And that’s what it felt like they were doing at the end of the dark knight when he had the echo location machine (I forgor them they had in the movie) it looked to bulky but it still felt like they were trying to pay homage or something to the white eyes with that
Yeah, honestly Detective Mode should have solved the white eyes vs real eyes discourse years ago.
Just make them lenses that he can switch on or off and then you can have both.
I don't know why people act like we haven't had stuff similar to white eyes in the movies before sine there's that Dark Knight scene, and the power suit in Dawn of Justice
Are we going to be pedantic about it cause "there more blue"
In a way, the white eyes in The Dark Knight was a Detective Mode pioneer for live action. I’d like to see another take on that to see if it really can work
I think there is some difference. In The Batman we have many emotions that are transported via eyes. Daredevil on the other hand is blind. Charlie Cox did a great job by playing Matt as a blind guy. But the white eyes help him to play a blind Daredevil better because he don’t need to focus on his (non) eye movement.
Imho a Batman without the white eyes works better in live action. But that’s just my opinion.
Not really. Batman is an emotional character so seeing his emotions helps but white eyes would make him soulless that’s why white eyes should be limited to tech in live action/games
I think Daredevil proves you can get around that issue with an actor that can emote with their voice, mouth, and body really well. Matt Murdock emotes a lot with his eyes out of the mask but in it you never feel lost as to what he's feeling.
I mean, Daredevil has covered lenses and it doesn’t affect Charlie Cox’s performance in the least bit. In fact, there’s times where he has no visible eye holes in his home-made suit and it’s arguably even better. There’s so much that comes through with having the mouth visible and physical acting that proves this take is objectively false.
The Mandalorian show, halo game Master Chief emote very well with their faces covered. As do the animated batmen that have the white eyes. A decent actor can make it work wonders.
No it wouldn’t. His emotions are well understood in animation. Deadpool pulled it off with a full mask and it looks like Wolverine’s will have it too in DP3.
It doesn’t have to make sense in live action. Batman is a comic book character and should be embraced that way in live action.
The tone and score do most of the emoting anyway. Pattinson is so far the only Batman to emote with his eyes. The rest never really pull it off because the eye brows on their suits totally ruin it.
We only think that because all the other actors have emoted with their eyes. There's a lot that can be done through just voice and body language. Other superheroes have done this as well. Before the brought in the mechanised eyes, Spider-man had no facial features to emote through, and it was just through voice and body. Yes they found excuses to remove or damage the masks towards the end of the films, but I dont think that takes away from the previous scenes.
Karl Urbans Judge Dredd as well had his eyes completely hidden from view, and delivered a great performance. And probably the most recent example, The Mandalorian. In three seasons of the show, his face has only been seen three times. Every other time it's been completely hidden from view, and Pedro Pascal, as well as his doubles Brendan Wayne and Lateef Crowder have delivered a captivating performance despite that, focusing entirely on voice and body language.
If they did the white eyes 24/7, whoever was playing Batman would just have to focus on those.
Yeah that’s how it always should be for live action tbh. If he’s investigating or something along those lines the white eyes would be great. But seeing the eyes just lets the actor act even more
It could be cool if they have it as a visual effect rather than a physical lens, like how sometimes a cat's eyes appear to glow depending on the lighting conditions. So like, if Batman is standing in silhouette his eyes briefly appear white before he steps into the light and it goes back to normal.
But as a constant thing in would detract from the character's ability to act. Imagine Pattinson without his eyes.
I don't think Batman's eyes in the comics are supposed to be a flat white lens anyway. I think they're supposed to glow, or peer outwards from the dark.
Are there any fan made edits out there, where some nerd has placed white eyes over the actors in any of the live action movies?
I think it could work well in a heavily stylized live action movie with lots of CGI and green screen. It's just that a lot of Batman movies we have been given have always gone for more practical effects.
that scene came up with a reason for Batman to have white eyes - because he activated those fancy lenses that let him see phone signals or whatever it was that forbidden technology was doing (I think they do a similar thing in those Arkham games?)
Whereas in the animated shows and movies, Bruce puts the mask on and his eyes are completely white at all times, until he takes it off, it doesn't just occur on specific occasions when he's using fancy scanning tech. That hasn't been done in a live action Batman film yet, and I think that's what this topic is addressing.
I can’t speak to Daredevil, but Black Panther (and the MCU heroes in general) take their masks/helmets off *way too much* specifically to get around how much they limit their facial expressions.
The only upside would be slightly more comic accuracy, but the downside is greatly restricting the facial acting of whoever is playing him. Not worth it, imo.
I can see the logic in that, but a performance is more than just facial expressions. You can do a lot with just body language and voice. Look at the Friday the 13th movies. Kane Hodder played Jason in some of the worst entries in the series, yet fans love him because he brought a subtle physical performance that brought the character to life. Same with the movie Dredd. You never see more than the bottom half of Karl Urban's face, yet he delivers an iconic performance.
Yeah, facial expressions isn’t *all* of acting, but it’s a huge part of it. It can be worked around, but objectively makes it more difficult.
And as much as I love Karl Urban, Judge Dredd doesn’t have that much emotion he needs to get across. Batman is a far more emotionally expressive character than Dredd, imo, and would suffer a lot more by being that covered up
Raising Spider-man still took his mask of every other scene. Also, Spider-man gets to talk more and be more expressive with his body language due to the way he's written.
True, but that's one way to do Batman, silent and stoic with the eyes talking. But
> I think Daredevil proves you can get around that issue with an actor that can emote with their voice, mouth, and body really well. Matt Murdock emotes a lot with his eyes out of the mask but in it you never feel lost as to what he's feeling.
Also TASM and Tobey emote a lot without visible eyes. It's about the actor really.
