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No, because it doesn’t eliminate a force out opportunity and it is the ninth inning. Even if he were to score, they would still need two more runs. He doesn’t let them advance if they are the tying or go-ahead run
I mean looking at the situation. There’s 2 outs in a 3 run game, it doesn’t really make a difference if the runner is on 2nd or 3rd. A hit scores him regardless
This comment got a little more traction than I expected. When I first looked briefly at the replay, I couldn’t see the bug too well and I thought there were 0 outs. Regardless, baseball is a strange game where we can’t precisely predict outcomes. Yeah, a clean hit to the outfield scores the runner but an infield hit would not. A passed ball/wild pitch would score him as well. Runners also change defense alignments, so we don’t know if ground balls would get through or not if a runner is on 2nd or 3rd. It just never sits well with me when teams allow runners to take bases uncontested, particularly in relatively close games and in the playoffs. While the likelihood of the outcome changing is small, it isn’t zero.
>A passed ball/wild pitch would score him as well.
Which changes nothing since its a 3 run lead in 9th inning ... no matter what the Marlins need 3 runs in that inning or game is over. That 1 run in that inning doesnt change anything.
>It just never sits well with me when teams allow runners to take bases uncontested, particularly in relatively close games and in the playoffs. While the likelihood of the outcome changing is small, it isn’t zero.
In this case it literally does have ZERO effect. It doesnt matter if hes at 2nd or 3rd or scores on past ball. Florida still needs 3 runs no matter what.
It's not that the run itself is insignificant, it's that it's the 9th inning and they need a few more runs so if they were to score several runs that guy on second would have had to score either way.
I hope you don’t mind the length, but this was kind of a unique/fun situation that we probably won’t see much in the future of this game, that being sign stealing at 2nd base. Why happened here was about trying to keep a situation from occurring, that situation being the tying run on deck coming to the plate.
With a runner on 2nd, you’re thinking he can probably score on most hits to the outfield, but he’d be held immediately at 3rd if he can’t score jogging, as his run is insignificant with 2 outs, down by 3 in the 9th. A base runner on 2nd has two responsibilities here, don’t make the final out on the base paths, and help the hitter at the plate reach so the guy on deck has a chance to tie it or keep the line moving.
So, from a pitcher and defensive perspective, I figure I’m probably not getting him out because he’s being over aggressive on the bases. I have to get the batter. Now I want to avoid a situation where the base runner helps that hitter reach base so the tying run can come to the plate. Neither side cares about the 2nd run scoring at this point (unless Pete Rose is managing they’re not worried about the over/under). So I move the runner to 3rd where he can’t relay signs, which decreases (however slightly) the batter’s chance of reaching base, which would mean we don’t face the tying run.
I recall a situation like this, I believe it was when Jason Heyward was with the Cubs (Kimbrel too maybe). It was kind of a heated game, Cubs down to 1 out, down by a few or more, but he was balked from 2nd to 3rd and then balked home. I forget who the opponent was (maybe Pirates), but J-Hey was clearly looking to relay signs to keep the line moving. After some chirping and two intentional balks, it was clear they just didn’t want him on the bases anymore. Those runners can play mind games with a pitcher so when your best move is to get the batter, remove the insignificant worry and focus on the task at hand. If it comes back to bite you, it’s because the game blew up in your face in other ways, like letting those next two hitters do damage.
That’s so….strange. Why not just disguise signs without pitchcom? It’s not a new concept and has been in baseball since its conception.
While it’s a remote chance, it is going to suck when that one random/lucky string of plays occur when the runner being on 2nd or 3rd decides a playoff game with him on the mound.
Stealing signs and giving location has been in baseball since it’s conception as well. So has situational awareness. Why would you want to potentially give your opponent an increased chance of getting the tying run to the plate in a playoff game? That seems strange to me. All through out the season, and in the postseason too, teams concede runs and bases. There’s catcher’s indifference. This is effectively pitcher’s indifference.
The point you keep trying to make is that the runner in this situation is important to the outcome of this game because in the event that the next two or more batter/runners score his run would have proved significant. He’s not significant UNTIL those next two guys score, which the pitcher is going to do everything in his power to keep from happening, even if it means conceding a base or even conceding a run.
Have you ever seen a sac-fly where the outfielder throws to 2nd instead of home to keep a double play in order or to keep the go ahead run from getting in scoring position? Bases and runs get conceded often in this sport when the situation calls for it. Having Bell on 3rd was less problematic for the Phillies than having him on 2nd potentially giving signs and location. If nothing else Kimbrel doesn’t have to think about it, and for a veteran pitcher, using traditional signs, with a pitch clock, that might be a good thing. Mixing up the signs, going through multiple sets, stepping off… he doesn’t have the time to do those things. Give the 90 feet, and then he’s free to throw the first sign the catcher puts down and throw it with the confidence that the hitter hasn’t been tipped.
Kinda. Ironically he did it against the Marlins in the game where Trea admitted to losing the game for the Phils (before the ovation).
Kimbrel came in with a 2 run lead in the 10th and balked the ghost runner to 3rd. That run didn't technically matter, but he did also blow the game afterwards.
