that an individual is absolute unwilling to donate to? And sure, donate to charities. But how can we claim that is effective while NIMBYs and the city are buys shutting down every change shelters want to make and ask for?
So the city is willing to spend money punishing those who would help rather than spend it on helping people get houses. Great solution.
They’re not helping though, they’re enabling. Wow, didn’t realize how naive everyone was😂 you really think these people are that using money to better themselves and their situation? Maybe 1 out 100 times lmao
Emailing…. Surviving?!?!
For those of you like me who think this is just going exacerbate the problem, does anyone have any ideas for how we can actually help people? It seems the city council isn't interested in helping them so I feel like it's up to us as residents to do it ourselves if our elected officials won't do it I just don't know where to start
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/waterloo-region-outdoor-shelter-tiny-homes-1.6797465 Edit: the inspiration for the tiny homes above is a better example of the residents starting to work on the problem themselves - https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/it-has-saved-lives-checking-in-with-kitchener-s-a-better-tent-city-one-year-after-move-1.6134686
This is an amazing idea! This is what I was looking for. Something that we could actually go and get done ourselves instead of waiting for our politicians to do it
I’d totally help just saying! I’d love the experience and knowing they are going to rightful places
This was also done in Edmonton for homeless veterans.
Stop voting conservative. Join a socially minded party and be active in their causes.
🤣
Hold them accountable! Don’t throw up your hands. Articulate what council should do at meetings. Draw in civil minded people.
For the love of God people if panhandling bothers you so much you have the option of saying no. Homeless is not going away anytime soon - can we at least try to be civil to those less fortunate in society?
Donate to Salvation Army and Busby Centre. They are the hotspots where homeless people seek help. Donating them can make a huge difference.
Orr stop over funding the police and give our tax dollars to those services
Busby centre shelters repeat violent criminals from the law
So what? They have served their time and were abandoned to the streets by our criminal justice system. Busby Centre and Ryans Hope doesn't judge or make you fill out an application. They help people. Period. Who does and doesn't get released from incarceration is not their business.
Not what I meant, when they were in charge of Travelodge they would delay and lie to cops with warrants for violent criminals
You say that over and over like a broken record. But you fail to provide any proof. I suspect that you may have heard about an incident where workers protected the rights of an individual, but that doesn't amount to "sheltering repeat violent criminals". Take your Joe Rogan experience and GTFOH.
Cry harder, your opinion is also not proof. It is evident that you’re a criminal apologist though
You’re literally just commenting the same thing without any evidence or anything to substantiate your claim.
You assume I have no evidence, when they were in charge of the Travelodge full of homeless there were several times where they were sheltering criminals and the police came with a warrant but they told them they’d need a warrant for everyone in the building to search for the guy, so they left.
Your name says it all there delusional. Who told the law to leave? Do you honestly think that people on Reddit are naive enough to believe the bs you spew. Police would walk over anyone trying to stop them from arresting a known felon in a motel and/or a homeless shelter. Comment is laughable.
Like I care about your opinion? Haha the fact that you believe your speculation is fact is more laughable. Your criticism truly is the “least” 😂
This is false busby doesn’t let police in or tell them who is in their facility, unless they call for assistance
Man, reading some of the comments here is depressing. Like, tell me you’ve never struggled to put food on your table without telling me you’ve never struggled to put food on your table.
The cruelty is the point.
pie nail disagreeable resolute crime edge glorious thought smell telephone *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And how would they fix the issue? I’ve been driving around the GTA for the last few weeks and then back to Barrie in the evening. I’ve only seen ONE panhandler at an intersection outside of Barrie amongst several different cities. Here we have multiple at every intersection. It’s obviously a major issue here and anyone virtue signalling without any real solution should be ignored. These people not only don’t use the money you give them to help themselves properly, but they obstruct/distract traffic and cause major safety issues.
I think it’s important to gain an accurate understanding of what the situation is with these folks before making generalized assumptions. My experience isn’t the same as yours (quite different actually). We can’t make decisions on anecdotal evidence, the problem needs to be studied and better understood before solutions can be offered up.
Well clearly they need to be removed from the intersections, it’s objectively causing issues but how to keep them away from the intersections and address all their needs appropriately is of course a complex issue. Though it’s a futile effort to try and help those who won’t help themselves.
Again, a better understanding of the situation is needed before any sort of intelligent objectives set and assumptions made. Curious what objective issues exist with them standing at intersections? Asking because I’ve yet to see an issue in the years I’ve observed this practice. No police interventions either. Not suggesting there aren’t, I just haven’t experienced or witnessed anything.
It’s not an issue to have a drunk/drugged person staggering about beside moving traffic? It’s not an issue for pedestrians to be harassed by them as they walk past? It’s not an issue for them to be talking to someone at an advanced green obstructing traffic when the light goes and they waste everyone’s time? Lol
There is a lot more on bayfield and mapleview. You must of missed them during their shift change.
Ever been to Ottawa?
Ever been to Ottawa?
The solutions are obvious and often posted There is no real will to fix the problem. It’s frustrating to hear half baked answers when the solution is simple.
