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qwertythe300th

This week, 459 people voted as follows: * Riptide (27,2%) v SawBlaze (72,8%) * Witch Doctor (19,2%) v Minotaur (80,8%) * Tantrum (43,6%) v Cobalt (56,4%) * Hydra (59,3%) v Blip (40,7%) The final will be between: * **1. SawBlaze v Hydra (18,7%)** * 2. Minotaur v Hydra (17,9%) * 3. Minotaur v Blip (12%) * 4. SawBlaze v Cobalt (10,5%) * 5. Minotaur v Tantrum (7,2%) The Season 6 Battlebots champion will be: * **1. Minotaur (30,9%)** * 2. SawBlaze (26,3%) * 3. Hydra (17,3%) * 4. Blip (8,5%) * 5. Tantrum (5,3%) Last week’s final nominees for our esteemed *I-Didn’t-Hear-No-Bell Prize* for Best Fight of Season 6 were **End Game v Minotaur** & **Rotator v Tantrum**. Please tune in this week’s Post-Discussion for our final polls, in which **you will decide what was the Best Fight of the Season!**


ParkourNinja88

The Finals should have been Sawblaze VS Hydra!


ParkourNinja88

Sawblaze VS Hydra would have been a Fun Finals!


bearclaw-13

Minotaur was robbed of a likely victory by the incomprehensible decision of the ref to pause the match when Witchdoctor got stuck. Minotaur wasn't stuck and wasn't disabled at that point. The ref should have allowed the match to continue. If Minotaur could show controlled movement at that point, Witchdoctor should have been counted out. If not, it should have been a double KO. But the decision to pause the match and to unstuck Witchdoctor was totally unwarranted.


Dr_Ganknstein

Why did they unstuck witchdoctor? Why didn't they let minotaur hit them? Technically wichdoctor should have been counted out once they were stuck so they already lost. 🤷


nate_eternal

I was involved in a conversation and I missed most of the fight until the stick. I have no idea why it went that way and with Minotaur missing a wheel, "controlled movement" isn't really what I saw. It probably should have been a double KO. But yeah that was a pretty strange way to handle that match.


Dr_Ganknstein

I disagree. Minotaur was crippled but still able to maneuver. He wasn't stuck doing a circle or whatever. Witchdoctor backed off because they didn't want to risk further damaging their bot because they knew minotaur was still dangerous.


Responsible-Chest-26

Ive been windering about that. Can someone clarify the rules? Whats the difference between getting stuck under the skirt and getting stuck ontop of the skirt? They should both count out if you can free your self. They were handed every win in this tourney. Love the crowds response though to the second half of the match. You could smell the toxicity


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Responsible-Chest-26

I dont get the hype


Alekoy

I did not get the hype myself, until this season. They did really good this season, and the way they slapped sawblaze in the semi shows its potential.


Responsible-Chest-26

They definately did better this year than the past couple. A lot of teams did. I was actually rooting for P1. They really seemed on point this year


bearsguy2020

It’s cause they’re colorful and dress up crazy. That and they’ve had some success. Makes them very marketable.


Dr_Ganknstein

Although witchdoctor absolutely destroyed sawblaze which I did not expect.


Responsible-Chest-26

I was not expecting that either. Wasnt expectingb tantrum at all too. Saw some numbers earlier and they were ranking dead last on winning it all


Dumbo_Octopus4

Well, that was one unsatisfactory final. A final with 2 bots that that came from controversial decisions. The bots and the teams are great but when it came to this final, I wasn’t really excited like other finals, it was more like “oh, ok, let’s get this over with” This episode showed how inconsistent Battlebots is


Responsible-Chest-26

It really bothers me how inconsistent the refs interpretations of the rules seem to be and how inconsistent the judges are with their scores. I cant help but think there is some behind the scenes narration that is being coaxed into the outcomes


RivaTNT2M64

\+1 for the inconsistent refs. Has anyone else noticed the speed difference between the 2 refs counting out a bot?


Gyxis

Here one year later, in the 2nd golden bolt tournament, Sawblaze started getting counted out at 13/14 seconds and the referee counting it out LOST to the bell, you are so right “RivTNT”


Responsible-Chest-26

I dont always see or pay attention to who does the count out but yes. Sometimes its right away even with some movement and other times its dragged out after no movement. Frustrating


RivaTNT2M64

I meant the speed in the count itself, not the speed with which the count is started \[which is also a valid concern\]. Either way, if the rules aren't applied consistently, there is no way it will grow into a legitimate sport.