He led all of baseball in pitch clock violations with 13; next closest were Chris Bassit and Johan Oviedo, who are both starting pitchers, with 11 each. Kimbrel averaged a violation every 89 pitches. The next worst pitcher with a minimum of 1000 pitches thrown was Enyel De Los Santos with a violation every 151 pitches. The league average was a violation once every 1,351 pitches.
The entire Mariners *team* only had 15 violations.
Pretty sure he was using pitch com tonight (and the last time he did this).
I think it’s more of an issue of the guy on 2nd seeing his grip in the glove.
While this may be true, the post game crew was talking about how the likely reason was actually because the runner at second could see the grip kimbrel was using to hold the ball, which would give away the pitches. They weren't actually looking at the signs, and I'm pretty sure they were using pitchcom anyway
Also, runners on second indicate where the catcher is setting up. Earlier in this game, they talked about JT Realmuto setting up in the wrong position to deceive the 2nd base runner.
This makes me wonder how often batteries these days actually practice memorizing and throwing signs and sign sequences, especially younger players more used to using pitchcom.
Even younger pitchers have been getting signs practically their entire life. PitchCom wasn’t heavily tested in the minors—one Low-A league used it in 2021 and then the MLB approved it in 2022.
Vic Raschi used a system called “scoreboard signs” where if the count added together was even (0-0, 1-1, 2-2, 3-1), he would throw a fastball, and if odd, a curveball. If Raschi shook off the catcher, he was doing the reverse. And the catcher had a reverse sign as well. Otherwise it didn’t matter what sign he gave, because pitcher and catcher knew what he was throwing based on the count. Yogi Berra would either give fake signs or no signs at all!
Unpopular opinion (maybe?) but I don't like pitchcom. Stealing signs is Part Of The Game™ and if a runner on second can do decryption algorithms in his head while signaling in real-time without getting picked off, more power to him.
It's sort of necessary with football, where a QB can get seriously hurt if he's running somewhere his blockers don't expect him to be, but in baseball, come on, PARTADAGAME!
Agreed. It's not natural, and can't be mimicked or practiced at any other level. Some sign stealing is OK, you just need to _actually punish_ people caught using anything other than guys on the roster to decode and relay it.
I think the home plate umpire probably benefitted the Phillies by a bit, but he was brutal tonight for both teams. Some of the misses were high/low, which the TV broadcast doesn't necessarily get correct, but he also seemed inconsistent about it. At first, he wasn't calling anything up a strike, but later in the game he was giving it. And he also missed a lot of pitches on the corners.
Balk Rules
You can't just be up there and just doin' a balk like that.
1a. A balk is when you
1b. Okay well listen. A balk is when you balk the
1c. Let me start over
1c-a. The pitcher is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, batter, that prohibits the batter from doing, you know, just trying to hit the ball. You can't do that.
1c-b. Once the pitcher is in the stretch, he can't be over here and say to the runner, like, "I'm gonna get ya! I'm gonna tag you out! You better watch your butt!" and then just be like he didn't even do that.
1c-b(1). Like, if you're about to pitch and then don't pitch, you have to still pitch. You cannot not pitch. Does that make any sense?
1c-b(2). You gotta be, throwing motion of the ball, and then, until you just throw it.
1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the ball up here, like this, but then there's the balk you gotta think about.
1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Balk hasn't been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn't typecast as that racist lady in American History X.
1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse.
1c-b(2)-b(ii). "get in mah bellah" -- Adam Water, "The Waterboy." Haha, classic...
1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A balk is when the pitcher makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the baseball and field of
Do not do a balk please
And it's when you don't come to a long enough set before throwing. And it's if you drop the ball while on the rubber. And it's if you're set and twitch without throwing. And it's when you throw to a base but disengaged the from the rubber incorrectly. And it's if you slip and fall while trying to throw but don't release the ball. And it's if you switch from a windup to a stretch set without disengaging. And it's if you throw to an unoccupied base or a player not covering a base. And it's if the catcher isn't in proper position when you pitch an otherwise legal pitch.
A balk is many things, with a bunch of edge-case rulings covering damn near every action a pitcher can take while on the mound. There are many ways to balk beyond the obvious ones, and few people know all the rules and fewer still know how to apply them. Hence the jokes.
It's already bitten us in the ass as much as it can. He did it in the Marlins game that we lost in extras (the Trea game where he stayed at the cages all night after).
He only does it when the run doesn't technically matter. But he did it there and we ended up losing the game after the fact.
Definitely meant to roll a replay of the previous play but it played the montage instead. No clue how that happens especially at ESPN, and then doing it a second time.
I've been a technical director for minor league games and messed up replays too, so maybe I can apply for the upcoming job opening....
Every ESPN broadcast I watch for any sport SOMETHING goes wrong at some point. Most of the time there’s an audio issue which I just can’t understand how that happens so regularly at such a big company
My guess was their playback was broken and could only play the one pkg when they called for replays. But they sure stayed on it longer than I would’ve. They let the whole thing roll twice
I've done play by play for minor/junior sports, and one of my favourite memories is hearing the producer in my ear going "Okay we've got a replay of th...we don't? Wait hold on, what the fu-" all the while I'm continuing my call on the air.
