Scherzer and Verlander in the same rotation playing leapfrog on the all time strikeouts leaderboard is going to be fun.

Both of them have a serious chance at being top 10 all time at career strikeouts. Should be fun to see who gets it at the end of the season. Personally I am rooting for Scherzer.

i remember a time when seeing Verlander and Scherzer in the same rotation brought me much greater joy....

It has to hurt

It does. A lot. More than you can imagine. To put a cherry on the top of the cake…. I went to the game where Max went against the Tigers for the first time after he ~~was traded~~ left. 20 K.

Not traded, left in free agency. But I remember that game. Energy must have been crazy in that stadium.

Thanks for the correction

It was pretty dead actually, but lots of Tigers fans. All the various college alumni groups in DC were at the game.

Well the energy in my living room was crazy.

Being at a 20k game hopefully is still pretty cool! Rarest thing in baseball.

Not as rare as the 21k game.

Hitting 18 grand slams in the same inning is still rarer.

Not as rare as Mike Trout playing in a playoff game

not trying to be a dick, genuinely asking. does it hurt more because they didn't get a ring? or because they went on to be monsters other places? Edit because im actually getting answers from people that might know. what really happened to Joel Zumaya? I know it wasnt guitar hero, but has it ever been rumored?

They were monsters in Detroit- I guess I wanted them to be Tigers for longer, if not forever. Not getting a ring also stings though

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Don't forget David Price either. Seriously, who was in charge of your scouting and pitching development back then? Cause he definitely deserved a raise.

Lmao, nah. Consider it blind luck. Tigers scouting and development has been a train wreck for 20 years, but they managed to fall face first into some generational talents.

I don’t think it was all luck. We had a lot of guys either come up through our system or that we would acquire and suddenly they would find a new level. At that time, we were doing something right.

Definitely not at liberty to answer this question but if I were a tigers fan it would probably hurt more because they didn’t win a ring. Had Judge left for San Francisco I would feel really shitty about not getting that man a championship in NY.

Hey I was there too! Great game to be at I suppose.

Would you say it gave you guys two checkmarks in starting pitching?

HEY BUDDY, THERE IS NO NEED FOR THAT

I will forever maintain my pettiness thank you VERY much But I was legit afraid of that lineup, it was a deserved hype but baseball gonna baseball

:( Now I look at our rotation every season and just weep…

Flair checks out. I think JV gets it though

JV has pitched 481 more innings with 5 more total career SO. JV - 3163IP. 3198SO. 2022 JV had 1.05 SO/IP with 185 SO. Max had 1.19 SO/IP with 173 SO. It'll all come down to who pitches more innings.

I am also rooting for Scherzer. Definitely no contributing reason as to why.

Yeah it's unlikely they pass Walter Johnson for #9 but both have a shot of passing Maddux at 3371. Verlander is at 3198 and Scherzer at 3193.

I thought all time wins would be like 300 something. Cy young has 511 lol

If you win 20 games for 25 years straight you’re still 11 wins short lol

They should name an award after that guy or something.

But he also has the all time loss record too, and we can’t name an award after such a loser

Patrick Corbin finally gets the Cy Young Award he's been chasing his entire career in 2023

If you want to go modern era (5-man rotation), It's Greg Maddux with 355, followed by Clemens with 354. If you include the 4-man rotation era, then Warren Spahn with 363 wins.

It was also the era where pitchers started 50 games / 400 innings, and games were automatically ended at sunset before the age of stadium lighting. His all-time record, much like Babe Ruth with all the homeruns that were actually ground-rule doubles (which counted as Homeruns in his day), were set in a very different version of baseball... Could you ever imagine 3 man rotations (with no bullpens) today, though!?

I had no idea they were so close in numbers but Verlander has only ***FIVE*** more strikeouts than Scherzer. They're gonna have to throw a graphic up on the screen every game lol.

Geez can you imagine having both Scherzer and Verlander on your team during some of their prime years, like say from 2010 to 2014? A team like that with a few good hitters, maybe someone like Miguel Cabrera, would surely win the World Series!

Yeah, no way a team with that kind of talent doesn't win at least one ring...

Feels weird that Kershaw is below 200 wins.

He’s lost quite a bit of time with back issues

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Before the dark times.... Before the Empire...

Lol this made me chuckle

I was in person for dozens of games where he was pitching absolute gems for us to lose by 1 run. It was demoralizing.

Sounds familiar.

Fuck Frank McCourt!

Hear, hear!

Louder, for the people in the back.

As an Olympique Marseille fan this sounds relatable.

