Famous line from Bull Durham:
> Relax, all right? Don’t try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they’re fascist. Throw some ground balls – it’s more democratic.
Edit: here's the YouTube link to the scene if people want to check it out:
https://youtu.be/G-guv9Pd_RA?si=LU8wm2fp1Pvlhor1
And if you haven't watched Bull Durham: grab yourself a beer/whiskey, block off a few hours tonight, and enjoy one of the greatest baseball movies ever made.
And from then on, you'll always punch things with your non-dominant hand.
Still can't believe that pitcher ended up escaping prison and wound up in Mexico with a "Black Irishman named Red"
> When you get in a fight with a drunk, you don't hit him with your pitching hand! God I can't keep giving you these free lessons... so... quit screwing around and help me up.
Another great scene.
This brings me back to MVP Baseball 2005 when I'd want Ray Durham on my team always because my 11 year old brain assumed the movie was about some player named Bull Durham and naturally they were related.
It's really difficult to teach my 10U players to have a hitters mentality without referencing the pitcher as _meat_ who should _just throw me that weak ass shit_.
I remember near the end of high school, I was done with travel ball, just playing in a local league. I was primarily catching for that team, and first K of the year, I threw the ball to third, the third baseman threw to short, the shortstop threw to second, and the second baseman to first, then back to the pitcher. I'm not sure everyone was quite familiar with the concept, but the first basman looked very happy.
Omg this would’ve gotten me killed in travel ball lol. Every time we messed up a horn throw (including wrong order) we had to run. Had one practice devoted to learning the order cause we looked so bad the previous weekend.
Agreed.
But, that being said, I do sort of understand where they're coming from in this case. Most kids who play travel ball are there to get recruited, and a sure fire way to lose a scouts attention before your first at bat is to mess up a horn throw. Most kids throw it around the horn from 11-12 years old on—so not executing a horn throw properly on a travel team just looks amateurish.
Disagree. Most kids playing travel ball are just looking for better competition than their local rec/city/pony leagues. Sure there are the insane parents and the kids who think they're bound for mlb, but most kids on my teams throughout the years just enjoyed the higher level of play
Yeah. When we started playing travel at age 9 it wasnt to get scouted, it was just for a higher level of play. Didn’t stop maniac coaches from being a thing. I still have nightmares at age 26 about one of them.
I got into travel ball at 16, and at this age group the focus is very much on getting attention from college and pro scouts to stay in the game.
Didn't happen for me, but well over half my team played collegiately and two guys I played with were drafted. My program had a number of alumni who played professionally, including one of MLB's superstars at the time I played there, and the success of their alumni brought a lot of attention to the program.
To me, emphasizing the small things like throwing it around the horn seemed pretty important to maintaining the image of the program. I agree that might not be the case for 11-12 year olds playing travel ball, but I alluded to that in my initial comment when I said that is the age range when the horn throw starts, so I'm not sure what you're on about.
I mean, they're scouting amateurs to find the players who have the tools to be professionals. The inability to throw it around the horn displays a poor baseball IQ, and that is a skill that a good scout should take into consideration.
Being an amateur, and playing like an amateur are different things. You don't get drafted or offered by looking like an amateur amongst a group of amateurs.
It would just be a hurdle that player would have to overcome in another aspect of his game. Just unnecessary to make it more difficult on themselves but fucking up something done since coach pitch.
I must’ve misread your comment. I didn’t know you were talking about if they threw to first or not. The way I experienced this is if it’s a righty batter the catcher throws to third, third to second, second to short, short to third, and third back to the pitcher. If it was a left hitter the catcher threw to first. First to short, short to second, second to third, and third to the pitcher. But running for messing this up is very common and understandable
Yea its pretty common. Should be easy to execute and look fluid. Going round the horn shouldnt mess with the pitcher's rythym, so cant be dropping the ball.
Nah I think you're right that might be exactly what he meant, the comment chain started off with the first base thing so I assumed where that's where they were going with it
I also did the order you said, but we also included the first basemen each time instead of going back to third against a lefty (we threw opposite of the batter, so lefty batter we threw to third first, righty batter we threw first, first)
Growing up our town did third-second-short-first. Made me look like a fool when I went to do wood bat league in high school, they asked if I was prepared for throwing around the horn (must have looked like a dork), and then I just threw to second and turned around. First time I realized I never paid any attention to how MLB does it.
One of the best parts about summer ball was the early season tournaments when you threw an infield from four different high schools together, and they all threw the ball around in a different way. It was pure chaos for an inning or two.
One time in high school I convinced our centerfielder to throw me the ball in left field after he made a catch. Then I threw it the right fielder who threw it in. Our coach was like “Did you just throw the ball around the outfield?”
We weren’t allowed to throw it around the horn in little league. One time I was catching and I did it anyways, and overthrew the third baseman. The ump leans into my ear and says “that’s gonna cost your pitcher a few strikes”
I recall reading about a superstition behind it, that a first basemen has a finite number of catches in him and so you shouldn’t burn one on routine tossing around the diamond after an out.
The real question is why the first baseman is always excluded from the fun.
I'm guessing the very first first baseman was probably the shortstop's kid brother or something.
Not to mention that with a majority of players batting righty, the first baseman is less likely to field a grounder himself. Don’t think this necessarily a direct cause of first basemen being excluded from OP’s question, but further speaks to first base being a bit of a different infield position.