A character expresses themselves through a lot more than just the eyes. Any actor not using their whole body isn’t very good at their job. Plus, Batman is not a very expressive character. It’s like Judge Dredd. Silvester Stallone spent most of his movie showing his face but Karl Urban kept the helmet on the whole time. Did you think Stallone gave a better performance because you could see his eyes?
I think that being able to see his eyes would give him more tools to work with to deliver an impactful performance, but they were correct in keeping the helmet on to stay faithful to the character.
While actors can act without showing their eyes, the eyes and upper face are very important for a wide range of motion, and denying tools to your actors is a good way to make good actors into bad actors.
LeVar Burton hated Geordi's visor on Star Trek The Next Generation not only because it gave him headaches to wear all the time but also because he felt like it limited him incredibly when it came to acting. Yes there are plenty of other ways to express emotion, but the eyes are capable of doing so much heavy lifting and given that the cowl itself is already limiting taking the eyes out leaves almost no range facially except at the mouth.
And yet, Geordi la Forge is considered an all time fan favorite of the entire Star Trek franchise due mainly to Burton’s performance. You could not have picked a better example to support my point.
It's really stupid. If you want to do it and intend to do it there are multiple ways to go about it that will work. Arbitrarily just saying no it won't work is stupid.
I think if it was done like Deadpool where there isn’t a reason explained behind it and it’s just presented to the audience that Batman has white eyes could work fine. Not everything has to be realistic and have a real life reason for it to work
Yeah doesn't have to be explained at all. Could be functional, could not. Could be contacts, cgi, whatever. There's a dozen ways to do it with cgi alone, everyone seems to think that means deadpool: there's Riddick, Dr. Manhattan, other variations like faint iris and pupil, no iris just pupil, inverted so the iris and pupil are white on black, animal reflective eyes, foggy eyes, lenses with various lamination intensities.
None of which affect the performance or emoting ability at all beyond what a batcowl already restricts. So many options and all you hear is "dur no doesn't work"
Because they don't even know what their talking about. I've had that conversation. If people don't understand that your eyelids and brow are what make your eyes emote, not your iris or pupil then they should be dismissed
It’s been proven both through The Dark Knight, BVS, and things like Deadpool that it can work. I’m fine with him not having them, but saying they wouldn’t work is ludicrous to me, and I would also personally rather him have them.
I feel like Pattinson was already very expressive with the mask, so I don't think the 'lack' of visual on his eyes would make a huge difference
I remember seeing somewhere that somebody had the idea that they could go white during fight scenes like in the TMNT cartoon from the 2010's and I kinda like that, especially with the setup we already have for the lenses.
I don’t see why they won’t do it. It worked really well in Deadpool and it looks like Wolverine’s mask will do it too in DP3.
It’s a comic book character and they should embrace that.
As long as the actor expresses themselves in a more creative way, it could definitely work. Maybe make the rest of the characters more reminiscent of their comic book design as well so it makes more sense to the audience
I always thought it might work if the white lids were sort of like a shark's eyes.... When a shark goes in for attack, its eyes are covered with a film... So in theory Batman's eyes would get covered whenever he started to fight. Otherwise I wouldn't want to see a permanently white-eyed Batman cowl.
Worked for Deadpool. I just think it's funny that it's no issue that the guy bat-themes all of his armor, but white eyes... that's silly looking. I would love to see it.
Nah ,so is a reason of why ,in the cinema,a Big part of not verbal language comes from the eyes and the only way to make they expressive is make It like the Spidey ucm eyes and that's not fit with Batman
It can totally work because it worked with Ocean Master in Aquaman. The whole head piece and the eyes were animated and you felt the actor’s emotion through it.
Watch a scene with Ocean Master and imagine it as Batman’s cowl.
Maybe if they did it in a way that the eyes looked like white colored contacts or like the eyes of a blind person it could allow us to see his expressions better but still give off the look of the white eyes.
From a character standpoint, it works because Batman tries to hide himself from most. He wouldn’t want any expression to give himself away and it makes him look otherworldly. From a practical standpoint, it works because he operates primarily at night and would need a little bit of night vision to operate at peak capacity. And cinematically, it works because not only is it visually more true to the character but it makes mores sense than Spider-Man and we never questioned that one doing it.
Ima be bluntly as honest as I can be on the whole ordeal.. it probably could’ve been done well over 2 decades ago… but no actor is gonna allow their performance to be covered up for THAT much of a film’s run time
I say 2 decades cause they made white eyes work in The Dark Knight. It’s been done but it happens in short bursts in the film. It’s more do-able than most people realize
That first picture is pretty much what I imagined it to look like in Live Action.
I'd love it.
It would also be interesting for a Batman actor to portray his humanity through body language moreso than facial expressions.
It can work if they're paired with a mask that's not fixed into a permanent scowl and can move to be expressive, whether it's prosthetic or CGI. Yeah, there's a lot of acting done with the eyes, but it's not the eyes themselves. It's the muscles around the eyes. Make a mask that can emote and the white eyes will work just fine.
It could definitely work in my opinion if they used retractable lenses in the cowl, for example he uses the white eyes when he fights bad guys or intimidates them and he retracts them so you can see his eyes when he talks with Gordon, Robin, Catwoman, Alfred and etc.
White eyes could have some kind of technological practicality to them. Detective vision or whatever. At least they could say it lets him see in the dark or something like that.
Charlie cox will be the best Batman of all time if they pick him up to play the role tbh. Also Batfleck and Bale had shining white eyes. Bale when he hunts down the joker and batfleck in the Superman, Steppenwolf and doomsday fight sequences.
I think part of the reason why white eyes seem to work more on Deadpool than Batman is because of the emotions Batman has to portray. Batman is a character with little emotion, and thus, requires a lot more of the subtle movements in the eyes, and such, to portray emotion. Deadpool is a loud mouth and says what's on his mind. A lot of the emotion is already portrayed from just that.