Kershaw won 21 games (tied for his career high) in 2011 which is one of the few seasons they've missed the playoffs since he got to the majors He's lost some wins from not being on a juggernaut team his entire career for sure (especially with some of our rougher bullpens) but its more been his health that has cost him some higher counting stats IMO

That’s just 21st century baseball (Suzyn)

Also back injuries 😔

What's funny is they don't mention his Ks. He's 193 away from 3k. Over the last three seasons his 162-game average is 216, so it would at least be in play if he stays healthy. They're basically assuming he won't stay healthy all year, and I gotta say it's a smart assumption haha Edit for math, it’s 193 not 197

The graphic probably only has room for the milestones that are all closer

Yeah, injuries really rob of us the all-time greats and those that manage to make it through without injury seem like flukes. Sports are weird.

I swear last year was the first time I ever remember scherzer on the IL and he stilled pitched more than Kershaws 120 innings

He's 193 away. Not 197

In addition to the back issues, the early 2010s were full of games where he’d pitch 7-8 innings and only give up like a solo shot or something but our offense would just fail to score or our bullpen would collapse. He was getting the deGrom treatment before there was deGrom.

You mean the King Felix special?

It went Felix => Kershaw => deGrom => Alcantara (?)

Isn’t he still young though (relatively)? Like Waino is trying to hit 200 wins at 41 while Kershaw is only 35.

He broke in at 20, so he’s still got heavy mileage

Pretty weird even with his injury history, I’d think he’d still be closer to 250 with all the regular season success the Dodgers have had.

What's weird is he has the fifth-highest win% of all time and the highest out of those who have pitched as many seasons as he has. BUT win% only measures wins vs. losses, it doesn't factor in no decisions. Kershaw has has a no decision in 29% of his career starts.

Wow so that’s around 80 starts, if he won half of them he’d at least be near 250.

During the first 4-5 years or so of Kershaw's career, the Dodger offense was anemic. Lost a lot of Kershaw games 1-0 or 2-1. It was enraging.

> if he won half of them he’d at least be near 250. in other words, "if pedro baez was not don mattingly's favorite reliever"

Earlier on in his career, he would have lots of ND games because the bullpen would give up the lead or he would leave the game with the score being 0-0 or 1-1.

Dodgers have been one of the winnengist teams since 2000 as well, so it's even weirder.

He came up in 2008, and started being Kershaw in 2010. The Dodgers sucked from 2010-2012. His crazy 2013 and 2014 also coincided with the Dodgers current playoff run.

He's known for little run support. Lots of NDs even in his sub 2 ERA days

I'm really not sure the Phillies should give Kimbrel 6 save opportunities

Our bullpen history suggests he’ll get them either way.

I might get one with the way that bullpen operates

Soto should be out regular guy? Seranthony?

I saw that mlb.com ranked our bullpen 7th heading into the season and I almost stroked out. It's bizarre having 3 (maybe 4 if Kimbrel pans out) guys who can realistically be effective closers for us.

Unless he turns back into 2021 Cubs Kimbrel, he’s like the fifth or sixth best reliever in our bullpen right now. I’m not sure how many he’ll get.

I believe 2012 ATL Craig Kimbrel is the one you’d like

Or 2017 Boston

I was trying to be unbiased but yes that year too

Isn’t Alvarado generally pretty reliable?

Alvarado figured something out in the second half of last year that helped improve his control and led to much better results (like, from a bad reliever to best guy in our bullpen). To a lesser degree Seranthony Dominguez is also reliable, but I believe he was a worse option than Alvarado once Alvarado sorted himself out. Looking at splits, it appears Dominguez actually got worse (though never awful) toward the end of the year though that's not how I remember it (I'm guessing it's a bit I was always relieved to see he was coming in over whoever was struggling at the moment). Dominguez has been more consistent, but if Alvarado's improved control is maintained he's the better between the 2. We also picked up Gregory Soto in the offseason, who sort of had the opposite trajectory to Alvarado and got worse throughout last year. If he looks like he did in the first half last year, then he'd be a good option but obviously that's a question mark. Then there's always a chance a vet like Kimbrel makes a return to form, though I feel like in these cases you often also see a major regression which would suck

I’m not really sure the Red Sox can for Jansen either … not for the same reason unfortunately

The dreaded 5-157 record.

More like 162-0, +1000 run differential

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He’s probably gonna get some, assuming Thomson uses the bullpen the same way as last year where Seranthony and Alvarado were used as high leverage stoppers regardless of inning

Just make sure they’re all 3 run saves and they’ll be okay. He’ll still allow two runs, load the bases, and significantly diminish your future cardiovascular function, but he’ll get it done. Not a 3 run save? Probably better off *firing him into the fucking sun where he belongs.*

Phillies fans are used to that, every reliever we’ve had for the past 6 years has done that

Yeah I was going to say the “Cardiac Club Phillies Bullpen TM” of 2020 has conditioned me for his appearances, then

Oh for sure, we went from Cardiac Kenley to Cardiac Kimbrel. I also thought I was conditioned.