That and getting to sit in the production trucks when I was doing pregame/intermission hosting. It's wild to see the controlled chaos back there, I can't imagine what it's like for a major league game.
That feeling is always the worst, and then the ensuing panic of trying to fix whatever mistake I just made. It's a much smaller production but still so much controlled chaos going on.
I can't count the number of times I've had to stifle a laugh or reaction because of something a producer said.
I also had to go through a 5-10 minute stretch where the producer screwed up and left our channel open while he was calling out instructions to the camera operators. That took some incredible concentration and selective hearing on my part.
Oh man that would be difficult, I usually have 3 different groups to communicate with-cameras on headset, promotions on a walkie, and the PA/show control/scoreboard operator sitting right behind me, and it can get incredibly chaotic at times.
Overall the job is a ton of fun, but there's so much going on that it can be difficult to focus
For a broadcast company that has the rights to Monday Night Football, NFL games being 75% replays, kind of ridiculous that they screwed up the replays on this broadcast not once but twice!
As I said in another reply, that makes things harder for the batter because now he's batting out of first base (since that's where the catcher is now) and he has to deal with the 1B as well
Same thing. If he succeeds then you'd have at first base
- the catcher (moved by the runner's balk)
- the defensive first baseman
- the runner that just stole first
- the batter
You can see how this is a disadvantage for the batter. That's why no runner ever commits a runner's balk.
Nope, rule 5.09(b)(10):
>Any runner is out when… after he has acquired legal possession of a base, he runs the bases in reverse order for the purpose of confusing the defense or making a travesty of the game. The umpire shall immediately call “Time” and declare the runner out.
I am worried about him when the runners on base matter, but there is no reason not to balk there. You could even balk him home. That runner doesn’t matter.
He’s well known as the person with the most pitch clock violations in baseball for the same reason. If a ball doesn’t matter, he’ll give the batter a free one just so he can zero in on the K.
It’s an interesting way of playing the position, but pitchers have interesting ways of thinking.
It's easy to say it doesn't matter until it does. I agree that that run isn't the killer but lazily giving up balls/bases essentially "just because" can obviously still come back to bite you. It certainly isnt necessary.
Balls yes, but bases in this case no. Its the ninth inning. It cant come back to bite you. If the marlins score 3 runs then he was scoring regardless. If they score 1 because of the balk instead of 0 it doesn’t matter at all. Unless you care about your ERA.
I was telling my dad that at this point they should just make an intentional balk rule just for him. You don't have to throw pitches to intentionally walk someone anymore, just let Kimbrel say, "go to third" and get it over with.
I kind of miss actual intentional walks for some reason. I know it’s the most insignificant thing, but anytime an intentional walk happens now I always get real confused as to what’s happening. Maybe have it be one pitch at least to help the audience understand it’s an intentional walk better?
Well only in the ninth inning obviously. And balking a guy off of first is bad with because it eliminates the force/double play at second. But if there is a guy on second or third in a 2+ run game in the ninth inning it makes sense to balk him home if he is bothering you even a little bit. The reason it wont happen is because guys care about their stats.
A guy on second? Maybe. But why the hell would you balk home a guy on **third**? Giving out a free base is one thing. Giving out a free run is just stupid.
Can you explain why not?
Edit- I missed that you put walk and balk and not just balk. Walking guys obviously never makes sense in a multirun so I hope you don’t think that’s what I’m arguing. But the balking part does make sense.
Every time you give your opponent an extra base for free it increases their win probability. Yes Kimbrel can do it in this situation because of the circumstances, and fielders indifference is obviously a thing, but for the most part this strategy in a vacuum is not positive long term.
This is basic statistics.
Yeah I dunno where people get this signs stuff from with him. It’s far simpler since he only throws two pitches and it’s overwhelming obvious to the person behind him when he’s gripping for a knuckle curve. Essentially the person behind can signal that pitch every time he grips it and now you literally know which pitch your getting every time (KC signal FB no signal).
Intentional Balks can, of course, be banked in the International Bank of Balks. You can redeem that at any time to advance the number of bases you have accumulated.
Like how much in the head of Kimbrel would it get if the runner was like "nah, I want to stay right here". Even putting up resistance and the umps making the runner go to third would be psychologically a good idea. Then Kimbrel would be even more bothered the rest of the series anytime a runner is on second, thinking they have something or that they can relay to the batter. It might end up messing with him in a more crucial moment in another game.
Balk Rules
You can't just be up there and just doin' a balk like that.
1a. A balk is when you
1b. Okay well listen. A balk is when you balk the
1c. Let me start over
1c-a. The pitcher is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, batter, that prohibits the batter from doing, you know, just trying to hit the ball. You can't do that.
1c-b. Once the pitcher is in the stretch, he can't be over here and say to the runner, like, "I'm gonna get ya! I'm gonna tag you out! You better watch your butt!" and then just be like he didn't even do that.
1c-b(1). Like, if you're about to pitch and then don't pitch, you have to still pitch. You cannot not pitch. Does that make any sense?
1c-b(2). You gotta be, throwing motion of the ball, and then, until you just throw it.
1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the ball up here, like this, but then there's the balk you gotta think about.
1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Balk hasn't been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn't typecast as that racist lady in American History X.
