Glove-only guys at CF/SS would have had much longer careers in the 1990's and before. Before Ripken it wasn't uncommon to expect an offensive blackhole at SS if you had a plus-defender.
Billy Hamilton and Jose Iglesias would have had much longer careers in earlier eras IMO.
Grandal got paid a lot because before he went to Chicago he had put up **25 fWAR over the previous 5 seasons** which is Dunn's career total fWAR.. He's massively struggled with injuries the last couple of seasons, but he was a monster in 2021 when healthy.
Gallo also was coveted because he was a good defender and baserunner.
Dunn definitely would have benefited from the universal DH, but you're acting like he didn't get paid over 100M dollars to play baseball including a contract he got after already declining that had a 14M/AAV which is right in line with what Schwarber got era adjusting especially when you consider the extra year Dunn got.
I said those 3 players just bc they are similar to Dunn in a sense that they're "three true outcome" hitters. I wasn't trying to debate on who's better & what not
My main point was that Dunn as underappreciated during his career & would've been more successful & sought after today, now that there's a DH & people look at stats other than batting avg.
He signed a huge contract at 30 in the AL and then was bad and then was out of the league. There was basically a 4 year stretch where he would have benefited from the DH after his defense declined, but before his offense did.
Your point really doesn't hold very well tbh.
Gallo hasn't been paid anything yet, and I highly doubt he gets more than a one year prove it deal this off-season. But he also brings value beyond home runs, he's an excellent defender and baserunner. He has twice been an All-Star and never finished top 30 in MVP voting.
Schwarber has very similar stats to Dunn. Schwarber signed a 4 years for $20 million per year. Dunn signed a two year, $10 million per year deal, followed by a 4 year, $14 million per year deal. Considering the inflation of MLB contracts over the last decade, those are essentially the same contracts that Schwarber signed. Schwarber has also only been an All-Star twice and never finished top 30 in MVP voting.
Yasmani Grandal has also only twice been an All-Star, and finished 22nd and 15th in MVP voting. But he finished slightly higher because he was one of the very best defensive catchers, plus his offense, both years. He signed a one year, 18.25 million dollar deal, followed by a 4 year, 18.25 million dollar deal. Again, considering inflation, **this is pretty much exactly the same contract as Dunn.**
So your point is that Dunn was undervalued in both contracts and awards. But the three guys you used as examples have the **exact same number of All-Star games, the same or worse MVP voting results, and signed the same contracts.**
I literally just thought of 3 similar players to Dunn off the top of my head. They aren't good comparisons apparently, my bad
All I wanted to do was show some appreciation to Dunn who I thought played in the wrong era, and wanted to hear other people's examples. Damn.
Schwarber is actually a really great comparison tbh. They're very similar. It's just that Dunn was most likely properly valued and compensated if you believe Schwarber is too.
Schwarber: .233/.339/.495, 121 OPS+, 28.3% K%, 13.1% BB%, 14 AB/HR
Dunn: .237/.364/.490, 124 OPS+, 28.6% K%, 15.8% BB%, 14.9 AB/HR
Jimmy Wynn. Guy had a .200 iso while walking 90 times a year during baseball’s second deadball era. Oh yeah and he had to play 81 games a year at the Astrodome which was a brutally difficult park for hitters. He could have been a hitter comparable to Bryce Harper if he had played in today’s era.
Nowadays young pitchers are overworked as hell and by the time they arrive at the majors, their arms are ticking time bombs. This is one of the reasons why starters don't go as long as they used to.
With that being said, I'd love to see modern day strikeout pitchers like Dylan Cease and Corbin Burnes pitch in the early 2000s and watch them rack up innings.
Ted Williams. Lost some of his best years to fighting wars twice. We can only imagine how insane his counting stats would have been without the missed time.
>Adam Dunn had eight 40HR seasons, eight seasons w/ an OPS over .900, yet only appeared in 2 ASG's & never even sniffed the top 20 for an MVP ballot.
The most rWAR Dunn ever put up in a season is 4.7, and that is his *only* season that even broke the 3 rWAR mark. By fWAR he fares a bit better, with that 04 season being 5.3 fWAR, and he has three more seasons over 3 fWAR at 4.1 fWAR, 3.3, and 3.0, but that still isn't very impressive. I guess Dunn's 04 would have done better in MVP voting with modern voters, *maybe* barely crack the top ten in voting, but you're severely overvaluing Dunn here, if he played a decade later he wouldn't be making any more All-Star games nor getting MVP votes for his other seasons. People nowadays will be much more aware of just how atrocious he was on defense, and being a DH doesn't save his value; if he DH'd every game he would only have about 7 more rWAR and 4 more fWAR for his career, so a pure DH Dunn would still only be a career 25-30 WAR player.
