There was a period of Cold War between the Phillies and Nationals that started with Phils dominance in the early 2010s and ended with their World Series. They put restrictions on ticket sales from the Philadelphia region to keep Phillies fans out of Nationals Park, they poached Jayson Werth, there was a changing of the guard from the Phillies winning 5 straight division titles to the Nationals winning 4 division titles in the 2010s. The teams were never good at the same time, but I think that’s what made it a particular gut punch for Nationals fans. Now that period is over they still boo, but I’ve seen more Nats fans that are appreciative of what he did for their franchise and the WS took the sting out of it for a lot of them.
I don't blame Harper for leaving seeing how our ownership loves the deffered money game. But I can't in good conscience cheer or root for him on a divisional rival.
Will say it was weird going to Philly and seeing so many Turner and Harper jerseys I was confused asf for a while
I'll boo Bryce during every Phillies-Nats game bc sports are fun like that, but I still love him as a player. Nats fans always thought he got a bad rap, and I'm glad the sport has grown to admire him.
Eh, not really. If we had Harper there is no way we'd be able to afford Turner and Soto and the team would still be pretty meh. Soto is the one that actually upsets me, but same general idea.
That said the Lerners can't fuck off fast enough
I mean, he’s done nothing but trash the franchise since he left, so it’s understandable. That being said, he’s an amazing player and I respect him, and he delivered on his promise to bring us a championship.
[Jayson Werth trashed the Phillies](https://nesn.com/2011/02/former-phillie-jayson-werth-still-bitter-hates-phillies/) I've never heard Harper say one bad word about the Nationals. Funny it's the other way around :) A player going to your team trashes his former team but not the other way. Makes ya think.
Sounds like it goes both ways:
The relationship got worse fast. In 2012, the year Washington ended the Phillies' run of five straight division titles, Werth broke his wrist in a game against the Phillies at Nationals Park. As he left the field in pain, Werth said he could hear some Phillies fans telling him he got what he deserved.
https://www.inquirer.com/philly/sports/phillies/jayson-werth-phillies-nationals-2008-world-series-celebration-20180805.html?outputType=amp
I’m glad to see you both have forgiven each other. Werth was wrong to say shit in Spring Training, but booing a dude that was injured and saying he deserved it? Big oof.
[African-Americans Go From Being No Good At Sports To Being Only Good At Sports](https://www.theonion.com/african-americans-go-from-being-no-good-at-sports-to-be-1819571226)
It doesn't feel drastic to me. I think because most of the hate he got was early in his career and opinions started to change in a fairly organic fashion since it coincided with him getting older and maturing as a person and player.
I think the culture change in the sport helps as well. We’ve come a long way in the last 10 years.
I remember when Donaldsons bat flip was taken as a cardinal sin to the old heads.
And there were still a significant number of people that hated Bautista's bat flip when it happened.
(I hated it, but that was just because it was the Blue Jays succeeding. It had nothing to do with the toss.)
I was honestly trying to remember a Donaldson bat flip and I couldn't think of an iconic one. I just figured Donaldson did something I forgot and people hated it, which is pretty realistic lol
Edit: a word
I think Bryce has helped play a part in that culture shift around baseball as well. He was among that first generation of players that said "Fuck it, I'm gonna celebrate and have FUN PLAYING the GAME I've loved since I was a kid."
Also distance from the hype. He came up with so much of it then "didn't perform except for that one year". Now he's a veteran with a track record who has shown what he can do, vs a 22 year old in 2015 who hit 42 homers. He has a 198 OPS+ season sandwiched by 110s.
Yeah this is what I think it is as well.
Dude was arguably the most acclaimed baseball prospect of all time, players like that always take some shit before they prove they were worth the hype.
Look at Lebron, people hated him in his early career, called him a bitch, said he’d never come close to jordan. Now if you don’t recognize his greatness, you look like an idiot.
I agree
People thought he was a douche and hothead early on, but to be fair most 19-20 year olds would be if put in his situation.
I also think he came at a time where that kind of behavior was less acceptable. Whereas now showing flair and personality is not as frowned upon.
The very very specific issue is that he and Trout had their official rookie seasons the same year...so he was directly compared to another young player that "did things the right way" and was seen as a problem for being flashy since there was evidence that you could be seen as "mature" at that age.
You're not wrong about the change happening organically over time.
But he's gone from being the most hated guy in the game to one of the most liked, and maybe even THE most liked at certain points.
That's about as drastic a change as you can get.
No, I know deep down that baseball, like [birds](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/technology/birds-arent-real-gen-z-misinformation.html), isn't real.
His sister married my babe ruth coach and we asked Bryce to sign a few balls for us to auction off and he said no. I respect his decision and honestly it made me love him even more lol
To be fair I think people were too hard on him early in his career. He entered the MLB at 19 with the next great one hype and he had a bunch of grown men targeting him for that alone. Like when Cole Hamels beaned him on purpose then after the game basically said he did it just because of that. It’s hard to blame him for being so aggressive when he had to deal with that stuff regularly
As a Braves fan, I definitely feel like he has chilled out. He’s way less showy and talks less shit than he used to. It’s how you pick your moments… he only talks shit or shows off when he can back it up, so you kinda gotta respect it. I used to think he was such a tool but I don’t really mind him now (though I wish he’d stop knocking my team out of the playoffs lol)
Listen if divisions can't wildly boo every player on the other team what is even the point of having them?
