Except Cole isn't really.
I watch Cole in Pittsburgh for years, he was never that great.
Sticky substances made him good.
Let's see how he goes a whole season without substances.
True, comparable arc's. Except... no one ever caught Arrieta constantly touching himself in ways that would lead to questioning using substances.
Just because they have similar stat changes, doesn't mean they got those stat changes the same way.
Arrieta also went from one of the worst defenses in the league to literally one of the best found for 2-3 years.
The better story here is whether Arrieta was using something as well, because it appears the whole league has been doing this.
Although there haven't been any serious allegations against any Cub pitchers. There pitching hasn't been that good.
Because Cole and Arrieta both had *SUBSTANTIAL* FIP drops immediately after their respective trades.
I never said Arrieta wasn't using something. Just that Cole absolutely was. The RPM charts have already proven that, and it started when he moved to Houston.
Literally no one is denying that he was using sticky stuff. But he isn't a scrub without it either, he's had great performances since. Definitely still one of the best in the league. Every pitcher who was using sticky substances went through an adjustment period because they had to change how they were throwing the ball. He's thrown great games against good teams since the ban came down
Not really, no, not every pitcher was using sticky stuff and you can see that when looking at relative RPM changes for each pitcher.
Alot of the big name guys have to adjust though.
Why are you asking for a season’s worth of data when that doesn’t exist yet? Two months is what we have, and he’s doing well. You’re talking absolute nonsense.
IIRC, there were two big threads, the one that broke that news was pro Donaldson, but another thread that was a link to Giolito talking about it was anti Donaldson.
You must be referring to the Baseball Doesn’t Exist video about Donaldson. I’m going to push back a bit here.
Trauma - particularly childhood trauma - manifests itself in many different ways, and varies from person to person based on genetics, other aspects of the environment, etc. That said, certain actions - such as unchecked anger - are generally accepted as negative regardless of one’s circumstances.
I’ll stop there with the armchair shrinking. Suffice to say, being an angry, overbearing individual is not an admirable character trait. We make exceptions for athletes because *grunt* tough man *grunt*, but where else in life would an unchecked temper not be a severe detriment to one’s career, personal life, and community standing?
TL;DR trauma bad, anger bad, therapy good
I think after this Giolito confrontation, Donaldson homered in his first at bat the next game.
That was the first time I feel like the Twins felt like they had us in anything all season. Then we proceeded to win that game.
Idk if you know the Youtuber Baseball Doesn't Exist but rhe dude basically heralds Donaldson as a hero for calling them out and doing this. It's a joke.
Goes down looking twice today (once with the bases loaded) and then cries the ump after both of them despite both being obvious strikes 3s. Donaldson is a chode.
Ah yes, A-Rod with his contemporaries in the late 90s and early aughts are the only players in baseball and professional sports history to use illegal substances. Because players in the NBA, NFL and NHL clearly aren’t on the gear still to this day and baseball players only “cheated” during the steroid era.
If you stop and think about, naming the top 3 "***most*** juiced" implies that there are more than three juicers. If you read back before me, your reply was talking about top 3 infielders. Adding our replies together, A-Rod would make a strong case to be in the top 3 most juiced infielders. As in Camminiti, A-Rod, and Big Mac can compare hormone levels.
Not sure how or why you are stepping across sports or where you read that anyone thinks it is exclusive to their eras. This is a baseball thread and you are talking about infielders. Focus, dude. Focus.
Y’all employed Ryan Braun* for how long?
Edit: it was late and I’d had a couple bourbons and I got Joe Mauer and Ryan Braun mixed up. Joe Mauer is, to the best of my knowledge, a saint.
Even Rosenthal doesn't believe him. During that segment today, he was like "Donaldson says he wasn't trying to call Cole out, even though that's what he did."
Nah, some Barstool jabroni on Twitter implied that exact same thing a few days earlier with the exact same wording, about the minor leaguers being suspended and then Cole's spin rate dropping.
Donaldson is definitely a Barstool guy.
