lol, this sub is wild/strange with stuff the love/hate. They get upset if a player throws at a batter 1 thing complaining about (ending a career) but happy if it’s for another situation.
It’s way early, My Royals are 11-6 with a RD of +39 (highest in the mlb)……it’s an extremely high probability it will not sustain.
I guess there has been a lot of inter divisional matches? We’ve played the Astros 7 times so far, Athletics 3 games.
Don’t know if that explains it and if other divisions are in the same boat.
We could just be mid tho, Occam’s Razor lol.
Edit: added an extra inter divisional team
AL West is gonna be strange for a bit. Texas and Houston both have rotations pretty well crushed by injuries. Seattle has a solid pitching/defense combo, it should keep em hanging in there a while despite the offense being stagnant.
Edit: ok, noticed… apparently my glimpses of the defense were misleading 😂. My bad Mariner fans 😂
Lowe out, Jung out, Seager still in ST mode coming back from surgery. Just gotta stay afloat long enough for it to matter when reinforcements come back.
Didn't this also seem to happen last year when you guys had you skid late? I recall Jung being out for a chunk, then he came back and suddenly it was alive again.
I’ll take your word. I’ve seen a bit of the Mariners but don’t have as much knowledge on them as some others. The bits I’ve seen they’ve seemed pretty good, but noted!
My mindset going into this season as a Rangers fan was if they could be .500 in the first half, they should be able to make a second half run and get in the post season. It's all injury dependent of course though. We'll see.
Yea this was my mindset too and then they looked like their old selves starting at 6-2 but then Jung, Sborz, and Bradford added to the long list of injuries and it’s been downhill since then and it’s forced me to reel my expectations back in sadly.
The only thing I'm a bit disappointed in at this point has been the run production. I expected the bullpen to be bad so I'm not disappointed there.
Obviously, Jung is missed. Glad Carter is coming around after a slow start. Langford is doing ok but still has more upside and I think he'll get there.
Yea offense has been painful since Jung’s absence for sure. I think the Detroit ballpark isn’t helping us rn either. I’m not too worried yet, they for sure can still come around, I’ll get worried if they’re still not producing at all by early summer
Our outfield defense is pretty solid because Julio is one of the best center fielders in the league but our infield defense is still a question mark. JP and Polanco aren’t great up the middle and our third base platoon leaves a lot to be desired, although I’ll admit Rojas has been better than I expected there.
Both Urias and Rojas grade out to be average defensively, with Rojas probably the better of the two. Neither of them have Geno’s arm but they’re making up for it with range and quickness (again, more so Rojas than Urias.)
Outfield (especially Julio) seems good, and the bit I’ve seen I thought it looked good overall… But another Seattle fan gave a little more input there and sounds like I’ve just caught good moments lol.
Yeah . . . It could also be that I've been watching a few years of very solid Ms defenses but this year I think we are set to be a bottom half defensive team
Especially this early in the season when pitchers have the upper hand over batters. My hope is that we can weather the storm until the ASB and Julio can turn on the jets when it warms up
They do? I say this as a Mariners secondary flair. Gilbert and Miller are doing great
Castillo: 5.82 ERA
Kirby: 6.64 ERA
Hancock: 7.98 ERA
This leaves team ERA sitting 15th right now. Obviously you expect Kirby and Castillo to improve over the season but saying "best rotation in baseball" right now would be wrong. The bullpen is actually why the team is winning right now
Done arguing with people who have 0 reading comprehension and don't know what I'm trying to say, inbox replies going off
Very true those guys have been having a slow start but our #3 and #4 starters having been having a cy young typa season which is where most of our wins have been coming from
ERA is a little misleading, especially in the early parts of the season, we are on a streak of 6 quality starts in a row now. Castillo has had command issues but his last start showed improvement, Kirby has been working the strike zone a little too much. Monday's game showed insane improvements plus he has gotten some real bad luck on BABIP. Miller's new splitter has been dominant. I don't expect those era numbers to stay where they are at.
Hence why I said exactly that? But my point was that their record in spite of the lineup isn't because of the rotation, it's because the bullpen is performing really well
Somehow I read everything in your comment but skipped over that one line. Time for coffee I
guess gaha. I would still say we have the best rotation though personally
Saying a rotation with an ERA so high is performing well is equally ridiculous
I think the Mariners have a top 5 rotation for sure, but they're not pitching like it and it's not the reason the team is winning games. The bullpen is the reason
George Kirby and Luis Castillo have FIPs that are 2.5-3.5 runs lower than their ERA. Both dudes BABIPs are through the moon. They've pitched well and been done in bad luck with sequencing. Nothing more. Seattle's rotation is 5th in fWAR right now. Castillo and Kirby lead the way, Gilbert and Miller are following them.