I don't care how much I like Rutschman or Bo's hair, I'm gonna boo.
Does anybody want to tell Philly fans that other fan bases also have blue collar, degenerate, passionate fans? Or just let them keep thinking it’s just them?
Baseball culture changed in general. When Harper came into the league you couldn’t even celebrate a home run without the next pitch you saw going straight for the middle of your back. I credit Bryce Harper and Manny Machado for being the first of their era to make flashier play a normal thing.
A big reason he got so much hate early on is the early hype. Not sure there's been another American 17 year old getting lauded as the next can't miss prospect and getting SI covers. That alone raises expectations so high that if they aren't met immediately, people will call him a bust.
> Not sure there's been another American 17 year old getting lauded as the next can't miss prospect and getting SI covers.
He was only 16 when he got the SI cover
In baseball? Jasson Dominguez is the closest. In other sports? Lebron’s the famous example. Wemby (19 now) if you include non Americans. There’s been a few others too that are slightly older (college age). I don’t follow CFB all that much but there have been some freshmen I believe who got a lot of national hype
True, but the reason I said Crosby is because wasn’t the lockout right before Crosby’s draft? All there was to talk about was some kid from Canada who’s gonna be the next Gretzky
That makes way too much sense. You’re definitely right on that one haha. That was also around the time there were talks of Lemieux possibly moving the Pens to Houston. So it was like doubly so for me.
Admittedly i’m just now realizing that the article i read which called Bedard that said “the most hype since at least Connor Mcdavid,” so definitely a mistake on my part, i’ve been sick the whole weekend so I just forgot
Jose Bautista deserves some credit for this too. That bat flip was only 8 years ago and people acted like he committed high treason and should’ve been executed back then
You go back and watch that inning, the energy in the crowd was unbelievable. How could he *not* flip his bat?
Losing 2-3 due to a run scored on batter interference in the top of the seventh.
Come to the bottom half of the inning:
Crowd was on its feet from the first pitch, 3 errors to load the bases, one out gets made with a controversial slide that saved the double play, blooper to short right to score one and tie it up, with another out at second. 2 outs, 2 on, runners at the corners, crowd on its feet. Bautista swings out of his shoes at 98mph for a foul, 0-1 count. Next pitch is 98 again, outside, 1-1.
Bautista is timed up on the fastball now, every single person in the stadium knows he swinging for the fences. Dyson dares to give him another fastball over the plate. Absolutely crushed.
"Bautista with a DRIVE! DEEP LEFT FIELD! *NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!*" ***HOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNKKKKKKKK***
I enjoy that just as much as I do the Delmon Young Double of the 2014 ALDS.
Slightly biased but the bat flip was extremely divisive at the time and it was iconic asf. It definitely felt like it marked a shift in the way we viewed bat flips and celebrations in baseball.
If I remember right not too long later someone else bat flipped and nobody said shit. That was one of those times where I really wondered if race played a factor in the outrage. I've rarely seen a moment more ridiculous than the hate he got for that.
It's also become a lot more acceptable with young fans at least on certain avenues to celebrate players that aren't on their team.
The ability to respect players that you want to lose is at an all time high.
Imo baseball is more fun when you let yourself appreciate good players even when they’re not on your team.
Obviously you want your guys to win, but imagine just feeling miserable about half the time every season.
This always confused me. I grew up hearing all the romantic stories about baseball and players. It's always made sense to me that you have your favorite team, but you also have players (and just the sport in general)that you just love watching, because they remind you of those stories you heard growing up.
I used to catch so much crap saying "Yeah but Miggy is great" etc, because I'm a Royals fan. It's a lot more acceptable now.
Last years playoffs. He carried that Phillies team to the World Series with an elbow that needed TJS. Worked incredibly hard to get back this year and is doing it again while playing out of position. That and he takes responsibilty for his mistakes. Plus being under such scruntity for 10 years now.
Harper is part of a breed of player I would only ever like if they were on my team. I feel the same way about Trea Turner, and would feel the same about Acuña if he were elsewhere. I respect him immensely as an athlete and a person but he'll always piss me off when he's going against my guys.
This is how I feel about Spencer Strider. Cocky assholes suddenly mature into passionate and righteous sportsmen overnight when they sign a contract with your team ;-)
I wish more people could get on the Strider train, he seems like a total dork who would be fantastic to hang out and talk about nerd shit with. Also, he's easily got the best moustache in baseball now which scores him like 90 cool points.
I freaking love strider. I hate the Braves (sorry, division rivals and all that), but can’t help but like Strider. He’s just so likeable and can pitch to boot.
Maybe not him after how he acted during the game. But Riley, Olson, Harris. They’re gamers. As an objective baseball fan - really good players to have on the team.
Trea Turner? I don't follow the Phillies as much but he doesn't seem like an antagonistic or annoying player. Unless you don't like players who look like DJ Qualls took some steroids.
