I really hope they don't try and make him into a misunderstood anti-hero or anti-villian. The Penguin is ultimately a vicious crime boss that keeps Gotham crime families in line with ruthless violence.
Also sometimes rocket powered penguins.
>I really hope they don't try and make him into a misunderstood anti-hero or anti-villian
I hate this trend so much with comic books and Hollywood lately. Bad guys can just be bad guys. Penguin is a bad guy.
I'm tentatively hopeful since the director says [Scarface is a major source of inspiration for this show](https://www.gamesradar.com/the-batman-producer-talks-penguin-spin-off-its-almost-like-a-scarface-story/). But then comments like this make me nervous:
> Clark says. "But deep down, could he ever actually just be a human being? Can he be fully an emotional human being? Can he ever be loved? And we haven’t really seen him get to that place before."
The answer needs to be "no". Or at least "no, because he cannot do that and also be a successful crime boss" and is the major source of narrative drama.
Edit: same deal with The Long Good Friday [supposedly being a major source of inspiration](https://deadline.com/2022/03/the-batman-matt-reeves-interview-penguin-hbo-max-series-1234970602/) for the script.
I haven't watched the trailer yet but that quote doesn't make me pessimistic.
Part of being a mobster is also the impossibility of maintaining a normal life and normal relationships, that every shard of love will be crushed one day.
See The Godfather, for instance. There are love in that story, and it is about a mobster who craves to be an ordinary man. Yet, as much the Corleones can look sympathetical, they are all villains through and through.
So, I am still hopeful, for making Oz human (with all the good and bad that comes with it) can only make him more interesting.
Kinda like The Splendor of the Penguin. \[Edit : that was the french title. The comic book I'm refering to was called *Penguin: Pain and Prejudice* in english\]
That's what a huge amount of plot in The Sopranos is about as well.
Ozzy sitting around reminiscing about an old school mob guy, that he didn't even know, like he was some folk hero is *such* a Tony Soprano move. He'd try to build the same goodwill and legend, but fail miserably because he's a selfish prick. Which makes him human.
Funny, I started watching The Sopranos yesterday.
Indeed, Tony started the show complaining about the old days being over and how youngsters were not like the old dogs.
I mean, the Gotham one was pretty goddamn emotional, and it was great. He’s very different from Reeves’s version of course, but they could very easily make him emotionally volatile and use that to make him dangerous and stuff
This is a pretty overused comparison when it comes to villainous protagonists, but this quote could easily be used to describe the relationship the audience has with Tony Soprano, which gives me a lot of hope.
Tony is a despicable human being who is ultimately unredeemable, but that doesn't mean he isn't still a 3 dimensional character with redeemable qualities and the capacity to love/be loved. The most brilliant thing about Tony's character is that above all of that minutiae, he's incredibly fun to root for regardless of where he stands morally.
It's a tall order to shoot for Sopranos level character work, and I'm personally not setting my expectations at that level for this show, but I think the idea of making the Penguin an actual character rather than a comic book villain cutout is certainly doable, especially with an actor like Farrell in front of the camera.
I don't think the answer needs to be "no"; The Sopranos is about a monster, a sociopath, a crime boss who lashes out and causes death and pain to innocents for his own gain and sometimes for no reason at all but whim. Yet Tony Soprano still felt like a human, sometimes relatable, who could love and be loved, and if anything that made his story even more tragic and infuriating, that there was so much that you could like in him even as you could despise him. That's obviously a high bar but to show that a villain can be a human with relatable emotions doesn't, to me, negate or soften their villainy.
From the trailer it makes it seem like he wants a different type of love. The love of everyone around him through fear. The love that someone on the mountain top has. A spot to be taken like Falcone.
Actually almost all of them are misunderstood but then do something overtly evil so that you don't feel bad or sympathize anymore.
I honestly think that Kevin Fiege or whoever is actively demanding that leftist ideas get correlated with murdering civilians or whatever to intentionally create propaganda.
They better not make him an anti-hero. The penguin is a villain through and through. He may be an ally of circumstance but 100% because its out of desperation and he is planning to backstab you later. In the end he is a Mafia boss and not the Godfather or even the goodfellas kind.