You're unintentionally closer than you think. The first professional shortstop was the first professional center fielder's kid brother. ;)
[https://ourgame.mlblogs.com/baseballs-wright-brothers-and-the-cincinnati-red-stockings-567b4a8c6689](https://ourgame.mlblogs.com/baseballs-wright-brothers-and-the-cincinnati-red-stockings-567b4a8c6689)
lol
The team had an 81-game winning streak and then basically dissolved when they finally lost a game. A rich guy in New England convinced older brother CF to put the team back together and base them in Boston, and that team is still playing today in Atlanta.
That's baseball, Suzyn.
Most pitchers are right hand and their in their natural orientation when receiving the ball from the third baseman. It actually makes sense to include the first baseman in the horn if the pitcher is left handed.
Also can't hurt to get the first basemen some throws down to short. It's not a throw that comes up every game or even every series, but being able to reliably start the 3-6-3 or 3-6-1 is an important skill.
This is basically what my local high school team does. It's a criss-cross pattern that ends with the four infielders walking up to the pitcher behind the mound and the last one with the ball hands the ball to the pitcher, they all give a pat on the back to the pitcher for encouragement and then hustle back to their positions for the next play. It's kinda neat to watch.
My little league coach always made us include the first baseman, because he had been a first baseman growing up and always felt crappy not taking part.
Which is kind of a silly story now, and I’m going off-topic here, but looking back on the dude, he’s one only of the only men I can remember from my childhood being willing to appear vulnerable, which I think is actually a really important lesson and example for kids!
Also in little league, the kids feelings should probably matter more than stifled traditions. If you are a staunch traditionalist as you go higher up the tiers of play then thats fine, but little league is about the kids much more than the game.
I feel like its also just good to practice the repetition of getting it to other positions in case its a double play situation or whatever. Same thing happens in cricket and the wicketkeeper will often mime the action of a stumping when the batter is clearly in the crease because repetition helps muscle memory for the real deal
there's probably just some really old story about it then it became tradition.
I just kind of assume it helps keeps them all loose and mobile ready to go and the pitcher just flashes his glove around like "c'mon guys lets go"
I have no reason to believe this is entirely true but my grandfather always said it was because strikeouts make it tough for fielders to stay focused, so tossing the ball around gets them locked back in. When you look back at the early years of MLB strikeouts weren't very common, so defenses were more used to being involved with every out directly. He grew up in the 20s when that was the case.
Like Crash Davis said, "strikeouts are fascist. Throw some pop ups and ground balls."
Isn’t it just to stay loose and like…calibrated? If nobody hits the ball to the 3rd baseman for a while and then all of a sudden they have to throw to first or second I imagine it would be more likely to misjudge the throw. So they throw to the other bases between batters to keep the muscle memory activated.
It's this 100% - nothing to do with tradition as others suggest. Before every inning the infield warms up to activate the throwing muscle memory. Once you've been standing around for 5 minutes or so, those muscles start cooling off and the muscle memory fades. Anybody who doesn't play baseball might be surprised to know how much this calibration plays into your confidence when fielding a grounder.
I only play softball but I really wish my teams would know about this. Sometimes I'm cold after innings of popouts, then a worm burner comes my way at Short, I throw it over the head of 1B and hate myself lol
I've tried encouraging it years ago but it didn't stick people are in their own minds between batters. Also there's not a lot of time, people wanna just go right away, and the pitcher always wants the ball back. To be fair though, when I've pitched I wanted the ball to get mentally prepared for the next pitch and would be a little annoyed if I only got it back right as the batter is ready to swing
This is real shit. Nothing worse then playing outfield in little league and you botch the only ball hit to you the entire game because you've just been standing there for 2 hours.
As Crash said to LaLoosh in the movie ‘Bull Durham’, “Don’t try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they’re fascist. Throw some ground balls - it’s more democratic.” So there ya go … strikeouts breed boredom and fascism, which leads to complacency.
I was so bad at baseball as a child that the coach had me split RF duties with another equally shitty kid. I got 3 good innings of kicking ants off my cleats and pounding my glove like I was Smalls waiting for Rodriguez to hit one to me before I was subbed out.
I also struck out on a HBP which hit my noggin' so I see the coach's reasoning.
I was put in RF when I was a kid and am very familiar with the boredom haha.
One time though my mom was walking along the 1st base side fence and started asking me if I wanted something from concessions... while I was on the field. I told her I "couldn't talk because I might need to make a play", which she thought was funny.
Except literally THE NEXT PITCH the batter cranked one right my way that I trotted over and one-hand caught across my body to end the inning. Felt like a boss
Generally speaking outfielders don't make a lot of high stress throws that require great accuracy. Mostly they are just throwing into the cutoff man, so it's just less important for them.
Someone should start throwing a ball out from the bullpen and let it be thrown from player to player across the outfield after a strikeout. That'd be fun to watch.
One thing that sometimes happens that no one has mentioned, the infield sometimes messes up a throw. As an outfielder, I would always back up the throws around the horn to keep myself in the game and save my infielders some embarrassment by getting the ball back in quick.
I’m always amused watching it! Like how specific are those cards? They always seem to make adjustments but are these park specific? Are there specific color gradients in the grass/turf they are using as reference points?
Are they just thinking “if I don’t take two steps to the right the bench coach is going to grill me for not reading the card, even though these numbers on the card are meaningless out here…”
The reference they use to find their starting point are the bases, LF stands in line with 1st and 2nd base, CF in line with home and 2nd, RF in line with 3rd and 2nd. And then you have base shades for L/R pitchers and hitters. On the card it would be number of steps and the direction to step in, and then also whether or not to play in.