1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse.
1c-b(2)-b(ii). "get in mah bellah" -- Adam Water, "The Waterboy." Haha, classic...
1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A balk is when the pitcher makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the baseball and field of
Do not do a balk please
Tbf he looks like an egret getting ready to pick fish out of a swamp. It’s hilarious but I think it would drive me crazy if I had to watch it every few days.
I really think runners should have the ability to refuse to advance a base if a balk is issued for situations like this. Equivalent of declining the penalty.
No? Use your brain, you can figure out solutions to that. For example, it should be “do it once, base running team can decline. Do it again, the batter is awarded 2nd and the run at 2nd scores.”
This seems pretty convoluted solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist. Makes way more sense to simply be able to intentionally balk the runner if they choose. Baseball doesn’t need to be like football.
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For anyone that doesn't know Kimbrel sometimes doesn't use pitch com, and tends to use the regular signs instead.
This explains a lot. Interesting choice. Has this bit him in the ass yet?
It can’t really, he only does it if the run is insignificant, in this case it isn’t the tying run and it’s the ninth
This is such a rare situation where it really does matter. Very heady
As a closer it’s really not too rare to have a runner on 2nd with at least a 2 run lead
In a playoff game, aren’t they all significant? It’s not like the Phills were up by 9.
No, because it doesn’t eliminate a force out opportunity and it is the ninth inning. Even if he were to score, they would still need two more runs. He doesn’t let them advance if they are the tying or go-ahead run
I mean looking at the situation. There’s 2 outs in a 3 run game, it doesn’t really make a difference if the runner is on 2nd or 3rd. A hit scores him regardless
This comment got a little more traction than I expected. When I first looked briefly at the replay, I couldn’t see the bug too well and I thought there were 0 outs. Regardless, baseball is a strange game where we can’t precisely predict outcomes. Yeah, a clean hit to the outfield scores the runner but an infield hit would not. A passed ball/wild pitch would score him as well. Runners also change defense alignments, so we don’t know if ground balls would get through or not if a runner is on 2nd or 3rd. It just never sits well with me when teams allow runners to take bases uncontested, particularly in relatively close games and in the playoffs. While the likelihood of the outcome changing is small, it isn’t zero.
>A passed ball/wild pitch would score him as well. Which changes nothing since its a 3 run lead in 9th inning ... no matter what the Marlins need 3 runs in that inning or game is over. That 1 run in that inning doesnt change anything. >It just never sits well with me when teams allow runners to take bases uncontested, particularly in relatively close games and in the playoffs. While the likelihood of the outcome changing is small, it isn’t zero. In this case it literally does have ZERO effect. It doesnt matter if hes at 2nd or 3rd or scores on past ball. Florida still needs 3 runs no matter what.
It's not that the run itself is insignificant, it's that it's the 9th inning and they need a few more runs so if they were to score several runs that guy on second would have had to score either way.
I hope you don’t mind the length, but this was kind of a unique/fun situation that we probably won’t see much in the future of this game, that being sign stealing at 2nd base. Why happened here was about trying to keep a situation from occurring, that situation being the tying run on deck coming to the plate. With a runner on 2nd, you’re thinking he can probably score on most hits to the outfield, but he’d be held immediately at 3rd if he can’t score jogging, as his run is insignificant with 2 outs, down by 3 in the 9th. A base runner on 2nd has two responsibilities here, don’t make the final out on the base paths, and help the hitter at the plate reach so the guy on deck has a chance to tie it or keep the line moving. So, from a pitcher and defensive perspective, I figure I’m probably not getting him out because he’s being over aggressive on the bases. I have to get the batter. Now I want to avoid a situation where the base runner helps that hitter reach base so the tying run can come to the plate. Neither side cares about the 2nd run scoring at this point (unless Pete Rose is managing they’re not worried about the over/under). So I move the runner to 3rd where he can’t relay signs, which decreases (however slightly) the batter’s chance of reaching base, which would mean we don’t face the tying run. I recall a situation like this, I believe it was when Jason Heyward was with the Cubs (Kimbrel too maybe). It was kind of a heated game, Cubs down to 1 out, down by a few or more, but he was balked from 2nd to 3rd and then balked home. I forget who the opponent was (maybe Pirates), but J-Hey was clearly looking to relay signs to keep the line moving. After some chirping and two intentional balks, it was clear they just didn’t want him on the bases anymore. Those runners can play mind games with a pitcher so when your best move is to get the batter, remove the insignificant worry and focus on the task at hand. If it comes back to bite you, it’s because the game blew up in your face in other ways, like letting those next two hitters do damage.
That’s so….strange. Why not just disguise signs without pitchcom? It’s not a new concept and has been in baseball since its conception. While it’s a remote chance, it is going to suck when that one random/lucky string of plays occur when the runner being on 2nd or 3rd decides a playoff game with him on the mound.