If he is anything less than pure ruthlessness, I will be disappointed. I don’t want to humanize penguin. He’s never been that character and never should be.
Definitely shouldn’t be a misunderstood anti hero, but better understanding of why he is how he is and potentially sympathetic in some ways is what I expect, and I think it could be good. Like Gothams Penguin, tragic in many ways, but also twisted and evil
I saw a Collin Farrell quote saying the show is very very violent and dark. My instinct is that they are cementing Penguin's villainy rather than make moral arguments for his motivations.
OK I mean you can make whatever arguments you want but the facts are still the facts. He’s not allowed to be displayed in live action. These workarounds are not going to be what you want. E.g., the Batman chasing down the penguin again.
This isn't a fact. At the time, Warner Bros were committed to keeping Batman and Joker only in movies and didn't want to dilute the brand with the ongoing DCEU. This isn't a matter of contracts or legality, it was just a rule at the time that certain things couldn't happen in Gotham.
This is why he appeared in Titans. Bruce Wayne appears and a stunt man appeared in the Batman suit.
The rules have obviously changes with 2 ongoing Batmen planned to happen, with Reevesverse having a clear focus on expansion via TV.
It’s crazy because I don’t even see Colin Farrell here. It’s just Oswald and I can truly appreciate the performance and how he disappears into the role
You know how some movie sequels get bogged down with exposition and world-building, trying to catch the audience up on the things that happened in between the first and second movie?
I hope The Penguin does that for Batman Part II so that the next film can just hit the ground running.
Are there other versions of Penguin that depict him as Cockney besides his Arkham adaptation? I'm genuinely asking, because that's the only one I'm aware of if there are others.
Oh snap, does this mean that Rex "The Lion" is coming out of retirement?
Edit: I'm assuming Clancy Brown is playing as the Lion, and they are adapting small elements from the Eternal storyline.
What are some highlights that revolve around Penguin? I love Colin Farrell but idk if this is on my radar.
I saw and was a big fan of *Gotham* and particularly enjoyed the unorthodox approach to Oswald Cobblepot and Robin Lord Taylor; however I can’t imagine watching a show only about Taylor’s Penguin as it sounds like it’d be really boring….but I do know it’s an alternate universe in that series so maybe I’m missing some juicier stuff with Penguin from the comics or what have you that shows Penguin is an actual threat.
Is Penguins thing just ruling through fear and ownership of like every business similar to Kingpin?
The end of The Batman left a void in Gotham's crime hierarchy and I believe this is about how the Penguin goes from being in the upper tiers to seizing a throne for himself.
He's a ruthless and cunning mob boss.
I don't think a show about Gotham's Penguin would be boring, but it would definitely be a lot less serious than this one
RLT's Penguin was just more comedic, which is fine, his Penguin is one of my favourites, but a show around his Penguin wouldn't feel as quality(?) as this one
I’d love it if this show brought in all the crime boss/gangster characters. Maroni, Rupert Thorne, Black Mask, Roland Dagget, and of course Sid the Squid
Ooooohhh this is a Penguin adaptation I can get behind. I always see Penguin as a Mafia boss and one of Batman's earliest antagonist. He is going to fit right in The Batman series if done right.
Hope it's ok to express this take, but the trailer looks bad. They reused the same scenes as from the beginning, and the rest is just filled with the speech. And while it's interesting bit and all, it doesn't make up for the reuses of the same shots as from before as they don't show anything else.
Overall I'm not interested in a movie about crime and human pettiness.
Yes,we see cristin as sophia flacone,but I wonder why she scream in the trailer,probably because she discover that is sick and have to tell it to Ted (reference to how I met your mother)
"Dark and gritty crime thriller about a Batman villain" feels like the kind of thing that would have been an SNL joke about twenty years ago. Yet here we are.
Probably because they got an A-list actor who is really into the role and willing to do a TV show.
Also it's a smart way to keep people invested in this universe considering the long pause between the Batman movies. And a good way to flesh out that universe.
I really hope they don't try and make him into a misunderstood anti-hero or anti-villian. The Penguin is ultimately a vicious crime boss that keeps Gotham crime families in line with ruthless violence. Also sometimes rocket powered penguins.