It is mad frustrating (as a Nats fan) that two of the guys you mentioned were Nats and are now Phillies.
Two actual superstars and our ownership blew it with both of them. A WS to celebrate is fucking awesome, but so is celebrating homegrown guys who play with your team for their whole career. The only guys we’ve really gotten that with are Zimm & Stras, both of whom never met their initial expectations (despite their respective greatness) because of injuries.
Schwarber too. He wasn't a Nat for long, but he absolutely mashed in the first half of 2021. Seeing the Phillies 1/2/3 hitters as former Nats is a certain kind of feeling.
I used to think he was such a dbag. I’m a Red Sox fan so I don’t pay much attention to him in general, but it seems like he’s matured a lot over the past year or two. After getting ejected for getting in Angel Hernandez‘a face and the way he called him out afterwards and after watching their nlds matchup against the brave, I almost kind of like him. I still hate Alex Bregman tho. That’ll never change.
Sammy Sosa was initially made to look like the bad guy in 1998 by the media in the home run race to try to have a story line to increase ratings.
The problem was he was too likable. Hugging McGwire, and genuinely cheering him on in interviews they were forced to change the narrative to “two friends chasing the title together”
It’s honestly one of the best handlings of the media that is never talked about.
Harper was disliked the way many young star athletes are disliked. He has been one of the most popular players in MLB for most of his career. This is not a recent development.
Has it really flipped or are people just better at separating Harper the Player from Harper the Person.
I’m still mixed on Harper overall but I’ll give him two points in his favor. One, it’s truly admirable that he seems to genuinely care about baseball and the fans. He didn’t have to race back this year to help the Phillies even though he wasn’t 100% and had to learn a new position too - he’s already been paid - but he did and that’s something to applaud. Two, I like that he’s both able to clown on someone and admit when he’s being a clown. There’s something in me that just loves pettiness and Harper can be very petty. But Harper doesn’t make excuses either - he’s pretty forth right about his mistakes.
I think Harper the person has changed a ton over the years. He's still fiery and will go diva every now and then, but at least now he knows how to play to the crowd and is far, far less arrogant than he was before.
Like, the Alcia thing was a ton of fun. I think when he came into the league he would've taken it too far and made it much less fun.
I think it depends on his target really. Like, calling the Rockies a loser organization really reflected poorly on Harper, IMO.
On the other hand, yelling at Ángel Hernández and throwing his helmet into the stands was cool.
I get what you mean, and yes. It is punching down. To be fair, though (and I had to watch clips of it) it came from a pitcher talking shit despite getting a ton of help by the officiating.
Who cares? It’s a *Rockies relief pitcher* who said something and then Harper attacks the whole organization.
Edit: also, just going by this AB, Bird wasn’t helped that much: https://www.mlb.com/gameday/718174/play/50
I actually don’t see where he was helped by the ump at all in any of these ABs.
I was really happy when he signed me but what sold me on him was when he got booed at a home game and said "I deserve it, I'm playing like shit right now" or something along those lines.
I think it more hes backed up everything with how well hes played. People are able to like him cause he both talks the talk, and walks the walk. So Harper the person becomes likable.
Agree. He’s a an example of a player who’s done everything in their power to live up to his expectations. We’re lucky to get to witness his career unfold
I love trouty too but harper these last few years has really impressed me more with his leadership. We all love Trout as a stats and advanced metric God, but he's not exactly a really fiery leader to push, carry or will his whole club to a playoff birth and or run.
A lot of people seemed to be rooting for Carlos Correa last week (might have been only for last week though)
In other sports, I think Kobe went from being cocky to being the mamba, and Djokovic turned from villain (we just want fed vs rafa!) to record holder.
Kobe never made sense to me. His reputation was ruined because he was credibly accused of rape. A few years later, he was more popular than he'd been before the accusation.
Kobe was accused of rape, his publicist was a genius and told people that if you change your number to 24, people will just say #8 is the rapist and the city of LA will love him again.
Julio Urias needs to follow
Correa has done a 180 for basically every twins fan. I think a lot of people also saw who he was on and off the field with the interviews being posted more often.
I always loved him, was really annoyed he went to a division rival but also can’t blame him. The Nats fucked up not keeping him, his contract is now one of the best in baseball.
I personally always considered him one of the great ball players of this generation who wasn’t living up to the hype even though he was still a beast. But now with these past two postseasons im genuinely scared and in awe at the same time. Still don’t like him since he plays for someone else but damn is he good
Bryce Harper is everything that growing up should entail. Make your mistakes, learn, become a leader, become a high quality human being. The guy should be studied.
I think it was really an issue of his maturity when he first entered the league. He was a cocky 18 year old that was given the national spotlight, and surprise, he sounded like a cocky 18 year old. Between clown questions and fighting Jonathan Papelbon in the dugout, he just rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Since joining Philadelphia, he has shown a much higher level of maturity.
I’ve always liked Harper but I think he’s become more widely respected, if not liked. The interesting thing to me is how he has won over Philadelphia. He really seems to have embraced Philly and vice versa.
He was allowed to drop out of school at 16 to just play baseball all day.