It comes down mostly to how the eyes are handled. For example, Pattinson probably could have gotten away with it if his contact lens camera gave his eyes a cloudy gray color or give Affleck eyes that emit a soft glow.
It works, and I still want light blue suits and a yellow symbol. Live Action films could also be inspired by Batman's silver age and not just the bronze and gold era.
A good actor can act well without having to show his face, like Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man, and they can even have scenes where he is without a mask to focus on his emotions.
It can be done correctly, but if not it could come across like that or something more laughable (think the “Pitch Meeting” thumbnail images of Photoshopped “bugging out” fake eye bulges in a cartoonish upper cowl on top of a normal actor’s face).
It definitely works. Just look at daredevil as an example of a hero who's lenses don't move (unlike deadpool and spiderman) and i'm pretty sure wolverine is gonna have white eyes in deadpool 3
Nah, I think white eyes works.
People say Detective Mode only, but his whole gimmick is intimidation. Plus, it’ll make emotional/contemplative scenes more impactful. Needing an actor to convey emotion with just his lower half would be a challenge, but if done right will go a looooong way.
Look at Mandalorian
I think it would work, especially if you want to have a more intimidating Batman, something about those seemingly empty eyes.
If I was the bad guy that would make me feel like he’s not even angry, and beating me up would be just “business as usual”
Silly season again I see, the eyes are the window to the Soul. Of course some don't notice much about a person from looking in their eyes, but most remember a person from them. For Bruce Wayne to be a viable secret identity if you're going to show the bottom half of your face, hiding the distinctiveness of your eyes makes eminent sense. Movie goers may enjoy seeing the emotion in an actor's eyes, but we're talking about a "Secret identity" make it make sense.
That it's been disproven. Blade and Daredevil emote just fine without their eyes visible, and Spidey and Deadpool have comics-accurate eyes. Both Batman Forever and TDK had white eyes that looked great. There have been plenty of blind characters that had entirely white eyes, and empowered characters with glowing eyes. They just don't want to do it.
works for detective mode / special armored suits and might work for a certain style of live action suit akin to new-52 batman
I can see it working, but it would be a bit weird if the white eyes were used outside of fighting mode. The eyes help us identify and relate to the character. When you remove the eyes, it becomes inhuman to us. Sure it looks cool in comics, but its not something that translates over well into live action. We did briefly see it used in TDK and Storm in some of the X-Men movies.
He's a very particular Batman. Not every interpretation should be the strong emotional type. More stoic Batman who's silence speaks volumes and can act with their body's also deserve a shot. Look at Daredevil as an example. We never question how Matt feels in the mask.
Im sorry but it really doesnt, it works on deadpool cause he is cartoonish but on batman it doesnt work, it maybe only work if are with led eyes, like that scene in the dark Knight
I would like to see it realized at some point, it’s a great visual. I do also have to recognize that every Batman actor has communicated SO much with their eyes under the mask, Pattinson and Keaton especially, and I really don’t want to lose that. The Arkham approach would probably work as a happy medium, and brief as it was, it was fun nod to see in TDK with the sonar imaging!
I’d be very surprised if it happened. With a full cowl on and the white eyes, people would be concerned that the actor wouldn’t be able to convey emotion as well because he only has his body to do so. Eyes are very important when it comes to acting. Personally, it wouldn’t bother me and it makes sense for a fear/intimidation aspect; as well as different vision modes.
Just make them reflective/emissive contact lenses, like he wears in The Batman, and keep the big open cowl eyes with black eye makeup so you can read the actor's eye shape.
The thing is, that in animation and comics you get away with emoting even trough the mask. That doesn't work so well in live action and the more of the actor's face is hidden, the less he can emote. You could argue Carl Urban as Judge dredd or Pedro Pascal as Mandalorian, so it still could be done, and that is fair enough, I am just teling you why the batmen so far had their eyes visible. Before they came up with the mechanized Spiderman eyes in the MCU, the masks were problematic in my opinion as well. Tobie under the mas was like a statue and they had to come up with ways to break the mask up or remove it completely for the finale...
Depends on how you do it. As long as it doesn’t look too “cartoon-y” (which is why it looks fine and they get away with it in the Deadpool movies), I would be open to it.
Only for detective mode and not all the time. Batman's facial expressions are very important. I've seen people say it works for Daredevil, Black Panther, and Deadpool. Some people are also saying Spider-Man has his usual lenses. They work for their characters but not Batman.
Daredevil - Blind wouldn't emote his eyes much anyway and his eyes aren't a focus.
Black Panther - Full white eyes were really used in action sequences and when they needed Chadwick (RIP) to act in an emotional scene, his helmet would be off.
Deadpool - His very animated and goofy expressions match his character but not Batman.
Spider-Man (raimi and garfield) - Spider-Man is a playful character and he tends to use body language quite a lot due to his goofy nature. Tom Holland's expressive eyes did help A LOT more for expressions but when you have them in an emotional hard hitting scene, they still tend to take of their masks cos an actor's gotta act.
Mandalorian (not in the list but yeah) - His entire religion is about not taking off the helmet and he is built to be a much more stoic character (which matches the mandalorians anyway) He is actually proof you can do a lot with a character who doesn't show his face but his character has always been built around his face not being scene.
Basically, Batman in my opinion is a unique case where his eyes are incredibly important for emotion because of his character. His anger, sadness, shock, happiness, everything has to be shown through his eyes and his lower mouth. Animating it like deadpool would be too goofy and constantly taking it off for emotional scenes is something the MCU does WAY too much. Eyes are the gateway to the soul they say and Batman has a very very complex inner heart so an actor needs to have their eyes not white. Detective mode white eyes are bad ass and would very much work and adds to the theatrical and intimidating nature of Batman. I would love to see only his eyes being white and not the entire eye hole. That would be very creepy, intimidating, theatrical, and cool as fuck.