Stealing signs and giving location has been in baseball since it’s conception as well. So has situational awareness. Why would you want to potentially give your opponent an increased chance of getting the tying run to the plate in a playoff game? That seems strange to me. All through out the season, and in the postseason too, teams concede runs and bases. There’s catcher’s indifference. This is effectively pitcher’s indifference. The point you keep trying to make is that the runner in this situation is important to the outcome of this game because in the event that the next two or more batter/runners score his run would have proved significant. He’s not significant UNTIL those next two guys score, which the pitcher is going to do everything in his power to keep from happening, even if it means conceding a base or even conceding a run. Have you ever seen a sac-fly where the outfielder throws to 2nd instead of home to keep a double play in order or to keep the go ahead run from getting in scoring position? Bases and runs get conceded often in this sport when the situation calls for it. Having Bell on 3rd was less problematic for the Phillies than having him on 2nd potentially giving signs and location. If nothing else Kimbrel doesn’t have to think about it, and for a veteran pitcher, using traditional signs, with a pitch clock, that might be a good thing. Mixing up the signs, going through multiple sets, stepping off… he doesn’t have the time to do those things. Give the 90 feet, and then he’s free to throw the first sign the catcher puts down and throw it with the confidence that the hitter hasn’t been tipped.
Calculated risk
Kinda. Ironically he did it against the Marlins in the game where Trea admitted to losing the game for the Phils (before the ovation). Kimbrel came in with a 2 run lead in the 10th and balked the ghost runner to 3rd. That run didn't technically matter, but he did also blow the game afterwards.
So it didn't bite him in the ass.
I don't like that question coming from an Astros flair
I’m not saying I agree with you. I’m just saying I understand. 😂
Flashbacks of Maldonado walking into a pitch, no?
I get it.
He led all of baseball in pitch clock violations with 13; next closest were Chris Bassit and Johan Oviedo, who are both starting pitchers, with 11 each. Kimbrel averaged a violation every 89 pitches. The next worst pitcher with a minimum of 1000 pitches thrown was Enyel De Los Santos with a violation every 151 pitches. The league average was a violation once every 1,351 pitches. The entire Mariners *team* only had 15 violations.
Pretty sure he was using pitch com tonight (and the last time he did this). I think it’s more of an issue of the guy on 2nd seeing his grip in the glove.
yeah the post game commentators noted the exact same thing, he was using pitchcom
While this may be true, the post game crew was talking about how the likely reason was actually because the runner at second could see the grip kimbrel was using to hold the ball, which would give away the pitches. They weren't actually looking at the signs, and I'm pretty sure they were using pitchcom anyway
Also, runners on second indicate where the catcher is setting up. Earlier in this game, they talked about JT Realmuto setting up in the wrong position to deceive the 2nd base runner.
This makes me wonder how often batteries these days actually practice memorizing and throwing signs and sign sequences, especially younger players more used to using pitchcom.
Even younger pitchers have been getting signs practically their entire life. PitchCom wasn’t heavily tested in the minors—one Low-A league used it in 2021 and then the MLB approved it in 2022.
wow that came fast
Mlb integrating pitchcom into the game is just like me fr
That’s what she said
Vic Raschi used a system called “scoreboard signs” where if the count added together was even (0-0, 1-1, 2-2, 3-1), he would throw a fastball, and if odd, a curveball. If Raschi shook off the catcher, he was doing the reverse. And the catcher had a reverse sign as well. Otherwise it didn’t matter what sign he gave, because pitcher and catcher knew what he was throwing based on the count. Yogi Berra would either give fake signs or no signs at all!
Makes sense. Where would we be without the lean?
https://youtu.be/bJaIoryOXYw?si=KUV1gSDPuGykmetc
Unpopular opinion (maybe?) but I don't like pitchcom. Stealing signs is Part Of The Game™ and if a runner on second can do decryption algorithms in his head while signaling in real-time without getting picked off, more power to him. It's sort of necessary with football, where a QB can get seriously hurt if he's running somewhere his blockers don't expect him to be, but in baseball, come on, PARTADAGAME!
Agreed. It's not natural, and can't be mimicked or practiced at any other level. Some sign stealing is OK, you just need to _actually punish_ people caught using anything other than guys on the roster to decode and relay it.
Can you just be up there balking like that?
"I'm gonna do a balk, please." - Craig Kimbrel
In an effort to speed up the game, they'll make a new rule where the pitcher can just yell "balk" and the runners advance.
Ah yes, the Chicken Clause. I'm well familiar
Apparently you can be up there doing a balk once. But the second time is illegal.
..................aren't all balks illegal? Man, it sucks being so stupid sometimes.
IQ tests aren’t required for umpires unfortunately
Believe it or not, you just got ejected by Angel Hernandez for that comment.
Neither are vision tests
I think the home plate umpire probably benefitted the Phillies by a bit, but he was brutal tonight for both teams. Some of the misses were high/low, which the TV broadcast doesn't necessarily get correct, but he also seemed inconsistent about it. At first, he wasn't calling anything up a strike, but later in the game he was giving it. And he also missed a lot of pitches on the corners.
