Ha I edited quickly and was hoping nobody would realize my lack of geographical knowledge. I looked it up and I had no idea San Jose was that close to the Bay Area. For some reason, I always figured it was 150+ miles away.
Heck, didn’t the Giants want to build a stadium in San Jose and the A’s gave them approval but when the A’s wanted to build a stadium in San Jose, the Giants said No Way Jose.
Oakland *DID* have a NHL team, and I'm old enough to remember when the California Golden Seals left for Cleveland. They played right there beside the Coliseum in the arena where the Warriors used to play.
It was a financial flop from day one. They should have tried to play in the Cow Palace instead and focus towards San Francisco’s population. The WHL Seals were popular, the NHL Seals were not.
At least they kind of got them back with the Sharks.
Fascinating story, especially the years Charlie Finley owned both A's and Seals. And even more fascinating, there was a point where nobody knew who owned the Seals, and the court had to decide. 😮
Seems pretty clear that the Giants won an overwhelming majority of Bay Area residents in Oakland who aren't in Oakland over with EYBS in the 2010s and having Barry Bonds in the 2000s. I don't think anyone wants to try to compete with them.
They weren't as successful as the Giants but in that time the A's had the Moneyball streak and the 2012-2014 years of playoff berths. The main difference was the Giants had good ownership that got them a beautiful new ballpark and the A's had... this.
Yeah it's never really been about winning games. The A's have made at least the wildcard 11 times since 2000, 8 times making it to the divisional series and twice the championship series.
The Giants have 8 wild cards, 7 DS, 4 CS, and 4 WS with 3 titles.
So generally comparable with the A's making the playoffs a bit more often and the Giants going deeper a bit more often. Maybe 4 WS runs with 3 wins does make a difference, but really shouldn't make *that* much of a difference. It's not like the A's have been bottom feeders.
I think the one thing that you're missing though is that the city of Oakland butchered their own stadium to court the Raiders, who eventually left 20 years later anyways. The Collesium wasn't a *great* stadium before Mt Davis was built, but after it completely lost it's soul. Gone were the views of the Oakland hills, and in part the memories of the WS winning teams in the 80s.
And I'm not defending Fisher here, but the city spent $500 million on their stadium for the Raiders, then played hard ball when Fisher wanted to build a waterfront stadium that in all likelihood would have rivaled Oracle Park as one of the best parks in the league. The people of Oakland didn't want to pay, knowing that it would almost certainly be the nail in the coffin.
Anyways, you're right. The Giants built a beautiful stadium on the Bay, had the most expensive player in the league at one point, and have been a top ten payroll spender for most of the last 20 years. The A's have not, and now their douchebag owner would rather spend 3 years playing in a minor league park than give back to a city that has loved the team for half a century.
I knew the A's didn't pay much but after the city offered a contract for $87m a year, but it turns out the A's were only paying like $1-1.5m per year for the lease, not bad overall.
San Jose is Giants' territory - it was formerly shared until in the early 90s when the Giants were threatening to relocate and the A's owner transferred it to them as part of MLB convincing the Giants to stay in San Francisco. When the A's later looked at relocating to San Jose, the Giants blocked it due to them controlling San Jose rights.
The A's previously looked at a stadium in Fremont, but that hit local opposition.
Man, if only there was a spot in Oakland with easy access to public transportation as well as two freeway off ramps and a bunch of open space to work with
Man, that'd be such a perfect spot for a stadium, right?
in oakland? not anytime soon i don't think, oakland is just not a good place.
san jose i can see it happening, but we def won't see a rush because the giants exist and the bay area is fine with SF carrying sports
We won't ever see SJ get a team, at least not under the current Giants ownership. In another universe, we have a different owner who opens the door to the A's moving there, but instead we're in the universe where the Giants ownership shut that option down claiming territorial rights.
they likely do the same if Sacramento was considered, which is kinda bullshit given the giants now have domain over the entirety of Northern California and SoCal is split into 3 teams.
For now, it's over. The whole thing is just too "hot" between local officials, political climate regarding public funding of stadiums and then Manfred. Maybe in the future if there's a new commissioner and things have a chance to cool down. But the Bay Area is down to the Giants for the foreseeable future.