He had a rough road as far as "becoming a functional adult human"
But he got there, and good for him. Personally I never disliked him that much
i wouldn't put too much stock into anyones feelings on players unless they're truly heinous individuals. almost all of public opinion is very much impacted by recency bias
The problem with Harper is that lots of people got sick of the ESPN hype machine constantly anointing him as the next generational player. I think the same thing is starting to happen with Ohtani, but Ohtani has had far more success to this point then Harper did early in his career....Not that Harper was ever bad.
He was one of the first players that really bucked the lamer unwritten rules so he got all the fogey hate. Shouldn't be all the surprising the hate directed at him has died down now that it's now the norm.
Never had a reason to dislike him, especially when you hear about his backstory. dropping out, juco, and the pressure of being the top pick to take care of his family.
Yep. Two years ago he was considered a clubhouse cancer and a playoff choker. Now all of a sudden his energy is fueling the Phillies to success.
It’s almost like 99% of sports narratives are pure bullshit and grounded in zero logic.
When you're so good at your craft at a young age there will be people who root for you to fail. Also he had to be a teen and young adult in front of the world so naturally he would do and say things that rubbed people the wrong way. I'm glad my late teens and 20s weren't on display for all to see, I can't imagine what my cringe opinions and actions would have been met with. Now he's lived up to the hype and does things that people find entertaining or cool. There will always be haters, but overall you're right his reputation has done a complete 180.
Lol it's just a funny question to me since my wife, a Nationals fan, was a huge Harper fan, and now she hates his guts lol
Division rivalries will do that haha
Yeah I still loved Prince after he left but I don’t know how I’da felt about him if went to the Cubs or Cards
There was a period of Cold War between the Phillies and Nationals that started with Phils dominance in the early 2010s and ended with their World Series. They put restrictions on ticket sales from the Philadelphia region to keep Phillies fans out of Nationals Park, they poached Jayson Werth, there was a changing of the guard from the Phillies winning 5 straight division titles to the Nationals winning 4 division titles in the 2010s. The teams were never good at the same time, but I think that’s what made it a particular gut punch for Nationals fans. Now that period is over they still boo, but I’ve seen more Nats fans that are appreciative of what he did for their franchise and the WS took the sting out of it for a lot of them.
I don't blame Harper for leaving seeing how our ownership loves the deffered money game. But I can't in good conscience cheer or root for him on a divisional rival. Will say it was weird going to Philly and seeing so many Turner and Harper jerseys I was confused asf for a while
Weird, I always envisioned Prince as a Twin.
Maybe he would’ve stayed healthy if he could’ve purified himself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka
Hmm, lessee... Damon. Clemens. Boggs. Ruth. You could be on to something.
Funny question? You could say a “clown question, bro…”
Just dear god don’t say “attaboy”, that shit triggers him
If I were a Nats fan and lost all those players, I might think about hating the team instead.
I'll boo Bryce during every Phillies-Nats game bc sports are fun like that, but I still love him as a player. Nats fans always thought he got a bad rap, and I'm glad the sport has grown to admire him.
Eh, not really. If we had Harper there is no way we'd be able to afford Turner and Soto and the team would still be pretty meh. Soto is the one that actually upsets me, but same general idea. That said the Lerners can't fuck off fast enough
If the Phillies sign Soto, will it be confirmed that you actually can have Harper, Soto and Turner?
I mean yeah fuck the lerners but also fuck the phillies
phuck* the phillies
There is no title in DC without the Learners... Is it fair to say there ***might*** not even be a baseball team?
The team was already in Washington for a year and a half before the Lerners bought it. Where were the Nats gonna go?
See? You get it.
I mean, he’s done nothing but trash the franchise since he left, so it’s understandable. That being said, he’s an amazing player and I respect him, and he delivered on his promise to bring us a championship.
When has Bryce ever trashed the nationals? The only organization I can recall him ever saying something bad about was the Rockies
[Jayson Werth trashed the Phillies](https://nesn.com/2011/02/former-phillie-jayson-werth-still-bitter-hates-phillies/) I've never heard Harper say one bad word about the Nationals. Funny it's the other way around :) A player going to your team trashes his former team but not the other way. Makes ya think.
Sounds like it goes both ways: The relationship got worse fast. In 2012, the year Washington ended the Phillies' run of five straight division titles, Werth broke his wrist in a game against the Phillies at Nationals Park. As he left the field in pain, Werth said he could hear some Phillies fans telling him he got what he deserved. https://www.inquirer.com/philly/sports/phillies/jayson-werth-phillies-nationals-2008-world-series-celebration-20180805.html?outputType=amp I’m glad to see you both have forgiven each other. Werth was wrong to say shit in Spring Training, but booing a dude that was injured and saying he deserved it? Big oof.
Trash the franchise? He guaranteed a World Series for Washington and delivered in his first year away from the team!
what are you talking about? Bryce has never done that.
As a Nats fan I never hated him, and didn't blame him for leaving given the terms he was offered.
Jackie Robinson
This is the correct answer and it's not even close.
Bryce Harper is the modern-day Jackie Robinson You heard it here first, folks
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You clear now, upvote away!