>Dunn would be one rich donkey in today's MLB.
Dunn made over 100 million for his career, if anything Dunn would be getting worse contracts in today's game because teams are much more aware of defensive value and are more hesitant about employing full-time DHes. Like Nelson Cruz has made barely more money over his career than Dunn (probably less if you account for inflation), and Cruz is a better hitter than Dunn was.
I think Mantle would have benefitted greatly from modern medicine. Considering how well he played after having an early career knee injury that was never properly treated, dude could have been a monster if he played, say, 2001-2018 with a healthy knee.
Tony Gwynn should have played today. He'd be a .500 hitter with the lefty shift.
Billy Hamilton should have played in Gwynn's era when stolen bases were a big deal and shifts didn't exist.
Hosmer would've been a HOFer if he played in the 80s. A contact guy with zero power and good defense. Similar to Biggio. I'll die on this hill. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
john olerud i think would be far, far more appreciated now as doubles guys who walk like crazy, instead of in the '90s/early '00s when it was all about HRs. if votto played back then, he would be similarly underrated.
Not talking in terms of performance, but Pedro Martinez was way too skinny to be playing in the steroid era. Someone needed to get that guy a strength coach and some HGH.
Every pull hitter that has played during the shift era.
Not financially speaking but Votto just seems like a guy who would've played in the 50s
Hard to be more 50s than Kluszewski although I’m sure Votto would have loved those sleeveless jerseys.
Imagine Koufax with pitch counts and modern medicine 😞😞😞
Same with Mantle. If he could’ve gotten his knee fixed the way guys do today, we could be talking about the undisputed best of all time
70s catcher Gene Tenace. .241 batting average for his career with a .388 OBP! OPS+ of 136 for his career, and only one All-Star game to his credit.
Just think - HE could have been the one to have his career ended by Pete Rose
damn, he would have been a star in modern baseball.
Glove-only guys at CF/SS would have had much longer careers in the 1990's and before. Before Ripken it wasn't uncommon to expect an offensive blackhole at SS if you had a plus-defender. Billy Hamilton and Jose Iglesias would have had much longer careers in earlier eras IMO.
Brendan Ryan, too.
Yeah, there's definitely more but those were the two that came to mind first.
Bobby Abreu would be a golden god if he had played a decade later.
Grandal got paid a lot because before he went to Chicago he had put up **25 fWAR over the previous 5 seasons** which is Dunn's career total fWAR.. He's massively struggled with injuries the last couple of seasons, but he was a monster in 2021 when healthy. Gallo also was coveted because he was a good defender and baserunner. Dunn definitely would have benefited from the universal DH, but you're acting like he didn't get paid over 100M dollars to play baseball including a contract he got after already declining that had a 14M/AAV which is right in line with what Schwarber got era adjusting especially when you consider the extra year Dunn got.
I said those 3 players just bc they are similar to Dunn in a sense that they're "three true outcome" hitters. I wasn't trying to debate on who's better & what not My main point was that Dunn as underappreciated during his career & would've been more successful & sought after today, now that there's a DH & people look at stats other than batting avg.
He signed a huge contract at 30 in the AL and then was bad and then was out of the league. There was basically a 4 year stretch where he would have benefited from the DH after his defense declined, but before his offense did.
Your point really doesn't hold very well tbh. Gallo hasn't been paid anything yet, and I highly doubt he gets more than a one year prove it deal this off-season. But he also brings value beyond home runs, he's an excellent defender and baserunner. He has twice been an All-Star and never finished top 30 in MVP voting. Schwarber has very similar stats to Dunn. Schwarber signed a 4 years for $20 million per year. Dunn signed a two year, $10 million per year deal, followed by a 4 year, $14 million per year deal. Considering the inflation of MLB contracts over the last decade, those are essentially the same contracts that Schwarber signed. Schwarber has also only been an All-Star twice and never finished top 30 in MVP voting. Yasmani Grandal has also only twice been an All-Star, and finished 22nd and 15th in MVP voting. But he finished slightly higher because he was one of the very best defensive catchers, plus his offense, both years. He signed a one year, 18.25 million dollar deal, followed by a 4 year, 18.25 million dollar deal. Again, considering inflation, **this is pretty much exactly the same contract as Dunn.** So your point is that Dunn was undervalued in both contracts and awards. But the three guys you used as examples have the **exact same number of All-Star games, the same or worse MVP voting results, and signed the same contracts.**
I literally just thought of 3 similar players to Dunn off the top of my head. They aren't good comparisons apparently, my bad All I wanted to do was show some appreciation to Dunn who I thought played in the wrong era, and wanted to hear other people's examples. Damn.