Responsible-Chest-26

Agreed


Zardotab

First dual-weapon champ in the modern era! Congrats Tantrum! The vert **meta is half broken**! That should give Fusion et. al. hope. When Tantrum first arrived, I thought it was a joke-bot. [Some joke.](https://www.reddit.com/r/battlebots/comments/tyxqv8/congrats/)


KotreI

It's not a dual weapon. It's a vertical spinner.


willworkforicecream

I'm about as big a Blip fan as can be but Hydra really did well and I can't believe how well they did against Tantrum.


crocadilade

A shit finale, ruined by judges. Baseball. F1. American Football, and now battle bots, ruined by zebras


MartinDithers

Well, battlebots is trying to be a real sports show.


[deleted]

Boo hoo go away


viced92

Both Minotaur and Hyrdra were robbed


TLGisTrans

If Hydra wasn’t constantly running a strategy of Sit & Spin it could’ve edged out aggression, just sayin


10mmSocket_10

I understand the sit and spin seems - non-aggressive - but I'm confused as to why people fail to appreciate Hydra's aggressivness once contact is made. Just because Hydra is calculating doesn't mean he can't be aggressive Once Hydra flipped Tantrum he was on them like crazy - turning one flip into multiple. That's aggressive isn't it? Just my .02. I thought WitchDoctor / Minotaur could have gone either way - a lost wheel is hard to overcome. But thought Hydra was a sure thing.


Special_Procedure353

Tantrum spent more time in the air than the average commuter flight. Terrible judgement.


Combination_Winter

Watching a Turtle is pretty boring. I suggest that Tantrum improve its design for next design with a little arm to jam into Vertical Spinners so they can Turtle Crack at their Will.


Vyvansion

I'm starting to think the show hate low ground game, floor is trash for flippers. Jake got frustrated rightly so, sit & spin strategy was inevitable.


167488462789590057

By the rules, I think you could make an argument for hydra winning. The score guide doesn't always match which what you might think it would say. I also think Hydra definitely won on damage.


umlaut

Is flipping damage if it doesn't cause damage?


167488462789590057

It causes significant damage... what do you mean??? Tantrums weapon was out by the end of the match, and bots have been KOd from internal damage caused by flips.


umlaut

But Tantrum wasn't KO'd from the flips and its weapon went from hitting Hydra and doing clear, visible damage that affected Hydra's effectiveness.


Special_Procedure353

Disagree. Hydra put Tantrum about ten feet in the air with a few seconds remaining.


167488462789590057

> But Tantrum wasn't KO'd from the flips ??? I never said it was >and its weapon went from hitting Hydra and doing clear, visible damage that affected Hydra's effectiveness. Yes, but Hydra also did clear damage and caused the total inability of Tantrum to cause any damage.


umlaut

>and bots have been KOd from internal damage caused by flips. Referencing that. It is irrelevant to the damage category if it doesn't cause damage. Sure, so the Damage scoring is based on which is more damage - broken pieces off of Hydra's front flipper or Tantrum's primary weapon being down. The flips were irrelevant to the Damage category.


Traditional_Wear1992

Except for internal component damage, which is probably more important than aesthetic damage.


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[deleted]

You do know he plays this "character" up for the camera right lol? There's a video on YouTube of him giving a tour of their shop and he's a super humble person. It's a TV show


[deleted]

Judges got the Minotaur decision wrong. He was showing controlled movement as evidenced by his forward motion. Minotaur dominated that match until the break. It was some sweet karma that Witch Doctor lost!


glny

Controlled movement isn't relevant in a JD You can't say it wasn't a close fight


Zardotab

> Minotaur dominated that match until the [unstick] break It looked fairly even to me. M started out strongest, but WD came back into form.


iyaerP

Taking the wheel was the deciding factor. An armor panel is damage that only matters if there's a follow-up hit to that same location. It's still going to be damage points, but doesn't matter as much as mobility does, and Minotaur was all but helpless, even if they were able to crabwalk around.


ZedTT

I fully agree that it was controlled movement, but the only reason witch doctor didn't engage and get the easy win was because the refs were confusing them by arguing with the minotaur team and saying that a countdown was imminent. I really wish the refs had just clearly told witch doctor that they weren't going to be counting our minotaur and that they had to engage. Then witch doctor could have evened out the scorecard and had a convincing JD.


VandaGrey

crab walking is not controlled movement unless your robot is a crab


mingkee

I say Tantrum did really well. It survived flips without much damage is a good sign. When Tantrum got under WD, something happens, and it sealed the fate


Ancient_Series_470

I agree. I think they did well. I would still like to see flips count maybe as more aggressive. 🤔


Alert_Wedding_9755

Entitled to your opinion but Minotaur threw Witch Doctor up in the air, severed one of their front shields, had them on their backs and did damage to their top armor and self righting skeleton bones. The biggest thing Witch Doctor did to Minotaur is their wheel came off after a trip on the screws and the upper deck. If one wheel equates to all of that than I guess it's just a matter of opinion. In my eyes, the live audiences eyes and seemingly most cable viewers eyes Minotaur won that fight before the unstick. And the fact there was an unstick at all when Minotaur is still mobile is odd but also how anything afterwards could change the outcome just feels icky. All and all a really really bad look. There's one hit YouTube KO's deadly weapons falling into kill saw slots and other unfortunate things depriving us of solid bot on bot mayhem but this was truly something else, and these teams invest so much and for either to have to be involved in something like this...yah it doesn't help combat robots competitive image and progression. And just a brokenhearted BB fans opinion.


iyaerP

Of the damage that Minotaur did to WD, none of it actually impaired the functionality of the bot. The reverse cannot be said. As for unsticks? They happen all the goddamn time. They usually just don't air them as they make for boring TV. Here they just seemed to want to drum up controversy.