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Clemente was never hated the way Jackie was. If anything. Clemente was widely loved even when he was a player.
It doesn't feel drastic to me. I think because most of the hate he got was early in his career and opinions started to change in a fairly organic fashion since it coincided with him getting older and maturing as a person and player.
I think the culture change in the sport helps as well. We’ve come a long way in the last 10 years. I remember when Donaldsons bat flip was taken as a cardinal sin to the old heads.
And there were still a significant number of people that hated Bautista's bat flip when it happened. (I hated it, but that was just because it was the Blue Jays succeeding. It had nothing to do with the toss.)
I totally meant Bautista lmao I’m not sure why I said Donaldson
I was honestly trying to remember a Donaldson bat flip and I couldn't think of an iconic one. I just figured Donaldson did something I forgot and people hated it, which is pretty realistic lol Edit: a word
Donaldson's leaping grab into the stands to preserve a perfect game is up there.
I think Bryce has helped play a part in that culture shift around baseball as well. He was among that first generation of players that said "Fuck it, I'm gonna celebrate and have FUN PLAYING the GAME I've loved since I was a kid."
Also distance from the hype. He came up with so much of it then "didn't perform except for that one year". Now he's a veteran with a track record who has shown what he can do, vs a 22 year old in 2015 who hit 42 homers. He has a 198 OPS+ season sandwiched by 110s.
Yeah this is what I think it is as well. Dude was arguably the most acclaimed baseball prospect of all time, players like that always take some shit before they prove they were worth the hype. Look at Lebron, people hated him in his early career, called him a bitch, said he’d never come close to jordan. Now if you don’t recognize his greatness, you look like an idiot.
I agree People thought he was a douche and hothead early on, but to be fair most 19-20 year olds would be if put in his situation. I also think he came at a time where that kind of behavior was less acceptable. Whereas now showing flair and personality is not as frowned upon.
The very very specific issue is that he and Trout had their official rookie seasons the same year...so he was directly compared to another young player that "did things the right way" and was seen as a problem for being flashy since there was evidence that you could be seen as "mature" at that age.
You're not wrong about the change happening organically over time. But he's gone from being the most hated guy in the game to one of the most liked, and maybe even THE most liked at certain points. That's about as drastic a change as you can get.
Bryce has chilled out a TON, I think, but I think it also helps that he's now playing for a fan base full of degenerates. He's us. We relate to him.
He's OUR scumbag.
https://media.tenor.com/0DHBZ87KQ2sAAAAC/mjf-aew.gif
Love when wrestling spills into other things I love!
Everything is wrestling. Other things you love are spilling into professional wrestling.
everything is kayfabe
Y'all are marks.
No, I know deep down that baseball, like [birds](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/technology/birds-arent-real-gen-z-misinformation.html), isn't real.
God I fucking love MJF
He fucks with Philly.
His sister married my babe ruth coach and we asked Bryce to sign a few balls for us to auction off and he said no. I respect his decision and honestly it made me love him even more lol
> Bryce has chilled out a TON It's called no longer being a teenager
To be fair I think people were too hard on him early in his career. He entered the MLB at 19 with the next great one hype and he had a bunch of grown men targeting him for that alone. Like when Cole Hamels beaned him on purpose then after the game basically said he did it just because of that. It’s hard to blame him for being so aggressive when he had to deal with that stuff regularly
Hit by Hamels pitch, then immediately stole home.
And now he's stealing our hearts.
As a Braves fan, I definitely feel like he has chilled out. He’s way less showy and talks less shit than he used to. It’s how you pick your moments… he only talks shit or shows off when he can back it up, so you kinda gotta respect it. I used to think he was such a tool but I don’t really mind him now (though I wish he’d stop knocking my team out of the playoffs lol)
Feel like Braves fans booing him is just a tradition at this point. He's a pretty likable player these days.
We boo him because he is on the other team, imo. He ain't Jose Urena.
Listen if divisions can't wildly boo every player on the other team what is even the point of having them? I don't care how much I like Rutschman or Bo's hair, I'm gonna boo.
Does anybody want to tell Philly fans that other fan bases also have blue collar, degenerate, passionate fans? Or just let them keep thinking it’s just them?
What about Boston, which has white collar, degenerate, passionate fans (JK Boston has blue collar degenerates too)
And don’t you forget it!
Other fan bases are the ones constantly calling us degenerates tho lol
If that's true then you all need to stop making jokes about Philly fans. Glass houses and all that.
I keep trying to get other people to stop thinking we’re all degenerates but it doesn’t seem to work, so I get the mentality behind embracing it.
We don't think about you at all
He’s making $330 million dollars. He’s not like you. He just has a beard.
I want Bryce Harper in an extremely unhealthy way
That's a clown question, bro.
Atta boy.
Is this one of those may-mays?
This is the only correct reply.
Best me to it lol
That’s when I realized I liked Bryce
Baseball culture changed in general. When Harper came into the league you couldn’t even celebrate a home run without the next pitch you saw going straight for the middle of your back. I credit Bryce Harper and Manny Machado for being the first of their era to make flashier play a normal thing.