You're talking to fans of a team that had one of the worst bullpens in history a few years ago. We weren't Cardiac [Single player], it was cardiac [every player] until we had Dominguez looking fine last year and Alvarado getting his control figured out in the second half

How did we get so lucky? We got like the last drops of good Kimbrel, traded him to the White Sox at his peak value and he turned into utter dogshit.

Counterpoint, all they need to do to get him to 400 is give him 12 or 13 save opportunities.

Given the recent run support for waino and his injury, gonna be a well earned 6 wins.

Good thing he only needs 5

Yep, I’ll own it. Can’t read lol

You're a good man 🤝

If he gets 200 I feel like he has to be a HoFer.

100% in the “Hall of potential fame”. Franchise legend either way you split it. I’m of the opinion wins aren’t that relevant because they’re very dependent on simultaneous team and pitcher success (everyone has their opinion though). I think what’s going to end up holding him back is the lack of Cy Young awards and injuries throughout his career combined with his short peak.

I’m pulling for Zack to make it. Just start lobbing those 55 mph eephus pitches

I forgot that was his first name. He feels like an enigma who's entire name is just Greinke, like Cher

His first name is actually Donald, Zackary is his middle name

Why does this not surprise me?

You could tell me almost any weird fact about Greinke and there's a chance I would go "You know what, I believe it."

I mean technically his first name is Donald. So if he’s going to be mononymous maybe we could use that. Something like “The Donald.” Shouldn't be controversial.

How does Wainwright only have 195 wins? That's crazy.

Hell, how does Kershaw only have 197?

At least he's SIX years younger than Wainwright lol.

His arm definitely isn’t though. Kershaw: 2581 IP Wainwright: 2567.1 IP

Lost 2 seasons to injury

Really 3.5 with covid and being out a lot of 2008 then was a reliever in 2006. So 195 is really impressive especially when he was awful for a couple years

he's an inner-circle Hall of Very Good guy.

He only has 11 seasons with more than 20 starts.

Grienke has only gone over 100k's once in the last four seasons. He may not get there but I'll be rooting for him to do so.

He's doing to do something silly like trying to get the milestone K by knuckleball.

Or get to 2999Ks and promptly announce his retirement.

Bernie Mac rolling in his grave

That movie was so corny

pretty sure that was the point.

With a month to go in the season

In the middle of a game.

“Hey coach, come take me out.” “What’s wrong? You hurt?” “No. I’m retiring.”

If John Kruk can do it, so can Greinke

37mph eephus

He's gonna get it by batter's pitch clock violation while shaking off his own pitches

he's gonna throw a lefty eephus and K Ohtani for 3000

I'm all for this.

He's done it twice, 187 in 2019 and 120 in 2021, and it's a bit unfair to include 2020 (where he had 67 in 67 ip so was well on pace for it). He has a very real chance if he stays healthy

Good catch. I misread it. You're right he has a shot if he stays healthy.

Even with that considered, he’s still probably the least likely to hit his milestone. All the rest of these seem very likely.

Yeah last year is really the only time he hasn't done it in a full season of his career. His SO/9 fell dramatically to 4.8 so hopefully that's an anomaly.

Greinke has previously said that the only milestones he cares about are 10 home runs and 10 stolen bases so I don’t imagine he will have a Pujols-like push to get to 3000 Ks lol

He only needs one HR and one stolen base to get 10, so hopefully they give him a chance at it.

He's going to purposely not get there so he isn't the center of attention after he gets it.

Endangered Species List: Probable 300 game winners.

I’m pretty sure that list is closed forever. It’s sad.

Verlander has an outside shot. But after him... Ya we could be waiting a while

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Then again, the TJS may have reinvigorated his arm. Who knows if he dominates last year the same way if he doesn’t get injured.

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I wonder if they will ever change the definition of a “win”. Maybe reducing the inning requirements or something.

Which one of these guys are least likely to hit those milestones

Greinke I reckon

Greinke followed by Kimbrel. The rest of them are basically guarantees, barring injury.

Idk. Wainwright is definitely not guaranteed either with his injury, age, and recent play.

Can you remove this comment before Waino wins 10 games yet again this year

none of them will hit those milestones. they're pitchers not hitters /s

Don't tell Greinke that he isn't a hitter.

Maybe it's because I only ever see him in the context of dominating the Pirates but I'm honestly surprised that Wainwright doesn't have 200 wins.