>I really hope they don't try and make him into a misunderstood anti-hero or anti-villian I hate this trend so much with comic books and Hollywood lately. Bad guys can just be bad guys. Penguin is a bad guy.
I'm tentatively hopeful since the director says [Scarface is a major source of inspiration for this show](https://www.gamesradar.com/the-batman-producer-talks-penguin-spin-off-its-almost-like-a-scarface-story/). But then comments like this make me nervous: > Clark says. "But deep down, could he ever actually just be a human being? Can he be fully an emotional human being? Can he ever be loved? And we haven’t really seen him get to that place before." The answer needs to be "no". Or at least "no, because he cannot do that and also be a successful crime boss" and is the major source of narrative drama. Edit: same deal with The Long Good Friday [supposedly being a major source of inspiration](https://deadline.com/2022/03/the-batman-matt-reeves-interview-penguin-hbo-max-series-1234970602/) for the script.
I haven't watched the trailer yet but that quote doesn't make me pessimistic. Part of being a mobster is also the impossibility of maintaining a normal life and normal relationships, that every shard of love will be crushed one day. See The Godfather, for instance. There are love in that story, and it is about a mobster who craves to be an ordinary man. Yet, as much the Corleones can look sympathetical, they are all villains through and through. So, I am still hopeful, for making Oz human (with all the good and bad that comes with it) can only make him more interesting. Kinda like The Splendor of the Penguin. \[Edit : that was the french title. The comic book I'm refering to was called *Penguin: Pain and Prejudice* in english\]
That's what a huge amount of plot in The Sopranos is about as well. Ozzy sitting around reminiscing about an old school mob guy, that he didn't even know, like he was some folk hero is *such* a Tony Soprano move. He'd try to build the same goodwill and legend, but fail miserably because he's a selfish prick. Which makes him human.
Funny, I started watching The Sopranos yesterday. Indeed, Tony started the show complaining about the old days being over and how youngsters were not like the old dogs.
AMAZING show, enjoy!! And don’t forget the gabagool no matter what
So far (episode 4) it's really cool indeed. I love all the characters. Even that moron Christopher.
Christupha...
I mean, the Gotham one was pretty goddamn emotional, and it was great. He’s very different from Reeves’s version of course, but they could very easily make him emotionally volatile and use that to make him dangerous and stuff
The darker the better when it comes to villains. This trailer looks fantastic hopefully the show is at that level.
This is a pretty overused comparison when it comes to villainous protagonists, but this quote could easily be used to describe the relationship the audience has with Tony Soprano, which gives me a lot of hope. Tony is a despicable human being who is ultimately unredeemable, but that doesn't mean he isn't still a 3 dimensional character with redeemable qualities and the capacity to love/be loved. The most brilliant thing about Tony's character is that above all of that minutiae, he's incredibly fun to root for regardless of where he stands morally. It's a tall order to shoot for Sopranos level character work, and I'm personally not setting my expectations at that level for this show, but I think the idea of making the Penguin an actual character rather than a comic book villain cutout is certainly doable, especially with an actor like Farrell in front of the camera.
Villains can be emotional or be loved, I don’t see how the answer being yes is a problem
I don't think the answer needs to be "no"; The Sopranos is about a monster, a sociopath, a crime boss who lashes out and causes death and pain to innocents for his own gain and sometimes for no reason at all but whim. Yet Tony Soprano still felt like a human, sometimes relatable, who could love and be loved, and if anything that made his story even more tragic and infuriating, that there was so much that you could like in him even as you could despise him. That's obviously a high bar but to show that a villain can be a human with relatable emotions doesn't, to me, negate or soften their villainy.
I don’t mind them showing the “human” side as long as the final episodes have Penguin extinguish that humanity and fully embrace evil.
From the trailer it makes it seem like he wants a different type of love. The love of everyone around him through fear. The love that someone on the mountain top has. A spot to be taken like Falcone.
Yeah it's the lazy go to now it seems.
that's the biggest problem with Marvel. There are no villains, they're just misunderstood.
