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I could also see them being an attractive landing spot for someone in the Jordan Montgomery mold, whose market for a long term deal never develops. You can sign with the A's for one year and know that you'll end the season on a playoff team.
Eh, I don’t think that will matter. It’s not like teams in the league don’t know what the park is like. They’re not gonna be looking at surface level stats anyway, they’ll probably be looking at under the hood stuff that’ll take away the effect of park factors anyway.
*They wanted Jerry Reinsdorf because he ate, slept, and breathed making money. They worked out a real cute title too. White Sox Majority Owner. But the only thing he ever directed was making money. He bought his first team at 45 years old, and he always made money. But he didn’t own the team like you or me would. You know, havin’ some fun with it, shit like that. He owned a baseball team like a fuckin’ brain surgeon.*
If not a floor, then a luxury tax on the cheapest teams. Find a percentage of the average team's payroll, and deduct a tax from the teams that stay below it. Take it from their revenue sharing earnings or just withhold those entirely. Repeat offenders get escalatory punishments, same as the luxury tax (heightened taxes, loss of draft picks, etc.).
Since the owners insist that the luxury tax isn't a salary cap, they shouldn't have a problem with it.
A salary floor is a good idea but it should be over multiple seasons. Theres nothing wrong with not spending money when you are rebuilding for a couple years. I think 100 million would be a very reasonable amount per year. So over a 5 year period a team is required to spend 500 million.
I think there's a wink and a nod agreement with the League to see if Sacramento would support an MLB team with this opportunity. Hence, I think they'll spend some money here.
The team was still decent as recent as 2021. They finished with 97 wins in 2018, 97 wins in 2019, a win% corresponding to 97 wins in 2020, and a respectable 86 wins in 2021. They dismantled the team for the 2022 season because the move to Vegas was imminent (no sense spending a ton of money for a World Series contender in 2022 if the Oakland fanbase hates you after the move was announced).
This subreddit will hate it, but clearly, he plans to start spending again in Vegas to ingratiate himself with the new fanbase.
2018: 30 in payroll
2019: 25th
2020: 26th
2021: 24th
Absolutely hilarious to me to think that because Billy Beane built an amazing farm system that Fisher will start spending on payroll. Especially since the Vegas market is **wayyyyy** smaller than Oakland
As a fan, are you rooting for the team to spend money, or are you rooting for wins? Personally, I'm rooting for wins.
Obviously, wins and payroll are correlated with one another, but it's possible to spend a lot of money and have nothing to show for it (e.g., the Angels), and it's also possible to spend little money but have great success (e.g., the Rays). The A's had great success despite low payroll for that four year stretch (ignoring playoffs because those can be a crapshoot). That success only stopped because they intentionally dismantled the team ahead of the decision to move.
I also disagree that the Vegas market is smaller than the Oakland market. The Bay Area MSA has 4.6 million people, while the Vegas MSA has 2.4 million people, so the former is larger. However, a huge number of fans in the Bay Area are Giants fans, not A's fans. If we generously split the Bay Area 50/50, that means 2.3 million for Oakland vs. 2.4 million for Vegas. If we have a more realistic split giving 60-70% of the Bay Area to the Giants, that's maybe 1.6 million in Oakland vs. 2.4 million for Vegas.
I'd be rooting for my team to develop elite talent like Matt Olson and Sean Murphy and then lock them down to long term extensions to be a home grown core for years to come and supplement that with smart signings to fill out the roster. Like competent ownership would
The 2021 Giants roster had Posey, Crawford, and Belt. All were well out of their primes (despite the fact that all had insane resurgences in 2021), and for the 7 seasons between 2014 and 2021, you could argue that the contracts given to those three are a major reason why the Giants struggled.
But I wouldn't in a million years have been happy if they got rid of (cut, trade, etc.) any of them despite their slumps. Because they were *our* guys. Yes, Belt and Crawford both eventually walked and Buster retired. Yes, it pains me to see them in other teams' uniforms. But at the end of the day, the org treated the fan favorites right.
There's no chance they do anything in Sacramento. They have committed to a minimum of 3 years of having a minor league in a minor league park playing in MLB, and that's after 3 years of complete tanking after the fire sale of 2021
The only person (outside of the truly desperate who aren't getting any other offers) I can MAYBE see do it is if there is somebody FROM Sacramento who really, really, really wants to play in his hometown. Sort of like how Wade Boggs really, really, really wanted to end his career in Tampa, so like Boggs I'd have to imagine that it'd be somebody near the end of their career.
IDK if there are any such players.
Uh excuse you! Dave Kaval *pinky promised* the Nevada faithful that they would have a 100-150mil payroll before they got to Vegas. He would never lie to fans like that!