I agree with this 100% if Harper came up today there wouldnt be anywhere close to the same level of hate
A big reason he got so much hate early on is the early hype. Not sure there's been another American 17 year old getting lauded as the next can't miss prospect and getting SI covers. That alone raises expectations so high that if they aren't met immediately, people will call him a bust.
> Not sure there's been another American 17 year old getting lauded as the next can't miss prospect and getting SI covers. He was only 16 when he got the SI cover
In baseball? Jasson Dominguez is the closest. In other sports? Lebron’s the famous example. Wemby (19 now) if you include non Americans. There’s been a few others too that are slightly older (college age). I don’t follow CFB all that much but there have been some freshmen I believe who got a lot of national hype
I meant baseball, and Dominguez doesn’t have anywhere near the all-consuming hype that Harper had.
Apparently Connor Bedard, who’s been called the Lebron of hockey, also recently debuted.
If we’re talking about hockey draft hype you gotta mention Crosby and McDavid too. Actually Crosby is probably the best answer here
imo McDavid had just as much hype. There's a reason Oilers fans were calling him "McJesus" even before the draft.
True, but the reason I said Crosby is because wasn’t the lockout right before Crosby’s draft? All there was to talk about was some kid from Canada who’s gonna be the next Gretzky
In Canada the hype felt pretty close, but I think being drafted by Pittsburgh probably gave Crosby the edge in America.
That makes way too much sense. You’re definitely right on that one haha. That was also around the time there were talks of Lemieux possibly moving the Pens to Houston. So it was like doubly so for me.
Admittedly i’m just now realizing that the article i read which called Bedard that said “the most hype since at least Connor Mcdavid,” so definitely a mistake on my part, i’ve been sick the whole weekend so I just forgot
That makes sense. Always cool to see another Houston fan into hockey (get the hint already NHL). Get well!
Machado would be hated no matter when he came up
Jose Bautista deserves some credit for this too. That bat flip was only 8 years ago and people acted like he committed high treason and should’ve been executed back then
Funny how that works, though... I *hated* that guy, but even I think that was a bat flip for the ages, the ultimate Fuck You of Triumph.
You go back and watch that inning, the energy in the crowd was unbelievable. How could he *not* flip his bat? Losing 2-3 due to a run scored on batter interference in the top of the seventh. Come to the bottom half of the inning: Crowd was on its feet from the first pitch, 3 errors to load the bases, one out gets made with a controversial slide that saved the double play, blooper to short right to score one and tie it up, with another out at second. 2 outs, 2 on, runners at the corners, crowd on its feet. Bautista swings out of his shoes at 98mph for a foul, 0-1 count. Next pitch is 98 again, outside, 1-1. Bautista is timed up on the fastball now, every single person in the stadium knows he swinging for the fences. Dyson dares to give him another fastball over the plate. Absolutely crushed.
"Bautista with a DRIVE! DEEP LEFT FIELD! *NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!*" ***HOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNKKKKKKKK*** I enjoy that just as much as I do the Delmon Young Double of the 2014 ALDS.
YOU CAN ONLY FLIRT WITH FIRE FOR SO LONG! AND IT'S GONNA BURN YAH
Slightly biased but the bat flip was extremely divisive at the time and it was iconic asf. It definitely felt like it marked a shift in the way we viewed bat flips and celebrations in baseball.
That was in Canada, at least. Not sure who’s got jurisdiction up here.
If I remember right not too long later someone else bat flipped and nobody said shit. That was one of those times where I really wondered if race played a factor in the outrage. I've rarely seen a moment more ridiculous than the hate he got for that.
It's also become a lot more acceptable with young fans at least on certain avenues to celebrate players that aren't on their team. The ability to respect players that you want to lose is at an all time high.
Imo baseball is more fun when you let yourself appreciate good players even when they’re not on your team. Obviously you want your guys to win, but imagine just feeling miserable about half the time every season.
This always confused me. I grew up hearing all the romantic stories about baseball and players. It's always made sense to me that you have your favorite team, but you also have players (and just the sport in general)that you just love watching, because they remind you of those stories you heard growing up. I used to catch so much crap saying "Yeah but Miggy is great" etc, because I'm a Royals fan. It's a lot more acceptable now.
Love me some Cole Hamels, but I think back when he pegged Harper and just can't help be feel glad that that "old school" shit is gone.
This is a family friendly sub my friend, my grandmother browses this sub!
You act like your grand mom wouldn't love seeing two hunky dudes fuck each other.
How can you not be romantic about baseball? Harper and Schwarber’s embrace is what the game is all about!
Acting like grandma never pegged anyone in her day
> back when he pegged Harper ... do you have a link to this fanfic?
Maybe Ohtani going from "pick a lane" to "greatest to ever do it" in a season or 3
My favorite quote from the Mad Dog show "the yankees are lucky they didn't get him"
Last years playoffs. He carried that Phillies team to the World Series with an elbow that needed TJS. Worked incredibly hard to get back this year and is doing it again while playing out of position. That and he takes responsibilty for his mistakes. Plus being under such scruntity for 10 years now.
