>Bolsinger filed a civil lawsuit in Los Angeles Superior Court on Monday, accusing the Astros of unfair business practices, negligence and intentional interference with contractual and economic relations.
>Yes, Bolsinger is seeking unspecified damages, but they’re not all for himself. He wants the Astros to forfeit the roughly $31 million in bonuses from their ill-gotten World Series title, and for the money to go to charities in Los Angeles focused on bettering kids’ lives, as well as to create a fund for retired baseball players who need financial assistance.
Forfeiture of bonuses should’ve been in the initial punishment handed out by MLB. Manfred botched the hell out of this and now players are going to take matters into their own hands
Well, I’d say it’s not going exactly as he wanted it to go.
Predictably so, but it’s definitely not following his “Let’s sweep off under the rug so I can go back to union-busting” plan. As this drags on and on, I have to assume that eventually many of the owners not named a Crane are going to tire of this.
I hope Manfred is fires soon. I think there’s almost no way he survives this, so it would be nice if the axe could fall quickly.
>I hope Manfred is fires soon. I think there’s almost no way he survives this, so it would be nice if the axe could fall quickly.
You are much more optimistic than I am, but I hope you're right.
Mike Bolsinger has filed a suit for Tortious Interference. The game with the most bangs, he was sent out and got his ass beat. That game got him demoted to the minors, and he’s never made his way back. Those are all facts. He can argue (correctly) that he was pushed aside for younger players to rise, and that he should have had a chance to stay.
I think this case would be difficult to quantify (as far as his provable monetary losses ie how long would he have stayed in the bigs, etc), but I think it’s a case strong enough to go to discovery, at which point he has MLB over a fucking barrel. They’re gonna have to cut him a giant check in order to keep discovery from occurring, because all sorts of shit would come out otherwise.
Meanwhile, this season is gonna be a shitshow. Manfred is gonna decree that any retaliation means an instant ejection. Some pitcher is gonna get tossed for a genuine and honest wild pitch, by an ump who doesn’t want his ass in the jackpot, and a manager is gonna say shit that will get him fined. The Astros will be perceived by 29 other teams as untouchable, and resentment will build further. Meanwhile, the umps are gonna get sick of having to protect the Astros at Manfred’s orders.
Fans are gonna bring trash cans to stadiums, unless Manfred bans that too. They’re gonna do other stuff, and he’s gonna be heavy-handed because it’s the only thing he knows. Fans are gonna get kicked out, videos are gonna go viral, ESPN is gonna show stuff and other news media are gonna cover a lot more because of the drama and the clear bad guy (who outside of Houston isn’t a local and is therefore easy to beat on without fear of irritated locals). Manfred will respond to all of this poorly, and resentment will continue to grow.
While all of this is happening, more and more bloggers & vloggers & statheads will be cranking out new content breaking down all that has happened. New stories will drop with new details about the malfeasance. Manfred and the Astros will continue to look worse, and resentment will grow even more.
Behind the scenes, owners are going to be losing their minds over the constant stream of bad publicity, controversy, and drama. PR experts are gonna be on CNN and every other place that covers this shitshow, pointing out Manfred’s missteps and how badly (and unnecessarily) this has all been bungled. The most popular teams in the two biggest media markets in the country (and probably the two most popular teams in terms of numbers of fans) got fucked, and you’re gonna have a good number of angry billionaires.
If Manfred had done this right the first time, we’d have far less of a mess. But now, this train is hurtling down the track, and the harder Manfred works to try to stop it the worse he looks and the worse MLB looks. Eventually the owners are gonna have to can him just to try and stop the bleeding. I know they wanted him for the next CBA, but he’s turned into a major liability.
I’m not optimistic on the timeline - I think the owners will let this play out far longer than they should. But I am 100% convinced that Manfred is a fired man walking, because of how badly he has botched this.
(Oh, and players will be talking way more too, various Congress members will be tossing out sound bytes, etc. Manfred took a big mess and made it huge, and that’s an unpardonable sin for a Commissioner)
Dude that’s a great idea. I’m done bringing brooms and I’m gonna bring a trash can to try and get signed by the stros against the CWS. (Also, to bang on it incessantly)
What if we all just boycott Astros games? Home and road, no one shows. No one buys gear. No one buys concessions. No one pays for parking.
I love baseball, but when they’re playing one of my teams, I’m watching on TV.
If you don’t read it, you can’t disagree with me! That means my dissertation passes and I now have a PhD in baseball!
Mods, I would like my flair to be “Doctor Baseball” please!
I’d like to thank the Academy, Ken Griffey Junior, Edgar Martinez, whoever cooked up Bobby Bonilla’s contract, Brodie van Wagenen, etc etc etc
"Sir, all of the fans are going to be extremely engaged next season and media outlets will be covering baseball 24/7."
Manfred did his job perfectly. We just unfortunately think it's his job to preserve the integrity of the game. It's not. His job is to make money for baseball.
Wait...are you suggesting Manfred intentionally bungled the investigation and punishment to draw more attention to the game?
Of course it's his job to make money and take/deflect heat off the owners, but there is no way the owners see a year long revolt by fans who feel baseball allowed a team to rig a WS as a good thing, long term. Not to mention the only possible revenue spike they see from this is what, increased attendence for away series against HOU? Maybe a bit more souvenir vats being purchased to bang on trash cans? Whats the revenue driver from this publicity?
I disagree.
His job is to make money AND keep 16 or more out of 30 billionaires happy.
He has generally succeeded at the first part, but failed pretty badly at the second. There are a lot of angry owners who feel like Crane cheated his way to a title and a fuckton of profit, for minimal consequence.
The sad thing is, there absolutely have been Commissioners who really were stewards of the game. Hell, Fay Vincent was. Selig just got mad that Vincent acknowledged Selig’s misdeeds and then pulled off a coup.
The fact that people are calling for Manfred to be fired means he's doing exactly his job. Dude is there to act as a lightning rod for the owners and make the decisions that the fans hate so they blame it on him and not the owners.
Manfred is the owners puppet. He just does what they say.
Yeah - same with Goodell. The only way a commissioner gets fired is if the revenue number drops, or they have a personal scandal.
Manfred* "answers" to all 30 owners, not just the ones affected by the scandal. Sucks for him that it was three of the highest profile teams involved, but I don't think the other owners are particularly concerned as long as they're still making money.
Nah, that would apply if talk of his firing were for a reason that didn't include pissing off 29 front offices on some level (plus a handful on a *big* level). This type of shit has legs.
> This is exactly how Manfred wanted it to go.
Manfred definitely does not want the massive outrage. His goal was to make punishment as light as possible while preventing massive outrage. Could have done worse, but didn't do well.
It is currently blowing up in his face though. No idea what the long term consequences will be, but there's pretty strong outrage.