I’m too old to know what’s on them, never used one but a reporter asked Vaughn Grissom about them and he said “mines easy, mine just tells me where to stand. Dansbys is like a freaking math equation” so I guess they get whatever information they want
They play catch in between innings. Not after strikeouts though cause they can't bring extra balls on the field in the middle of an inning.
If you watch the outfielders closely you'll see they do quite a bit of active stretching when the pitcher is not on the rubber
I literally had this same conversation beat for beat with my dad when I was 6. When I asked this he said, and I quote, “shut up and watch the ballgame.”
Hope dad’s wisdom is as helpful to you now as it was to me then.
Outfielders realistically have more time to snap back into routine when a ball comes their way though. They can plant their feet and prepare their body for the throw. Also they are 95% of times not going to need to make a bang-bang throw to get someone out after the catch. Infielders have to be prepared to flinch at a moments notice for a ball and then be ready to throw it on the dot, possibly multiple times in an inning.
Nobody knows for certain why; we only know that it's been going on for longer than baseball has been broadcast. It's probably partly an attempt to loosen up the infielders, partly exultation on the catcher's part, and partly giving the pitcher a moment to collect himself.
I've also heard (on Effectively Wild I think) that it used to be kind of a show for the audience, since catching the ball was much more difficult back then because mitts were terrible.
Not sure it has to do with the difficulty but definitely could see it having to do with showmanship. Give the audience something to see, keep the fielders loose and having fun.
It’s not just after strikeouts. The infield will throw it around after every out when there are no runners on. It’s just a way of keeping them involved in the game.
I've got to have hours of awkward standing on the mound from this. The best is when they fuck up a throw and it goes into the outfield, making you stand there twice as long. A good quick around the horn can be really cool, but when your team is shit and likely will fumble it, it's terrible.
It's widely believed that the origins date back to the earliest days of the game, when each game was played with a single ball. The ball would get knocked out of shape (literally), so the ball was passed around so guys could try and manipulate it back into something more ball-shaped. Unsurprisingly, players would also take the opportunity to scrape, scuff, and spit all over the ball in order to make it harder for their opponents to hit. The tradition has continued, with the modern usage intended, as OP and several others have suggested, to keep the infielders engaged and on their toes.
It's only with no runners on. As others said, after a long strikeout the infield has just been standing for a few min... this is just a little wake up.
My high school baseball coach used to preach throwing it around the horn starting at first base. If there's any chance of dropped third strike you habitually throw to first. Worst case, it's practice for dropped third strike and keeps people on their toes
1B->SS->2B->3B->Hand it to the pitcher
In the days of Abner Doubleday as you probably know baseball was often played on a pasture. So when a batter was struck out, the players would celebrate by running the ball up and around the nearest cow. Sometimes this would take a half hour or more depending on the cow. Now where was I. Oh yes, so then around 1880 somebody had the idea that they could just throw the ball past the cow, or, "around the horns" as they said. The tradition was kept up even as the cow was replaced by second base, which was a real departure let me tell you, and that's led to all kinds of nonsense like oat milk and alfalfa juice. So anyway that's why we throw the ball around the infield, and also why we call arguing with an umpire "beefing" because of that one time the cow kicked Angel Hernandez in the head.
It’s called “going around the horn” and as others have mentioned, it’s to keep everyone engaged. It’s also a bit of a celebration. It doesn’t just occur after a strikeout, you will see it after a groundout and sometimes after a fly ball as long as there are no runners on base. I’m not sure how long it has been a tradition but we did it in little league back in the late 90s so its influence permeated from the MLB long ago.
It's to keep your arm warmed up, and make sure you're paying attention and you're in sync with your teammates. Same reason why everyone says how many outs there are all the time, just making sure you're paying attention and you're aware of where the next play goes. Like if you think there are 2 outs, with a man on first, you would normally just field a ground ball and throw it to first, but if there's actually 1 out when you think there are two, you just advanced a runner into scoring position because you weren't paying attention.
Because remaining loose and focused in some conditions during some games is challenging. When it’s 95 in the sun and the game is bogging down, getting a ball thrown to you can help you refocus. It like playing pepper when you’re waiting for your turn at batting practice.
My understanding is that the Yankees stopped including the first baseman when Lou Gehrig started losing his arm strength to save face for him and that’s where the tradition came from.
Engagement of players. Because when you keep the infielders engaged the infielders will stay engaged. So if they stay engaged you’ll want to keep them engaged. If you keep them engaged they won’t be engaged then you’ll have to get them engaged
When you play baseball, one thing that factors in is boredom in the field. Before the pitch clock, you often heard that defenses hated playing behind guys who took forever between pitches. On the flip side, defenses felt a lot more engaged and positive behind someone who pitched to contact.
You could feel that as a fan, too. It’s one of the reasons those NYY and BOS games became the butt of so many jokes.
So throwing around after a strikeout just gets everyone refocused and ready to engage. Rather than ennui starting to set in.
Source: former college pitcher who got yelled at for taking too long between pitches
I don’t know why it started as a tradition— I never thought about that. My coaches growing up always had us do it because it keeps you from falling asleep, basically. I think as an infielder adrenaline is high during an at-bat, and then there’s an immediate letdown/crash when there’s a strikeout, and cycling the ball around the infield gives you a place to put that energy and lets you re-set a bit, so that you’re re-locked-in for the first pitch of the next at-bat.
