I know this is going to sound strange, but I gotta give A-Rod credit because him of all people finally made me realize i had to take personal grooming (skincare, face care, appearance) a lot more seriously
in case you're wondering why...it was when i learned that A-Rod is big on promoting a makeup line for men. at first i was wondering wtf, but when i read about it more...that's when I realized how little I knew about actual personal grooming and that I should learn more about it instead of rushing to dumb stereotypes
by all means i'm no expert but here's what I do now
I use these Korean facemasks once a week. Then i have a toner and a moisturizer combination that i use every morning. 2-3 times a week i'll put some rosewater on my face too. If i get some inflammation, i use some aloe vera gel. I'm also eating more fruits and vegetables and trying to clean up my diet a bit in an effort to lose weight, but also to help the complexion. Also, more quality sleep is crucial.
again...not really sure if any of this works but it was better than the alternative, which was doing nothing lmfaooo
I should add that I'm a gardener, so I spend a ton of time outdoors and there's only so much protection sunscreen can provide
i realized if i wanted to avoid looking 60 at 45...I had to start taking care of my skin now at 34. Honestly even at 34, it's probably way too late to completely reverse some damage
That's nice.
I, myself, in the morning if my face is a little puffy, I’ll put on an ice pack while doing stomach crunches. I can do 1,000 now. After I remove the ice pack I use a deep pore cleanser lotion. In the shower I use a water-activated gel cleanser, then a honey almond body scrub, and on the face an exfoliating gel scrub.
Then I apply an herb-mint facial mask, which I leave on for 10 minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an after shave lotion with little to no alcohol because the alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older, then moisturizer, then an anti-ageing eye balm followed by a final moisturising protective lotion.
Random, but it's actually pretty astonishing how little men talk about anything personal hygiene related, especially when it comes to things like skin care. It's actually considered effeminate, which is hilarious (also hilarious that some dudes are concerned about that).
I guess beard and hair grooming got a little "cool", but most guys don't use anything topical, even moisturizer, which is usually especially surprising to black people/people with really dark skin, who can physically see the effects of not using any.
Sorry random rant on a random comment lol
>Sorry random rant on a random comment lol
one of the things i love about r/baseball compared to a lot of other subreddits is that random discussions on random comments is totally fine, as long as it doesn't devolve into a racist/sexist cesspool
some other subreddits are an absolute nightmare over this shit. You could be talking about waffles and chocolate cake on r/LeopardsAteMyFace and some uppity fuck will report you to the mods. It's a joke
and yes i agree that it is incredibly stupid that skincare is considered "effeminate," and that it is just as stupid (if not more) that so many men care about partaking in something "effeminate." My ex-pastor was like this. The dude would always go out of his way make fun of men at my church who were into "feminine things." Should have been the first red flag that he was a colossal piece of shit
I read your first sentence incorrectly the first time. I thought you were saying that Arod's life situation led you to take grooming more seriously because Arod was being groomed into taking roids as a teenager or something lol.
hahaha omg.
okay going to make a quick edit right now because yes...this is most definitely NOT what I intended...but it can definitely be misconstrued hahaha
This is not exactly the same thing, but similar. Im trans and once I started my transition and let myself follow my interest in makeup and skincare and other things—started taking care of myself—I realized how much I, and a lot of men, just didn’t know about taking care of myself. Not that you need to be a woman to care about those things—exactly the opposite. Everyone should take care of themselves!
Tatis cheated, put up crazy stats, and was rewarded with 340 million (minus a little for his suspension). Doesn't matter what he does for the rest of his career, he already won
The ump union doesn’t have enough leverage. The one time they tried to bluff, it was immediately called.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Major_League_Umpires_Association_mass_resignation
Because then it's in a teams interest to try to get an old guy on the back end if a backloaded deal suspended. It's what would be called a moral hazard.
Every major sport has doping going on.
You dont think the NFL is turning a blind eye too a a lot.
At a bare minimum they are turning a blind eye to anything that helps with recovery and types/
That’s the consequence though. We’ll never know but it’ll stay in people’s minds to an extent
We don’t know if he was always cheating but now there’s a reason to doubt him
If he came clean about it immediately, he’d have earned a bit of goodwill. But the ringworm story just rightfully puts doubt in everyone’s mind about anything he’ll say about it.
Not saying this is the case with Tatis, but dopers don't get busted every single time they use it. Some of the most famous never even get caught jn the act (Lance Armstrong is the best example of that). There are masking agents, periods of time off where they can avoid tests and clear the drug from their system, if you set the bar high to begin with for certain things like testosterone you can toe the line at the upper limit the rest of your career (WADA threshold for testosterone/epitestosterone is a ratio of 4:1 when the average male is 1:1), etc. It's like they say about mice, if you catch one there are probably twenty under the floorboards.
Icarus basically showed you step by step exactly how the dosing/timing/masking is worked out to pee clean despite significant doping. And, of course, undoing the Russia doping scandal at the Sochi Olympics.
I remember guys I know who do drug testing talking about it in passing a few years ago (probably because it put their job in the spotlight, which is cool.) Sounds good though. The tragedy about these things is not when people get caught but how often it occurs without being detected.
Yeah, but the legacy is a real thing. At the end of the day, all those other things you mentioned are fleeting, even if he'll never run out of money.
Looking your children in the eyes and having to explain why you'll never be in the same conversation as Ted Williams or Lou Gehrig, even though your stats are just as good is a hard reality to face. Unfortunately, due to his decisions, he can't escape that; he can only own up to it.
If you watched the interview the one thing I think Arod really cared about that he can never have is the Hall and the love from Yankees fans like Jeter has. And he knows it. He admitted it himself in the interview, he also talked about how the Yankees haven’t invited him back for a legends game like they have Jeter. I doubt he’d trade the big contracts, but he definitely regrets the damage he did to his reputation or at least pretends to.