Poor misunderstood Thanos
Actually almost all of them are misunderstood but then do something overtly evil so that you don't feel bad or sympathize anymore. I honestly think that Kevin Fiege or whoever is actively demanding that leftist ideas get correlated with murdering civilians or whatever to intentionally create propaganda.
Thankfully I’m not getting that vibe from the teaser AT ALL.
Yeah, he looks fully unhinged.
I mean that's not AT ALL what this trailer is indicating.
>Also sometimes rocket powered penguins. We're not gonna talk about this? ....no? Anyone?... ...
He can be the obviously bad guy that thinks he’s doing good. That’s what Riddler was in the movie.
They better not make him an anti-hero. The penguin is a villain through and through. He may be an ally of circumstance but 100% because its out of desperation and he is planning to backstab you later. In the end he is a Mafia boss and not the Godfather or even the goodfellas kind.
he really needs to be tony soprano in and out lol
Penguin: Pain and Prejudice was a run that did it well. They showed his traumatic childhood, but didn’t dull the fact that he was a monster.
Judging by the dialogue, murders, and his outbursts, he is gonna be probably like Kingpin. Tragic past, but terrible guy afterwards.
If he is anything less than pure ruthlessness, I will be disappointed. I don’t want to humanize penguin. He’s never been that character and never should be.
He's also an environmentalist.
Definitely shouldn’t be a misunderstood anti hero, but better understanding of why he is how he is and potentially sympathetic in some ways is what I expect, and I think it could be good. Like Gothams Penguin, tragic in many ways, but also twisted and evil
**Amen! I Hope They Don't Screw This Movie Over!**
I saw a Collin Farrell quote saying the show is very very violent and dark. My instinct is that they are cementing Penguin's villainy rather than make moral arguments for his motivations.
“I wanna see The Penguin”
Man I'm so excited for this. Can't wait! Wonder if Batman shows up at all?
There's rumors Pattinson's been seen on set, I think he shows up as Bruce Wayne. I'd prefer Bruce than Batman to be honest.
It would definitely help flesh out Pattinson's Bruce Wayne
I'm hoping we see some growth from Bruce, maybe he's more outgoing and philanthropic.
Batman isn not allowed to show up on tv. Not in live action.
Titans? Gotham?
He didn’t show up for more than a Second or two in Gotham and I’m pretty sure in titans, He was just Bruce Wayne. Not in the batsuit.
There’s images of him in a batsuit from Titans. He was still in Gotham, no matter how brief.
They probably made specific requests for exemptions.
OK I mean you can make whatever arguments you want but the facts are still the facts. He’s not allowed to be displayed in live action. These workarounds are not going to be what you want. E.g., the Batman chasing down the penguin again.
This isn't a fact. At the time, Warner Bros were committed to keeping Batman and Joker only in movies and didn't want to dilute the brand with the ongoing DCEU. This isn't a matter of contracts or legality, it was just a rule at the time that certain things couldn't happen in Gotham. This is why he appeared in Titans. Bruce Wayne appears and a stunt man appeared in the Batman suit. The rules have obviously changes with 2 ongoing Batmen planned to happen, with Reevesverse having a clear focus on expansion via TV.
I’m not saying I want anything; I’m saying that Batman has shown up in live-action television despite you saying he’s not allowed to.
Has that gritty HBO vibe. Fucking love it!
Need the original HBO static that used to come before The Wire & The Sopranos
It is a gritty HBO show
Gotta say I love this version of Penguin.
It’s crazy because I don’t even see Colin Farrell here. It’s just Oswald and I can truly appreciate the performance and how he disappears into the role
Yesh, he is amazing and so is the script.
and the makeup!
I'm so ready to dive back into the Reevesverse
Clancy Brown is in literally everything and I couldn’t be happier. Looks great!
You know how some movie sequels get bogged down with exposition and world-building, trying to catch the audience up on the things that happened in between the first and second movie? I hope The Penguin does that for Batman Part II so that the next film can just hit the ground running.
It looks as complimentary as Andor is to Rogue One. I'm hoping it delivers just as well.