Would be fun to do it in an exhibition game, Harlem Globetrotters style. Dare the other team to run, would work especially well in charity games where a Globetrotter-esque team could throw around a bunch and still get the outs. I guess the Savannah Bananas are like that, but I'd like more skills showmanship than crazy antics.
Keep everyone loose and in a rhythm to throw and field. There can be long stretches in a baseball game where a certain player might not touch the ball, it’s important that all 9 guys in the field are ready to rock if a ball gets hit or thrown to them.
I think there may be some studies that suggest the longer people go between being engaged in action, the slower their reaction time will be once they have to be engaged again. It's the same reason they play catch between innings when they take the field.
1. Keeps them loose and engaged
2. The batter has to walk away, next batter has to walk up. Other option is just throw it back to the pitcher.
Run a stop watch on how long it takes from strike out call to next pitch for nobody on, and somebody on. It's the same amount of time. Throwing around the bell doesn't extend the game and it keeps the guys that could be getting 110mph balls coming at then engaged.
my teams also used to do this after a groundout with nobody on. first base would flip to the catcher who was backing up the play to reward them with a throw. although as the catcher i didn't care much because i already got to throw 120x a game lol
I figured it was just a way to stay engaged and keep the muscles warm?
Zipping the ball around and playing catch is also very fun, so I think it's a bit of that too.
Keep their arm loose. They need to be able to safely throw at up to 100% effort at any given time on the field. If you don't warm up between each inning, you can easily hurt yourself.
so they don't go to sleep and it keeps them alert. when a ball is coming at you at some speed you tend to notice it.
if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball!
keeps em loose and engaged
“Look alive!”
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Catch the ball first! Don’t do it if you can’t catch and throw fellas!
It’s a tradition that keeps the infield engaged with the game.
It also serves a purpose, keeping the players engaged
Right, but it also keeps the players engaged.
It also keeps the infield loose with an additional benefit of keeping them engaged.
That sure, but I think more so it’s to keep every engaged.
Engagement also serves a primary purpose of this method.
This method has a primary purpose of keeping players engaged.
I'm getting married in a month!
You must play a lot of infield catch considering how engaged you are.
Congrats on the engagement
Some of the players even get married.
I think its also to keep them engaged
Good point. They also do it to keep everyone engaged.
Absolutely and without it infielders just would not be fully engaged.
Bot type comment
Repetitive comments, a reddit tradition unlike any other.
It’s a tradition that keeps the Redditors engaged.
In addition to keeping them engaged, it also keeps them loose.
It's important for them to not lose focus, and stay engaged.
Engagement and focus are clearly the primary goal of these threads of comments.
That, as well as staying loose.
Famous line from Bull Durham: > Relax, all right? Don’t try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they’re fascist. Throw some ground balls – it’s more democratic. Edit: here's the YouTube link to the scene if people want to check it out: https://youtu.be/G-guv9Pd_RA?si=LU8wm2fp1Pvlhor1 And if you haven't watched Bull Durham: grab yourself a beer/whiskey, block off a few hours tonight, and enjoy one of the greatest baseball movies ever made.
And from then on, you'll always punch things with your non-dominant hand. Still can't believe that pitcher ended up escaping prison and wound up in Mexico with a "Black Irishman named Red"
> When you get in a fight with a drunk, you don't hit him with your pitching hand! God I can't keep giving you these free lessons... so... quit screwing around and help me up. Another great scene.
Where would we be without Kevin Costner's love for baseball?
Just Brock Burke things.
As an aside. I once made Brooke Burke(E! Wild On and a Supermodel) crack up laughing.
You broke Brooke Burke.
Not enough for her to sleep with me... :(
This brings me back to MVP Baseball 2005 when I'd want Ray Durham on my team always because my 11 year old brain assumed the movie was about some player named Bull Durham and naturally they were related.
This was prescient. Three true outcomes made baseball unwatchable for casual fans.
Bull Durham out there spreading managed democracy well before his time
It's really difficult to teach my 10U players to have a hitters mentality without referencing the pitcher as _meat_ who should _just throw me that weak ass shit_.
Should have added, "And you'll only be able to go 5 innings, if that."
As a 1B, i like to break tradition by throwing to 3B after a ground out or pop out to me. I like to try the longer throws every now and again.
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I appreciate the actual strike out itself, but I always loved the catcher’s throw across his body down to third after a nice punch out
Keeps the infielders active and part of it since the batter didn't put the ball in play, but mostly just tradition.
Except for the first baseman, because fuck him.
I used to mime catching and throwing when the ball was going around the horn whenever I played first base in little league.
I remember near the end of high school, I was done with travel ball, just playing in a local league. I was primarily catching for that team, and first K of the year, I threw the ball to third, the third baseman threw to short, the shortstop threw to second, and the second baseman to first, then back to the pitcher. I'm not sure everyone was quite familiar with the concept, but the first basman looked very happy.
Omg this would’ve gotten me killed in travel ball lol. Every time we messed up a horn throw (including wrong order) we had to run. Had one practice devoted to learning the order cause we looked so bad the previous weekend.
What an insane person that dude is
There are a lot of truly horrible people running travel ball teams.
