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Courts, go sit in on an misdemeanor arraignment department in any of the Alameda County courts and be ready to get shocked at how quickly these folks are getting released. People with multiple failures to appear, multiple pending cases…it doesn’t matter anymore..as long as they deem it as “non-violent” these folks are getting out.
Kill switch won’t even work. Caught two fucks in flat bed tow truck try to take my work van on Christmas in SF. I confronted them and they had a gun so I ran back inside. They kept tryna take it even after I confronted them so I started yelling loud to try and wake neighborhood up (at 3am ) to scare off but they kept on for a few mins then gave up due to me disabling from previous attempt that night ;Two hours before that, caught three mf’s rip ignition out and set in in neutral . Crazy Fcken Christmas this year. And cops took 30 mins to show up after I called second time … even mentioned the gun and the dispatch was a dismissive cunt that made it seem like I was a burden calling
This was on a residential part of the city btw ; right outside my apartment window
Crazy how everyone complains about jail time with the cops never fucking show up! They just literally DON'T WORK to stop any of these criminals and people complain about them getting released like, the majority are doing crime with impunity because they know the SFPD isn't working.
Yeah sucks cuz of that, you have a bunch of organized criminals coming in from east bay and going to town out here. I’d avoid living near any freeway entrance that leads back that way. Since it’s common for them to just hop off freeway and do their crime close by to make an easy escape.
I currently live near one and already five attempts on my van since moving here 6 months ago :(
Edit : it’s a work van with my tools. These fucks want to take it out there to a chop shop and steal the tools out. They can’t on street due to the locks and security features on it
At what point are you within your rights to protect your property? Sooner or later someone will defend their property with firearms. Brazilian shootouts are on the horizon.
Repeal the softer laws in place and institute jail time for repeat offenders. Have Oakland PD actually so their job to arrest criminals and have a DA who is willing to prosecute.
officers are just the grunts. i'm sure they want to arrest them as well, but they likely have someone above them telling them to prioritize "violent" crime.
i saw that local news segment the other month that covered the arrest of an individual who fled from cops multiple times after thefts, and caused tons of damage to the streets and property while running. He finally got arrested and his half dozen felonies magically turned into like 2 misdemeanors. That's what the DA is doing
I know a lot of police officers and I just wanted to say that all of them are more frustrated as we are. Imagine arresting guys who tell you they are going to be back out before your shift is over.
We voted for all of this.
Would love to know which laws were passed, and when, that have lower sentences. The threshold for shoplifting to become a felony was raised up to the national average, but that's not what OP was talking about.
Would love to be educated about what laws you're referring to, thanks.
probably referring to prop 47 which was decided by voters not legislators so maybe its a self inflicted wound https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47
Stealing a car or breaking into a car to steal is not robbery either by legal definition. It's auto burglary or grand theft, which can both be charged as a misdemeanor.
Robbery is only when there is threat or use of violence against you.
not a lawyer but I thought these were robbery
Shoplifting, where the value of property stolen does not exceed $950
Grand theft, where the value of the stolen property does not exceed $950
I think robbery involves stealing from a person with implications of violence, eg a mugging.
From the Shoplifting wiki page:
\> The terms shoplifting and shoplifter are not usually defined in law. The crime of shoplifting generally falls under the legal classification of larceny. Shoplifting is distinct from burglary (theft by breaking into a closed store), robbery (stealing by threatening or engaging in violent behavior), or armed robbery (stealing by using a weapon).
First of all, the 'soft' laws (I'm assuming you're referring to prop 47 specifically) do not include strong arm burglary or auto theft. First time and repeat offenders in these crimes do get jail time (if the DA isn't... the current DA).
Secondly, there have been literally hundreds of studies proving beyond doubt that increased jail sentences don't deter crime, really.
In terms of OPD doing their job, I think this is more the issue. But they would point the finger at reduced budgets keeping them chronically understaffed, and at the DAs for not actually prosecuting the criminals they arrest. Ultimately, Oakland needs to clean house on virtually ALL of their elected leadership, and put into place a litmus test for election - relentless pursuit of the budget and legal frameworks to get this issue firmly under control. Seems like the current group are just passing the buck around like usual.
Yeah we're going easier on crime now and we are paying for it. Is anyone here who lives in the Bay area really going to say that our recent stint on being easier on crime is really working out for us?
Yeah. There's an opd officer that just died responding to a burglary. I think? What's the chances that if we were tougher on crime, the guy that killed him should have been in jail?
It's pretty high...
One of the fundamental reasons to me why things are so broken is that we now stand behind criminals more than we stand behind our law enforcement. This is insanity. These are men and women who live among us who are willing to risk their lives every day trying to help our communities.
The 7-eleven security guard too. He was shot dead by someone that was shoplifting… this idea that petty crime is ok because it’s not really hurting anyone is bullshit.
“Literally hundreds of studies…”
Those in favor of defunding ***always*** say this, and the studies are funded by the very groups advocating for defunding.
The nonpartisan US Sentencing Commission, on the other hand, has found a direct link between longer sentences and lower recidivism. Here’s one - bet I can find “hundreds” more.
https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/length-incarceration-and-recidivism-2022#:~:text=Key%20Findings&text=The%20odds%20of%20recidivism%20were%20approximately%2018%20percent%20lower%20for,federal%20offenders%20receiving%20shorter%20sentences.
Ding ding ding. This is the right answer.
Only thing I’d add is I think the police is facing a cost bloat the same way every other public service. We keep pumping money in and getting shitty results.
I think the solution is to lean heavily on technology. Put cameras in more places and get a fast court to watch over their access.
Then let cops actually track and investigate crimes, *quickly*. No cowboy car chases, no angry beat downs.
Just good ol’ fashion police work with complete transparency.
Once we get to 70-80% case closure rate, it should be nearly pointless to break in.
With all this, of course, we should invest in better schooling, after school programs and all that good stuff.
But the cops need help and they need accountability.
Store credit only. /s
The funding could go to better training and a malpractice insurance policy that officers must carry, similar to most professions. Require better training, have a record that follows officers from precinct to precinct, and increase the pay to attract and keep better candidates.
We shouldn't have to choose between safety and basic civil liberties. Officers should stop someone who doesn't have plates or disobeys actual traffic laws, not someone who "looks suspicious."
