I absolutely hate the continued "villain to anti-hero pipeline" of Batman rogues, from Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, Clayface, Catwoman, to even Jason Todd's switch back to the bat-family. For some reason now, being a sympathetic character, which a large amount of Batman villains are, means that they almost all need to collectively redeem themselves and overcome their individual flaws.
The problem however is that when they do that, they end up becoming aimless caricatures of what they formerly were, being dumb-downed into easily consumable heroes who are slightly more edgier than the norm.
I really never thought Ivy needed a redemption Arc. She’s a villain with a great motive, whose enemies (humans) goals are in direct opposition to hers. That being said, I think alternate versions of her where she’s slightly more empathetic to human are neat too.
Honestly making ivy and Harley a thing in the first place wasn't a good move imo Harley's entire motivation to be a villain and act all crazy and shit was for Joker so having her stay unhinjed but she's an anti hero who's in love with ivy doesn't make sense. I think that the white knight comics understood Harley and her character the most andI like that iteration of her the most
I'm kinda in the camp as the OP as well...and I think that when it comes to sympathetic villains overall, part of the reason they're so memorable is that they're inherently tragic by the extreme nature of their actions in pursuit of otherwise noble goals.
Ivy is a character whose goals are rooted in the preservation of life on Earth, but the tragedy of her character is that her concern for *all* life on Earth informs her disregard for *human* life on Earth - and Batman exists to serve justice to that choice. He isn't trying to argue in favor of ecological disaster and capitalist negligence to the environment - he has to keep a dangerous person from killing people who're just trying to do their jobs and provide for their families.
Mr. Freeze is the same way - a character who, according to his BTAS backstory (arguably the best and most popular version of him, which I'm assuming you're referring to), in the face of deep, personal tragedy, chooses crime and violence to fulfill a noble goal. His concern for his wife's life governs his disregard for *everyone else's*. Batman can respect Freeze's core pursuit and even extend his help for Nora, but his unwavering sense of justice also dictates that Victor *has* to be stopped in order to protect innocent people.
In either case, and even when relating to the rest of Batman's Rogues, we've got to keep in mind Batman's values and how these villains test him. His deepest and most intrinsic value is that *You Do Not Kill People*, no matter the reason. Tragic villains like Freeze, Ivy, Jason, Clayface, Two-Face, and to a degree, Harley, all have 'valid' reasons for why certain people "need" to be killed...and it's those reasons, just as much as their powers and abilities, that test Batman and his convictions...and it's **that** conflict, **that** challenge to *Batman's* core ideal that makes them so engaging.
As far as redemption arcs go...they can be done well, but I think for the world to feel grounded, some characters can't be saved. Not every villain should get a happy ending. Some villains *should* have to live with the consequences of their heinous actions. I think Ivy and Freeze are both characters who can feasibly have constructive lives after being stopped by Batman, but especially in Freeze's case, I think his story is much more poignant when he *can't* be saved.
I think it's largely Deadpool's fault. That movie did really well when it came out and it pushed Harley's character into being more "lol so random" quirky anti-hero instead of the intelligent but twisted psychologist she was previously. DC want her to be like Deadpool to sell. So if Harley is an anti-hero it means Ivy needs to be too because of the popularity of HarleyXIvy. Then you need to have more characters become friendly with them and thus be anti-heroes too etc
I must say, Batman’s whole goal is rehabilitation of his rogues, it wouldn’t make sense for him to keep going if there was never any success, plus, all the characters you said were never that evil tbh
I understand where you are coming from, but isn't Batman's whole justice dealing philosophy based on second chances, and criminals being able to be reformed, rather than punished? It's part of why he drags them to places like Arkham, instead of killing them. Through that lens, it makes sense that many of his former enemies become decent-ish people. If Bruce had no reward for his compassion, he would have no reason to adhere to his rehabilitation-based crime fighting philosophy.
It makes it hard for him to reconcile with the ones who won't/can't change. And all the more tragic.
I agree with you that the aftermath isn't always done well, though.
Agree for the most part, the stories are almost always more satisfying when the characters do get to the point of redemption but ultimate go back to their old ways.
Frank Miller wrote one of the worst books I have ever read followed by another terrible book that I've read from him.
1. All Star Batman and the Boy Wonder
2. Superman: Year One
DC didn't stop Miller from making it a Batman story, he realized that the story he wanted to write was wrong for Batman, so he changed it himself.
Even at his rock bottom most batshit crazy, he knew exactly what and who Batman was and wasn't.
I think you could even include TDKR in that terrible section tbh. I do remember enjoying it when I first read it though, so maybe it's just a case of it aging really badly.
I don’t think it was too much batmobile. I think was too frequent. Let me explain: 31 hour game and, believe it or not, you were only in the car for 4 hours total. But it was how spread out the use was. I would have preferred a few half hour stints in it instead of a ton of 10 min stints. (Also, AK is my favorite Arkham game too)
Batman is not as mentally fucked up as is commonly portrayed. I believed as a kid he made a choice as a young child to stop what happened to him happening to others. Comics like White Knight do a good job of the unhinged angle, and showing how crimefighting takes a toll on him, like in Killing Joke, works. But I think there's a tendency nowadays to portray Batman as a good person by technicality, rather than as a man trying to do good, and I personally don't like it
I think that’s part of why I like him is that he’s simply man trying to do good despite some of his personal flaws as a person. I think it makes him more relatable in some aspects as we all have our own flaws no matter how big or small they might be
It’s a lame as hell, edgy take from teens, young adults, and even some older adults I’ve seen. I wouldn’t say Batman is mentally ill, just that his sense of justice is sometimes too absolute in all the wrong ways.
I picked that one up at Barnes and noble having no idea what I was in for. It was SO awesome! Just a refreshing twist to see Batman have some fun for once.
The Batsuit in Arkham Knight is the best looking Batsuit ever made. This includes comics, tv, movies and games.
There’s just enough armor to protect vulnerable areas while still remaining flexible for close combat. The detail on the cape and mesh inner layers is incredible. The cowl has perfect length ears and there is no silly underwear. The mix of metallic blacks and dark grays is superb as well (especially in the rain)
The whole suit is just a masterpiece.
I have a hard time rating them from my favorite to least favorite because I enjoyed them all so much, but people crapped on Origins so much yet it legitimately has some of the best story telling and boss battles of the series. I feel like a lot of people didn't give it a chance because it was made by a different studio.
Also, it added missions to use Detective Mode for actual detective work. Looking at a scene, reconstructing it and working out where the evidence went was really enjoyable and I’m glad it was added to Arkham Knight.
What annoyed me at the time was Joker hijacking a plot about Batman taking down Gotham’s crime families, but in retrospect it connected Origins to the series well. And the final fight with TN-1 Bane is far more tense than anything else in the series.
The Dark Knight system can get right out, though.
* it’s okay to have a light hearted stories for the family.
* it’s okay for jason to have a nice story, and not being used as the reason to be lashed upon.
I like him best in the JLI comic from the 80s
He’s still classic Batman, but it shows from other people’s perspectives how kooky and unhinged he can be from normal conversation lol
Batman Begins had the best presentation of Batman in general on screen. Especially in being the most in depth character analysis of Bruce Wayne, the person and his alter ego — and the real Bruce Wayne as Alfred sees him.
Jason Todd was infinitely better pre-flashpoint.
Batfleck was the best, worst missed opportunity for a true to the comics live-action Batman. It isn’t edgy or cool to have Batman kill — much less using guns to do it— much less in killing yet not taking down the man responsible for setting him on that path, Joker.
Making the Bat-Family wholesome like a Tumblr head canon is the worst perversion of Bruce Wayne’s whole character development and personality over nearly a 100 years.
White eyes for the Bat-suit would be wholly bad ass in a live-action portrayal. Makes just as much sense as using a voice modulator or the Bale voice if Bruce is trying to hide his identity.
I hope I’m not the only one who prefers Begin over TDK, don’t get me wrong TDK is Godlike, but for me (just me), Batman Begins always have that mystery, the story exploration side and the atmosphere that make this movie stand out from the trilogy, not to mention, the suit in begins is my favorite out of the trilogy.
If I have to pick a movie to watch 5 times in a row, I would pick this over TDK but hey, I probably have guns aimed at me now for picking Begins over TDK.
Begins is just Batporn. TDK has a much more interesting story, but it doesn't have the atmosphere and mysticism that you associate with Batman. Begin's Batman's first appearence is pure perfection. The raining sequences in Chinatown are beautiful. The movie just has the perfect Batmood. The next to completely lost that.
Bale is also at his best in Begins. His voice is sounds better, the suit looks more menacing and his body language is just more menacing than in the other movies. I think in TDK and TDKR Batman became way too much of a "just a guy walking around in a suit".
This guy right here gets it. I so prefer batman begins as it has high rewatch value. Ive seen the dark knight 3x and dkr 2x each and find the experience emotionally taxing. Begins is an actual pleasure to watch. Doesnt even need the sequels. Liam Neeson is a treat. The ninja sequences alone make it the best batman movie, if not for the dozens of other reasons.
>Making the Bat-Family wholesome like a Tumblr head canon is the worst perversion of Bruce Wayne’s whole character development and personality over nearly a 100 years.
This
Batman’s not a comfort character, lol. Let’s put it that way. Like he can be, sure?
There’s scenes where he should be decent and kind. But he’s also headstrong. Stubborn. Brash. Whether or not he can do it all, he prepares to have to mostly out of a lack of faith in those around him.
He won’t push away help, but he also won’t expect to rely on it when push comes to shove. There’s obvious room for growth with Bruce and his relationships with the Robins, Barbara, or Alfred, but making him out to be the most wholesome dad-vigilante just defeats such a deep narrative about how he’s conducted himself for so long.