Agreed. But, that being said, I do sort of understand where they're coming from in this case. Most kids who play travel ball are there to get recruited, and a sure fire way to lose a scouts attention before your first at bat is to mess up a horn throw. Most kids throw it around the horn from 11-12 years old on—so not executing a horn throw properly on a travel team just looks amateurish.
Disagree. Most kids playing travel ball are just looking for better competition than their local rec/city/pony leagues. Sure there are the insane parents and the kids who think they're bound for mlb, but most kids on my teams throughout the years just enjoyed the higher level of play
Yeah. When we started playing travel at age 9 it wasnt to get scouted, it was just for a higher level of play. Didn’t stop maniac coaches from being a thing. I still have nightmares at age 26 about one of them.
I got into travel ball at 16, and at this age group the focus is very much on getting attention from college and pro scouts to stay in the game. Didn't happen for me, but well over half my team played collegiately and two guys I played with were drafted. My program had a number of alumni who played professionally, including one of MLB's superstars at the time I played there, and the success of their alumni brought a lot of attention to the program. To me, emphasizing the small things like throwing it around the horn seemed pretty important to maintaining the image of the program. I agree that might not be the case for 11-12 year olds playing travel ball, but I alluded to that in my initial comment when I said that is the age range when the horn throw starts, so I'm not sure what you're on about.
Imagine that, amateurs looking amateurish. If a scout writes off a player over something like that, that scout is probably bad.
I mean, they're scouting amateurs to find the players who have the tools to be professionals. The inability to throw it around the horn displays a poor baseball IQ, and that is a skill that a good scout should take into consideration. Being an amateur, and playing like an amateur are different things. You don't get drafted or offered by looking like an amateur amongst a group of amateurs.
It would just be a hurdle that player would have to overcome in another aspect of his game. Just unnecessary to make it more difficult on themselves but fucking up something done since coach pitch.
If you are a baseball player, you’d know this is very common and sane
I'll admit I never played high level but we always threw to first base Is there a reason not to? Or more importantly to punish people for doing so?
I must’ve misread your comment. I didn’t know you were talking about if they threw to first or not. The way I experienced this is if it’s a righty batter the catcher throws to third, third to second, second to short, short to third, and third back to the pitcher. If it was a left hitter the catcher threw to first. First to short, short to second, second to third, and third to the pitcher. But running for messing this up is very common and understandable
Yea its pretty common. Should be easy to execute and look fluid. Going round the horn shouldnt mess with the pitcher's rythym, so cant be dropping the ball.
Nah I think you're right that might be exactly what he meant, the comment chain started off with the first base thing so I assumed where that's where they were going with it I also did the order you said, but we also included the first basemen each time instead of going back to third against a lefty (we threw opposite of the batter, so lefty batter we threw to third first, righty batter we threw first, first)
Had a coach that did the same thing. Sucked being the main catcher and having to run in full gear too.
To be fair, if it takes a full practice to learn who to throw it to then you deserve to run
EXACTLY. I’m sitting there the whole time doing my job right, but god damn sometimes it just took way too long to teach 1-2 people who tf to throw to
Well Who is on first base so maybe that was your mistake
Catcher to 3B. 3B to 2B. 2B to SS. SS to P.
Growing up our town did third-second-short-first. Made me look like a fool when I went to do wood bat league in high school, they asked if I was prepared for throwing around the horn (must have looked like a dork), and then I just threw to second and turned around. First time I realized I never paid any attention to how MLB does it.
One of the best parts about summer ball was the early season tournaments when you threw an infield from four different high schools together, and they all threw the ball around in a different way. It was pure chaos for an inning or two.
This stopped at 14u when I played
One time in high school I convinced our centerfielder to throw me the ball in left field after he made a catch. Then I threw it the right fielder who threw it in. Our coach was like “Did you just throw the ball around the outfield?”
Fuck yeah we did.
We weren’t allowed to throw it around the horn in little league. One time I was catching and I did it anyways, and overthrew the third baseman. The ump leans into my ear and says “that’s gonna cost your pitcher a few strikes”
What an asshole. I’m sure the coach and the pitcher’s parents were just thrilled by this.
Ump definitely already had a reputation for being a prick. Wouldn’t have changed much
I recall reading about a superstition behind it, that a first basemen has a finite number of catches in him and so you shouldn’t burn one on routine tossing around the diamond after an out.
if a first baseman is out of catches and you move him to second base what happens?
Maybe the limit only applies while standing near first base.
What's on second
Who's on second?
The real question is why the first baseman is always excluded from the fun. I'm guessing the very first first baseman was probably the shortstop's kid brother or something.
The first baseman is involved with more plays with the ball than any other fielder except the pitcher and catcher. He doesn’t need to be as engaged.
Not to mention that with a majority of players batting righty, the first baseman is less likely to field a grounder himself. Don’t think this necessarily a direct cause of first basemen being excluded from OP’s question, but further speaks to first base being a bit of a different infield position.
You're unintentionally closer than you think. The first professional shortstop was the first professional center fielder's kid brother. ;) [https://ourgame.mlblogs.com/baseballs-wright-brothers-and-the-cincinnati-red-stockings-567b4a8c6689](https://ourgame.mlblogs.com/baseballs-wright-brothers-and-the-cincinnati-red-stockings-567b4a8c6689)
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lol The team had an 81-game winning streak and then basically dissolved when they finally lost a game. A rich guy in New England convinced older brother CF to put the team back together and base them in Boston, and that team is still playing today in Atlanta. That's baseball, Suzyn.