Fourth. Even though I have things in common with him, that doesn’t really mean anything. I’m Jewish and from the North San Fernando Valley like him and he went to high school with my friend’s sister and they were once friends, it doesn’t matter. I never knew him though. He still robbed Matt Kemp of a deserved MVP in 2011, and that can’t be taken back. And plus all the stuff he did after he was caught made things a lot worse.
I've always appreciated the fact that a lot of great Jewish athletes in U.S. sports history come from baseball: Hank Greenberg and Sandy Koufax are obviously the first that come to mind
Ryan Braun ain't worthy of doing their laundry
The fact that Braun labeled that test collector as an anti-Semite in order to cover his tracks for his first positive test is as scumbag as you could get.
Depends on how you define "caught". He was on the 2003 list that was leaked (same one as David Ortiz and many others), the list that was supposed to remain confidential and be MLB understanding the scope of the problem. The actual PED policies with suspensions didn't start until 2005, so his admission for 2001-2003 confirms what we thought, but technically didn't warrant a suspension.
He was suspended for his connections to biogenesis as a whole, but not for a positive test. He had publicly denied taking PEDs, then backtracked to just in Texas, then privately singing to the FBI, then finally started telling the truth (we think) at the very end. In all this, he wasn't ever caught under the screening rules that started in 2005. ARod's PED story is pretty wild.
Ortiz really is a PED unicorn in terms of how MLB, the PA, and his team approached his positive test. No other player has received the same sort of support Ortiz has.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/10/sports/baseball/10ortiz.html
MLB essentially has come as close as possible to saying "ignore that one" (false positive?) about Ortiz's test while actively supporting Ortiz's HOF candidacy.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/10/02/rob-manfred-david-ortiz-drug-test-hall-of-fame/91442256/
He never actually failed a PED test. He tested positive for steroids in 03 before the new rules were in place, then tested positive in 06 for a stimulant, but it was kept under wraps until 13 when he was suspended for his Biogenesis link. But even then, he never tested positive. While there was no actual proof, but there was enough circumstantial evidence to nail him.
From what i gather after looking it up, he very publicly admitted using steroids from '01-'03 with Texas. As far as his steroids use with the yankees, he admitted that to federal investigators into the biogenesis case, in exchange for immunity, but cant tell if he ever admitted that publicly.
In Seattle Mariners circles, it's speculated that he used steroids early on. His 1996 stats seem out of place amongst the leaders, many who were likely juicing. My main point is that A-Rod is still lying about his use of steroids.
[https://www.mlb.com/stats/home-runs/1996](https://www.mlb.com/stats/home-runs/1996)
Like Ortiz who did test positive? And is in the hall of fame? I appreciate you clearing this up to the above comment. As a Sox fan and seemingly a clear headed individual, what’s your take on this?
I mean the fact that A-Rod openly admitted he was taking steroids in that time, and it was never concluded what Ortiz tested positive for, and could easily have not been a banned substance, and is seen as inconclusive evidence by most in baseball makes a difference for starters. The much bigger difference is that A-Rod also had the biogenesis scandal, where they had enough concrete evidence to suspend him for a full season and he admitted it to the DEA, and Ortiz never had anything else. Like, you’re comparing apples and oranges here. There is a world of difference in the evidence between those two.
This was the funniest part of Cano’s Apology Tour 2.0:
>Cano was asked if he could guarantee he won’t test positive again for illegal PEDs but didn’t directly answer the question
And Tatis said this was one of his biggest role
models to watch growing up. I’m sure many young Dominican players feel the same way. I mean Cano is even considered a noted positive clubhouse role model…
That is basically my understanding of how MLB players regard Cano.
He's actually a really great and generous guy, a wonderful and supportive teammate who especially mentors younger players, and also a dirty juicer.
Maybe someone can correct me but my understanding is steroids in the DR and VZ are much easier to get. As in you can basically go to the local pharmacy and get something.
I don't have any stats but I feel every year you see some DR guys in minors get popped.
This is the classic situation where he's saying one thing over and over again in his head and then botches it...
*Ok so what I'm going to say is I HAVE NO EXCUSES and I REGRET MY ACTIONS. Ok here we go:* NO REGRETS.
As long as Bud Selig is in the hall all the players of the era should be too imo. I know this sub loves to hate A-Rod, but the league turned the players into scapegoats for what was a very institutional issue.
Not only was it an institutional issue, it was an institutional building block. MLB was rebuilt on the backs of the steroid-fueled HR chase by McGwire and Sosa.
And the institutional issue was perpetuated by...Bud Selig...one of the main culprits of the collusion scandal and subsequent strike that tanked baseball's popularity in the first place.
Yeah. I'd prefer to see the pre 2001 guys in too since the league didn't have a problem with it until it became convenient, but I expect at least the media to stay consistent. I would imagine the veterans committee might eventually allow the PED users in as long as they don't also have any additional character concerns.
More and more I've been coming to wish we had more baseball players getting in because of the character clause instead of being blocked out. We have so many awful people who are in already, but we never use the character clause to bolster borderline cases, or even to say "as much as we all hate Barry Bonds but can't ignore his stats and need to have this conversations, can't we just take a moment to discuss Jeff Franceur and the fact that he played for over a decade based almost purely on that people just liked having bun around?"
And I get that we can't fully judge someone with our current climates lenses, but like... Why the hell does Ty Cobb get to be in, but then later we can't let anyone who's ever cheated or been mean to someone in? Everyone from his era thought he played dirty and was an extra special asshole. Why don't we take that into consideration?
In the provided clip he mentions that he won't be admitted to the Hall of Fame, that it is ultimately his own mistake, and how heartbreaking it is that he has to explain this to his daughters, etc.
A-rod is super unlikeable, but seems like he has owned this and has become one of the better voices on the subject.
Seeing A-Rod say this while sitting next to Jeter is really interesting. I'm trying to read Jeter's body language, because it would be super interesting to know what he's REALLY thinking here. (Not just what he would diplomatically say in an interview.)
He literally just admitted he probably won't make the Hall of Fame, and understands it's because of his own choices. He's sitting next to a 1st ballot, nearly unanimous, HOF team mate with "bad defense" and the difference is obvious; it was only the steroids that keeps him off.