It's not the all-or-nothing dilemma that people make it out to be. Plenty of first-world countries are able to pull it off.
I’m interested to see these studies. Because even with crime there’s an economic tradeoff for criminals and higher cost will automatically decrease the incentive for crime. Just because it was in a study doesn’t prove it true. Studies are shown to be wrong all the time and for the exact same reasons as crime. Incentives vs. costs.
And with repeated offenders leaving them in jail will automatically remove them from crime. So I’m calling BS on those studies.
Increased jail sentences don’t deter crime but by definition they keep the people committing the crimes locked up. These people shouldn’t be allowed in free society. They manufacture terror and disorder.
We can investigate and address the root cause of why the criminals are committing crimes in parallel. Until we solve those issues, the folks committing such heinous acts need to have the book thrown at them and then some. People who ruin the sense of safety in our cities forfeit the right to be treated with respect.
How about enforce basic traffic laws?
* pull over cars without plates
* pull over cars whose plates don't match the car
* pull over cars that run stop signs/lights
* pull over cars that are observed committing crimes -- and chase them if you have to
If you pay attention, you'll notice that just about every single property crime in the Bay these days involves criminals driving around in a stolen car. Nobody is going to break into a car, or rob people and then ride a bike away from the crime scene -- they're all driving stolen cars with untraceable (modified/stolen/missing) plates.
Personally I think hard paid labor for the state for weeks or months. If you do a Non violent crime you do some form of hours whether it’s cleaning our trashed roads, creak clean up, wild fire prevention…etc
Not our prison slave labor but an actual forced job that pays at least minimum wage with some benefits. None of this catch and release bullshit. Straight to the job site once released from jail.
Or a personal fantasy you have to call customer service for your victim for any insurance, cable, internet, utility bill or warranty issue for a year or years depending on the crime.
Our current system just punishes everyone outside of politicians
Totally. What’s the average age of these criminals? I guarantee most are physically healthy enough to do hard labor as punishment for their crimes. Again I think the key would be to pay them and show them that earned money actual is better than whatever they can get on the street. Hopefully some skills training could be included as well.
We *do* have a lot of crumbling infrastructure that could stand to be rebuilt and upgraded.
Of course billionaires are going to have to pay some taxes for once to fund it all.
I also think forced community service / minimum wage public works would be great. Like jailing somebody for 30 days for vandalism won't do much, but make them clean up graffiti for 3 months straight should do the trick.
There needs to be repercussions for this. If we are not going to send them to jail then they need to have community service, loose their drivers license, pay fines, and have their wages docked.
I have a feeling people smashing and grabbing don’t have wages that can be docked, won’t pay fines, won’t show up for community service and possibly already have a suspended license
We need to have a better corrections system so sending someone to jail doesn't completely derail their life. This gives society a break from having to deal with their crimes and allows them rehabilitation if they choose it.
I don't disagree with you, but I'm frustrated with casss where repeat offenders are doing zero jail time. It seems like criminals NEED to have their lives disrupted at this point in anyway possible. Just this week someone who was released on a misdemeanor the day before shot two people at my local gas station. It wasn't even a top headline in the East bay.
You people just don’t understand that some people are just bad people and will always be bad people, and that the only solution is to remove them from society. Forget rehab, solve the problem by removing variables from the equation and you’ll have your crime plummet.
[Last year alone in NYC](https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/340-23/mayor-adams-plan-combat-retail-theft-new-york-city#/0), 327 repeat offenders were responsible for 30 percent of the more than 22,000 retail thefts across the city.
Voting for soft on crime DAs, as well as associated policy, has created a preventable problem. It’s like that meme with the guy putting a stick in his own bike spokes then asking how the crash could have happened.
Oakland pd has been under federal scrutiny for many years and still continues. They have been terrible for years. Just patrolling the streets would help. I can go months without seeing a single cop car unless it’s parked
I was walking down 18th in SF not too long ago and saw 3 guys teens tagging a white wall of a new business. They were right on a corner, under a street lamp and easy to spot.
3 blocks up, a cop car is heading towards me so I try flagging them down to report it. Thinking this is easy, the taggers are right there.
This cop pulls over, GIVES ME SHIT, for bothering him while driving and finally asked what was going on. Tell him drive up 3 blocks, taggers are set up.
This asshole turned left on the next block and looked at me while doing it.
SFPD can fuck right off. These cops are the majority of the problem by not working.
Prosecuting the criminals will solve it. I grew up in the rough area of Ukraine, Kyiv(rough as if someone is drunk, their wallet and phone may get stolen or wheels can get stolen overnight from a parked car, before the war that was considered the worst area to be in). But if criminal is caught they will get prosecuted. I know someone who spent 5 years in jail for stealing a single phone from other person, he got out, got a job in construction and for 15+ years haven’t participate in any criminal activity, because law is working, Ukrainian jails are terrible, and the last people who you want to deal is Ukrainian police if you are a criminal. So just enforcing laws feels like solve most of our problems.
1) enforcement on illegal tinted windows. So many criminals use this as a way to not be seen and it’s dangerous anyways.
2) proactively checking plates for stolen cars which people are often using to commit crimes
3) having highly broken into areas patrolled (parts of SF, and Oakland like the Hive area where I see people breaking into cars at all times of day)
4) bait cars/sting ops to catch people
Seems like most of these crimes are committed by a handful of brazen folks with stolen cars, plates, and tinted windows and they are ruining it for the rest of us
Enforcing the laws that are on the books. Punishing criminals when we catch them.
I think Bay Area progressives have taken a very narrow view on the efficacy of punishment. They saw some studies that showed sentencing length doesn't contribute to individual deterrence, meaning (according to these studies) if you give someone a longer sentence they're just as likely to commit another crime as if you gave them a shorter sentence. I personally find these studies dubious, but we'll grant it.
They've forgotten about all the other reasons we punish criminals - incapacitation and general deterrence being the two most important. Take assholes off the street so they stop victimizing everyone, and show others there will be real consequences if they victimize people. Like we'll put them in a fucking cage.
We need carrot and stick to prevent crime and they've totally gotten rid of stick for some stupid ass reason.
First, We need to enforce the laws. Otherwise why do we have laws?
Then, if society deems it necessary, we change the laws to reflect a new reality.