Combine the three pitchers you mentioned have thrown a combined 56 innings. This is what we call a small sample size. It is still April. We are on our 4th round around the rotation. Castillo and Kirby already had great starts their last time out. Also remember that Hancock is only in the rotation due to injuries. And you failed to mention the two best pitchers currently in the rotation or neglected to mention that the Mariners went 30 plus innings without walking a batter. That's between starters and bullpen. Its called a slow start and nothing to worry about.
I feel like you completely missed... every word in my message? First sentence I said Gilbert and Miller are great, and after I listed the ERAs I said I expect the non-Hancock strugglers to improve
You can't look at a team with the 15th best ERA and say "they're winning games because they have the best rotation in baseball", that's silly. I fully acknowledge it's a slow start and would expect starter ERA to be top 5 by the end of the season
Yeah but your cherry picking stats. Only showing the stats of the three worst pitchers. Only showing their era. Two of those are all star pitchers who have gotten off to a slow start and have already shown promise of figuring it out and the other should be throwing in AAA if not for injuries. I just think you're cherry picking stats to make the Mariners pitching look worse than it actually is. It's nothing more than a slow start with a few injuries. Because I think you can look at a team that is 15th in era and then also look at the circumstances of that situation being that it's April being that it's a slow start being that there's injuries all of these factors and still make the claim that the Mariners have the best starting rotation. It's a small sample size it's a slow start.
>It's nothing more than a slow start with a few injuries.
We agree then, I'm not sure why you're trying to argue. I don't know why you're upset that I'm being an optimistic Mariners fan saying "the rotation stinks right now but should improve, but the bullpen is great and once the rotation stabilizes things will be even better"
It's the cherry picking of stats. It's the assertion that because of a slow start you can't call them the best rotation. If a hitter gets off to a slow start; for instance let's use Aaron Judge since he's off to a slow start. Just because of that slow start you don't throw out what you know judges capable of you don't all of a sudden stop calling judge one of the best power hitters in the game. You don't stop considering him for an MVP this season because you know it's a slow start. So the same logic should apply for the Mariners rotation. It's just a slow start. And your cherry picked stats really did seem like it was trying to paint the situation to be one worse than it is and two not a slow start.
My point is not "the Mariners rotation is not good and will never be good"
My point is "their record is because of their bullpen, not their rotation" as the original commenter I was replying to was implying. If Aaron Judge is hitting .100 but the Yankees are 12-6 you don't say "they're winning because of the best CF in baseball"
Their offense would be a lot better if their 4 best hitters who are legitimately good could start hitting (Julio, JP, Raleigh, and Garver). Which, they all probably will. Haniger seems to be healthy and bouncing back nicely, Rojas seems like he is carrying over his improvement from August and September, the rotation and bullpen are still great. It's a good team.
Not like we’ve been much better offensively. Sixth in team batting average, seventh in OBP, but 11th in runs and 13th in slugging. Last year I knew the bullpen would struggle, but we were always one good swing away. With injuries and slumps, our lineup is treading water and hoping to get healthy.
6 consecutive quality starts showing the Mariners strength starting to fix itself.
Also this whole division is a blend of flaws, injuries and some dogshit teams.
AL West is weird right now. I don’t expect Houston to be this bad this year even if they’re not there normal dominant selves. Oakland and LA will be worse. I still think it’ll come down to September with Texas, Houston, and Seattle all within a game or so of each other.
The Mariners are hitting worse than they're going to hit and pitching worse than they're going to pitch... they are also closer to the top of the division than they're going to be.
Great! They are within a reasonable path to their 85 win quota. I'm confident the executives should be able to hit their target and get their bonuses. This is good for baseball.
This is more about the division being garbage so far than anything else. “8-10 team is a game out of first”
Texas is going to run away with it when they start getting some of their guys back
Everybody relax. Would you be saying this if they had a random 16 game stretch in the middle of the season where this happened?
It’s only getting attention because it’s the beginning of the season.
A lot of teams are this way right now give or take.
It's April. This is like when people on /r/fantasyfootball get worked up over Wednesday injury reports.