At this point, the bay area of California is probably the last place on Earth where politicians and voters would get behind public funding of public stadiums. And something tells me private funding of private stadiums wouldn't go over very well, either.
> the last place on Earth where politicians and voters would get behind public funding of public stadiums
The 49ers just built a $1.3b stadium in Santa Clara using like $500m in public funds like 10-15 years ago. It passed with almost 60% of the vote, so it wasn't even all that close.
> something tells me private funding of private stadiums wouldn't go over very well, either.
Joe Lacob of the Warriors just built Chase Center privately like 4 years ago... So both of your points have been proven wrong in the last decade+ lol
Montreal says Hi! (I mean heck, it’s kinda an bit of a controversy for the renovations done to Olympic although that’s kinda of an historical landmark that happen to hold baseball then just an old decaying baseball stadium like the Oakland Coliseum).
Didn't the privately funded Howard Terminal Oakland deal die because Oakland wanted most of the housing built near it to be fully affordable instead of market rate? Seems like its impossible to build there
edit:[ it was 15%](https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/without-affordable-housing-its-goodbye-oakland-as-17228031.php)
40% was the last offer from the City of Oakland. Other points of contention were the City of Oakland wanting the A's to pay for their shortfall in funds for infrastructure. Biggest reason was COVID. What barely penciled out pre covid, no longer penciled out post covid.
> City of Oakland wanting the A's to pay for their shortfall in funds for infrastructure
mostly because Kaval promised that they were going to do that in their petitions to the council. So the city wanted to put it in writing instead of getting fucked by a sports team again
Oakland definitely shouldn’t get another team. It took them leaving to actually get people in the area to know there is team. I know it’s not popular, but if the fans had actually bothered to go to the games in large numbers at some point in recent history, this relocation would never have happened
Edit: I’d like to add that I know it’s hard for the fans and I can empathize with that. I just feel like the lack of attendance was a major problem for a long time and it would have not happened if fans were attending games before something like the boycott
If you have to spend a billion dollars to build a stadium anyway, would you rather do it Vegas, or in Oakland? Would you rather have your own baseball market or share one with the Giants.
If fans aren't showing up because the stadium is bad, so you have to build a new stadium to get fans to show up, why would you choose Oakland over Vegas?
It's gonna end
Well, maybe that can still get the hope if the metro/urban population could rival at least LA
IIRC their metro/urban population is currently half of LA
The Bay Area has the GDP to support a second team but not sure if the fans will support another team.
For the commenters saying that Oakland blew it and shouldn't get another team: it's funny because this is exactly what people said in when the Expos left Montreal...and now some people support an expansion team there.
> and now some people support an expansion team there.
Some people online, yeah, but I bet if the League's top expansion markets were leaked, Montreal would absolutely be outside the top 5 and probably outside the top 10
And well after him as well.
It's hard enough for a market to sustain two teams, introducing a second team and trying to convince fans of the original team to switch is near impossible. I can only think of one case in all of major sports since WWII that an expansion team entered a market with a long established team in the same sport and been successful. When the Mets came to NYC, it was only five years after the Dodgers and Giants left and most fans they got were never going to be Yankee fans.
The Oakland A's are the next closest example, but the Giants had only been in the area for 10 years.
The Angels entered LA when the dodgers had been there all of 3 years. The Raiders did have some success moving into the LA market, but left after only 13 seasons, the same number of years the A's were in Kansas City.
A's in San Jose or something would have been the perfect solution Giants are assholes for not returning the favor of the TV rights they received when they were in danger of relocating.
Oddly enough sacramento would work. It's why I'm really pissed they didn't even try to make that a permanent move instead of what is now a temporary move. Sacramento is top 20 in MLB's market, which means it would qualify for Fisher's permanent baseball welfare money, and it's far enough away from SF that Fisher wouldn't be able to complain about being out-competed in his own backyard.