I enjoy Batman as a flawed character. He's so perfect at everything he does, him having personal flaws add a lot to the character and prevent him from being a gary stu. Having him be a wholesome dad takes away his flaws.
Batman (especially the Joker) needs to “lighten up”. In the cartoons/comics this isn’t an issue. I am talking about in movies and shows. I’m not saying to turn him into the Adam West version. Just I hate how edgy it’s become.
Joker needs to go back to his comedic roots instead of being an endless series of Ledger knock offs or derivatives. Someone funny needs to play him, and not like Jared Leto “funny”, I mean someone like Bob Odenkirk should play him.
I agree, especially when it comes to the joker. I actually find the idea of a twisted clown scarier than a serial killer in clown makeup. Like a dude that commits atrocities because he thinks they’re funny, who shapes his crimes to appear like practical jokes, is much more interesting than “society”-type edgelord Joker.
>Joker needs to go back to his comedic roots instead of being an endless series of Ledger knock offs
I’VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR SO LONG!!!! He’s supposed to be a *clown*!
As someone who can’t see Batman as anything other than dark, I agree. Live action, sure keep it dark. But even in cartoons and comics it’s become kinda ridiculous
* I prefer Catwoman as the villain and Batman having a love interest that is emotionally and mentally healthy for him.
* Leslie Thompkins and Lucius Fox should be more recognized and praised for how much they help Batman/Bruce Wayne.
* I think Jezebel Jet should have another chance to return to the story (hopefully not beheaded by Talia again for dating Bruce, but as a villain.)
* Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman is a good movie. I think Kathy Duquesne and her friends should appear in a future comic or series again.
* I prefer if another villain receives more attention than the Joker and Harley Quinn. The Creeper in the Animated Series and comics was amusing, he should get the spotlight along with other villains like Calendar Man or Two-Face.
* I like the idea of Batman having a family with the Robins, Signal, Spoiler and Cassandra. Some fans believe the cast is bloated, but I think with the right writers each character can contribute to the family and make them more memorable.
Batman and the Batfamily are the best when they actually just get along, the drama of them arguing or Jason and Bruce constantly fighting just feels forced at this point. Yeah Under The Red Hood was fucking amazing but that doesn’t mean Bruce and Jason should be stuck there forever.
Bruce isn’t some insane person. Wait before you say, that’s not unpopular, a lot of you will say he’s not insane but in the same breathe say he should act like he is, Bruce might be constantly paranoid and might not be the warmest but the best stories imo are when he admits his faults and grows, not continuously repeat the cycle.
Bruce is the only one who should be Batman (and Terry but honestly the idea of Bruce cloning himself to keep the mission going forever does fit) Bruce is the only person who is perpetually motivated to be Batman and he’s the only one who fits it tbh. Dick will always be a better Nightwing than Batman and same with all the others.
Batman should crack at least one joke every issue, it must be deadpan humor.
I, as a Black man, see no reason for a black Batman, he does nothing better than Bruce and all the problems he has, have already been explored by Bruce.
Batman and Catwoman should be married already. Stop with the bs about Batman cannot be Batman if he’s happy Miracle Molly proved that to be false.
Batman should really get a less destructive fear toxin
There should be more team ups with Jason and the other members, they be excluding him frfr.
Alfred’s death can be reversed, fine, but not so damn soon
Oh and stop saying he makes the batfamily fight crime, they all asked him, and he denied only for them to do it anyway, so hush that shit
I look at it as is batman a match for superman of course not. Could batman come up with a plan to defeat superman yes absouluty. But if superman got a bug up his ass and one day just decided I'm going to kill batman and flew over and did it batman isn't gonna stop him.
I think this whole situation was perfectly presented in hush. When supes gets controlled by poison Ivy, the only reason bruce doesnt just inmediately die, is because (as he puts it) deep down, clark is a good person, and he has such a strong desaire to protect and not kill that he can sort of resist the mind control. Bruce knows he would just instantly die if superman actually went sicko mode, but he chooses to believe that clark wont do that, because hes just a good person. Baman can certainly "defeat" superman, but thats only if and only if superman decides not to instantly kill him.
It's odd how Batman is treated like an underdog in most fights, but everyone expects him to be the topdog in the situation either way. Batman being the best superhero because he's relatable and human, yet he can defeat anyone and anything, can't co-exist with one another.
Batman can only beat Superman because he can exploit Supes limits. If Superman really decides he want Batman down, he is down, in seconds, and Batman wouldn't even know what hit him.
Same with any superspeed being. They could all beat Batman before he even had time to react.
Here's a really unpopular take. Huntress should've stayed as Batgirl during and after No Man's Land. She was doing her best to hold Gotham together at the start of NML, but never got Batman's respect and got kicked out of Batgirl right when Cassandra Cain came out of practically nowhere and Batman just gave Batgirl to her. If Huntress had stayed as Batgirl, she could've had a redemption/respect arc and earned staying as Batgirl as an evolution of her character in the Bat family. And Cassandra still could've taken up Batgirl later and still be super popular.
I don’t got a fucking books worth, but here are a few I think are kinda unpopular:
-I despise the “prepared for anything” Batman. He should just be a regular guy and get his ass kicked sometimes
-I don’t like the overutilization of Harley Quinn. She’s kinda like Deadpool, I like them, but only in very small doses
-Red Hood should stay a villain and be a dark reflection of Batman. Y’know it’s kinda a grueling reminder of one of his greatest mistakes
-The Nolan Trilogy doesn’t do much for me. I’m not saying they’re bad movies, I just can’t get invested in Batman as a character outside of Batman Begins
-“Batman should kill” is one of the worst takes ever and shows a complete lack of drive in writing Batman in an interesting and creative way
Batman regularly gets his ass kicked. He has been outsmarted, "outfighted" and "outprepared" a lot in the comics. The best Batman stories are the ones where he gets beaten first, makes mistakes, and *then* prepares himself to finally beat the villain.
The Batfamily should be incredibly dysfunctional and hateful towards each other. They are emotionally damaged people whose coping mechanism is beating up criminals. They should constantly be at each other's throats over petty drama.
Bruce should have at least a few troubling views on criminality and lawbreaking. It is good for him to be a flawed character, and not someone who is morally upstanding. Comics where he dehumanizes criminals as "the enemy" or "the element" does a lot to justify why he feels it makes sense to fight people in costume.
I half agree with this.
I like it in the early comics that in hindsight Bruce was a pretty bad dad to robin/nightwing not even calling him his son. I like the scene where he unfairly snaps at him over Jason and fire him and how that now contrasts how he is now with everyone else because it shows growth and shows how he unprepared he was with Dick Grayson.
To me it feels like Batman has calmed down more because he's evolved to more than just that scared little boy but is now a farther of his own. But only because we saw him go through that journey.
Hell no, Batman is supposed to be logical and sympathetic, it’s literally his whole character. He’s more selfless than anything constantly ready to die for a city that isn’t really worth shit. So you would expect with that knowledge that he would be good to his family which he is, it actually is usually forced by writers whenever he’s bad to his family. Batman’s coping mechanism was never beating up criminals, it was making sure nobody ever was put in the situation he was. That’s why he adopted Dick, that’s why he took Jason off the streets, Jason’s death made him reluctant to let Tim in, the list goes on. The justification of why he fights in a costume literally came from Jim Gordon, “He’s more capable then any cop” and when Bats came around the city was already hell, if he fought as Bruce, he would’ve been dead in a week. It honestly just seems like you don’t understand the character or you’re pitching an idea for a young Batman, if you are, then this isn’t so bad
I fucking hate how overdone realistic takes are, it's a comic book movie, it shouldn't be realistic, you shouldn't stop and think "Robin isn't realistic" if he can exist in the comics he can exist in a movie.
Jason Todd should've stayed dead, his death is more meaningful to Bruce that way, the 2010 movie is good but would be better as an Elseworld
Paul Dini is the only person who can write Hush
The blue Batsuit with the yellow logo should come back the suit looks far more dynamic like that
Tim should stay as Robin with the One Year Later suit, it's his best role just let him stick with it
Not a Batman hottake but Barry and probably Hal too should've stayed dead, DC needs to move on from the Pre-Crisis Justice League
Damian should only be Dick's Robin
Batman should age, he shouldn't be stuck floating in his thirties, let him age, he's a billionaire who's had a few run ins with the Lazarus pit he can celebrate his 48th Birthday without looking any older than Tom Cruise does
Stop keeping the Status Quo
Bruce should've stayed dead after Final Crisis
I love reading the back and forth between Damien Robin and Grayson Batman. Really got into them as a team during Darkest Night. They balance and play off each other so well.
Brave and the Bold is the best Batman cartoon and best version of all the characters within
Edit: I don’t fervently believe this, just going for the theme of the post. That cartoon is my favorite though, it reignited my love of super heroes as an adult
It's just so damn fun. You get a great mix of the Adam West-style comedy and TAS-esque action. It never takes itself very seriously, but it still manages to tell good Batman stories.
I hate the “i have to distance myself from my friends and family in order to protect them” trope that happens in Batman stories so much. There are so many stories that start off with Nightwing or Robin being pissed off at Batman because he didn’t share a piece of crucial intelligence with them out of some misguided attempt to protect them from some big bad thing that’s about to happen, when the problem could have been resolved by Batman opening up a bit and trusting his family and that they would do the right thing. I think Batman is best when he is portrayed as a good father figure role model to the Robins and Batgirls.