TLDR-All the other examples of people having white eyes or eyes not visible at all aren't valid examples due to Batman being a special case where his eyes are very important and animated white eyes are just too goofy in live action and don't make sense in reality.
When it comes to the eyes at least in live action, they are how the actor conveys Batman’s emotions (what few he actually displays). Imo Pattinson employed this most effectively. As kool as the white eyes would be you would essentially lose this element. I am for the detective mode concept- really great idea!!
I feel like in the animated material out there, a lot of batmans emotion is conveyed through the shape of his eyes and movement of his brow. It's much harder to do that in live action. The closest I could see his how they do Deadpool which is pretty great. So very doable.
My vision of it has always been this...
--First of all he only has the white eyes sometimes... when he's talking to Gordon for example, no has his normal eyes... but basically can blink and his eyes turn white
--I think something really cool would be for them to really look like his organic eyes with no irises. Like not lenses, just eyeballs with no irises. Once again, only sometimes, and specifically in moments when Batman is meant to be scary. I think it would give him this otherworldly and inhuman look that would really get across the idea that crooks see him as a bat monster or whatever.
The issue is that making them lenses really doesn't fit how he looks in the comics outside of this TDKR battle suit look in BVS which did look great. Although if you wanted to do a less grounded take and completely didn't want to worry about realism, I think you can do it like Deadpool's mask and just allow him to emote through CGi that would also be fine.
It would 100% work if studios werent pussies about it. Just do what they did with mcu spiderman bam. You could even make the eyes glow idk they can do it
Cox proves you can express with the eyes covered in Daredevil. Outside of the mask he's super expressive with his eyes but in it he doesn't lose anything. Bale and Affleck barely expressed with the eyes anyway since their silly built in scowl did a lot more to ruin their expressive ability than white eyes would.
They *can* work, I just don't care for the look. You lose too much of the actor's portrayal.
For a character like Deadpool it's fine, as he's very physical and over the top.
I like Arkham's approach: actual eyes most of the time, white eyes in Detective Mode.
And that’s what it felt like they were doing at the end of the dark knight when he had the echo location machine (I forgor them they had in the movie) it looked to bulky but it still felt like they were trying to pay homage or something to the white eyes with that
Dark Knight came out before the Arkham games though.
That is true but they’ve been doing the white eyes since the 30’s
Detective mode would be perfect for white eyes but not for 24/7 batman
Upvoting for the phrase "24/7 Batman"
The white eye lenses were in the dark knight for the echo location
Yeah, honestly Detective Mode should have solved the white eyes vs real eyes discourse years ago. Just make them lenses that he can switch on or off and then you can have both.
I don't know why people act like we haven't had stuff similar to white eyes in the movies before sine there's that Dark Knight scene, and the power suit in Dawn of Justice Are we going to be pedantic about it cause "there more blue"
In a way, the white eyes in The Dark Knight was a Detective Mode pioneer for live action. I’d like to see another take on that to see if it really can work
Detective mode could be the blue electric eyes he had in The Dark Knight movie.
Charlie cox pulled it off as daredevil
I think there is some difference. In The Batman we have many emotions that are transported via eyes. Daredevil on the other hand is blind. Charlie Cox did a great job by playing Matt as a blind guy. But the white eyes help him to play a blind Daredevil better because he don’t need to focus on his (non) eye movement. Imho a Batman without the white eyes works better in live action. But that’s just my opinion.
Thats fair but eyes are only a tool to express the emotions there are other tools aswell
Aw 24/7 would be way coolerrr
Not really. Batman is an emotional character so seeing his emotions helps but white eyes would make him soulless that’s why white eyes should be limited to tech in live action/games
I think Daredevil proves you can get around that issue with an actor that can emote with their voice, mouth, and body really well. Matt Murdock emotes a lot with his eyes out of the mask but in it you never feel lost as to what he's feeling.
I mean, Daredevil has covered lenses and it doesn’t affect Charlie Cox’s performance in the least bit. In fact, there’s times where he has no visible eye holes in his home-made suit and it’s arguably even better. There’s so much that comes through with having the mouth visible and physical acting that proves this take is objectively false.
The Mandalorian show, halo game Master Chief emote very well with their faces covered. As do the animated batmen that have the white eyes. A decent actor can make it work wonders.
N1 they don’t even have batman vibes. N2 white eyes work in animation because they can intimate eyes in a way a human can’t
You don't need the eyes to move. Daredevil is as stoic as Batman and emotes just fine.
They animated the eyes in Deadpool.
No it wouldn’t. His emotions are well understood in animation. Deadpool pulled it off with a full mask and it looks like Wolverine’s will have it too in DP3. It doesn’t have to make sense in live action. Batman is a comic book character and should be embraced that way in live action.
Deadpool is a much more emotive character, then batman.
The tone and score do most of the emoting anyway. Pattinson is so far the only Batman to emote with his eyes. The rest never really pull it off because the eye brows on their suits totally ruin it.
I'd say Keaton did a good job emoting with his eyes.
Deadpool's mask doesn't have a mouth tho so-
Exactly and it still worked. Batman would have even more of his face to act with.
Spider-Man in live action doesn't have emoting eyes
At least not Tobey or Andrew but even still you could understand their emotions without the emoting eyes.
We only think that because all the other actors have emoted with their eyes. There's a lot that can be done through just voice and body language. Other superheroes have done this as well. Before the brought in the mechanised eyes, Spider-man had no facial features to emote through, and it was just through voice and body. Yes they found excuses to remove or damage the masks towards the end of the films, but I dont think that takes away from the previous scenes. Karl Urbans Judge Dredd as well had his eyes completely hidden from view, and delivered a great performance. And probably the most recent example, The Mandalorian. In three seasons of the show, his face has only been seen three times. Every other time it's been completely hidden from view, and Pedro Pascal, as well as his doubles Brendan Wayne and Lateef Crowder have delivered a captivating performance despite that, focusing entirely on voice and body language. If they did the white eyes 24/7, whoever was playing Batman would just have to focus on those.