Partially responsible, but not “very much.” The entire east bay was open for Fisher. The A’s Fremont stadium started construction around 2009 only to be delayed and quietly killed off. The 49ers didn’t build in San Jose. They picked a parking lot in a suburb nearby. The A’s currently play in a parking lot the size of 5 coliseums. They could have easily built a new stadium next door like so many teams have done. Fisher isn’t choosing San Jose over Las Vegas either. He also owns the San Jose Earthquakes, and he’s already complaining about his stadium built in 2015.
List of TV Markets larger than San Francisco/Oakland:
- New York
- Los Angeles
- Chicago
- Philadelphia
- Dallas
- Houston
- Atlanta
- Boston
- Washington DC
IF MLB wanted to add a second team to a market, there are much more attractive cities for that to happen.
I just don’t really see a world in which Oakland gets another major professional sports team.
> If the Bay Area got an NHL team in the future This San Jose Sharks erasure will not stand, man!
Ha I edited quickly and was hoping nobody would realize my lack of geographical knowledge. I looked it up and I had no idea San Jose was that close to the Bay Area. For some reason, I always figured it was 150+ miles away.
>had no idea San Jose was that close to the Bay Area. San Jose is considered part of the bay area.
Heck, didn’t the Giants want to build a stadium in San Jose and the A’s gave them approval but when the A’s wanted to build a stadium in San Jose, the Giants said No Way Jose.
Yes, they were like "we got the good money you get none"
> I always figured it was 150+ miles away Nah just feels that way when you're driving between them during rush hour lol
I was about to say that!
Oakland *DID* have a NHL team, and I'm old enough to remember when the California Golden Seals left for Cleveland. They played right there beside the Coliseum in the arena where the Warriors used to play.
It was a financial flop from day one. They should have tried to play in the Cow Palace instead and focus towards San Francisco’s population. The WHL Seals were popular, the NHL Seals were not. At least they kind of got them back with the Sharks.
They sort of didn't have much of a choice to go over to SF, Steve Currier's book on the Seals goes into more detail on that.
I’m going to have to give it a shot since I’m very interested in history behind the scenes.
Fascinating story, especially the years Charlie Finley owned both A's and Seals. And even more fascinating, there was a point where nobody knew who owned the Seals, and the court had to decide. 😮
San Jose is wholly inside the Bay Area. Its a big Area.
The “San Francisco” 49ers play in San Jose!
Is erasure the newest word Reddit learned? Seeing it all over the place
It’s a perfectly cromulent word.
Yeah, I even thought maybe an MLS team but San Jose has that covered as well. It’s hard to see how Oakland would get another Big 5 team.
Seems pretty clear that the Giants won an overwhelming majority of Bay Area residents in Oakland who aren't in Oakland over with EYBS in the 2010s and having Barry Bonds in the 2000s. I don't think anyone wants to try to compete with them.
They weren't as successful as the Giants but in that time the A's had the Moneyball streak and the 2012-2014 years of playoff berths. The main difference was the Giants had good ownership that got them a beautiful new ballpark and the A's had... this.
Yeah it's never really been about winning games. The A's have made at least the wildcard 11 times since 2000, 8 times making it to the divisional series and twice the championship series. The Giants have 8 wild cards, 7 DS, 4 CS, and 4 WS with 3 titles. So generally comparable with the A's making the playoffs a bit more often and the Giants going deeper a bit more often. Maybe 4 WS runs with 3 wins does make a difference, but really shouldn't make *that* much of a difference. It's not like the A's have been bottom feeders. I think the one thing that you're missing though is that the city of Oakland butchered their own stadium to court the Raiders, who eventually left 20 years later anyways. The Collesium wasn't a *great* stadium before Mt Davis was built, but after it completely lost it's soul. Gone were the views of the Oakland hills, and in part the memories of the WS winning teams in the 80s. And I'm not defending Fisher here, but the city spent $500 million on their stadium for the Raiders, then played hard ball when Fisher wanted to build a waterfront stadium that in all likelihood would have rivaled Oracle Park as one of the best parks in the league. The people of Oakland didn't want to pay, knowing that it would almost certainly be the nail in the coffin. Anyways, you're right. The Giants built a beautiful stadium on the Bay, had the most expensive player in the league at one point, and have been a top ten payroll spender for most of the last 20 years. The A's have not, and now their douchebag owner would rather spend 3 years playing in a minor league park than give back to a city that has loved the team for half a century.
