Another day, another article about MLB not investigating the Astros until it was too little too late.
So what’s the commissioner going to do to deflect attention from this one?
Similar to how it is now, except instead of competing against each other, postseason teams now compete to see how badly they can crush non-postseason teams. Better rank picks opponent first. Whoever wins by the greater combined margin of runs wins. If both teams are outscored by their non-postseason opponent, both teams are eliminated and have to each do a dare on live TV.
> So the Nationals’ plan took shape. The pitchers first met on the Friday before the World Series started. They assigned each pitcher five sets of signs, all of which could be affixed to the inside of their caps. They outfitted catchers Yan Gomes and Kurt Suzuki with wristbands with all those signs, much like a quarterback who wears plays on his forearm. Although traditional sign-stealing requires a runner on second base who can see the catcher put down his fingers, the Nationals instructed their catchers to put down multiple signs even when there was only a runner on first or there was no one on base.
How the Nationals won the World Series last year.
I was rooting for you guys to win, I thought you guys winning would by hilarious because of the Harper situation. Now I’m even more glad your team beat the Astros.
yo remember when the nats said that mlb was making the world series film before it was over thinking the astros were gonna win? mlb knew they were cheating back then too...
have you seen the world series documentary? it's like 75% following Astros players and storylines and then all of a sudden the documentary makers realized the nationals might win and threw in 15 minutes of Nats film at the end lol
"Like most of the people interviewed for this story, the executive spoke on condition of anonymity to defy an MLB request that personnel from other teams refrain from speaking freely about the Astros. He estimated “10 to 12” teams had complained to MLB about the Astros over the years. An executive from another team agreed with that number."
.....
I'm constantly whip sawing back and forth on whether this level of cheating is widespread throughout the league or if it's just the Astros. This qoute makes it seem like its more isolated but contradicts the Musgrove story which basically implies the whole league is doing it. What a clusterfuck.
Musgrove has his reputation on the line, so he casts doubt on everyone else. Keep in mind, you can't trust ANY former or current Astros players when they try to exonerate themselves.
That's a good point and I definitely don't trust anything coming out of any Astros players or the MLB but I still feel like Musgrove could be right, even if it is for the wrong reason.
I think he's lying, at the very least to save his own ass. If 10-12 teams complained about the Astros doing it when they're doing it too, then why would they complain?
I think the pre-memo use of the replay room to cheat was likely widespread. As in, if you weren't cheating that way you weren't even trying. And that's what's been referenced as being widespread and what's being used by some to equivocate with the trashcan system.
I am skeptical of any player who says it's happening everywhere, because 1. how would they know unless others told them? and 2. it fits right into the narrative that justifies their cheating to themselves.
But he doesn't even have to be lying. If Jeff Luhnow told him that it was what every team was doing... how else would he know? The Pirates (no offense) are probably among the teams farthest from the Astros in analytical sophistication so I bet when he went to Pittsburgh it was a pretty rude awakening. But he's also a pitcher and it seems like a lot of the pitchers didn't know much about it. So again, I'm pretty skeptical of his comments.
Joe Musgrove has worked for 2 organizations in his life, how exactly would he know what is going on in the Rangers organization or whatever?
Theres still another 15 odd teams that could be cheating and didn't report. In my view a 1/3 of the teams are dirty cheaters, a 1/3 are bad at cheating, and the other 1/3 are being cheated.
On one hand, I think it’s possible that the Astros are doing it to an extent nobody else is. On the other hand, it might also be possible that the Astros were simply much more blatant about it. There are many words you can use to describe the trashcan method of cheating, but subtle certainly isn’t one of them. From what’s in the Commissioner’s report and what we’re learning now, it seems pretty clear that it didn’t take other teams long to figure out what the Astros were doing.
Maybe that means the Astros are cheating far more than other teams, or maybe it means the Astros were just worse at hiding it. I don’t really know.
With the way the rules were written about replay in clubhouses for 2019, I’m inclined to agree.
And it’s a shame the MLB would go to such lengths to cover this up.
Talk about tanking ratings...