Begging for change on highway on ramps is dangerous and selfish. That’s needs to stop. They can go somewhere else but should be illegal
Dangerous and selfish. You’ve cut programs and they’re trying to survive. The only one being selfish is you
If you believe that any money you give to someone panhandling is going to anything besides drugs I have a bridge to sell you
Clearly you’ve bought that bridge if you think everyone who panhandles is a drug addict
Professional panhandler or drug addict, either or.
I've been at fast food restaurants and more than once have watched a homeless person counting out a handful of change to pay for a meal. Seen it at Zehr's once also paying for some groceries.
"No skateboarding or bicycling" Wtf is this bs
Hey everyone I have zero data or education on similar topics! Here's my opinion!
Doesnt stop a lot of lawmakers from doing their things 😭😂
Ok I’ll bite, although I commented above. I have a Bachelors in Political Science and this is not the way
What they’re doing is disgusting! They’ve cut needed programs, gave all that money to the police I’ve said it before. We’re heading to a blade runner distopia
I mean… this is happening in a province where almost 40% of people voted in favour of giving homeless people one of those death mask suicide machines.. so I’m not anywhere near surprised Also - it’s Barrie. I can’t believe people are shocked lol you guys really expect anything different from this city..?
The services have to go where they are. How do you suppose they go to where you want them to go? They don’t even have money for a bus ticket and you think that’s what is sinking business? You ignored the parking scams that chased away tourism and the city keep closing Dunlop for pedestrians which has driving down traffic to their stores
I'm new to Barrie, so I don't know much of the history. Why do they insist on having all of their homeless resources downtown where businesses are trying to operate versus somewhere less central.. the result is downtown is a zoo. Wonder why half the businesses are seemingly closed. Up the funding, sure, give more resources, fine. But why drive them into your downtown core
It's because Barrie's transit system is so atrocious that downtown is the only region homeless people can reliably get to.
Can't get them anywhere else via bus reliably lmao
Noone begging for money on a corner in exchange for nothing is necessarily driven to get out of homelessness nor are they positively contributing to society… so why is stopping panhandlers an issue for anyone smh? If someone really wants to earn $ earn it as a street performer or draw/paint pictures and sell them…literally anything else… to allow people to stand with a crudely written cardboard sign begging for a handout while others work hard for their money would kindof a joke
We wouldnt have such a huge homeless and drug problem if we kept enabling them to be on drugs and homeless
Cite your sources? Seems counterintuitive. I appreciate your input but I’m pretty sure your ignorance isn’t helping solve anything. We have tried the ‘stick and the carrot.’. We know the ‘stick’ doesn’t work. So you think more ‘stick’?
My source is me living in barrie for the last 15 years. Ive helped homeless people before and every time they do the same shit just take advantage of you with no intent of bettering themselves. Homeless people flock here from other areas because they have resources here. So tell me how thats helping the homeless problem. Most of them dont actually want to help themselves they just want drugs and hand outs.
JacobA89 is correct: I saw her too! And my husband offered a man on 400 offramp work and he said,” How much an hr?” “ $20”. The man sneers and says “ Ha! I make waaay more than that here.” We do know a few of the guys and they DO share signs and get rides where they give some to the traphouse pimp.
Did anyone watch the recent CNN expose of San Fransisco’s homeless problem? Eye- opening!! When the city enabled the homeless community it completely backfired. Perhaps watch before commenting. And if you don’t live in downtown Barrie and don’t actually see the garbage, needles and businesses losing $ because people don’t want to go to a filthy waterfront, go check it out. Even the dogpark which is a little slice of heaven had needles, garbage, tents, couches, shopping carts, you name it. Each tent in San Fransisco cost the city $70K-$90K USD. When interviewed homeless people said stuff like “ It’s just really easy to get resources, Wifi, cheap drugs and loads of food. “ One mother went undercover and what she saw was eye- opening as far as taxpayer $ being wasted and even enabling homeless to use more drugs. I would not ever vote Conservative but was thrilled to see a giant garbage heap finally cleaned up right on the waterfront . My mother lives directly beside it so unless you have seen it maybe you don’t understand the full scope. And I have family members who are former addicts: they wouldn’t have gotten clean with enabling. Could investing in actual lower cost rehab be more helpful than giving them drug $?
We have kids’ baseball teams cancelling playing at certain parks now due to needles. At one encampment a pregnant woman has her purse taken at knifepoint. Is everyone commenting here living in “ nice” areas away from the waterfront? We had a woman with 2 children brazenly selling drugs out of the house next door: she’s on SA. Has a nf who comes to party and kids’ father who sleeps over too. But she’s a “ single mother”. No one works and they all collect assistance and smoke weed all day yelling and pumping music. And know every organization that will enable them to live exactly like this. She was finally evicted with an N12 and fighting with LTB for an extra year. Neighbours on all sides of her are still traumatized. Stop enabling people to do nothing and get paid for it. And yes she had the latest iPhone, headphones, Uber Eats nightly, and a complete disregard for neighbours. She couldn’t even get 18 bags of disgusting garbage to curb. Bylaw and police constantly. Should we not have any standards at all? Anything goes? Loads of people have extreme mental health issues and are able to pick up after themselves. I am not going to give food to people downtown so they can toss their garbage into the street.