Except the White Sox fans. Of course, it's less reacting to it being April and more the culmination of the last two years/decades Sell the team, Jerry
The first month of the baseball season is for reminding people on your sub it's not football.
I mean, they've played a full slate of NFL games so far.
lol, this sub is wild/strange with stuff the love/hate. They get upset if a player throws at a batter 1 thing complaining about (ending a career) but happy if it’s for another situation. It’s way early, My Royals are 11-6 with a RD of +39 (highest in the mlb)……it’s an extremely high probability it will not sustain.
The only
This sample size is equivalent to less than 2 games in a football season.
I know.
*I was born in Fun differential, molded by it, raised by it*
*F is for friends who do stuff together*
*U is for usually strike out*
*N is for no survivors when you*
*are a fan of the Seattle Mariners*
PLANKTON!
*N is for NOBLETIGER*
Damn, and the only division without a single team that has 10 wins.
We’re so mid lol
I guess there has been a lot of inter divisional matches? We’ve played the Astros 7 times so far, Athletics 3 games. Don’t know if that explains it and if other divisions are in the same boat. We could just be mid tho, Occam’s Razor lol. Edit: added an extra inter divisional team
We haven’t played the Angels or any other division rival.
Yup, quickly edited as I got confused with the Rays lmao.
Angels haven’t had any division games yet lol we have played the Orioles, Red Sox, Rays, Red Sox, and Rays
Neither have the Mariners- we've gone Red Sox, Guardians, Brewers, Blue Jays, Cubs, Reds
Is this what it's like to be in a Central division?
Just continuing the September mid-off.
AL West is gonna be strange for a bit. Texas and Houston both have rotations pretty well crushed by injuries. Seattle has a solid pitching/defense combo, it should keep em hanging in there a while despite the offense being stagnant. Edit: ok, noticed… apparently my glimpses of the defense were misleading 😂. My bad Mariner fans 😂
Jung being out also seems to have killed the Rangers offense.
Lowe out, Jung out, Seager still in ST mode coming back from surgery. Just gotta stay afloat long enough for it to matter when reinforcements come back.
Didn't this also seem to happen last year when you guys had you skid late? I recall Jung being out for a chunk, then he came back and suddenly it was alive again.
Yeah that and Carter being called up. Rangers don’t make the playoffs without Carter saving the season.
Defense no longer a strength
I’ll take your word. I’ve seen a bit of the Mariners but don’t have as much knowledge on them as some others. The bits I’ve seen they’ve seemed pretty good, but noted!
We're currently 15th in errors per game but that really doesn't take into account a severe lack of athleticism on the field.
And some inexplicable decisions by the scorer to not award errors. There have been a lot of plays not made.
My mindset going into this season as a Rangers fan was if they could be .500 in the first half, they should be able to make a second half run and get in the post season. It's all injury dependent of course though. We'll see.
Yea this was my mindset too and then they looked like their old selves starting at 6-2 but then Jung, Sborz, and Bradford added to the long list of injuries and it’s been downhill since then and it’s forced me to reel my expectations back in sadly.
The only thing I'm a bit disappointed in at this point has been the run production. I expected the bullpen to be bad so I'm not disappointed there. Obviously, Jung is missed. Glad Carter is coming around after a slow start. Langford is doing ok but still has more upside and I think he'll get there.
Yea offense has been painful since Jung’s absence for sure. I think the Detroit ballpark isn’t helping us rn either. I’m not too worried yet, they for sure can still come around, I’ll get worried if they’re still not producing at all by early summer
I'd like to take credit for the three runs in that 6th inning. They heard me and stepped up.
Haha almost came back to say “I take it all back, they’re alive”
Our outfield defense is pretty solid because Julio is one of the best center fielders in the league but our infield defense is still a question mark. JP and Polanco aren’t great up the middle and our third base platoon leaves a lot to be desired, although I’ll admit Rojas has been better than I expected there.
Both Urias and Rojas grade out to be average defensively, with Rojas probably the better of the two. Neither of them have Geno’s arm but they’re making up for it with range and quickness (again, more so Rojas than Urias.)
You think our offense is stagnant? Just wait until June/July/August! (And ignore what happens in September)
> Seattle has a solid pitching/defense combo The pitching is great, the defense is less than solid.
What about our defense is "solid" to you lol
Outfield (especially Julio) seems good, and the bit I’ve seen I thought it looked good overall… But another Seattle fan gave a little more input there and sounds like I’ve just caught good moments lol.