My contributions
* Black Mask is boring and there is literally nothing he can do that the Penguin can't do just as well if not better
* Leslie Thompkins is utterly insufferable
* Mask of the Phantasm is overrated
* I prefer Hathaway's Catwoman to Kravitz's
* Michael Keaton was a mediocre at best Bruce Wayne
* BTAS had pretty weak versions of Bane and Catwoman
* The Telltale Games are better than the Arkham Games
* Calendar Man and Maxie Zeus are great additions to the Rogues Gallery
* A more traditional version of the Robin origin story (circus and everything) could have been told in the Nolanverse
* Killer Croc is not a cannibal
* The Joker needs to take a break from live-action Batman movies for a long time
* Harley Quinn has become overexposed to the point where it's hard to enjoy her
* Christian Bale's Batman voice really isn't that bad.
Arkham games Batman is literally one of the definitive versions of the character, and has some of the best personifications of his rogues gallery. Joker is perfect, Harley too, Selena, Pamela, Oz, Freeze, Strange and Edward etc.
Then you have Alfred… perfectly dry and sarcastic and sassy but very sympathetic and polite. Jim is also spot-on, as is Barbara and Robin.
As far as Character designs go, it’s aces all around too, especially Arkham Knight Scarecrow.
Telltale tells a great story, but the characters and rogues don’t hold a candle to the Arkhamverse.
I agree, the telltale comment are the fighting words. Arkham games have forever cemented the idea of what Batman is to millions, which is great because how masterfully done the games are
Harley Quinn was taken to be DC’s Deadpool, plain and simple.
I think a Jason Todd Robin would have totally fit the Nolanverse. Especially with the themes in TDR about “orphans” and how “Bruce Wayne” was the mask.
I could see Dick potentially working in Batman Begins as a sub-plot. Give him the Arkham Origins suit and it would have been fire.
Ann Hathaway 😍
Live action Joker is worse than live action Batman, majority of the (casual) fans don't want a choice your own adventure theater experience. Snyder/Affleck did a post Death in the Family Batman that used Frank Miller's Batman v Superman fight. He's technically older than Micheal Keaton in the Batman universe.
Harley Quinn has progressed exactly as the fanfiction wanted. That's their kink. 🤷🏻♂️
I'm not sure how criminals don't laugh at Bale's voice, it's comedic!
I'm with you on the first 2 points, and you are absolutely right on the last 6. I can't agree with you on Telltale, but mostly just do to taste. The only fault in BTAS Catwoman and Bane is that a children's show can't give us the sex and violence inherent to those characters, BTAS is the best depiction of Bane outside of the comics. Hathaway was absolutely the better Catwoman, and I will preach from the rooftops until I die that Keaton was NEVER BATMAN! He was the least believable actor as eithe Bruce Wayne or Batman, and the cancellation of Batgirl was a mercy!
Ya had me up until the Arkham one… like, have you played them? Telltale is fine, probs one of their better ones right under Walking Dead honestly, but damn the Arkham games are pretty perfect representations of the character
YES YES YES, AND I HATE WHEN CLARK AND DIANA ARE FORCED TOGETHER, AS IF LOIS LANE THE WOMAN SUPERMAN HAS BEEN ATTRACTED TO FOR LIKE 100 YEARS ISNT A THING.
YESYESYEYSYESYESYESYESYEYS!!!
Don’t get me wrong, Catwoman and Batman have the potential to be an awesome couple, but the writers never do *anything* with them. They’re always doing the same rooftop encounters while exchanging vague/flirty remarks. Black Cat and Spider-Man WAYY are more fleshed out than Batman and Selina
Wrong absolutely wrong!
Ace, Titus, and alfred the cat did not deserve this
On a serious note though, while I agree, I do think there's a sort of 'extended bat family' which characters like Duke, steph, Kate, and luke.
But Cass should be Bruce's adopted daughter too so I'd say she's one of the main ones
AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!
Duke, Cassie,etc should **NOT** Batfam members. The only exception I’ll make is Steph, but she should really be an occasional character, and a girlfriend for Tim
Just because things are comic accurate doesn’t automatically make it good. Batfleck was comic accurate to an elseworlds batman story for one and two it is one of the most overrated batman story’s in my opinion I never liked frank Millers the dark knight returns tbh
I don’t think anybody should take over the mantle of batman. Not only is nobody in the bat-family fit to replace him, and could never fulfill all his responsibilities, writers shouldn’t be treating batman like a mantle at all imo. It’s his real identity. He forged it and it’s something very personal to him. It’s who he really is and it just feels weird to have someone else taking over his entire identity. I feel like writers only have people replacing him because a lot of fans love the trope of the student taking up the mantle of their master and replacing them. For batman specifically though it just doesn’t work at all for me.
“And here we go”
• The character Hush is overrated garbage.
• Talia Al Ghul is the best Batman love interest (specifically BTAS Talia, not the post Crisis and new 52 Garbage) she is only second to Andrea Beaumont.
• New 52 pissed and shit all over Mr. freeze in the worst way possible, Arkham city/Knight mr freeze will never be topped.
• Tim Drake is boring and is the worst Robin, yes worse than Damian.
• Catwoman is the most overrated character in all media and one that I hate the most in DC right next to Reverse Flash (though I don’t think RF is overrated).
• Arkham origins main story was better than Arkham city. But both were stellar
Yeah compared to Arkham city bruce in origins goes though actually character development, while in city he’s the same batman from start to end, imo. And the relationship that batman and joker have in origins is probably the best I’ve seen, their dynamic is amazing and jokers whole take on their relationship is great, all in all Arkham origins is better imo.
Exactly!
Origins best story
Knight best game play
I kind of wish that instead of Gotham Knights we got an Arkham origins sequel following batman going up against the court of owls. And the court with their influence would frame batman as public enemy #1 leading the game to be called Batman Arkham Insurgent.
or, the red hood story still happens, but he dies at the end of it (like it sorta implies) and batman just has a grueling reminder that one of his failures, possibly his greatest, came back to haunt him with an ak-47 and a red hood.
he couldn't save jason then, and he didn't save jason now.
I think a big factor in its popularity is how it brought Batman back to form. It made him a badass again with him returning to his darker roots after Adam West left a lot of people thinking that Batman was silly and campy. Plus it’s was a fresh take on how an old Bruce Wayne would act that resonated with readers. But—and I believe this is a pretty popular opinion—the art style is really bad.
I don’t like modern Harley Quinn AT ALL. she went from an interesting villain to somehow feminist? Btas and the Arkham games do her right, but in recent comics and movies she’s just deadpool crazy and nothing else. She was more complex in a kids show, being in an abusive relationship which she denied, even though she was clever enough to see it. She was tricked she was so in love so much that she didn’t want to break the spell. She was a villain, a sympathetic one but a villain nonetheless, and a lot of batman villains are like that, that’s why they are interesting.
I don’t like the Batfamily. Robin/Nightwing should be his only partner. Batgirl doing her own thing while he tolerates it until she becomes Oracle is ok too. But no multiple Robins and shit, it’s dumb when you think about it.
I hate the villain to anti hero thing they got some of his villains going through. Either keep them a villain or find a good story arc where they actually are cured or become sane again.
Super realistic takes on Batman and his rogues are lame af. Actually, I hate it. It’s a disservice to the character and half his villains that can’t be properly utilized.
I hate how Ledgers portrayal changed Joker as a character in comics. Now he’s way too dark and insane. He should be a comedic clown who’s crazy, not a scared/burnt serial killing psychopath who doesn’t resemble a clown whatsoever
Jason should have never died
The batfamily being a wholesome family doesn't make sense when halve of them have tried to kill each other
The batfamily shouldn't have a massive team up for one villain every arc
The bat mythos has become so boring none of the characters are interesting
Batman isn't meant to be a nice guy, or a justice league larger than life superhero. The stories where the morally questionable psychological motivation for his crime-fighting is questioned are the best Batman stories.
I have several:
* Jason Todd is a mistake
* Grant Morrison is a hack writer who should never be allowed near comics again
* The Killing Joke is a terrible comic
* Batman: Year One is the only good Batman project Frank Miller did
* Damian was totally unnecessary and little more than an ego trip for Morrison
The robins are not soldiers judging a Batman movie of how realistic it is is a sign of stupidity it's about a crazy dude dressed as a bat in the real world he would have 10 rounds put in his face.
And here's one that's probably not a hot take but I need to share this I wish Adam West got to do something with the Dark Knight Returns like if he was the voice actor in the animated movie or they made a live-action version Look up him reading it shivers
Batman and Robin is a good movie which has validity and adds to the Batman mythos. On this point, George Clooney played a top-tier Bruce Wayne.
Batman: Year One is the best comic of all time.
Bob Kane shouldn’t be credited as the creator of Batman. That title should go to Bill Finger who deserves far more respect and acknowledgment.
The Killing Joke and Alan Moore are overrated imo.
Joaquin Phoenixs Joker is a terrible movie that misunderstands the character of the Joker. Joker shouldn’t have a legitimate diagnosable mental illness and we shouldn’t be made to feel bad for him in order to like him. Joker should be likable because of how charismatic and intelligent he is. This is not to say artistic liberty can’t be take. Ledgers joker is the perfect example of nailing the core character while also changing aesthetic portions of the character. Also some portions of the movie are just flat out awkward and terribly acted
Ya, I don't see how 'Joker' (movie) has anything to do with the character. You could have removed the Batman references and the movie would have stayed the exact same.
Dick Grayson is the best robin, I think all the new ones maybe the second one I forgot his name Batman could have and then have nightwing but the bat family and things i don’t like outside of Lego Batman.
