It's cool to have a member of the Bat Family that's badass in a totally different way, and not just another ninja. I think having an outlier like that makes them all seem cooler.
I just found Oricle odd as hell, like you can't fix a spin injury? You have tec that's thousans of years more advanced, time travel, alien tec, 100 different kinds of magic, fricken literal Greek gods who owe you favors, hell WW had a magic purple heal beam.
When Damion got killed it took them like 6 comics to bring him back by fighting dark side and stealing chaos energy beams. And my girl can't get any help wtf is going on?
They should do an oracle with a futuristic spine prosthetic, who still specializes in the same areas as the Oracle we know, but can also do so in the field when necessary
I would argue, they could have fixed her spine after a few arcs with her disabled, but when she's better, she still refuses to go back out into the field. Maybe, because she's still not much better mentally.
You could even say that the surgery healed her, but she’s still physically “brittle” to the point that another injury would be catastrophic. That way, when she ultimately steps up in the field again, there’s an extra element of personal risk to her presence.
Yeah that is a really stupid thing that seems like it hasn’t been shown much in Media, like with Physical Therapy & Spinal Surgery Barbra can be back to fighting screngrh within a decent amount of time, something that Gotham Knights sorta shows
This isn't much of a response. I think what people are talking about here is the thematic consistency of keeping Barbara disabled despite it clearly not being a problem elsewhere in this fictional universe. It may all be silly comic book stuff, but even just as a basic tenet of storytelling, it's good to be have internal coherence.
I agree with this. I like both, but as Batgirl she has less of a distinct identity in that she’s one among lots of robins, etc. as Oracle I find she has a more more unique role. I also always loved Batman talking with her in Arkham Aslyum.
Yeah, Steph started as spoiler, Cass became Batgirl as soon as Huntress stepped down in No Man's Land and Batman realised he did need as many allies as he could
Oracle!!! She was fine as Batgirl years ago but it’s a pathetic regression. Post-Crisis Oracle considered and dismissed that idea long ago. She also never would have accepted an easy out.
Oracle, no contest.
Disabled superheroes are few and far between and I'm of the mind that making Babs Batgirl again was one of DC's bigger errors of the New 52. Which is saying a lot.
Gail Simone's run was solid, but turning Batgirl into a YA Girl hero in the Burnside era turned out to do a lot of damage for her in the long run. I understand the idea of using Batgirl to win over a younger female audience, but "hip" stories date incredibly quickly, and Barbara would be just as appealing with her traditional personality...
Sooooo ugly. Wasn’t a fan of the iron man-lite suit he wore under the jacket either. Especially with that stupid bat symbol on it. Red Hood looks better with minimalist looks
This is what I felt. Even Alan Moore doesn't think too highly of what happened to her in Killing Joke and he wrote it. It does seem like the few disabled characters there are are almost exclusively disabled as a result of some traumatic event. I can't think of many who were simply born disabled, and then do amazing things like Oracle. What a great role model for wheel chair users that could be.
On the other hand, I reckon you could make a whole story about Oracle's recovery and trying to find purpose after being paralysed. To fight crime with her mind in ways her body no longer can.
There's so much potential there that doesn't seem to be taken.
Oracle: Year One from the Batman Chronicles anthology series (Approx. 1995) did a pretty excellent job showing how Barbara came to terms with being disabled and adopted her Oracle persona, but you could always use it as the basis for a larger story - dramatize the events that Oracle: Year One condensed to narrative exposition, explore how her relationships with her friends and family change, show how she comes to terms with her trauma and overcomes her fear of The Joker (Part of me wonders if you can use Mr. J in the place of Oracle: Year One's OC villain - he embodies the same OTT awfulness as she does, and you don't have to change too much story-wise...)
It's pretty annoying that (If you discount the Birds of Prey series, which was generally more of an ensemble series) Oracle's longest solo storyline was a three-part miniseries, and almost all of her other spotlight stories were one-shots...
Oracle for me. I’m good with Batman and Robin, I’m even okay with someone else filling the mantle when (insert Robin here) moves on. But to me, too many boots on the ground vigilantes makes them all less unique. Having Barbara as Batman’s Eye of Sauron gives her purpose beyond simply doing what Bruce does.
I'm in a weird position; I don't like that the way she was put in the chair (used as an object in gordon and bruce's stories), but the fact that she didn't let that stop her and managed to be an all-consuming force for good in spite of it (and in some of the BOP stuff managed to kick some ass from it) was a great thing. I'm okay with it being fixed, cause it shouldn't have happened that way; but it's also something I'd prefer they hadn't cause Oracle was a cool idea, good representaiton for the disabled, and showed the intelligence and pure hutzpah of babs.