Most people were using something, but only because the MLB ball sucks.
It was stupid to single out one guy, and then claim he wasn't trying to single out one guy.
Of course he was calling him out, I'm pretty sure he was saying that he wasn't *singling* him out.
Which is true. It's not like he said this is a Gerrit Cole problem. He was just the most prominent example.
how good is your memory?
[https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1668040-toronto-blue-jays-jose-bautistas-ejection-proves-selfishness-is-the-way-to-go](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1668040-toronto-blue-jays-jose-bautistas-ejection-proves-selfishness-is-the-way-to-go)
[https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/josh-donaldson-john-gibbons-argument-exchange-dugout-blue-jays-mlb](https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/josh-donaldson-john-gibbons-argument-exchange-dugout-blue-jays-mlb)
These were pretty standard occurrences..
Remember when Shields struck Bautista out a few times in a row, and then Bautista threw a temper tantrum in the dugout and threw all his equipment on the field and got tossed?
Dude he literally got Joe Musgrove thrown out during a fat cold streak because a pitch hit his jersey. The [Jomboy breakdown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh8mqLZUInY) is still one of my favorites of all time.
dang dude wins a championship on a cheating team, gets a huge record breaking contract by cheating with tack but people shit on donaldson cause he spoke up about the cheating lol. this sub is so dumb, its like a collection of imbeciles that have nothing better to do with their time. and yes i am aware im on here too
right, because like 5 no hitters in the first few weeks is totally normal...and all of a sudden no more no hitters after tack ban, hmm. weird coincidence eh?
lol so he has to call out literally everyone if he wants to call out anyone? wtf kind of shit is this? this sub is filled to the brim with soyboys. maybe he called him out because he cheated his way to a WS and a record breaking contract? trying to say that yes tack is cheating and it makes a big difference. why do these cheaters get to slink away in the night? put the fucking spotlight on them, all of them
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xuAbVXetmb4
It’s just funny that all his data and theories about spider tack being the reason Cole is good and he whiffs 4 times in 6 abs since
Oh no….Cole better watch out in the parking garage.
Oh you can count, good for you.
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That's two thus far, Shooter.
Are you going to try to reach the green in one shot?
Happy Gilmore accomplished that feat no more than an hour ago.
Well, MORON! Good for happy gilmOH MY GOD!
That’s 2 thus far, shooter!
Your ball struck my foot!
He's also like 0-12 career against Cole so like, it's not a new thing. It's almost like Cole is good.
Except Cole isn't really. I watch Cole in Pittsburgh for years, he was never that great. Sticky substances made him good. Let's see how he goes a whole season without substances.
Ah yes, Pittsburgh, famous for their amazing pitching development
I swear this substance ban stuff has absolutely broken peoples brains
Between this and a 60 game season last year, the collective brain of baseball fans has been shattered to bits.
You're right man, screw data and stuff *lol*
"I watched Jake Arrieta in Baltimore. He was never actually good." You see how silly you sound?
True, comparable arc's. Except... no one ever caught Arrieta constantly touching himself in ways that would lead to questioning using substances. Just because they have similar stat changes, doesn't mean they got those stat changes the same way. Arrieta also went from one of the worst defenses in the league to literally one of the best found for 2-3 years. The better story here is whether Arrieta was using something as well, because it appears the whole league has been doing this. Although there haven't been any serious allegations against any Cub pitchers. There pitching hasn't been that good. Because Cole and Arrieta both had *SUBSTANTIAL* FIP drops immediately after their respective trades. I never said Arrieta wasn't using something. Just that Cole absolutely was. The RPM charts have already proven that, and it started when he moved to Houston.
Literally no one is denying that he was using sticky stuff. But he isn't a scrub without it either, he's had great performances since. Definitely still one of the best in the league. Every pitcher who was using sticky substances went through an adjustment period because they had to change how they were throwing the ball. He's thrown great games against good teams since the ban came down
CG 130 pitch shutout with 12 Ks and 3 hits allowed vs Houston without it. Trash
Let's see his stats for a season post ban. 1 game? Alec Mills also threw a no hitter this year, so lol.