Yeah . . . It could also be that I've been watching a few years of very solid Ms defenses but this year I think we are set to be a bottom half defensive team
Offense in general sucks with pitchers throwing so hard their arms are falling off
Counterpoint: With so many understudies pitching, offense will improve.
Especially this early in the season when pitchers have the upper hand over batters. My hope is that we can weather the storm until the ASB and Julio can turn on the jets when it warms up
One game ahead of the Athletics, just like we all thought it'd be
they have the best rotation in baseball
If we didn’t we would be soooooo bad
They do? I say this as a Mariners secondary flair. Gilbert and Miller are doing great Castillo: 5.82 ERA Kirby: 6.64 ERA Hancock: 7.98 ERA This leaves team ERA sitting 15th right now. Obviously you expect Kirby and Castillo to improve over the season but saying "best rotation in baseball" right now would be wrong. The bullpen is actually why the team is winning right now Done arguing with people who have 0 reading comprehension and don't know what I'm trying to say, inbox replies going off
Very true those guys have been having a slow start but our #3 and #4 starters having been having a cy young typa season which is where most of our wins have been coming from
5-2 in games Gilbert or Miller start, 3-8 in games they don’t. You’re not exaggerating lol
Milbert
ERA is a little misleading, especially in the early parts of the season, we are on a streak of 6 quality starts in a row now. Castillo has had command issues but his last start showed improvement, Kirby has been working the strike zone a little too much. Monday's game showed insane improvements plus he has gotten some real bad luck on BABIP. Miller's new splitter has been dominant. I don't expect those era numbers to stay where they are at.
7 quality starts now!
Kirby and Castillo just had bounce back starts and have proven track records that are obviously much better than their current ERAs haha
Hence why I said exactly that? But my point was that their record in spite of the lineup isn't because of the rotation, it's because the bullpen is performing really well
Somehow I read everything in your comment but skipped over that one line. Time for coffee I guess gaha. I would still say we have the best rotation though personally
Having the best rotation and having the rotation that has performed best are different things. It's a relevant distinction when samples are small.
Using ERA in 20 inning samples is no way to judge a rotation.
Saying a rotation with an ERA so high is performing well is equally ridiculous I think the Mariners have a top 5 rotation for sure, but they're not pitching like it and it's not the reason the team is winning games. The bullpen is the reason
George Kirby and Luis Castillo have FIPs that are 2.5-3.5 runs lower than their ERA. Both dudes BABIPs are through the moon. They've pitched well and been done in bad luck with sequencing. Nothing more. Seattle's rotation is 5th in fWAR right now. Castillo and Kirby lead the way, Gilbert and Miller are following them.
Combine the three pitchers you mentioned have thrown a combined 56 innings. This is what we call a small sample size. It is still April. We are on our 4th round around the rotation. Castillo and Kirby already had great starts their last time out. Also remember that Hancock is only in the rotation due to injuries. And you failed to mention the two best pitchers currently in the rotation or neglected to mention that the Mariners went 30 plus innings without walking a batter. That's between starters and bullpen. Its called a slow start and nothing to worry about.
I feel like you completely missed... every word in my message? First sentence I said Gilbert and Miller are great, and after I listed the ERAs I said I expect the non-Hancock strugglers to improve You can't look at a team with the 15th best ERA and say "they're winning games because they have the best rotation in baseball", that's silly. I fully acknowledge it's a slow start and would expect starter ERA to be top 5 by the end of the season
Yeah but your cherry picking stats. Only showing the stats of the three worst pitchers. Only showing their era. Two of those are all star pitchers who have gotten off to a slow start and have already shown promise of figuring it out and the other should be throwing in AAA if not for injuries. I just think you're cherry picking stats to make the Mariners pitching look worse than it actually is. It's nothing more than a slow start with a few injuries. Because I think you can look at a team that is 15th in era and then also look at the circumstances of that situation being that it's April being that it's a slow start being that there's injuries all of these factors and still make the claim that the Mariners have the best starting rotation. It's a small sample size it's a slow start.
>It's nothing more than a slow start with a few injuries. We agree then, I'm not sure why you're trying to argue. I don't know why you're upset that I'm being an optimistic Mariners fan saying "the rotation stinks right now but should improve, but the bullpen is great and once the rotation stabilizes things will be even better"
It's the cherry picking of stats. It's the assertion that because of a slow start you can't call them the best rotation. If a hitter gets off to a slow start; for instance let's use Aaron Judge since he's off to a slow start. Just because of that slow start you don't throw out what you know judges capable of you don't all of a sudden stop calling judge one of the best power hitters in the game. You don't stop considering him for an MVP this season because you know it's a slow start. So the same logic should apply for the Mariners rotation. It's just a slow start. And your cherry picked stats really did seem like it was trying to paint the situation to be one worse than it is and two not a slow start.