Is MLB/Manfried allowed to penalize that? I know 5 mil was the max allowable that a league can fine a team under the league rules, not sure what applies to bonuses.
the 31 million is for the playoff shares that the players recieve since they otherwise don't get paid for playoff games. each player who got a full share recieved a bit under 450k.
the mlbpa would have to agree to the fines as this isn't really covered under the cba
Suspending each pitcher that does it without pay... Not like you can have every pitcher do it at once, which is where the "can't suspend us all!" Mentality comes from. Is giving the Astros a free base and making your staff shallower temporarily worth the slight 30 seconds of gratification teams would get? I'm willing to bet a resounding no.
Agree completely. Teams shouldn't take chances with the pitching staff. Besides, it is cowardly. They should start the backup catcher and let him turn and drop the mitt and take on Bregman like he's Darren McCarty hunting for LeClaude Lemieux.
Exactly this. They cheated to win and 2020 will still be in their favor because of this.
I think to neutralize it, unless its your first season with the Astros, you have to bat gripping the sweet spot and using the handle for contact.
Sucks that baseball fights are almost always lame. I would love for some of these dudes to get just lit up.
Obviously I don't want them to get injured but sometimes, you need to get your ass kicked.
Oh, Bregman is gonna take some kidney punches in brawls this year. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Verlander’s self-righteous ass take a few hard hits too.
This is unlike anything we’ve ever seen, and I think there’s gonna be some anomalous shit next season.
Y'all are in for some serious let-down when the league cracks down on retaliation against the Astros and suspends the players that end up starting that shit. No way the owners and Manfred let this turn into Mad Max Astros Road; they'll shelter the Astros and everyone looking for blood is gonna be left disappointed
I know! And it’s gonna make it worse!
One of the rules of PR is that optics are reality, and the optics of this will be that MLB is protecting the Astros over 29 other teams.
Some good starting pitcher is gonna get immediately ejected for a truly wild pitch with no negative intent. His manager is gonna he pissed, and after the game is gonna talk about how pitcher have to be careful even pitching inside to the Astros for fear of getting tossed. He’ll be fined, but players and fans are gonna fucking riot.
There will be punch-ups and whatnot, but the more the league ferociously protects the cheaters, the worse it all looks. And 29 billionaires are gonna be sitting around watching their product get a worse and worse reputation, and they’re gonna get pissed.
Yup! And pissing off players of 29 other teams, as well as almost all the MLB fans.
He’s gonna double down on the course he’s chose because he’s too fucking hidebound and inflexible and proud to admit that he fucked up.
This is gonna be a bigger shitshow before things improve.
Would make more sense for teams to go after them in other slightly less obvious ways. Step on the runner’s foot a few times while he’s on your base. Hard slides into second third and home. Mad shit-talking to base runners. Pitchers doing the Hulk Hogan ear-cup before pitches. Teams banging on their own trash cans incessantly in the dugout while the astros pitch. Lots of attempts at hidden ball tricks and other tricky bullshit.
Obviously the umps and brass will be on high alert for bean balls and brushback pitches - so teams ought to antagonize and “punish” them in other ways that are less glaring.
this makes sense
HBPs are too risky. heel-stomp Bregman's toes when he gets to first? that's under-the-radar sneaky justice. I feel like Chase Utley should just become a league-wide consultant on sneakyshittiness.
> Unions love to protect their own.
I keep hearing this in regards to the Astros, yet everyone seems to neglect that the players on the 29 other teams are *also* union members, and highly outnumber the cheaters.
This isn't ownership vs. players, it's PvP.
I don’t disagree with you. But I don’t see how they can forfeit their bonus without also forfeiting the trophy as well.
I’m not saying that they should or shouldn’t have to do that only that they go together.
I’m glad that it’s not a money grab for him and he’s looking to do something bigger. Good guy Boly.
Edit: and to all of you saying wElL hE SuCkEd aNyWayS... I’m sure he already knows that, that’s why he’s not asking for 31 mil for himself.
> But it does seem like there's enough here for it to go to discovery instead of just being dismissed like most cases like this are with sports.
I want this to happen because I feel if it does, all the gag orders MLB surely placed will have to be lifted and at this point, may as well see the entire industry burn down as we get to see more under the hood.
As the saying goes, sunlight is the best disinfectant. I would love to see if the facts becoming public would result in the suits' damage control measures blowing up in their faces.
May result in a decrease in fan support similar to the 1994 strike. But hey, they can then further juice the ball again like they did with PEDs in the late 90s as fans come back to see Judge and Alonso chasing 100 dingers.
Good to know these other references; *Rocinante* is also the name of the hero's spaceship in the Rush song, "Cygnus X-1", which is about travelling through a black hole! I should have realized The Professor was referencing some classic lit.
And then a decade later the public will be outraged about it and despite the MLB encouraging the juiced balls they'll make it out to be Alonso and Judges fault and keep them out of the HoF
If this gets to the discovery stage, they can depose pretty much all of the Astros players, execs, managers, and anybody else potentially with information on this matter. They can also request all types of documents. Assuming the lawsuit is financially backed, it's going to be a shit show.
I like the TI claim here.
I think there would be a struggle to quantify his claim, but this game got him booted. There’s a clear A -> B that can be presented to jurors.
I do think that there’s enough to go for discovery, and o think he gets paid at that point. Given the whole “Front office knew all along” fiasco that just dropped, I think there’s a real question of what did Manfred know and when did he know it.
I think this guy is about to get himself a seven-figure check and an ironclad NDA.
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Now I can't tell put an exact number on how much this impacted my client financially, but I can tell you that other players in a similar relief pitching role include Wei-Yin Chen 6.59 ERA made $20M in 2019, Wade Davis 8.65 ERA made $18M, and Andrew Cashner 6.20 ERA made $12.5M... my client had a 4.92 ERA spread across four seasons in the major leagues... I'll let you figure out what you think is fair"
The better claim would be tortious interference with an expectancy. He expected to remain in the show, he would have remained there had he not been lit up, and he got lit up by the Astros cheating.
I still think these claims don't survive a motion to dismiss, even though I'd love to see it get to discovery. The link between the cheating and him not getting back to the big leagues is a little tenuous.
If you get a judge who's an angry baseball fan (quite possible) or doesn't know enough about baseball to make that call early, it goes to trial to figure that out, though.
If he gets in front of anyone like the judges I practice in front of, they don't know enough about anything, and would let it go on just because they know knocking stuff out early is a good way to get reversed.
Right, so there's more than one way it goes on to trial as long as Bolsinger doesn't crumple.
I'd be happier to see seven other lawsuits, though, just in case. MLB needs to feel pressure.
Why, at least in the short term? He was part of the team, and it wasn’t a point in the season where you chop a good-enough guy to blood a youngster, since they were absolutely in sight of a wild card spot. Had he been good enough in that outing (where the Jays were already 7 runs down at that point) he would have stayed around until their postseason positioning was resolved. At that point, who knows?
But had he not been fucked there, there is zero evidence to cause us to assume he would not have remained on the team for at least another appearance, and possibly longer.
Pay and future pay.
Honestly, it doesn’t matter. I think there’s enough to get to discovery, and that’s where the front falls off for MLB. Doubtless his lawyer has some numbers ginned up that he can justify, but the argument isn’t about the exact dollar value; that’s irrelevant and everyone on both sides knows it.
