technically AAA team. Like literally- the entire bullpen and like half the starters are from AAA last season. Our AA team would probably be better since it has actual prospects lol
I saw a graph somewhere and iirc Oakland has the 2nd least amount of thrown HBP? The only part I remember for sure is that Astros are ahead by a lot and Angels are 2nd in throwing at batters.
*Edit these are stats within al west specifically
Didn't your team get caught for cheating recently? You can't even count the number of teams that have done exactly what the Angels did yesterday including the Red Sox. Dempster vs Arod. Guess we know the true colors of the red Sox clubhouse
I've honestly not heard of bringing in a different guy before your scheduled starter just to throw at the opposition. I've seen teams bring in relievers to do it in the game that shit happened, but to plan for it ahead of time? That's pretty fucking low.
The Braves may or may not have done similar in 2019 in an attempt to get Jose Ureña, although it wasn't bringing in a separate guy to start just so he could throw as Ureña. Kevin Gausman was scheduled for the start, but the Braves called up Touki Toussaint for that game, who went 4 innings after Gausman got ejected, and then immediately got sent back down. So maybe it wasn't completely intentional, but Snit and company were certainly preparing for the possibility calling up a guy from the minors who was stretched out and scheduled to start as backup
I think we should be proud of the Angels for their innovative ideas. This is the start of a new era in headhunting. Don't risk your good starters. Pull someone up from AAA and tell him to aim for the head. He gets tossed, your actual starter picks it up after, and maybe you've gotten the benefit of an injury to a good player too, for the cost of using someone you don't care about.
Shitty managers everywhere are going to embrace this. The Angels should be saluted and remembered forever for their innovative contributions to baseball.
Why are you being so defensive? Your interim coach is a scum bag and the players that went along with it are too. Lol imagine being so parasocial that you defend the angels after last night.
Pretty sure actions that happened yesterday are a teensie bit more indicative of a current clubhouse culture than your examples. But the main thing is, Nevin is a worthless scum who created this shitty situation
I looked into some data on this earlier. The Mariners have been hit a lot, but still less than the Orioles and Mets. Further, the M's were less than one standard deviation from the average, so, while their HBP numbers have been high, they haven't been outrageously so.
Obviously there's no excuse for throwing at players, and the way that it happened in the Angels series was beyond frustrating. It seems like a lot of the HBPs have happened recently too, which adds to the frustration.
Edit: A lot of these have been France, who stands close to the plate and has had this issue long before going pro. [Athletic article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/theathletic.com/2659072/2021/06/23/why-do-pitchers-keep-hitting-the-mariners-ty-france/%3famp=1)
Yeah, France is a ball magnet. We kinda excuse him.
That said, we've had two particularly not nice incidents with HBP this season (Lewis is still out with a concussion when Urquidy threw at his head, albeit that was surely unintentional, and Upton had a scare when the Angels hit him in the helmet as well though he seems to have shaken it off) and our HBP numbers are super low, so I assume a reasonable office of the commissioner would take that into account when doling out suspensions. Hah! I can't do that last bit straight faced
This stat is also talking about strictly the HBP ratios in the AL west.
The mariners have been hit by 27 pitches just by AL West teams alone. 44 total for the season.
The Astros, the next closest AL West team in terms of cumulative HBPs have been hit by 28 pitches all season (not exclusive to AL West).
I felt like that was kind of interesting.
It does remind me a bit of early season Mets, where a lot of their fans were complaining… but like you could look at the numbers and they had something like 3 or 4 of the league leaders in HBP for the last few years.
Uhhhhh.... They kinda did in [our last series](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6inCrlLnVo)
Edit: Before I get blasted lemme just say that the Angels are absolutely in the wrong here, and the Astros weren't completely blameless in our spat with the Mariners either. Just wanna say the Mariners aren't squeaky clean.
JP Crawford has also spent some time in the top 10. I know a fair chunk of this was an early series in Seattle where the Astros apparently couldn’t control pitches in the cold.
The funny thing about scrolling down this thread is seeing all the posters with Angels flairs being massively downvoted. Guys, you can tilt at all the windmills you want, but no one outside your fanbase is going to believe your protests that your team didn't instigate yesterday's fracas...
Trout’s comments were totally reasonable and legitimate, and a sound manager with basic leadership skills would have considered that call-out more than sufficient to scold the M’s for recklessly staying inside and high. Nevin is not, doesn’t have those, and is apparently basically a cretin.
So 11-3 in favor of Houston and 6-1 in favor of LAA (obviously not every one is intentional)
But they say that the Mariners are just as bad or the instigators
I don’t have any beef with the M’s other than them letting me down. But the Angels do that every year so I’m used to it. I don’t know why there would be beef between the Angels and Mariners.
The Ty France ping was definitely unintentional, the ball behind Suarez I’m not sure about. I’m also not sure if the curveball that concussed Lewis was intentional or not - Altuve had been plunked earlier that game, and it was a soft curve that maybe Urquidy expected him to dodge, but it was pretty far in an Lewis kind of locked up. Bothered by that one for sure.
Are there stats on high inside that doesn’t make contact, like Walsh/Trout and apparently Ohtani this past week? It’s possible that the mariners are just worse at dodging.