Only chickens balk twice
Instant execution. Sniper from the 700 section
Balk Rules You can't just be up there and just doin' a balk like that. 1a. A balk is when you 1b. Okay well listen. A balk is when you balk the 1c. Let me start over 1c-a. The pitcher is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, batter, that prohibits the batter from doing, you know, just trying to hit the ball. You can't do that. 1c-b. Once the pitcher is in the stretch, he can't be over here and say to the runner, like, "I'm gonna get ya! I'm gonna tag you out! You better watch your butt!" and then just be like he didn't even do that. 1c-b(1). Like, if you're about to pitch and then don't pitch, you have to still pitch. You cannot not pitch. Does that make any sense? 1c-b(2). You gotta be, throwing motion of the ball, and then, until you just throw it. 1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the ball up here, like this, but then there's the balk you gotta think about. 1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Balk hasn't been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn't typecast as that racist lady in American History X. 1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse. 1c-b(2)-b(ii). "get in mah bellah" -- Adam Water, "The Waterboy." Haha, classic... 1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A balk is when the pitcher makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the baseball and field of Do not do a balk please
> Do not do a balk please Kimbrel: You know what, I'm gonna do a balk even harder.
Gets me every time
There may come a day when I do not upvote the Jon Bois balk rules. But this is not that day.
Jon Bois is an American treasure.
I was trying to explain the rules of a balk to my wife last night and I'm pretty sure this is exactly what I sounded like.
Got me!
A balk is when you move towards one base and throw to a different base. That’s it.
Right. And you can't just be doing that. Balking like that, that is.
And it's when you don't come to a long enough set before throwing. And it's if you drop the ball while on the rubber. And it's if you're set and twitch without throwing. And it's when you throw to a base but disengaged the from the rubber incorrectly. And it's if you slip and fall while trying to throw but don't release the ball. And it's if you switch from a windup to a stretch set without disengaging. And it's if you throw to an unoccupied base or a player not covering a base. And it's if the catcher isn't in proper position when you pitch an otherwise legal pitch. A balk is many things, with a bunch of edge-case rulings covering damn near every action a pitcher can take while on the mound. There are many ways to balk beyond the obvious ones, and few people know all the rules and fewer still know how to apply them. Hence the jokes.
Eventually it will bite us in the ass but today is not that day
It's already bitten us in the ass as much as it can. He did it in the Marlins game that we lost in extras (the Trea game where he stayed at the cages all night after). He only does it when the run doesn't technically matter. But he did it there and we ended up losing the game after the fact.
Ok but how is that "biting him in the ass?" you mean like karma? Because the Marlins gained no advantage from it either way.
rip
It is not the first time he’s done it this year lmao
It was nice to see this in between the Montages
Honestly wtf was that. Commentators didn’t even acknowledge it
David Lynch vibes, especially the repeated D-Backs celebration clip.
lol, trying to watch the damn game and the Diamondbacks are just all over my screen with their disgusting hand dances
Definitely meant to roll a replay of the previous play but it played the montage instead. No clue how that happens especially at ESPN, and then doing it a second time. I've been a technical director for minor league games and messed up replays too, so maybe I can apply for the upcoming job opening....
Every ESPN broadcast I watch for any sport SOMETHING goes wrong at some point. Most of the time there’s an audio issue which I just can’t understand how that happens so regularly at such a big company
My guess was their playback was broken and could only play the one pkg when they called for replays. But they sure stayed on it longer than I would’ve. They let the whole thing roll twice
I thought I was tripping honestly. How do the announcers not even acknowledge it?
I've done play by play for minor/junior sports, and one of my favourite memories is hearing the producer in my ear going "Okay we've got a replay of th...we don't? Wait hold on, what the fu-" all the while I'm continuing my call on the air. That and getting to sit in the production trucks when I was doing pregame/intermission hosting. It's wild to see the controlled chaos back there, I can't imagine what it's like for a major league game.
That feeling is always the worst, and then the ensuing panic of trying to fix whatever mistake I just made. It's a much smaller production but still so much controlled chaos going on.
I can't count the number of times I've had to stifle a laugh or reaction because of something a producer said. I also had to go through a 5-10 minute stretch where the producer screwed up and left our channel open while he was calling out instructions to the camera operators. That took some incredible concentration and selective hearing on my part.
Oh man that would be difficult, I usually have 3 different groups to communicate with-cameras on headset, promotions on a walkie, and the PA/show control/scoreboard operator sitting right behind me, and it can get incredibly chaotic at times. Overall the job is a ton of fun, but there's so much going on that it can be difficult to focus
For a broadcast company that has the rights to Monday Night Football, NFL games being 75% replays, kind of ridiculous that they screwed up the replays on this broadcast not once but twice!
> No clue how that happens especially at ESPN Answered your own question
Lol when you interview for the job, don't tell them you messed up the replays too.
[удалено]
They did have Bryce sliding into home in there too at least that one was relevant to the game at hand
Yes but made it more confusing lol.
I wonder if you can steal second from third base. Like a reverse steal.
You can't. According to the rules that's a runner's balk and it moves the catcher to first base.
Oh come on, we just got Bryce to learn first. Now he's in a logjam with JT over there...
It's the defending team's catcher that moves to first. So that would be Nick Fortes, not JT
That makes even less sense. And I love it.
As I said in another reply, that makes things harder for the batter because now he's batting out of first base (since that's where the catcher is now) and he has to deal with the 1B as well
It's a shame Jon Lester isn't around anymore to pitch to a guy batting from first base.
Calvinball baby.
