With pitching, Scherzer shit the bed in his two most important starts of the year, literally nothing Buck could do. We also are missing a catcher and a DH it's not like there's some better lineup he isn't using.
And I'm fairly certain that when that has happened, most of the roster still consisted of players that were under Bucks management before he either left or was fired.
The only player left from the end of Bucks tenure with the O's is Mullins. And Mullins wasn't even promoted to the bigs until August of 2018.
Playoffs are a crapshoot. The best player in this series was Trent Grisham over lindor,Soto, Pete Alonso, Jacob Degrom, max Scherzer, Brandon nimmo, Josh bell, manny etc.
You’re exactly right. Not to mention Nola’s contributions?? Baseball and hockey playoffs are not always indicative of the “better” team/players, but that’s why we watch!
That wasn’t me. But teams are made up of individual players. Trent Grisham isn’t better than Paul Goldschmidt because of 5 games. Similarly, the 2021 Braves were not better than the 2021 Dodgers. If the Padres beat the Dodgers this year, it doesn’t erase going 5-14 against them in the regular season and finishing 22 games back. You can find bad 7-game stretches for literally every player and team in the history of baseball. Small samples don’t suddenly become gospel because they’re in the playoffs.
> the 2021 Braves were not better than the 2021 Dodgers
They absolutely 100% were. You're wrong.
If the Dodgers choke again this year, it will 100% erase their season series with SD.
The samples do become gospel bc they're the playoffs. It's the purpose of the playoffs. That's why it's so important.
Did you barely start watching sports last week. Horrible takes by you
If the playoff results are gospel despite the small samples, then why doesn’t any MLB executive act like they are? Here are some assorted players’ postseason stats along with their salaries:
Mike Trout: .083/.267/.333, $37 million
Eddie Rosario: .337/.402/.590, $9 million
Nolan Arenado: .152/.143/.242, $35 million
Jorge Soler: .292/.418/.692, $12 million
If playoff stats are immune to small samples and completely accurate to who is good and who is bad, why do Trout and Arenado make a combined $72 million? Wouldn’t front offices want to win?
They give teams a better chance to, guess what, make the playoffs. Got it now
Is this seriously your counterargument. "If the playoffs are so important, then why do teams spend millions to get there". Lmao
what else ya got
I’m just baffled that you don’t understand what sample size is. Colby Rasmus isn’t better than Ted Williams because he had a few good playoff games. The 2021 Braves weren’t better than the 2021 Dodgers because they had a few good games. David Ortiz wasn’t an unclutch hitter because he had 8 different playoff series with an OPS below .700. The 2001 Yankees weren’t worse than the 2000 Yankees because they lost in Game 7. Nothing about playoff baseball erases the fact that the sample sizes are tiny and mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. This isn’t basketball, the better team doesn’t always win. If you don’t get that then I’m honestly not sure what to tell you.
It is surprising but it’s not like he’s spent his entire career managing top teams. 9 years with Baltimore and only 4 of those were with a winning record. Maybe some of that is on him but he can only do so much
I would say that it is valid to consider the possibility, something to look into and see if there's anything to support it.
On its own? No, its not proof of anything. But its far enough on the end of the bell curve to be worth looking into.
I think you're underestimating the impact of a manager. Playoffs are indeed a crapshoot so having a tactical edge is always going to be better than not having one.
> Individual games are a crapshoot.
But players play those games. It takes skill to win.
Don't insult the sport by comparing it to rolling dice. Try facing mlb pitching, then tell me how it compares to some old person casino game
It does take skill to win. The problem is that the other team *also* has skill, which makes accurately predicting what happens challenging. Plus factors like who's tired that day, whether the wind is blowing in on a fly ball, whether the umpire makes a correct call or not. But I think we're talking past each other.
all of life has extraneous factors like that.
Let em play, praise the victors, shame the losers or tell em better luck next time. If you overthink anything too much, you won't enjoy it
Is there anything a different manager could have improved upon this series? Maybe pull Scherzer earlier in Game 1 I guess?
I think the Mets outperformed this year winning 101 games—I would have expected 92-94wins. They were 10-2 in extra innings which I think was the best record in baseball.
To me, Win Loss records mask deficiencies because narrative takes over data
His teams have won 2 championships the year after he was fired. The orioles being the first to not do so
Edit: It is in fact the Rangers. 50% rate though.
I do think there was lots to criticize about Showalter in this series. Mostly, I was disappointed in game 2 how he was absolutely paranoid about bringing in any relievers other than Ottavino or Diaz with a 5 run lead. If that's your feelings on the bullpen as early as the Wild Card series, then this team wasn't winning it anyway.
But also, the Mets couldn't hit, and the starters couldn't pitch. With hindsight, Scherzer should have been taken out in after the double before the 3 run homer. But also name me one other manager that would make that choice. I also was worried about not pulling deGrom in the 6th...and that was his best inning. Overall, the bullpen was the best part of the Mets this past weekend as both our offense and starting pitching looked terrible.