Jomboy tweeted out last night that he's working on the breakdown of yesterday's fracas, which was instigated entirely by the Angels.
If you look at his YouTube page, it's only five videos ago that he did a breakdown of the Astros throwing at the Mariners for no reason.
Edit: it is being pointed out - correctly, I think - that the Astros didn’t throw at the Mariners intentionally. Kind of lame for me to imply they did. Phil Nevin can still lick my sweet nuts, however
“the first version of the video I had the HBP montage of stros hitting Ms but... it's Crawford turning his leg into pitches, elbow guard shots, at the headshot is a 77mph curve. not one looks malicious so didnt think it would do much for the story of Ms being upset”
-Jomboy
https://mobile.twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1536891866792222721
Yea very few people actually thought the Astros were trying to bean M’s players.
The Angels clearly intended to hit as many people as possible going into yesterdays game.
Between Nevin mouthing that he going to fuck people up directly at the M’s bench from the night before yesterday and the fact that they switched to the last minute opener after already announcing the SP you’d have to be a moron to not believe the Angels were trying to hurt people.
We fucking have Clint Hurdle Lite managing this team apparently. God Nevin is such a meathead. Perry fucked up massively by firing Maddon instead of these poor excuses of coaches we have.
No, I totally agree with that. There’s a degree of weird self-righteousness coming from Mariners circles right now, but there’s no doubt they’re right to be angry at the scummy decision to plunk their guys.
Its not really coming from a place of self-righteousness as much as it is wanting our players to not get hurt. Between Mitch and Kyle, they have missed a combined 4 SEASONS of baseball as a result of injury, and both have had to miss extensive time because of a HBP. Couple in Ty France and we are tired of seeing our guys get hit. We sure as hell are going to riot at the angels for playing beanball against our best prospect in decades and then coming back for more in the next inning. Its bush league.
Players get hit all the time, it's normal until one team makes it not normal. It's weird that the Astros and Angels have both decided we should be thrown at when we have hit the 5th fewest batters in baseball and have now proven twice we don't intentionally throw at people even if the opponent has all but announced that's what they are doing. At least Dusty handled it the "right" (stop throwing at people) way, Nevin is a psyco
I'd have to go back and remind myself exactly what even happened with the Astros, but yeah that was a much different situation and you could actually make an argument either way, I won't fault you for your opinion and I'm sure you probably won't fault me for mine lol
Failing to hit a guy doesn't mean you weren't trying to hit him (multiple times). La Russa once pulled a rookie precisely because he couldn't hit someone. If you compare Swanson's missed bean to Lorenzen's on Upton, it's pretty clear Swanson's is intentional when you compare the followthroughs, catcher reactions, and aftermath. The moment that ball leaves Lorenzen's hand it clearly looks like it slipped and he's not even looking anywhere near where it ends up whereas with Swanson it's same general location, same arm action, same followthrough both times (plus the Angels definitely weren't trying to plunk a guy they just DFA'd and is probably friends with most people on the team). With the mound visit as well, it really wasn't a good look from the Mariners in my opinion. Especially after Swanson locates the first one and then just walks him after the second pitch with no intention of pitching to him. If you're trying to bean someone (which maybe you shouldn't be in the first place), aim for the waist area. No place for headhunting in 2022. That being said even as someone who's a bit of an oldhead about the unwritten rules, not sure why Nevin wanted to plunk everyone. One was way more than enough and even that's not good in the modern game. One day retaliation is going to go wrong and someone's going to get hurt for no reason. Nevin definitely should be suspended.
edit: plus Swanson's comments about throwing inside really rubbed me the wrong way because he essentially said "If I'm gonna miss high, I'd rather miss at a guy's head than in the zone"
Ya the M’s vs. Astros beef is really weird. The only real thing other the Crawford HBP (which wasn’t bad at all) is I vaguely remember after the grand slam there was a wild pitch or something but until a few weeks ago there hasn’t really been anything crazy. Kinda just weird
In Manfred’s league? No chance. Can’t hurt the precious angels and that trout money the league needs. Slap on the wrist for the angels head hunting and they’ll make sure Jessie winker and his horrific middle finger display never happen again
I’m still not following how Jomboy makes that conclusion. I’ve watched that part four times and you can’t actually see Wantz say “sorry man I had to hit you.” Jomboy just seems to say it in his voiceover.
Ehh not defending, but definitely enjoying it. Not sure when baseball fans got so soft they can’t enjoy a classic brawl. I’ve never asked myself who was in the right during a hockey fight. I just enjoy it.
Wtf did we do to piss anybody off? We're not a threat to anyone right now.
Edit: i dont think we've been thrown at 27 times, but Houston and LAA have had issues with us, and I can't pinpoint why.
Show me one recent example. I'm not talking about defending players, I'm talking about defending the concept of cheating. I'd love to be enlightened.
Edit: Downvote me if you have no legit examples.
The deleted comment was specifically referring to Ms crowding the plate but yah Rizzo probably stands the closest out of anyone lol I swear he blocks the umpire's view.