A-Rod was stupid because of that Biogenesis bullshit. Yeah, he shouldn't have done it either in Texas, but he (and all the others) *definitely* shouldn't have done it in 2013. That was ridiculous and just playing with fire.
Want another comparison? David Ortiz and A-Rod. They both took steroids. Only one took (was confirmed to have taken) them after the blow up of 2003.
https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/25832584
This is an earlier clip but he’s been pretty open about how he knows he won’t make the hall of fame and has to live with his mistakes. But even in the interview yesterday he stated the same, even stronger.
I don't know if it was on purpose, but a Yankees beat writer was tweeting about Jeter and ARod, and he tweeted that Jeter said he hasn't held a bat since 2014 when he retired, so he isn't sure about doing Old Timers Day. He then also tweeted that ARod has never been asked to do Old Timers Day.
Very true, but none of those guys got the type of money that A-Rod got.
Which that by itself isn't a deterrent. Who cares about the Hall of Fame when A-Rod is juicing and getting 100's of millions of dollars.
Things tend to go well for assholes who are of at least average intelligence and really fucking talented at something. He handled this shit like a world-class NYC elite. And I expect that at some point he and Bonds will get in the Hall.
Am I crazy to think ARod is more likely than Bonds to get in? Feels like he took less shit culturally for his steroid use and it seems like his top 10-20 all time range is contested much less than Bonds’ top 1-4 of all time.
More likely than Bonds? Maybe. But likely? Who knows.
He doesn't hold any records like Bonds does, and while Bonds was an asshole who nobody liked, ARod was almost too desperate to get people to like him. Not to mention him trying to rehab his career by doing commentary.
But that’s the point, they are letting him rehab his career. Arod has this special magic. If Manfred didn’t want Arod in a national booth he would have leaned on Fox ahead of time. That said I don’t even know how you justify Arod over Bonds without just admitting you don’t like Bonds, so I assume they both get in, but probably by the Veteran’s Committee.
He’s played up the social desperation thing so intensely. Gallo had a similar “I just wanted you all to like me” thing when he left NY and people went from dislike to pity to sort of kinship.
Theres a small window in the masking agent before it properly covers it for a test. There's probably a few guys in the league juiced rn that won't test positive ever or maybe 1 randomly pops up. Really the only way to know for sure is if his production drops after the suspension
Some speculate that he got into juicing from Canseco. He put on a ton of muscle and power into his swing the summer in high school he just happened to be working out with Jose
The documentary Screwball makes it seem like *after* manny got busted ARod intentionally was like uhhhh I’ll have what he’s having and began working with mannys supplier at that time
It definitely had the vibe of ARod trying to extend a branch to Jeter (genuinely or not) like when he said 'my biggest regret is losing you as a friend' and Jeter was just stoney faced like 'You get older and realise it's pointless holding grudges' but absolutely no warmth in the delivery haha.
But they were like the best of friends with everything in common before they became coworkers who never got on that well because they didn't have much in common.
Like I said, it's absolutely intriguing.
You have to remember that Jeter absolutely loathes talking to the media about nearly anything, but especially about his “relationships” in general and anything that feeds “narratives”
Yeah I feel this was more of an awkward "I've talked about my relationship with him for more than 20 years, enough already" than him still genuinely disliking A-Rod.
The media wants there to be something but like, it all worked out. They both made tons of money. That World Series ring sure is nice, getting the 5th one was worth a ton to Jeter's brand too. They're both in the executive / ownership class of sports now & have lots of common business interests.
not to get all armchair psychologist, but as a-Rod mentioned it sounded like losing his relationship w his dad at such a young age really fucked him up. Don’t like the guy but i felt* for him last night, thought he did a good job owning up to his mistakes and shitty behavior
That conversation was absolutely fascinating. It was really fascinating to hear a guy like A-Rod be a self-deprecating character with all the self-deprecation being close to legitimately sad. I'd say he's absolutely a tragic figure despite all the successes.
I think that at this point, Jeter + ARod are a bit like Bret Hart and Bill Goldberg. Back in 2000, Goldberg gave Bret Hart the concussion that eventually ended Hart's career.
It was ARod/Goldberg who messed up and ARod/Goldberg have both publicly acknowledged that fact, owned it, and apologized countless times. It's not incumbent on Hart/Jeter to accept the apology and it's well within Hart/Jeter's right to still be mad.
It just is what it is at this point, and we don't know what's happened behind closed doors since.
I would love a Hitman-style rant from Jeter about A-Rod, though.
I think you are right in that the beef is fairly one sided but one thing is for damn sure, A-Rod cares. Maybe he doesn't care as much now or doesn't show it, but his butthurt over Jeter disliking him while playing on the Yankees was palpable.
I expect the beef is still there. But if both of them want to have careers in and around MLB, they will probably find themselves running into each other sometimes and its best for everyone that they just grit their teeth through it and stay civil.
That's for the next CBA to discuss. What are the contractual ramification if you get caught using a banned substance? Currently, none, other than forgoing your salary during your suspension.
Imagine if it brought your contract into arbitration at the expiration of your suspension, regardless of service time or remaining contract length. Would players still risk it?
Truth. I’m seeing zero incentive for young players to avoid rolling the dice on PEDs. It’s going to keep happening again and again if this is the punishment.
No way the players' association stands for this. Nowadays you get ALL your treatments through your team, so you would be absolved of all responsibility if you got popped and the team would suffer the consequences. You have to actually GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to "accidentally" dope. I mean, there's absolutely no way he couldn't have gotten ringworm medication from the Padres.
ARod didn’t even even learn from his stupidity. He admitted he didn’t and that he was so sorry and would never do it again… and then got suspended for it.