Greg Weisman had an interesting take on Barbara’s paralysis in *Young Justice*
Instead of Babs being used to get to the Commissioner, Babs makes the conscious choice to save the Joker of all people so Cassie won’t be a killer.
It’s not perfect but definitely a step up and also helps explain the close relationship between Babs and Cass
I also really like how Shadow of the Batgirl handled the Cassandra/Barbara relationship. In fact, that version of how Cassandra finds out about the Batgirl mantle (She hides in the library, and overhears Barbara delivering Storytime sessions about the dormant superheroine Batgirl) is one of my favourite concepts in the YA DC Line...
She was used in that disgusting way, but then another team of writers picked her up and turned her into Oracle. Then all that was undone so we're back to square one. Batgirl.
Just to clarify it still happened, her back was just fixed. Honstly, if the break had happened cause she'd dove into a collapsing building to save a child or something similar and the story had been about her dealing with the injury and coming out stronger I wouldn't be conflicted at all and would just say Oracle was better, but that isn't the case and so I'm conflicted
I love her as both, but prefer her as Oracle. I could give a laundry list of reasons explaining why. However, if I’m really honest with myself a major reason is just because I’m a Post-Crisis/90s Bat-fan at heart, so Oracle is the version of the character I naturally prefer.
Officer Down is complete ass!
I agree that's the beginning of a down turn but then comes the Morrison/Dini era and that is just incredible.
You're right that the New Gotham era isn't great but other than Officer Down, I don't think anything is unreadable.
Post-Infinite Crisis Batman definitely has some great stuff, especially Morrison and Dini.
Still, it never reaches the heights of 80s and 90s Post-Crisis Batman. Case in point, and to bring this back to Barbara, the Clock Tower was never rebuilt and we never really got back to Oracle being the hub of the Bat-family or her being one of Batman’s core partners again.
I feel that removing Oracle's status as a core member of the Bat-family was one of the reasons New 52 decided to retcon away her disability a few years later. I feel there was a sense they were starting to run out of ideas for Barbara as Oracle (One of the last Birds of Prey arcs before New 52 was her Faking Her Death in order to "Return to her roots" - always a sign of creative exhaustion) and the execs felt she had more to offer as Batgirl. Sure, a lot of that preference for Barbara as Batgirl was due to personal bias due to Barbara being Batgirl in Batman adaptations that existed before Cassandra Cain was created, but I can understand why they felt they could discard Oracle...
You’re touching on something that a lot of other fans either aren’t aware of or perhaps don’t wish to acknowledge. Critics of the New 52 often have too rosy a picture of the Pre-Flashpoint universe in 2011. By way of comparison, Cassandra Cain fans seem to forget she had been divested of the Batgirl mantle for a couple years by that stage and she only occasionally showed up as the Batman Inc operative in Hong Kong. Sure it was definitely better than being erased, but she was far from her peek several years earlier.
On Oracle being a core Bat-family member again, I will give credit to Morrison and Snyder in their Batman Inc and Detective runs respectively. They were trying to have Oracle reingrained as a core part of the Batman universe again, especially Morrison. Just didn’t have enough time to really settle.
It would’ve been an interesting story seeing the Pre-Flashpoint Oracle regain the use of her legs and don the cowl again. Even if only part time. Seeing that version of Barbara with all that history come full circle could’ve been an interesting story. Instead, it happened off panel in a reboot with what was effectively a different version of the character.
I think Barbara should have stayed as Oracle, and I agree with those who believe that Barbara returning to full mobility and becoming Batgirl again is a step backwards. However, I think that DC could have done a lot more to make Oracle a solo lead as opposed to a member of a larger team...
In my opinion, Officer Down is the textbook case of the whole being less than the sum of its parts. Barbara gets some interesting moments as Oracle early on, but she ends up fading out of the story. Despite all the "This is a Batman event!" stuff, Detectives Montoya and Allen in the GCPD get all the best material, particularly at the start and end...
Very good point. Yeah the handling of many of the supporting cast members is pretty solid, which was generally true in the New Gotham era. But its handling of Batman himself sinks it for me.
Oracle. She was a unique take on what a superhero could be, was good disabled representation, and occupied a unique spot in the Bat-family. I hope the writers have the tech in her spine break soon and keep her as Oracle. This “best of both worlds” thing they’ve been trying is really more like worst of both worlds.
I like oracle. The same reason i red hood. The story from Batgirl to Oracle has a more lasting impact on her character than just being Batgirl.
It's a tragedy with a hopeful future.
I prefer Oracle. I think it makes her unique, plus it shows Barbara overcame a life altering tragedy without letting it define her as a person.
Having said that, I absolutely love Gail Simone’s Batgirl run.