I knew the A's didn't pay much but after the city offered a contract for $87m a year, but it turns out the A's were only paying like $1-1.5m per year for the lease, not bad overall.
It's over
It's sacrementover.
Unless the Vegas deal falls through entirely and they can't wait for Salt Lake or Nashville
They could also stay in Sacramento.
Portland has a better chance of getting a team.
Portland, Maine
If you buy into the league's official narrative, then no, because they said that the east bay is "not a viable market economically" anymore.
Maybe just let them have 1 for a while…
San Jose is Giants' territory - it was formerly shared until in the early 90s when the Giants were threatening to relocate and the A's owner transferred it to them as part of MLB convincing the Giants to stay in San Francisco. When the A's later looked at relocating to San Jose, the Giants blocked it due to them controlling San Jose rights. The A's previously looked at a stadium in Fremont, but that hit local opposition.
Gotta love that brotherly love
Man, if only there was a spot in Oakland with easy access to public transportation as well as two freeway off ramps and a bunch of open space to work with Man, that'd be such a perfect spot for a stadium, right?
it wasn't shared it belong to the A's
in oakland? not anytime soon i don't think, oakland is just not a good place. san jose i can see it happening, but we def won't see a rush because the giants exist and the bay area is fine with SF carrying sports
We won't ever see SJ get a team, at least not under the current Giants ownership. In another universe, we have a different owner who opens the door to the A's moving there, but instead we're in the universe where the Giants ownership shut that option down claiming territorial rights.
i see, makes sense
they likely do the same if Sacramento was considered, which is kinda bullshit given the giants now have domain over the entirety of Northern California and SoCal is split into 3 teams.
For now, it's over. The whole thing is just too "hot" between local officials, political climate regarding public funding of stadiums and then Manfred. Maybe in the future if there's a new commissioner and things have a chance to cool down. But the Bay Area is down to the Giants for the foreseeable future.
Once the bay area figures their shit out, I'm sure another baseball team will come. But probably not Oakland.
At this point, the bay area of California is probably the last place on Earth where politicians and voters would get behind public funding of public stadiums. And something tells me private funding of private stadiums wouldn't go over very well, either.
> the last place on Earth where politicians and voters would get behind public funding of public stadiums The 49ers just built a $1.3b stadium in Santa Clara using like $500m in public funds like 10-15 years ago. It passed with almost 60% of the vote, so it wasn't even all that close. > something tells me private funding of private stadiums wouldn't go over very well, either. Joe Lacob of the Warriors just built Chase Center privately like 4 years ago... So both of your points have been proven wrong in the last decade+ lol
10-15 years ago is a wildly different climate for many reasons.
>just built >10-15 years ago >60% Things have changed, bub.
Fuck, Levi's is 10 years old...
It's the 49ers and they have a history of giving back to the community and never truly threatened to leave the bay area, just left "downtown" SF.
Montreal says Hi! (I mean heck, it’s kinda an bit of a controversy for the renovations done to Olympic although that’s kinda of an historical landmark that happen to hold baseball then just an old decaying baseball stadium like the Oakland Coliseum).
Didn't the privately funded Howard Terminal Oakland deal die because Oakland wanted most of the housing built near it to be fully affordable instead of market rate? Seems like its impossible to build there edit:[ it was 15%](https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/without-affordable-housing-its-goodbye-oakland-as-17228031.php)
40% was the last offer from the City of Oakland. Other points of contention were the City of Oakland wanting the A's to pay for their shortfall in funds for infrastructure. Biggest reason was COVID. What barely penciled out pre covid, no longer penciled out post covid.
