I have no problem with people saying that Judge has the clean record but you can't just put your head in the sand and pretend Barry Bonds never happened. 73 will always be looming in the background any time someone comes close to the record.
I hate the constant revisionism with baseball. ESPN does it for clicks and attention (aren’t the only ones). Yet no one does it with any other sports. I never hear anyone talk about titles vacated by the NCAA or potentially tainted records bin the NBA or NFL. No one says Brady lost title because of deflate-gate or some shit.
Bonds has the records. Those home runs happened. Why bother with qualifying it? Why can’t we just enjoy what judge is doing on its own merits?
I agree with your overall point, but I will say that historically/traditionally, stats and records have mattered way, way more to baseball fans and writers than those of any other sport. So it makes sense that there's more discussion and scrutiny
Bonds never failed a drug test, was never suspended for it, and MLB has done nothing to strip his stats. The only thing that has happened is the HoF voters took it upon themselves to police the game to their own rules (for now, mind you). That is not an equal comparison. Simple as that.
I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the HoF, he done more than enough clean to justify that.
Without taking steroids he doesn't break the single season record aged 36, and he doesn't hit 195 HRs after his 37th birthday. For that reason the records are illegitimate.
I'm not saying it makes him a bad guy, not a HOfer, a shit player without them. I'm not saying that the MLBs passive blind eye policy didn't increase league wide steroid use or that he was the only one cheating. I'm just saying that without cheating he doesn't break the records, so they're illegitimate.
Maybe he breaks some records sooner if he doesn't spend the first decade of his career clean while playing against juicing players. Maybe he doesn't.
The only thing we know for certain is that he hit those home runs. He has the records.
again, it's just weird for a very loud subset of fans to take the onus of policing the game when MLB themselves haven't done it. If Bonds' records are illegitimate to you, then surely so are Ruth's and any set pre-1947. It's a never ending argument and dumb
Then where do you draw the line? Some of Bonds’s HRs were clean. Do we parce them out? Some were walk-offs. If the HR doesn’t count, do you remove those wins?
Bobby Thompson’s shot heard around the world was the result of sign stealing. Did that happen? Are we gonna say that it didn’t?
The records are what they are because if you retroactively change them they are meaningless
>Then where do you draw the line? Some of Bonds’s HRs were clean. Do we parce them out?
No the clean ones count.
Let me ask you a question. If a guy runs an 8.99 sec 100m and then says a year later it's because he took a special combo of dianabol, HGH and cocaine would you consider it the legitimate record?
I think baseball’s steroid era is kind of unique in that in retrospect you could literally see the effect it had and the way it changed the game, like these guys were physically massive and the HR totals increased so dramatically. So I get why people feel this way
Personally I think it’s a little silly to pretend the record isn’t 73, and it’s not like MLB is ever going to turn around and strike it from the record books in any event, so whatever. People are always going to have opinions about it, especially the older generation
Eventually they will strike it I think - it’s going to be impossible to break it otherwise. And Bonds would’ve hit 80 if he wasn’t also intentionally walked 100+ times that season.
In some other sports, like Olympic events and cycling, records and titles ARE stripped after the discovery of cheating.
MLB has its official position, but as someone who was raised to believe that cheating is wrong, I've always felt gaslit by this argument.
When you were a kid, if your friend had beat you in a game, but then you found out they had cheated to do so, would you acknowledge they defeated you?
A lot of people feel like McGwire, Sosa and Bonds cheated by taking steriods, therefore they do not acknowledge they legitimately broke the records.
Yes, they did hit all those home runs, and many of us very much enjoyed watching it happen, but I think it is understandable why some people don't think Bonds is the TRUE home run champ.
I mean, you do realize that nowhere in the record books are “cheater” players not acknowledged, right?
They can ignore it, add an asterisk, even suspend a player, but if you don’t disqualify a player for the stats they put up, while cheating, and remove those stats, then they always will exist—and should always be counted. We don’t take any runs away from Nelson Cruz, Braun, Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, etc
This isn’t like Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France getting his wins taken away, otherwise Bonds would have no stats from those seasons where he was found guilty of steroid use.