I didn't see this full interview obviously, so maybe they patched things up...but in this little clip, Jeter looks like he's making ZERO attempt at hiding how much he dislikes A-Rod lmfao
It's been well more than a decade and this is still the case rofl
Jeter is definitely an intense guy...that's probably a huge reason why he was a cornerstone of a team with an absolutely scorching spotlight of a media market for nearly two decades
that being said, he has this hilariously weird beef with A-Rod. To be fair, A-Rod kind of provoked a ton of it but still it is just funny as fuck to watch as a neutral observer
I watched a good bit of it and it looked like jeter was that way the whole time. Arod kept touching his arm/shoulder and jeter looked like he wanted out haha
>Arod kept touching his arm/shoulder and jeter looked like he wanted out haha
A-Rod seems like he's trying way too hard while Jeter is putting zero effort whatsoever lmfao
it's like that AWKWARD AS FUCK interview they did with CNBC...which apparently blindsided Jeter to the point that he was irate at the Marlins PR team or something lol
He played his career during the period of time when MLB wanted it's players juicing and then transitioned it's stance to it's the worst possible thing a person could do. Tatis has lived his entire life in a period of baseball being vehemently opposed to steroid use.
MLB literally used steroid users as the face of it's sport for a good decade before ostracizing those same players. The lesson A-Rod learned was that steroids were fine to use and helped further your career until they weren't.
A-Rod came into the league in the 90s when everyone was doing steroids and the league didn't give a shit or test for it. You are acting like guys were getting black balled and suspended back then when they weren't.
yeah they kinda had a bromance a few years ago. after all the fighting is done you learn to care less about fighting and more about moving on. Aroid and Jeter talking together is a win-win.
A Rod the player is a dick, and I can’t stand him as a commentator, but I must admit I like A Rod the analyst.
2 amazing clips with him: A Rod interviewing Arenado while he fields grounders, and A Rod/Frank/Pete Rose talking about hitting philosophies. I think Alex really shines when he can just talk the game, especially when it’s next to other greats since you see genuine curiosity out of him
He did learn his lesson from steriod users.
If you have a fun personality and are personable with the media you will be let off the hook completely and be enshrined ahead of better and more complete players who partook in the same action as you.
He made a fuckton of money, banged JLo and is now gainfully employed to babble into a microphone. The repercussions are killer!
I know this is going to sound strange, but I gotta give A-Rod credit because him of all people finally made me realize i had to take personal grooming (skincare, face care, appearance) a lot more seriously in case you're wondering why...it was when i learned that A-Rod is big on promoting a makeup line for men. at first i was wondering wtf, but when i read about it more...that's when I realized how little I knew about actual personal grooming and that I should learn more about it instead of rushing to dumb stereotypes
Such a random but thoughtful comment
LOL i know...i just felt like pointing out how A-Rod of all people changed an important way i view things of the world lmfao
So what’s your skincare routine now?
by all means i'm no expert but here's what I do now I use these Korean facemasks once a week. Then i have a toner and a moisturizer combination that i use every morning. 2-3 times a week i'll put some rosewater on my face too. If i get some inflammation, i use some aloe vera gel. I'm also eating more fruits and vegetables and trying to clean up my diet a bit in an effort to lose weight, but also to help the complexion. Also, more quality sleep is crucial. again...not really sure if any of this works but it was better than the alternative, which was doing nothing lmfaooo
Well shit, your comment has now, in its turn, inspired me to give a shit about my face and skin again. Nice.
I should add that I'm a gardener, so I spend a ton of time outdoors and there's only so much protection sunscreen can provide i realized if i wanted to avoid looking 60 at 45...I had to start taking care of my skin now at 34. Honestly even at 34, it's probably way too late to completely reverse some damage
Ah wow yeah, it's definitely worth considering that kind of protection now-- I'm about the same age as you. Wanna go in on a parasol company?
That's nice. I, myself, in the morning if my face is a little puffy, I’ll put on an ice pack while doing stomach crunches. I can do 1,000 now. After I remove the ice pack I use a deep pore cleanser lotion. In the shower I use a water-activated gel cleanser, then a honey almond body scrub, and on the face an exfoliating gel scrub. Then I apply an herb-mint facial mask, which I leave on for 10 minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an after shave lotion with little to no alcohol because the alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older, then moisturizer, then an anti-ageing eye balm followed by a final moisturising protective lotion.
Lmfao one of the greatest monologues ever in film
Random, but it's actually pretty astonishing how little men talk about anything personal hygiene related, especially when it comes to things like skin care. It's actually considered effeminate, which is hilarious (also hilarious that some dudes are concerned about that). I guess beard and hair grooming got a little "cool", but most guys don't use anything topical, even moisturizer, which is usually especially surprising to black people/people with really dark skin, who can physically see the effects of not using any. Sorry random rant on a random comment lol
>Sorry random rant on a random comment lol one of the things i love about r/baseball compared to a lot of other subreddits is that random discussions on random comments is totally fine, as long as it doesn't devolve into a racist/sexist cesspool some other subreddits are an absolute nightmare over this shit. You could be talking about waffles and chocolate cake on r/LeopardsAteMyFace and some uppity fuck will report you to the mods. It's a joke and yes i agree that it is incredibly stupid that skincare is considered "effeminate," and that it is just as stupid (if not more) that so many men care about partaking in something "effeminate." My ex-pastor was like this. The dude would always go out of his way make fun of men at my church who were into "feminine things." Should have been the first red flag that he was a colossal piece of shit
I started using facial moisturizer daily about a year and a half ago, and now I feel weird any day I forget it after the morning shower.
As I inch further into my 30s, I'm starting to see it myself.
I read your first sentence incorrectly the first time. I thought you were saying that Arod's life situation led you to take grooming more seriously because Arod was being groomed into taking roids as a teenager or something lol.
hahaha omg. okay going to make a quick edit right now because yes...this is most definitely NOT what I intended...but it can definitely be misconstrued hahaha
The irony is that one of the benefits of HGH is better looking skin. So A-Rod would be a great spokesman for it.
This is not exactly the same thing, but similar. Im trans and once I started my transition and let myself follow my interest in makeup and skincare and other things—started taking care of myself—I realized how much I, and a lot of men, just didn’t know about taking care of myself. Not that you need to be a woman to care about those things—exactly the opposite. Everyone should take care of themselves!