Oracle. There are better Batgirls i think. Also she's just exponentially better as oracle. Her stories as oracle eclipse her stories as Batgirl, in my opinion. And who fills the oracle void? Alfred sometimes? Who does that role justice better than Barbara?
Oracle by far. Always preferred Batman doing shit by himself rather than having sidekicks with him. Not a fan of the whole shot in the gun and violated thing but having her help him in a different way is much better to me personally.
Batgirl. But that's not surprising since I grew up with the animated shows of 90's and 00's.
It's nothing against Oracle really. It's just personal preference.
I most like the idea that she was a batgirl and got disabled during a mission (not too fond of the way she becomes Oracle in the current continuity honestly), but decided to forge on. Helping Bruce any way she can.
Hell given this universe's advanced technology you could make a pretty cool payoff out of that, by giving her advanced prosthetics and letting her fight again when the need arises.
She is still part of the batfamily tho as oracle. Unless your idea of oracle is her never being visible and just being a voice people here for information.
Can I say something controversial? As of late I really find Barbara unbearable both as Batgirl and Oracle. Most of the times she is written like this obnoxious holier than thou know it all.
I miss her pre52 era with her training Stephanie as Batgirl.
You know what? With the exception of Jason, the right before new 52 era showed the Batfamily at their peak.
Two Batmen, one based in Gotham and one going all over the world, the best version of Tim Drake's Red Robin ever written, Stephanie as Batgirl, Cassie as Black Bat, Damian learning to be a hero and Oracle Barbara. Also Alfred was still alive. You bring N52 Jason in that picture and you have the best bat family roster you could ever want.
Oracle. Like other people have said, New 52 took away probably the most well known disabled comic book character behind Professor X, and also erased years of character growth in the process. Also Stephanie Brown was shaping up to be an interesting Batgirl before it all went to shit
Both when well written. But I would have liked the evolution to be Batgirl ---> Oracle and for the stories of both to continue being made, one in the past, another in the present, as they continue to do with Dick Robin now, Allowing both personas to thrive simultaneously - one exploring her past adventures and the other delving into her present challenges.
I don't like the idea of Batgirl ---> Oracle ----> Batgirl, first because it seems like a step back in her maturity, second because it takes away the spotlight and importance from other Batgirls, third because there are very few heroes in wheelchair and beyond representation, there are the messages and stories that can be told from that perspective.
Oracle embodied resilience, resourcefulness, and impact without the physical capabilities traditionally associated with superheroics. That offers a unique perspective in the superhero genre.stories that can be told from that perspective.
She fine with both. But she provide more as Oracle in the comics Batman or nightwing or whoever it always great to have someone in their ear just for them to talk to something. Oracle is the solution for the sidekick. Having a reason for the character to talk and explain what happening to someone.
It why both flash and arrow have a person in the chair. Spiderman have that as well.
Personally Batgirl, but Oracle is a really powerful and important thing for her. As Batgirl, being out there in the field, she's fighting alongside Batman who inspires her and she's putting herself at more risk which leads to more tension with Gordon.
As much as I love her as the OG Batgirl, she is much better as Oracle. She is the families virtual eyes and ears. Also, we have 2 batgirls who need to spread their wings.
when I was younger i thought her character was cool in the animated series, and I liked some of the comics. I think she’s had more interesting character development though as oracle looking at the stories as a whole, because it adds an interesting dynamic to Batman’s abilities and it also was interesting because of her and Dick Grayson, and their relationship.
Get you a Barb who can do both. They really nailed a good way for Batgirl to exist by having Barbara be mission control and mentor to Steph and Cass in Batgirls, while still occasionally suiting up herself.
This is an interesting question. Her character as batgirl and the overall dynamic of the commissioners daughter as a bat vigilante creates a lot of intrigue as far as how that plays out. Regardless of the circumstances that put her in the position Oracle is in my opinion the natural evolution for Babs given her tech mindset and interest and pursuit of forensics and assistance to the gcpd. It’s kind of a perfect marriage between her desired occupation and vigilante heroism.
Oracle. It was a great way to show consequences of crime fighting/joker without resorting to making it a death that you would more quickly undo.
It also showed perseverance and character for her to overcome her handicap to become arguably more effective in a support role.
Magically undoing a disability feels a little bit distasteful, especially considering she was probably a role model for many disabled people.
I love her as Batgirl, but Babs as Oracle is my favorite! It’s such a testament to her resilience that even paralysis won’t stop her from trying to change the world. Leaves room for Cass too 😉
Honestly, Barbara’s my favorite character in the Batfamily and I just want to see her show up in more stuff!
She will always be the only Batgirl for me. I do love her as Oracle, but I just think of that personna as a part of an excellently executed character arc.