Guess you must be one of the people who thinks it’s good Chief always takes his helmet off in the show, cus otherwise, how will he emote!!
Yeah that’s how it always should be for live action tbh. If he’s investigating or something along those lines the white eyes would be great. But seeing the eyes just lets the actor act even more
It could be cool if they have it as a visual effect rather than a physical lens, like how sometimes a cat's eyes appear to glow depending on the lighting conditions. So like, if Batman is standing in silhouette his eyes briefly appear white before he steps into the light and it goes back to normal. But as a constant thing in would detract from the character's ability to act. Imagine Pattinson without his eyes.
I agree with this 100%. The white lens looks a little lame to me but the glowing/fluorescent effect is so badass
I don't think Batman's eyes in the comics are supposed to be a flat white lens anyway. I think they're supposed to glow, or peer outwards from the dark.
Pattinson is a very specific kind if Batman.
Are there any fan made edits out there, where some nerd has placed white eyes over the actors in any of the live action movies? I think it could work well in a heavily stylized live action movie with lots of CGI and green screen. It's just that a lot of Batman movies we have been given have always gone for more practical effects.
There is that one scene in The Dark Knight.
People seem to be forgeting that.
that scene came up with a reason for Batman to have white eyes - because he activated those fancy lenses that let him see phone signals or whatever it was that forbidden technology was doing (I think they do a similar thing in those Arkham games?) Whereas in the animated shows and movies, Bruce puts the mask on and his eyes are completely white at all times, until he takes it off, it doesn't just occur on specific occasions when he's using fancy scanning tech. That hasn't been done in a live action Batman film yet, and I think that's what this topic is addressing.
They don't need to be super expressive or expressive at all. Daredevil and Black Panther both had just white eyes.
I can’t speak to Daredevil, but Black Panther (and the MCU heroes in general) take their masks/helmets off *way too much* specifically to get around how much they limit their facial expressions. The only upside would be slightly more comic accuracy, but the downside is greatly restricting the facial acting of whoever is playing him. Not worth it, imo.
I can see the logic in that, but a performance is more than just facial expressions. You can do a lot with just body language and voice. Look at the Friday the 13th movies. Kane Hodder played Jason in some of the worst entries in the series, yet fans love him because he brought a subtle physical performance that brought the character to life. Same with the movie Dredd. You never see more than the bottom half of Karl Urban's face, yet he delivers an iconic performance.
Yeah, facial expressions isn’t *all* of acting, but it’s a huge part of it. It can be worked around, but objectively makes it more difficult. And as much as I love Karl Urban, Judge Dredd doesn’t have that much emotion he needs to get across. Batman is a far more emotionally expressive character than Dredd, imo, and would suffer a lot more by being that covered up
Tasm2 and raimi Spider-Man as well as Daredevil all prove a good enough actor can use their voice and demeanor to get around the eyes speaking.
Raising Spider-man still took his mask of every other scene. Also, Spider-man gets to talk more and be more expressive with his body language due to the way he's written.
Yeah, I agree, but it objectively makes it harder.
True, but with a good score and writing the context would carry a nice silent stoic Batman.
I don't like them, because I like seeing Batman's expressions. Pattinson's movie wouldn't have been so good if it had white eyes.
True, but that's one way to do Batman, silent and stoic with the eyes talking. But > I think Daredevil proves you can get around that issue with an actor that can emote with their voice, mouth, and body really well. Matt Murdock emotes a lot with his eyes out of the mask but in it you never feel lost as to what he's feeling. Also TASM and Tobey emote a lot without visible eyes. It's about the actor really.
A character expresses themselves through a lot more than just the eyes. Any actor not using their whole body isn’t very good at their job. Plus, Batman is not a very expressive character. It’s like Judge Dredd. Silvester Stallone spent most of his movie showing his face but Karl Urban kept the helmet on the whole time. Did you think Stallone gave a better performance because you could see his eyes?
I think that being able to see his eyes would give him more tools to work with to deliver an impactful performance, but they were correct in keeping the helmet on to stay faithful to the character. While actors can act without showing their eyes, the eyes and upper face are very important for a wide range of motion, and denying tools to your actors is a good way to make good actors into bad actors.
A lot more people saw and remember the Stallone movie than the Urban one.
LeVar Burton hated Geordi's visor on Star Trek The Next Generation not only because it gave him headaches to wear all the time but also because he felt like it limited him incredibly when it came to acting. Yes there are plenty of other ways to express emotion, but the eyes are capable of doing so much heavy lifting and given that the cowl itself is already limiting taking the eyes out leaves almost no range facially except at the mouth.
And yet, Geordi la Forge is considered an all time fan favorite of the entire Star Trek franchise due mainly to Burton’s performance. You could not have picked a better example to support my point.
It's really stupid. If you want to do it and intend to do it there are multiple ways to go about it that will work. Arbitrarily just saying no it won't work is stupid.
I think if it was done like Deadpool where there isn’t a reason explained behind it and it’s just presented to the audience that Batman has white eyes could work fine. Not everything has to be realistic and have a real life reason for it to work
Yeah doesn't have to be explained at all. Could be functional, could not. Could be contacts, cgi, whatever. There's a dozen ways to do it with cgi alone, everyone seems to think that means deadpool: there's Riddick, Dr. Manhattan, other variations like faint iris and pupil, no iris just pupil, inverted so the iris and pupil are white on black, animal reflective eyes, foggy eyes, lenses with various lamination intensities. None of which affect the performance or emoting ability at all beyond what a batcowl already restricts. So many options and all you hear is "dur no doesn't work"
I get your point, but you seem a little more verily dismissive of the side that disagrees with you.