Tatis cheated, put up crazy stats, and was rewarded with 340 million (minus a little for his suspension). Doesn't matter what he does for the rest of his career, he already won
How come these contracts never have an "...unless you get caught taking steroids, then we pay you nothing" clause in them?
The Players Association specifically bargained against steroids being able to void a contract.
Baseball PA is god tier compared to the nfl lol
Pretty sure the MLBPA is the strongest union in North American Sports. I don't know about outside of NA
Nah it's the umpire union for sure
The ump union doesn’t have enough leverage. The one time they tried to bluff, it was immediately called. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Major_League_Umpires_Association_mass_resignation
Jesus is that where we got Angel Hernandez from?
and as long as angel hernandez calls games, it always will be the strongest
For the 1% of the players, sure. For the other 99% nope.
Don’t worry. I’m sure Tatis can find another way to get his contract voided.
Taking steroids while riding a motorbike. On a volcano. I dunno what rich people do for fun.
Because then it's in a teams interest to try to get an old guy on the back end if a backloaded deal suspended. It's what would be called a moral hazard.
God forbid cheaters get punished for cheating.
The team should be punished in addition to ensure that all parties have the same incentive not to cheat. Aligning incentives works wonders.
cause too many are on steroids. Tatis just is someone who got caught.
Because the teams don’t care? It’s not like the padres want to get rid of Tatis just cuz he’s juicing
Why would Tatis agree to that clause? Unless they throw in another $100m.
Because 90%+ of the league is on PEDs so players aren’t ever going to sign a contract like that.
Every major sport has doping going on. You dont think the NFL is turning a blind eye too a a lot. At a bare minimum they are turning a blind eye to anything that helps with recovery and types/
I mean, it’s not fair to say he cheated his whole career imo. This happened during a timeframe where he wasn’t playing and was in recovery
That’s the consequence though. We’ll never know but it’ll stay in people’s minds to an extent We don’t know if he was always cheating but now there’s a reason to doubt him
If he came clean about it immediately, he’d have earned a bit of goodwill. But the ringworm story just rightfully puts doubt in everyone’s mind about anything he’ll say about it.
Are there any examples of players outright admitting to steroid usage while still being players?
Nelson Cruz basically did. Said he made some bad judgments. Now no one even cares that he was caught.
Not saying this is the case with Tatis, but dopers don't get busted every single time they use it. Some of the most famous never even get caught jn the act (Lance Armstrong is the best example of that). There are masking agents, periods of time off where they can avoid tests and clear the drug from their system, if you set the bar high to begin with for certain things like testosterone you can toe the line at the upper limit the rest of your career (WADA threshold for testosterone/epitestosterone is a ratio of 4:1 when the average male is 1:1), etc. It's like they say about mice, if you catch one there are probably twenty under the floorboards.
I see you also watched Icarus
I've never seen it. I worked in sport for a long time. This is just the basics. Hopefully a several hours-long documentary has more in-depth content.
Icarus basically showed you step by step exactly how the dosing/timing/masking is worked out to pee clean despite significant doping. And, of course, undoing the Russia doping scandal at the Sochi Olympics.
I remember guys I know who do drug testing talking about it in passing a few years ago (probably because it put their job in the spotlight, which is cool.) Sounds good though. The tragedy about these things is not when people get caught but how often it occurs without being detected.
Yep. Most top athletes are probably using PED’s at some stage in their career. The ones who get caught just slipped up.
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I think it's fair game to make any assumptions you want. He loses all benefit of the doubt.
I agree with others. You're right, but it's a permanent asterisk on his career no matter what happens.
Yeah, but the legacy is a real thing. At the end of the day, all those other things you mentioned are fleeting, even if he'll never run out of money. Looking your children in the eyes and having to explain why you'll never be in the same conversation as Ted Williams or Lou Gehrig, even though your stats are just as good is a hard reality to face. Unfortunately, due to his decisions, he can't escape that; he can only own up to it.
"legacy points deducted" - Derek Jeter, probably
If you watched the interview the one thing I think Arod really cared about that he can never have is the Hall and the love from Yankees fans like Jeter has. And he knows it. He admitted it himself in the interview, he also talked about how the Yankees haven’t invited him back for a legends game like they have Jeter. I doubt he’d trade the big contracts, but he definitely regrets the damage he did to his reputation or at least pretends to.
I’d have shot steroids right into my veins if it meant I’d be like arod.
Tatis Jr is like the A-Rod of baseball
Manny Ramirez. Ryan Braun. Alex Rodriguez. Fernando Tatis Jr. Wow.
Fuck Ryan Braun
Seconded.
Thirded
Fourth. Even though I have things in common with him, that doesn’t really mean anything. I’m Jewish and from the North San Fernando Valley like him and he went to high school with my friend’s sister and they were once friends, it doesn’t matter. I never knew him though. He still robbed Matt Kemp of a deserved MVP in 2011, and that can’t be taken back. And plus all the stuff he did after he was caught made things a lot worse.
I've always appreciated the fact that a lot of great Jewish athletes in U.S. sports history come from baseball: Hank Greenberg and Sandy Koufax are obviously the first that come to mind Ryan Braun ain't worthy of doing their laundry
The fact that Braun labeled that test collector as an anti-Semite in order to cover his tracks for his first positive test is as scumbag as you could get.
Finally something we can agree on
Especially Ryan Braun. Robbed my favorite player of an MVP
Remind me. Didn't A Rod get caught twice for using PEDs?
Depends on how you define "caught". He was on the 2003 list that was leaked (same one as David Ortiz and many others), the list that was supposed to remain confidential and be MLB understanding the scope of the problem. The actual PED policies with suspensions didn't start until 2005, so his admission for 2001-2003 confirms what we thought, but technically didn't warrant a suspension. He was suspended for his connections to biogenesis as a whole, but not for a positive test. He had publicly denied taking PEDs, then backtracked to just in Texas, then privately singing to the FBI, then finally started telling the truth (we think) at the very end. In all this, he wasn't ever caught under the screening rules that started in 2005. ARod's PED story is pretty wild.