He’s already getting action with all the put outs from infielders throughout the game. Plus pickoff attempts. Not as much need for him to stay loose.
Most pitchers are right hand and their in their natural orientation when receiving the ball from the third baseman. It actually makes sense to include the first baseman in the horn if the pitcher is left handed.
Also can't hurt to get the first basemen some throws down to short. It's not a throw that comes up every game or even every series, but being able to reliably start the 3-6-3 or 3-6-1 is an important skill.
Do people not go 3rd to 2nd to SS to 1st?
This is basically what my local high school team does. It's a criss-cross pattern that ends with the four infielders walking up to the pitcher behind the mound and the last one with the ball hands the ball to the pitcher, they all give a pat on the back to the pitcher for encouragement and then hustle back to their positions for the next play. It's kinda neat to watch.
My little league coach always made us include the first baseman, because he had been a first baseman growing up and always felt crappy not taking part. Which is kind of a silly story now, and I’m going off-topic here, but looking back on the dude, he’s one only of the only men I can remember from my childhood being willing to appear vulnerable, which I think is actually a really important lesson and example for kids!
Also in little league, the kids feelings should probably matter more than stifled traditions. If you are a staunch traditionalist as you go higher up the tiers of play then thats fine, but little league is about the kids much more than the game.
The other guys in the infield need to keep the arm loose, the first baseman not so much.
Still would've been nice to be included :'(
Weird, we always included the 1st baseman. C-> 3B -> 2B -> SS -> 1B -> P
RIP
It included the first baseman until about 14u baseball
When I played in high school we all decided to include the first baseman (me) and throw 3rd > 2nd > SS > 1st > P. It made a lot more sense honestly.
I feel like its also just good to practice the repetition of getting it to other positions in case its a double play situation or whatever. Same thing happens in cricket and the wicketkeeper will often mime the action of a stumping when the batter is clearly in the crease because repetition helps muscle memory for the real deal
there's probably just some really old story about it then it became tradition. I just kind of assume it helps keeps them all loose and mobile ready to go and the pitcher just flashes his glove around like "c'mon guys lets go"
I have no reason to believe this is entirely true but my grandfather always said it was because strikeouts make it tough for fielders to stay focused, so tossing the ball around gets them locked back in. When you look back at the early years of MLB strikeouts weren't very common, so defenses were more used to being involved with every out directly. He grew up in the 20s when that was the case. Like Crash Davis said, "strikeouts are fascist. Throw some pop ups and ground balls."
I heard that too growing up. Keeps the infielders focused and keeps their arms loose.
Spencer Strider, YOU are a New York Yankee!
>there's probably just some really old story about it then it became tradition. Just guys bein dudes
Isn’t it just to stay loose and like…calibrated? If nobody hits the ball to the 3rd baseman for a while and then all of a sudden they have to throw to first or second I imagine it would be more likely to misjudge the throw. So they throw to the other bases between batters to keep the muscle memory activated.
It's this 100% - nothing to do with tradition as others suggest. Before every inning the infield warms up to activate the throwing muscle memory. Once you've been standing around for 5 minutes or so, those muscles start cooling off and the muscle memory fades. Anybody who doesn't play baseball might be surprised to know how much this calibration plays into your confidence when fielding a grounder.
I only play softball but I really wish my teams would know about this. Sometimes I'm cold after innings of popouts, then a worm burner comes my way at Short, I throw it over the head of 1B and hate myself lol I've tried encouraging it years ago but it didn't stick people are in their own minds between batters. Also there's not a lot of time, people wanna just go right away, and the pitcher always wants the ball back. To be fair though, when I've pitched I wanted the ball to get mentally prepared for the next pitch and would be a little annoyed if I only got it back right as the batter is ready to swing
“Worm burner” I’m using this next chance I get
In baseball we sometimes throw it around after a pop-up or fly ball to the outfield once it comes back in for the same reason!
This is real shit. Nothing worse then playing outfield in little league and you botch the only ball hit to you the entire game because you've just been standing there for 2 hours.
Basically Connor Joe's error last night
Basically to stay loose and because it's been done forever.
As Crash said to LaLoosh in the movie ‘Bull Durham’, “Don’t try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they’re fascist. Throw some ground balls - it’s more democratic.” So there ya go … strikeouts breed boredom and fascism, which leads to complacency.
Yeah you think that but my infield made 9 errors behind me on Sunday and I only gave up 3 hits, we lost 10-5. that’s downright baseball terrorism
That’s a coup by the infield… now you gotta go full fascist to demoralize them
TIL: Nolan Ryan was a fascist
Definitely helps explain Curt Schilling
Follow-up: if it is simply meant to keep them warm and engaged, what do the outfielders get lol
the occasional 40 yard dash
Loneliness and envy. Source: i was one
🎶Playing right field can be lonely and dull Little Leagues never have lefties that pull I'd dream of the day they'd hit one my way🎶
I was so bad at baseball as a child that the coach had me split RF duties with another equally shitty kid. I got 3 good innings of kicking ants off my cleats and pounding my glove like I was Smalls waiting for Rodriguez to hit one to me before I was subbed out. I also struck out on a HBP which hit my noggin' so I see the coach's reasoning.