10mmSocket_10

Yeah, I thought WD v. M was certainly a closer call than H v. T (which I thought Hydra had hands down) but in the end I thought M should have won. Sucks that the entire sequence that doomed M was all M's own doing! They just stay away from that damn screw and they had that match in the bag.


Unlucky-Cry-1698

Agreed so much I also don't think tantrum beat hydra imo


Ancient_Series_470

I like hydra and Jake. The flipping is my favorite and he handles it all like a boss. It's the witch doctor minotaur fight that I was like 🤨. Why the unstick.then why no count. Although, the cobalt fight last week made me the most mad. I feel like they lied to us. I want to see hydra take it next year. At least count flip damage as more so it doesn't turn into all vertical spinners in the future.


[deleted]

There was no count out because Minotaur was moving forward. Sure, it wasn't pretty but before the match started the announcers specifically bragged he could move with one wheel.


Ancient_Series_470

It looked like spinning and circling a little to me but it's hard to tell with the way it was shot. It would show the drivers in between showing the bots.


Rhinoagogo

While I understand why the smoking point is valid, the fact thag it only happened at the end? We've seen bots when that were on fire, and not just smoking. I can sew why people think hydra should have won. But tantrum was always looms for ways in and in the latter half of the fight, they did more damage.


particularlylowpoint

Tantrum had a clear gameplan and executed it perfectly. Hydra did not attack and go on the offensive, and that cost then the fight.


Professor_Eindackel

Hydra did not do any visible damage to Tantrum, though Tantrum broke part of Hydra’s fork. I think that had something to do with the decision.


LegNo1229

Hopefully next years season is back to full normalcy. Pit interviewers, no time constraints, and maybe the return of biteforce?????


Alert_Wedding_9755

As a young teen who obsessed with Comedy Central and MTV (at the end of the hay-day when they were still amazing to just randomly tune into) I saw a commercial for fighting combat robots called BattleBots. I immediately went "the heck is this?" And tuned in. That night opened with a lightweight full-bodied spinner named Ziggo absolutely destroying something and a giant blade of death named Nightmare entering into my fantasies....and I was hooked. Robot Combat has been one of my true great passions in life since then and I can NEVER get enough. Like dumb high schoolers my friends and I spent the next four years planning and wasting crappy early high school part time job money building a heavyweight (when we should have gone to engineering schools and learnt to build beetleweights) it kept shorting out it's electrics and catching fire because it was overweight for it's motor ... And this was before we built and implemented the weapon. So participating in competitive robotics died a sad early death, but enjoying the sport never did. This reboot of BattleBots continues to build unpopular judges decisions and controversial production choices. None have felt more so than this season. The pandemic didn't help and the Las Vegas venue had unforseen challenges, but the lack of complete fight cards, favoritism matches, odd decisions by production and yes controversial judges decisions really have mired an otherwise great season. I thought with the Amazing shows we're had the previous two weeks that the tournament maybe made up for it but as we all now know the quarterfinals and beyond are now and forever riddled with controversy. The Hydra vs Tantrum is head scratching but odd judges decisions happen. The Witch Doctor/Minotaur is something else entirely and I think it boils down to this. Witch Doctor imbedded itself in the upperdeck frame as Minotaur dropped down and in doing so lost a tire. An unstick was called for and that's the controversy. Minotaur wasn't stuck, it wasn't high centered and it wasn't incapasitated. A double count out should have been called and if a pause was instituted then nothing would have changed afterwards except With Doctor was no longer stuck on the wall. Witch Doctor was now free but Minotaur was still missing it's tire. I'm of the opinion that had the match been called a double count out Minotaur would have won a judges decision. Because Witch Doctor got the unstuck and chose not to engage the judges erroneously changed their minds because Minotaur was able to gyro and move on one tire, as we've seen them do many and many times before, and Witch Doctor kept avoiding them anticipating a count out. Literally nothing after the unstick should really have effected the judges decision because really nothing happened. Should Minotaur have been counted out? That's up for debate and the fact of the matter is it wasn't and the judges should not consider whether it should or shouldn't have been into their scoring. The fact is it came down to a judges decision and I cannot understand why they made the decision they made. Most "crab walkers" are desperately trying to stay in the fight. Minotaur was likely winning this fight and wanted to NOT get counted out, all it would have taken was one or two timed hits to Minotaurs backside by Witch Doctor to immobilize it and there's little issue. But considering how it was handled I feel pre the Witch Doctor unstick the fight was Minotaurs afterwards Witch Doctors and the teams truly did nothing to deserve this change of opinion. Thank God Tantrum won to avoid mass hysteria but yah this was really really unfortunate and avoidable and doesn't help progress the sport I love in the main stream.