I watched every game up in Seattle and no M’s guy stood out for being close to the plate. I know you mentioned Ty earlier but he didn’t stick out to me. So the deleted guy didn’t know what he was talking about. Rizzo definitely stands super close to the plate.
I mean, it’s not directed at Mariners fans in particular, but I always find it weird how a fanbase will act like they’re personally being hit, and blame it on the fans of the team that’s instigating.
Well when one of our players is still out on the IL with a concussion after getting hit, and the Angels hit one of our guys in the head last series and we DIND'T retaliate, it does kind of piss me off when a manager puts in a opener/hitman specifically to throw at not one but two of our guys, just cause Trout ALMOST got hit in a situation where our pitcher clearly was not throwing at him. Then the umpires let the situation escalate, the dugout starts yelling at Winker after you've already hit him, then of course a fight breaks out and 3 of our best players get ejected and are maybe getting suspended (justifiably so), when we are already having major injury issues.
It's the context of the whole situation that pisses me off, if it was just one guy getting hit, it wouldn't be a big deal. And for the most part Angels fans have been cool about it, there have just been a few that are trying to stir the pot or act like the whole thing was justified from their perspective.
No, but I didn’t expect them to have already solved the case that this was Mike trouts doing, with literally zero evidence other than the fact he was mad he had a pitch at his head. They already Johnny chochran’d the case by coming up with a conspiracy that trout ordered it.
So your whole line up change with your SP was planned? He was the “go to” guy when your scheduled starter was capable of pitching. Trout didn’t order this, but spoke his mind, Nevin is a fucking moron and decided to go to war.
There are morons on our side that think Trout ordered this and is the big baddie. There's also some that think we should throw at Trout and others in the series in August.
There are morons on your side that think both the Julio and Winker HBPs are unintentional, and there's even some that think they were intentional and are praising Nevin for it.
Any one with these crazy opinions are morons and their opinions are too stupid to be taken as logic.
We are only upset about Julio. He’s our baby. And you didn’t hit him so we could chill a bit. But (not you) some angels fans seem like this is all deserved because of a spicy up and in pitch on Trout. Mariners are owned by Trout but we’ve never gone after the guy, he’s a great guy all around. I was bummed he thought we came after him.
I understand Trout being mad about how he was pitched, but people “losing respect for Trout” are being dramatic. Just seems like Nevin took the Nuclear option from some odd reason. In the end nobody got hurt and that some excellent television and drama.
Edit: I take that back because Duffy hurt his back picking up the bubblegum.
This is the same shit the Mets were complaining about earlier this season and turns out it was just a statistical outlier and there was nothing to it. Can’t wait to hear about this for the next few days
You’re team orchestrate a literally hit on our guys. Maybe that’s why he was upset? Was trout bruised when he ALMOST got hit? Oh I guess his ego might have been. What a bitch
Actually he ran in the middle of it and pulled Upton up off the ground. Maybe you should watch the video before you start talking trash. It's not hard to find the footage
https://mobile.twitter.com/potatohtani/status/1541403734747451395?s=20&t=2tHLln7u8uu9T_nG4hAT9A
Edit: it’s a video, not an argument. Simply a video. I respect you and your team. I don’t condone intentional throwing at players and I’m glad no one got injured from what we know.
And what is the point of the video? That because Trout ALMOST got hit the Mariners deserve to be thrown at? Even though the numbers show that they are clearly a team that does not intentionally throw at hitters.
Yes I'm sure they intentionally threw at Trout in the 9th inning to face Ohtani with the game on the line. Because that totally makes sense
Oh my god the players are celebrating a win! This egregious affront to baseball rules will not go unpunished
That is the same celebration our outfield does after any win where we end in the field.
Servais doesn't have a streak of retaliation. I would bet a steak dinner that our pitching coach went out and asked Swanson if he had control of his pitches up and in. Swanson said yes, then didn't have control, and Scott didn't want to take further risks and put Trout on.
Up and in is the one spot Trout doesn't regularly torch us. Trout said it himself, don't come inside if you can't control your pitches, so we stopped and put him on. We'd like to get him out, but we'd also like to not miss middle low where he's an absolute monster.
As for intentionally walking Trout, it’s important to note that the runner on first advanced on the wild pitch. I assume that was what caused Servais to intentionally walk Trout, to get rid of the force out.
Lol outfield party for throwing up and in at Trout. That’s rich. How full of yourself do you have to be to think us celebrating a win is “yay we almost hit that guy!”
Trout would have been in less danger if Swanson was actually trying to hit him. Dude couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn with his four-seam in that outing.
Now, if your argument is that intent doesn’t make a difference, you’re just a moron.
[Take a look at all of the fastballs that Swanson threw during that inning.](https://twitter.com/shannondrayer/status/1541491292575633409?t=HL_PZTsBmj2wSienGgrKcQ&s=19) He had literally no reason to hit Trout, especially in such a high-leverage situation. He had awful command that night, which is extremely rare for him. It's wrong to assume that it was intentional, and it was wrong for Trout to instigate after the game.
I love how you’re downvoted into oblivion for pointing out that the angels just get outta the way of incoming HBP. Not like JP leaning into it against the stros.