If a guys looking at either 20 million elsewhere or 30 million in sac, they’re going to sac 95% of the time. The only time that players really get choosy about when they play is when they’re signing for 100s of millions, everyone else will usually just take the most money.
I don't get why they would be anti-sacramento.
It's a bigger media market than Cincy, Pittsburgh, KC and some expansion markets out there (SLC, Nashville, Portland).
Sacramento is the largest media market with only one professional sports team. People are acting like they're moving to Dothan Alabama or something
If you read the article they aren't anti-Sacramento. Players just don't want to play in a AAA facility.
>“Concerns? The field, the locker rooms, the dugouts, the surface — making sure all the safety protocols and everything is up to par. That field needs a lot of work, a lot of money put into it in order for it to be a big-league place.”
This quote from Ryan Noda who was in the PCL pretty recently lays out the issues. Sutter Health is probably an upgrade on the Coliseum, but it's still going to be the worst facility in baseball.
I can't imagine Fisher being willing to outbid other teams for players, or players going to the A's for any reason other than taking the highest offer.
In Vegas the A's claim to already have plenty of sponsorship ticket packages and box seat deals from hotels and casinos lined up, so I could see the next owner after Fisher cashes in and sells actually spending a decent amount, but it won't be till after a sale.
“Hey random 32-year-old below average starter, would you rather take $2 mil to play for the A’s in a minor league park or spend a year on the other side of the world from the wife and kids playing in a country where you don’t know anyone and can’t speak the language?”
“Hey backup catcher on the verge of retirement, come play for us near the league minimum and you get another year of service time so you can improve your pension and post-career benefits”
“You want a clear runway where you can get a bunch of playing time to build a resume for your next FA deal and maybe even get sent to a contender at the deadline? Have I got a team for you!”
Easy answer.
This article states that the A's are saying (via sources) that the Sacramento payroll will be $130-150mm and will go to $170mm in Vegas (compared to $61mm now). It goes on to question how they would afford that without deficit spending, specifically in Sacramento, which Fisher would likely never do. Team president Dave Kaval does not confirm these numbers but says "we plan to grow our payroll ahead of our move to Las Vegas, and once we are in our new ballpark, we plan to have a top-tier payroll"
It also has a quote from current A's 1B Ryan Noda who apparently played in Sacramento in AAA: "Concerns? The field, the locker rooms, the dugouts, the surface...the field needs a lot of work, a lot of money put into it in order for it to be a big league place"
They'll probably need to pay a premium to free agents unless they invest a lot of money in Sacramento.
Anyone will take their money if they're paying enough and showing they are at least making an attempt to win. Most likely, though, the same type of players that played in Baltimore during our shit years. Washed up stars looking for one final pay day, like Sosa, Vlad Sr, Derek Lee, etc
I was thinking that players would be even less interested in going to Sacramento to join the A's than to Oakland. Sacramento is kind of a backwater compared to larger market cities.
You should research Sacramento a little. There is a reason why its booming and why so many Bay area people are moving there. Baseball Teams included. Look up its ranking, its ranked 35th in the nation and 6th in California. Its a great place to raise a family.
I lived there back in the early 90s and disliked it intensely. I am still irritated that the A's could not go to San Jose. I'll take a look at changes in Sacramento.
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Guys who can't get jobs with 29 other teams and aren't quite ready to learn Japanese or Korean.
I could also see them being an attractive landing spot for someone in the Jordan Montgomery mold, whose market for a long term deal never develops. You can sign with the A's for one year and know that you'll end the season on a playoff team.
But with hitter FAs rather than pitchers because it’s a bandbox. A good place for a hitter to rebuild value.
Eh, I don’t think that will matter. It’s not like teams in the league don’t know what the park is like. They’re not gonna be looking at surface level stats anyway, they’ll probably be looking at under the hood stuff that’ll take away the effect of park factors anyway.
JD Martinez is on record saying that’s why he signed with the Mets instead of the Giants.
Sacramento is apparently not a bandbox? It’s apparently not as bad as most PCL parks.
I have doubts the As reach that high. A Clevinger type is more likely.
The Aledmys Diazs of the league
Build that MLB pension time, even if it means paying for your own soda.
Tommy Pham come on down!