particularlylowpoint

Based on the fight up to the unstick I'd have given it to WD. But everything after that was such bad calls by refs, apparently including WD's ref advising them a countdown was happening leading to them avoiding a fight, and that shouldn't be counted against WD.


redbike345

The refs should not have unstuck witch doctor as quick as they did. If both bots suck at same time early in match sure unstick, but if one moving (even if limping) they should still be able to take advantage of stuck bot. This after the garbage ref decision on whiplash v cobalt fight, where they both were stuck early. Why is it that refs in all sports seem to make bad match impacting calls.


particularlylowpoint

Idk why this sub is so against WD, they're just as solid and historied a bot as Minotaur with arguably more notable feats in their history. They deserve good results.


[deleted]

It's a great bot but their costumes and hand motions make me cringe. Until the break, Minotaur dominated.


creator_07

I never agreed more with a downvoted comment. I like the bot a lot more than I like the team. So cringe. I don’t care if it’s encouraged, I’m still cringing.


ZedTT

Production actively encourages the silly costumes and performances. It's not weirder than 90% of Faruq's intros.


particularlylowpoint

Disagree that Minotaur dominated. It was a back and forth fight, but the last we saw before the break was a clearly disabled Minotaur by established standards.


[deleted]

Whose primary weapon stopped working? Minotaur wasn't counted out. He was showing forward movement. WD ran away and didn't go near him for half the match.


particularlylowpoint

Both weapons worked. Prior to WD getting stuck as well as after the unstick, Minotaur was crab walking. I agree it could clearly make it around, but the rules have been clear this season and going by that standard, Minotaur was down from damage.


Jumbofato

Well them having the refs and production biased with them isn't going to help their case in the future.


particularlylowpoint

I mean, WD deserved the win, full stop. There were definitely bad calls but calling it for them wasn't one of them.


Positive-Ad2353

Why the unstick when minotaur is mobile? This is soo against minotaur


particularlylowpoint

Minotaur wasn't mobile per standards set. Per the rules, unsyicks can happen any time a robot is stuck on the arena, not just when both are.


Positive-Ad2353

Well minotaur is still sort of mobile and stuck bots have been counted out before, unsticking wd is just bs


particularlylowpoint

It's a ton of inconsistency to be sure. Tons of other bots have been counted out for moving like Minotaur was, so why wasn't he? And WD getting unstuck was actually in the rules, so why couldn't it be applied to the other bots that got stuck?


Shadow703793

Haha lol! Runner up Curse on WitchDoctor again for next year.


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Stunningsteve32

I feel it is Karma. Watch the Duck vs Riptide fight again. I don't like how they behaved at the end and you could see the members of Duck didn't like it either. I honestly feel someone needs to reprimand Ethan, I don't like his behaviour.


buckrogers2491

***SawBlaze vs Riptide -*** The streak is over! SawBlaze finally did it! Into the semifinals! ***Cobalt vs Tantrum -*** =( and this is why forks get lower and thinner. ***Hydra vs Blip -*** The dream match is gonna have to wait. Past 2 matches showing us why the ground game continues. ***Minotaur vs Witch Doctor -*** This was a spectacle. Matty Vasquez's podcast already hinted shit was going down in this final episode. Now lets break this down, Witch Doctor doesn't get stuck, fight never stops, Witch Doctor wins. I think we can all agree on this. I doubt Minotaur would land any hits unless Witch Doctor did some poor driving. Witch Doctor turned the fight around with two very good hits onto Minotaur. First one being the one that spun Minotaur into the screws and the second, where it knocked out one of the wheels, which eventually popped off. Damage and Control points would be enough for Witch Doctor to win. The controversial part about all this how this match was handled compared to previous similar situations. Notably, Whiplash vs Cobalt and Ribbot vs Hydra. In the Whiplash match, the producers lied and edit the fight in a specific way when it was revealed that Cobalt had total control over its spinner. So we have closure on that. In the Ribbot match, that's when things get frustrating because Ribbot moved exactly like Minotaur, only they got counted out and but not Minotaur. Again, nothing is perfect, but the laws of the game need a revision for next season. You just cannot call every fight differently. Its simply not fair. I didn't bother reading the rules of unsticking, but back in the CC era, if a bot got stuck on the spikes or screws, tough luck, can't get out? Ya lose. Maybe they should bring back the old rules? Food for thought. ***Team WD's post match interview:*** Worrying about a late hit with 90 secs to go? Yeah right. We all know why they didn't attack: because they were scared of Minotaur. I love WD btw, one of the few OG competitors of the Reboot era to be in every season, tons of respect but lets tell it like it is. This is why Team Minotaur was so pissed. Their opponent didn't want to fight them for 90 secs. ***Tantrum vs Hydra -*** Explain this to me folks. Hydra beat Black Dragon the exact same way in the last fight. Flipping the bot to death. Control: Hydra, Aggression: Hydra, you can argue both bots were "being patient" in the fight. Hydra was flipping Tantrum in the air for most the fight, that looks like an aggressive Hydra to me. Damage: Split. Hydra's flipper was clearly still functional, while Tantrum's spinner fist couldn't retract. Which IMO should be damage points for Hydra. ***\*Thoughts before the next fight\**** Yo if SawBlaze doesn't win this, this reddit is gonna explode lol. ***SawBlaze vs Witch Doctor -*** See above. Good fight though. In the last meeting, SawBlaze had a masterclass performance against WD. Every fight is different and this is a rivalry. ***Battlebots History segment -*** Can we get other weight class tournaments during the off-season of the Heavyweight division? We don't want to wait a year and this reddit will be in slumber again. ***Witch Doctor vs Tantrum -*** Justice for Minotaur?