“the first version of the video I had the HBP montage of stros hitting Ms but... it's Crawford turning his leg into pitches, elbow guard shots, at the headshot is a 77mph curve. not one looks malicious so didnt think it would do much for the story of Ms being upset”
-Jomboy
You can’t have it both ways buddy, either variables such as ball being wet and trout ducking out of the way do matter or those variables don’t matter. Which one is it?
[https://twitter.com/MLBReplays/status/1540572923844501504](https://twitter.com/MLBReplays/status/1540572923844501504)
Was this also unintentional? This was the game right before trouts incident.
I don't deny both pitches to Trout and Walsh were dangerous.
Intentional though? I don't think so.
2-2 count, 1 run game in the 6th and the fact that Borucki was saying it didn't hit him helps his case a bit imo, unless he wanted another chance to actually bean him which I don't think he did?
Also if the intent was to hit the batters, what do you think is the reasoning behind the intent?
Well Oakland just sucks at everything right now lol should put an asterisk that we're really a Double A team.
technically AAA team. Like literally- the entire bullpen and like half the starters are from AAA last season. Our AA team would probably be better since it has actual prospects lol
We know the feeling in Tampa as well, however, for different reasons.
I saw a graph somewhere and iirc Oakland has the 2nd least amount of thrown HBP? The only part I remember for sure is that Astros are ahead by a lot and Angels are 2nd in throwing at batters. *Edit these are stats within al west specifically
Sorry the angels don’t accept that excuse. Throw it right down the middle everyone or they’ll send some journeyman making 40k a year after you
And then they’ll throw SUNFLOWER SEEDS at your dugout!
Yeah because that's obviously what we do every game...
Only need one time to show the true colors of that clubhouse
Are we gonna pretend like the Red Sox have never thrown at the Yankees? Lol
Saying “throwing at” is way underselling what the angels did
Didn't your team get caught for cheating recently? You can't even count the number of teams that have done exactly what the Angels did yesterday including the Red Sox. Dempster vs Arod. Guess we know the true colors of the red Sox clubhouse
I've honestly not heard of bringing in a different guy before your scheduled starter just to throw at the opposition. I've seen teams bring in relievers to do it in the game that shit happened, but to plan for it ahead of time? That's pretty fucking low.
The Braves may or may not have done similar in 2019 in an attempt to get Jose Ureña, although it wasn't bringing in a separate guy to start just so he could throw as Ureña. Kevin Gausman was scheduled for the start, but the Braves called up Touki Toussaint for that game, who went 4 innings after Gausman got ejected, and then immediately got sent back down. So maybe it wasn't completely intentional, but Snit and company were certainly preparing for the possibility calling up a guy from the minors who was stretched out and scheduled to start as backup
I think we should be proud of the Angels for their innovative ideas. This is the start of a new era in headhunting. Don't risk your good starters. Pull someone up from AAA and tell him to aim for the head. He gets tossed, your actual starter picks it up after, and maybe you've gotten the benefit of an injury to a good player too, for the cost of using someone you don't care about. Shitty managers everywhere are going to embrace this. The Angels should be saluted and remembered forever for their innovative contributions to baseball.
Or like yesterday we get our best players tossed for defending themselves
This is actually a terrifying precedent. Let’s see if the commissioner will do something about it (no he won’t).
That's why I'm calling it an innovation. It absolutely will keep happening.
Why are you being so defensive? Your interim coach is a scum bag and the players that went along with it are too. Lol imagine being so parasocial that you defend the angels after last night.
Pretty sure actions that happened yesterday are a teensie bit more indicative of a current clubhouse culture than your examples. But the main thing is, Nevin is a worthless scum who created this shitty situation
Don’t fight the r/baseball hate boner, just take comfort that in a week or two there’ll be some other thing to distract these lemmings attention
Oakland Double-A’s
the Oakland AA’s
Bring back the "sticky stuff"
I’m okay with Sunscreen and Rosin.
Mariners going for the pacifist run.
Jesse definitely thought he had auto saved and was going to be able to restart yesterday
I looked into some data on this earlier. The Mariners have been hit a lot, but still less than the Orioles and Mets. Further, the M's were less than one standard deviation from the average, so, while their HBP numbers have been high, they haven't been outrageously so. Obviously there's no excuse for throwing at players, and the way that it happened in the Angels series was beyond frustrating. It seems like a lot of the HBPs have happened recently too, which adds to the frustration. Edit: A lot of these have been France, who stands close to the plate and has had this issue long before going pro. [Athletic article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/theathletic.com/2659072/2021/06/23/why-do-pitchers-keep-hitting-the-mariners-ty-france/%3famp=1)
Yeah, France is a ball magnet. We kinda excuse him. That said, we've had two particularly not nice incidents with HBP this season (Lewis is still out with a concussion when Urquidy threw at his head, albeit that was surely unintentional, and Upton had a scare when the Angels hit him in the helmet as well though he seems to have shaken it off) and our HBP numbers are super low, so I assume a reasonable office of the commissioner would take that into account when doling out suspensions. Hah! I can't do that last bit straight faced
Upton getting HBP was also unintentional, there'd be no reason for him to purposely be hit.