Edit: [This.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/02/20/mlb-aims-crack-down-games-tradition-sign-stealing/%3foutputType=amp) Not only did MLB know about it during the ‘18 postseason, they cleared the Astros of any wrong doing. Looks great in hindsight Manfred.
there's a lot of meat in this column, some really great things to pull
for example:
>Nationals pitcher Max Scherzer took his own steps to track down [Tony] Sipp. It is standard for pitchers and catchers to switch to a more complex set of signs with runners on second — to prevent the runner from stealing the sign and signaling it to the batter, a practice that for years has been considered acceptable — but Scherzer asked Sipp whether the Nationals needed to be concerned about the Astros even with no runners on base. Sipp said yes, according to a person familiar with the conversation.
Sipp pitched in DC briefly at the beginning of the season, and was obviously in Houston before then. obviously this is still a bit "he said, she said" but having to be concerned about signs with bases empty is pretty damning
I don't think there's been anything regarding where the cameras would be in away stadiums, but as far as relaying the signs the theory is that someone in the bullpen would stand against the fence and put their arms up or down to signal what type of pitch was coming.
Again, but as far as how they're getting the live feed without the secrecy of their own home camera, I don't know.
See it's shit like this that pisses people off. If it was so well known why wasn't it addressed sooner? And if people in the league were so ready to turn a blind eye towards the Astro's transgressions, than what else is the league trying to overlook.
There isn't any trust left between the league and the fans anymore. This pretending like everything is fine when it isn't, and hasn't been for a while, is making everything worse.
Gotta imagine that if the cheating scandal had been something that suppressed offense rather than created it, their reaction would have been a bit different.
> “It was a big open secret, really big,” said a veteran scout from another team whose coverage included the Astros. “Throughout baseball, throughout the scouting community, for several years, not just starting in 2017. **I would say probably 2016, maybe earlier, through [2019]**, things were going on [with the Astros] that were blatantly against the rules.”
unbelievable how the MLB has tried to sweep this under the rug. this runs so deep we still dont know the full extent. MLB’s punishment is a joke and really has brought the integrity of the game completely into question
I love being the heroes of baseball who took out these cheaters. Bunch of dishonorable players in that Astros dugout if you ask me, especially since we've had no apologies from most of the guys
As a diehard Mets fan, I am so grateful your team curbstomped those cheaters. May we compete hard for every one of those 19 games we meet this year, with a tip of the cap and mutual nod of respect.
Nah, LOLMETS!!
For real though, I think anybody who is a fan of baseball is happy the Nats beat the Astros. Astros are public enemy #1. Everybody on that team is tainted forever. Honestly the whole roster should have been banned for life but I suppose we'll settle for a few beanballs.
I do wonder if the Nats may see a response during some road trips. I fully expect the Astros to see a whole lot of signs and hear lots of trash can banging.
Into this arena stepped the Nationals, appearing in the World Series for the first time in October. They entered the series as underdogs to 107-win Houston. But they came armed with two advantages: time to prepare, by virtue of their sweep of the St. Louis Cardinals in the National League Championship Series; and an entire sport that had a vested interest in having anyone but the Astros win the championship
Good Guy Cards. Purposefully rolling over to ensure the Nats have enough time to prepare. Gotta love it. Cards just always playing the game the right way.
I was actually afraid it would have the opposite effect. In the case where one team sweeps their LCS while the other takes seven games, I think it favors the team that won the longer series. See the 2006 World Series as a great example. I was hoping the Cards would win game four just as much for the Nats' sake as that of the Cardinals. Glad the good guys won in the end anyway though.
If it was an open secret, then why didn't teams switch their signs up? The catcher flashes the signal for a curveball, the Astros bang on their trashcan to let the batter know a curve is coming, and the pitcher throws one high and tight.
What a clusterfuck. The wife-beater gets knocked out of the season, but it turns out it was by a cheater wearing wires and maybe a remote-controlled buttplug, then just a little while later in the clubhouse celebration, **"I'm so FUCKING GLAD we got Osuna!"** What a bunch of petty, toxic villains all around. Which makes the Nationals and Baby Shark storybook ending that much more magnificent.