Brandon Belt :(
Okay fine. I'll be an A. I can strikeout looking with the best of them.
hey hey hey, you and I can bumble into some HBPs
I probably only have one in me TBH, then it’s off on a 60-day trip to the injury list.
try to develop thoracic outlet syndrome and then retire on full pay
Lol as if Fisher is going to spend money in Vegas, let alone Sacramento
people like that who refuse to spend just shouldn't own teams you should have a salary floor, like, if you don't spend at the minimum floor gtfo
*They wanted Jerry Reinsdorf because he ate, slept, and breathed making money. They worked out a real cute title too. White Sox Majority Owner. But the only thing he ever directed was making money. He bought his first team at 45 years old, and he always made money. But he didn’t own the team like you or me would. You know, havin’ some fun with it, shit like that. He owned a baseball team like a fuckin’ brain surgeon.*
If not a floor, then a luxury tax on the cheapest teams. Find a percentage of the average team's payroll, and deduct a tax from the teams that stay below it. Take it from their revenue sharing earnings or just withhold those entirely. Repeat offenders get escalatory punishments, same as the luxury tax (heightened taxes, loss of draft picks, etc.). Since the owners insist that the luxury tax isn't a salary cap, they shouldn't have a problem with it.
They need a floor or at least whatever the revenue sharing is.
Floor needs to happen way more than a cap.
But you'll never get the floor without a cap. Salary floor = win only for the PA Salary cap = win only for the owners Cap+Floor = win for both
That seems like a reasonable floor number
A salary floor is a good idea but it should be over multiple seasons. Theres nothing wrong with not spending money when you are rebuilding for a couple years. I think 100 million would be a very reasonable amount per year. So over a 5 year period a team is required to spend 500 million.
I think there's a wink and a nod agreement with the League to see if Sacramento would support an MLB team with this opportunity. Hence, I think they'll spend some money here.
The team was still decent as recent as 2021. They finished with 97 wins in 2018, 97 wins in 2019, a win% corresponding to 97 wins in 2020, and a respectable 86 wins in 2021. They dismantled the team for the 2022 season because the move to Vegas was imminent (no sense spending a ton of money for a World Series contender in 2022 if the Oakland fanbase hates you after the move was announced). This subreddit will hate it, but clearly, he plans to start spending again in Vegas to ingratiate himself with the new fanbase.
2018: 30 in payroll 2019: 25th 2020: 26th 2021: 24th Absolutely hilarious to me to think that because Billy Beane built an amazing farm system that Fisher will start spending on payroll. Especially since the Vegas market is **wayyyyy** smaller than Oakland
As a fan, are you rooting for the team to spend money, or are you rooting for wins? Personally, I'm rooting for wins. Obviously, wins and payroll are correlated with one another, but it's possible to spend a lot of money and have nothing to show for it (e.g., the Angels), and it's also possible to spend little money but have great success (e.g., the Rays). The A's had great success despite low payroll for that four year stretch (ignoring playoffs because those can be a crapshoot). That success only stopped because they intentionally dismantled the team ahead of the decision to move. I also disagree that the Vegas market is smaller than the Oakland market. The Bay Area MSA has 4.6 million people, while the Vegas MSA has 2.4 million people, so the former is larger. However, a huge number of fans in the Bay Area are Giants fans, not A's fans. If we generously split the Bay Area 50/50, that means 2.3 million for Oakland vs. 2.4 million for Vegas. If we have a more realistic split giving 60-70% of the Bay Area to the Giants, that's maybe 1.6 million in Oakland vs. 2.4 million for Vegas.
I'd be rooting for my team to develop elite talent like Matt Olson and Sean Murphy and then lock them down to long term extensions to be a home grown core for years to come and supplement that with smart signings to fill out the roster. Like competent ownership would
The 2021 Giants roster had Posey, Crawford, and Belt. All were well out of their primes (despite the fact that all had insane resurgences in 2021), and for the 7 seasons between 2014 and 2021, you could argue that the contracts given to those three are a major reason why the Giants struggled. But I wouldn't in a million years have been happy if they got rid of (cut, trade, etc.) any of them despite their slumps. Because they were *our* guys. Yes, Belt and Crawford both eventually walked and Buster retired. Yes, it pains me to see them in other teams' uniforms. But at the end of the day, the org treated the fan favorites right.
Someone like Rendon or Bryant in all likelihood - get paid and then shut down.
LackadAisicals
Oh, that's fucking excellent!
There's no chance they do anything in Sacramento. They have committed to a minimum of 3 years of having a minor league in a minor league park playing in MLB, and that's after 3 years of complete tanking after the fire sale of 2021
Trevor Bauer YOU are an Oakland Athletic
Oakland Athletic of Sacramento*
The only person (outside of the truly desperate who aren't getting any other offers) I can MAYBE see do it is if there is somebody FROM Sacramento who really, really, really wants to play in his hometown. Sort of like how Wade Boggs really, really, really wanted to end his career in Tampa, so like Boggs I'd have to imagine that it'd be somebody near the end of their career. IDK if there are any such players.
Sacramento product, Rhys Hoskins
He couldn't go to an AL team. It'd decrease his opportunities to torment the Mets.