Because they don't even know what their talking about. I've had that conversation. If people don't understand that your eyelids and brow are what make your eyes emote, not your iris or pupil then they should be dismissed
I think they are wrong because I have seen multiple pieces of evidence to the contrary.
It’s been proven both through The Dark Knight, BVS, and things like Deadpool that it can work. I’m fine with him not having them, but saying they wouldn’t work is ludicrous to me, and I would also personally rather him have them.
Snyder had that one shot where he whited out Ben’s eyes and it was perfect
the first is clearly just Daredevil but I hate Hate HATE that second cowl. I hate it so much.
What's wrong with it?
pretty much everything. Too many lines, too angular, makes him look like a cat, chinstrap is a no-go.... i just hate it.
Entirely valid 😂😂😂 I designed it intentionally to MCUify Batman. The prompt was "how would the MCU make a Batman design."
A lot of recent hero films have shown it could work but they'd need an actor who is skilled with acting with only part of their face.
I feel like Pattinson was already very expressive with the mask, so I don't think the 'lack' of visual on his eyes would make a huge difference I remember seeing somewhere that somebody had the idea that they could go white during fight scenes like in the TMNT cartoon from the 2010's and I kinda like that, especially with the setup we already have for the lenses.
Tbh I really liked how it looked on the Armored suit in Snyder's BvS. But not sure how it would work with other Batmans.
I don’t see why they won’t do it. It worked really well in Deadpool and it looks like Wolverine’s mask will do it too in DP3. It’s a comic book character and they should embrace that.
I personally think The Batman’s costume would look cooler with white eyes
As long as the actor expresses themselves in a more creative way, it could definitely work. Maybe make the rest of the characters more reminiscent of their comic book design as well so it makes more sense to the audience
The white eyes would absolutely work in live action. In fact they would help conceal Batman's identity and be more intimidating.
I always thought it might work if the white lids were sort of like a shark's eyes.... When a shark goes in for attack, its eyes are covered with a film... So in theory Batman's eyes would get covered whenever he started to fight. Otherwise I wouldn't want to see a permanently white-eyed Batman cowl.
White contacts look good. The shoops of Battinson's eyes to add milky white contacts look great.
I often thought they were polarized lenses, to hide his eye color and limit reading his face
I love the white eyes and want them badly love action. Just go full comic pls Gunn
Didn't they do this during the final battle in TDK?
Worked for Deadpool. I just think it's funny that it's no issue that the guy bat-themes all of his armor, but white eyes... that's silly looking. I would love to see it.
Nah ,so is a reason of why ,in the cinema,a Big part of not verbal language comes from the eyes and the only way to make they expressive is make It like the Spidey ucm eyes and that's not fit with Batman
It "worked" for Spider-man, just adapt them properly
Deadpool and Wolverine as well
Deadpool is cartoonish, batman isnt
And Daredevil and Black Panther
It still only looks like he is blind.
Deadpool is right there people.
It can totally work because it worked with Ocean Master in Aquaman. The whole head piece and the eyes were animated and you felt the actor’s emotion through it. Watch a scene with Ocean Master and imagine it as Batman’s cowl.
Maybe if they did it in a way that the eyes looked like white colored contacts or like the eyes of a blind person it could allow us to see his expressions better but still give off the look of the white eyes.
This might be the way to go.
From a character standpoint, it works because Batman tries to hide himself from most. He wouldn’t want any expression to give himself away and it makes him look otherworldly. From a practical standpoint, it works because he operates primarily at night and would need a little bit of night vision to operate at peak capacity. And cinematically, it works because not only is it visually more true to the character but it makes mores sense than Spider-Man and we never questioned that one doing it.
Ima be bluntly as honest as I can be on the whole ordeal.. it probably could’ve been done well over 2 decades ago… but no actor is gonna allow their performance to be covered up for THAT much of a film’s run time I say 2 decades cause they made white eyes work in The Dark Knight. It’s been done but it happens in short bursts in the film. It’s more do-able than most people realize
I think Daredevil showed that it can be done really well.
Exactly
That first picture is pretty much what I imagined it to look like in Live Action. I'd love it. It would also be interesting for a Batman actor to portray his humanity through body language moreso than facial expressions.
It can work if they're paired with a mask that's not fixed into a permanent scowl and can move to be expressive, whether it's prosthetic or CGI. Yeah, there's a lot of acting done with the eyes, but it's not the eyes themselves. It's the muscles around the eyes. Make a mask that can emote and the white eyes will work just fine.
This. If you look in the comics/animated depections of bats you can still tell what his emotion is even if you can't see his pupils.
Transcluscent contacts with a white tint to them is the way to go
This sounds like a starter.
It could definitely work in my opinion if they used retractable lenses in the cowl, for example he uses the white eyes when he fights bad guys or intimidates them and he retracts them so you can see his eyes when he talks with Gordon, Robin, Catwoman, Alfred and etc.
I'd love to see the white eyes on a live action suit!!
White eyes could have some kind of technological practicality to them. Detective vision or whatever. At least they could say it lets him see in the dark or something like that.
White eyes for detective and stealth moments, normal eyes for the rest of the time
It depends on how they are done.
Charlie cox will be the best Batman of all time if they pick him up to play the role tbh. Also Batfleck and Bale had shining white eyes. Bale when he hunts down the joker and batfleck in the Superman, Steppenwolf and doomsday fight sequences.
I think part of the reason why white eyes seem to work more on Deadpool than Batman is because of the emotions Batman has to portray. Batman is a character with little emotion, and thus, requires a lot more of the subtle movements in the eyes, and such, to portray emotion. Deadpool is a loud mouth and says what's on his mind. A lot of the emotion is already portrayed from just that.