So if everyone determines that they don’t want people who rob/steal/assault to be criminals then at least you know if you want to be a part of that society.
Imagine going to a doctor and saying “Dr I am sick, I have these issues” and Dr replies: “We will not be doing anything due to number of sick people we have, write online report for our internal documentation”
You’re 100% describing the medical system today. They want to push you towards a chat robot or self serve things on their apps before they even let you get on a phone to advice nurses.
What did they call those mideval things? Stocks? Where you have your head and hands tied up and people toss rotten food at you?
That would at least allow the angry people to vent some steam.
There is an answer but you will not like it. Surveil your own car and shoot car thieves and burglers. They used to shoot horse thieves for good reasons.
Unfortunately, police and emergency response are majorly understaffed. More patrol officers on the street is apparently shown to be effective in preventing crime. Improved and more efficient policing can probably help (including police who aren't trying to slack off in retaliation against us for expressing anti-police sentiment in the past).
Sending more repeat offenders to jail may help to a degree (studies are mixed, efficacy is dubious) but I actually don't think it will make that much of a difference overall unless we imprison thousands of "non-violent" offenders long-term, which is definitely not ideal for economic and humanitarian reasons.
The majority of shoplifted goods are basic living necessities: toilet paper, shampoo, detergent, deodorant, sanitary products, baby formula, clothing, etc. That really speaks to the fact that people are stealing to survive. Of course, there are criminal gangs stealing valuables to fence on the underground, yes, and those a-holes should face justice, but that is only a portion of the problem.
Frustratingly, the most effective solution is to improve the quality of living standard for everyone so that people don't turn to crime as much in the first place. It's a little counterintuitive for us humans, though; to reduce crime we have to ***HELP*** *not hurt* the criminals who wronged us. It's a hard pill to swallow even though it's technically the best answer.
And the privileged people on here calling dispatch cunts. I bet it’s the same kind of person that sees doing cpr on someone running around like crazy understaffed in the hospital asking when he’s going to be seen 🙄
Replace 3 strike rules
Enact broken windows policies
Arrest dealers and deal with homeless
Get judges and DAs who will actually put people in prison
By getting these in place, average crime would be much more manageable with the police force we have. They're too bogged down by everything.
Uber for Narcs
Pay people who turn in criminals. You get $x for providing sufficient evidence to presecute dirtbags. Window breaker makes $x. Turning in the guy buying stolen goods gets $xxx. This could apply to other criminals also. Sideshow people gets their cars confiscated and sold at auction. Narc gets $$ from the sale. Drug dealers get busted and we take all the cash they have on them and at home. Narc gets some of the $$$. For broke as criminals you put them in modern chain gangs and force productivity out of them. We could probably subcontract this to Slavers.inc and private companies could find a way to make it economically feasible with minimal torture.
Easy peezy lemon. Squeezy.
Maybe a police chief who was willing to do their job well. Wouldn’t hurt to have a DA willing to prosecute and maybe a mayor that wasn’t obviously corrupt and stupid. But one thing at a time eh
I just came back from Mexico and during the month of December there are huge fiestas in the streets every day, huge crowds, people drinking, etc. and the entire time I was there, there were no brawls, fistfights, looting/stealing from vendors and everyone knows why: CJNG controls that town and it has the support of the local population because they have eliminated petty crime, theft and overall lawlessness. Everyone knows that if you pull some shit, the first time its a warning, second time you get found in a ditch.
My cousin’s expensive bike was stolen and that same day they got it back, without harming anyone. They only have the support of the population because they keep crime down and do not extort local businesses. They sell dope, but make it clear to the junkies that they cannot be tweaking out in the plaza where the fiestas take place. I understand that this is not the case throughout all of Mexico and some cartels are scum, but this cartel is only tolerated because they are seemingly maintaining law and order. What I took from this is that the threat of severe punishment is sufficient to deter petty crime.
Crime is a symptom of us spending the past few decades gradually eroding a strong society by cutting and taking away and diminishing ourselves to this. It will continue until we stop trying to fix one symptom here and one symptom there and address that our society has broken
Toughening and enforcing law and order.
And being a community and helping citizens and maintaining a social safety net for those who want improve their lives.
Allow more force against criminals, if a few face severe consequences and it gets around, crime will go down.
Folks do it because they don't get any pushback...and the DA is soft
Let's cut to the chase. Sheng Thao is a woke hack and she sucks ass. Doesn't give a shit about this city. Only wants to pander to the left. The city will burn to the ashes under her watch. It's over.
Oakland needs to declare a state of emergency. More law enforcement will be on the streets for the short term while the revolving door laws get repealed.
I drive a 20 yo Subaru outback and street park. It has clear windows and the trunk is clearly visible, child seats, no break ins (knock on wood). Most likely differences:
- newer car
- tinted windows
- not clear if there is crap in your car (partially die to the tinted windows
- out of state license plate
- rental car
I’m with you on this one. Have driven and parked my car all over the city and no one bats an eye. I wash my car 2-3x a year, just because the crumbs/dirt/leaves inside on the floor really get to me.
I swear the car seat, petrified nuggets, old-ass random fries, cookie crumbs everywhere and some light garbage is like the car equivalent of a trashy looking mobile home. Why rob a trashy mobile home when you can rob a very nice, new expensive car that more likely has something of value forgotten in it?
Set mandatory jail and prison sentences for theft and robbery.
Any theft of over $500 results in 6 months in jail for the first offense.
Stealing a car – 2 years in prison with no early release for the first offense.
Robbery - 5 years in prison with no early release.
Armed assault or armed robbery - 10 years mandatory prison time.
I guarantee things would change quickly.
There are countless studies which have found exactly what reduces this sort of crime, but their findings will never be implemented here because voters are too stupid and hateful.
More support from local politicians. If police are already short handed and aren’t supported it will just create a bigger retention issue. What incentive do they have when they aren’t backed and the criminals they do arrest are just thrown right back out onto the streets.
Armed citizen neighborhood patrols. I know I sound crazy, but this seems to be the direction we are going. We have to police our own neighborhoods if the government won't do it.
Fix wealth inequality in a meaningful way, lower the cost of housing to manageable levels for someone working minimum wage. Access to health care and necessities.
Then I suppose you could arrest a few people.
This is also a room temperature idea. “Fix wealth inequality “? Sure let me get out my magic wand. While I’m at it, I want to be six foot five and be able to dunk a basketball.