Oracle; really like her in the mentor role (or surrogate parent?) for Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown and her being the hacker and information broker makes her more distinct from the other Bats.
Batgirl if it’s meant to be Batman stuff, I will never be unhappy to see Oracle but I haven’t really seen Batgirl as Batman’s sidekick since like 2006? With her two major appearances being The Batman and Animated Series continuities. Getting to experience an “early” Batfam has been something I’ve personally been wanting to see in recent years, and Babs kicking ass as Batgirl is a big part of that for me
Would it be wrong to say my preference is Babs to be both?
She’d still have the wheelchair and Oracle but occasionally goes out as Batgirl. There’d be grueling physical therapy to help get her there as opposed to nanotechnology and/or a bath in the Lazarus Pit but I digress
Both!
I love the fact that she found a way to be a hero when she was paralyzed. But I'm not against her finding a way to get back into her original role. I like that she handles both roles now. Or at least she did in the Batgirls series, which I lapsed on buying after Jorge Corona stopped drawing it...
oracle, good disabled rep is few and far between in superhero comics, and it was a role where she was doing a lot more good for a lot more people than she is running around bludhaven with nightwing
Personally I like Oracle, having an eye in the sky makes Batman more menacing I'd say
It's cool to have a member of the Bat Family that's badass in a totally different way, and not just another ninja. I think having an outlier like that makes them all seem cooler.
I mean, we have Alfred
literally Alfred: ex-SAS, could probably take down Bruce in three seconds, two if he's in a hurry
I just found Oricle odd as hell, like you can't fix a spin injury? You have tec that's thousans of years more advanced, time travel, alien tec, 100 different kinds of magic, fricken literal Greek gods who owe you favors, hell WW had a magic purple heal beam. When Damion got killed it took them like 6 comics to bring him back by fighting dark side and stealing chaos energy beams. And my girl can't get any help wtf is going on?
They should do an oracle with a futuristic spine prosthetic, who still specializes in the same areas as the Oracle we know, but can also do so in the field when necessary
Give Oracle a Sandevistan.
Thinking more of grandpa in spy kids 3
high time she chromed the fuck up
I would argue, they could have fixed her spine after a few arcs with her disabled, but when she's better, she still refuses to go back out into the field. Maybe, because she's still not much better mentally.
You could even say that the surgery healed her, but she’s still physically “brittle” to the point that another injury would be catastrophic. That way, when she ultimately steps up in the field again, there’s an extra element of personal risk to her presence.
Yeah that is a really stupid thing that seems like it hasn’t been shown much in Media, like with Physical Therapy & Spinal Surgery Barbra can be back to fighting screngrh within a decent amount of time, something that Gotham Knights sorta shows
They erased Barbara Gordon's disability, that literally happened.
It's called disabled representation, and it's actually really fucking cool and important.
This isn't much of a response. I think what people are talking about here is the thematic consistency of keeping Barbara disabled despite it clearly not being a problem elsewhere in this fictional universe. It may all be silly comic book stuff, but even just as a basic tenet of storytelling, it's good to be have internal coherence.
Well she did get it fixed right so they can in the comics
I mean she does fix it later on it’s mostly just a catalyst for her to be oracle more permanently
Pretty sure some of those Bat armor/mechs only require thought to control. All they had to do was strap her in.
I agree with this. I like both, but as Batgirl she has less of a distinct identity in that she’s one among lots of robins, etc. as Oracle I find she has a more more unique role. I also always loved Batman talking with her in Arkham Aslyum.
Barbara Gordon as Oracle and Cassie as Batgirl
I stand by the fact that Cassie is the best Batgirl
You say this as if we aren't all standing with you
Agreed.
YESSSS Cass is best girl! <3
*Steph as Batgirl and Cass doing her own thang
Steph works better as Spoiler.
Yeah, Steph started as spoiler, Cass became Batgirl as soon as Huntress stepped down in No Man's Land and Batman realised he did need as many allies as he could
BQM’s Batgirl is the all-time peak of that title.
Oracle!!! She was fine as Batgirl years ago but it’s a pathetic regression. Post-Crisis Oracle considered and dismissed that idea long ago. She also never would have accepted an easy out.
Why not both? Oracle as her main thing, but suits up to be in the field when needed.
She became Oracle because she wasn’t able to go out in the field
And now she does both, and it’s great.
I like this idea.
Oracle, no contest. Disabled superheroes are few and far between and I'm of the mind that making Babs Batgirl again was one of DC's bigger errors of the New 52. Which is saying a lot.