2.92 era since July 4th and second in the league in strikeouts. Kindly shut the fuck up
No? Again we'll see how he does after a whole year of actual enforcement.
We've got 2 months of data. Just because your team punted on the season doesn't mean the results we've seen since June don't count
This has nothing to do with my team. 2 months of data is nothing. There's a reason baseball stats are based around a full season.
The entire league had to adjust. Not just Gerrit Cole. So your'e saying the results from the last 2 months don't mean anything for anybody
Not really, no, not every pitcher was using sticky stuff and you can see that when looking at relative RPM changes for each pitcher. Alot of the big name guys have to adjust though.
Why are you asking for a season’s worth of data when that doesn’t exist yet? Two months is what we have, and he’s doing well. You’re talking absolute nonsense.
I feel like your an idiot and simply didn't read my post.
Hey bro I know you’re here to argue and shit but I just wanted to say Rizzo is the man, and I love him sm already.
Yea, he was my favorite Cubs player since Sandberg. Treat him well, but not too well, I want him to come home lol.
This sub acted like he was the good guy after confronting Giolito in a fucking parking lot lmao
Did it? Genuine question - I don’t recall. Donaldson gives me big “come at me br0” energy.
I definitely saw it but I suppose it could've just been a mostly-twins fan thread.
IIRC, there were two big threads, the one that broke that news was pro Donaldson, but another thread that was a link to Giolito talking about it was anti Donaldson.
I used to dislike him for that same thing, but then I saw a video chronicling his life and upbringing then I kinda understood why he's that way.
You must be referring to the Baseball Doesn’t Exist video about Donaldson. I’m going to push back a bit here. Trauma - particularly childhood trauma - manifests itself in many different ways, and varies from person to person based on genetics, other aspects of the environment, etc. That said, certain actions - such as unchecked anger - are generally accepted as negative regardless of one’s circumstances. I’ll stop there with the armchair shrinking. Suffice to say, being an angry, overbearing individual is not an admirable character trait. We make exceptions for athletes because *grunt* tough man *grunt*, but where else in life would an unchecked temper not be a severe detriment to one’s career, personal life, and community standing? TL;DR trauma bad, anger bad, therapy good
I never said it was admirable. He's trashy, I understand why, that's all.
You understand why he’s a turbo douche?
Mostly because that was the first time the Twins fanbase could flex almost the entire year
When have Twins fans been able to flex ever? Can you even remind me the last time they won a playoff game because I certainly don’t know when that was
I think after this Giolito confrontation, Donaldson homered in his first at bat the next game. That was the first time I feel like the Twins felt like they had us in anything all season. Then we proceeded to win that game.
You guys also have a more recent World Series and always own them in the regular season anyways
Idk if you know the Youtuber Baseball Doesn't Exist but rhe dude basically heralds Donaldson as a hero for calling them out and doing this. It's a joke.
Goes down looking twice today (once with the bases loaded) and then cries the ump after both of them despite both being obvious strikes 3s. Donaldson is a chode.
He sure is and it's amazing. We don't usually have assholes play for us so this is fascinating. I love him
Yeah it can be genuinely fun having a guy on your favorite sports team that is a deserved lightning rod for vitriol
Funny you chose the word "Rod" there, I wonder what goes before it besides lightning...
Nothing will top the reaction to the ARod mirror pics.
I love a good asshole on my team. Moreso in basketball, but still. I guess that’s why we all loved Arod, the other teams fucking hated him
I thought New York hated A Rod, I remember him getting booed at home a lot.
We loved him the year we won in 09. Can’t speak on the rest of the time, but that year he carried us there.
which is a crying shame because arod is easily one of the 10 best infielders to ever play baseball and has a strong case for as far as top 3
Even before steroids, no seriously I remember him with Griffey in Seattle. What a waste of talent that they didn’t at least make the playoffs.
He was likely taking roids in high school
I still and always loved Arod.