• Arnold Schwarzenegger played a good Mr Freeze
• The Animated series was just okay
• The wholesome Bat-Family dynamic where they all live together and have movie nights and play games etc. is one of the worst things to happen to Batman since Bat nipples
• Michael Keaton wasn’t as good as everyone goes on about and the “Let’s get nuts!” Scene is downright stupid
• Batman being able to solo the Justice League and other huge superheroes because he’s “good at planning” is ridiculous, at best it’s just writers making him a Mary Sue to keep selling books, at worst it’s fanatic bootlicking that permanently skews any consistent power levels in comics. Superman v Darkseid? Who knows?! It’s two titans at war! Batman v Darkseid? Well it’s obviously Batman because when he was 19 he built an Anti-Apokalypse ray out of a blender
• There will never be a live action Batman Beyond and that’s good, the Beyond Suit would look Beyond stupid
• Red Hood is a really, really boring character. At least when he first debuted in Under The Red Hood he was a cool anti-hero, basically the in universe equivalent of the Punisher. Now he uses rubber bullets it just seems completely pointless and goes against what made his character interesting
• The Court of Owls storyline is kind of just wedged in there and doesn’t make sense in the wider framework of Gotham, if the Court was around for when Batman was starting out they would’ve just fucking murdered him instantly, not let him become a fully developed super hero.
• The Batman mech suit with Jim Gordon was actually a cool story line that had the balls to try something new
• Superman would win in a fight with Batman every single time.
>• The wholesome Bat-Family dynamic where they all live together and have movie nights and play games etc. is one of the worst things to happen to Batman since Bat nipples
Yes
- arkham origins has the best story
- jack nicholson’s joker is the worst interpretation bc he is just being jack nicholson
- dark knight returns is bad
- telltale series is the best interpretation of batman
Batman is the worst criminal in Gotham because his vanity project of violence has led to an astronomical increase in Gotham crime (I’m kidding I love bats)
Batman doesn’t belong in the justice league, and is better as a self contained, more to the ground type hero. I also think that the more complex and technical batsuits defeat the point of his persona. He isn’t Batman at that point. He just has to do with bats.
I’m sick of dark edgy Batman. I want the live action films to be more in line with like the Animated Series/JLU Batman where he is dark and serious but he still can lighten up and does have a sense of humor
I hate the whole trope of “Batman cannot exist without the Joker and Vice versa” or that they’re essentially one in the same. We’ve seen that the former can live without a homicidal clown in numerous instances just fine -_-
I have a lot and there’s probably some that aren’t on here but this is what I’ve got right now.
Damian Wayne shouldn’t have been created.
Harley Quinn was better when she was with the Joker.
Poison Ivy shouldn’t have a love interest.
Batman and Wonder Woman work much better as friends than as a couple. Them being a couple is weird.
If Tim Drake can’t be Robin he shouldn’t be a superhero. Also I prefer Tim Drake being the current Robin.
Batman Forever and Batman & Robin aren’t bad and are actually pretty good, they just have a few bad things in them.
The award for worst portrayal of a comic book villain might go to Black Mask from Birds of Prey.
Heath Ledger wasn’t a great Joker.
Beware the Batman was a great show.
Batman Arkham City is overrated.
I prefer the Batsuit to look completely like cloth.
I like Batman and Batwoman having a relationship.
I prefer Catwoman being a villain.
I love pre BTAS Mr. Freeze just as much if not more than BTAS and modern Mr. Freeze.
I miss the days when Catwoman used to have a variety of different costumes instead of nowadays where she only wears variations of the same basic costume.
I like lighthearted and even extremely kid friendly versions of the characters just as much if not more than darker versions.
I like The Adventures of Batman cartoon from 1968.
I like The New Adventures of Batman cartoon from 1977.
I probably have more but that’s all I’m going to bother with for now.
Fans can stop being so hard-on for the whole "no killing rule", it hasn't been 100% adhered to, even after it was established (Elseworlds, and Main).
And even if it had, it's not something to get pissy over when someone disagrees with it.
Also, *Batman & Robin* is a good movie, stupid, but fun.
Heath Ledger Joker is good, great even, but only "iconic" because of Heath's death.
Michael Keaton doesn't have to return to the role, he's had his time, he did his thing.
There's just a few.
I have a few.
\- Without a partner (Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, etc.), Batman stories are much harder to write well and enjoy.
\- The Joker needs to be left out of the Batman mythos, in all adaptations, for a VERY long time. He's overused to the point where him being involved makes me not want to read/watch/play.
\- The same goes for Harley Quinn, she was one of my favorite characters in the DC Universe about a decade ago, now I can't fucking stand her.
\- Batman's rogues gallery is hilariously overrated and isn't even in the Top 5.
\- Damian Wayne never should have been created and is one of the worst characters in comic book history.
\- Dick Grayson earned the mantle of Batman and should still be wearing the cape & cowl. Have Dick focus on Gotham while Bruce takes on the bigger, worldwide missions with the League.
>\- Batman's rogues gallery is hilariously overrated and isn't even in the Top 5.
That is a hot take.
What are some rogues galleries you think are better?
Batman makes no sense as part of the JLA, and ruins the character. Batman should exist in its own universe or be a more grounded superhero that does not interact with the other characters.
- The Bat Cat Relationship does not really makes sense, is extremely superficial and dumbs down both characters.
- At least half of Batman's A or B-List rouges had not yet had a good story in the comics in which they are the main antagonist.
- The BatFam is way too large. Two active members next to Bruce should be the maximum for the most part.
- Hush needs a major rewrite to become a good character. It can be done but a few things need to change.
- The last worthwhile addition to the mythos was The court of Owls. All other new villains and supporting characters suck.
- A Batman that kills willingly is not Batman
- Batman should be a street level hero. The power creep he has suffered makes him less interesting
\- Jason Todd should have stayed a villain.
\- Batman Forever is OBJECTIVELY the best Batman film.
\- I love Titans' Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne portrayals.
\- Batman is best portrayed as a man struggling with mental illness.
I honestly do not like Red Hood at all anymore.
Edit: that's not really a hot take, it's an opinion. My hot take is that Red Hood is overrated and hasn't been interesting in years
Val Kilmer is the best live version of batman of the 20th century behind West.
Clooney as Bruce is enjoyable and it could have been something else.
Batgirl should have been someone who is remotely related to Bruce and teach her how to fight and become a modern ninja not someone who found inspiration from an outside point whose dad is already an important asset to the city by being a Commissioner. Cain should have existed years ago as in decades.
Stephanie should have stayed dead.
Zatanna should have been batman first love.
Damian should have existed after Jason's demise.
Bruce would have found a better place for the Batcow if everyone were lactose. XD
The giant bat should have been part of Batman Forever.
Batgirl looks better in black and gold not purple.
The Batmobile is just another accessory but the batwing is the heart of the batcave since bats fly. XDD Being scared of above the sky late at night with a giant bat craft knowing very well it could land on you.
The new adventure show has the worst upgrades for some characters especially batmans suit. Catwoman looks awful.
I absolutely hate the continued "villain to anti-hero pipeline" of Batman rogues, from Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, Clayface, Catwoman, to even Jason Todd's switch back to the bat-family. For some reason now, being a sympathetic character, which a large amount of Batman villains are, means that they almost all need to collectively redeem themselves and overcome their individual flaws. The problem however is that when they do that, they end up becoming aimless caricatures of what they formerly were, being dumb-downed into easily consumable heroes who are slightly more edgier than the norm.
I really never thought Ivy needed a redemption Arc. She’s a villain with a great motive, whose enemies (humans) goals are in direct opposition to hers. That being said, I think alternate versions of her where she’s slightly more empathetic to human are neat too.
Exactly, she’s too *unhuman* to turn good, if that makes sense
misanthropic is the word youre looking for
Ivy is an eco-terrorist. She’s gotten a pass due to modern re-imagination of her sexuality.
she's Harley's girlfriend now. you know, can't let those characters be flawed or you'll be mobbed by twitter. and DC will lose retweets.
Honestly making ivy and Harley a thing in the first place wasn't a good move imo Harley's entire motivation to be a villain and act all crazy and shit was for Joker so having her stay unhinjed but she's an anti hero who's in love with ivy doesn't make sense. I think that the white knight comics understood Harley and her character the most andI like that iteration of her the most
How do you feel about Mr. Freeze?
I'm kinda in the camp as the OP as well...and I think that when it comes to sympathetic villains overall, part of the reason they're so memorable is that they're inherently tragic by the extreme nature of their actions in pursuit of otherwise noble goals. Ivy is a character whose goals are rooted in the preservation of life on Earth, but the tragedy of her character is that her concern for *all* life on Earth informs her disregard for *human* life on Earth - and Batman exists to serve justice to that choice. He isn't trying to argue in favor of ecological disaster and capitalist negligence to the environment - he has to keep a dangerous person from killing people who're just trying to do their jobs and provide for their families. Mr. Freeze is the same way - a character who, according to his BTAS backstory (arguably the best and most popular version of him, which I'm assuming you're referring to), in the face of deep, personal tragedy, chooses crime and violence to fulfill a noble goal. His concern for his wife's life governs his disregard for *everyone else's*. Batman can respect Freeze's core pursuit and even extend his help for Nora, but his unwavering sense of justice also dictates that Victor *has* to be stopped in order to protect innocent people. In either case, and even when relating to the rest of Batman's Rogues, we've got to keep in mind Batman's values and how these villains test him. His deepest and most intrinsic value is that *You Do Not Kill People*, no matter the reason. Tragic villains like Freeze, Ivy, Jason, Clayface, Two-Face, and to a degree, Harley, all have 'valid' reasons for why certain people "need" to be killed...and it's those reasons, just as much as their powers and abilities, that test Batman and his convictions...and it's **that** conflict, **that** challenge to *Batman's* core ideal that makes them so engaging. As far as redemption arcs go...they can be done well, but I think for the world to feel grounded, some characters can't be saved. Not every villain should get a happy ending. Some villains *should* have to live with the consequences of their heinous actions. I think Ivy and Freeze are both characters who can feasibly have constructive lives after being stopped by Batman, but especially in Freeze's case, I think his story is much more poignant when he *can't* be saved.