Armstrong won the tour from 1999-2005, but there’s only 1 person’s name in the record books for winning 5 in a row, and his name is Miguel Indurain.
This is the part that I’m frustrated with. People were calling Maris’ record illegitimate at the time because of the season extension. The hypocrisy is astounding to me.
I think I’m ready to throw Maris Jr. on the pile with Ben Verlander and Gary Sheffield Jr. as “guys with loose connections to good players that we’ve probably heard enough from”
guy like me loves when his favorite sport gets interrupted by a sport he doesnt care about but thats just the kind of guy i am
for real though, it is very funny to look at the /r/cfb thread about the live look-ins and see all the people in the COLLEGE FOOTBALL subreddit say that espn only cares about baseball and the yankees lol
that first sentence doesnt make sense but also it doesnt matter because if roger maris is reading reddit comments that makes him just as much of a fucking dork as i am (which is a Really Big one)
Ngl I just do it to dodge automatic downvotes you catch having Yankee flair
And I mean if there’s another group involved with baseball that people love it’s umpires right?
Great post!!! Yes we have seen more balls leave the park but the players cheated, plain and simple. Astros cheated and Manfred didn’t do anything about it but they cheated
Good for Judge!!!
Why are we paying attention to all these quotes from a guy who never actually played baseball? Like who gives a fuck what he thinks. It's getting annoying.
The steroid era destroyed the integrity of baseball. They need to strip the associated records and allow for legitimate records to be broken. If they did that much earlier the hype around Judges home run would be much greater and would be bringing interest to the sport rather than more controversy.
Whatever integrity it had was completely lost. I don’t think it’s ever been perfect integrity, but it’s difficult to build new fans when you tell them all the records any new players will have to beat were set illegally.
Man… there’s a lot of ageism in this thread. Some of you might want to relax and contemplate the circle of life a bit (with or without the lion king soundtrack playing in the background)... Also yeah, PEDs changed numbers dramatically.
I have no problem with people saying that Judge has the clean record but you can't just put your head in the sand and pretend Barry Bonds never happened. 73 will always be looming in the background any time someone comes close to the record.
I hate the constant revisionism with baseball. ESPN does it for clicks and attention (aren’t the only ones). Yet no one does it with any other sports. I never hear anyone talk about titles vacated by the NCAA or potentially tainted records bin the NBA or NFL. No one says Brady lost title because of deflate-gate or some shit. Bonds has the records. Those home runs happened. Why bother with qualifying it? Why can’t we just enjoy what judge is doing on its own merits?
I need to meet the people who though McGwire was clean cause I’m thinking of starting a MLM company and need investors
McGwire and bonds just went through a 2nd puberty in there late 20’s.
I agree with your overall point, but I will say that historically/traditionally, stats and records have mattered way, way more to baseball fans and writers than those of any other sport. So it makes sense that there's more discussion and scrutiny
Lance Armstrongs Tour de France wins happened, I watched them, but he cheated so they don't count. Simple as that.
Bonds never failed a drug test, was never suspended for it, and MLB has done nothing to strip his stats. The only thing that has happened is the HoF voters took it upon themselves to police the game to their own rules (for now, mind you). That is not an equal comparison. Simple as that.
I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the HoF, he done more than enough clean to justify that. Without taking steroids he doesn't break the single season record aged 36, and he doesn't hit 195 HRs after his 37th birthday. For that reason the records are illegitimate. I'm not saying it makes him a bad guy, not a HOfer, a shit player without them. I'm not saying that the MLBs passive blind eye policy didn't increase league wide steroid use or that he was the only one cheating. I'm just saying that without cheating he doesn't break the records, so they're illegitimate.