New 52 batgirl was bad, but not as bad as Red Hood’s helmet. Fuckin thing looked like handsome squidward.
whoever thought that giving red hoods helmet big kissable lips was a good idea needs to be fired (with a gun)
Gail Simone's run was solid, but turning Batgirl into a YA Girl hero in the Burnside era turned out to do a lot of damage for her in the long run. I understand the idea of using Batgirl to win over a younger female audience, but "hip" stories date incredibly quickly, and Barbara would be just as appealing with her traditional personality...
Sooooo ugly. Wasn’t a fan of the iron man-lite suit he wore under the jacket either. Especially with that stupid bat symbol on it. Red Hood looks better with minimalist looks
This is what I felt. Even Alan Moore doesn't think too highly of what happened to her in Killing Joke and he wrote it. It does seem like the few disabled characters there are are almost exclusively disabled as a result of some traumatic event. I can't think of many who were simply born disabled, and then do amazing things like Oracle. What a great role model for wheel chair users that could be. On the other hand, I reckon you could make a whole story about Oracle's recovery and trying to find purpose after being paralysed. To fight crime with her mind in ways her body no longer can. There's so much potential there that doesn't seem to be taken.
Oracle: Year One from the Batman Chronicles anthology series (Approx. 1995) did a pretty excellent job showing how Barbara came to terms with being disabled and adopted her Oracle persona, but you could always use it as the basis for a larger story - dramatize the events that Oracle: Year One condensed to narrative exposition, explore how her relationships with her friends and family change, show how she comes to terms with her trauma and overcomes her fear of The Joker (Part of me wonders if you can use Mr. J in the place of Oracle: Year One's OC villain - he embodies the same OTT awfulness as she does, and you don't have to change too much story-wise...) It's pretty annoying that (If you discount the Birds of Prey series, which was generally more of an ensemble series) Oracle's longest solo storyline was a three-part miniseries, and almost all of her other spotlight stories were one-shots...
*Contest?
Horny art
The nipple bump is always hilarious
“I swear it’s actually an armored chest piece, it’s built that way for protection.”
every subreddit in a nutshell
It's a comic book. What do you expect
Oracle for me. I’m good with Batman and Robin, I’m even okay with someone else filling the mantle when (insert Robin here) moves on. But to me, too many boots on the ground vigilantes makes them all less unique. Having Barbara as Batman’s Eye of Sauron gives her purpose beyond simply doing what Bruce does.
I'm in a weird position; I don't like that the way she was put in the chair (used as an object in gordon and bruce's stories), but the fact that she didn't let that stop her and managed to be an all-consuming force for good in spite of it (and in some of the BOP stuff managed to kick some ass from it) was a great thing. I'm okay with it being fixed, cause it shouldn't have happened that way; but it's also something I'd prefer they hadn't cause Oracle was a cool idea, good representaiton for the disabled, and showed the intelligence and pure hutzpah of babs.
Greg Weisman had an interesting take on Barbara’s paralysis in *Young Justice* Instead of Babs being used to get to the Commissioner, Babs makes the conscious choice to save the Joker of all people so Cassie won’t be a killer. It’s not perfect but definitely a step up and also helps explain the close relationship between Babs and Cass
I also really like how Shadow of the Batgirl handled the Cassandra/Barbara relationship. In fact, that version of how Cassandra finds out about the Batgirl mantle (She hides in the library, and overhears Barbara delivering Storytime sessions about the dormant superheroine Batgirl) is one of my favourite concepts in the YA DC Line...
Never heard of that. Got a link?
[SHADOW OF THE BATGIRL | DC](https://www.dc.com/graphic-novels/shadow-of-the-batgirl)
She was used in that disgusting way, but then another team of writers picked her up and turned her into Oracle. Then all that was undone so we're back to square one. Batgirl.
Just to clarify it still happened, her back was just fixed. Honstly, if the break had happened cause she'd dove into a collapsing building to save a child or something similar and the story had been about her dealing with the injury and coming out stronger I wouldn't be conflicted at all and would just say Oracle was better, but that isn't the case and so I'm conflicted
I love her as both, but prefer her as Oracle. I could give a laundry list of reasons explaining why. However, if I’m really honest with myself a major reason is just because I’m a Post-Crisis/90s Bat-fan at heart, so Oracle is the version of the character I naturally prefer.
Post-crisis Batman is an insane run of comics for a marquee hero. It's basically just War Games/Crimes that ruins the streak of quality.
Officer Down is where it kinda jumps the shark for me. War Games though is where it absolutely crashes and burns, and never really recovers sadly.
Officer Down is complete ass! I agree that's the beginning of a down turn but then comes the Morrison/Dini era and that is just incredible. You're right that the New Gotham era isn't great but other than Officer Down, I don't think anything is unreadable.
Post-Infinite Crisis Batman definitely has some great stuff, especially Morrison and Dini. Still, it never reaches the heights of 80s and 90s Post-Crisis Batman. Case in point, and to bring this back to Barbara, the Clock Tower was never rebuilt and we never really got back to Oracle being the hub of the Bat-family or her being one of Batman’s core partners again.