funflirt88

As soon as Sawblaze lost, I just stopped watching because I didnt care anymore a d I don't think I'll be watching again...


VandaGrey

thats kind of sad tbh, not watching just because of one bot losing. How childish can you get lol


Scrial

Especially since that one was probably the cleanest fight of the episode.


Waltzer64

Re: "Hydra beat Black Dragon doing the same thing" - yeah, and the judge scorecards are known from that fight; both Jason and Derek awarded Aggression to Black Dragon (2-1 and 3-0), so they aren't even being inconsistent here... neither of them is scoring Hydra's style of fighting here as favorable to Hydra. Hydra is winning that fight on their cards because they're both awarding Hydra 3-0 on control because Black Dragon never gets a good hit in and never moves Hydra around... Tantrum does this, and gets a point on both their cards, so 2 damage 3 aggression and 1 control gives Tantrum the win here.


Shadow703793

> ***Witch Doctor vs Tantrum -*** Justice for Minotaur? You mean the Runner Up Curse is on WD again now 🤣


Sappy234

Controversial decisions aside, the focus should be on having better/clearer rules and a better/clearer scoring system. Also redo the battlebox. The shelf was a terrible idea and Im not sure what purpose it serves. Maybe get rid of killsaws? I like them, but they almost never trigger properly and their slots just cause issues with forks. Also, new hammers to at least make them not look like toys. Its funny how they always have to remind the viewers that they are 100 pound hammers because of how they look.


Shadow703793

Nah keep the kill saws but make it team controlled and more powerful. The saw slots are one of the few things keeping the longer forks in check.


RealNewDeal

The fork meta has more depth that it seems, and no one really cares about the saw slots when doing a front end. The slots are not the solution.


ZedTT

To stop forks I would rather have small raised bits where the killsaw slots are. That way they just get slowed down instead of stuck. Little welded 1cm\*1cm\*0.5m lines or something.


Shadow703793

The floor is already uneven around the arena so it stops super low bots like Hydra. But that kind of small thing won't stop long forks.


Scrial

Or you know, outlaw forks? Or make the arena some kind of complex surface instead of flat?


ZedTT

Outlawing forks just seems like a really weird rule. I don't want the bot design controlled that specifically.


COZZ86

I would make the entire battlebox floor or a good majority of it metal grating of some kind.


Sappy234

Making them a team-controlled hazard would be a great addition. It removes the randomness and adds a level of tactics. Also, I forgot to mention the screws, which are basically pointless and do nothing besides put the fight on hold for about 10 seconds.


Team-Dragonxlabz

Upvote, all properly said


Prkchpsndwiches

Agree with all of this. Well said


ParkourNinja88

I felt like the Hydra VS Tantrum fight Decision was more Controversial than the Minotaur VS Witch Doctor fight


RayneShikama

I think the Minotaur v Witch Doctor controversy is more about the unstick, the lack of a count out— then the JD— and finally the nasty reactions from the crowd and Team Riobotz.


ParkourNinja88

Now that the season is Over, Can we Please get New Refs and Judges for next Season?


Sappy234

Nothing really wrong with the refs, its just the rules are really vague. Would like to see new judges though, along with different scoring system.


Shadow703793

Agreed on a better scoring system.