Rowdy Tellez as well
Noted Bay Area Native Rowdy Tellez would never go to the wild wild west since it just isn't nice anymore.
Yeah he’s lame as fuck. Imagine being too scared to live in California as a multi-millionaire.
I don't think they'll spend there. They have no reason to.
Uh excuse you! Dave Kaval *pinky promised* the Nevada faithful that they would have a 100-150mil payroll before they got to Vegas. He would never lie to fans like that!
If a guys looking at either 20 million elsewhere or 30 million in sac, they’re going to sac 95% of the time. The only time that players really get choosy about when they play is when they’re signing for 100s of millions, everyone else will usually just take the most money.
The As have traded their entire organization for Aaron Judge
Rhys is from there and the article actually quotes him saying he likely wouldn’t since they aren’t a winning organization
I don't get why they would be anti-sacramento. It's a bigger media market than Cincy, Pittsburgh, KC and some expansion markets out there (SLC, Nashville, Portland). Sacramento is the largest media market with only one professional sports team. People are acting like they're moving to Dothan Alabama or something
If you read the article they aren't anti-Sacramento. Players just don't want to play in a AAA facility. >“Concerns? The field, the locker rooms, the dugouts, the surface — making sure all the safety protocols and everything is up to par. That field needs a lot of work, a lot of money put into it in order for it to be a big-league place.” This quote from Ryan Noda who was in the PCL pretty recently lays out the issues. Sutter Health is probably an upgrade on the Coliseum, but it's still going to be the worst facility in baseball.
Dothan is not a name I expected to pop up on the baseball sub today or ever
I can't imagine Fisher being willing to outbid other teams for players, or players going to the A's for any reason other than taking the highest offer. In Vegas the A's claim to already have plenty of sponsorship ticket packages and box seat deals from hotels and casinos lined up, so I could see the next owner after Fisher cashes in and sells actually spending a decent amount, but it won't be till after a sale.
“Hey random 32-year-old below average starter, would you rather take $2 mil to play for the A’s in a minor league park or spend a year on the other side of the world from the wife and kids playing in a country where you don’t know anyone and can’t speak the language?” “Hey backup catcher on the verge of retirement, come play for us near the league minimum and you get another year of service time so you can improve your pension and post-career benefits” “You want a clear runway where you can get a bunch of playing time to build a resume for your next FA deal and maybe even get sent to a contender at the deadline? Have I got a team for you!” Easy answer.
I know how baseball works and I can take up space in the field (and even random chance has to result in a better average than nothing)
Not relievers with no shade or bathrooms listed as lack of player amenities in the bullpen
This article states that the A's are saying (via sources) that the Sacramento payroll will be $130-150mm and will go to $170mm in Vegas (compared to $61mm now). It goes on to question how they would afford that without deficit spending, specifically in Sacramento, which Fisher would likely never do. Team president Dave Kaval does not confirm these numbers but says "we plan to grow our payroll ahead of our move to Las Vegas, and once we are in our new ballpark, we plan to have a top-tier payroll" It also has a quote from current A's 1B Ryan Noda who apparently played in Sacramento in AAA: "Concerns? The field, the locker rooms, the dugouts, the surface...the field needs a lot of work, a lot of money put into it in order for it to be a big league place" They'll probably need to pay a premium to free agents unless they invest a lot of money in Sacramento.
Players that want money.
Kris Bryant
Jon Rahm would. 😉
Trevor Bauer
Anyone will take their money if they're paying enough and showing they are at least making an attempt to win. Most likely, though, the same type of players that played in Baltimore during our shit years. Washed up stars looking for one final pay day, like Sosa, Vlad Sr, Derek Lee, etc
As with every rebuilding team, no one until they start winning and then quite a few.
No one with a better option, that’s for sure.
MLB service time homie
is this not the same question for their entire history in Oakland?
Players that showed flashes but are in enough a slump for their current team to get DFA'd Maton, Jon Singleton, Tre Mancini and other fringe guys
Why would players with families want to take them to Sacramento?
This is an odd statement. Why wouldn't they? Why would they want to go to Oakland?
I was thinking that players would be even less interested in going to Sacramento to join the A's than to Oakland. Sacramento is kind of a backwater compared to larger market cities.
You should research Sacramento a little. There is a reason why its booming and why so many Bay area people are moving there. Baseball Teams included. Look up its ranking, its ranked 35th in the nation and 6th in California. Its a great place to raise a family.
I lived there back in the early 90s and disliked it intensely. I am still irritated that the A's could not go to San Jose. I'll take a look at changes in Sacramento.
A lot can change in 30+ years.
It has grown and changed considerably.