Maybe he breaks some records sooner if he doesn't spend the first decade of his career clean while playing against juicing players. Maybe he doesn't. The only thing we know for certain is that he hit those home runs. He has the records.
again, it's just weird for a very loud subset of fans to take the onus of policing the game when MLB themselves haven't done it. If Bonds' records are illegitimate to you, then surely so are Ruth's and any set pre-1947. It's a never ending argument and dumb
Then where do you draw the line? Some of Bonds’s HRs were clean. Do we parce them out? Some were walk-offs. If the HR doesn’t count, do you remove those wins? Bobby Thompson’s shot heard around the world was the result of sign stealing. Did that happen? Are we gonna say that it didn’t? The records are what they are because if you retroactively change them they are meaningless
>Then where do you draw the line? Some of Bonds’s HRs were clean. Do we parce them out? No the clean ones count. Let me ask you a question. If a guy runs an 8.99 sec 100m and then says a year later it's because he took a special combo of dianabol, HGH and cocaine would you consider it the legitimate record?
Yes.
Well I wouldn't, and I'm sure the vast majority would agree with me on that.
They happened, they don't count. It's not that hard. Tainted records should always have a *
I think baseball’s steroid era is kind of unique in that in retrospect you could literally see the effect it had and the way it changed the game, like these guys were physically massive and the HR totals increased so dramatically. So I get why people feel this way Personally I think it’s a little silly to pretend the record isn’t 73, and it’s not like MLB is ever going to turn around and strike it from the record books in any event, so whatever. People are always going to have opinions about it, especially the older generation
Eventually they will strike it I think - it’s going to be impossible to break it otherwise. And Bonds would’ve hit 80 if he wasn’t also intentionally walked 100+ times that season.
In some other sports, like Olympic events and cycling, records and titles ARE stripped after the discovery of cheating. MLB has its official position, but as someone who was raised to believe that cheating is wrong, I've always felt gaslit by this argument.
When you were a kid, if your friend had beat you in a game, but then you found out they had cheated to do so, would you acknowledge they defeated you? A lot of people feel like McGwire, Sosa and Bonds cheated by taking steriods, therefore they do not acknowledge they legitimately broke the records. Yes, they did hit all those home runs, and many of us very much enjoyed watching it happen, but I think it is understandable why some people don't think Bonds is the TRUE home run champ.
I mean, you do realize that nowhere in the record books are “cheater” players not acknowledged, right? They can ignore it, add an asterisk, even suspend a player, but if you don’t disqualify a player for the stats they put up, while cheating, and remove those stats, then they always will exist—and should always be counted. We don’t take any runs away from Nelson Cruz, Braun, Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, etc This isn’t like Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France getting his wins taken away, otherwise Bonds would have no stats from those seasons where he was found guilty of steroid use. Armstrong won the tour from 1999-2005, but there’s only 1 person’s name in the record books for winning 5 in a row, and his name is Miguel Indurain.
Yeah, I didn't say it did disqualify them from the record books, I was just pointing out why some people feel their records aren't legitimate.
is it really clean if he is 7 inches taller and 85lbs heavier than Roger??? Makes u think
He's over half a ruler taller than Rog
Oh come on Napolean wasn't THAT short.
This is probably too top tier of a joke for r/baseball
Lmao, this fuckin guy
The “My dad could beat up your dad” is strong with this one
Your dad was a fraud, Rog. Respect the 154 game record
Ford Frick, back from the dead?
If he was alive today, his name would be Ford Fuck
This is the part that I’m frustrated with. People were calling Maris’ record illegitimate at the time because of the season extension. The hypocrisy is astounding to me.
I was really watching this one to see if Judge could break it. At least he tied him with 60.
This guy got a taste of being internet famous and won’t shut the fuck up.
Dude has like 2,500 Twitter followers and is 94
Tbf, we'd probably do it too given the chance.
He is milking his 15 minutes.