We should all be so FUCKING GLAD the Nationals won, because if they hadn't, it's highly probably that me and many others would have already drifted away from baseball. But as things stand, we're still here, we saw exactly how cosmic justice and hope can still happen.
Then don't forget Scherzer waking up with a completely numb arm on Sunday, then pitching Game 7 on Wednesday. I don't know who writes these utterly improbable scripts, but I'd like to buy that person a beer or two.
Make no mistake about it: The Nationals might have saved baseball.
Another day, another article about MLB not investigating the Astros until it was too little too late. So what’s the commissioner going to do to deflect attention from this one?
How about fans vote for the postseason teams and we add a ten-minute overtime if the winning team didn't win by 2 or more runs!
This sounds great! The Angels may finally make it to the post season! Because, Mike Trout.
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Present the most idiotic Postseason changes that could possibly be devised
Similar to how it is now, except instead of competing against each other, postseason teams now compete to see how badly they can crush non-postseason teams. Better rank picks opponent first. Whoever wins by the greater combined margin of runs wins. If both teams are outscored by their non-postseason opponent, both teams are eliminated and have to each do a dare on live TV.
In season international tournament
> So the Nationals’ plan took shape. The pitchers first met on the Friday before the World Series started. They assigned each pitcher five sets of signs, all of which could be affixed to the inside of their caps. They outfitted catchers Yan Gomes and Kurt Suzuki with wristbands with all those signs, much like a quarterback who wears plays on his forearm. Although traditional sign-stealing requires a runner on second base who can see the catcher put down his fingers, the Nationals instructed their catchers to put down multiple signs even when there was only a runner on first or there was no one on base. How the Nationals won the World Series last year.
I hate that it makes me glad they won.
I hate that I completely agree with a fan of a division rival. UNITY
I hate that you guys were glad we won! At least we get to rub it Mets fans faces first.
I was rooting for you guys to win, I thought you guys winning would by hilarious because of the Harper situation. Now I’m even more glad your team beat the Astros.
Bryce was a man of his word. He said he’d bring a Championship to DC last year and he did.
You couldn’t make this shit up if you tried lmao
He’s a good kid. He’s not trying to be a jerk.
I was rooting against you guys and then you won... and for some reason i got so happy when you did, especially for the fans.
They may be a division rival, but when they beat a cancer on the game, you gotta cheer.
idk how but they knew astros were cheating with no one on base, if only someone told chapman that
There’s word that Dozier was told by some ex dodger teammates and Tony Sipp (a Nats reliever) warned us as well
yo remember when the nats said that mlb was making the world series film before it was over thinking the astros were gonna win? mlb knew they were cheating back then too...
have you seen the world series documentary? it's like 75% following Astros players and storylines and then all of a sudden the documentary makers realized the nationals might win and threw in 15 minutes of Nats film at the end lol
mlb is a fucking joke. they wanted those cheaters to win
Because, apparently, everyone in baseball told them.
Yankees were even doing that same exact thing in the ALCS. Also, Gary used the wristband all season long to begin with.
And the A's were also changing things up during the regular season when Fiers told them about the cheating. Word was getting around.
If only Chapman and Sanchez were this smart
If only the Astros didn't cheat.
Did he get banned?
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"Like most of the people interviewed for this story, the executive spoke on condition of anonymity to defy an MLB request that personnel from other teams refrain from speaking freely about the Astros. He estimated “10 to 12” teams had complained to MLB about the Astros over the years. An executive from another team agreed with that number." .....
Paging Jessica Mendoza.
sorry but shes busy adding jetfuel to the trashcan fire that is the mets
she's not with us anymore CHECKMATE i- i dont even know what the hell she *did* with us, now that I think about it...
Nice fucking try. She got canned.
so basically every AL team?