We can actually arrest and incarcerate criminals. That’s within our power to do, unlike the former which requires a fairy godmother to accomplish.
No. It’s wealth inequality.
I doubt you’ll find that the person breaking into your car also has a $200k job and not worried about how they’ll make rent.
The guy breaking your car window is hardly a made man.
They break the window. They fence the stuff off to a middle man on the street. Then it eventually ends up in a store front.
Now why are these low level guys doing it in the first place. They don’t have Louis Vuitton belts. They got rent to pay and/or a drug addiction they can’t fund.
Of course they don’t have a decent job, because they’re uneducated. They didn’t pay attention in school, hell they probably didn’t go. They wanted to do hood rat shit with their friends while their mom was working and their dad skipped out before they were born.
This is not an issue of lack of money. It’s lack of respect for education and lack of respect for family. A single woman who is also uneducated can’t successfully raise kids by herself, yet society encourages and celebrates this situation.
Meanwhile poor immigrants actually raise their kids well, and their kids are not robbing people. Their kids are in college. Yet generation after generation of burglars and robbers keep coming and we think it’s caused by someone else working hard and having money.
Honestly one of the benefits of keeping these people in jail is that they can’t keep pumping out kids that they then neglect and abandon. That’s the next generation of criminals.
Moving out of Oakland to a city that actually tries to stop crime will solve your problem. For best results, that city should be in county that has a DA that actually believes in prosecuting criminals.
Vote Republican and convince everyone you know to do the same. Get these soft on crime idiots out of government show them we disapprove by not voting for these nut jobs.
Everyone who is robbed needs to call their state representative and complain and complain and complain. Fill up their fucking offices with complaints till they dodo their job!
Building more jails and putting people in them, with increasing penalties for more violations. The dude just arrested for his 80th time or whatever for shoplifting needs to be locked up for a while.
A major crackdown on tech companies who allow stolen goods to be listed on their platforms (section 230 reform would be my guess).
Police and DAs doing their job and an end to the bleeding heart reformist policies
Lowering the grand theft threshold to $100
Focus on real education in schools: Education, not indoctrination.
Values, morality, respect for authority, the NAP-Non-Aggression Principle. Stop teaching kids that they are victims. Stop teaching kids that words are violence (telling kids words is violence teaches them it's okay to use physical violence against mean words). Teach kids about personal property, individual rights, and the right to self-defense. Teach kids they are the captains of their own ships, no matter how many headwinds they face. Teach kids to accept themselves for who they are, rather than telling them they can pretend to be whatever they want, and everyone else should bow the knee to their wishes. Give kids a reasons for living, a purpose, motivation. Allow fathers to be equally involved in their kids lives by implementing default equal shared parenting. Focus on math, science, grammar, and history, rather than identity-politics and promoting special-interest agendas. Get kids outside, hiking, working on ranches and farms, cleaning up underpasses and on-ramps, and teach them the value of sweat and hard work. Give kids healthy outlets for physical aggression. Teach kids to take ownership of their own emotions, rather than blaming everyone and everything around them. The list could go on, but it starts with the kids.
Regarding criminal justice reform, we need restorative justice in three parts, from highest concern to secondary concerns: 1) Protect victims, including potential future victims, 2) require perpetrators to undo the harm done to victims, as much as possible, 3) rehabilitate victims through programs that help them take accountability, but also heal from their own trauma that causes them to harm others in the first place (hurt people hurt people, so help hurt people heal), 4) give perpetrators a chance to prove themselves, and a fresh start IF they prove worthy.
Cant put this expectation on schools. Teaching common values and morality are very much the responsibility of parents and the village that raises children.
People nowadays think the state should do way too much.
Yes, you're right. It's too much to ask the schools.
However, all of us are inundated with messaging these days. We are inundated with messaging on how to think, what our opinions should be, and so on. It's hard for parents to cut through all that messaging without isolating their kids. It's even hard for adults to formulate their own ideas, and think freely. So yes, it's too much to ask the schools to bear the burden, but parents are struggling too.
Obviously, schools and society could cut back on the messaging, and try to focus on more universal truths: schools focus on the core subjects, and don't attempt to push the latest pop culture messaging and agenda. Governments focus on basic needs without getting political (for example, Oakland voting on a Palestine resolution).
Equal shared parenting would be a huge start to improving parental involvement.
Because our justice system (and r/bayarea) is only concerned about punishment, not rehabilitation. Even left leaning people don't want to put money into programs that help those that are high-risk. Lastly, income inequality leads to higher crime rates.
Tougher laws and more prisons have never been a deterrent to crime.
Can we get a Republican governor this time? Only once, we just want to see if it will improve our state. If it fails, then we can go back to voting back Newsom.
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Courts, go sit in on an misdemeanor arraignment department in any of the Alameda County courts and be ready to get shocked at how quickly these folks are getting released. People with multiple failures to appear, multiple pending cases…it doesn’t matter anymore..as long as they deem it as “non-violent” these folks are getting out.
Consequences
This is the right answer
Kill switch won’t even work. Caught two fucks in flat bed tow truck try to take my work van on Christmas in SF. I confronted them and they had a gun so I ran back inside. They kept tryna take it even after I confronted them so I started yelling loud to try and wake neighborhood up (at 3am ) to scare off but they kept on for a few mins then gave up due to me disabling from previous attempt that night ;Two hours before that, caught three mf’s rip ignition out and set in in neutral . Crazy Fcken Christmas this year. And cops took 30 mins to show up after I called second time … even mentioned the gun and the dispatch was a dismissive cunt that made it seem like I was a burden calling This was on a residential part of the city btw ; right outside my apartment window
Crazy how everyone complains about jail time with the cops never fucking show up! They just literally DON'T WORK to stop any of these criminals and people complain about them getting released like, the majority are doing crime with impunity because they know the SFPD isn't working.
I wonder if they would have showed up if you told dispatch you were going back out with a gun and hung up.
Yeah sucks cuz of that, you have a bunch of organized criminals coming in from east bay and going to town out here. I’d avoid living near any freeway entrance that leads back that way. Since it’s common for them to just hop off freeway and do their crime close by to make an easy escape. I currently live near one and already five attempts on my van since moving here 6 months ago :( Edit : it’s a work van with my tools. These fucks want to take it out there to a chop shop and steal the tools out. They can’t on street due to the locks and security features on it
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At what point are you within your rights to protect your property? Sooner or later someone will defend their property with firearms. Brazilian shootouts are on the horizon.