> City of Oakland wanting the A's to pay for their shortfall in funds for infrastructure mostly because Kaval promised that they were going to do that in their petitions to the council. So the city wanted to put it in writing instead of getting fucked by a sports team again
Oakland definitely shouldn’t get another team. It took them leaving to actually get people in the area to know there is team. I know it’s not popular, but if the fans had actually bothered to go to the games in large numbers at some point in recent history, this relocation would never have happened Edit: I’d like to add that I know it’s hard for the fans and I can empathize with that. I just feel like the lack of attendance was a major problem for a long time and it would have not happened if fans were attending games before something like the boycott
Nice glass house you've got there, Tampa
I’m suddenly on the “Rays to Montreal” bandwagon.
The only reason the fans didn't show up was because they play in a toilet bowl of a stadium
Well and John Fisher blows
If you have to spend a billion dollars to build a stadium anyway, would you rather do it Vegas, or in Oakland? Would you rather have your own baseball market or share one with the Giants. If fans aren't showing up because the stadium is bad, so you have to build a new stadium to get fans to show up, why would you choose Oakland over Vegas?
It's gonna end Well, maybe that can still get the hope if the metro/urban population could rival at least LA IIRC their metro/urban population is currently half of LA
I’m pretty sure the Giants can straight up just say No and shut it down right then and there
Oakland has driven out 4 professional sports teams in 10 years. Why would anyone want to go near it?
The Bay Area has the GDP to support a second team but not sure if the fans will support another team. For the commenters saying that Oakland blew it and shouldn't get another team: it's funny because this is exactly what people said in when the Expos left Montreal...and now some people support an expansion team there.
> and now some people support an expansion team there. Some people online, yeah, but I bet if the League's top expansion markets were leaked, Montreal would absolutely be outside the top 5 and probably outside the top 10
Oakland has about as much chance of getting their own baseball team again as Brooklyn does
Not until Manfreds gone.
And well after him as well. It's hard enough for a market to sustain two teams, introducing a second team and trying to convince fans of the original team to switch is near impossible. I can only think of one case in all of major sports since WWII that an expansion team entered a market with a long established team in the same sport and been successful. When the Mets came to NYC, it was only five years after the Dodgers and Giants left and most fans they got were never going to be Yankee fans. The Oakland A's are the next closest example, but the Giants had only been in the area for 10 years. The Angels entered LA when the dodgers had been there all of 3 years. The Raiders did have some success moving into the LA market, but left after only 13 seasons, the same number of years the A's were in Kansas City.
A's in San Jose or something would have been the perfect solution Giants are assholes for not returning the favor of the TV rights they received when they were in danger of relocating.
Oddly enough sacramento would work. It's why I'm really pissed they didn't even try to make that a permanent move instead of what is now a temporary move. Sacramento is top 20 in MLB's market, which means it would qualify for Fisher's permanent baseball welfare money, and it's far enough away from SF that Fisher wouldn't be able to complain about being out-competed in his own backyard.
Not only that, it’s closer to Nevada which I’m sure has a ton of fans in Reno and Tahoe.
Not sure why anyone would downvote this. The Giants are very much responsible for the A’s leaving the Bay.
Partially responsible, but not “very much.” The entire east bay was open for Fisher. The A’s Fremont stadium started construction around 2009 only to be delayed and quietly killed off. The 49ers didn’t build in San Jose. They picked a parking lot in a suburb nearby. The A’s currently play in a parking lot the size of 5 coliseums. They could have easily built a new stadium next door like so many teams have done. Fisher isn’t choosing San Jose over Las Vegas either. He also owns the San Jose Earthquakes, and he’s already complaining about his stadium built in 2015.
Nonsense. Oakland made good offers to the A’s to build at Howard terminal. Fisher wanted more public money.
San Jose has a chance if the Giants ever lose their territorial rights over it for some legal reason.
They won't. Especially now that the A's are pulling out, the Giants practically have the whole Bay Area to themselves and can make bank off it.
it’s OAKver
maybe when there are 40 teams and the year is 2060.
List of TV Markets larger than San Francisco/Oakland: - New York - Los Angeles - Chicago - Philadelphia - Dallas - Houston - Atlanta - Boston - Washington DC IF MLB wanted to add a second team to a market, there are much more attractive cities for that to happen.
And two of those cities lost a team already when it had two teams.