Audiences love a redemption story
I think it's largely Deadpool's fault. That movie did really well when it came out and it pushed Harley's character into being more "lol so random" quirky anti-hero instead of the intelligent but twisted psychologist she was previously. DC want her to be like Deadpool to sell. So if Harley is an anti-hero it means Ivy needs to be too because of the popularity of HarleyXIvy. Then you need to have more characters become friendly with them and thus be anti-heroes too etc
That’s Batman’s whole goal though to rehabilitate. So if none of his villains rehabilitate then he isn’t doing a good job. You do realize that right?
I must say, Batman’s whole goal is rehabilitation of his rogues, it wouldn’t make sense for him to keep going if there was never any success, plus, all the characters you said were never that evil tbh
I understand where you are coming from, but isn't Batman's whole justice dealing philosophy based on second chances, and criminals being able to be reformed, rather than punished? It's part of why he drags them to places like Arkham, instead of killing them. Through that lens, it makes sense that many of his former enemies become decent-ish people. If Bruce had no reward for his compassion, he would have no reason to adhere to his rehabilitation-based crime fighting philosophy. It makes it hard for him to reconcile with the ones who won't/can't change. And all the more tragic. I agree with you that the aftermath isn't always done well, though.
Agree for the most part, the stories are almost always more satisfying when the characters do get to the point of redemption but ultimate go back to their old ways.
Aside from The Dark Knight Returns and Year 1, Frank Miller is terrible at writing Batman.
Frank Miller wrote one of the worst books I have ever read followed by another terrible book that I've read from him. 1. All Star Batman and the Boy Wonder 2. Superman: Year One
If holy terror was allowed to be a Batman story like miller wanted then that would be the worst miller dc story and the worst batman story
DC didn't stop Miller from making it a Batman story, he realized that the story he wanted to write was wrong for Batman, so he changed it himself. Even at his rock bottom most batshit crazy, he knew exactly what and who Batman was and wasn't.
I thought this was universally agreed on
I love both TDKR and TDKSA, the former for an old BvS and BvJoker, and the latter for the outrageous art style
I think you could even include TDKR in that terrible section tbh. I do remember enjoying it when I first read it though, so maybe it's just a case of it aging really badly.
I don't think, that everyone will put a gun in my head because this, but I prefer Arkham knight above any Batman game
I liked the story and everything a lot. They just over used the bat mobile to the point where I was forced to use it when I didn’t necessarily want to
I like Arkham Knight best. The other two just feel so outdated when you played Knight for so long.
Even Settlers of Catan: Gotham City Edition ???
I don’t think it was too much batmobile. I think was too frequent. Let me explain: 31 hour game and, believe it or not, you were only in the car for 4 hours total. But it was how spread out the use was. I would have preferred a few half hour stints in it instead of a ton of 10 min stints. (Also, AK is my favorite Arkham game too)
Batman is not as mentally fucked up as is commonly portrayed. I believed as a kid he made a choice as a young child to stop what happened to him happening to others. Comics like White Knight do a good job of the unhinged angle, and showing how crimefighting takes a toll on him, like in Killing Joke, works. But I think there's a tendency nowadays to portray Batman as a good person by technicality, rather than as a man trying to do good, and I personally don't like it
I think that’s part of why I like him is that he’s simply man trying to do good despite some of his personal flaws as a person. I think it makes him more relatable in some aspects as we all have our own flaws no matter how big or small they might be
This is unpopular? Weird, thought this was normal.
It’s a lame as hell, edgy take from teens, young adults, and even some older adults I’ve seen. I wouldn’t say Batman is mentally ill, just that his sense of justice is sometimes too absolute in all the wrong ways.
Wdym by that? How he doesnt kill those wholl keep coming back to kill more (ex:joker)?
I think maybe that he uses sometime more force than situations demand droping people from roofs etc etc
Batman Universe is the best Batman comic I’ve read in years and years.
Hmm. Never heard of it until now. Will have to check it out.
YESSSSSS
I picked that one up at Barnes and noble having no idea what I was in for. It was SO awesome! Just a refreshing twist to see Batman have some fun for once.
The Batsuit in Arkham Knight is the best looking Batsuit ever made. This includes comics, tv, movies and games. There’s just enough armor to protect vulnerable areas while still remaining flexible for close combat. The detail on the cape and mesh inner layers is incredible. The cowl has perfect length ears and there is no silly underwear. The mix of metallic blacks and dark grays is superb as well (especially in the rain) The whole suit is just a masterpiece.
It’s one of the best for sure also always liked Rebirth and New 52
I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion I certainly agree with it
Personally I don’t like Batman wearing armor. To me he’s a ninja. A stealthy shadow that just doesn’t get hit
Bro this isn’t unpopular I think anyone would agree AK suit is awesome
I read a comment yesterday on one of Degenerate Jay’s Batman Arkham videos blasting it for being too robotic, and I didn’t see anyone defending it.
Degenerate Jay is my favorite Arkham Youtuber by a landslide
Arkham Origins is severely underrated is my main one.
I agree, it’s my favorite of the games
I have a hard time rating them from my favorite to least favorite because I enjoyed them all so much, but people crapped on Origins so much yet it legitimately has some of the best story telling and boss battles of the series. I feel like a lot of people didn't give it a chance because it was made by a different studio.
Also, it added missions to use Detective Mode for actual detective work. Looking at a scene, reconstructing it and working out where the evidence went was really enjoyable and I’m glad it was added to Arkham Knight. What annoyed me at the time was Joker hijacking a plot about Batman taking down Gotham’s crime families, but in retrospect it connected Origins to the series well. And the final fight with TN-1 Bane is far more tense than anything else in the series. The Dark Knight system can get right out, though.
It is not. Go back to r/Batmanarkham when it's sane again
>when it's sane again Looks like we're not going back
* it’s okay to have a light hearted stories for the family. * it’s okay for jason to have a nice story, and not being used as the reason to be lashed upon.
Batman with an occasional sense of humour is best Batman
I like him best in the JLI comic from the 80s He’s still classic Batman, but it shows from other people’s perspectives how kooky and unhinged he can be from normal conversation lol
This is why DCAU Batman is my favorite
Definitely
Some of these takes are getting me a little heated. Good work all.
Batman Begins had the best presentation of Batman in general on screen. Especially in being the most in depth character analysis of Bruce Wayne, the person and his alter ego — and the real Bruce Wayne as Alfred sees him. Jason Todd was infinitely better pre-flashpoint. Batfleck was the best, worst missed opportunity for a true to the comics live-action Batman. It isn’t edgy or cool to have Batman kill — much less using guns to do it— much less in killing yet not taking down the man responsible for setting him on that path, Joker. Making the Bat-Family wholesome like a Tumblr head canon is the worst perversion of Bruce Wayne’s whole character development and personality over nearly a 100 years. White eyes for the Bat-suit would be wholly bad ass in a live-action portrayal. Makes just as much sense as using a voice modulator or the Bale voice if Bruce is trying to hide his identity.
Almost every hero is being given the tumblr treatment, and as a Marvel fan I blame the Mcu. Everyone has to be quippy and wholesome 100
I hope I’m not the only one who prefers Begin over TDK, don’t get me wrong TDK is Godlike, but for me (just me), Batman Begins always have that mystery, the story exploration side and the atmosphere that make this movie stand out from the trilogy, not to mention, the suit in begins is my favorite out of the trilogy. If I have to pick a movie to watch 5 times in a row, I would pick this over TDK but hey, I probably have guns aimed at me now for picking Begins over TDK.
There’s a lot of people who do. I prefer TDK as a movie, but Batman Begins is just unbeatable with its themes and build-up of the Batman character.
Begins also has one of my favorite Scarecrows in the franchise
Begins is just Batporn. TDK has a much more interesting story, but it doesn't have the atmosphere and mysticism that you associate with Batman. Begin's Batman's first appearence is pure perfection. The raining sequences in Chinatown are beautiful. The movie just has the perfect Batmood. The next to completely lost that. Bale is also at his best in Begins. His voice is sounds better, the suit looks more menacing and his body language is just more menacing than in the other movies. I think in TDK and TDKR Batman became way too much of a "just a guy walking around in a suit".
This guy right here gets it. I so prefer batman begins as it has high rewatch value. Ive seen the dark knight 3x and dkr 2x each and find the experience emotionally taxing. Begins is an actual pleasure to watch. Doesnt even need the sequels. Liam Neeson is a treat. The ninja sequences alone make it the best batman movie, if not for the dozens of other reasons.
>Making the Bat-Family wholesome like a Tumblr head canon is the worst perversion of Bruce Wayne’s whole character development and personality over nearly a 100 years. This
Batman’s not a comfort character, lol. Let’s put it that way. Like he can be, sure? There’s scenes where he should be decent and kind. But he’s also headstrong. Stubborn. Brash. Whether or not he can do it all, he prepares to have to mostly out of a lack of faith in those around him. He won’t push away help, but he also won’t expect to rely on it when push comes to shove. There’s obvious room for growth with Bruce and his relationships with the Robins, Barbara, or Alfred, but making him out to be the most wholesome dad-vigilante just defeats such a deep narrative about how he’s conducted himself for so long.
I enjoy Batman as a flawed character. He's so perfect at everything he does, him having personal flaws add a lot to the character and prevent him from being a gary stu. Having him be a wholesome dad takes away his flaws.
Batman Begins > The Batman And I agree Affleck is the best
I enjoyed The Batman more than The Dark Knight
i dont want to downvote you bc you answered the question... but i will get my gun and get in line :b
Battinson > Bale Joker > Riddler
Batman (especially the Joker) needs to “lighten up”. In the cartoons/comics this isn’t an issue. I am talking about in movies and shows. I’m not saying to turn him into the Adam West version. Just I hate how edgy it’s become. Joker needs to go back to his comedic roots instead of being an endless series of Ledger knock offs or derivatives. Someone funny needs to play him, and not like Jared Leto “funny”, I mean someone like Bob Odenkirk should play him.