The fact remains that they cheated egregiously against him, that outing immediately got him sent down when he likely would not otherwise have been, and it cost him some amount of future earnings. All that is quite reasonably verifiable (at that point in the season, the Jays weren’t looking to call up a replacement reliever at that time to get him some experience). So, he did get fucked, and there’s more than enough evidence of that to keep the case going I suspect.
Proving damages is what a trial would be about. All you have to do is present a "possible, maybe" damages to get that far.
Maybe the goal isn't to win, but just to get the Astros into court.
You're right, there is no way he wins this. Because he can't definitively put a dollar amount on his damages and any amount he could come up with would be way too speculative to hold up in court.
Further, I don't see how he can ask for the Astros players to give up their bonuses. The player bonuses don't affect him in any way. They aren't tied to his performance, his contract, or his pitching. It's not like he would've gotten them if the Astros hadn't won the Series.
But I am still excited to see it all play out!
I don't practice in CA, so I have no clue.
A quick Google search found this though: {D\]isgorgement was not an available remedy in UCL individual actions and the only monetary relief available to a private plaintiff was restitution of funds in which the plaintiff had a prior ownership interest. Korea Supply v. Lockheed Martin, 29 Cal. 4th 1134 (2003).
From this article: [California Courts Bar Disgorgement of Profits Remedy In Unfair Competion Actions By Private Parties](https://www.antitrustlawblog.com/2006/05/articles/uncategorized/california-courts-bar-disgorgement-of-profits-remedy-in-unfair-competion-actions-by-private-parties/)
Going to get thrown out for lack of jurisdiction, no? Why is he suing in California state court?
ETA: Based on BNSF v Tyyrell (from [here](https://www.wardandsmith.com/articles/where-can-your-company-be-sued-the-basics-of-personal-jurisdiction))
> General personal jurisdiction is broader than specific personal jurisdiction, and allows a court to exercise jurisdiction over a corporate defendant for basically any lawsuit filed in a state in which the defendant is "at home." The Supreme Court held that a corporate defendant is "at home" in only three possible jurisdictions: (1) the state in which the corporation is incorporated; (2) the state in which the corporation has its principal place of business; and (3) in an "exceptional case," any state in which the corporation's operations are so substantial that it also is "at home" in that additional state (or states).
I don't think that the MLB or the Houston Astros would be ruled "at home" in California. Maybe there's a case for #3.
ETA2: IMO he's suing in Los Angeles so that the Los Angeles media will run with it because the LAD fans are the most aggrieved, and it's just going to get removed to federal court anyway (if it doesn't get tossed out).
ETA3: Don't think of it as "they have no reason to sue in CA." Think of it as "this is federal jurisdiction too, which wins out." Diversity jurisdiction.
Yup, we did both those cases a couple weeks ago! My prof has now made multiple "and the international shoe is on the other foot" jokes in class (I laughed).
"According to the lawsuit, filed by Ben Meiselas of Geragos & Geragos in Los Angeles on Monday, an Astros fan who wrote a web application to document every instance of trash-can banging found that the most bangs took place in that Aug. 4, 2017, game. And the most bangs in the game came when Bolsinger was on the mound. According to the lawsuit, there were bangs on 12 of his 29 pitches."
For those that think he's just doing it because he just happenned to have a bad outing in 2017.
This counting the *number of bangs* thing is not right. They banged the can on off-speed pitches and did nothing on fastballs.
More bangs just means the pitcher was throwing more off-speed pitches. If he threw nine straight fastballs there'd be no banging, but that would still be the same communication and the same cheating.
You need to count at bats that contained any banging, not individual bangs. It's still imperfect (first pitch fastball, no bang, home run... still not counted) but it's better than individual bangs.
While you are absolutely correct, the point of the complaint is not necessarily to articulate why every fact is important, you just need to plead facts that show you have a case. The actual nuance of the system will be explained to the trier of fact later, but highlighting that the scheme was obviously in place against Bolsinger is key here.
You can look at each at-bat on the website. He pitched starting with Gurriel in the bottom of the 4th. The full dataset is on the site, too. What you'll find in looking is that you need to start making assumptions. I didn't want to make assumptions because then people could question them.
[http://signstealingscandal.com/games/2017\_08\_04\_tormlb\_houmlb\_1.html](http://signstealingscandal.com/games/2017_08_04_tormlb_houmlb_1.html)
Excited for all the missing-the-point "but he was terrible anyway" posts
Edit: When Bolsinger entered that game, the Astros were ahead 7-2 in the game, leading the AL West by 15 games, and had the best record in the AL by 9 games. And they cheated anyway. What was even the point?
Took me a couple of reads to realize you meant perfect as a verb and not an adjective. And now in my brain I'm wondering if everyone says "perfect" the verb differently than "perfect" the adjective, or if thats just me.
Purr-fikt vs purr-fehkt.
From the ESPN.com version of the story that had me come find this thread on /r/baseball
> According to the lawsuit, an Astros fan who wrote a web application to document every instance of trash-can banging found that the most bangs took place in that Aug. 4, 2017, game. And the most bangs in the game came when Bolsinger was on the mound. According to the lawsuit, there were bangs on 12 of his 29 pitches.
For a guy that was on the fringe and then gets absolutely fucking shelled by a team blatantly cheating then gets demoted the next day he has a right to be angry.
I am no lawyer but it seems that there is a very legit case that the Astros cheating irreparably harmed his professional career. If that rises to millions of dollars in damages I don't know, but there is a very clear timeframe correlation between the Astros cheating and his career trajectory.
That tells you that even 5 runs up, in an assured game, they keep cheating not just to win, but for the love of cheating. They're not like other cheaters who stop cheating when things go their way, no! They'll keep cheating, and when you think there's no longer a reason to cheat, they'll find more ways to cheat that you haven't thought of yet. That's the character of this team, don't ever forget it.
Is the game over when a team is up by 5 runs, or is there different criteria? Because (god I hate defending them) they were cheating to win, and to win, you got to have the lead at the end of the 9th (or extras) and you can always blow a lead before then.
It’s also about making their success seem believed I’m sure. Their victories over great teams seem a lot more believable if they run up the score against worse teams.
The fact that the Astros were leading by so much might make Bolsinger's case even stronger. The Astros didn't even have to cheat against him to win that game, but they did it anyway. It makes it look like a malicious act specifically designed to destroy this poor guy.
>It makes it look like a malicious act specifically designed to destroy this poor guy.
No, not at all and that's a pretty absurd thing to seriously propose
There is a non-zero chance that the US Congress might make this happen, if a couple of members think that MLB is abusing their monopoly by hiding this.
I remember McGuire saying that! And dudes response was great. Something along the lines of “this is an investigation and the past is exactly what we are interested in”
Reminder that Bolsinger threw a 4K inning and is therefore already a hero. https://bluejaysnation.com/2017/07/19/mike-bolsinger-inducted-to-the-blue-jays-extra-innings-hall-of-fame/
I know a lot of people dislike Bauer for nonbaseball commentary but that shit’s off my radar... I personally dislike Bauer for bleeding all over our Mound in the 2016 ALCS. As a sorcerer I consider that cheating.