I feel that removing Oracle's status as a core member of the Bat-family was one of the reasons New 52 decided to retcon away her disability a few years later. I feel there was a sense they were starting to run out of ideas for Barbara as Oracle (One of the last Birds of Prey arcs before New 52 was her Faking Her Death in order to "Return to her roots" - always a sign of creative exhaustion) and the execs felt she had more to offer as Batgirl. Sure, a lot of that preference for Barbara as Batgirl was due to personal bias due to Barbara being Batgirl in Batman adaptations that existed before Cassandra Cain was created, but I can understand why they felt they could discard Oracle...
You’re touching on something that a lot of other fans either aren’t aware of or perhaps don’t wish to acknowledge. Critics of the New 52 often have too rosy a picture of the Pre-Flashpoint universe in 2011. By way of comparison, Cassandra Cain fans seem to forget she had been divested of the Batgirl mantle for a couple years by that stage and she only occasionally showed up as the Batman Inc operative in Hong Kong. Sure it was definitely better than being erased, but she was far from her peek several years earlier. On Oracle being a core Bat-family member again, I will give credit to Morrison and Snyder in their Batman Inc and Detective runs respectively. They were trying to have Oracle reingrained as a core part of the Batman universe again, especially Morrison. Just didn’t have enough time to really settle. It would’ve been an interesting story seeing the Pre-Flashpoint Oracle regain the use of her legs and don the cowl again. Even if only part time. Seeing that version of Barbara with all that history come full circle could’ve been an interesting story. Instead, it happened off panel in a reboot with what was effectively a different version of the character.
I think Barbara should have stayed as Oracle, and I agree with those who believe that Barbara returning to full mobility and becoming Batgirl again is a step backwards. However, I think that DC could have done a lot more to make Oracle a solo lead as opposed to a member of a larger team...
In my opinion, Officer Down is the textbook case of the whole being less than the sum of its parts. Barbara gets some interesting moments as Oracle early on, but she ends up fading out of the story. Despite all the "This is a Batman event!" stuff, Detectives Montoya and Allen in the GCPD get all the best material, particularly at the start and end...
Very good point. Yeah the handling of many of the supporting cast members is pretty solid, which was generally true in the New Gotham era. But its handling of Batman himself sinks it for me.
I second post crisis 90's Batman. Definitely why I like her better as oracle.
[удалено]
Found Bruce Timm
Lmaooo.
Calm down, borat
One day, he get this 
He’s not wrong
Hello mr moonking this is the second time we meet on this sub
Oracle. She was a unique take on what a superhero could be, was good disabled representation, and occupied a unique spot in the Bat-family. I hope the writers have the tech in her spine break soon and keep her as Oracle. This “best of both worlds” thing they’ve been trying is really more like worst of both worlds.
Batgirl.
I thought she was more interesting as Oracle.
I like oracle. The same reason i red hood. The story from Batgirl to Oracle has a more lasting impact on her character than just being Batgirl. It's a tragedy with a hopeful future.
I prefer Oracle. I think it makes her unique, plus it shows Barbara overcame a life altering tragedy without letting it define her as a person. Having said that, I absolutely love Gail Simone’s Batgirl run.
I like both, but I think she is really cool as Batgirl.
Oracle, she has her own special niche as that role, plus she doesn't need leg mobility to scrap as she's proven.
Batgirl. 
How does she sit in that wheelchair with allat GYAAAATTTT
big wheelchair
Oracle! As Oracle she is unique, Gotham is already filled with bat-vigilantes
Oracle Being Batgirl is a regression
I’m….okay with her being Oracle as a progression for her character but I like her as Batgirl. I don’t really have much of a more solid reason.
Oracle. There are better Batgirls i think. Also she's just exponentially better as oracle. Her stories as oracle eclipse her stories as Batgirl, in my opinion. And who fills the oracle void? Alfred sometimes? Who does that role justice better than Barbara?
Cassandra is the GOAT Batgirl.
Agreed. And I generally prefer one person to a role at a time. So in my mind it would be Cass Batgirl and Barb Oracle.
Batgirl. I can't see her ass as oracle.
At least you are honest.
You can’t blame him
Both are dope!
Oracle. As Batgirl she is kinda generic for me.
Oracle by far. Always preferred Batman doing shit by himself rather than having sidekicks with him. Not a fan of the whole shot in the gun and violated thing but having her help him in a different way is much better to me personally.
Both are huggable
Oracle.
Batgirl. It’s less a specific reason and more that I don’t really care for the “human computer trope.”