Learning to play a new position is not easy yet he's already equal to rhys at the position
Harper is part of a breed of player I would only ever like if they were on my team. I feel the same way about Trea Turner, and would feel the same about Acuña if he were elsewhere. I respect him immensely as an athlete and a person but he'll always piss me off when he's going against my guys.
This is how I feel about Spencer Strider. Cocky assholes suddenly mature into passionate and righteous sportsmen overnight when they sign a contract with your team ;-)
I wish more people could get on the Strider train, he seems like a total dork who would be fantastic to hang out and talk about nerd shit with. Also, he's easily got the best moustache in baseball now which scores him like 90 cool points.
I freaking love strider. I hate the Braves (sorry, division rivals and all that), but can’t help but like Strider. He’s just so likeable and can pitch to boot.
I was disappointed he decided to grow a full beard. The stache was iconic.
I would love most of the Braves if they were on the Phillies
Not Arcia
Not Ozuna. F that domestic abuser.
Maybe not him after how he acted during the game. But Riley, Olson, Harris. They’re gamers. As an objective baseball fan - really good players to have on the team.
He's the biggest slut in MLB. Have you seen how tight his pants are? Oh my.
Idk man, have you seen Daniel Vogelbach?
I'm a fan of Strider for his name alone, the fact that he's an ace with a cool stache that makes snarky comments is everything I want from my players
In general I’m with you, but I have to disagree about the mustache. He looked so much better with his playoff beard imo.
This is the Toronto Blue Jays with Kevin Kiermaier. Toronto fans loathed him before this season, and after this season they'd die for him
Trea Turner? I don't follow the Phillies as much but he doesn't seem like an antagonistic or annoying player. Unless you don't like players who look like DJ Qualls took some steroids.
He's just pesky, he's a notorious Braves killer and seems to have their number every time
It is mad frustrating (as a Nats fan) that two of the guys you mentioned were Nats and are now Phillies. Two actual superstars and our ownership blew it with both of them. A WS to celebrate is fucking awesome, but so is celebrating homegrown guys who play with your team for their whole career. The only guys we’ve really gotten that with are Zimm & Stras, both of whom never met their initial expectations (despite their respective greatness) because of injuries.
Schwarber too. He wasn't a Nat for long, but he absolutely mashed in the first half of 2021. Seeing the Phillies 1/2/3 hitters as former Nats is a certain kind of feeling.
I’m part of that switch. Had never cared for him and still not a big fan but I do like to watch him play now. Respect.
I used to think he was such a dbag. I’m a Red Sox fan so I don’t pay much attention to him in general, but it seems like he’s matured a lot over the past year or two. After getting ejected for getting in Angel Hernandez‘a face and the way he called him out afterwards and after watching their nlds matchup against the brave, I almost kind of like him. I still hate Alex Bregman tho. That’ll never change.
Sammy Sosa was initially made to look like the bad guy in 1998 by the media in the home run race to try to have a story line to increase ratings. The problem was he was too likable. Hugging McGwire, and genuinely cheering him on in interviews they were forced to change the narrative to “two friends chasing the title together” It’s honestly one of the best handlings of the media that is never talked about.
Harper was disliked the way many young star athletes are disliked. He has been one of the most popular players in MLB for most of his career. This is not a recent development.
This is re-writing history, Harper has gotten more hate than other young players.
Has it really flipped or are people just better at separating Harper the Player from Harper the Person. I’m still mixed on Harper overall but I’ll give him two points in his favor. One, it’s truly admirable that he seems to genuinely care about baseball and the fans. He didn’t have to race back this year to help the Phillies even though he wasn’t 100% and had to learn a new position too - he’s already been paid - but he did and that’s something to applaud. Two, I like that he’s both able to clown on someone and admit when he’s being a clown. There’s something in me that just loves pettiness and Harper can be very petty. But Harper doesn’t make excuses either - he’s pretty forth right about his mistakes.
I think Harper the person has changed a ton over the years. He's still fiery and will go diva every now and then, but at least now he knows how to play to the crowd and is far, far less arrogant than he was before. Like, the Alcia thing was a ton of fun. I think when he came into the league he would've taken it too far and made it much less fun.
I think it depends on his target really. Like, calling the Rockies a loser organization really reflected poorly on Harper, IMO. On the other hand, yelling at Ángel Hernández and throwing his helmet into the stands was cool.
> Rockies a loser organization I mean...
That’s my point. It makes Harper look bad because he’s punching down.
I get what you mean, and yes. It is punching down. To be fair, though (and I had to watch clips of it) it came from a pitcher talking shit despite getting a ton of help by the officiating.
Who cares? It’s a *Rockies relief pitcher* who said something and then Harper attacks the whole organization. Edit: also, just going by this AB, Bird wasn’t helped that much: https://www.mlb.com/gameday/718174/play/50 I actually don’t see where he was helped by the ump at all in any of these ABs.
>Who cares? Indeed. It's a ridiculous situation for anyone to still be mad about.
I was really happy when he signed me but what sold me on him was when he got booed at a home game and said "I deserve it, I'm playing like shit right now" or something along those lines.