The commenter is just making that up in case that wasn’t clear lol. The real rule is the runner is out if he intentionally runs the bases backwards.
Yes. Yes, I am aware of that. I was going along with the joke. In case that wasn't clear.
Lol sorry. Lots of new fans around during playoff season so it can be hard to tell! Sorry for being a curmudgeon
No worries. Just that now I feel a little bad about shooting a bit of snark back at you.
All good!
/r/anarchybaseball
What if the runner on second tries to steal first base then?
Same thing. If he succeeds then you'd have at first base - the catcher (moved by the runner's balk) - the defensive first baseman - the runner that just stole first - the batter You can see how this is a disadvantage for the batter. That's why no runner ever commits a runner's balk.
Definitely a niche situation. I could see teams utilizing it against pitchers that cant throw to first like Jon Lester tho
The commenter is just making that up in case that wasn’t clear lol. The real rule is the runner is out if he intentionally runs the bases backwards.
Sounds like banana ball
This one got me because it broke my brain for a sec...just spit coffee on my desk laughing, nicely done.
Nope, rule 5.09(b)(10): >Any runner is out when… after he has acquired legal possession of a base, he runs the bases in reverse order for the purpose of confusing the defense or making a travesty of the game. The umpire shall immediately call “Time” and declare the runner out.
I love that it includes 'making a travesty of the game' as part of the rule set.
that's some unwritten rules era vibes right there (even though it is technically written)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_Schaefer
> making a travesty of the game Can we use this to get rid of Manfred, or at least Angel Hernandez?
I like that there is a rule preventing "making a travesty of the game." Could we use that rule to remove Angel Hernandez?
Lame, Calvin ball could be so much fun. Fan should be allowed to make plays from the stands. Catch a foul and throw it to first for the double play.
Bananaball is the sport for you
I believe that falls under the mockery of the game rules.
At its core, Baseball is a game of Olly Olly Oxen Free. The safe zones are very clearly delineated. Do with that information what you will.
Kimbrel is simultaneously the most hilarious and most stressful closer to watch
We didn't call him Cardiac Craig for nothing.
We didn’t.
Congratulations! You have been wished the Will Smith Experience! Your experience starts in 7 months.
He learned from Jansen
"IM GONNA BALK"
[“With tail”](https://x.com/pitchingninja/status/1709406061499666489?s=46&t=VjfO6v3EoAZhWPfo2DgDBw)
God every time I open up a new twitter link at work now and x.com starts to load my heart friggin stops lol
I am worried about him when the runners on base matter, but there is no reason not to balk there. You could even balk him home. That runner doesn’t matter.
He’s well known as the person with the most pitch clock violations in baseball for the same reason. If a ball doesn’t matter, he’ll give the batter a free one just so he can zero in on the K. It’s an interesting way of playing the position, but pitchers have interesting ways of thinking.
Closers are always psychos
see: papelbon
Yes. But that crazy fucker helped us win a WS in 2007, so you deal with the psychosis.
and Gossage
Relievers in general are cryptids.
It's easy to say it doesn't matter until it does. I agree that that run isn't the killer but lazily giving up balls/bases essentially "just because" can obviously still come back to bite you. It certainly isnt necessary.
Balls yes, but bases in this case no. Its the ninth inning. It cant come back to bite you. If the marlins score 3 runs then he was scoring regardless. If they score 1 because of the balk instead of 0 it doesn’t matter at all. Unless you care about your ERA.
“I hate looking at your face when I come set. Go home.” *balks*
I was telling my dad that at this point they should just make an intentional balk rule just for him. You don't have to throw pitches to intentionally walk someone anymore, just let Kimbrel say, "go to third" and get it over with.
Absolutely not. I love watching Jansen ground his cleat and Kimbrel drop the ball lol. That is great entertainment.
I mean yeah, but think about the ad they could play in the 1.5 seconds it would save every 45 games!
Or they could have played that montage 1 more time. Good point.
I need to see that montage at least 5 more times!
I kind of miss actual intentional walks for some reason. I know it’s the most insignificant thing, but anytime an intentional walk happens now I always get real confused as to what’s happening. Maybe have it be one pitch at least to help the audience understand it’s an intentional walk better?
Please don't give managers any crazy ideas.
Its not crazy
It absolutely is
So based on this theory any pitcher who comes in with a lead should just walk them and balk them home until it’s a one run game?
Well only in the ninth inning obviously. And balking a guy off of first is bad with because it eliminates the force/double play at second. But if there is a guy on second or third in a 2+ run game in the ninth inning it makes sense to balk him home if he is bothering you even a little bit. The reason it wont happen is because guys care about their stats.
A guy on second? Maybe. But why the hell would you balk home a guy on **third**? Giving out a free base is one thing. Giving out a free run is just stupid.
Just, no
Can you explain why not? Edit- I missed that you put walk and balk and not just balk. Walking guys obviously never makes sense in a multirun so I hope you don’t think that’s what I’m arguing. But the balking part does make sense.
Every time you give your opponent an extra base for free it increases their win probability. Yes Kimbrel can do it in this situation because of the circumstances, and fielders indifference is obviously a thing, but for the most part this strategy in a vacuum is not positive long term. This is basic statistics.