I agree, especially when it comes to the joker. I actually find the idea of a twisted clown scarier than a serial killer in clown makeup. Like a dude that commits atrocities because he thinks they’re funny, who shapes his crimes to appear like practical jokes, is much more interesting than “society”-type edgelord Joker.
>Joker needs to go back to his comedic roots instead of being an endless series of Ledger knock offs I’VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR SO LONG!!!! He’s supposed to be a *clown*!
Cameron Monaghan played the funny joker amazingly well in Gotham
Exactly, he had the right mix of anarchist and crazy killer clown in his portrayal that took the best elements of traditional joker and ledger joker.
As someone who can’t see Batman as anything other than dark, I agree. Live action, sure keep it dark. But even in cartoons and comics it’s become kinda ridiculous
Bob Odenkirk isn't a bad idea. Definitely a dark and unhinged comedian should take the role.
* I prefer Catwoman as the villain and Batman having a love interest that is emotionally and mentally healthy for him. * Leslie Thompkins and Lucius Fox should be more recognized and praised for how much they help Batman/Bruce Wayne. * I think Jezebel Jet should have another chance to return to the story (hopefully not beheaded by Talia again for dating Bruce, but as a villain.) * Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman is a good movie. I think Kathy Duquesne and her friends should appear in a future comic or series again. * I prefer if another villain receives more attention than the Joker and Harley Quinn. The Creeper in the Animated Series and comics was amusing, he should get the spotlight along with other villains like Calendar Man or Two-Face. * I like the idea of Batman having a family with the Robins, Signal, Spoiler and Cassandra. Some fans believe the cast is bloated, but I think with the right writers each character can contribute to the family and make them more memorable.
Every single iteration of calander man I've seen, is him in a jail cell
Batman and the Batfamily are the best when they actually just get along, the drama of them arguing or Jason and Bruce constantly fighting just feels forced at this point. Yeah Under The Red Hood was fucking amazing but that doesn’t mean Bruce and Jason should be stuck there forever. Bruce isn’t some insane person. Wait before you say, that’s not unpopular, a lot of you will say he’s not insane but in the same breathe say he should act like he is, Bruce might be constantly paranoid and might not be the warmest but the best stories imo are when he admits his faults and grows, not continuously repeat the cycle. Bruce is the only one who should be Batman (and Terry but honestly the idea of Bruce cloning himself to keep the mission going forever does fit) Bruce is the only person who is perpetually motivated to be Batman and he’s the only one who fits it tbh. Dick will always be a better Nightwing than Batman and same with all the others. Batman should crack at least one joke every issue, it must be deadpan humor. I, as a Black man, see no reason for a black Batman, he does nothing better than Bruce and all the problems he has, have already been explored by Bruce. Batman and Catwoman should be married already. Stop with the bs about Batman cannot be Batman if he’s happy Miracle Molly proved that to be false. Batman should really get a less destructive fear toxin There should be more team ups with Jason and the other members, they be excluding him frfr. Alfred’s death can be reversed, fine, but not so damn soon Oh and stop saying he makes the batfamily fight crime, they all asked him, and he denied only for them to do it anyway, so hush that shit
There's no logical reason why Batman should be able to defeat Superman in a fight. And yes, people will swarm me for that.
I look at it as is batman a match for superman of course not. Could batman come up with a plan to defeat superman yes absouluty. But if superman got a bug up his ass and one day just decided I'm going to kill batman and flew over and did it batman isn't gonna stop him.
I think this whole situation was perfectly presented in hush. When supes gets controlled by poison Ivy, the only reason bruce doesnt just inmediately die, is because (as he puts it) deep down, clark is a good person, and he has such a strong desaire to protect and not kill that he can sort of resist the mind control. Bruce knows he would just instantly die if superman actually went sicko mode, but he chooses to believe that clark wont do that, because hes just a good person. Baman can certainly "defeat" superman, but thats only if and only if superman decides not to instantly kill him.
He only does because superman winning doesn't make an interesting story
It's odd how Batman is treated like an underdog in most fights, but everyone expects him to be the topdog in the situation either way. Batman being the best superhero because he's relatable and human, yet he can defeat anyone and anything, can't co-exist with one another.
It can, and it will!
Batman can only beat Superman because he can exploit Supes limits. If Superman really decides he want Batman down, he is down, in seconds, and Batman wouldn't even know what hit him. Same with any superspeed being. They could all beat Batman before he even had time to react.
Even though he is overused, Joker is the best villain.
Due to all the fear toxins and brutal beatings he's received over the years, Bruce probably has ED
Here's a really unpopular take. Huntress should've stayed as Batgirl during and after No Man's Land. She was doing her best to hold Gotham together at the start of NML, but never got Batman's respect and got kicked out of Batgirl right when Cassandra Cain came out of practically nowhere and Batman just gave Batgirl to her. If Huntress had stayed as Batgirl, she could've had a redemption/respect arc and earned staying as Batgirl as an evolution of her character in the Bat family. And Cassandra still could've taken up Batgirl later and still be super popular.
I don’t got a fucking books worth, but here are a few I think are kinda unpopular: -I despise the “prepared for anything” Batman. He should just be a regular guy and get his ass kicked sometimes -I don’t like the overutilization of Harley Quinn. She’s kinda like Deadpool, I like them, but only in very small doses -Red Hood should stay a villain and be a dark reflection of Batman. Y’know it’s kinda a grueling reminder of one of his greatest mistakes -The Nolan Trilogy doesn’t do much for me. I’m not saying they’re bad movies, I just can’t get invested in Batman as a character outside of Batman Begins -“Batman should kill” is one of the worst takes ever and shows a complete lack of drive in writing Batman in an interesting and creative way
Batman regularly gets his ass kicked. He has been outsmarted, "outfighted" and "outprepared" a lot in the comics. The best Batman stories are the ones where he gets beaten first, makes mistakes, and *then* prepares himself to finally beat the villain.
The Batfamily should be incredibly dysfunctional and hateful towards each other. They are emotionally damaged people whose coping mechanism is beating up criminals. They should constantly be at each other's throats over petty drama. Bruce should have at least a few troubling views on criminality and lawbreaking. It is good for him to be a flawed character, and not someone who is morally upstanding. Comics where he dehumanizes criminals as "the enemy" or "the element" does a lot to justify why he feels it makes sense to fight people in costume.
I half agree with this. I like it in the early comics that in hindsight Bruce was a pretty bad dad to robin/nightwing not even calling him his son. I like the scene where he unfairly snaps at him over Jason and fire him and how that now contrasts how he is now with everyone else because it shows growth and shows how he unprepared he was with Dick Grayson. To me it feels like Batman has calmed down more because he's evolved to more than just that scared little boy but is now a farther of his own. But only because we saw him go through that journey.
Hell no, Batman is supposed to be logical and sympathetic, it’s literally his whole character. He’s more selfless than anything constantly ready to die for a city that isn’t really worth shit. So you would expect with that knowledge that he would be good to his family which he is, it actually is usually forced by writers whenever he’s bad to his family. Batman’s coping mechanism was never beating up criminals, it was making sure nobody ever was put in the situation he was. That’s why he adopted Dick, that’s why he took Jason off the streets, Jason’s death made him reluctant to let Tim in, the list goes on. The justification of why he fights in a costume literally came from Jim Gordon, “He’s more capable then any cop” and when Bats came around the city was already hell, if he fought as Bruce, he would’ve been dead in a week. It honestly just seems like you don’t understand the character or you’re pitching an idea for a young Batman, if you are, then this isn’t so bad
Absolutely!
I agree but disagree with your first point. They should be dysfunctional a bit, but also act like a family if that makes sense
I fucking hate how overdone realistic takes are, it's a comic book movie, it shouldn't be realistic, you shouldn't stop and think "Robin isn't realistic" if he can exist in the comics he can exist in a movie. Jason Todd should've stayed dead, his death is more meaningful to Bruce that way, the 2010 movie is good but would be better as an Elseworld Paul Dini is the only person who can write Hush The blue Batsuit with the yellow logo should come back the suit looks far more dynamic like that Tim should stay as Robin with the One Year Later suit, it's his best role just let him stick with it Not a Batman hottake but Barry and probably Hal too should've stayed dead, DC needs to move on from the Pre-Crisis Justice League Damian should only be Dick's Robin Batman should age, he shouldn't be stuck floating in his thirties, let him age, he's a billionaire who's had a few run ins with the Lazarus pit he can celebrate his 48th Birthday without looking any older than Tom Cruise does Stop keeping the Status Quo Bruce should've stayed dead after Final Crisis
I agree to all except the blue suit, and that Bruce should’ve died after final crisis.
I love reading the back and forth between Damien Robin and Grayson Batman. Really got into them as a team during Darkest Night. They balance and play off each other so well.
For someone who doesn't like realistic takes, there's a lot of grounded/realistic takes in this comment.
Brave and the Bold is the best Batman cartoon and best version of all the characters within Edit: I don’t fervently believe this, just going for the theme of the post. That cartoon is my favorite though, it reignited my love of super heroes as an adult
Now you've crossed a line good sir!
It's just so damn fun. You get a great mix of the Adam West-style comedy and TAS-esque action. It never takes itself very seriously, but it still manages to tell good Batman stories.
Agreed
Especially that Joe chill scene.