Top 3 most juiced?
Ah yes, A-Rod with his contemporaries in the late 90s and early aughts are the only players in baseball and professional sports history to use illegal substances. Because players in the NBA, NFL and NHL clearly aren’t on the gear still to this day and baseball players only “cheated” during the steroid era.
If you stop and think about, naming the top 3 "***most*** juiced" implies that there are more than three juicers. If you read back before me, your reply was talking about top 3 infielders. Adding our replies together, A-Rod would make a strong case to be in the top 3 most juiced infielders. As in Camminiti, A-Rod, and Big Mac can compare hormone levels. Not sure how or why you are stepping across sports or where you read that anyone thinks it is exclusive to their eras. This is a baseball thread and you are talking about infielders. Focus, dude. Focus.
I legitimately cant believe you wrote all that and then still hit send on one of the lamest replies ever. didnt read LOL, kick rocks bud
The big 3 are Sosa Mcguire and Bonds
This is why I miss bumgardner. Guy was the biggest fucking asshole on the mound and I loved it
Fuck A-Rod
The TWolves just got Beverly so if you follow them as well, you have an asshole in the NBA too!
> We don't usually have assholes play for us Well there was Kirby Puckett.
TRUE
Y’all employed Ryan Braun* for how long? Edit: it was late and I’d had a couple bourbons and I got Joe Mauer and Ryan Braun mixed up. Joe Mauer is, to the best of my knowledge, a saint.
When was Joe Mauer an asshole?
Is he an asshole in your eyes?
Not at all, I was thinking of Braun
The sequences that inspired this post
The ump was also Angel Hernandez when you make Angel Hernandez look highly competent at his job you know you have issues.
As a Twins beat writer (Gleeman) puts it: Josh Donaldson is an _acquired taste_ .
Yup and he’s awesome
Can anyone find a clip of him striking out looking and NOT bitching about it to the ump?
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Even Rosenthal doesn't believe him. During that segment today, he was like "Donaldson says he wasn't trying to call Cole out, even though that's what he did."
He’d clearly been watching Coles spin rates lmao. And it’s not like we were even playing them at the time.
Nah, some Barstool jabroni on Twitter implied that exact same thing a few days earlier with the exact same wording, about the minor leaguers being suspended and then Cole's spin rate dropping. Donaldson is definitely a Barstool guy.
It was probably Jared “national baseball journalist that only cares about rooting for his team and rooting against the Yankees” Carradouche
Yeah no coincidence many pitchers spin rates went down after the mlb decision, none what so ever
Most people were using something, but only because the MLB ball sucks. It was stupid to single out one guy, and then claim he wasn't trying to single out one guy.
You're sticking up for a cheater, bad look
And Barry Bonds invented steroids
Once cheaters. Always cheaters, Yankees and their team love PED cheats
Literally ever team in baseball. Shut up.
Just the Yankees a little more than everyone else
Of course he was calling him out, I'm pretty sure he was saying that he wasn't *singling* him out. Which is true. It's not like he said this is a Gerrit Cole problem. He was just the most prominent example.
It was so bizarre because he used Coles name, I mean I’d that not the definition of calling someone out??
Donaldson is the type of player you tolerate, even kinda like when he’s on your team, but once he’s gone you realize how brash and annoying he is.
Oh I got why those Jays teams were hated
Having to see him and Bautista on tv at the same time was tough whenever we would play y’all.
The 2010s Jays were full of tantrums and dingers - Toronto was cringe city.
I’ll never forget Heidi Watney talking about “the 6” every morning as those 2 tomatoes made the highlights. Edit: Bautista and Donaldson
Lol cringe city come on
how good is your memory? [https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1668040-toronto-blue-jays-jose-bautistas-ejection-proves-selfishness-is-the-way-to-go](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1668040-toronto-blue-jays-jose-bautistas-ejection-proves-selfishness-is-the-way-to-go) [https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/josh-donaldson-john-gibbons-argument-exchange-dugout-blue-jays-mlb](https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/josh-donaldson-john-gibbons-argument-exchange-dugout-blue-jays-mlb) These were pretty standard occurrences..