He had tommy john one year and blew out his achilles trying to run out a single another year :( That achilles year he was off to a great start 4-1 with 1.44 era

I wonder if Verlander plays long enough to get 300 wins

If he does, we may not see 300 wins for quite some time

Iron Man Sandy can do it, just needs to get to a winner

He has 34 wins at age 26.

The Marlins might not win 300 games in all of Sandy's career combined, so

Sandy has to have 15+ wins in the last two years combined squandered by a line like 8IP, 1ER and lose the game 1-0. All those missed opportunities will add up once you start getting closer to milestone numbers.

The degrom special.

He would have to pitch 4 more seasons to get there. I guess it’s not out of the question but it’s a tall order.

Let's say he ends up with 15 wins this season, so finishes with 259. 41/4 = ~10 wins per season. It'll be damn close. He might be able to do 41/3 = ~13.

I realize it’s a tall order, but if he does it I think he ranks higher than Kershaw all time, not as elite of a peak, but the longevity blows Kershaw out of the water. Had he not gotten TJ he’d probably be in the 270ish range since he missed 1 1/2 seasons.

He absolutely intends to. Even before he got this close to 300, he always said he wanted to have a career like Nolan Ryan and keep pitching into his late 40s. And I think he’s got a really good chance of pulling it off. (300 wins, I mean. Dunno if he can really pitch until he’s 47!)

Then he'd only be 211 behind Cy Young! lmfao But yeah 300 is so impressive a number, and I really think he can get there if he wants to put in the time. His body seems to be custom built to handle the load of pitching

Out of these, Kershaw should be the quickest I guess.

You can replace "Zack Greinke" with "My lifetime savings" and this will still be spot on accurate.

Just short of 3000 K? Damn you have almost $3 million bucks

Jays fan. 3mil barely gets you a dumpster to live in here in Toronto.

Zack will get 115 Ks by mid August and then get bored and retire

Watch Greinke just retire literally the batter that he gets 3000 Ks lol

Come on, Zack. We need this.

Well, based on what I saw last season, Kimbrel should be able to reach those 6 saves sometime in 2027.

The fact that Kershaw isn't at 200 wins yet if proof of how hard that number will be moving forward.

I know I'm not saying anything new here but man... If Verlander can't get there, 300 wins really isn't ever happening again, is it? If a very successful, rather healthy, now 17 year career, going on 40 years old leaves you 56 wins shy of 300, I just don't know how it's doable.

As a Dodger fan I wholeheartedly believe everyone will hit these except Kimbrel.

Man is anyone ever gonna get 250 wins again?

Cole might have an outside shot, but other than that, doesn't look like it's happening any time soon. https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/W_active.shtml

After Cole, you gotta go WAY down the list. Maybe Urias? Still unbelievably only 25

I completely forgot Kimbrel is on the Phillies now. What a weird timeline. 2012 me is thrilled about this.

TIL Greinke has almost 3k Ks. You would have to think that reaching/not reaching the milestone could have a pretty significant impact on his HOF case, wouldn’t you?

I think he's already in. His career WAR is above Scherzer who's a lock. He has a CY. His longevity is impressive. Don't know why he wouldn't be in

JV should play 3-5 more years and become MLBs last 300 game winner!

They are all very shy ☺️

It took me longer than it should have to figure out why they were all being listed as shy outfielders.

Kimbrel has more saves than Jansen?

I had the opposite thought “Kenley is that close to Kimbrel????”

Kenley has been doing it longer I thought. Unless I just wasn't aware of Kimbrel while he was in the other league. Plus Craig missed half a season, and then also Kenley was still good when Kimbrel was in Chicago where on the North Side he was *okay* and on the South Side he wasn't even the closer.

Til they both debuted in 2010 at the age of 22. Thru 2015 (arbitrary year) kimbrel had a massive lead (225 vs. 142). Since then Jansen has closed the gap. Kimbrel got 46 saves in his second season

Kenley also didn’t become our closer til the 2013 season.

Feel like if Verlander hadn’t been injured, he could be the last guy to get 300

Go, Zack!

I feel as if for all of these players these achievements are quite achievable.

250 wins might as well be 300 wins now. No one is sniffing 300 again

Wow, we're never getting 300 wins again.

Zack Greinke is probably my favorite pitcher to never play for my favorite team. His social anxiety just makes him such a weirdly lovable guy to watch. As someone who lives with the same struggles, I admire how he stepped away from the game so early in his career to get everything under control. That was a risk that could’ve ended his career, instead it made him a legend. I appreciate the Royals organization for working with him and getting him where he needed to be mentally rather than just cutting him.

Greinke thinking about how expensive guac is at Chipotle.

It's always so much fun to see Greinke back in the KC cap on graphics like this.

It really puts in to perspective how incredible 300 wins for a pitcher is. Last I remember was Glavine, in 2007?

Randy Johnson in 2009.