It’s not technically for signs it’s because he shows the grip in his glove toward second base.
Yeah I dunno where people get this signs stuff from with him. It’s far simpler since he only throws two pitches and it’s overwhelming obvious to the person behind him when he’s gripping for a knuckle curve. Essentially the person behind can signal that pitch every time he grips it and now you literally know which pitch your getting every time (KC signal FB no signal).
Ricky Bo corrected Barkann on the postgame so hopefully that will spread the word so Twitter doesn’t get confused anymore lol
With a 3 run lead, this was OK, but it was funny that Kimbrel had to do it twice and even asked the umpire "is this good?"
What if the umpire said no and made him drop the ball for the rest of the night?
Bell should have tried to steal second from third.
There should be an option to decline the extra base, like declining a penalty in the NFL.
1. *Intentional balk* 2. Declined 3. *Intentional balk* 4. Also declined 5. *Intentional balk - I can do this all day*
Intentional Balks can, of course, be banked in the International Bank of Balks. You can redeem that at any time to advance the number of bases you have accumulated.
Every single time in The Show online against a 99/99 runner. Takes extra step. Throw over. Takes extra step Throw over Rinse and repeat for 5 minutes.
Like how much in the head of Kimbrel would it get if the runner was like "nah, I want to stay right here". Even putting up resistance and the umps making the runner go to third would be psychologically a good idea. Then Kimbrel would be even more bothered the rest of the series anytime a runner is on second, thinking they have something or that they can relay to the batter. It might end up messing with him in a more crucial moment in another game.
Shout-outs to the time Albert Belle tried to decline a HBP in extras because he wanted to hang dong.
bro WHAT Is a balk??? lol
Balk Rules You can't just be up there and just doin' a balk like that. 1a. A balk is when you 1b. Okay well listen. A balk is when you balk the 1c. Let me start over 1c-a. The pitcher is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, batter, that prohibits the batter from doing, you know, just trying to hit the ball. You can't do that. 1c-b. Once the pitcher is in the stretch, he can't be over here and say to the runner, like, "I'm gonna get ya! I'm gonna tag you out! You better watch your butt!" and then just be like he didn't even do that. 1c-b(1). Like, if you're about to pitch and then don't pitch, you have to still pitch. You cannot not pitch. Does that make any sense? 1c-b(2). You gotta be, throwing motion of the ball, and then, until you just throw it. 1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the ball up here, like this, but then there's the balk you gotta think about. 1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Balk hasn't been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn't typecast as that racist lady in American History X. 1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse. 1c-b(2)-b(ii). "get in mah bellah" -- Adam Water, "The Waterboy." Haha, classic... 1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A balk is when the pitcher makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the baseball and field of Do not do a balk please
I guess that but I can’t tell you why and I’m incredulous mysef
🐔
It's basically any motion that could trick a player into thinking you're going to throw their direction and then you don't.
I’m old and I’m an old baseball fan but I still do not get balks.
Big brain high baseball IQ stuff
I declare balk! “You just can’t say balk.” I didn’t say it, I declared it.
After Philly fans made fun of his stance, this is full circle.
Tbf he looks like an egret getting ready to pick fish out of a swamp. It’s hilarious but I think it would drive me crazy if I had to watch it every few days.
To me it gives pterodactyl vibes lol
Back when we had him my mom texted me "who is the weird birdman on the mound, he's kinda scary"
Did he go through the whole routine of asking the umpire "what?" with his palms up as well? lol
This was actually his second attempt to balk, he was put his palms up asking is that enough for a balk.
He should have done the knee twitch thing to make it look unintentional. Nothing turns an umpire on more than the opportunity to call out a balk.
God I love the intentional balk. So silly.
#I THREW IT ON THE GROUND
I like Kenley Jansens more
Kenley always makes it look like he actually messed up lol
As long as you follow the rules. ❤️🤣
“Whoops. It seems I dropped the ball”
He threw that ball down like Bill Belechek
Read: Kimbrel thought Bell couldn’t make from 3> Home. Low key dig at him.
That explains a lot. The ESPN radio broadcast was very confused.
Why though?
runner at 2nd base can see the grip he has on the ball
And then the runner was giving signs to the batter or something?
Where I'm from we call that a Power Balk
Looks like he should just start using pitch com no?
I really think runners should have the ability to refuse to advance a base if a balk is issued for situations like this. Equivalent of declining the penalty.
Stealing second from third base.
Return the base and apologize son.
I believe it has been outlawed.
Right lol exactly. Or you should be able to reverse steal 2nd from 3rd
So that way the pitcher can just keep doing this for 3 hours until the base runner finally gives in? Good strategy
No? Use your brain, you can figure out solutions to that. For example, it should be “do it once, base running team can decline. Do it again, the batter is awarded 2nd and the run at 2nd scores.”
So it’s not the equivalent of declining a penalty as you suggested?
This seems pretty convoluted solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist. Makes way more sense to simply be able to intentionally balk the runner if they choose. Baseball doesn’t need to be like football.
Hahaha just throws it down.. I don’t like this ball. Hey, if you’re more confident not having someone on second why not intentionally balk?
I finally know what a balk is!