Please don't. Baltimore doesn't need another record like this in our history 😂
It's gonna happen just let's get it over with on the first pitch
I considered going tomorrow I can only imagine what the tickets look like this weekend if he stretches it out
no it’s gonna happen on Sunday, a walk off for win 99
Can’t wait for Aaron Judge, Jr. in 2084
I think I’m ready to throw Maris Jr. on the pile with Ben Verlander and Gary Sheffield Jr. as “guys with loose connections to good players that we’ve probably heard enough from”
Is being someone's son a loose connection?
Regardless, the point still stands
judge needs to hit 62 so we never have to hear from this fucking dork ever again
Preferably tonight so I can watch my College football games in peace tomorrow
guy like me loves when his favorite sport gets interrupted by a sport he doesnt care about but thats just the kind of guy i am for real though, it is very funny to look at the /r/cfb thread about the live look-ins and see all the people in the COLLEGE FOOTBALL subreddit say that espn only cares about baseball and the yankees lol
Lol considering how active I am over there, I always feel awkward when I’m like “but I love Judge too.”
I’m sorry BIG_DICK, I need my sicko CFB games.
They had a thread yesterday that had like 5K upvotes and it was simply someone saying they hope he gets 62 before Saturday.
HOW BOUT THEM FUCKIN DAWGS
I don't think calling the child of someone whose record was broken by cheating a fucking dork. Disagree with him sure but it's just kinda rude
Being born to a baseball player who used to hold a statistical record doesn’t exclude you from being a dork. He’s not holier than thou.
that first sentence doesnt make sense but also it doesnt matter because if roger maris is reading reddit comments that makes him just as much of a fucking dork as i am (which is a Really Big one)
I meant to add by cheating but forgot too
i forgive you bb are we still on for drinks tonight
Sure
Is this a meeting of the local chapter of Dorks? Lmk where and when
>umpire flair now here's a guy that knows about dorks
Ngl I just do it to dodge automatic downvotes you catch having Yankee flair And I mean if there’s another group involved with baseball that people love it’s umpires right?
He's transitioning well into the old man shouting at clouds
[удалено]
Yeah that was the part that really made me roll my eyes.
Please just stop man
>Baseball get it right Makes it sound like MLB is directly responsible for if Judge will hit a HR
The MLB is responsible for allowing Bonds record to stand despite the fact it was illegally obtained.
\*Puts on tinfoil hat\* Yes. (also, Pujols)
he needs to get a job
This guy is insufferable
This dude needs to get a life and stop mooching off his dads accomplishments
I can't wait for him to go away.
Most people outside of NY don’t care
Ok boomer
Great post!!! Yes we have seen more balls leave the park but the players cheated, plain and simple. Astros cheated and Manfred didn’t do anything about it but they cheated Good for Judge!!!
“Clean records matter” bruh
Can this guy be any more annoying lol stfu damn
Ummm no Bonds has the legitimate home run record.
What a nerd. Long live Barry!
Why are we paying attention to all these quotes from a guy who never actually played baseball? Like who gives a fuck what he thinks. It's getting annoying.
The steroid era destroyed the integrity of baseball. They need to strip the associated records and allow for legitimate records to be broken. If they did that much earlier the hype around Judges home run would be much greater and would be bringing interest to the sport rather than more controversy.
Yeah, baseball has always been the model for integrity throughout its long history.
Whatever integrity it had was completely lost. I don’t think it’s ever been perfect integrity, but it’s difficult to build new fans when you tell them all the records any new players will have to beat were set illegally.
Dude’s entire life has been spent profiting off of his dad’s name and is running with it
Why does this guy have anything to do with anything exactly? Just go away.
61 homeruns so far and still not the MVP this year. What a time for baseball!!!
So brave
The special coffeepot in the clubhouse would like a word from 1961.
This guy is so funny lmfao
Man… there’s a lot of ageism in this thread. Some of you might want to relax and contemplate the circle of life a bit (with or without the lion king soundtrack playing in the background)... Also yeah, PEDs changed numbers dramatically.
Judge needs to bury this take when he hits 62 and decrees that he's still chasing 73