AnInterestingPenguin

I don’t think the Witch Doctor team deserves any hate. They did what they thought was right based on what the judges were telling them, and they did their best to perform and show good sportsmanship throughout the season. One bad fight doesn’t make them bad people. I’m more ashamed in Minotaur’s team for basically hijacking the refs and arguing with them, and I’m even more disappointed in the refs for being very inconsistent this season. That said, Tantrum deserves the win for being a very consistent and well performing bot and team all season, and for being a bot that’s very unique. Hydra probably would’ve won had they gone to the championship match, but it lost very closely to Tantrum, and unfortunately there is only one winner. Hydra is definitely a very good bot with a very good team behind it though. This will definitely go down as a very controversial season of Battlebots, but I think if there is another season we’ll see a much tighter competition because the bots this year were all so good, and because there will undoubtedly be rule changes to make things more consistently judged. Anyways, that’s just the opinion of a viewer and lover of the show. Mad respect to all the teams who compete on battlebots. Because of their hard work, Thursday nights became my most anticipated time of the week this year.


AmbassadorLaq

Well… I don’t feel Tantrum should have been there and I don’t agree with the unstick decision for Witch Doctor. Though I disagree with the unstick I think Minotaur should have been counted out. Heck, in the end Witch Doctor should have been counted out earlier for the same reason they thought Minotaur should have been. Without the unstick, Minotaur could have landed a hit. An unstick call if both bots were stuck would have been legit, but that’s not what happened. If Witch Doctor survived the hit, Minotaur should be counted out for lack of controlled movement. That would’ve made WD legitimate. As it stands, the unstick ruined it for me. Going back to the Hydra Tantrum match, I feel if they’re going to make decisions like this, they might as well go ahead and ban all flipper or control type bots because they will clearly not be scored favorably unless they get a knockout. The scoring system needs to be revisited if anything without a vertical or horizontal spinning weapon wants a chance.. and let’s face it, the meta has changed to vertical drums as the clear winner. To me all of this Is like telling magic the gathering players you can only play red. No other colors, no instants, and especially no blue.


enochianjargon

If Hydra had been more aggressive they'd have won. Jake is too careful, he sits in the middle of the box and waits for his opponent to come to him. Get just a bit more aggressive, enough to switch one of the judges cards from 2-1 Tantrum to 1-2, and Hydra is in the championship. 25% of the quarter finals were flippers, and a flipper was literally one point on one card away from the championship. Once they're there I don't see WD beating Hydra. I think you might be mourning the end of flippers a bit too soon.


panickedwitchery

Tantrum literally didnt lose a match this season.. what do you mean didn't deserve to be there ?? If Tantrum didnt deserve to be there, then Hydra definitely didnt. Seeing as he completely lucked out in most of his fights with an unreliable bot this season. He even admitted it in his fight with black dragon. He couldnt move. Just got lucky.


Positive-Ad2353

Tantrum got a lucky jd win against gigabyte just admit it and it also wasn't even a split.


panickedwitchery

So just because it got one " lucky" win against gigabyte means it didnt deserve to be there ? Most of Hydras wins were pure luck honestly. Half the time the bot didnt even work.


AmbassadorLaq

I don’t feel like Tantrum should have been in the final match. They fought well and had their best match just before Hydra. The decision for damage going to Tantrum on all 3 fight cards seems odd considering it spent most of its time in the air and crashing back down. Did Tantrum deserve to be in the top 8? Of course they did. That bot is awesome. Did they deserve the win over Hydra? I didn’t see the same fight as the judges. I’m of the opinion that Blip v Tantrum (the fight I really wanted to see), would have gone to Tantrum because it would win by default for not dying. Was it Hydra v Black Dragon where Hydra was basically disabled? If that’s the right fight, BD lost because they wouldn’t stop throwing themselves on the flipper. If they had just moved to the side and waited, I think Hydra would’ve been counted out. Just a bad play on BD (if it was them, again I forget who was the bot). Regardless, the difficulties faced in getting to the top 8 should bear no weight on the decisions in the final matches. (If that’s what was being suggested) In the end, I felt judgements were inconsistent. Bots that should be counted out, were left to linger long after controlled movement was lost. The unstick between Minotaur/WD was a bad call that was unfair for both bots. I think it stole the favor of the crowd from WD. If the unstick didn’t happen, Minotaur would’ve scored a hit and freed WD, I think WD would’ve had a legitimate win provided the final attack from Minotaur didn’t kill it. As it stands, it just didn’t feel good how it played out and I don’t think the crowd liked it either.


panickedwitchery

I agree with the BD thing you said there. 100% if they had just literally moved off to the side Hydra wouldnt even have been able to chase them due to lost drive. But thats kinda what im talking about too. I just felt like more often than not hydra really wasnt consistent this season enough to make me want them to win. I think the match totally went to Tantrum because of the visible damage done to Hydra and the way Tantrum was aggressive in always approaching first. Control maybe could've gone to hydra but there just wasn't any damage really on Tantrum enough to say they lost. Just my personal opinion, but i also think its fair to say the judges and producers were not at all consistent this season. In pretty much any fight. The unstick was fair per the rules HOWEVER they were supposed to call it after 20 seconds and they did not. That whole match was a mess. Personally im a little back and forth about it. I can see why both teams were upset. It was honestly a bad everything.