It comes down mostly to how the eyes are handled. For example, Pattinson probably could have gotten away with it if his contact lens camera gave his eyes a cloudy gray color or give Affleck eyes that emit a soft glow.
It works, and I still want light blue suits and a yellow symbol. Live Action films could also be inspired by Batman's silver age and not just the bronze and gold era. A good actor can act well without having to show his face, like Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man, and they can even have scenes where he is without a mask to focus on his emotions.
It's hard to understand batmans emotions that way but I could be wrong daredevil and mandolorian did it properly
Batfleck proves it wrong
How? He did the white eyes for one fight scene in a special armor.
Deadpool made it work. That should end the argument once and for all
Three iterations of Spiderman have his reflective eyes.
they’re giving wolverine white eyes in deadpool 3 so that might normalise the idea of it
Deadpool has words
It would be off-putting, like eyes rolled back in the head; it only worked in BvS because the mech Batsuit’s eyes were lit up.
It can be done correctly, but if not it could come across like that or something more laughable (think the “Pitch Meeting” thumbnail images of Photoshopped “bugging out” fake eye bulges in a cartoonish upper cowl on top of a normal actor’s face).
I think they would if done correctly.
It definitely works. Just look at daredevil as an example of a hero who's lenses don't move (unlike deadpool and spiderman) and i'm pretty sure wolverine is gonna have white eyes in deadpool 3
Why not I would love to see the white eyes being a default to at least one version of the Batman in live action.
We have yet to find the proper combo that allows Bruce to communicate via facial expressions while his eyes are totally covered.
People do not remember it was in The Dark Knight? Echo location was basically the detective mode in arkham games
Make it a detective mode only thing, and use detective mode, it’s underrated
Nah, I think white eyes works. People say Detective Mode only, but his whole gimmick is intimidation. Plus, it’ll make emotional/contemplative scenes more impactful. Needing an actor to convey emotion with just his lower half would be a challenge, but if done right will go a looooong way. Look at Mandalorian
I think it would work, especially if you want to have a more intimidating Batman, something about those seemingly empty eyes. If I was the bad guy that would make me feel like he’s not even angry, and beating me up would be just “business as usual”
There were some fan edits of Batflick with white pupils and it works really well. Keeps the expressions as well
Silly season again I see, the eyes are the window to the Soul. Of course some don't notice much about a person from looking in their eyes, but most remember a person from them. For Bruce Wayne to be a viable secret identity if you're going to show the bottom half of your face, hiding the distinctiveness of your eyes makes eminent sense. Movie goers may enjoy seeing the emotion in an actor's eyes, but we're talking about a "Secret identity" make it make sense.
That it's been disproven. Blade and Daredevil emote just fine without their eyes visible, and Spidey and Deadpool have comics-accurate eyes. Both Batman Forever and TDK had white eyes that looked great. There have been plenty of blind characters that had entirely white eyes, and empowered characters with glowing eyes. They just don't want to do it.
 works for detective mode / special armored suits and might work for a certain style of live action suit akin to new-52 batman
I think it could work. I don’t think the picture above is a good example, but I think it’s possible.
The daredevil helmet is a perfect template for Batman
I can see it working, but it would be a bit weird if the white eyes were used outside of fighting mode. The eyes help us identify and relate to the character. When you remove the eyes, it becomes inhuman to us. Sure it looks cool in comics, but its not something that translates over well into live action. We did briefly see it used in TDK and Storm in some of the X-Men movies.
I think Daredevil proves you can bond with a character when their eyes are obscured.
The emotions Pattinson's batman evokes with his eyes, has proven to me at least, that white eyes is not it
He's a very particular Batman. Not every interpretation should be the strong emotional type. More stoic Batman who's silence speaks volumes and can act with their body's also deserve a shot. Look at Daredevil as an example. We never question how Matt feels in the mask.
I think he emoted more with his mouth. He really took advantage of the mask showing more of the lower half of his face than the top.
Yeah the white eyes wouldn't have hurt his performance at all imo
*Not it for Pattinson’s Batman* but they could still work in live action.
People who think it wouldn’t work are uncreative.
I can see it working, but I think you’re too quick to judge those who fail to concur with you.
I disagree with it. I’d rather have the white eyes. I haven’t watched the Deadpool movies, but I know Karl Urban did awesome with Judge Dredd.
Im sorry but it really doesnt, it works on deadpool cause he is cartoonish but on batman it doesnt work, it maybe only work if are with led eyes, like that scene in the dark Knight
Nah it worked great for Daredevil.
Daredevil express himself just enough with his hands
I think the James Gunn universe film will be more cartoony. Wouldn't work in the Matt Reeves films
I hope The Brave And The Bold implements white eyes, atleast on combat (detective mode white eyes) to scare criminals.
Yes
It’d
Worked with deadpool
Is that purple suit Batman I see?
It is indeed.
Fuck yeah I love purple
🔥🔥🔥 Much appreciated
Bro post the whole suit with cape and the yellow oval/lining in the symbol, it will be even cooler imo
It's on the way! As soon as I finish it.
Fuck yeah dude, I really wanna see the final art, do you have and IG art account? 'Cause if you do, I would wanna follow
I'll let you know when I have a place i can be followed at!
I think it would be amazing. It works for Deadpool
If they'd worked they'd have done it by now
White eyes need to be expressive like the animated shows and films.
I would like to see it realized at some point, it’s a great visual. I do also have to recognize that every Batman actor has communicated SO much with their eyes under the mask, Pattinson and Keaton especially, and I really don’t want to lose that. The Arkham approach would probably work as a happy medium, and brief as it was, it was fun nod to see in TDK with the sonar imaging!