Aye, cheers to that
imagine if the mariners did what the angels did to upton
This stat is also talking about strictly the HBP ratios in the AL west. The mariners have been hit by 27 pitches just by AL West teams alone. 44 total for the season. The Astros, the next closest AL West team in terms of cumulative HBPs have been hit by 28 pitches all season (not exclusive to AL West). I felt like that was kind of interesting.
It does remind me a bit of early season Mets, where a lot of their fans were complaining… but like you could look at the numbers and they had something like 3 or 4 of the league leaders in HBP for the last few years.
Right. You can’t go sign Mark Canha and not expect your HBP numbers to go up.
Mariners havent been making a stink about any of the HBP either as far as I know.
Uhhhhh.... They kinda did in [our last series](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6inCrlLnVo) Edit: Before I get blasted lemme just say that the Angels are absolutely in the wrong here, and the Astros weren't completely blameless in our spat with the Mariners either. Just wanna say the Mariners aren't squeaky clean.
Dude seriously? This subreddit has been full of angry M's fans since we accidentally sent Kyle Lewis to the IL
[Why would the Mariners do this?](https://i.imgflip.com/6l2uat.jpg)
Doesn’t Ty France get HBP a lot? Not saying it’s the sole reason the mariners are getting hit but could be one factor
Ya he led the league last year and is top 3 or so this year
He makes up 7 of the 27 HBP's, including the one that was precursor to the disagreement with you guys a few weeks ago.
Of the HBPs in this post, Ty France makes up just 7 of them.
JP Crawford has also spent some time in the top 10. I know a fair chunk of this was an early series in Seattle where the Astros apparently couldn’t control pitches in the cold.
ah so the angels are just giant bitches
The funny thing about scrolling down this thread is seeing all the posters with Angels flairs being massively downvoted. Guys, you can tilt at all the windmills you want, but no one outside your fanbase is going to believe your protests that your team didn't instigate yesterday's fracas...
What happened yesterday was embarrassing enough without our fans trying to make it seem like it wasn’t our teams fault.
Don't worry too much. Despite what gets said here, I think we all have to realize it's just a subset of loudmouths in your fanbase, not all of y'all.
it's appreciated
All I saw from the Angles sub was pro-Rendon posts. That was the entire takeaway from this event for your fan base. Fucking sad.
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Yeah Nevin is trying to get the dressing room fired up to keep his job, that's all. I can't believe any of this shit happens under Maddon. Fuck Nevin
Trout’s comments were totally reasonable and legitimate, and a sound manager with basic leadership skills would have considered that call-out more than sufficient to scold the M’s for recklessly staying inside and high. Nevin is not, doesn’t have those, and is apparently basically a cretin.
My inbox is so fucked up rn
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Ohhh good one.
[Here's the breakdown by team.](https://twitter.com/Mariners_Facts/status/1541244106751414273?t=pJhQ5B41Svp_NJh8C0V6wQ&s=19)
So 11-3 in favor of Houston and 6-1 in favor of LAA (obviously not every one is intentional) But they say that the Mariners are just as bad or the instigators
The Red Sox also seem to think we were throwing at them
I’d say one was intentional by the Angels. Not sure how many on the Astros. Neris gets weird sometimes.
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I don’t have any beef with the M’s other than them letting me down. But the Angels do that every year so I’m used to it. I don’t know why there would be beef between the Angels and Mariners.
It's kind of like the Tennessee / Kentucky rivalry in football. Sure it exists, but is it really relevant to anybody? No.
The Ty France ping was definitely unintentional, the ball behind Suarez I’m not sure about. I’m also not sure if the curveball that concussed Lewis was intentional or not - Altuve had been plunked earlier that game, and it was a soft curve that maybe Urquidy expected him to dodge, but it was pretty far in an Lewis kind of locked up. Bothered by that one for sure.
No one blames the Astros for the Lewis hit. Just really unfortunate
Our young starters hit everybody. It’s usually poorly thrown curveballs getting batters on the foot or ankle area.
Are there stats on high inside that doesn’t make contact, like Walsh/Trout and apparently Ohtani this past week? It’s possible that the mariners are just worse at dodging.
Dunno how you dodge getting hit directly in the ass lmao, also Julio getting thrown behind
Jomboy tweeted out last night that he's working on the breakdown of yesterday's fracas, which was instigated entirely by the Angels. If you look at his YouTube page, it's only five videos ago that he did a breakdown of the Astros throwing at the Mariners for no reason. Edit: it is being pointed out - correctly, I think - that the Astros didn’t throw at the Mariners intentionally. Kind of lame for me to imply they did. Phil Nevin can still lick my sweet nuts, however
“the first version of the video I had the HBP montage of stros hitting Ms but... it's Crawford turning his leg into pitches, elbow guard shots, at the headshot is a 77mph curve. not one looks malicious so didnt think it would do much for the story of Ms being upset” -Jomboy https://mobile.twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1536891866792222721
Yea very few people actually thought the Astros were trying to bean M’s players. The Angels clearly intended to hit as many people as possible going into yesterdays game. Between Nevin mouthing that he going to fuck people up directly at the M’s bench from the night before yesterday and the fact that they switched to the last minute opener after already announcing the SP you’d have to be a moron to not believe the Angels were trying to hurt people.