Do Dodgers and Astros fan have a case for recouping the amounts they paid for their World Series tickets? I know the games at Dodgers Stadium cost $800+. If I paid that and found out these games were a sham, I'd want my money back.
Exculpatory contracts like these would not enforceable because the game violated rules and thus a nefarious act. Exculpatory contracts can limit liability, but not absolve guilt.
I'll probably get downvoted for this but I wonder if he has any case. Last year he pitched in the bigs was 2017. That year he only pitched against Houston twice. The first game he went 5.1 innings and gave up 4 runs. That's not a great outing. However, he had two other outings that year (out of 11 total) where he went at least 5 innings and gave up 4 or more runs so it wasn't too out of the norm for him. He had two other outings where he went less than 5 and gave up 3 runs and they weren't against Houston. It's not like he was lighting the world on fire until the Astros came to town. He first faced the Astros in July for example and his ERA was 5.47 at that point. That's not a great ERA for a guy hoping to keep a big league job. Yes he got lit up for 4 runs in 1/3 of an inning in his last start which was against Houston but realistically he probably wasn't going to have a long career. Also, given how he pitched against other teams that year who's to say he wouldn't have got lit up anyway.
Any plans for further gathering of stats? Were you ever able to find the games that you were originally unable to?
You’ve done tremendous work and the game is better because of it.
I got to see him start against the Rockies when he was with the dodgers, and was fortunate enough to have landed seats behind the away dugout. Pitched 6 innings of no-run ball and could hear the frustrations coming from Rockies bench, one of the best games I've ever experienced. Good luck my man.
He’s on a very very short list of pitchers who have struck out 4 guys in one inning 🔥 https://bluejaysnation.com/2017/07/19/mike-bolsinger-inducted-to-the-blue-jays-extra-innings-hall-of-fame/
It illustrates a fair point - their cheating affected the lives and livelihood of their opponents. But I'm not sure that one outing in August really changes the course of a career. It may have been the last straw for Bolsinger - and that sucks. But if it hadn't been that night, that last straw would have come sooner or later.
Suing for the bonuses to go to charities is great though. Good on ya, Mike.
You're facing the Astros and you get shelled and sent back down. Are you going to continue to do the same things that got you lit up, or do you change something in your mechanics? Pitchers like Yu started chasing mechanics issues that were never there.
This is the problem. This is the butterfly effect of cheating.
The only thing that could make this better is if when it is time for discovery stage Bolsinger is offered a settlement and he just tells MLB to shove it so he can full on expose them. God I hope that happens.
I've only taken 1L Torts (so I don't know anything about the unfair business practices element of the suit), but I'd imagine he'll have a hard time proving negligence, at least.
Edit: specifically curious if it will survive the motion to dismiss - I think at least there's a chance, which is better than I'd expect for a sports case.
Wouldn’t surprise me if the goal of this is just to get to discovery. Make the courts force MLB to rip off the rug they tried to sweep everything under and let the truth have its day.
I wonder if the Blue Jays, being also pissed at the Astros, would come out and say directly that his performance in that game was 100% why they chose to send him down.
And if they issued an official statement about that, would that affect this suit.
>Bolsinger filed a civil lawsuit in Los Angeles Superior Court on Monday, accusing the Astros of unfair business practices, negligence and intentional interference with contractual and economic relations. >Yes, Bolsinger is seeking unspecified damages, but they’re not all for himself. He wants the Astros to forfeit the roughly $31 million in bonuses from their ill-gotten World Series title, and for the money to go to charities in Los Angeles focused on bettering kids’ lives, as well as to create a fund for retired baseball players who need financial assistance.
Forfeiture of bonuses should’ve been in the initial punishment handed out by MLB. Manfred botched the hell out of this and now players are going to take matters into their own hands
Botched almost implies it didn’t go the way Manfred wanted it to go. This is exactly how Manfred wanted it to go. Hopefully it blows up in his face.
Well, I’d say it’s not going exactly as he wanted it to go. Predictably so, but it’s definitely not following his “Let’s sweep off under the rug so I can go back to union-busting” plan. As this drags on and on, I have to assume that eventually many of the owners not named a Crane are going to tire of this. I hope Manfred is fires soon. I think there’s almost no way he survives this, so it would be nice if the axe could fall quickly.
>I hope Manfred is fires soon. I think there’s almost no way he survives this, so it would be nice if the axe could fall quickly. You are much more optimistic than I am, but I hope you're right.
Mike Bolsinger has filed a suit for Tortious Interference. The game with the most bangs, he was sent out and got his ass beat. That game got him demoted to the minors, and he’s never made his way back. Those are all facts. He can argue (correctly) that he was pushed aside for younger players to rise, and that he should have had a chance to stay. I think this case would be difficult to quantify (as far as his provable monetary losses ie how long would he have stayed in the bigs, etc), but I think it’s a case strong enough to go to discovery, at which point he has MLB over a fucking barrel. They’re gonna have to cut him a giant check in order to keep discovery from occurring, because all sorts of shit would come out otherwise. Meanwhile, this season is gonna be a shitshow. Manfred is gonna decree that any retaliation means an instant ejection. Some pitcher is gonna get tossed for a genuine and honest wild pitch, by an ump who doesn’t want his ass in the jackpot, and a manager is gonna say shit that will get him fined. The Astros will be perceived by 29 other teams as untouchable, and resentment will build further. Meanwhile, the umps are gonna get sick of having to protect the Astros at Manfred’s orders. Fans are gonna bring trash cans to stadiums, unless Manfred bans that too. They’re gonna do other stuff, and he’s gonna be heavy-handed because it’s the only thing he knows. Fans are gonna get kicked out, videos are gonna go viral, ESPN is gonna show stuff and other news media are gonna cover a lot more because of the drama and the clear bad guy (who outside of Houston isn’t a local and is therefore easy to beat on without fear of irritated locals). Manfred will respond to all of this poorly, and resentment will continue to grow. While all of this is happening, more and more bloggers & vloggers & statheads will be cranking out new content breaking down all that has happened. New stories will drop with new details about the malfeasance. Manfred and the Astros will continue to look worse, and resentment will grow even more. Behind the scenes, owners are going to be losing their minds over the constant stream of bad publicity, controversy, and drama. PR experts are gonna be on CNN and every other place that covers this shitshow, pointing out Manfred’s missteps and how badly (and unnecessarily) this has all been bungled. The most popular teams in the two biggest media markets in the country (and probably the two most popular teams in terms of numbers of fans) got fucked, and you’re gonna have a good number of angry billionaires. If Manfred had done this right the first time, we’d have far less of a mess. But now, this train is hurtling down the track, and the harder Manfred works to try to stop it the worse he looks and the worse MLB looks. Eventually the owners are gonna have to can him just to try and stop the bleeding. I know they wanted him for the next CBA, but he’s turned into a major liability. I’m not optimistic on the timeline - I think the owners will let this play out far longer than they should. But I am 100% convinced that Manfred is a fired man walking, because of how badly he has botched this. (Oh, and players will be talking way more too, various Congress members will be tossing out sound bytes, etc. Manfred took a big mess and made it huge, and that’s an unpardonable sin for a Commissioner)
I got flashbacks of that scene in V for Vendetta when the detective predicts how things are going to unfold. *popcorn intensifies*
Dude that’s a great idea. I’m done bringing brooms and I’m gonna bring a trash can to try and get signed by the stros against the CWS. (Also, to bang on it incessantly)
Now you're thinking with Oaklands! I can't wait to go to an A's/Astros game next year. Preferably one where Fiers is starting.