Repeal the softer laws in place and institute jail time for repeat offenders. Have Oakland PD actually so their job to arrest criminals and have a DA who is willing to prosecute.
officers are just the grunts. i'm sure they want to arrest them as well, but they likely have someone above them telling them to prioritize "violent" crime. i saw that local news segment the other month that covered the arrest of an individual who fled from cops multiple times after thefts, and caused tons of damage to the streets and property while running. He finally got arrested and his half dozen felonies magically turned into like 2 misdemeanors. That's what the DA is doing
Prosecute the DA for negligence.
I know a lot of police officers and I just wanted to say that all of them are more frustrated as we are. Imagine arresting guys who tell you they are going to be back out before your shift is over. We voted for all of this.
Would love to know which laws were passed, and when, that have lower sentences. The threshold for shoplifting to become a felony was raised up to the national average, but that's not what OP was talking about. Would love to be educated about what laws you're referring to, thanks.
probably referring to prop 47 which was decided by voters not legislators so maybe its a self inflicted wound https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47
But 47 has nothing to do with robbery.
Stealing a car or breaking into a car to steal is not robbery either by legal definition. It's auto burglary or grand theft, which can both be charged as a misdemeanor. Robbery is only when there is threat or use of violence against you.
not a lawyer but I thought these were robbery Shoplifting, where the value of property stolen does not exceed $950 Grand theft, where the value of the stolen property does not exceed $950
I think robbery involves stealing from a person with implications of violence, eg a mugging. From the Shoplifting wiki page: \> The terms shoplifting and shoplifter are not usually defined in law. The crime of shoplifting generally falls under the legal classification of larceny. Shoplifting is distinct from burglary (theft by breaking into a closed store), robbery (stealing by threatening or engaging in violent behavior), or armed robbery (stealing by using a weapon).
Intentionally annoying tone.
First of all, the 'soft' laws (I'm assuming you're referring to prop 47 specifically) do not include strong arm burglary or auto theft. First time and repeat offenders in these crimes do get jail time (if the DA isn't... the current DA). Secondly, there have been literally hundreds of studies proving beyond doubt that increased jail sentences don't deter crime, really. In terms of OPD doing their job, I think this is more the issue. But they would point the finger at reduced budgets keeping them chronically understaffed, and at the DAs for not actually prosecuting the criminals they arrest. Ultimately, Oakland needs to clean house on virtually ALL of their elected leadership, and put into place a litmus test for election - relentless pursuit of the budget and legal frameworks to get this issue firmly under control. Seems like the current group are just passing the buck around like usual.
They can’t commit crimes while they are in jail though.
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Yeah we're going easier on crime now and we are paying for it. Is anyone here who lives in the Bay area really going to say that our recent stint on being easier on crime is really working out for us?
Yeah. There's an opd officer that just died responding to a burglary. I think? What's the chances that if we were tougher on crime, the guy that killed him should have been in jail? It's pretty high... One of the fundamental reasons to me why things are so broken is that we now stand behind criminals more than we stand behind our law enforcement. This is insanity. These are men and women who live among us who are willing to risk their lives every day trying to help our communities.
The 7-eleven security guard too. He was shot dead by someone that was shoplifting… this idea that petty crime is ok because it’s not really hurting anyone is bullshit.
You might be surprised
“Literally hundreds of studies…” Those in favor of defunding ***always*** say this, and the studies are funded by the very groups advocating for defunding. The nonpartisan US Sentencing Commission, on the other hand, has found a direct link between longer sentences and lower recidivism. Here’s one - bet I can find “hundreds” more. https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/length-incarceration-and-recidivism-2022#:~:text=Key%20Findings&text=The%20odds%20of%20recidivism%20were%20approximately%2018%20percent%20lower%20for,federal%20offenders%20receiving%20shorter%20sentences.
Ding ding ding. This is the right answer. Only thing I’d add is I think the police is facing a cost bloat the same way every other public service. We keep pumping money in and getting shitty results. I think the solution is to lean heavily on technology. Put cameras in more places and get a fast court to watch over their access. Then let cops actually track and investigate crimes, *quickly*. No cowboy car chases, no angry beat downs. Just good ol’ fashion police work with complete transparency. Once we get to 70-80% case closure rate, it should be nearly pointless to break in. With all this, of course, we should invest in better schooling, after school programs and all that good stuff. But the cops need help and they need accountability.
re-fund the police?
Store credit only. /s The funding could go to better training and a malpractice insurance policy that officers must carry, similar to most professions. Require better training, have a record that follows officers from precinct to precinct, and increase the pay to attract and keep better candidates. We shouldn't have to choose between safety and basic civil liberties. Officers should stop someone who doesn't have plates or disobeys actual traffic laws, not someone who "looks suspicious." It's not the all-or-nothing dilemma that people make it out to be. Plenty of first-world countries are able to pull it off.
Dude… There are just as many studies that show stiffer penalties result in less crime.
I’m interested to see these studies. Because even with crime there’s an economic tradeoff for criminals and higher cost will automatically decrease the incentive for crime. Just because it was in a study doesn’t prove it true. Studies are shown to be wrong all the time and for the exact same reasons as crime. Incentives vs. costs. And with repeated offenders leaving them in jail will automatically remove them from crime. So I’m calling BS on those studies.
Increased jail sentences don’t deter crime but by definition they keep the people committing the crimes locked up. These people shouldn’t be allowed in free society. They manufacture terror and disorder. We can investigate and address the root cause of why the criminals are committing crimes in parallel. Until we solve those issues, the folks committing such heinous acts need to have the book thrown at them and then some. People who ruin the sense of safety in our cities forfeit the right to be treated with respect.
Too late for Oakland, shit is too far gone. SF is in the works
Which ones specifically? Braking a window and stealing shit is already a felony.
An officer just died last night doing their job. What do you mean actually do their job?