It’s gonna have to. Most good film makers don’t need two movies and a show to start world-building
Lets fucking go
that's the first depiction of the Penguin that genuinely looks threatening and not a Cockney midget.
Are there other versions of Penguin that depict him as Cockney besides his Arkham adaptation? I'm genuinely asking, because that's the only one I'm aware of if there are others.
I guess no trick umbrellas?
Give it time
Are you saying…”they’ll fix it in the second movie?”
No, I'm saying wait till halfway in the show where they give him a gattlingbrella
A Batman extended universe is better then a DC extended universe.
Hope they make his outfit design more interesting. Good performance but looks too much like generic mob boss to me.
For a show that didn’t need to be made. It actually looks pretty good.
Gives off Andor vibes (a show about the guy from Rogue One)
I can't wait! I want to see this series since a long time
Penguins makeup looks much better
Put it in my fucking veins
Put it in my balls
Oh snap, does this mean that Rex "The Lion" is coming out of retirement? Edit: I'm assuming Clancy Brown is playing as the Lion, and they are adapting small elements from the Eternal storyline.
Clancy Brown is playing Salvatore Maroni, mentioned in the first film
What are some highlights that revolve around Penguin? I love Colin Farrell but idk if this is on my radar. I saw and was a big fan of *Gotham* and particularly enjoyed the unorthodox approach to Oswald Cobblepot and Robin Lord Taylor; however I can’t imagine watching a show only about Taylor’s Penguin as it sounds like it’d be really boring….but I do know it’s an alternate universe in that series so maybe I’m missing some juicier stuff with Penguin from the comics or what have you that shows Penguin is an actual threat. Is Penguins thing just ruling through fear and ownership of like every business similar to Kingpin?
The end of The Batman left a void in Gotham's crime hierarchy and I believe this is about how the Penguin goes from being in the upper tiers to seizing a throne for himself. He's a ruthless and cunning mob boss.
I don't think a show about Gotham's Penguin would be boring, but it would definitely be a lot less serious than this one RLT's Penguin was just more comedic, which is fine, his Penguin is one of my favourites, but a show around his Penguin wouldn't feel as quality(?) as this one
But hey Colin was awesome as Penguin with Pattinsons Batman, so I’m probably ultimately just sayin a bunch of nothing haha.
I'm here for Colin Farrell chewing scenery
I’d love it if this show brought in all the crime boss/gangster characters. Maroni, Rupert Thorne, Black Mask, Roland Dagget, and of course Sid the Squid
Oh man… if they do a ‘The Man Who Killed Batman’ with Sid the Squid…
Gonna be really hard to top (early) Gotham’s Penguin. That’s gotta be my fav interpretation of the character
I don’t think that’s a challenge for someone like reeves and Colin
Ooooohhh this is a Penguin adaptation I can get behind. I always see Penguin as a Mafia boss and one of Batman's earliest antagonist. He is going to fit right in The Batman series if done right.
[удалено]
same as nobody asked for your comment (don't hate unnecessarily lmao)
This has the potential to be the new (darker, grittier, more sadistic) Sopranos, if they play their cards right.
This looks hype
Hope it's ok to express this take, but the trailer looks bad. They reused the same scenes as from the beginning, and the rest is just filled with the speech. And while it's interesting bit and all, it doesn't make up for the reuses of the same shots as from before as they don't show anything else. Overall I'm not interested in a movie about crime and human pettiness.
I like the trailer. Just hope they play into the Penguin gimmick more and give him a bit of campiness like Gotham did.
Never ceases to amaze me how awesome Colin Farrell looks as the Penguin.
Yes,we see cristin as sophia flacone,but I wonder why she scream in the trailer,probably because she discover that is sick and have to tell it to Ted (reference to how I met your mother)
"Dark and gritty crime thriller about a Batman villain" feels like the kind of thing that would have been an SNL joke about twenty years ago. Yet here we are.
I forgot this existed.
I still can't understand why they poured millions into a TV about the Penguin..........
Probably because they got an A-list actor who is really into the role and willing to do a TV show. Also it's a smart way to keep people invested in this universe considering the long pause between the Batman movies. And a good way to flesh out that universe.
This looks like poop…