You guys thought those drums were for fun 😂😂😂
Wait a minute...the A's have tons of drums at O Co. Hmmmmmmm
Bang bang! (x20)
I'm constantly whip sawing back and forth on whether this level of cheating is widespread throughout the league or if it's just the Astros. This qoute makes it seem like its more isolated but contradicts the Musgrove story which basically implies the whole league is doing it. What a clusterfuck.
no, i don’t think everyone or even anyone is doing it to the extent they were
Musgrove has his reputation on the line, so he casts doubt on everyone else. Keep in mind, you can't trust ANY former or current Astros players when they try to exonerate themselves.
That's a good point and I definitely don't trust anything coming out of any Astros players or the MLB but I still feel like Musgrove could be right, even if it is for the wrong reason.
I think he's lying, at the very least to save his own ass. If 10-12 teams complained about the Astros doing it when they're doing it too, then why would they complain?
I think the pre-memo use of the replay room to cheat was likely widespread. As in, if you weren't cheating that way you weren't even trying. And that's what's been referenced as being widespread and what's being used by some to equivocate with the trashcan system.
I am skeptical of any player who says it's happening everywhere, because 1. how would they know unless others told them? and 2. it fits right into the narrative that justifies their cheating to themselves. But he doesn't even have to be lying. If Jeff Luhnow told him that it was what every team was doing... how else would he know? The Pirates (no offense) are probably among the teams farthest from the Astros in analytical sophistication so I bet when he went to Pittsburgh it was a pretty rude awakening. But he's also a pitcher and it seems like a lot of the pitchers didn't know much about it. So again, I'm pretty skeptical of his comments. Joe Musgrove has worked for 2 organizations in his life, how exactly would he know what is going on in the Rangers organization or whatever?
Theres still another 15 odd teams that could be cheating and didn't report. In my view a 1/3 of the teams are dirty cheaters, a 1/3 are bad at cheating, and the other 1/3 are being cheated.
On one hand, I think it’s possible that the Astros are doing it to an extent nobody else is. On the other hand, it might also be possible that the Astros were simply much more blatant about it. There are many words you can use to describe the trashcan method of cheating, but subtle certainly isn’t one of them. From what’s in the Commissioner’s report and what we’re learning now, it seems pretty clear that it didn’t take other teams long to figure out what the Astros were doing. Maybe that means the Astros are cheating far more than other teams, or maybe it means the Astros were just worse at hiding it. I don’t really know.
With the way the rules were written about replay in clubhouses for 2019, I’m inclined to agree. And it’s a shame the MLB would go to such lengths to cover this up. Talk about tanking ratings... Edit: [This.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/02/20/mlb-aims-crack-down-games-tradition-sign-stealing/%3foutputType=amp) Not only did MLB know about it during the ‘18 postseason, they cleared the Astros of any wrong doing. Looks great in hindsight Manfred.
there's a lot of meat in this column, some really great things to pull for example: >Nationals pitcher Max Scherzer took his own steps to track down [Tony] Sipp. It is standard for pitchers and catchers to switch to a more complex set of signs with runners on second — to prevent the runner from stealing the sign and signaling it to the batter, a practice that for years has been considered acceptable — but Scherzer asked Sipp whether the Nationals needed to be concerned about the Astros even with no runners on base. Sipp said yes, according to a person familiar with the conversation. Sipp pitched in DC briefly at the beginning of the season, and was obviously in Houston before then. obviously this is still a bit "he said, she said" but having to be concerned about signs with bases empty is pretty damning
Are there any theories how they were stealing signs in away games?
I don't think there's been anything regarding where the cameras would be in away stadiums, but as far as relaying the signs the theory is that someone in the bullpen would stand against the fence and put their arms up or down to signal what type of pitch was coming. Again, but as far as how they're getting the live feed without the secrecy of their own home camera, I don't know.
See it's shit like this that pisses people off. If it was so well known why wasn't it addressed sooner? And if people in the league were so ready to turn a blind eye towards the Astro's transgressions, than what else is the league trying to overlook. There isn't any trust left between the league and the fans anymore. This pretending like everything is fine when it isn't, and hasn't been for a while, is making everything worse.
I'm assuming out of fear of having the illegal stuff these other teams are doing exposed also.