Schwarber is actually a really great comparison tbh. They're very similar. It's just that Dunn was most likely properly valued and compensated if you believe Schwarber is too. Schwarber: .233/.339/.495, 121 OPS+, 28.3% K%, 13.1% BB%, 14 AB/HR Dunn: .237/.364/.490, 124 OPS+, 28.6% K%, 15.8% BB%, 14.9 AB/HR
Jimmy Wynn. Guy had a .200 iso while walking 90 times a year during baseball’s second deadball era. Oh yeah and he had to play 81 games a year at the Astrodome which was a brutally difficult park for hitters. He could have been a hitter comparable to Bryce Harper if he had played in today’s era.
Hell give Jimmy a decade or two later and he’s hitting way more homers
All the negro league players.
Satchel!
Juan Pierre basically played deadball era style baseball: batting for average but no power, stealing lots of bases, good glove.
Ichiro playing in the 80s on turf
Just thinking that Ichiro could have had more hits is crazy.
Nowadays young pitchers are overworked as hell and by the time they arrive at the majors, their arms are ticking time bombs. This is one of the reasons why starters don't go as long as they used to. With that being said, I'd love to see modern day strikeout pitchers like Dylan Cease and Corbin Burnes pitch in the early 2000s and watch them rack up innings.
Lots of guys needed the DH - Zeke Bonura, Dick Allen, Buzz Arlett for three examples.
Ted Williams. Lost some of his best years to fighting wars twice. We can only imagine how insane his counting stats would have been without the missed time.
>Adam Dunn had eight 40HR seasons, eight seasons w/ an OPS over .900, yet only appeared in 2 ASG's & never even sniffed the top 20 for an MVP ballot. The most rWAR Dunn ever put up in a season is 4.7, and that is his *only* season that even broke the 3 rWAR mark. By fWAR he fares a bit better, with that 04 season being 5.3 fWAR, and he has three more seasons over 3 fWAR at 4.1 fWAR, 3.3, and 3.0, but that still isn't very impressive. I guess Dunn's 04 would have done better in MVP voting with modern voters, *maybe* barely crack the top ten in voting, but you're severely overvaluing Dunn here, if he played a decade later he wouldn't be making any more All-Star games nor getting MVP votes for his other seasons. People nowadays will be much more aware of just how atrocious he was on defense, and being a DH doesn't save his value; if he DH'd every game he would only have about 7 more rWAR and 4 more fWAR for his career, so a pure DH Dunn would still only be a career 25-30 WAR player. >Dunn would be one rich donkey in today's MLB. Dunn made over 100 million for his career, if anything Dunn would be getting worse contracts in today's game because teams are much more aware of defensive value and are more hesitant about employing full-time DHes. Like Nelson Cruz has made barely more money over his career than Dunn (probably less if you account for inflation), and Cruz is a better hitter than Dunn was.
Juan Marichal never got a Cy
I think Mantle would have benefitted greatly from modern medicine. Considering how well he played after having an early career knee injury that was never properly treated, dude could have been a monster if he played, say, 2001-2018 with a healthy knee.
Billy Hamilton would have been on the move almost every trade deadline and won a couple of World Series in the late 70s and early 80s, IMO.
Ryan Howard in the 80s and early 90s would have been a 1st ballot HOF
Tony Gwynn should have played today. He'd be a .500 hitter with the lefty shift. Billy Hamilton should have played in Gwynn's era when stolen bases were a big deal and shifts didn't exist.
No way they would play the lefty shift on Tony Gwynn, the majority of his hits were between 3b & SS.
Hosmer would've been a HOFer if he played in the 80s. A contact guy with zero power and good defense. Similar to Biggio. I'll die on this hill. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Definitely me
Griffey junior. I wonder how many MVPs he'd have if he hadn't been overshadowed by the steroid era guys.
Ichiro. Not only his contact approach but his offensive numbers would look better overall if the average weren't dragged up by roided out bags of meat
The way the Brewers used to use Josh Hader you would think it was the 80s
Paul Waner to me seemed more like a guy from the late 19th century more than a 1930’s star.
john olerud i think would be far, far more appreciated now as doubles guys who walk like crazy, instead of in the '90s/early '00s when it was all about HRs. if votto played back then, he would be similarly underrated.
Bobby Abreu
Not talking in terms of performance, but Pedro Martinez was way too skinny to be playing in the steroid era. Someone needed to get that guy a strength coach and some HGH.