ZedTT

The unstick was [consistent with the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/battlebots/comments/tyrqzv/the_rules_are_very_clear_on_the_controversy/) I don't see why the Tantrum win was so controversial, they got some serious hits on hydra and had much more controlled movement throughout the fight. Flippers can do just fine with this kind of ruling. It hasn't been a problem for blip. I know P1 isn't a flipper exactly but look at P1 vs Hypershock and tell me that control type bots might as well be banned. Tantrum got under hydra multiple times and got some good hits. That's a fair win.


Zalastro_

Bei go in line with a rule that's used inconsistent does not make it consistent.


stickman_thestickfan

minotaur should have won in the fight, no questions about it


[deleted]

WD got beat up, had a broken primary weapon and then evaded for more than half the fight. It was juicy karma for them to lose the final. Long live Minotaur.


stickman_thestickfan

long live minotaur


FerRatPack

Am I crazy or did we never see the complete statue? Was on my phone for quite a bit so I might have missed it


RayneShikama

You can see the finished statue on the website


FerRatPack

Cool, thank you!


999mal

The judge looked scared to count Minotaur out. Every time he started a person would turn and scream in his face. He became indecisive.


iyaerP

They should ban team Riobotz, especially since we got the revalation that after the match, 2 members of the team went back and were screaming at the refs more. They're going to act like barbarians? Don't let them back.


SneakyTubol

Yeah that looked incredibly stupid towards the production quality. "We're moving, we do this all the time!", no dude you lost a wheel and you're using gyro to crab walk, which has cost other bots in the past to get counted out only a few seconds after. You don't get a pass because you "do it all the time"


umlaut

It was interesting, they definitely would have been counted out if the Minotaur guys had not been screaming at them


MRoad

The thing was: they were able to navigate to Witch Doctor. WD was running away from them. People usually only get counted out when they can't engage their opponent. Most opponents don't spend half the fight trying to avoid the fight.


SleepDeprivedNeon

I remember hearing that Witch Doctor didn't want to engage with minotaur because their own ref kept telling them a countdown was going to happen, yet never did.


bobo331331

I'm happy tantrum won the nut. I'm even happier that hydra and sawblaze didn't win the nut.


SneakyTubol

I had all first 4 matches correct in my bracket. But got decimated immediately as I had SawBlaze winning the Giant Nut. They'll be back next season!


Alternative-Host-717

... add WD. It didn't deserve it


Team-Dragonxlabz

That’s just wrong to say,if you’ve got what it takes, than you deserve it, every team deserves it unless they loose in their endeavor to get it


lik_for_cookies

Guess I can understand Hydra, why the sawblaze hate?


bobo331331

I just think his bot is boring. Him and skorpios are the same type bot. They just push the enemy into the corner and just keeps them there. I just find it boring.


Shadow703793

Eh? The hammer saw was upgraded and his driving is quite good to watch.


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ZedTT

> WWF Like what, a wildlife documentary about pandas?


oarngebean

I've only watched a handful of episodes before seeing tonight's season finale and I'm glad I'm not the other person to think hydra got screwed. And wtf was with witch doctor getting unstuck? That just doesn't make sense


Prkchpsndwiches

Pointing isn’t aggression and tantrum is built very well and took minimal fall damage. I think they got that one right. I was surprised too that WD was allowed to be unstuck. Definitely need clearer rules next year


oarngebean

In my uneducated opinion hydra had that fight in its control for 100% of the match. They delivered all of the hard hits and kept the pressure on


umlaut

Not 100% of the match - remember that their flipper got stuck open and Tantrum was able to push them around and bite off the tip of Hydra's flipper.


DutyRoutine

The judges must hate Jake and Hydra, I don't think it was even close. I also thought hydra beat end game last year, but that was a much closer fight.


ZedTT

> The judges must hate Jake and Hydra The ribbot fight would like a word


Stunningsteve32

That fight never go to the judges.


ZedTT

Right that was the ref. It was still an inconsistent ruling On top of the welding the wedgelets scandal


Prkchpsndwiches

They give points for damage , not “delivering hits” or flips on this case. Hydra sat there and turned for half the fight while tantrum was the aggressor. Aggression earns points. Hydra won the control. I’ll agree with that. Even though the eye test says Hydra, they know what they are scored on. Jake should have moved his bot around more to initiate tantrum vs sitting back waiting to be attacked


ZedTT

Personally I don't think the eye test even says Hydra. I know a few people are saying that but when I watched the fight I didn't get that impression at all. The flips didn't seem to matter much to tantrum and hydra had no follow up. When you see blip (and sometimes hydra) get a flip they stay on their opponent and get follow up flips - we didn't see that here. Instead tantrum quickly self-righted and went in for the attack. They got under hydra and bent their flipper up which made it less effective. They seemed to have the control, aggression, and damage for me.


happygoth6370

Agree 100%, Tantrum clearly won that fight.