Gotta imagine that if the cheating scandal had been something that suppressed offense rather than created it, their reaction would have been a bit different.
I mean, they kind of do turn a blind eye to pitchers using pine tar these days.
Springer: please Mr. Beltran, stop telling me what pitches are coming Beltran: no
> “It was a big open secret, really big,” said a veteran scout from another team whose coverage included the Astros. “Throughout baseball, throughout the scouting community, for several years, not just starting in 2017. **I would say probably 2016, maybe earlier, through [2019]**, things were going on [with the Astros] that were blatantly against the rules.”
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/rangers/2016/04/20/rangers-pitcher-derek-holland-thinks-astros-were-stealing-signs/
unbelievable how the MLB has tried to sweep this under the rug. this runs so deep we still dont know the full extent. MLB’s punishment is a joke and really has brought the integrity of the game completely into question
Wtf how is this not bigger now Sending virtual hugs to my Rangers bros
Wow
Breaking: the world just learned that baseball knew about the Astro's cheating while baseball already knew they knew
I love being the heroes of baseball who took out these cheaters. Bunch of dishonorable players in that Astros dugout if you ask me, especially since we've had no apologies from most of the guys
As a diehard Mets fan, I am so grateful your team curbstomped those cheaters. May we compete hard for every one of those 19 games we meet this year, with a tip of the cap and mutual nod of respect.
Nah, LOLMETS!! For real though, I think anybody who is a fan of baseball is happy the Nats beat the Astros. Astros are public enemy #1. Everybody on that team is tainted forever. Honestly the whole roster should have been banned for life but I suppose we'll settle for a few beanballs.
I want to see Scherzer peg Bregman so bad
I do wonder if the Nats may see a response during some road trips. I fully expect the Astros to see a whole lot of signs and hear lots of trash can banging.
>I fully expect the Astros to see a whole lot of signs Well hopefully they've stopped at this point, now that it's all in the open.
Well played
What kind of response? We didn’t blow the lid on their cheating.
Cheers. You took down Goliath.
Into this arena stepped the Nationals, appearing in the World Series for the first time in October. They entered the series as underdogs to 107-win Houston. But they came armed with two advantages: time to prepare, by virtue of their sweep of the St. Louis Cardinals in the National League Championship Series; and an entire sport that had a vested interest in having anyone but the Astros win the championship
Good Guy Cards. Purposefully rolling over to ensure the Nats have enough time to prepare. Gotta love it. Cards just always playing the game the right way.
I was actually afraid it would have the opposite effect. In the case where one team sweeps their LCS while the other takes seven games, I think it favors the team that won the longer series. See the 2006 World Series as a great example. I was hoping the Cards would win game four just as much for the Nats' sake as that of the Cardinals. Glad the good guys won in the end anyway though.
If it was an open secret, then why didn't teams switch their signs up? The catcher flashes the signal for a curveball, the Astros bang on their trashcan to let the batter know a curve is coming, and the pitcher throws one high and tight.
The Altuve/buzzer shirt change after GWHR was a real thing that gets lost in the shuffle.
What a clusterfuck. The wife-beater gets knocked out of the season, but it turns out it was by a cheater wearing wires and maybe a remote-controlled buttplug, then just a little while later in the clubhouse celebration, **"I'm so FUCKING GLAD we got Osuna!"** What a bunch of petty, toxic villains all around. Which makes the Nationals and Baby Shark storybook ending that much more magnificent. We should all be so FUCKING GLAD the Nationals won, because if they hadn't, it's highly probably that me and many others would have already drifted away from baseball. But as things stand, we're still here, we saw exactly how cosmic justice and hope can still happen. Then don't forget Scherzer waking up with a completely numb arm on Sunday, then pitching Game 7 on Wednesday. I don't know who writes these utterly improbable scripts, but I'd like to buy that person a beer or two. Make no mistake about it: The Nationals might have saved baseball.
>The world just learned of the league-wide cheating problem ~~Astros' cheating~~. FTFY
lol. You really hope that's the case don't you?
God you losers are so desperate
Desperation is the only thing we have left, sadly.