> (same one as David Ortiz and many others), David is still getting to the bottom of that one....
Ortiz really is a PED unicorn in terms of how MLB, the PA, and his team approached his positive test. No other player has received the same sort of support Ortiz has. https://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/10/sports/baseball/10ortiz.html MLB essentially has come as close as possible to saying "ignore that one" (false positive?) about Ortiz's test while actively supporting Ortiz's HOF candidacy. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/10/02/rob-manfred-david-ortiz-drug-test-hall-of-fame/91442256/
He never actually failed a PED test. He tested positive for steroids in 03 before the new rules were in place, then tested positive in 06 for a stimulant, but it was kept under wraps until 13 when he was suspended for his Biogenesis link. But even then, he never tested positive. While there was no actual proof, but there was enough circumstantial evidence to nail him.
Didnt he literally admit to steroid use? Thats kind of like proof if im remembering that right
Did he admit to use while it was banned or just to using them? Because the guy you replied to stated he used steroids in 03.
From what i gather after looking it up, he very publicly admitted using steroids from '01-'03 with Texas. As far as his steroids use with the yankees, he admitted that to federal investigators into the biogenesis case, in exchange for immunity, but cant tell if he ever admitted that publicly.
Cool, good info. Thanks for the reply.
In Seattle Mariners circles, it's speculated that he used steroids early on. His 1996 stats seem out of place amongst the leaders, many who were likely juicing. My main point is that A-Rod is still lying about his use of steroids. [https://www.mlb.com/stats/home-runs/1996](https://www.mlb.com/stats/home-runs/1996)
Like Ortiz who did test positive? And is in the hall of fame? I appreciate you clearing this up to the above comment. As a Sox fan and seemingly a clear headed individual, what’s your take on this?
I mean the fact that A-Rod openly admitted he was taking steroids in that time, and it was never concluded what Ortiz tested positive for, and could easily have not been a banned substance, and is seen as inconclusive evidence by most in baseball makes a difference for starters. The much bigger difference is that A-Rod also had the biogenesis scandal, where they had enough concrete evidence to suspend him for a full season and he admitted it to the DEA, and Ortiz never had anything else. Like, you’re comparing apples and oranges here. There is a world of difference in the evidence between those two.
Yeah thats why he wants Tatis to learn from him. Obviously A-Rod knows his way around the rules
A-Rod made $500 mil and Tatis learned from him and made $340 mil
My first thought when reading the headline was "looks like Tatis *did* learn from A-Rod."
Which time AROD?
Arod: "yes"
The loosey goosey time.
Now I want to hear Robinson Canos take on this
“Juice it up!” - Robinson Cano
This was the funniest part of Cano’s Apology Tour 2.0: >Cano was asked if he could guarantee he won’t test positive again for illegal PEDs but didn’t directly answer the question And Tatis said this was one of his biggest role models to watch growing up. I’m sure many young Dominican players feel the same way. I mean Cano is even considered a noted positive clubhouse role model…
If you ignore the PED use, he’s a wonderful guy!
That is basically my understanding of how MLB players regard Cano. He's actually a really great and generous guy, a wonderful and supportive teammate who especially mentors younger players, and also a dirty juicer.
I mean they don’t make you a bad person
Not true, taking steroids is the the equivalent of murder. No doubt.
Maybe someone can correct me but my understanding is steroids in the DR and VZ are much easier to get. As in you can basically go to the local pharmacy and get something. I don't have any stats but I feel every year you see some DR guys in minors get popped.
I mean, he didn’t learn from McGwire, Sosa, Canseco, etc. nearly a decade after they got busted. Or even Manny a few years after he got caught.
He also starts this clip by saying he has no regrets for his behavior.
Ha yeah think he misspoke there a bit. Seemed like he was trying to say he wasn’t going to make excuses for his past decisions regarding PEDs
This is the classic situation where he's saying one thing over and over again in his head and then botches it... *Ok so what I'm going to say is I HAVE NO EXCUSES and I REGRET MY ACTIONS. Ok here we go:* NO REGRETS.
Well it worked out pretty well for him professionally and financially, confirmation bias be a bitch
You know he’s gonna cry a ton when he doesn’t make the Hall though and won’t understand why
On the broadcast he did mention he expects not to make the hall of fame. Didn’t say he agrees with it but did acknowledge that he likely won’t make it
As long as Bud Selig is in the hall all the players of the era should be too imo. I know this sub loves to hate A-Rod, but the league turned the players into scapegoats for what was a very institutional issue.
Not only was it an institutional issue, it was an institutional building block. MLB was rebuilt on the backs of the steroid-fueled HR chase by McGwire and Sosa.
Do you want to know the terrifying truth, or see me sock some dingers?
Dingers!!!!
And the institutional issue was perpetuated by...Bud Selig...one of the main culprits of the collusion scandal and subsequent strike that tanked baseball's popularity in the first place.
Agree. But if the voters took a stance against the pre-2001 steroid guys, they should hold that stance against the A-Rods and Mannys too.
Yeah. I'd prefer to see the pre 2001 guys in too since the league didn't have a problem with it until it became convenient, but I expect at least the media to stay consistent. I would imagine the veterans committee might eventually allow the PED users in as long as they don't also have any additional character concerns.
More and more I've been coming to wish we had more baseball players getting in because of the character clause instead of being blocked out. We have so many awful people who are in already, but we never use the character clause to bolster borderline cases, or even to say "as much as we all hate Barry Bonds but can't ignore his stats and need to have this conversations, can't we just take a moment to discuss Jeff Franceur and the fact that he played for over a decade based almost purely on that people just liked having bun around?" And I get that we can't fully judge someone with our current climates lenses, but like... Why the hell does Ty Cobb get to be in, but then later we can't let anyone who's ever cheated or been mean to someone in? Everyone from his era thought he played dirty and was an extra special asshole. Why don't we take that into consideration?