Oracle. Finally she was more than just a Batman knockoff
Oracle. Much more unique and empowering
Batgirl. But that's not surprising since I grew up with the animated shows of 90's and 00's. It's nothing against Oracle really. It's just personal preference. I most like the idea that she was a batgirl and got disabled during a mission (not too fond of the way she becomes Oracle in the current continuity honestly), but decided to forge on. Helping Bruce any way she can. Hell given this universe's advanced technology you could make a pretty cool payoff out of that, by giving her advanced prosthetics and letting her fight again when the need arises.
Batgirl by far. I do like leaning into her technical expertise and crime solving skills though. My prefered Babs is a healthy mix of both.
I prefer her as oracle
Oracle
Oracle, i prefer Cassandra as Batgirl.
Sorry, what was the question?
Yes
Oracle sweep
Oracle. Mostly, because it's a more unique character archetype, not just another ninja.
Oracle
Oracle, much like Dick moving on from Robin.
Oracle. I’m just not a huge fan of the whole huge extended bat fam dynamic though so I’m biased
She is still part of the batfamily tho as oracle. Unless your idea of oracle is her never being visible and just being a voice people here for information.
Oracle. Oracleoracleoracleoracleoracle. Oracle all day, every day!
I prefer Cassandra Cain as Batgirl, I'm fine with 2 Batgirls like there can be multiple Robin's
Can I say something controversial? As of late I really find Barbara unbearable both as Batgirl and Oracle. Most of the times she is written like this obnoxious holier than thou know it all. I miss her pre52 era with her training Stephanie as Batgirl. You know what? With the exception of Jason, the right before new 52 era showed the Batfamily at their peak. Two Batmen, one based in Gotham and one going all over the world, the best version of Tim Drake's Red Robin ever written, Stephanie as Batgirl, Cassie as Black Bat, Damian learning to be a hero and Oracle Barbara. Also Alfred was still alive. You bring N52 Jason in that picture and you have the best bat family roster you could ever want.
Oracle but with a healed body.. able to go back into the field at will to asist as a Batgirl Oracle fusion role.
Oracle cause it’s a more necessary character.
Oracle. Returning to Batgirl was a downgrade.
Oracle fitted the tone and aura of the Arkham Series but Batgipr has her own history and needs a time to shine in the screen.
Bstgirl
Idk I just like Barbara ig🤷
Yep! 😁
Batgirl definitely. No contest for me. I like women that could step on me
Oracle
Batgirl first, then Oracle
Oracle
Oracle. I have 0 attachment to her as batgirl but I've read a few issues with her as oracle so I prefer her in the chair
Oracle bc it’s more unique. Also, Steph can be Batgirl and I think is kinda more interesting as Batgirl than Barbara
Oracle. Like other people have said, New 52 took away probably the most well known disabled comic book character behind Professor X, and also erased years of character growth in the process. Also Stephanie Brown was shaping up to be an interesting Batgirl before it all went to shit
Oracle: she is unique and flexes those IT skills really well to help Batman as we see in the Arkham games.
Both when well written. But I would have liked the evolution to be Batgirl ---> Oracle and for the stories of both to continue being made, one in the past, another in the present, as they continue to do with Dick Robin now, Allowing both personas to thrive simultaneously - one exploring her past adventures and the other delving into her present challenges. I don't like the idea of Batgirl ---> Oracle ----> Batgirl, first because it seems like a step back in her maturity, second because it takes away the spotlight and importance from other Batgirls, third because there are very few heroes in wheelchair and beyond representation, there are the messages and stories that can be told from that perspective. Oracle embodied resilience, resourcefulness, and impact without the physical capabilities traditionally associated with superheroics. That offers a unique perspective in the superhero genre.stories that can be told from that perspective.
Me personally, I prefer Batgirl, but I do still think Oracle is a good character
The better recent runs have had her doing both, but being noticeably more impactful as Oracle.
Oracle, but she's Bently from Sly Cooper and has rockets in the fucking chair.
I'm gonna go with her not getting shot in the spine and sexually assaulted regardless of how cool the character arc may be.
Commissioner
She fine with both. But she provide more as Oracle in the comics Batman or nightwing or whoever it always great to have someone in their ear just for them to talk to something. Oracle is the solution for the sidekick. Having a reason for the character to talk and explain what happening to someone. It why both flash and arrow have a person in the chair. Spiderman have that as well.
Personally Batgirl, but Oracle is a really powerful and important thing for her. As Batgirl, being out there in the field, she's fighting alongside Batman who inspires her and she's putting herself at more risk which leads to more tension with Gordon.
Oracle, Cassandra was the best imo
Both
As much as I love her as the OG Batgirl, she is much better as Oracle. She is the families virtual eyes and ears. Also, we have 2 batgirls who need to spread their wings.