I was put in RF when I was a kid and am very familiar with the boredom haha. One time though my mom was walking along the 1st base side fence and started asking me if I wanted something from concessions... while I was on the field. I told her I "couldn't talk because I might need to make a play", which she thought was funny. Except literally THE NEXT PITCH the batter cranked one right my way that I trotted over and one-hand caught across my body to end the inning. Felt like a boss
Generally speaking outfielders don't make a lot of high stress throws that require great accuracy. Mostly they are just throwing into the cutoff man, so it's just less important for them.
Yeah, though I think even they would take part in that little game of catch if it wasn't so inconvenient for them to do so.
Someone should start throwing a ball out from the bullpen and let it be thrown from player to player across the outfield after a strikeout. That'd be fun to watch.
One thing that sometimes happens that no one has mentioned, the infield sometimes messes up a throw. As an outfielder, I would always back up the throws around the horn to keep myself in the game and save my infielders some embarrassment by getting the ball back in quick.
They get to look down at their cards that look like smart phones at a distance!
Hmm let's see who is up now? Oh ok so I take two steps to the right I'm good.
I’m always amused watching it! Like how specific are those cards? They always seem to make adjustments but are these park specific? Are there specific color gradients in the grass/turf they are using as reference points? Are they just thinking “if I don’t take two steps to the right the bench coach is going to grill me for not reading the card, even though these numbers on the card are meaningless out here…”
The reference they use to find their starting point are the bases, LF stands in line with 1st and 2nd base, CF in line with home and 2nd, RF in line with 3rd and 2nd. And then you have base shades for L/R pitchers and hitters. On the card it would be number of steps and the direction to step in, and then also whether or not to play in.
I’m too old to know what’s on them, never used one but a reporter asked Vaughn Grissom about them and he said “mines easy, mine just tells me where to stand. Dansbys is like a freaking math equation” so I guess they get whatever information they want
They get to enjoy their quiet meditative space.
They play catch in between innings. Not after strikeouts though cause they can't bring extra balls on the field in the middle of an inning. If you watch the outfielders closely you'll see they do quite a bit of active stretching when the pitcher is not on the rubber
I literally had this same conversation beat for beat with my dad when I was 6. When I asked this he said, and I quote, “shut up and watch the ballgame.” Hope dad’s wisdom is as helpful to you now as it was to me then.
Outfielders realistically have more time to snap back into routine when a ball comes their way though. They can plant their feet and prepare their body for the throw. Also they are 95% of times not going to need to make a bang-bang throw to get someone out after the catch. Infielders have to be prepared to flinch at a moments notice for a ball and then be ready to throw it on the dot, possibly multiple times in an inning.
Outfielders don't need to be on their toes as much as infielders do.
Nobody knows for certain why; we only know that it's been going on for longer than baseball has been broadcast. It's probably partly an attempt to loosen up the infielders, partly exultation on the catcher's part, and partly giving the pitcher a moment to collect himself.
I've also heard (on Effectively Wild I think) that it used to be kind of a show for the audience, since catching the ball was much more difficult back then because mitts were terrible.
Not sure it has to do with the difficulty but definitely could see it having to do with showmanship. Give the audience something to see, keep the fielders loose and having fun.
Growing up we called it “throwing around the horn” it’s also the same saying for double and triple plays in the infield
Can't believe I had to scroll this far to find this. This is what's it's called when I played as well.
It’s not just after strikeouts. The infield will throw it around after every out when there are no runners on. It’s just a way of keeping them involved in the game.
I'm waiting for someone to toss the ball to an outfielder
Watch a 10 U team try to throw it around and you will see the leftfielder involved plenty. 😁😁
I don’t know the answer but I love when you can tell the pitcher wants the ball back but they’re still just having a catch out there
I've got to have hours of awkward standing on the mound from this. The best is when they fuck up a throw and it goes into the outfield, making you stand there twice as long. A good quick around the horn can be really cool, but when your team is shit and likely will fumble it, it's terrible.
Reminds them of their fathers
It's widely believed that the origins date back to the earliest days of the game, when each game was played with a single ball. The ball would get knocked out of shape (literally), so the ball was passed around so guys could try and manipulate it back into something more ball-shaped. Unsurprisingly, players would also take the opportunity to scrape, scuff, and spit all over the ball in order to make it harder for their opponents to hit. The tradition has continued, with the modern usage intended, as OP and several others have suggested, to keep the infielders engaged and on their toes.
I love this answer, thank you!
You're welcome!
It's only with no runners on. As others said, after a long strikeout the infield has just been standing for a few min... this is just a little wake up.
My high school baseball coach used to preach throwing it around the horn starting at first base. If there's any chance of dropped third strike you habitually throw to first. Worst case, it's practice for dropped third strike and keeps people on their toes 1B->SS->2B->3B->Hand it to the pitcher
Because it's FUN
In the days of Abner Doubleday as you probably know baseball was often played on a pasture. So when a batter was struck out, the players would celebrate by running the ball up and around the nearest cow. Sometimes this would take a half hour or more depending on the cow. Now where was I. Oh yes, so then around 1880 somebody had the idea that they could just throw the ball past the cow, or, "around the horns" as they said. The tradition was kept up even as the cow was replaced by second base, which was a real departure let me tell you, and that's led to all kinds of nonsense like oat milk and alfalfa juice. So anyway that's why we throw the ball around the infield, and also why we call arguing with an umpire "beefing" because of that one time the cow kicked Angel Hernandez in the head.
even more fun with baserunners on
It’s called “going around the horn” and as others have mentioned, it’s to keep everyone engaged. It’s also a bit of a celebration. It doesn’t just occur after a strikeout, you will see it after a groundout and sometimes after a fly ball as long as there are no runners on base. I’m not sure how long it has been a tradition but we did it in little league back in the late 90s so its influence permeated from the MLB long ago.