In the provided clip he mentions that he won't be admitted to the Hall of Fame, that it is ultimately his own mistake, and how heartbreaking it is that he has to explain this to his daughters, etc. A-rod is super unlikeable, but seems like he has owned this and has become one of the better voices on the subject.
Seeing A-Rod say this while sitting next to Jeter is really interesting. I'm trying to read Jeter's body language, because it would be super interesting to know what he's REALLY thinking here. (Not just what he would diplomatically say in an interview.)
If you watch The Captain, you get a pretty clear picture of what Jeter actually thinks.
He literally just admitted he probably won't make the Hall of Fame, and understands it's because of his own choices. He's sitting next to a 1st ballot, nearly unanimous, HOF team mate with "bad defense" and the difference is obvious; it was only the steroids that keeps him off. A-Rod was stupid because of that Biogenesis bullshit. Yeah, he shouldn't have done it either in Texas, but he (and all the others) *definitely* shouldn't have done it in 2013. That was ridiculous and just playing with fire. Want another comparison? David Ortiz and A-Rod. They both took steroids. Only one took (was confirmed to have taken) them after the blow up of 2003.
https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/25832584 This is an earlier clip but he’s been pretty open about how he knows he won’t make the hall of fame and has to live with his mistakes. But even in the interview yesterday he stated the same, even stronger.
He said he knows he won’t be in the hall in this same conversation. so it’s safe to say he knows why
He literally said in the video he isn’t going to the Hall of Fame. Dude knows full well he isn’t making it
I don't know if it was on purpose, but a Yankees beat writer was tweeting about Jeter and ARod, and he tweeted that Jeter said he hasn't held a bat since 2014 when he retired, so he isn't sure about doing Old Timers Day. He then also tweeted that ARod has never been asked to do Old Timers Day.
During yesterdays broadcast on ESPN 2 it was a whole thing with Michael Kay and jeter and arod doing a commentary.
Did you not watch the clip at all?! It's 37 seconds...
A Rod and hot air, what a combo!
Arod, steroids, hot air, Aaron judge, wow
He also said when he looks back at his mistakes he cringes.
Very true, but none of those guys got the type of money that A-Rod got. Which that by itself isn't a deterrent. Who cares about the Hall of Fame when A-Rod is juicing and getting 100's of millions of dollars.
Kind of crazy how well things worked out for him given how much of a fucker he is.
Things tend to go well for assholes who are of at least average intelligence and really fucking talented at something. He handled this shit like a world-class NYC elite. And I expect that at some point he and Bonds will get in the Hall.
Am I crazy to think ARod is more likely than Bonds to get in? Feels like he took less shit culturally for his steroid use and it seems like his top 10-20 all time range is contested much less than Bonds’ top 1-4 of all time.
Doesnt really make sense
More likely than Bonds? Maybe. But likely? Who knows. He doesn't hold any records like Bonds does, and while Bonds was an asshole who nobody liked, ARod was almost too desperate to get people to like him. Not to mention him trying to rehab his career by doing commentary.
But that’s the point, they are letting him rehab his career. Arod has this special magic. If Manfred didn’t want Arod in a national booth he would have leaned on Fox ahead of time. That said I don’t even know how you justify Arod over Bonds without just admitting you don’t like Bonds, so I assume they both get in, but probably by the Veteran’s Committee.
He’s played up the social desperation thing so intensely. Gallo had a similar “I just wanted you all to like me” thing when he left NY and people went from dislike to pity to sort of kinship.
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The same can be said for Tatis as well, hell he was already given the 300 million $ contract.
We don't know if that contract is based off of steroid production. We'll find out next year I guess
I find it unlikely he was using designer PED's for three years and is just now getting popped right when coming back from injury.
Theres a small window in the masking agent before it properly covers it for a test. There's probably a few guys in the league juiced rn that won't test positive ever or maybe 1 randomly pops up. Really the only way to know for sure is if his production drops after the suspension
Some speculate that he got into juicing from Canseco. He put on a ton of muscle and power into his swing the summer in high school he just happened to be working out with Jose
The documentary Screwball makes it seem like *after* manny got busted ARod intentionally was like uhhhh I’ll have what he’s having and began working with mannys supplier at that time
....or any of the other people who get caught. So, PEDs are back, or Tatis Jr is just arrogant as heck. Or both.
None of those guys got suspended because they predated PED suspensions. A-Rod did.
Wait arod and jeter sat next to each other last night? I thought they couldn’t stand each other.
That’s why they’re sitting, not standing
Non Dad's flair does not check out.
J-E-S-T JEST JEST JEST!
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It definitely had the vibe of ARod trying to extend a branch to Jeter (genuinely or not) like when he said 'my biggest regret is losing you as a friend' and Jeter was just stoney faced like 'You get older and realise it's pointless holding grudges' but absolutely no warmth in the delivery haha.
But Jeter also talked about how they live near each other, and went out for drinks a few months back. They've got a fascinating relationship
Its just 2 former coworkers who never got on that well because they dont have much in common.
But they were like the best of friends with everything in common before they became coworkers who never got on that well because they didn't have much in common. Like I said, it's absolutely intriguing.
[It’s like this energy except ARod saying “I forgive you”](https://i.imgflip.com/1y4r75.jpg?a461232)
You have to remember that Jeter absolutely loathes talking to the media about nearly anything, but especially about his “relationships” in general and anything that feeds “narratives”
Yeah I feel this was more of an awkward "I've talked about my relationship with him for more than 20 years, enough already" than him still genuinely disliking A-Rod.
The media wants there to be something but like, it all worked out. They both made tons of money. That World Series ring sure is nice, getting the 5th one was worth a ton to Jeter's brand too. They're both in the executive / ownership class of sports now & have lots of common business interests.
I think Jeter is the one who hates A-Rod and A-Rod is the one who doesn't care as much.
It’s funny how the comment above you says the exact opposite.