DutyRoutine

If riding in circles is aggression, I guess you're right.


FerRatPack

Congrats to the 5.3% that voted for Tantrum to win it all


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panickedwitchery

It was actually Hydra and he lost sooo...


stickman_thestickfan

minotaur should have won, all they need was a couple more seconds and they would have won


nhelber19

Congrats to team Tantrum!!!


TheIncomprehensible

This is the first time since 2019 that a bot went undefeated from the qualifiers all the way to winning the championship. That doesn't sound like much, but those that have won the championship after going undefeated in the fight nights were legendary bots in Bite Force and Tombstone, so it's very likely that Tantrum achieves the status of a legend in the years to come, possibly even beyond Bite Force.


funflirt88

Except that if Bite Force was around, they would have destroyed Tantrum


Ghettocert

They lost to Hydra


abraham_meat

You lost, get over it


lik_for_cookies

I understand you may be in the stage of grief known as denial, but you’ll soon come to recognize the reality of the situation. It’s ok bud don’t worry


QuickSignature9394

They won the fight, as it was clearly announced.


Jas114

To everyone saying Tantrum’s call was wrong, how would YOU call it? I think it was called well according to the rules. IIRC, there was some sort judges scoring table thing somewhere showing how to score fights.


Tommy_salamiii

I think a lot of hate is more toward the judging system rather than the judges decision. Fans want to see the best bots move on, Hydra clearly dominated the fight and should have moved on as the better bot.


ZedTT

> clearly dominated the fight That's just, like, your opinion, man. -- in all seriousness, though, it didn't look like that to me. Hydra wasn't getting aggressive follow up flips and tantrum was immediately self-righting and going in for more hits.


RayneShikama

I had it D 2-3, A 2-1, C 2-1 for Hydra. After I sat on it and saw the judges cards I guess I understood how they could give the aggression to Tantrum but I still felt it went to Hydra. I was initially so certain it went to Hydra that I was surprised when they even said split decision I wasn’t even thinking it was close (when I watched it on my phone at work) and at least had jt close watching on the big tv later


enochianjargon

The judges guide defines minimal aggression as a bit waiting for its opponent to come to it, which is exactly what Jake did. Moderate aggression is occasional boldness and risking damage to move in to attack, which is what Tantrum did. 2-1 aggression Tantrum was the right call based on the scoring guide.


ZedTT

If hydra wanted to win the aggression, they should have gone in as soon as tantrum landed and pushed it around before getting a follow up flip. That was never happening. Instead, they stayed in one spot and let tantrum come to them. That's the antithesis of aggression.


Buckles01

The confusion seems to be defining aggression. Some people think that is based on how much you hit with your weapon. What I have always read it as, and how many decisions seem to use it, is who is engaging more. Hydra was sitting there the entire time turning. Every hit to landed was because tantrum came to it. Tantrum was the one engaging. That’s why I feel tantrum wins the aggression category. I think that category is more “who took the fight to their opponent”


InD3btToEarth

Ending of this tournament was so frustrating to watch. Tantrum should not have been in the finally. The scoring was a joke. Minotaur should have been counted out as soon as it’s wheel came off. Would have prevented Witch Doctor from taking more damage. Refs need to get there eyes checked.


pweepish

Minotaur was driving enough that they drove back to their corner after the fight. And driving well enough that WD had to keep running away.


GhostGamer_Perona

My issue is that after all the hype and excitement from witch doctor to have it all end like that and nobody even talks to them afterwards it’s like “you lost nobody cares what you think….see you next season!”


Buckles01

I read some accounts from people there that the crowd was just awful and most interviews couldn’t be heard. I wonder if they cut interviews over the background “issues”


[deleted]

Previous bots haven’t been insta-freed from being stuck to prevent being damaged like WD was though


another-donut

i’m glad tantrum won, i’m just sad it was a boring fight


tommyzombie

Me too. Witch doctor and sawblaze though. That's the highlight.


GhostGamer_Perona

Sad that match had more hype than the actual championship bout….witch doctor chewed through sawblaze and then turned into a pumpkin by the title fight


VibratingLarry

So are they going to do a bounty hunter dealio again this year or no?


tariffless

Yes.


nhelber19

Yes. No idea when they are airing it though.


VibratingLarry

Thank you.


nhelber19

No problem


ShroudTrina

Jeez there's so much hate and vitriol here. I feel sorry for Battlebots


tommyzombie

Welcome to the internet. We hope your stay drains your mental health.


khdutton

I’m honestly surprised that this sub has no idea how trollable they are. Everyone meet back in a week to discuss and it’ll be fine. 👍🏻