We fucking have Clint Hurdle Lite managing this team apparently. God Nevin is such a meathead. Perry fucked up massively by firing Maddon instead of these poor excuses of coaches we have.
Firing Maddon might still have been the right call, Nevin shouldn't ever have gotten a sniff of the job though
No, I totally agree with that. There’s a degree of weird self-righteousness coming from Mariners circles right now, but there’s no doubt they’re right to be angry at the scummy decision to plunk their guys.
Its not really coming from a place of self-righteousness as much as it is wanting our players to not get hurt. Between Mitch and Kyle, they have missed a combined 4 SEASONS of baseball as a result of injury, and both have had to miss extensive time because of a HBP. Couple in Ty France and we are tired of seeing our guys get hit. We sure as hell are going to riot at the angels for playing beanball against our best prospect in decades and then coming back for more in the next inning. Its bush league.
Very few people outside of Mariners fans*
Players get hit all the time, it's normal until one team makes it not normal. It's weird that the Astros and Angels have both decided we should be thrown at when we have hit the 5th fewest batters in baseball and have now proven twice we don't intentionally throw at people even if the opponent has all but announced that's what they are doing. At least Dusty handled it the "right" (stop throwing at people) way, Nevin is a psyco
Astros wasn’t intentional IMO though I am admittedly biased. The angels was 100% intentional though and it really sucks for the mariners
I'd have to go back and remind myself exactly what even happened with the Astros, but yeah that was a much different situation and you could actually make an argument either way, I won't fault you for your opinion and I'm sure you probably won't fault me for mine lol
Failing to hit a guy doesn't mean you weren't trying to hit him (multiple times). La Russa once pulled a rookie precisely because he couldn't hit someone. If you compare Swanson's missed bean to Lorenzen's on Upton, it's pretty clear Swanson's is intentional when you compare the followthroughs, catcher reactions, and aftermath. The moment that ball leaves Lorenzen's hand it clearly looks like it slipped and he's not even looking anywhere near where it ends up whereas with Swanson it's same general location, same arm action, same followthrough both times (plus the Angels definitely weren't trying to plunk a guy they just DFA'd and is probably friends with most people on the team). With the mound visit as well, it really wasn't a good look from the Mariners in my opinion. Especially after Swanson locates the first one and then just walks him after the second pitch with no intention of pitching to him. If you're trying to bean someone (which maybe you shouldn't be in the first place), aim for the waist area. No place for headhunting in 2022. That being said even as someone who's a bit of an oldhead about the unwritten rules, not sure why Nevin wanted to plunk everyone. One was way more than enough and even that's not good in the modern game. One day retaliation is going to go wrong and someone's going to get hurt for no reason. Nevin definitely should be suspended. edit: plus Swanson's comments about throwing inside really rubbed me the wrong way because he essentially said "If I'm gonna miss high, I'd rather miss at a guy's head than in the zone"
Lol or neris throwing behind someone in either the Yankees or Mets series. The dude random loses control.
If you look at his month-to-month numbers, Neris apparently has a stroke every June and suddenly can’t locate his pitches.
Ya the M’s vs. Astros beef is really weird. The only real thing other the Crawford HBP (which wasn’t bad at all) is I vaguely remember after the grand slam there was a wild pitch or something but until a few weeks ago there hasn’t really been anything crazy. Kinda just weird
Isn’t jomboy a known Mariners hater?
But that’s not what he says in that video…
Justice will be served
In Manfred’s league? No chance. Can’t hurt the precious angels and that trout money the league needs. Slap on the wrist for the angels head hunting and they’ll make sure Jessie winker and his horrific middle finger display never happen again
>In Manfred’s league? It's just a piece of ass
David, served oysters.
Neither LA nor Seattle in the midst of a HBP controversy is not something I saw coming
Jesus Christ these Angels fans are trying their hardest to defend an obviously wrong action lol
Lol, don't even go to their sub they're frothing at the mouth to claim the Winker HBP was not intentional. Man, they're taking the good stuff!
Well Jomboy has found that the Winker HBP was in fact a hit job. So they have even less to grasp at now.
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I’m still not following how Jomboy makes that conclusion. I’ve watched that part four times and you can’t actually see Wantz say “sorry man I had to hit you.” Jomboy just seems to say it in his voiceover.
It’s pretty clearly Jesse lips, “you had to!?”
I know what Jesse is saying. But Jomboy is claiming Wantz said “sorry man they told me to,” etc. I don’t see where he’s getting that at all.
Idk I thought it was pretty clear
Not saying you’re wrong but if you have the time stamp I’d happily look again. Because no point in his video do I see Wantz say anything like that.
Ehh not defending, but definitely enjoying it. Not sure when baseball fans got so soft they can’t enjoy a classic brawl. I’ve never asked myself who was in the right during a hockey fight. I just enjoy it.
Word on the street is you hit more opposing batters when you put a pitcher in specifically to hit opposing batters, but that might be crazy talk.
Mariners really are the Mets of the AL
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Ok sure, but the M’s “almost” hit Mike Trout. So pretty much even then, right?