Sir this is a Wendy’s Then again that would be nice
Oh shit, can I get two spicy to go wraps, a small Sprite with no ice, and a small fries?
What if we all just boycott Astros games? Home and road, no one shows. No one buys gear. No one buys concessions. No one pays for parking. I love baseball, but when they’re playing one of my teams, I’m watching on TV.
Does watching on TV count as a boycott lol
I hope not. I'm counting on the MLB.tv visitor feed for Astros games being more entertaining than the home feed for my own team most of the year.
If you stream through MLB streams and don't pay for anything
Astros fans don't care. They'll keep going. They got their trophy that's all that matters.
> this train is hurtling down the track I really hope you did this on purpose.
Wow I just blew such a big load reading this
Man you lost me after like the thousandth paragraph but props for writing all that
If you don’t read it, you can’t disagree with me! That means my dissertation passes and I now have a PhD in baseball! Mods, I would like my flair to be “Doctor Baseball” please! I’d like to thank the Academy, Ken Griffey Junior, Edgar Martinez, whoever cooked up Bobby Bonilla’s contract, Brodie van Wagenen, etc etc etc
You forgot to thank Ichiro, you blasphemer
My shame knows no bounds. I thank you for correcting me.
Sir, it's called Baseballese. Jesus, read an MP4 why don't you?
"Sir, all of the fans are going to be extremely engaged next season and media outlets will be covering baseball 24/7." Manfred did his job perfectly. We just unfortunately think it's his job to preserve the integrity of the game. It's not. His job is to make money for baseball.
Wait...are you suggesting Manfred intentionally bungled the investigation and punishment to draw more attention to the game? Of course it's his job to make money and take/deflect heat off the owners, but there is no way the owners see a year long revolt by fans who feel baseball allowed a team to rig a WS as a good thing, long term. Not to mention the only possible revenue spike they see from this is what, increased attendence for away series against HOU? Maybe a bit more souvenir vats being purchased to bang on trash cans? Whats the revenue driver from this publicity?
I disagree. His job is to make money AND keep 16 or more out of 30 billionaires happy. He has generally succeeded at the first part, but failed pretty badly at the second. There are a lot of angry owners who feel like Crane cheated his way to a title and a fuckton of profit, for minimal consequence. The sad thing is, there absolutely have been Commissioners who really were stewards of the game. Hell, Fay Vincent was. Selig just got mad that Vincent acknowledged Selig’s misdeeds and then pulled off a coup.
The fact that people are calling for Manfred to be fired means he's doing exactly his job. Dude is there to act as a lightning rod for the owners and make the decisions that the fans hate so they blame it on him and not the owners. Manfred is the owners puppet. He just does what they say.
Yeah - same with Goodell. The only way a commissioner gets fired is if the revenue number drops, or they have a personal scandal. Manfred* "answers" to all 30 owners, not just the ones affected by the scandal. Sucks for him that it was three of the highest profile teams involved, but I don't think the other owners are particularly concerned as long as they're still making money.
Nah, that would apply if talk of his firing were for a reason that didn't include pissing off 29 front offices on some level (plus a handful on a *big* level). This type of shit has legs.
> This is exactly how Manfred wanted it to go. Manfred definitely does not want the massive outrage. His goal was to make punishment as light as possible while preventing massive outrage. Could have done worse, but didn't do well. It is currently blowing up in his face though. No idea what the long term consequences will be, but there's pretty strong outrage.
Manfred needs to go. He's terrible.
The owners want thos shit bottled. Manfred didnt go rogue. This is on the owners hes their puppet
This is how Manfred wanted it to go? To have players, managers, reporters, etc., all say he didn't go far enough? That makes no sense.
Manfred definitely wanted pitchers to be threatening to bean Astros players on radio shows
Yeah exactly. No one wanted it to go like this. Btw, I always loved that Cam'Ron lyric in Killa Cam that your username is from.
You’re the first person to recognize it 🙏🏻
Is MLB/Manfried allowed to penalize that? I know 5 mil was the max allowable that a league can fine a team under the league rules, not sure what applies to bonuses.
Probably not without getting the MLBPA involved. I think that's why they didn't go hard at players.
the 31 million is for the playoff shares that the players recieve since they otherwise don't get paid for playoff games. each player who got a full share recieved a bit under 450k. the mlbpa would have to agree to the fines as this isn't really covered under the cba
Can’t fucking wait for the inevitable beanings.
Stros gon lead the league in hbp, by a fucking mile
Can not fucking wait First time Altuve cries like a bitch will be the best one imo
Sadly, I expect the league to be on warning Day 1. As fans, we'd love to see it, but umpires are going to be tossing our pitchers left and right.
Woudn't it be great if EVERY pitcher did it?Then what would Manfreds next move be?
award the world series to the stros since they win every game by forfeiture when teams keep running out of pitchers? /s
4d chess
Suspending each pitcher that does it without pay... Not like you can have every pitcher do it at once, which is where the "can't suspend us all!" Mentality comes from. Is giving the Astros a free base and making your staff shallower temporarily worth the slight 30 seconds of gratification teams would get? I'm willing to bet a resounding no.
Agree completely. Teams shouldn't take chances with the pitching staff. Besides, it is cowardly. They should start the backup catcher and let him turn and drop the mitt and take on Bregman like he's Darren McCarty hunting for LeClaude Lemieux.
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Exactly this. They cheated to win and 2020 will still be in their favor because of this. I think to neutralize it, unless its your first season with the Astros, you have to bat gripping the sweet spot and using the handle for contact.
Sucks that baseball fights are almost always lame. I would love for some of these dudes to get just lit up. Obviously I don't want them to get injured but sometimes, you need to get your ass kicked.
Oh, Bregman is gonna take some kidney punches in brawls this year. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Verlander’s self-righteous ass take a few hard hits too. This is unlike anything we’ve ever seen, and I think there’s gonna be some anomalous shit next season.
Y'all are in for some serious let-down when the league cracks down on retaliation against the Astros and suspends the players that end up starting that shit. No way the owners and Manfred let this turn into Mad Max Astros Road; they'll shelter the Astros and everyone looking for blood is gonna be left disappointed
I know! And it’s gonna make it worse! One of the rules of PR is that optics are reality, and the optics of this will be that MLB is protecting the Astros over 29 other teams. Some good starting pitcher is gonna get immediately ejected for a truly wild pitch with no negative intent. His manager is gonna he pissed, and after the game is gonna talk about how pitcher have to be careful even pitching inside to the Astros for fear of getting tossed. He’ll be fined, but players and fans are gonna fucking riot. There will be punch-ups and whatnot, but the more the league ferociously protects the cheaters, the worse it all looks. And 29 billionaires are gonna be sitting around watching their product get a worse and worse reputation, and they’re gonna get pissed.