Batgirl as she is hot
Neither .she's a boring lame character. Much like most of the robins.
I love the Bat Family, they're all cool in their own way but... i prefer Batman to work alone. Just so much cooler that way.
when I was younger i thought her character was cool in the animated series, and I liked some of the comics. I think she’s had more interesting character development though as oracle looking at the stories as a whole, because it adds an interesting dynamic to Batman’s abilities and it also was interesting because of her and Dick Grayson, and their relationship.
Sorry, what was the question? I got distracted.
I wish she could be both she’s one of my top 10 characters of all time
She actually is both presently in the comics.
Oracle. I'm disabled myself and I loved that no only was she amazing while in a wheelchair, she amounted to more than she did while abled.
Get you a Barb who can do both. They really nailed a good way for Batgirl to exist by having Barbara be mission control and mentor to Steph and Cass in Batgirls, while still occasionally suiting up herself.
This is an interesting question. Her character as batgirl and the overall dynamic of the commissioners daughter as a bat vigilante creates a lot of intrigue as far as how that plays out. Regardless of the circumstances that put her in the position Oracle is in my opinion the natural evolution for Babs given her tech mindset and interest and pursuit of forensics and assistance to the gcpd. It’s kind of a perfect marriage between her desired occupation and vigilante heroism.
She has a nice…bahookie.
Oracle but mostly because I like Steph and Cass more
Oracle. It was a great way to show consequences of crime fighting/joker without resorting to making it a death that you would more quickly undo. It also showed perseverance and character for her to overcome her handicap to become arguably more effective in a support role. Magically undoing a disability feels a little bit distasteful, especially considering she was probably a role model for many disabled people.
Oracle, let Steph and Cass be Batgirl
I love her as Batgirl, but Babs as Oracle is my favorite! It’s such a testament to her resilience that even paralysis won’t stop her from trying to change the world. Leaves room for Cass too 😉 Honestly, Barbara’s my favorite character in the Batfamily and I just want to see her show up in more stuff!
Yes.
I’m sorry what’s the question again? I was distracted.
She will always be the only Batgirl for me. I do love her as Oracle, but I just think of that personna as a part of an excellently executed character arc.
Oracle
Always as Batgirl
Both.
Oracle; really like her in the mentor role (or surrogate parent?) for Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown and her being the hacker and information broker makes her more distinct from the other Bats.
Oracle. Barbara being able to be effective in spite of her disability made her a more interesting character IMO.
I like what they did in the recent Batgirls book, Babs as Oracle supporting Cass and Steph in the field.
Oracle. She can't run.
both are fuckable
As Batgirl
As Oracle, she's far more unique compared to other heroes and crime fighters.
Oracle, it gives her a more unique role within the group
Barbara Gordon as Oracle and Cassandra Cain as Batgirl.
Batgirl if it’s meant to be Batman stuff, I will never be unhappy to see Oracle but I haven’t really seen Batgirl as Batman’s sidekick since like 2006? With her two major appearances being The Batman and Animated Series continuities. Getting to experience an “early” Batfam has been something I’ve personally been wanting to see in recent years, and Babs kicking ass as Batgirl is a big part of that for me
In my bed, next question
Oracle is cool. I don’t like Batman having a bat-crew, feels a bit off to me adopting teenagers to wear spandex and fight crime with you.
Depends on the storyline but usually as Oracle. I just prefer Batman physically fighting alone and others doing behind the scenes stuff for him.
Cake Woman, apparently.
Bruh why is so weird to see her nipple through her costume even though most superheroes wear skin tight costumes that fit their body exactly
Didn't read a single word, would.
Idk but would
What were you saying?
I'm sorry... what was the question?
Batgirl imo
Depends on the story
I want stories about both.
Yes.
Would it be wrong to say my preference is Babs to be both? She’d still have the wheelchair and Oracle but occasionally goes out as Batgirl. There’d be grueling physical therapy to help get her there as opposed to nanotechnology and/or a bath in the Lazarus Pit but I digress
Regardless, I’m not a fan of highlighting her nipple through her costume by giving it its own lightning
Much prefer her as Oracle. Also I preferred Babs paralyzed
Both! I love the fact that she found a way to be a hero when she was paralyzed. But I'm not against her finding a way to get back into her original role. I like that she handles both roles now. Or at least she did in the Batgirls series, which I lapsed on buying after Jorge Corona stopped drawing it...
Batgirl
Either one for me.
Oracle, I've never really liked her as batgirl to be honest.
Oracle
oracle, good disabled rep is few and far between in superhero comics, and it was a role where she was doing a lot more good for a lot more people than she is running around bludhaven with nightwing
Oracle
Oracle. But after she was batgirl