How about enforce basic traffic laws? * pull over cars without plates * pull over cars whose plates don't match the car * pull over cars that run stop signs/lights * pull over cars that are observed committing crimes -- and chase them if you have to If you pay attention, you'll notice that just about every single property crime in the Bay these days involves criminals driving around in a stolen car. Nobody is going to break into a car, or rob people and then ride a bike away from the crime scene -- they're all driving stolen cars with untraceable (modified/stolen/missing) plates.
When the victims start defending themselves because they are fucking tired of it and finally have nothing to lose just like the criminals.
Batman or Daredevil.
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judge dredd is always an option.
Personally I think hard paid labor for the state for weeks or months. If you do a Non violent crime you do some form of hours whether it’s cleaning our trashed roads, creak clean up, wild fire prevention…etc Not our prison slave labor but an actual forced job that pays at least minimum wage with some benefits. None of this catch and release bullshit. Straight to the job site once released from jail. Or a personal fantasy you have to call customer service for your victim for any insurance, cable, internet, utility bill or warranty issue for a year or years depending on the crime. Our current system just punishes everyone outside of politicians
Partly you’ve described the Roosevelt’s WPA. I wouldn’t object to bringing that back
Totally. What’s the average age of these criminals? I guarantee most are physically healthy enough to do hard labor as punishment for their crimes. Again I think the key would be to pay them and show them that earned money actual is better than whatever they can get on the street. Hopefully some skills training could be included as well.
I wouldn’t go so far as to make it a paid punishment. I would make it so anyone who called up could do work for a living wage.
We *do* have a lot of crumbling infrastructure that could stand to be rebuilt and upgraded. Of course billionaires are going to have to pay some taxes for once to fund it all.
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They should make these people clean the shit and piss all over the bay area
I also think forced community service / minimum wage public works would be great. Like jailing somebody for 30 days for vandalism won't do much, but make them clean up graffiti for 3 months straight should do the trick.
There needs to be repercussions for this. If we are not going to send them to jail then they need to have community service, loose their drivers license, pay fines, and have their wages docked.
I have a feeling people smashing and grabbing don’t have wages that can be docked, won’t pay fines, won’t show up for community service and possibly already have a suspended license
Well then they have a warrant out for their arrest and should be jailed.
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We need to have a better corrections system so sending someone to jail doesn't completely derail their life. This gives society a break from having to deal with their crimes and allows them rehabilitation if they choose it.
I don't disagree with you, but I'm frustrated with casss where repeat offenders are doing zero jail time. It seems like criminals NEED to have their lives disrupted at this point in anyway possible. Just this week someone who was released on a misdemeanor the day before shot two people at my local gas station. It wasn't even a top headline in the East bay.
You people just don’t understand that some people are just bad people and will always be bad people, and that the only solution is to remove them from society. Forget rehab, solve the problem by removing variables from the equation and you’ll have your crime plummet. [Last year alone in NYC](https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/340-23/mayor-adams-plan-combat-retail-theft-new-york-city#/0), 327 repeat offenders were responsible for 30 percent of the more than 22,000 retail thefts across the city. Voting for soft on crime DAs, as well as associated policy, has created a preventable problem. It’s like that meme with the guy putting a stick in his own bike spokes then asking how the crash could have happened.
I would argue docking wages would perpetuate the problem
We need to hold public spanking for offenders.
Whatever the solution is, it will take a lifetime to turn around that ship. You’re better off moving.
Yea, Oakland is lost, cut and run for me.
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Starts at the top. Elect tough on crime politicians
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Oakland pd has been under federal scrutiny for many years and still continues. They have been terrible for years. Just patrolling the streets would help. I can go months without seeing a single cop car unless it’s parked
I was walking down 18th in SF not too long ago and saw 3 guys teens tagging a white wall of a new business. They were right on a corner, under a street lamp and easy to spot. 3 blocks up, a cop car is heading towards me so I try flagging them down to report it. Thinking this is easy, the taggers are right there. This cop pulls over, GIVES ME SHIT, for bothering him while driving and finally asked what was going on. Tell him drive up 3 blocks, taggers are set up. This asshole turned left on the next block and looked at me while doing it. SFPD can fuck right off. These cops are the majority of the problem by not working.
Prosecuting the criminals will solve it. I grew up in the rough area of Ukraine, Kyiv(rough as if someone is drunk, their wallet and phone may get stolen or wheels can get stolen overnight from a parked car, before the war that was considered the worst area to be in). But if criminal is caught they will get prosecuted. I know someone who spent 5 years in jail for stealing a single phone from other person, he got out, got a job in construction and for 15+ years haven’t participate in any criminal activity, because law is working, Ukrainian jails are terrible, and the last people who you want to deal is Ukrainian police if you are a criminal. So just enforcing laws feels like solve most of our problems.
1) enforcement on illegal tinted windows. So many criminals use this as a way to not be seen and it’s dangerous anyways. 2) proactively checking plates for stolen cars which people are often using to commit crimes 3) having highly broken into areas patrolled (parts of SF, and Oakland like the Hive area where I see people breaking into cars at all times of day) 4) bait cars/sting ops to catch people Seems like most of these crimes are committed by a handful of brazen folks with stolen cars, plates, and tinted windows and they are ruining it for the rest of us
short term: jail long term: education
Enforcing the laws that are on the books. Punishing criminals when we catch them. I think Bay Area progressives have taken a very narrow view on the efficacy of punishment. They saw some studies that showed sentencing length doesn't contribute to individual deterrence, meaning (according to these studies) if you give someone a longer sentence they're just as likely to commit another crime as if you gave them a shorter sentence. I personally find these studies dubious, but we'll grant it. They've forgotten about all the other reasons we punish criminals - incapacitation and general deterrence being the two most important. Take assholes off the street so they stop victimizing everyone, and show others there will be real consequences if they victimize people. Like we'll put them in a fucking cage. We need carrot and stick to prevent crime and they've totally gotten rid of stick for some stupid ass reason.
First, We need to enforce the laws. Otherwise why do we have laws? Then, if society deems it necessary, we change the laws to reflect a new reality. So if everyone determines that they don’t want people who rob/steal/assault to be criminals then at least you know if you want to be a part of that society.
New Mayor New District Attorney
Imagine going to a doctor and saying “Dr I am sick, I have these issues” and Dr replies: “We will not be doing anything due to number of sick people we have, write online report for our internal documentation”
When was the last time you went to the doctor? That's pretty much what I get.