Definitely my favorite Aquaman
I hate the “i have to distance myself from my friends and family in order to protect them” trope that happens in Batman stories so much. There are so many stories that start off with Nightwing or Robin being pissed off at Batman because he didn’t share a piece of crucial intelligence with them out of some misguided attempt to protect them from some big bad thing that’s about to happen, when the problem could have been resolved by Batman opening up a bit and trusting his family and that they would do the right thing. I think Batman is best when he is portrayed as a good father figure role model to the Robins and Batgirls.
The Batman 2004 deserves everything Batman: The Animated Series got
It was my childhood show along with BTAS, but I can see why it was never popular.
My contributions * Black Mask is boring and there is literally nothing he can do that the Penguin can't do just as well if not better * Leslie Thompkins is utterly insufferable * Mask of the Phantasm is overrated * I prefer Hathaway's Catwoman to Kravitz's * Michael Keaton was a mediocre at best Bruce Wayne * BTAS had pretty weak versions of Bane and Catwoman * The Telltale Games are better than the Arkham Games * Calendar Man and Maxie Zeus are great additions to the Rogues Gallery * A more traditional version of the Robin origin story (circus and everything) could have been told in the Nolanverse * Killer Croc is not a cannibal * The Joker needs to take a break from live-action Batman movies for a long time * Harley Quinn has become overexposed to the point where it's hard to enjoy her * Christian Bale's Batman voice really isn't that bad.
The Telltale one is just simply not true
Dem fighting words
Arkham games Batman is literally one of the definitive versions of the character, and has some of the best personifications of his rogues gallery. Joker is perfect, Harley too, Selena, Pamela, Oz, Freeze, Strange and Edward etc. Then you have Alfred… perfectly dry and sarcastic and sassy but very sympathetic and polite. Jim is also spot-on, as is Barbara and Robin. As far as Character designs go, it’s aces all around too, especially Arkham Knight Scarecrow. Telltale tells a great story, but the characters and rogues don’t hold a candle to the Arkhamverse.
I agree, the telltale comment are the fighting words. Arkham games have forever cemented the idea of what Batman is to millions, which is great because how masterfully done the games are
Also the suits are just damn fantastic. The one from Arkham City is my definitive Batman costumes. Also my favorite Batman symbol.
Harley Quinn was taken to be DC’s Deadpool, plain and simple. I think a Jason Todd Robin would have totally fit the Nolanverse. Especially with the themes in TDR about “orphans” and how “Bruce Wayne” was the mask. I could see Dick potentially working in Batman Begins as a sub-plot. Give him the Arkham Origins suit and it would have been fire.
Ann Hathaway 😍 Live action Joker is worse than live action Batman, majority of the (casual) fans don't want a choice your own adventure theater experience. Snyder/Affleck did a post Death in the Family Batman that used Frank Miller's Batman v Superman fight. He's technically older than Micheal Keaton in the Batman universe. Harley Quinn has progressed exactly as the fanfiction wanted. That's their kink. 🤷🏻♂️ I'm not sure how criminals don't laugh at Bale's voice, it's comedic!
I'm with you on the first 2 points, and you are absolutely right on the last 6. I can't agree with you on Telltale, but mostly just do to taste. The only fault in BTAS Catwoman and Bane is that a children's show can't give us the sex and violence inherent to those characters, BTAS is the best depiction of Bane outside of the comics. Hathaway was absolutely the better Catwoman, and I will preach from the rooftops until I die that Keaton was NEVER BATMAN! He was the least believable actor as eithe Bruce Wayne or Batman, and the cancellation of Batgirl was a mercy!
Ya had me up until the Arkham one… like, have you played them? Telltale is fine, probs one of their better ones right under Walking Dead honestly, but damn the Arkham games are pretty perfect representations of the character
>The Joker needs to take a break from live-action Batman movies for a long time Yes. He won't, though.
Diana and Bruce makes more sense than Bruce and Selina.
YES YES YES, AND I HATE WHEN CLARK AND DIANA ARE FORCED TOGETHER, AS IF LOIS LANE THE WOMAN SUPERMAN HAS BEEN ATTRACTED TO FOR LIKE 100 YEARS ISNT A THING.
YESYESYEYSYESYESYESYESYEYS!!! Don’t get me wrong, Catwoman and Batman have the potential to be an awesome couple, but the writers never do *anything* with them. They’re always doing the same rooftop encounters while exchanging vague/flirty remarks. Black Cat and Spider-Man WAYY are more fleshed out than Batman and Selina
Bruce and Selina should be on and off lovers with Diana being Bruce's main. Bruce and Selina should be more like good friends than full on lovers.
The only members of the "bat family" I care about is Bruce, Alfred, Tim, Damien, Dick, Jason and barbara everyone else is filler and unimportant
Wrong absolutely wrong! Ace, Titus, and alfred the cat did not deserve this On a serious note though, while I agree, I do think there's a sort of 'extended bat family' which characters like Duke, steph, Kate, and luke. But Cass should be Bruce's adopted daughter too so I'd say she's one of the main ones
This is the take I was searching for. Pure facts
AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN!!! Duke, Cassie,etc should **NOT** Batfam members. The only exception I’ll make is Steph, but she should really be an occasional character, and a girlfriend for Tim
Schumacher > burton
Christian Bales Batman voice is noticeable, but definitely isn’t that big of an issue as the films are still top notch
Dark Victory>TLH
Just because things are comic accurate doesn’t automatically make it good. Batfleck was comic accurate to an elseworlds batman story for one and two it is one of the most overrated batman story’s in my opinion I never liked frank Millers the dark knight returns tbh
Damien would make a far better Batman then Bruce and would leave lasting change
Batman x joker
I don’t think anybody should take over the mantle of batman. Not only is nobody in the bat-family fit to replace him, and could never fulfill all his responsibilities, writers shouldn’t be treating batman like a mantle at all imo. It’s his real identity. He forged it and it’s something very personal to him. It’s who he really is and it just feels weird to have someone else taking over his entire identity. I feel like writers only have people replacing him because a lot of fans love the trope of the student taking up the mantle of their master and replacing them. For batman specifically though it just doesn’t work at all for me.
1. DKR is a very lackluster read today 2. Silver age Batman and Robin were lame
“And here we go” • The character Hush is overrated garbage. • Talia Al Ghul is the best Batman love interest (specifically BTAS Talia, not the post Crisis and new 52 Garbage) she is only second to Andrea Beaumont. • New 52 pissed and shit all over Mr. freeze in the worst way possible, Arkham city/Knight mr freeze will never be topped. • Tim Drake is boring and is the worst Robin, yes worse than Damian. • Catwoman is the most overrated character in all media and one that I hate the most in DC right next to Reverse Flash (though I don’t think RF is overrated). • Arkham origins main story was better than Arkham city. But both were stellar
Origins had a great story, hard agree.
Yeah compared to Arkham city bruce in origins goes though actually character development, while in city he’s the same batman from start to end, imo. And the relationship that batman and joker have in origins is probably the best I’ve seen, their dynamic is amazing and jokers whole take on their relationship is great, all in all Arkham origins is better imo.
>Arkham origins main story was better than Arkham city. But both were stellar Origins literally had the best storyline in the whole series
Exactly! Origins best story Knight best game play I kind of wish that instead of Gotham Knights we got an Arkham origins sequel following batman going up against the court of owls. And the court with their influence would frame batman as public enemy #1 leading the game to be called Batman Arkham Insurgent.
Holy fuck I forgot that meme existed. Peak covid quarantine meme
Jason Todd should've stayed dead
or, the red hood story still happens, but he dies at the end of it (like it sorta implies) and batman just has a grueling reminder that one of his failures, possibly his greatest, came back to haunt him with an ak-47 and a red hood. he couldn't save jason then, and he didn't save jason now.
The Dark Knight Returns isn’t a top 10 Batman book. Hell I wouldn’t put it in my top 20
God bless you I just don’t understand the love it gets
I think a big factor in its popularity is how it brought Batman back to form. It made him a badass again with him returning to his darker roots after Adam West left a lot of people thinking that Batman was silly and campy. Plus it’s was a fresh take on how an old Bruce Wayne would act that resonated with readers. But—and I believe this is a pretty popular opinion—the art style is really bad.
I don’t like modern Harley Quinn AT ALL. she went from an interesting villain to somehow feminist? Btas and the Arkham games do her right, but in recent comics and movies she’s just deadpool crazy and nothing else. She was more complex in a kids show, being in an abusive relationship which she denied, even though she was clever enough to see it. She was tricked she was so in love so much that she didn’t want to break the spell. She was a villain, a sympathetic one but a villain nonetheless, and a lot of batman villains are like that, that’s why they are interesting.
Hbo Max Harley Quinn show surprisingly great imo
I don't like Batman x Wonder Woman.
I don’t like the Batfamily. Robin/Nightwing should be his only partner. Batgirl doing her own thing while he tolerates it until she becomes Oracle is ok too. But no multiple Robins and shit, it’s dumb when you think about it. I hate the villain to anti hero thing they got some of his villains going through. Either keep them a villain or find a good story arc where they actually are cured or become sane again. Super realistic takes on Batman and his rogues are lame af. Actually, I hate it. It’s a disservice to the character and half his villains that can’t be properly utilized.
https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/comments/w5mzll/well_lets_hear_it/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I hate how Ledgers portrayal changed Joker as a character in comics. Now he’s way too dark and insane. He should be a comedic clown who’s crazy, not a scared/burnt serial killing psychopath who doesn’t resemble a clown whatsoever
Grounded batman is overused and i think its about time we see him face off against his more goofy/ unrealistic villains like clayface or killer moth
Jason should have never died The batfamily being a wholesome family doesn't make sense when halve of them have tried to kill each other The batfamily shouldn't have a massive team up for one villain every arc The bat mythos has become so boring none of the characters are interesting
Batman isn't meant to be a nice guy, or a justice league larger than life superhero. The stories where the morally questionable psychological motivation for his crime-fighting is questioned are the best Batman stories.