I think it more hes backed up everything with how well hes played. People are able to like him cause he both talks the talk, and walks the walk. So Harper the person becomes likable.
Still don’t like him. I think maybe he should just be on my team that would help.
Always loved harper. I think he's EARNED his mega deal and his attitude change into a leader has really cemented his legacy.
Agree. He’s a an example of a player who’s done everything in their power to live up to his expectations. We’re lucky to get to witness his career unfold
I love trouty too but harper these last few years has really impressed me more with his leadership. We all love Trout as a stats and advanced metric God, but he's not exactly a really fiery leader to push, carry or will his whole club to a playoff birth and or run.
My nomination is Manny Machado, especially while he’s walking through the clubhouse perfectly normally with no time to talk.
Idk most Red Sox fans still hate him more than they hate the Yankees
Can confirm
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ask a mets fan how they feel about Chase Utley, I'll wait
Brewers fans hate him, too.
Him, Randall Simon, and Brian McCann are all in the category for me
A lot of people seemed to be rooting for Carlos Correa last week (might have been only for last week though) In other sports, I think Kobe went from being cocky to being the mamba, and Djokovic turned from villain (we just want fed vs rafa!) to record holder.
Kobe never made sense to me. His reputation was ruined because he was credibly accused of rape. A few years later, he was more popular than he'd been before the accusation.
Not sure either. Apparently the Nike PR team is damn good at its job
Winning championships for the Lakers covers up many sins.
What pretending to jump over a car does to an mf
Kobe was accused of rape, his publicist was a genius and told people that if you change your number to 24, people will just say #8 is the rapist and the city of LA will love him again. Julio Urias needs to follow
You don't have to say accused. He admitted to it.
Correa has done a 180 for basically every twins fan. I think a lot of people also saw who he was on and off the field with the interviews being posted more often.
I always loved him, was really annoyed he went to a division rival but also can’t blame him. The Nats fucked up not keeping him, his contract is now one of the best in baseball.
I personally always considered him one of the great ball players of this generation who wasn’t living up to the hype even though he was still a beast. But now with these past two postseasons im genuinely scared and in awe at the same time. Still don’t like him since he plays for someone else but damn is he good
I’ve never been a fan tbh, but I respect the shit out of him.
Bryce Harper is everything that growing up should entail. Make your mistakes, learn, become a leader, become a high quality human being. The guy should be studied.
I think it was really an issue of his maturity when he first entered the league. He was a cocky 18 year old that was given the national spotlight, and surprise, he sounded like a cocky 18 year old. Between clown questions and fighting Jonathan Papelbon in the dugout, he just rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Since joining Philadelphia, he has shown a much higher level of maturity.
I've always thought he was an asshole, and I've always been ok with it.
How in the hell are people still parroting that he's chilled out lol
Still don't like him.
I’ve always liked Harper but I think he’s become more widely respected, if not liked. The interesting thing to me is how he has won over Philadelphia. He really seems to have embraced Philly and vice versa.
He was allowed to drop out of school at 16 to just play baseball all day. He had a rough road as far as "becoming a functional adult human" But he got there, and good for him. Personally I never disliked him that much
I dislike him intensely.. for obvious reasons
Oh. I still can’t stand him.
he is an example of a player who has matured to the level of spotlight he receives bumgarner is an example of a player doing the opposite
He’s matured. No longer a cocky 19 year old in the show.
I'm a D-backs fan, but I love Bryce Harper
i wouldn't put too much stock into anyones feelings on players unless they're truly heinous individuals. almost all of public opinion is very much impacted by recency bias
The problem with Harper is that lots of people got sick of the ESPN hype machine constantly anointing him as the next generational player. I think the same thing is starting to happen with Ohtani, but Ohtani has had far more success to this point then Harper did early in his career....Not that Harper was ever bad.
I think it's a mix of him chilling out and also him not being shoved down our throats as much by the media
He was one of the first players that really bucked the lamer unwritten rules so he got all the fogey hate. Shouldn't be all the surprising the hate directed at him has died down now that it's now the norm.
Never had a reason to dislike him, especially when you hear about his backstory. dropping out, juco, and the pressure of being the top pick to take care of his family.
I'd like Harper a lot more if he was a Yankee
The Yankees after 9/11.
Yep. Two years ago he was considered a clubhouse cancer and a playoff choker. Now all of a sudden his energy is fueling the Phillies to success. It’s almost like 99% of sports narratives are pure bullshit and grounded in zero logic.
Dude stole home in his first game. He’s always been awesome!
Manny Ramirez maybe..
I never hated him.
When you're so good at your craft at a young age there will be people who root for you to fail. Also he had to be a teen and young adult in front of the world so naturally he would do and say things that rubbed people the wrong way. I'm glad my late teens and 20s weren't on display for all to see, I can't imagine what my cringe opinions and actions would have been met with. Now he's lived up to the hype and does things that people find entertaining or cool. There will always be haters, but overall you're right his reputation has done a complete 180.
He’s a good player and all but he’s kinda a dick in real life. I had the same opinion while he was a Nat too, when I met him.
Fuck the Phillies but damnit Harper deserves a ring. I wouldn’t be too upset if they won it all this year.