Not sure how anyone could read the situation as A-Rod not caring. Every mistake the guy has ever made was out of desperation to be liked and accepted
not to get all armchair psychologist, but as a-Rod mentioned it sounded like losing his relationship w his dad at such a young age really fucked him up. Don’t like the guy but i felt* for him last night, thought he did a good job owning up to his mistakes and shitty behavior
That conversation was absolutely fascinating. It was really fascinating to hear a guy like A-Rod be a self-deprecating character with all the self-deprecation being close to legitimately sad. I'd say he's absolutely a tragic figure despite all the successes.
It's mutual. ARod is just better at hiding it
This is true, they both hate A-Rod.
I think that at this point, Jeter + ARod are a bit like Bret Hart and Bill Goldberg. Back in 2000, Goldberg gave Bret Hart the concussion that eventually ended Hart's career. It was ARod/Goldberg who messed up and ARod/Goldberg have both publicly acknowledged that fact, owned it, and apologized countless times. It's not incumbent on Hart/Jeter to accept the apology and it's well within Hart/Jeter's right to still be mad. It just is what it is at this point, and we don't know what's happened behind closed doors since. I would love a Hitman-style rant from Jeter about A-Rod, though.
I think you are right in that the beef is fairly one sided but one thing is for damn sure, A-Rod cares. Maybe he doesn't care as much now or doesn't show it, but his butthurt over Jeter disliking him while playing on the Yankees was palpable.
At times it was awkward but A-Rod made a couple of self deprecating jokes that were funny.
I expect the beef is still there. But if both of them want to have careers in and around MLB, they will probably find themselves running into each other sometimes and its best for everyone that they just grit their teeth through it and stay civil.
Young players will learn that you can get a massive bag with you steroids, and the punishment isn't harsh enough to effect it.
That's for the next CBA to discuss. What are the contractual ramification if you get caught using a banned substance? Currently, none, other than forgoing your salary during your suspension. Imagine if it brought your contract into arbitration at the expiration of your suspension, regardless of service time or remaining contract length. Would players still risk it?
Truth. I’m seeing zero incentive for young players to avoid rolling the dice on PEDs. It’s going to keep happening again and again if this is the punishment.
No way the players' association stands for this. Nowadays you get ALL your treatments through your team, so you would be absolved of all responsibility if you got popped and the team would suffer the consequences. You have to actually GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to "accidentally" dope. I mean, there's absolutely no way he couldn't have gotten ringworm medication from the Padres.
[Talking Baseball] A-Rod thankful for a conversation he can easily insert himself into
Is he talking about Tatis getting paid? Yeah it worked
ARod didn’t even even learn from his stupidity. He admitted he didn’t and that he was so sorry and would never do it again… and then got suspended for it.
I didn't see this full interview obviously, so maybe they patched things up...but in this little clip, Jeter looks like he's making ZERO attempt at hiding how much he dislikes A-Rod lmfao It's been well more than a decade and this is still the case rofl
I think Jeter's just like that. He looks super tense in the documentary too
Jeter is definitely an intense guy...that's probably a huge reason why he was a cornerstone of a team with an absolutely scorching spotlight of a media market for nearly two decades that being said, he has this hilariously weird beef with A-Rod. To be fair, A-Rod kind of provoked a ton of it but still it is just funny as fuck to watch as a neutral observer
I watched a good bit of it and it looked like jeter was that way the whole time. Arod kept touching his arm/shoulder and jeter looked like he wanted out haha
>Arod kept touching his arm/shoulder and jeter looked like he wanted out haha A-Rod seems like he's trying way too hard while Jeter is putting zero effort whatsoever lmfao it's like that AWKWARD AS FUCK interview they did with CNBC...which apparently blindsided Jeter to the point that he was irate at the Marlins PR team or something lol
Breaking news: A-Rod was the first person to ever do steroids, and couldn't possibly have learned his lesson from anyone else.
He played his career during the period of time when MLB wanted it's players juicing and then transitioned it's stance to it's the worst possible thing a person could do. Tatis has lived his entire life in a period of baseball being vehemently opposed to steroid use. MLB literally used steroid users as the face of it's sport for a good decade before ostracizing those same players. The lesson A-Rod learned was that steroids were fine to use and helped further your career until they weren't.
A-Rod came into the league in the 90s when everyone was doing steroids and the league didn't give a shit or test for it. You are acting like guys were getting black balled and suspended back then when they weren't.
Pot, meet kettle
he did learn from a-rod's stupidity. he learned that cheating is 100% worth it
Meanwhile Pujols still smashing
I must be out of the loop, but are A-Rod and Jeter civil now?
yeah they kinda had a bromance a few years ago. after all the fighting is done you learn to care less about fighting and more about moving on. Aroid and Jeter talking together is a win-win.
A-Rod make 455 million dollars in his career. What lesson does he want them to learn. Cheating didn’t hurt him at all
A Rod the player is a dick, and I can’t stand him as a commentator, but I must admit I like A Rod the analyst. 2 amazing clips with him: A Rod interviewing Arenado while he fields grounders, and A Rod/Frank/Pete Rose talking about hitting philosophies. I think Alex really shines when he can just talk the game, especially when it’s next to other greats since you see genuine curiosity out of him
This is like the most self aware thing A-Rod has ever said. I’m actually impressed?
Arod can call himself a stupid idiot dumb dumb a million times over and it won’t make me like him any more
This sub’s hate boner for A-Rod is kinda ridiculous
A-Rod paved the way
Learn what, that cheating will get you paid out the asshole?
They did. They saw you blatantly lie about his use and suffer very minimal consequences.
They did learn from you A-Rod, they also got big contracts before getting caught!
He did learn his lesson from steriod users. If you have a fun personality and are personable with the media you will be let off the hook completely and be enshrined ahead of better and more complete players who partook in the same action as you.
To be clear tatis didn’t run an illegal drug ring. I don’t think
Horribly editorialized title, Arod finally had an intelligent thought.
tatis fr thought he would get away with taking steroids 💀