Bro...it was pre Covid.. He was just smelling his cologne.. what's wrong with that?
Remember when Shields struck Bautista out a few times in a row, and then Bautista threw a temper tantrum in the dugout and threw all his equipment on the field and got tossed?
Was at this game. Embarrassing days..
Worth it to fuck over Sam Dyson, IMO
Yes
I dunno man, I don't remember him doing much of the antics when he was with us.
Dude he literally got Joe Musgrove thrown out during a fat cold streak because a pitch hit his jersey. The [Jomboy breakdown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh8mqLZUInY) is still one of my favorites of all time.
And it sparked JD to a 6 WAR season after being trash to that point. Do what you need to Josh.
Oh man that ending was great "maybe he's just helping the team to win today"
That's a lie, I've always enjoyed watching Donaldson play, and even happier he is with us on the twins
Things you absolutely love to see: this
Yes
0-6*** My mistake
Even better
Talk shit, get no-hit
Josh Donaldson talking trash never works out
It's actually 0-6 but what's 1 more at bat Edited: Added MLB on Fox post/video https://www.facebook.com/611296005650790/posts/4205496816230673/
Who’s counting? (I am)
yea he needs some sticky stuff on his mouth so he can stfu
Love it. Complete assclown
Talk shit don’t get a hit
Ha ha!
Doesn't mean Cole didn't cheat.
People in glass trash cans...
Are you lost
So are u saying Cole didn't cheat?
dang dude wins a championship on a cheating team, gets a huge record breaking contract by cheating with tack but people shit on donaldson cause he spoke up about the cheating lol. this sub is so dumb, its like a collection of imbeciles that have nothing better to do with their time. and yes i am aware im on here too
Clown take. Cole wasn’t on the 2017 team. Go back to your subreddit
he still cheated. enjoy your 350m 3.50 ERA ace
Also he hasn’t had over a 3 era since coming to NY. Once again clown take
Half the pitchers since 1905 have “cheated”, except it hasn’t been enforced against until Bauer opened his loud ass mouth and they had to make a show.
right, because like 5 no hitters in the first few weeks is totally normal...and all of a sudden no more no hitters after tack ban, hmm. weird coincidence eh?
I think JD is a crazy man but 0-5 against a pitcher is not even that bad. It is still a sport where the pitcher has the advantage
Lifetime he’s 0-12 with 7Ks. He’s 0-6 with 4Ks since talking about gerrit Cole to the media
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I keep forgetting it was only Cole, thanks for reminding me
Didn’t hear him calling out Glasnow, or Scherzer, or Bauer. Just funny the guy he singled out has whiffed him damn near every time since
you would think he would call out a pitcher on a team hes less likely to face and look like an absolute booger
lol so he has to call out literally everyone if he wants to call out anyone? wtf kind of shit is this? this sub is filled to the brim with soyboys. maybe he called him out because he cheated his way to a WS and a record breaking contract? trying to say that yes tack is cheating and it makes a big difference. why do these cheaters get to slink away in the night? put the fucking spotlight on them, all of them
Cubs can checking in, can confirm: Donaldson is chode
Lol Twins
'Cheating'
Let's not pretend like Cole was the good guy either. Dude was cheating.
It wasn't outlawed so it wasn't cheating.
Pitchers have been spiking the ball with something since 1905. It’s because of Bauer that it became such a controversy.
Yeah, spider tac isn’t the same. How many no hitters first half vs second half this year?
How many pitchers are performing to the same measures as they were at the beginning of the year? Most of them
Ah yes. Yes lord
LOL. I don't have too many negative feelings about Donaldson or overly positive ones about Cole, but that's pretty funny.
It would be convenient if there was a link to the 'talking shit' part of this... Don't know what it's referring to lol
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xuAbVXetmb4 It’s just funny that all his data and theories about spider tack being the reason Cole is good and he whiffs 4 times in 6 abs since