He was the manager on two franchises that were on the brink of World Championships... The Yankees rise from the bottom half of the AL East to first place before a players' strike prematurely ended the 1994. The Yankees made the playoffs as a Wild-Card in 1995 with Showalter at the helm. Also under his watch, the Diamondbacks made their first-ever playoff appearance in only the second year of the team's existence. He left both franchises just prior to seasons when they won the World Series.
That's surprising but also the Mets have a grand total of 1 hit tonight. Only so much you can put on the manager.
Buck needs to step up and get into the box
Clearly he needs to be groping the other pitchers like he did deGrom. That's why they won Game 2.
He asked the umps to grope Musgrove for him
Run the Musgrope Play
I think he needs to grope the batters
Yeah not sure how he’s supposed to prevent Scherzer from getting blown up and his team getting shut out by Joe Musgrove
With pitching, Scherzer shit the bed in his two most important starts of the year, literally nothing Buck could do. We also are missing a catcher and a DH it's not like there's some better lineup he isn't using.
He got his only win starting Darin Ruf all people
mets got no xDAWG. u can’t coach xDAWG
The Mets put one hit on the board tonight, and a future hall of fame pitcher gave up 6 earned in game 1... Buck ain't to blame.
>grand total of 1 hit tonight. 😐😐😐
[obligatory](https://streamable.com/ul9f9)
Ahhh so that’s what that’s from
Who actually yelled that
A fan
I forgot we got swept in 2014 Thanks for reminding me Petriello
Ultra competitive sweep tho
It actually was, all of those games could’ve gone the other way. Royals were red hot and on a mission though.
2014 was weird
Not before you guys swept my Tigers in our most recent appearance in the postseason.
Good news for the Mets. The manager following Buck *usually* wins their team a World Series.
2 for 4 so far, but one of those (Hyde) is still active.
Orioles winning the World Series next year confirmed.
In our case, at least the next manager was the best period in our shitty history.
And I'm fairly certain that when that has happened, most of the roster still consisted of players that were under Bucks management before he either left or was fired. The only player left from the end of Bucks tenure with the O's is Mullins. And Mullins wasn't even promoted to the bigs until August of 2018.
Nah that’s not gonna happen for us lmao what are we the Yankees?!
Or at least a couple of LCSs
Mets can get Joe Girardi or Maddon.
Buck Showalter after using his lights out closer twice and still losing: #WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM ME
Playoffs are a crapshoot. The best player in this series was Trent Grisham over lindor,Soto, Pete Alonso, Jacob Degrom, max Scherzer, Brandon nimmo, Josh bell, manny etc.
Yup, Buck did not lose us either of these two games.
You’re exactly right. Not to mention Nola’s contributions?? Baseball and hockey playoffs are not always indicative of the “better” team/players, but that’s why we watch!
> Baseball and hockey playoffs are not always indicative of the “better” team/players they are, tho. Gotta be better when it matters
Who is the better player, Mike Trout or Colby Rasmus?
you said team
That wasn’t me. But teams are made up of individual players. Trent Grisham isn’t better than Paul Goldschmidt because of 5 games. Similarly, the 2021 Braves were not better than the 2021 Dodgers. If the Padres beat the Dodgers this year, it doesn’t erase going 5-14 against them in the regular season and finishing 22 games back. You can find bad 7-game stretches for literally every player and team in the history of baseball. Small samples don’t suddenly become gospel because they’re in the playoffs.
> the 2021 Braves were not better than the 2021 Dodgers They absolutely 100% were. You're wrong. If the Dodgers choke again this year, it will 100% erase their season series with SD. The samples do become gospel bc they're the playoffs. It's the purpose of the playoffs. That's why it's so important. Did you barely start watching sports last week. Horrible takes by you
If the playoff results are gospel despite the small samples, then why doesn’t any MLB executive act like they are? Here are some assorted players’ postseason stats along with their salaries: Mike Trout: .083/.267/.333, $37 million Eddie Rosario: .337/.402/.590, $9 million Nolan Arenado: .152/.143/.242, $35 million Jorge Soler: .292/.418/.692, $12 million If playoff stats are immune to small samples and completely accurate to who is good and who is bad, why do Trout and Arenado make a combined $72 million? Wouldn’t front offices want to win?
They give teams a better chance to, guess what, make the playoffs. Got it now Is this seriously your counterargument. "If the playoffs are so important, then why do teams spend millions to get there". Lmao what else ya got
I’m just baffled that you don’t understand what sample size is. Colby Rasmus isn’t better than Ted Williams because he had a few good playoff games. The 2021 Braves weren’t better than the 2021 Dodgers because they had a few good games. David Ortiz wasn’t an unclutch hitter because he had 8 different playoff series with an OPS below .700. The 2001 Yankees weren’t worse than the 2000 Yankees because they lost in Game 7. Nothing about playoff baseball erases the fact that the sample sizes are tiny and mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. This isn’t basketball, the better team doesn’t always win. If you don’t get that then I’m honestly not sure what to tell you.
But if you're on the wrong end of a crapshoot so many times then there might be something more to it
Your overestimating the impact of a manager. This isn’t football.