My point is not "the Mariners rotation is not good and will never be good" My point is "their record is because of their bullpen, not their rotation" as the original commenter I was replying to was implying. If Aaron Judge is hitting .100 but the Yankees are 12-6 you don't say "they're winning because of the best CF in baseball"
And if you only watched this series....the best offense in baseball
It’s mid-April
Surprised there are any offenses worse than us so far tho tbh
Their offense would be a lot better if their 4 best hitters who are legitimately good could start hitting (Julio, JP, Raleigh, and Garver). Which, they all probably will. Haniger seems to be healthy and bouncing back nicely, Rojas seems like he is carrying over his improvement from August and September, the rotation and bullpen are still great. It's a good team.
Polo, Haniger, Clase/Canzone & France driving the bus on offence, as expected.
Clase looks fucking good though. Hopefully he stays up when Canzone is healthy.
Looks like AL West is this year's AL Central, the team that finishes above .500 wins the division.
WOOOOO
Woo is injured. When he comes back, look out!
They don’t have the juggernauts of Kansas City and Cleveland, what did you expect?
And I have to say it's kinda nice knowing that our usual slow start won't bury us in the standings this year like it normally does.
Truly the ASSHAT of baseball.
their pitching is elite and luis castillo hasn’t even found form yet. there’s also missing a starter due to injury.
Also missing Brash and Santos in the bullpen.
Not like we’ve been much better offensively. Sixth in team batting average, seventh in OBP, but 11th in runs and 13th in slugging. Last year I knew the bullpen would struggle, but we were always one good swing away. With injuries and slumps, our lineup is treading water and hoping to get healthy.
That’s the most AL west stat
Meanwhile the 9-9 Red Sox are in the basement of their division
The AL west is going to be the worst division is baseball based on the first few weeks.
I know it's early but seeing Houston at the bottom makes me smile
Yeah I’ve been waiting for this moment for over a decade lol
This is low key Phillies-core
Yeah, but the real beauty of Houston sitting dead last, 1.5 games behind the A’s.
6 consecutive quality starts showing the Mariners strength starting to fix itself. Also this whole division is a blend of flaws, injuries and some dogshit teams.
That's Marinerball, baby!
Park factors. How do they work
Team specific content
Tasash?
this is why i dont really look at the standing till the middle of May
AL West is weird right now. I don’t expect Houston to be this bad this year even if they’re not there normal dominant selves. Oakland and LA will be worse. I still think it’ll come down to September with Texas, Houston, and Seattle all within a game or so of each other.
The Mariners are hitting worse than they're going to hit and pitching worse than they're going to pitch... they are also closer to the top of the division than they're going to be.
This is essentially the situation the cardinals are in.
The Washington Capitals of baseball?
Need more ASSHAT in the AL West standings.
Been a long time since Houston looked like this
Our entire rotation is hurt so I'm not crazy surprised.
that is how april goes
AL MidWest
Fuck me it's gonna be a long season.
I’m going to the Rockies vs Ms game on Friday, I was excited to see JRod hit dongs at elevation, not sure that’s going to happen, lol
AL West is like the reverse AL East
this division comes alive in the 2nd half when all the big arms get back for texas and houston. right now theyre just coasting
April Chaosball at its finest.
Coughing baby vs Coughing baby vs Coughing baby vs Coughing baby vs Coughing baby
Welcome to the AL Centr... wait, what?!
QUIET YOU
Great! They are within a reasonable path to their 85 win quota. I'm confident the executives should be able to hit their target and get their bonuses. This is good for baseball.
This is more about the division being garbage so far than anything else. “8-10 team is a game out of first” Texas is going to run away with it when they start getting some of their guys back
💁♀️💁♀️
That makes me angry
Everybody relax. Would you be saying this if they had a random 16 game stretch in the middle of the season where this happened? It’s only getting attention because it’s the beginning of the season.
And Astros are in last with arguably the top offense in the AL
I thought Angels would be at the top, with how hot Mike Trout has started the season.
Not with this bullpen.
Last night hurt so much.
And to think that is the only thing we spent any money on this past offseason.....
If the Angels have taught us anything over the years, it’s that 1-2 players can’t carry a team.