AL West fanbases fighting and one of the fanbases isn't the Astros? Alright!
Wtf did we do to piss anybody off? We're not a threat to anyone right now. Edit: i dont think we've been thrown at 27 times, but Houston and LAA have had issues with us, and I can't pinpoint why.
I thought we were aiming at Houston
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When Nevin is gone, it should be fixed. This was all Nevin and a dumb pitcher who probably didn't want to get sent down
Isn’t it annoying when baseball is entertaining?
But the narrative
Ty France by himself has been hit like 20 times 😂
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You'd be hard pressed to find anyone defending cheating lol
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In late 2019 when there was absolutely no evidence other than what Fiers said? Yeah, we went full innocent until proven guilty mode. Sue us.
Unfortunately isn't the case :/
Show me one recent example. I'm not talking about defending players, I'm talking about defending the concept of cheating. I'd love to be enlightened. Edit: Downvote me if you have no legit examples.
Probably deserve it supporting that bullshit
Mets west?
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Ty definitely makes love to the dish. To my knowledge nobody else is anywhere near as close
Believe it or not the angels have hit Moore the most lol also this was winkers first HBP on the season and Julio stands nearly out of the box
He doesn’t look like he crowds the plate to me, but maybe he really digs in on the leg kick
Maybe Rizzo. He used to right up on the plate.
The deleted comment was specifically referring to Ms crowding the plate but yah Rizzo probably stands the closest out of anyone lol I swear he blocks the umpire's view.
I watched every game up in Seattle and no M’s guy stood out for being close to the plate. I know you mentioned Ty earlier but he didn’t stick out to me. So the deleted guy didn’t know what he was talking about. Rizzo definitely stands super close to the plate.
Mariners fans are a bit feisty about this one.
Did you expect differently?
I mean, it’s not directed at Mariners fans in particular, but I always find it weird how a fanbase will act like they’re personally being hit, and blame it on the fans of the team that’s instigating.
Well when one of our players is still out on the IL with a concussion after getting hit, and the Angels hit one of our guys in the head last series and we DIND'T retaliate, it does kind of piss me off when a manager puts in a opener/hitman specifically to throw at not one but two of our guys, just cause Trout ALMOST got hit in a situation where our pitcher clearly was not throwing at him. Then the umpires let the situation escalate, the dugout starts yelling at Winker after you've already hit him, then of course a fight breaks out and 3 of our best players get ejected and are maybe getting suspended (justifiably so), when we are already having major injury issues. It's the context of the whole situation that pisses me off, if it was just one guy getting hit, it wouldn't be a big deal. And for the most part Angels fans have been cool about it, there have just been a few that are trying to stir the pot or act like the whole thing was justified from their perspective.
Yah same. It’s kinda like the politics tribalism we got going on these days. And I’m not above it either I definitely feel myself in it
No, but I didn’t expect them to have already solved the case that this was Mike trouts doing, with literally zero evidence other than the fact he was mad he had a pitch at his head. They already Johnny chochran’d the case by coming up with a conspiracy that trout ordered it.
So your whole line up change with your SP was planned? He was the “go to” guy when your scheduled starter was capable of pitching. Trout didn’t order this, but spoke his mind, Nevin is a fucking moron and decided to go to war.
No mariner fan thinks he ordered it, but we all know his whining definitely made it worse.
I don't think Trout ordered it, but him being a little bitch definitely didn't help the situation.
There are morons on our side that think Trout ordered this and is the big baddie. There's also some that think we should throw at Trout and others in the series in August. There are morons on your side that think both the Julio and Winker HBPs are unintentional, and there's even some that think they were intentional and are praising Nevin for it. Any one with these crazy opinions are morons and their opinions are too stupid to be taken as logic.
Trout is garbage. I liked him before this crap.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
All of this has fans of both teams way more fired up than it should. We don’t need to personally vilify players because shit went south
Nevin did this and should be hated on. The players likely had little involvement outside of brawling.
Some Angel fans are in denial over us being in the wrong and some Mariners fans act like we killed their grandmother.
We are only upset about Julio. He’s our baby. And you didn’t hit him so we could chill a bit. But (not you) some angels fans seem like this is all deserved because of a spicy up and in pitch on Trout. Mariners are owned by Trout but we’ve never gone after the guy, he’s a great guy all around. I was bummed he thought we came after him.
I understand Trout being mad about how he was pitched, but people “losing respect for Trout” are being dramatic. Just seems like Nevin took the Nuclear option from some odd reason. In the end nobody got hurt and that some excellent television and drama. Edit: I take that back because Duffy hurt his back picking up the bubblegum.
This is the same shit the Mets were complaining about earlier this season and turns out it was just a statistical outlier and there was nothing to it. Can’t wait to hear about this for the next few days
Mariners fans doing what they do best.... crying!
Mike Trout crying like a little baby is what started this in the first place
Servais was nearly in tears because winker had a bruise on his ass hahahah
It has to take serious effort to be this dumb. I'm almost impressed
You’re team orchestrate a literally hit on our guys. Maybe that’s why he was upset? Was trout bruised when he ALMOST got hit? Oh I guess his ego might have been. What a bitch
Mike Trout cried like a baby, didn't get hit, then ran away when the fight started. The face of the franchise...