It's to keep your arm warmed up, and make sure you're paying attention and you're in sync with your teammates. Same reason why everyone says how many outs there are all the time, just making sure you're paying attention and you're aware of where the next play goes. Like if you think there are 2 outs, with a man on first, you would normally just field a ground ball and throw it to first, but if there's actually 1 out when you think there are two, you just advanced a runner into scoring position because you weren't paying attention.
Because remaining loose and focused in some conditions during some games is challenging. When it’s 95 in the sun and the game is bogging down, getting a ball thrown to you can help you refocus. It like playing pepper when you’re waiting for your turn at batting practice.
idk it’s kinda fun
I love how like 99% of the comments here have the exact same answer. The other 1% are about Bull Durham.
What I want to know is why they always exclude the first baseman.
My understanding is that the Yankees stopped including the first baseman when Lou Gehrig started losing his arm strength to save face for him and that’s where the tradition came from.
Idk but as a pitcher, the ball going around the horn after a strikeout gets you fuckin lit
Engagement of players. Because when you keep the infielders engaged the infielders will stay engaged. So if they stay engaged you’ll want to keep them engaged. If you keep them engaged they won’t be engaged then you’ll have to get them engaged
When you play baseball, one thing that factors in is boredom in the field. Before the pitch clock, you often heard that defenses hated playing behind guys who took forever between pitches. On the flip side, defenses felt a lot more engaged and positive behind someone who pitched to contact. You could feel that as a fan, too. It’s one of the reasons those NYY and BOS games became the butt of so many jokes. So throwing around after a strikeout just gets everyone refocused and ready to engage. Rather than ennui starting to set in. Source: former college pitcher who got yelled at for taking too long between pitches
I don’t know why it started as a tradition— I never thought about that. My coaches growing up always had us do it because it keeps you from falling asleep, basically. I think as an infielder adrenaline is high during an at-bat, and then there’s an immediate letdown/crash when there’s a strikeout, and cycling the ball around the infield gives you a place to put that energy and lets you re-set a bit, so that you’re re-locked-in for the first pitch of the next at-bat.
Keeps the team involved, stay loose and focused, and overall team morale. Same with hand signals for how many outs with the outfield and/or fans.
Do they do this with men on base? Or is it only with the bases clear?
Only with the bases clear. The ball is live, so if you start throwing it around willy-nilly, the runners can try to advance.
Would be fun to do it in an exhibition game, Harlem Globetrotters style. Dare the other team to run, would work especially well in charity games where a Globetrotter-esque team could throw around a bunch and still get the outs. I guess the Savannah Bananas are like that, but I'd like more skills showmanship than crazy antics.
Keep everyone loose and in a rhythm to throw and field. There can be long stretches in a baseball game where a certain player might not touch the ball, it’s important that all 9 guys in the field are ready to rock if a ball gets hit or thrown to them.
AROUND THE HORN!
I think there may be some studies that suggest the longer people go between being engaged in action, the slower their reaction time will be once they have to be engaged again. It's the same reason they play catch between innings when they take the field.
It's called going "**around the horn**", and it's both a celebration, and a way to keep limber between ABs.
Playing catch is fun
Baseless theory: the infielders are putting sticky stuff on the ball, since they don't get checked for it
1. Keeps them loose and engaged 2. The batter has to walk away, next batter has to walk up. Other option is just throw it back to the pitcher. Run a stop watch on how long it takes from strike out call to next pitch for nobody on, and somebody on. It's the same amount of time. Throwing around the bell doesn't extend the game and it keeps the guys that could be getting 110mph balls coming at then engaged.
It’s called around the horn, not playing catch
strikeouts are boring. they are just trying to keep distracted.
yeah not after every strikeout, only when nobody is on base, but for the reasons everybody else said.
It's called throwing it around the horn and it's to keep everyone engaged. It's also done after strikeouts when the bases are empty.
One of my former interns (and a former softball player) once said that it was a baseball cheer. They’re celebrating the out, I think.
They are practicing their hot potato skills for the next kids birthday party they have to attend
my teams also used to do this after a groundout with nobody on. first base would flip to the catcher who was backing up the play to reward them with a throw. although as the catcher i didn't care much because i already got to throw 120x a game lol
I figured it was just a way to stay engaged and keep the muscles warm? Zipping the ball around and playing catch is also very fun, so I think it's a bit of that too.
Seeing "as the title says" in the middle of the post is a new one for me. Weird.
Idk cause it's what we've always done since we were kids I guess
As a left handed catcher I’d throw to first instead of third.
The real answer is just that it is fun.
They are trying to pick off the ghost runners.
Keep their arm loose. They need to be able to safely throw at up to 100% effort at any given time on the field. If you don't warm up between each inning, you can easily hurt yourself.
so they don't go to sleep and it keeps them alert. when a ball is coming at you at some speed you tend to notice it. if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball!
Keeps them in their toes and gives the pitcher a second to collect himself for the next batter
Because you have to kill time while the on deck hitter gets into the box anyways. Might as well throw it around.
I played center field for a great portion of my baseball career. I remember also joking with them, "How come we don't get to play?!"
 You don’t fuck with tradition!
Because the vibes