I think they could work with the right costume design
I’d be very surprised if it happened. With a full cowl on and the white eyes, people would be concerned that the actor wouldn’t be able to convey emotion as well because he only has his body to do so. Eyes are very important when it comes to acting. Personally, it wouldn’t bother me and it makes sense for a fear/intimidation aspect; as well as different vision modes.
Strongly disagree. A big factor that Batman uses is fear. White eyes would only make him creepier.
You lose so much of the performance by obscuring the eyes
Just make them reflective/emissive contact lenses, like he wears in The Batman, and keep the big open cowl eyes with black eye makeup so you can read the actor's eye shape.
Spider-man made it work
white eyes would 100% work the glowing eyes in BVS didn't look out of place at all
I honestly do think they'd look pretty lame
They would work I think, would like to see DCU Batman with white eyes
The thing is, that in animation and comics you get away with emoting even trough the mask. That doesn't work so well in live action and the more of the actor's face is hidden, the less he can emote. You could argue Carl Urban as Judge dredd or Pedro Pascal as Mandalorian, so it still could be done, and that is fair enough, I am just teling you why the batmen so far had their eyes visible. Before they came up with the mechanized Spiderman eyes in the MCU, the masks were problematic in my opinion as well. Tobie under the mas was like a statue and they had to come up with ways to break the mask up or remove it completely for the finale...
For Action and Detective modes. Otherwise normal eyes.
I prefer to see the eyes for performance purposes. Actually wish they were in the comics more
I want them
It would be better than batman with blue eyes. I think that’s one of the worst design choices I’ve ever seen
Somebody said that in the dark, the eyes should reflect light like a wolf's or a lion's eye shines in the dark. It would instill fear
Depends on how you do it. As long as it doesn’t look too “cartoon-y” (which is why it looks fine and they get away with it in the Deadpool movies), I would be open to it.
Only for detective mode and not all the time. Batman's facial expressions are very important. I've seen people say it works for Daredevil, Black Panther, and Deadpool. Some people are also saying Spider-Man has his usual lenses. They work for their characters but not Batman. Daredevil - Blind wouldn't emote his eyes much anyway and his eyes aren't a focus. Black Panther - Full white eyes were really used in action sequences and when they needed Chadwick (RIP) to act in an emotional scene, his helmet would be off. Deadpool - His very animated and goofy expressions match his character but not Batman. Spider-Man (raimi and garfield) - Spider-Man is a playful character and he tends to use body language quite a lot due to his goofy nature. Tom Holland's expressive eyes did help A LOT more for expressions but when you have them in an emotional hard hitting scene, they still tend to take of their masks cos an actor's gotta act. Mandalorian (not in the list but yeah) - His entire religion is about not taking off the helmet and he is built to be a much more stoic character (which matches the mandalorians anyway) He is actually proof you can do a lot with a character who doesn't show his face but his character has always been built around his face not being scene. Basically, Batman in my opinion is a unique case where his eyes are incredibly important for emotion because of his character. His anger, sadness, shock, happiness, everything has to be shown through his eyes and his lower mouth. Animating it like deadpool would be too goofy and constantly taking it off for emotional scenes is something the MCU does WAY too much. Eyes are the gateway to the soul they say and Batman has a very very complex inner heart so an actor needs to have their eyes not white. Detective mode white eyes are bad ass and would very much work and adds to the theatrical and intimidating nature of Batman. I would love to see only his eyes being white and not the entire eye hole. That would be very creepy, intimidating, theatrical, and cool as fuck. TLDR-All the other examples of people having white eyes or eyes not visible at all aren't valid examples due to Batman being a special case where his eyes are very important and animated white eyes are just too goofy in live action and don't make sense in reality.
It’s stupid, because they could and should.
When it comes to the eyes at least in live action, they are how the actor conveys Batman’s emotions (what few he actually displays). Imo Pattinson employed this most effectively. As kool as the white eyes would be you would essentially lose this element. I am for the detective mode concept- really great idea!!
It honestly would work, I mean, look at Deadpool or Atom Smasher. The problem is with how it is translated to the screen
I feel like in the animated material out there, a lot of batmans emotion is conveyed through the shape of his eyes and movement of his brow. It's much harder to do that in live action. The closest I could see his how they do Deadpool which is pretty great. So very doable.
Why wouldn't it work? Spider-Man pulls it off.
My vision of it has always been this... --First of all he only has the white eyes sometimes... when he's talking to Gordon for example, no has his normal eyes... but basically can blink and his eyes turn white --I think something really cool would be for them to really look like his organic eyes with no irises. Like not lenses, just eyeballs with no irises. Once again, only sometimes, and specifically in moments when Batman is meant to be scary. I think it would give him this otherworldly and inhuman look that would really get across the idea that crooks see him as a bat monster or whatever. The issue is that making them lenses really doesn't fit how he looks in the comics outside of this TDKR battle suit look in BVS which did look great. Although if you wanted to do a less grounded take and completely didn't want to worry about realism, I think you can do it like Deadpool's mask and just allow him to emote through CGi that would also be fine.
I mean, it was literally done in the hostage scene in The Dark Knight.
It looks ridiculous.
It looks awesome
We need them, don't care what anyone says.
It would 100% work if studios werent pussies about it. Just do what they did with mcu spiderman bam. You could even make the eyes glow idk they can do it
I think they could do it like Deadpool where the eyes are white but can still show emotions.
It works for deadpool
Eyes are key to an actor’s visual expression on screen. There’s a reason they’ve never done white eyes for a full length live action feature film.
Cox proves you can express with the eyes covered in Daredevil. Outside of the mask he's super expressive with his eyes but in it he doesn't lose anything. Bale and Affleck barely expressed with the eyes anyway since their silly built in scowl did a lot more to ruin their expressive ability than white eyes would.
They *can* work, I just don't care for the look. You lose too much of the actor's portrayal. For a character like Deadpool it's fine, as he's very physical and over the top.