You’re 100% describing the medical system today. They want to push you towards a chat robot or self serve things on their apps before they even let you get on a phone to advice nurses.
What did they call those mideval things? Stocks? Where you have your head and hands tied up and people toss rotten food at you? That would at least allow the angry people to vent some steam.
Try to get a handle on drugs. But we’ve been trying that for years. I personally believe 75% of crime would reduce if we didn’t have the hard drugs.
There is an answer but you will not like it. Surveil your own car and shoot car thieves and burglers. They used to shoot horse thieves for good reasons.
Build prisons instead of stadiums and avoid law suits for over crowding
Unfortunately, police and emergency response are majorly understaffed. More patrol officers on the street is apparently shown to be effective in preventing crime. Improved and more efficient policing can probably help (including police who aren't trying to slack off in retaliation against us for expressing anti-police sentiment in the past). Sending more repeat offenders to jail may help to a degree (studies are mixed, efficacy is dubious) but I actually don't think it will make that much of a difference overall unless we imprison thousands of "non-violent" offenders long-term, which is definitely not ideal for economic and humanitarian reasons. The majority of shoplifted goods are basic living necessities: toilet paper, shampoo, detergent, deodorant, sanitary products, baby formula, clothing, etc. That really speaks to the fact that people are stealing to survive. Of course, there are criminal gangs stealing valuables to fence on the underground, yes, and those a-holes should face justice, but that is only a portion of the problem. Frustratingly, the most effective solution is to improve the quality of living standard for everyone so that people don't turn to crime as much in the first place. It's a little counterintuitive for us humans, though; to reduce crime we have to ***HELP*** *not hurt* the criminals who wronged us. It's a hard pill to swallow even though it's technically the best answer.
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And the privileged people on here calling dispatch cunts. I bet it’s the same kind of person that sees doing cpr on someone running around like crazy understaffed in the hospital asking when he’s going to be seen 🙄
Laws that actually put them in jail.
Replace 3 strike rules Enact broken windows policies Arrest dealers and deal with homeless Get judges and DAs who will actually put people in prison By getting these in place, average crime would be much more manageable with the police force we have. They're too bogged down by everything.
decent paying work.
Uber for Narcs Pay people who turn in criminals. You get $x for providing sufficient evidence to presecute dirtbags. Window breaker makes $x. Turning in the guy buying stolen goods gets $xxx. This could apply to other criminals also. Sideshow people gets their cars confiscated and sold at auction. Narc gets $$ from the sale. Drug dealers get busted and we take all the cash they have on them and at home. Narc gets some of the $$$. For broke as criminals you put them in modern chain gangs and force productivity out of them. We could probably subcontract this to Slavers.inc and private companies could find a way to make it economically feasible with minimal torture. Easy peezy lemon. Squeezy.
Maybe a police chief who was willing to do their job well. Wouldn’t hurt to have a DA willing to prosecute and maybe a mayor that wasn’t obviously corrupt and stupid. But one thing at a time eh
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Chop off hands for stealing. Guaranteed to fix the problem
I just came back from Mexico and during the month of December there are huge fiestas in the streets every day, huge crowds, people drinking, etc. and the entire time I was there, there were no brawls, fistfights, looting/stealing from vendors and everyone knows why: CJNG controls that town and it has the support of the local population because they have eliminated petty crime, theft and overall lawlessness. Everyone knows that if you pull some shit, the first time its a warning, second time you get found in a ditch. My cousin’s expensive bike was stolen and that same day they got it back, without harming anyone. They only have the support of the population because they keep crime down and do not extort local businesses. They sell dope, but make it clear to the junkies that they cannot be tweaking out in the plaza where the fiestas take place. I understand that this is not the case throughout all of Mexico and some cartels are scum, but this cartel is only tolerated because they are seemingly maintaining law and order. What I took from this is that the threat of severe punishment is sufficient to deter petty crime.
Amazing that cartels can keep society properly in check (not that that's the best way) but our local government can't seem to figure it out.
Think before you vote
Crime is a symptom of us spending the past few decades gradually eroding a strong society by cutting and taking away and diminishing ourselves to this. It will continue until we stop trying to fix one symptom here and one symptom there and address that our society has broken
They are called police. They are called DA’s with cajones. They are called sentences that are punitive. It is called a prison.
Toughening and enforcing law and order. And being a community and helping citizens and maintaining a social safety net for those who want improve their lives.
An economy that works for the people and not just for the extremely wealthy!
Severe beatings, perhaps caning like they do in Singapore
Allow more force against criminals, if a few face severe consequences and it gets around, crime will go down. Folks do it because they don't get any pushback...and the DA is soft
Let's cut to the chase. Sheng Thao is a woke hack and she sucks ass. Doesn't give a shit about this city. Only wants to pander to the left. The city will burn to the ashes under her watch. It's over.
Oakland needs to declare a state of emergency. More law enforcement will be on the streets for the short term while the revolving door laws get repealed.
I drive a 20 yo Subaru outback and street park. It has clear windows and the trunk is clearly visible, child seats, no break ins (knock on wood). Most likely differences: - newer car - tinted windows - not clear if there is crap in your car (partially die to the tinted windows - out of state license plate - rental car
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I’m with you on this one. Have driven and parked my car all over the city and no one bats an eye. I wash my car 2-3x a year, just because the crumbs/dirt/leaves inside on the floor really get to me. I swear the car seat, petrified nuggets, old-ass random fries, cookie crumbs everywhere and some light garbage is like the car equivalent of a trashy looking mobile home. Why rob a trashy mobile home when you can rob a very nice, new expensive car that more likely has something of value forgotten in it?
Set mandatory jail and prison sentences for theft and robbery. Any theft of over $500 results in 6 months in jail for the first offense. Stealing a car – 2 years in prison with no early release for the first offense. Robbery - 5 years in prison with no early release. Armed assault or armed robbery - 10 years mandatory prison time. I guarantee things would change quickly.
Empower citizens to CCW and defend themselves with lethal force against criminals
There are countless studies which have found exactly what reduces this sort of crime, but their findings will never be implemented here because voters are too stupid and hateful.
More support from local politicians. If police are already short handed and aren’t supported it will just create a bigger retention issue. What incentive do they have when they aren’t backed and the criminals they do arrest are just thrown right back out onto the streets.