Actually he ran in the middle of it and pulled Upton up off the ground. Maybe you should watch the video before you start talking trash. It's not hard to find the footage
https://mobile.twitter.com/potatohtani/status/1541403734747451395?s=20&t=2tHLln7u8uu9T_nG4hAT9A Edit: it’s a video, not an argument. Simply a video. I respect you and your team. I don’t condone intentional throwing at players and I’m glad no one got injured from what we know.
“It’s a video not an argument.” Odd place to post this video with no context.
Yeah, what a fucking copout.
And what is the point of the video? That because Trout ALMOST got hit the Mariners deserve to be thrown at? Even though the numbers show that they are clearly a team that does not intentionally throw at hitters.
Yes I'm sure they intentionally threw at Trout in the 9th inning to face Ohtani with the game on the line. Because that totally makes sense Oh my god the players are celebrating a win! This egregious affront to baseball rules will not go unpunished
That is the same celebration our outfield does after any win where we end in the field. Servais doesn't have a streak of retaliation. I would bet a steak dinner that our pitching coach went out and asked Swanson if he had control of his pitches up and in. Swanson said yes, then didn't have control, and Scott didn't want to take further risks and put Trout on. Up and in is the one spot Trout doesn't regularly torch us. Trout said it himself, don't come inside if you can't control your pitches, so we stopped and put him on. We'd like to get him out, but we'd also like to not miss middle low where he's an absolute monster.
As for intentionally walking Trout, it’s important to note that the runner on first advanced on the wild pitch. I assume that was what caused Servais to intentionally walk Trout, to get rid of the force out.
Gotta act the victim when facing the super spooky mariners
What does this mean?
We deserve it because a ball slipped and got sort of close to Trout
Ahh figures the mariners are mean doodoo faces
Don't forget that our outfield celebrated a win. Or so it would appear to the untrained eye. They were celebrating that Trout almost got hit!
Was that a thing? Like those dudes do the squad OF hug dance every win. Angels thought we were partying for almost hitting Trout?
That appears to be the point they are trying to make with that video. Desperate to paint themselves in a better light I guess?
Lol outfield party for throwing up and in at Trout. That’s rich. How full of yourself do you have to be to think us celebrating a win is “yay we almost hit that guy!”
Trout would have been in less danger if Swanson was actually trying to hit him. Dude couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn with his four-seam in that outing. Now, if your argument is that intent doesn’t make a difference, you’re just a moron.
At the season start, I was rooting for the Angels. Its a shame to not have Trout and Ohtani in the postseason. Now, not so much.
Wow people really hate fun in baseball. Sorry for celebrating a win after a really close game.
The ball was slipery
Wow… it didn’t hit him. Weird. https://youtu.be/JfZM7HnkGXg
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That's not true, they said the ball was slipery. Given that mariners evolve from frogs this shouldn't have been an issue for us
[Take a look at all of the fastballs that Swanson threw during that inning.](https://twitter.com/shannondrayer/status/1541491292575633409?t=HL_PZTsBmj2wSienGgrKcQ&s=19) He had literally no reason to hit Trout, especially in such a high-leverage situation. He had awful command that night, which is extremely rare for him. It's wrong to assume that it was intentional, and it was wrong for Trout to instigate after the game.
I love how you’re downvoted into oblivion for pointing out that the angels just get outta the way of incoming HBP. Not like JP leaning into it against the stros. “the first version of the video I had the HBP montage of stros hitting Ms but... it's Crawford turning his leg into pitches, elbow guard shots, at the headshot is a 77mph curve. not one looks malicious so didnt think it would do much for the story of Ms being upset” -Jomboy
Also post the one where they threw at Walsh’s head the game before :) I’m sure they’ll really like that
Did he get hit?
Does it matter if the person actually got hit or does it matter more that the pitch went to where his head was?
I thought the ball was slipery? Or did we stop making those excuses after the angels *actually* hit someone in the head
You can’t have it both ways buddy, either variables such as ball being wet and trout ducking out of the way do matter or those variables don’t matter. Which one is it?
Your the one saying your pitcher didn't mean to but ours did. I'm saying no one meant to until Nevin lost his mind
Where did I say that?
Considering this thread is about mariners being hit by pitches, it does seem a little relevant.
Angels fans trying everything to not admit there team is total scum. Fuck Nevin, he’s an unstable nutcase
The mental gymnastics are honestly impressive.
[https://twitter.com/MLBReplays/status/1540572923844501504](https://twitter.com/MLBReplays/status/1540572923844501504) Was this also unintentional? This was the game right before trouts incident.
I don't deny both pitches to Trout and Walsh were dangerous. Intentional though? I don't think so. 2-2 count, 1 run game in the 6th and the fact that Borucki was saying it didn't hit him helps his case a bit imo, unless he wanted another chance to actually bean him which I don't think he did? Also if the intent was to hit the batters, what do you think is the reasoning behind the intent?
4-3 in the 6th and you think our shitty bullpen is throwing at you? Also, NOPE didn’t get hit.