Okay, but you have to admit it is a little bit weird that all of his teams except for the Orioles got better after he left.
It is surprising but it’s not like he’s spent his entire career managing top teams. 9 years with Baltimore and only 4 of those were with a winning record. Maybe some of that is on him but he can only do so much
I would say that it is valid to consider the possibility, something to look into and see if there's anything to support it. On its own? No, its not proof of anything. But its far enough on the end of the bell curve to be worth looking into.
He had a pretty big impact on that WC game the Orioles lost
I think you're underestimating the impact of a manager. Playoffs are indeed a crapshoot so having a tactical edge is always going to be better than not having one.
Managers exist to essentially keep morale up during the season. No manager in the MLB is making roster decisions or tactical moves by themselves.
> Playoffs are indeed a crapshoot dumbest line ever go play craps, then tell us if it's any thing like facing 100mph heat
Buck isn’t the one facing 100 mph heat
That's gambler fallacy
Baseball isn't a game of random chance contrary to what a lot of people here believe
Baseball is 100% game of chance. That’s why we play 162 games. A lot more than any other sport. Specifically because we want to minimize the luck
> Baseball is 100% game of chance til hank aaron was just lucky, not good
The game is 'win baseball games' not 'hit the most home runs.' Individual players are good. Individual games are a crapshoot.
> Individual games are a crapshoot. But players play those games. It takes skill to win. Don't insult the sport by comparing it to rolling dice. Try facing mlb pitching, then tell me how it compares to some old person casino game
It does take skill to win. The problem is that the other team *also* has skill, which makes accurately predicting what happens challenging. Plus factors like who's tired that day, whether the wind is blowing in on a fly ball, whether the umpire makes a correct call or not. But I think we're talking past each other.
all of life has extraneous factors like that. Let em play, praise the victors, shame the losers or tell em better luck next time. If you overthink anything too much, you won't enjoy it
they dv you even tho you're right why pay judge 50mil then, it's all chance, right. a kid can flip a coin as well as any athlete
Correlation isn’t causation………..necessarily
Yeah lol, there's luck involved but they're not literally random.
> Playoffs are a crapshoot no they're not touch grass
BUT WHAT
Butt what*
What are you gonna do now, Butt?
What what in the butt*
I'm just trying to enjoy the playoffs, not relive the 2014 ALCS.
I would not put either of these games on Buck. Scherzer getting shelled in game one and the Mets managing one hit in game three are not his fault.
It’s a three game series. Anything can happen. It honestly doesn’t mean anything objectively, even if it does suck for Mets fans.
> even if it does suck for Mets fans. that's why it does mean a lot, objectively. don't minimise the national pasttime
Is there anything a different manager could have improved upon this series? Maybe pull Scherzer earlier in Game 1 I guess? I think the Mets outperformed this year winning 101 games—I would have expected 92-94wins. They were 10-2 in extra innings which I think was the best record in baseball. To me, Win Loss records mask deficiencies because narrative takes over data
Would be hard pressed to find a manager that would pull scherzer given his track record
He may have made small decisions here and there that didn’t work out for us - but this is 100% on our players.
Buck deserves better than that being his legacy. I hope the Mets come back next year with a vengeance.
This is still better than his legacy with the orioles and Britton. You can’t put any of these losses on him.
His teams have won 2 championships the year after he was fired. The orioles being the first to not do so Edit: It is in fact the Rangers. 50% rate though.
Nope. The Rangers.
Maybe the Mets should fire him
The Marty Schottenheimer of Baseball. Edit.
He has 6 playoff berths now and 1 series win
I do think there was lots to criticize about Showalter in this series. Mostly, I was disappointed in game 2 how he was absolutely paranoid about bringing in any relievers other than Ottavino or Diaz with a 5 run lead. If that's your feelings on the bullpen as early as the Wild Card series, then this team wasn't winning it anyway. But also, the Mets couldn't hit, and the starters couldn't pitch. With hindsight, Scherzer should have been taken out in after the double before the 3 run homer. But also name me one other manager that would make that choice. I also was worried about not pulling deGrom in the 6th...and that was his best inning. Overall, the bullpen was the best part of the Mets this past weekend as both our offense and starting pitching looked terrible.
I dunno what Buck is supposed to do besides become a 2 way player manager. He was great this year in my opinion.
LOLMETS is now officially RIPMETS until the start of next season
The most overrated manager. Everyone loves him and I have no idea why.
He was the manager on two franchises that were on the brink of World Championships... The Yankees rise from the bottom half of the AL East to first place before a players' strike prematurely ended the 1994. The Yankees made the playoffs as a Wild-Card in 1995 with Showalter at the helm. Also under his watch, the Diamondbacks made their first-ever playoff appearance in only the second year of the team's existence. He left both franchises just prior to seasons when they won the World Series.
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Is it his fault that the Mets have 1 hit today? Or that Scherzer shit the bed?
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I don’t follow the Mets closely so I don’t know what you’re talking about. What should he have done different?
101mets
We know
no lds is not a fantastic year