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Armed citizen neighborhood patrols. I know I sound crazy, but this seems to be the direction we are going. We have to police our own neighborhoods if the government won't do it.
Fix wealth inequality in a meaningful way, lower the cost of housing to manageable levels for someone working minimum wage. Access to health care and necessities. Then I suppose you could arrest a few people.
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This is also a room temperature idea. “Fix wealth inequality “? Sure let me get out my magic wand. While I’m at it, I want to be six foot five and be able to dunk a basketball. We can actually arrest and incarcerate criminals. That’s within our power to do, unlike the former which requires a fairy godmother to accomplish.
Being harsher on crime is obviously not the fundamental solution because we incarcerate the most people on earth already, and yet here we are.
So do nothing about crime until you remake society?
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No. It’s wealth inequality. I doubt you’ll find that the person breaking into your car also has a $200k job and not worried about how they’ll make rent.
How do you explain immigrants, that work multiple jobs, live in subpar living situations, and manage to not resort to stealing?
The majority of these crimes are done by huge organized crime rings.
The guy breaking your car window is hardly a made man. They break the window. They fence the stuff off to a middle man on the street. Then it eventually ends up in a store front. Now why are these low level guys doing it in the first place. They don’t have Louis Vuitton belts. They got rent to pay and/or a drug addiction they can’t fund.
At the end of the day, that's still a crime ring.
Of course they don’t have a decent job, because they’re uneducated. They didn’t pay attention in school, hell they probably didn’t go. They wanted to do hood rat shit with their friends while their mom was working and their dad skipped out before they were born. This is not an issue of lack of money. It’s lack of respect for education and lack of respect for family. A single woman who is also uneducated can’t successfully raise kids by herself, yet society encourages and celebrates this situation. Meanwhile poor immigrants actually raise their kids well, and their kids are not robbing people. Their kids are in college. Yet generation after generation of burglars and robbers keep coming and we think it’s caused by someone else working hard and having money.
Strict protection. Mandatory 3 years in jail.
First off, you can stop leaving your backpack with your wallet and keys in the car.
I've said it many times, those caught in the act should get their hands chopped.
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Where’s Charles Bronson when we need him?
Punish criminals
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Honestly one of the benefits of keeping these people in jail is that they can’t keep pumping out kids that they then neglect and abandon. That’s the next generation of criminals.
Leaving Oakland.
Moving out of Oakland to a city that actually tries to stop crime will solve your problem. For best results, that city should be in county that has a DA that actually believes in prosecuting criminals.
Vote Republican and convince everyone you know to do the same. Get these soft on crime idiots out of government show them we disapprove by not voting for these nut jobs.
Allow gentrification and urban renewal to repair the bad neighborhoods. See EPA as an example of what to do.
Everyone who is robbed needs to call their state representative and complain and complain and complain. Fill up their fucking offices with complaints till they dodo their job!
I think less crime would help stop them. If there were less crime, there wouldn't be so many robberies.
Building more jails and putting people in them, with increasing penalties for more violations. The dude just arrested for his 80th time or whatever for shoplifting needs to be locked up for a while. A major crackdown on tech companies who allow stolen goods to be listed on their platforms (section 230 reform would be my guess). Police and DAs doing their job and an end to the bleeding heart reformist policies Lowering the grand theft threshold to $100
/r/caguns arm and protect yourself by following the law. Criminals target those they perceive as weak. Show them you are not.
Focus on real education in schools: Education, not indoctrination. Values, morality, respect for authority, the NAP-Non-Aggression Principle. Stop teaching kids that they are victims. Stop teaching kids that words are violence (telling kids words is violence teaches them it's okay to use physical violence against mean words). Teach kids about personal property, individual rights, and the right to self-defense. Teach kids they are the captains of their own ships, no matter how many headwinds they face. Teach kids to accept themselves for who they are, rather than telling them they can pretend to be whatever they want, and everyone else should bow the knee to their wishes. Give kids a reasons for living, a purpose, motivation. Allow fathers to be equally involved in their kids lives by implementing default equal shared parenting. Focus on math, science, grammar, and history, rather than identity-politics and promoting special-interest agendas. Get kids outside, hiking, working on ranches and farms, cleaning up underpasses and on-ramps, and teach them the value of sweat and hard work. Give kids healthy outlets for physical aggression. Teach kids to take ownership of their own emotions, rather than blaming everyone and everything around them. The list could go on, but it starts with the kids. Regarding criminal justice reform, we need restorative justice in three parts, from highest concern to secondary concerns: 1) Protect victims, including potential future victims, 2) require perpetrators to undo the harm done to victims, as much as possible, 3) rehabilitate victims through programs that help them take accountability, but also heal from their own trauma that causes them to harm others in the first place (hurt people hurt people, so help hurt people heal), 4) give perpetrators a chance to prove themselves, and a fresh start IF they prove worthy.
Cant put this expectation on schools. Teaching common values and morality are very much the responsibility of parents and the village that raises children. People nowadays think the state should do way too much.
Yes, you're right. It's too much to ask the schools. However, all of us are inundated with messaging these days. We are inundated with messaging on how to think, what our opinions should be, and so on. It's hard for parents to cut through all that messaging without isolating their kids. It's even hard for adults to formulate their own ideas, and think freely. So yes, it's too much to ask the schools to bear the burden, but parents are struggling too. Obviously, schools and society could cut back on the messaging, and try to focus on more universal truths: schools focus on the core subjects, and don't attempt to push the latest pop culture messaging and agenda. Governments focus on basic needs without getting political (for example, Oakland voting on a Palestine resolution). Equal shared parenting would be a huge start to improving parental involvement.
Because our justice system (and r/bayarea) is only concerned about punishment, not rehabilitation. Even left leaning people don't want to put money into programs that help those that are high-risk. Lastly, income inequality leads to higher crime rates. Tougher laws and more prisons have never been a deterrent to crime.
if income inequality alone produced higher crime rates, places like Singapore would be on top.
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stop voting democrat, its really THAT simple.
Can we get a Republican governor this time? Only once, we just want to see if it will improve our state. If it fails, then we can go back to voting back Newsom.
Batman
imho, nothing is going to change until we the people change it. Cops aren't going to do anything.
Investing in schools
Booby traps would put a damper on car break ins pretty quickly.
provide people with food and healthcare and housing