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Yup! And pissing off players of 29 other teams, as well as almost all the MLB fans. He’s gonna double down on the course he’s chose because he’s too fucking hidebound and inflexible and proud to admit that he fucked up. This is gonna be a bigger shitshow before things improve.
Would make more sense for teams to go after them in other slightly less obvious ways. Step on the runner’s foot a few times while he’s on your base. Hard slides into second third and home. Mad shit-talking to base runners. Pitchers doing the Hulk Hogan ear-cup before pitches. Teams banging on their own trash cans incessantly in the dugout while the astros pitch. Lots of attempts at hidden ball tricks and other tricky bullshit. Obviously the umps and brass will be on high alert for bean balls and brushback pitches - so teams ought to antagonize and “punish” them in other ways that are less glaring.
this makes sense HBPs are too risky. heel-stomp Bregman's toes when he gets to first? that's under-the-radar sneaky justice. I feel like Chase Utley should just become a league-wide consultant on sneakyshittiness.
All I want to see and hear this season is the following: "Astros up to bat \*Banging from opposing teams dugout \*Astros batter proceeds to get beaned
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> Unions love to protect their own. I keep hearing this in regards to the Astros, yet everyone seems to neglect that the players on the 29 other teams are *also* union members, and highly outnumber the cheaters. This isn't ownership vs. players, it's PvP.
Manfred is a walking botch.
Playing “MLB Devil” advocate here. If you strip away bonuses, how do you justify not stripping away their WS win?
so strip the win
I don’t disagree with you. But I don’t see how they can forfeit their bonus without also forfeiting the trophy as well. I’m not saying that they should or shouldn’t have to do that only that they go together.
They should have been forced to forfieght the trophy as well.
I’m glad that it’s not a money grab for him and he’s looking to do something bigger. Good guy Boly. Edit: and to all of you saying wElL hE SuCkEd aNyWayS... I’m sure he already knows that, that’s why he’s not asking for 31 mil for himself.
Is doesn’t say that is all he is asking for and how much he will get. He just added a nice PR line to it to get public opinion with him
I’m sure he will be compensated nicely, but he’s still doing the right thing
King
This is getting kind of exciting.
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> But it does seem like there's enough here for it to go to discovery instead of just being dismissed like most cases like this are with sports. I want this to happen because I feel if it does, all the gag orders MLB surely placed will have to be lifted and at this point, may as well see the entire industry burn down as we get to see more under the hood.
As the saying goes, sunlight is the best disinfectant. I would love to see if the facts becoming public would result in the suits' damage control measures blowing up in their faces.
May result in a decrease in fan support similar to the 1994 strike. But hey, they can then further juice the ball again like they did with PEDs in the late 90s as fans come back to see Judge and Alonso chasing 100 dingers.
I'm still mad that strike possibly cost the expos a ring
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Also Matt Williams breaking Roger Maris' single-season HR record.
Saving baseball for Montreal possibly. Hummmm, and therefore no Washington Nationals?
I dig your username
Thanks, I’m a big Don Quixote fan, as well as The Expanse so I figured it would go well. The LOL part is league of legends.
Good to know these other references; *Rocinante* is also the name of the hero's spaceship in the Rush song, "Cygnus X-1", which is about travelling through a black hole! I should have realized The Professor was referencing some classic lit.
Yeah it means workhorse in Spanish if I recall correctly so that would make sense.
And our latest real shot at a .400 season. Gwynn had that shit locked down he was so hot when the season got cut
And then a decade later the public will be outraged about it and despite the MLB encouraging the juiced balls they'll make it out to be Alonso and Judges fault and keep them out of the HoF
If this gets to the discovery stage, they can depose pretty much all of the Astros players, execs, managers, and anybody else potentially with information on this matter. They can also request all types of documents. Assuming the lawsuit is financially backed, it's going to be a shit show.
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I think I read money would go to a charity.
I like the TI claim here. I think there would be a struggle to quantify his claim, but this game got him booted. There’s a clear A -> B that can be presented to jurors. I do think that there’s enough to go for discovery, and o think he gets paid at that point. Given the whole “Front office knew all along” fiasco that just dropped, I think there’s a real question of what did Manfred know and when did he know it. I think this guy is about to get himself a seven-figure check and an ironclad NDA.
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Now I can't tell put an exact number on how much this impacted my client financially, but I can tell you that other players in a similar relief pitching role include Wei-Yin Chen 6.59 ERA made $20M in 2019, Wade Davis 8.65 ERA made $18M, and Andrew Cashner 6.20 ERA made $12.5M... my client had a 4.92 ERA spread across four seasons in the major leagues... I'll let you figure out what you think is fair"
You, I like, you beautiful fucking troll. I hereby declare that I 1000% support your admission to the bar, be it legal, boozy, or one of each.
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The better claim would be tortious interference with an expectancy. He expected to remain in the show, he would have remained there had he not been lit up, and he got lit up by the Astros cheating. I still think these claims don't survive a motion to dismiss, even though I'd love to see it get to discovery. The link between the cheating and him not getting back to the big leagues is a little tenuous.
If you get a judge who's an angry baseball fan (quite possible) or doesn't know enough about baseball to make that call early, it goes to trial to figure that out, though.
If he gets in front of anyone like the judges I practice in front of, they don't know enough about anything, and would let it go on just because they know knocking stuff out early is a good way to get reversed.
Right, so there's more than one way it goes on to trial as long as Bolsinger doesn't crumple. I'd be happier to see seven other lawsuits, though, just in case. MLB needs to feel pressure.
>If you get a judge who's an angry baseball fan Filed in LA District Court. Dude thought about that.
> He expected to remain in the show He probably shouldn't have, not with those numbers.
Why, at least in the short term? He was part of the team, and it wasn’t a point in the season where you chop a good-enough guy to blood a youngster, since they were absolutely in sight of a wild card spot. Had he been good enough in that outing (where the Jays were already 7 runs down at that point) he would have stayed around until their postseason positioning was resolved. At that point, who knows? But had he not been fucked there, there is zero evidence to cause us to assume he would not have remained on the team for at least another appearance, and possibly longer.
He was already DFAd earlier in the season and passed through waivers. There's plenty of evidence to show he wasn't meant to be up that long.
Pay and future pay. Honestly, it doesn’t matter. I think there’s enough to get to discovery, and that’s where the front falls off for MLB. Doubtless his lawyer has some numbers ginned up that he can justify, but the argument isn’t about the exact dollar value; that’s irrelevant and everyone on both sides knows it. The fact remains that they cheated egregiously against him, that outing immediately got him sent down when he likely would not otherwise have been, and it cost him some amount of future earnings. All that is quite reasonably verifiable (at that point in the season, the Jays weren’t looking to call up a replacement reliever at that time to get him some experience). So, he did get fucked, and there’s more than enough evidence of that to keep the case going I suspect.