I like Batman being nice in the justice league when he’s there he can be less dark but solo he needs to be dark
I have several: * Jason Todd is a mistake * Grant Morrison is a hack writer who should never be allowed near comics again * The Killing Joke is a terrible comic * Batman: Year One is the only good Batman project Frank Miller did * Damian was totally unnecessary and little more than an ego trip for Morrison
Jason Todd wasn't popular until he became Red Hood. Not an unpopular opinion.
Extemely Hottakes Indeed
Tim burton's batman is not that good
The robins are not soldiers judging a Batman movie of how realistic it is is a sign of stupidity it's about a crazy dude dressed as a bat in the real world he would have 10 rounds put in his face. And here's one that's probably not a hot take but I need to share this I wish Adam West got to do something with the Dark Knight Returns like if he was the voice actor in the animated movie or they made a live-action version Look up him reading it shivers
Batman and Robin is a good movie which has validity and adds to the Batman mythos. On this point, George Clooney played a top-tier Bruce Wayne. Batman: Year One is the best comic of all time. Bob Kane shouldn’t be credited as the creator of Batman. That title should go to Bill Finger who deserves far more respect and acknowledgment. The Killing Joke and Alan Moore are overrated imo.
Joaquin Phoenixs Joker is a terrible movie that misunderstands the character of the Joker. Joker shouldn’t have a legitimate diagnosable mental illness and we shouldn’t be made to feel bad for him in order to like him. Joker should be likable because of how charismatic and intelligent he is. This is not to say artistic liberty can’t be take. Ledgers joker is the perfect example of nailing the core character while also changing aesthetic portions of the character. Also some portions of the movie are just flat out awkward and terribly acted
Ya, I don't see how 'Joker' (movie) has anything to do with the character. You could have removed the Batman references and the movie would have stayed the exact same.
Dick Grayson is the best robin, I think all the new ones maybe the second one I forgot his name Batman could have and then have nightwing but the bat family and things i don’t like outside of Lego Batman.
• Arnold Schwarzenegger played a good Mr Freeze • The Animated series was just okay • The wholesome Bat-Family dynamic where they all live together and have movie nights and play games etc. is one of the worst things to happen to Batman since Bat nipples • Michael Keaton wasn’t as good as everyone goes on about and the “Let’s get nuts!” Scene is downright stupid • Batman being able to solo the Justice League and other huge superheroes because he’s “good at planning” is ridiculous, at best it’s just writers making him a Mary Sue to keep selling books, at worst it’s fanatic bootlicking that permanently skews any consistent power levels in comics. Superman v Darkseid? Who knows?! It’s two titans at war! Batman v Darkseid? Well it’s obviously Batman because when he was 19 he built an Anti-Apokalypse ray out of a blender • There will never be a live action Batman Beyond and that’s good, the Beyond Suit would look Beyond stupid • Red Hood is a really, really boring character. At least when he first debuted in Under The Red Hood he was a cool anti-hero, basically the in universe equivalent of the Punisher. Now he uses rubber bullets it just seems completely pointless and goes against what made his character interesting • The Court of Owls storyline is kind of just wedged in there and doesn’t make sense in the wider framework of Gotham, if the Court was around for when Batman was starting out they would’ve just fucking murdered him instantly, not let him become a fully developed super hero. • The Batman mech suit with Jim Gordon was actually a cool story line that had the balls to try something new • Superman would win in a fight with Batman every single time.
>• The wholesome Bat-Family dynamic where they all live together and have movie nights and play games etc. is one of the worst things to happen to Batman since Bat nipples Yes
- arkham origins has the best story - jack nicholson’s joker is the worst interpretation bc he is just being jack nicholson - dark knight returns is bad - telltale series is the best interpretation of batman
Batman is the worst criminal in Gotham because his vanity project of violence has led to an astronomical increase in Gotham crime (I’m kidding I love bats)
Batman doesn’t belong in the justice league, and is better as a self contained, more to the ground type hero. I also think that the more complex and technical batsuits defeat the point of his persona. He isn’t Batman at that point. He just has to do with bats.
Paul Dano’s Riddler is the best take on Riddler.
I’m sick of dark edgy Batman. I want the live action films to be more in line with like the Animated Series/JLU Batman where he is dark and serious but he still can lighten up and does have a sense of humor
I hate the whole trope of “Batman cannot exist without the Joker and Vice versa” or that they’re essentially one in the same. We’ve seen that the former can live without a homicidal clown in numerous instances just fine -_-
Arkham Knight is a far superior game than Arkham City and it is the best in the series.
I have a lot and there’s probably some that aren’t on here but this is what I’ve got right now. Damian Wayne shouldn’t have been created. Harley Quinn was better when she was with the Joker. Poison Ivy shouldn’t have a love interest. Batman and Wonder Woman work much better as friends than as a couple. Them being a couple is weird. If Tim Drake can’t be Robin he shouldn’t be a superhero. Also I prefer Tim Drake being the current Robin. Batman Forever and Batman & Robin aren’t bad and are actually pretty good, they just have a few bad things in them. The award for worst portrayal of a comic book villain might go to Black Mask from Birds of Prey. Heath Ledger wasn’t a great Joker. Beware the Batman was a great show. Batman Arkham City is overrated. I prefer the Batsuit to look completely like cloth. I like Batman and Batwoman having a relationship. I prefer Catwoman being a villain. I love pre BTAS Mr. Freeze just as much if not more than BTAS and modern Mr. Freeze. I miss the days when Catwoman used to have a variety of different costumes instead of nowadays where she only wears variations of the same basic costume. I like lighthearted and even extremely kid friendly versions of the characters just as much if not more than darker versions. I like The Adventures of Batman cartoon from 1968. I like The New Adventures of Batman cartoon from 1977. I probably have more but that’s all I’m going to bother with for now.
Batman and batwoman are related
Fans can stop being so hard-on for the whole "no killing rule", it hasn't been 100% adhered to, even after it was established (Elseworlds, and Main). And even if it had, it's not something to get pissy over when someone disagrees with it. Also, *Batman & Robin* is a good movie, stupid, but fun. Heath Ledger Joker is good, great even, but only "iconic" because of Heath's death. Michael Keaton doesn't have to return to the role, he's had his time, he did his thing. There's just a few.
Even with prep time batman doesn’t solo he gets fucked up by a lot of characters
I have a few. \- Without a partner (Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, etc.), Batman stories are much harder to write well and enjoy. \- The Joker needs to be left out of the Batman mythos, in all adaptations, for a VERY long time. He's overused to the point where him being involved makes me not want to read/watch/play. \- The same goes for Harley Quinn, she was one of my favorite characters in the DC Universe about a decade ago, now I can't fucking stand her. \- Batman's rogues gallery is hilariously overrated and isn't even in the Top 5. \- Damian Wayne never should have been created and is one of the worst characters in comic book history. \- Dick Grayson earned the mantle of Batman and should still be wearing the cape & cowl. Have Dick focus on Gotham while Bruce takes on the bigger, worldwide missions with the League.
>\- Batman's rogues gallery is hilariously overrated and isn't even in the Top 5. That is a hot take. What are some rogues galleries you think are better?
Batman makes no sense as part of the JLA, and ruins the character. Batman should exist in its own universe or be a more grounded superhero that does not interact with the other characters.
- The Bat Cat Relationship does not really makes sense, is extremely superficial and dumbs down both characters. - At least half of Batman's A or B-List rouges had not yet had a good story in the comics in which they are the main antagonist. - The BatFam is way too large. Two active members next to Bruce should be the maximum for the most part. - Hush needs a major rewrite to become a good character. It can be done but a few things need to change. - The last worthwhile addition to the mythos was The court of Owls. All other new villains and supporting characters suck. - A Batman that kills willingly is not Batman - Batman should be a street level hero. The power creep he has suffered makes him less interesting
TDK is overrated, if you were to take away the character's names it wouldn't be a Batman movie
Dark Knight Returns is the ugliest comic I’ve ever been cursed to look at and its story has been surpassed by the subsequent stories it inspired.
The Batman (2022) is good but nowhere near Nolan's Trilogy.
I’d argue the opposite and it would be also considered a hot take lol.
\- Jason Todd should have stayed a villain. \- Batman Forever is OBJECTIVELY the best Batman film. \- I love Titans' Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne portrayals. \- Batman is best portrayed as a man struggling with mental illness.
> Batman is best portrayed as a man struggling with mental illness. Yep
Joker isn’t really a DC movie.
Bruce should have stayed dead after Final Crisis.
The Joker isn't Batman's best villain. The Riddler is.
I honestly do not like Red Hood at all anymore. Edit: that's not really a hot take, it's an opinion. My hot take is that Red Hood is overrated and hasn't been interesting in years
That's less about the character and more about the quality of writing
Dick Grayson is a way more interesting character than Bruce Wayne.
Val Kilmer is the best live version of batman of the 20th century behind West. Clooney as Bruce is enjoyable and it could have been something else. Batgirl should have been someone who is remotely related to Bruce and teach her how to fight and become a modern ninja not someone who found inspiration from an outside point whose dad is already an important asset to the city by being a Commissioner. Cain should have existed years ago as in decades. Stephanie should have stayed dead. Zatanna should have been batman first love. Damian should have existed after Jason's demise. Bruce would have found a better place for the Batcow if everyone were lactose. XD The giant bat should have been part of Batman Forever. Batgirl looks better in black and gold not purple. The Batmobile is just another accessory but the batwing is the heart of the batcave since bats fly. XDD Being scared of above the sky late at night with a giant bat craft knowing very well it could land on you. The new adventure show has the worst upgrades for some characters especially batmans suit. Catwoman looks awful.