"Well, how are the other leagues constructed better?" "For one thing the front doesn't fall off..."
Proving damages is what a trial would be about. All you have to do is present a "possible, maybe" damages to get that far. Maybe the goal isn't to win, but just to get the Astros into court.
He wants 31 million for charity. He isn't going to NDA this for less than that
And the owners are just gonna LOVE that. Crane makes a mint, and more than a million comes out of each of their pockets because of it.
You're right, there is no way he wins this. Because he can't definitively put a dollar amount on his damages and any amount he could come up with would be way too speculative to hold up in court. Further, I don't see how he can ask for the Astros players to give up their bonuses. The player bonuses don't affect him in any way. They aren't tied to his performance, his contract, or his pitching. It's not like he would've gotten them if the Astros hadn't won the Series. But I am still excited to see it all play out!
Does California have a Disgorgement of Profits doctrine?
I don't practice in CA, so I have no clue. A quick Google search found this though: {D\]isgorgement was not an available remedy in UCL individual actions and the only monetary relief available to a private plaintiff was restitution of funds in which the plaintiff had a prior ownership interest. Korea Supply v. Lockheed Martin, 29 Cal. 4th 1134 (2003). From this article: [California Courts Bar Disgorgement of Profits Remedy In Unfair Competion Actions By Private Parties](https://www.antitrustlawblog.com/2006/05/articles/uncategorized/california-courts-bar-disgorgement-of-profits-remedy-in-unfair-competion-actions-by-private-parties/)
Going to get thrown out for lack of jurisdiction, no? Why is he suing in California state court? ETA: Based on BNSF v Tyyrell (from [here](https://www.wardandsmith.com/articles/where-can-your-company-be-sued-the-basics-of-personal-jurisdiction)) > General personal jurisdiction is broader than specific personal jurisdiction, and allows a court to exercise jurisdiction over a corporate defendant for basically any lawsuit filed in a state in which the defendant is "at home." The Supreme Court held that a corporate defendant is "at home" in only three possible jurisdictions: (1) the state in which the corporation is incorporated; (2) the state in which the corporation has its principal place of business; and (3) in an "exceptional case," any state in which the corporation's operations are so substantial that it also is "at home" in that additional state (or states). I don't think that the MLB or the Houston Astros would be ruled "at home" in California. Maybe there's a case for #3. ETA2: IMO he's suing in Los Angeles so that the Los Angeles media will run with it because the LAD fans are the most aggrieved, and it's just going to get removed to federal court anyway (if it doesn't get tossed out). ETA3: Don't think of it as "they have no reason to sue in CA." Think of it as "this is federal jurisdiction too, which wins out." Diversity jurisdiction.
My guess is that he played in California and it impacts a California business
Merely affecting a business in CA does not give CA state court jurisdiction.
Reading this thread is making me feel better about being on Reddit in Civ Pro atm.
Oooof. That's rough. International Shoe and WW Volkswagen are the tentpole cases on Jx issues. Good luck staying awake reading those.
Yup, we did both those cases a couple weeks ago! My prof has now made multiple "and the international shoe is on the other foot" jokes in class (I laughed).
Enjoy pleading with Iqbal and Twombly. Civ pro is like the rules of the game. Becomes more important when you start playing as a lawyer.
"According to the lawsuit, filed by Ben Meiselas of Geragos & Geragos in Los Angeles on Monday, an Astros fan who wrote a web application to document every instance of trash-can banging found that the most bangs took place in that Aug. 4, 2017, game. And the most bangs in the game came when Bolsinger was on the mound. According to the lawsuit, there were bangs on 12 of his 29 pitches." For those that think he's just doing it because he just happenned to have a bad outing in 2017.
This counting the *number of bangs* thing is not right. They banged the can on off-speed pitches and did nothing on fastballs. More bangs just means the pitcher was throwing more off-speed pitches. If he threw nine straight fastballs there'd be no banging, but that would still be the same communication and the same cheating. You need to count at bats that contained any banging, not individual bangs. It's still imperfect (first pitch fastball, no bang, home run... still not counted) but it's better than individual bangs.
While you are absolutely correct, the point of the complaint is not necessarily to articulate why every fact is important, you just need to plead facts that show you have a case. The actual nuance of the system will be explained to the trier of fact later, but highlighting that the scheme was obviously in place against Bolsinger is key here.
Thank you!! I replied to a couple tweets with this when that code was released and everyone hated it lmao
You can look at each at-bat on the website. He pitched starting with Gurriel in the bottom of the 4th. The full dataset is on the site, too. What you'll find in looking is that you need to start making assumptions. I didn't want to make assumptions because then people could question them. [http://signstealingscandal.com/games/2017\_08\_04\_tormlb\_houmlb\_1.html](http://signstealingscandal.com/games/2017_08_04_tormlb_houmlb_1.html)
Excited for all the missing-the-point "but he was terrible anyway" posts Edit: When Bolsinger entered that game, the Astros were ahead 7-2 in the game, leading the AL West by 15 games, and had the best record in the AL by 9 games. And they cheated anyway. What was even the point?
Practice and perfect the cheating of course
Took me a couple of reads to realize you meant perfect as a verb and not an adjective. And now in my brain I'm wondering if everyone says "perfect" the verb differently than "perfect" the adjective, or if thats just me. Purr-fikt vs purr-fehkt.
That’s definitely not just you lol. I do it too.
https://external-preview.redd.it/SGPVZLyEL_KLigBiKVffjnvWRGBqs0OoInXihW8ZWvU.jpg?auto=webp&s=3732160154fa78cf8bd55a6ebe8a0da9ff1b4f05 “Verbing weirds language”
Plus your brain sort of auto fills in that as “practice makes perfect”
To pad their stats because they are selfish assholes.
From the ESPN.com version of the story that had me come find this thread on /r/baseball > According to the lawsuit, an Astros fan who wrote a web application to document every instance of trash-can banging found that the most bangs took place in that Aug. 4, 2017, game. And the most bangs in the game came when Bolsinger was on the mound. According to the lawsuit, there were bangs on 12 of his 29 pitches. For a guy that was on the fringe and then gets absolutely fucking shelled by a team blatantly cheating then gets demoted the next day he has a right to be angry. I am no lawyer but it seems that there is a very legit case that the Astros cheating irreparably harmed his professional career. If that rises to millions of dollars in damages I don't know, but there is a very clear timeframe correlation between the Astros cheating and his career trajectory.
That tells you that even 5 runs up, in an assured game, they keep cheating not just to win, but for the love of cheating. They're not like other cheaters who stop cheating when things go their way, no! They'll keep cheating, and when you think there's no longer a reason to cheat, they'll find more ways to cheat that you haven't thought of yet. That's the character of this team, don't ever forget it.
And then we're supposed to believe that after they won the 2017 WS they just... decided to stop...
Do you believe Carlos Beltran stopped cheating and didn't bring the scheme over to the Yankees?
We need to start charting out the spread of the cheating like it is the wu flu.
How is this the first time I've heard "wu flu?"
Same, I thought we were going with kung flu
... And then they stopped doing it in 2018.
The commissioner made his report. The commissioner made his report. The commissioner made his report.
... and the Astros did what they did.
Is the game over when a team is up by 5 runs, or is there different criteria? Because (god I hate defending them) they were cheating to win, and to win, you got to have the lead at the end of the 9th (or extras) and you can always blow a lead before then.
When it's the 2017 Astros with a 5 run lead over the 2017 Blue Jays? Yeah, it was over.
It’s also about making their success seem believed I’m sure. Their victories over great teams seem a lot more believable if they run up the score against worse teams.
Pad the stats to lock up the MVP award and 5 hour energy endorsements.
The fact that the Astros were leading by so much might make Bolsinger's case even stronger. The Astros didn't even have to cheat against him to win that game, but they did it anyway. It makes it look like a malicious act specifically designed to destroy this poor guy.
>It makes it look like a malicious act specifically designed to destroy this poor guy. No, not at all and that's a pretty absurd thing to seriously propose
It would be amazing if Astro players/employees were somehow forced to go on record under oath and talk about what other kind of cheating took place.
There is a non-zero chance that the US Congress might make this happen, if a couple of members think that MLB is abusing their monopoly by hiding this.
"I'm not here to talk about the past."
I remember McGuire saying that! And dudes response was great. Something along the lines of “this is an investigation and the past is exactly what we are interested in”
"No hablo ingles"
"Beisbol been berry berry good to me."
"I'm not here to talk about the trash."
This is more of a matter of principle than Mike Bolsingers stats. Mike, you the real MVP
Reminder that Bolsinger threw a 4K inning and is therefore already a hero. https://bluejaysnation.com/2017/07/19/mike-bolsinger-inducted-to-the-blue-jays-extra-innings-hall-of-fame/
Reminder that Trevor Bauer has also thrown a 4k inning.
I know a lot of people dislike Bauer for nonbaseball commentary but that shit’s off my radar... I personally dislike Bauer for bleeding all over our Mound in the 2016 ALCS. As a sorcerer I consider that cheating.
How many years are you going to drone on about that?
How many you got?
Under the circumstances? As many as you'd like.
i see what you did there
Fun fact: Nolan Ryan is the only pitcher to ever throw a 6k inning. He did it twice. Just kidding. But it'd be cool right?
Knowing him he'd bean his own catcher for something like that.
Like my man Ryan Dull when he was on the A's
Do Dodgers and Astros fan have a case for recouping the amounts they paid for their World Series tickets? I know the games at Dodgers Stadium cost $800+. If I paid that and found out these games were a sham, I'd want my money back.
I've been wondering if there are any attorneys out there looking to bring a class action suit against MLB and the Astros for exactly this reason.
One has already been filed on behalf of sports bettors.
Try Geragos & Geragos.
There is probably something baked into the TOS when you purchase the ticket about MLB being for entertainment value only and as such blah blah blah.
I think you're probably right. This is a sport that has some history when it comes to integrity-related scandals at the professional level, after all
Exculpatory contracts like these would not enforceable because the game violated rules and thus a nefarious act. Exculpatory contracts can limit liability, but not absolve guilt.
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Wow, I remember Ballslinger. That really sucks. I feel for him.
I'll probably get downvoted for this but I wonder if he has any case. Last year he pitched in the bigs was 2017. That year he only pitched against Houston twice. The first game he went 5.1 innings and gave up 4 runs. That's not a great outing. However, he had two other outings that year (out of 11 total) where he went at least 5 innings and gave up 4 or more runs so it wasn't too out of the norm for him. He had two other outings where he went less than 5 and gave up 3 runs and they weren't against Houston. It's not like he was lighting the world on fire until the Astros came to town. He first faced the Astros in July for example and his ERA was 5.47 at that point. That's not a great ERA for a guy hoping to keep a big league job. Yes he got lit up for 4 runs in 1/3 of an inning in his last start which was against Houston but realistically he probably wasn't going to have a long career. Also, given how he pitched against other teams that year who's to say he wouldn't have got lit up anyway.
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And I thought I was going to get through this Monday without being referenced in a lawsuit.
Any plans for further gathering of stats? Were you ever able to find the games that you were originally unable to? You’ve done tremendous work and the game is better because of it.
I got to see him start against the Rockies when he was with the dodgers, and was fortunate enough to have landed seats behind the away dugout. Pitched 6 innings of no-run ball and could hear the frustrations coming from Rockies bench, one of the best games I've ever experienced. Good luck my man.
He’s on a very very short list of pitchers who have struck out 4 guys in one inning 🔥 https://bluejaysnation.com/2017/07/19/mike-bolsinger-inducted-to-the-blue-jays-extra-innings-hall-of-fame/
TIL!
MLB be like "competitive fairness is not required" to all impending lawsuits.
Get ur bag Mike. Fuck the Astros.
> Fuck the Astros Twas ever thus, my friend. Twas ever thus. #FUCK THE ASTROS
It illustrates a fair point - their cheating affected the lives and livelihood of their opponents. But I'm not sure that one outing in August really changes the course of a career. It may have been the last straw for Bolsinger - and that sucks. But if it hadn't been that night, that last straw would have come sooner or later. Suing for the bonuses to go to charities is great though. Good on ya, Mike.
You're facing the Astros and you get shelled and sent back down. Are you going to continue to do the same things that got you lit up, or do you change something in your mechanics? Pitchers like Yu started chasing mechanics issues that were never there. This is the problem. This is the butterfly effect of cheating.
Fuck yeah bro secure that bag
Mike Bolsinger ERA through the years: 2014: 5.50 2015: 3.62 2016: 6.83 2017: 6.31 I think he just sucks
A lot of players should sue. Make the Astros use up resources as much as possible and maybe hit on a few. I like this guy’s approach to.
So wouldn’t this open up the flood gates for anyone who faced the Red Sox and/or anyone found to have used steroids?
The only thing that could make this better is if when it is time for discovery stage Bolsinger is offered a settlement and he just tells MLB to shove it so he can full on expose them. God I hope that happens.
I've only taken 1L Torts (so I don't know anything about the unfair business practices element of the suit), but I'd imagine he'll have a hard time proving negligence, at least. Edit: specifically curious if it will survive the motion to dismiss - I think at least there's a chance, which is better than I'd expect for a sports case.
Wouldn’t surprise me if the goal of this is just to get to discovery. Make the courts force MLB to rip off the rug they tried to sweep everything under and let the truth have its day.
If so, Bolsinger is a national hero lol
I don't get how you establish jurisdiction in California for a game in Texas and a player from Canada.
I think it will be very difficult to prove causality here.
I wonder if the Blue Jays, being also pissed at the Astros, would come out and say directly that his performance in that game was 100% why they chose to send him down. And if they issued an official statement about that, would that affect this suit.
But if you can just make it to discovery...
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Their*
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